Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E349: From Childhood Trauma to Hope: Chris Milson on Suicide, Boundaries & Healing Your Mental Health

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E349: From Childhood Trauma to Hope: Chris Milson on Suicide, Boundaries & Healing Your Mental Health · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:02
  Well, hello everybody, and welcome back to Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:05
  Today we have with us Chris Milson.
• 0:08
  He is the host of the mental health movement podcast, Voice for the Voiceless.
• 0:12
  So I did just get a chance to listen to one of your episodes that you did on another podcast, and woo, do you have a story.
• 0:20
  Thank you for having me, Tammy.
• 0:21
  Yeah, as we all do.
• 0:22
  But welcome, Chris.
• 0:23
  How are you?
• 0:25
  Good.
• 0:25
  How are you?
• 0:26
  I am doing great.
• 0:27
  So we're gonna jump right in.
• 0:29
  We're just gonna talk about all things., I said, I listened to Chris' episode that he did on another podcast, and it sounds like so many people that I deal with, we kinda live these, parallel lives.
• 0:39
  We have not the exact same situation, because it's never the same, but the, after effects are the same.
• 0:46
  So, we're gonna jump in and talk about a lot of that.
• 0:49
  And, I'm just happy that you're here, and I'm happy that you started that podcast, because I 100% agree that so many people don't know they have a voice, or they don't know how to use it, or they're ashamed
• 1:01
  to use it.
• 1:02
  And what a message that you have a voice, so use it, no matter what your story was.
• 1:08
  So go ahead and tell us just a quick version, the shortened version, because we're gonna go throughout all of your stories as we're talking.
• 1:14
  Yeah.
• 1:14
  But, what led you to start that podcast?
• 1:18
  I think it just kinda goes back to, 14-year-old me, after my first attempt, and then I had a second attempt at 27.
• 1:25
  And just being at a point in my life of, having that stigma as a man of not sharing your feelings, not being encouraged to tell your story or just tell what you're feeling at that time.
• 1:36
  And I think around the time that I lost my brother, is when I really decided to commit to the podcast, because he helped me find my voice.
• 1:46
  And essentially the name is based off of his and I's relationship of, he helped me find my voice, and when he passed away I wanted to carry on what he passed on to me and be that voice for
• 2:00
  the voiceless.
• 2:01
  And it has allowed me to meet so many incredible people, and be able to share that light that I've been able to, build within myself, to others that find themself in darkness.
• 2:16
  Perfect.
• 2:16
  And I love the name, The Voice for the Voiceless.
• 2:18
  And I said, it caught my attention absolutely immediately when I saw all the stuff you did.
• 2:22
  So you talked about two attempts, and one was when you were 14, one when you were 27.
• 2:29
  Leading up to the first one, I've met people that have had attempts and had several attempts that haven't had this, really traumatic childhood even.
• 2:37
  It just, they always had this feeling of darkness, honestly.
• 2:42
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  Did you have things leading up to it?
• 2:44
  Were there circumstances that caused you to be in that dark place, or was it just, I don't wanna say how you were born and how you were wired, because I hate to ever even use those words, but some
• 2:55
  people, it takes more to spark that inner spark.
• 2:59
  Yeah.
• 3:00
  so I grew up, in a broken home.
• 3:01
  my, parents got divorced when I was eight years old, so I was at the age of really understanding, Mom and Dad aren't together anymore, and maybe it's perhaps my fault, and that manifested into my early teenage years of
• 3:15
  constantly moving around, parents constantly fighting, me trying to, discover my identity and everything, and just, I felt invisible.
• 3:24
  growing up with two other siblings who a parent had a favorite, and I was just there 'cause I was the oldest.
• 3:30
  And I wanted to be seen and I wanted to be heard.
• 3:34
  And unfortunately, mix that with the darkness that I had, in my heart at the time, it was, I had the means, I had the plan in school, and my thought process was what better way, and I don't wanna
• 3:49
  glorify me attempting, but what better way to be seen and heard than to do it in front of classmates, regardless if it was in a negative light, essentially.
• 3:58
  Right.
• 3:59
  And so obviously it was unsuccessful.
• 4:01
  Did you go after that, did you start immediately, did your parents give you the support to get you immediately into some pretty intensive therapy then at that age?
• 4:11
  Not at all.
• 4:11
  I had a fellow classmate who kind of caught wind of the attempt, and, contacted the resource officer who before my attempt tackled me to the ground, and I was Baker Acted into a, a psych ward.
• 4:26
  I did outpatient therapy for about three weeks 'cause, I don't know, I think just at that time mental health resources weren't what they are now, and they paired me with a, a gambling, addiction therapist.
• 4:40
  14 years old- Oh and that was the therapist they paired me with.
• 4:45
  And honestly- That doesn't sound very sensible.
• 4:48
  Yeah.
• 4:48
  Sorry.
• 4:49
  And I couldn't tell you one helpful lesson that person gave me.
• 4:53
  And not to any fault of hers, 'cause I'm sure that was just the weird programs back then, but it was my first impression of therapy, and it was a very negative one.
• 5:04
  Yeah.
• 5:04
  And understandably, because you're going in there with these deep, dark, deep, deep hard to heal and things that need to be processed, ne- need to be dealt with.
• 5:15
  you were saying, identity- crises and all this other stuff and they're they're dealing with addiction, literally Right And it's two totally different...
• 5:24
  obviously addiction feeds into the deep dark and all that other stuff, but yeah, two totally different areas of- Yeah expertise, for sure.
• 5:35
  So what did you do then to get yourself through to another 13 year?
• 5:40
  What played out?
• 5:41
  What was your thought process?
• 5:42
  How were you keeping yourself even positive enough to keep going?
• 5:46
  So after 14, going into my sophomore year, just really started isolating myself from the world and just trying to find ways to, I guess, harness the darkness to where it wouldn't get that out of control again.
• 6:00
  So I, dove myself into music, really deep into music, and it helped me get through some of the worst times because, 15...
• 6:11
  So sophomore year I went to three different high schools within a span of a year.
• 6:16
  And again, due to instability at home, mom going through several relationships and several different homes, it was three different high schools within, six to eight months, and it was horrible.
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:29
  and I, I didn't really know what to do outside of coping mechanisms that I more or less taught myself.
• 6:36
  It was writing.
• 6:37
  It was music.
• 6:38
  And just numbed myself, without any substances, for that 13 years spanning to 27.
• 6:47
  I mean, as soon as I was old enough to work, that's, that's all I did, just work, come home, work, come home, and didn't really cater to any of my mental health struggles that I was having.
• 6:58
  Hmm.
• 6:59
  So you just basically dissociated and numbed and dysfunctioned.
• 7:02
  Yeah.
• 7:02
  You just showed up in the world.
• 7:04
  I can resonate with that.
• 7:05
  So many people resonate with that.
• 7:07
  But kudos to you and proud of you for, s- the survival instinct kicks in, and you did it in a very intelligent way.
• 7:15
  the music was, very healing.
• 7:17
  I work a lot with people with sound therapy and frequency therapy and everything else, and just that, just the fact that you turn to that instead of something more damaging- Mm-hmm is positive in itself.
• 7:30
  Yeah.
• 7:31
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:33
  And then so you progressed on.
• 7:34
  I mean, I- that's a long time to, to be stuck in this place with no support.
• 7:39
  Did you have any support at home?
• 7:40
  No, obviously not.
• 7:41
  You couldn't tell- Yeah, not at all your parents what was going on.
• 7:46
  Mm-mm.
• 7:46
  Did your parents, or your mom I guess, because it was an unstable figure, father figure coming in and out pro- you said.
• 7:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:51
  But did your mom even know about the first attempt?
• 7:54
  I mean, she had to.
• 7:55
  So, so she did, and, she sent me away to a family friend and said she couldn't put up with me anymore.
• 8:02
  I self-harmed a lot when I was 14, and after the attempt, I just remember, I had a self-harming incident and my mom walked in on me doing it, and she said, "I can't put up with you anymore," and
• 8:14
  she sent me away for three months.
• 8:16
  No contact at all.
• 8:17
  Didn't check to see if I was okay or alive, just sent me away.
• 8:21
  And I'll never forget that, 'cause it's, just kind of a reflection of our relationship, and she was, a big addict as well, so that didn't help things either.
• 8:33
  the support wasn't really there throughout most of my life.
• 8:37
  I think when I really started noticing how bad my mental health was was 2016, I wanna say.
• 8:46
  I tried doing wrestling in school.
• 8:48
  I'm a really big wrestling fan.
• 8:50
  I grew up, I've been watching it since I was seven years old, and I saw that there was a school fairly close to me, and I wanted to try, try to do it, try to get in the business
• 9:00
  and do what my passion was telling me to do.
• 9:03
  And I couldn't take a coach yelling in my face for doing things wrong.
• 9:08
  I would shut down.
• 9:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:09
  And I remember one specific incident where they were trying to teach us holds or something like that, and I wasn't piecing things together, and, this guy's a 20-year vet, so he expects people to be on point for everything
• 9:24
  they're doing.
• 9:25
  And I was getting the beginning, kind of skipped to the end, and just didn't get the stuff in the middle right, and he started screaming at me.
• 9:32
  And I remember putting my head down and just leaving the ring.
• 9:35
  He's "Don't shut down, don't shut down," and I just didn't even respond.
• 9:40
  And that was, just kind of going back to no support.
• 9:45
  I tore my shoulder in school, and the first thing my dad says I, was, "I told you so."
• 9:50
  didn't have any belief in me chasing my passion.
• 9:53
  he just said, "I told you it was gonna happen," and that was that.
• 9:58
  Wow.
• 9:59
  And it doesn't help that, yeah, 'cause you need, they say, and really statistics show, that when kids are going through a tough time at home, they only need one support person.
• 10:08
  One support person can h- make the difference between thriving and completely not.
• 10:14
  Right.
• 10:14
  And, you would have liked to think that would be your coach, who would see...
• 10:18
  I mean, if he's yelling, "Don't shut down," he knows what you're doing.
• 10:22
  He knows what you're going through.
• 10:24
  If he's yelling that, he, he up here knew, logically.
• 10:28
  Yeah.
• 10:28
  And that would have been a good time for him to have taken you under his wing and been "Okay, this kid's struggling."
• 10:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:36
  But yeah, no, I can totally get that.
• 10:38
  I can remember that too.
• 10:39
  I was a big shut-down, and I was, when I became a teacher, that was very easy for me to see the children that you could tell got yelled at a lot at home.
• 10:47
  Yeah.
• 10:47
  Because if anybody would even raise their voice, it was, instant body change.
• 10:54
  Right.
• 10:55
  Backing up, closing their eyes, looking down.
• 10:58
  But it's, and I can r- I can just remember saying you can't y- some kids you just can't yell.
• 11:02
  You can't yell at kids like that because some of them- I was a big flincher.
• 11:06
  Oh, yeah.
• 11:07
  Okay.
• 11:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:09
  And I, that, that didn't stop until a couple years ago.
• 11:13
  I don't know why.
• 11:14
  It would, it's been something that I've always struggled with.
• 11:18
  somebody would lift their hand and I would just, go like that, and I'm just so used to my mom would break stuff over my head when I was a kid, It was violent.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:26
  She was very violent.
• 11:28
  And, That just kind of bled over into my adulthood and didn't really stop until maybe about three years ago.
• 11:35
  Mm.
• 11:36
  So did you go through, with all of your therapies and everything that you've done, what do you think was the most successful part of therapy?
• 11:42
  did you go through EMDR?
• 11:44
  Talk about all of your different processes that you did.
• 11:47
  So the very first experience I had with therapy was after my second attempt.
• 11:52
  I knew I needed to get help for myself, and I finally got to that point where it's okay, I need to address all these things that are going in through my head because it was, a darker time than
• 12:03
  when I was at 14.
• 12:04
  It was, "I'm really gonna do this, and I'm just fed up of putting up with all the things I'm putting up with."
• 12:12
  And after I started the second, s- my first therapist in New Jersey when I was living up there, first two sessions I cried for two hours straight.
• 12:21
  didn't say two words, just couldn't look at her in the face.
• 12:25
  And, I, I was a mess.
• 12:27
  And I think that's just what I wanted.
• 12:28
  I wanted somebody to, to listen, somebody to, to see all that pain that I was feeling and just was never able to express.
• 12:36
  And she gave me the ability to, tell my mom, "I don't wanna do this anymore, and we need to be completely apart."
• 12:47
  fast-forwarding to the therapist that I have now down here in Florida, the greatest thing that she's taught me was boundaries.
• 12:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:54
  I was never taught what boundaries were.
• 12:57
  I didn't know how to firmly set them down without it being an aggressive conversation.
• 13:04
  And it has allowed me to communicate with my mother and father in different ways that I never thought were possible, because they don't talk to me like a respectful person sometimes.
• 13:18
  They don't appreciate, my perspective on how I lived my life.
• 13:24
  And I think my dad has finally gotten to the point where he knows he can't push anymore, and my mom just, she knows that she can't cross that line anymore.
• 13:36
  Well, yeah, and when you're a child and their, your boundaries are...
• 13:39
  Even when you try to set them and they are so blatantly violated, you learn that it's not even worth it.
• 13:44
  you get conditioned- Yeah to think it's not even worth it.
• 13:47
  So until someone builds you back up, which it sounds like your therapist did, enough to say basically, "Hey, Chris, you're a grown-ass man now, and you don't have to tolerate any of that."
• 13:57
  Exactly.
• 13:58
  And I know I heard my whole life, "How can you say that about your mother?
• 14:01
  She's your mother.
• 14:02
  How can you say you hate her?
• 14:04
  She's your mother."
• 14:04
  And I was "How can she pimp me out to her drug dealer?
• 14:07
  She's my mother."
• 14:08
  But nobody ever looked at that side of it.
• 14:10
  And it was, I didn't have, I never had the opportunity to actually set my own boundaries with my mother because she passed when I was 17.
• 14:22
  But, yeah, it would've been so kinda liberating to just be what?
• 14:26
  I don't deserve this.
• 14:27
  You can't talk to me this way.
• 14:28
  I'm a grown-ass adult."
• 14:30
  Right.
• 14:31
  I don't care what you said.
• 14:31
  so how freeing just to be able to set those boundaries.
• 14:34
  But for the people out there listening, and I caution you too, if you've never set them, if you've never understood what a boundary is or, like I said, you've, they've been so blatantly violated your whole life, you've never
• 14:45
  really honored them or learned how to, start small.
• 14:50
  Start very small.
• 14:52
  If you've been fighting with your mom and you're, 40 years old and you've been fighting with your mom about the same thing and whatever it is for 40 years, don't let that be your first boundary.
• 15:02
  I tell people, baby steps.
• 15:04
  I, do, do you remember your first boundary that you ever set with anybody?
• 15:08
  My very first boundary was, telling somebody that I didn't want to go somewhere with them because it had a person I didn't and it was a weird conversation 'cause they're "Oh, just ignore him.
• 15:20
  Just ignore him."
• 15:20
  I'm "Nah, man," "I don't want them part of my life or in my circle, so I don't wanna be, I don't wanna be in that environment."
• 15:27
  Right.
• 15:27
  And they didn't take too well to it, but, a boundary is a boundary.
• 15:31
  You respect mine, I respect yours.
• 15:33
  Exactly, and a boundary, again, for those people listening, a boundary is not to punish the other person.
• 15:38
  A boundary is p- to protect your own mental wellbeing.
• 15:41
  Exactly.
• 15:42
  So I remember my first one because I was so used to people yelling at me, talking down to me, everything else, and I remember my best friend said to me one day, and it was my husband talking to
• 15:51
  me, and she said, "Do when you love someone, you don't talk to them that way, and you do not have to let him talk to you that way?"
• 15:59
  And I remember thinking, "Oh," I, first of all, I didn't even realize it becau- that it was that offensive because I was so used to it, and it was just that typical degrading, pick on you kinda talk.
• 16:09
  But I remember, I remember turning around the first time and I was "You are not good enough to talk to me that way.
• 16:13
  I don't deserve that."
• 16:15
  And literally he, backed up and he was "I'm so sorry.
• 16:17
  I didn't even realize."
• 16:19
  But it was funny when you do that very first one, it was an okay thing.
• 16:23
  So it was your chest gets a little bigger and you poof out a little more and you gain a little more confidence, and you're "Yeah, I got this."
• 16:30
  But for the people that are not ready to tackle that, and I totally respect that- Start small.
• 16:37
  Go into a restaurant, order something that's not on the menu.
• 16:40
  That's my go-to for everybody.
• 16:42
  Because what's the worst thing that can happen is they can say no.
• 16:45
  Right.
• 16:46
  Right.
• 16:47
  I mean, you gonna die from that, Chris, if they say no- you can't have an enchilada when we don't have an enchilada on the menu?
• 16:53
  Right.
• 16:54
  No.
• 16:55
  So everything to me is baby steps in this whole healing process, because you tackled for years and years and years some big, big concepts, and then you- Mm-hmm they follow you into adulthood, as we all know, and that's
• 17:10
  what we're unraveling here.
• 17:12
  So there's a, it's a process.
• 17:14
  And I, I think, the heaviest conversation I've had with my mom was actually recently.
• 17:19
  she asked me, she's I love you, right?"
• 17:21
  And I said, "That's a loaded question, Mom."
• 17:23
  I, I said, I don't wanna say this to hurt your feelings or anything, but you can't just cause as much shit as you've caused and just sprinkle the words 'I love you' on it and think that everything's gonna
• 17:33
  be okay."
• 17:34
  I said, "Your relationship with me, Cameron, and Caleb, my brother and sister, are a result of things that you have done.
• 17:43
  E- parents who love their kids don't do what you've done to us.
• 17:48
  You might think that it's out of love, but none of us feel those three words."
• 17:53
  I hated the words "I love you" for so long, Tammy.
• 17:57
  Yeah.
• 17:57
  I didn't say it to anybody, whether it was friends, whether it was extended family.
• 18:03
  I never said it because of her.
• 18:05
  And my brother, before he was taken away, he would always say, "I love you" before we were, before I went home.
• 18:12
  He's "Yo, I love you, bro," and I'm "Oh, yeah.
• 18:14
  Thanks, man.
• 18:15
  Thanks, man."
• 18:15
  And then it got comfortable to the point of saying I love you to him, and it has passed to my siblings now, and, I always make sure to say it to both my little brother and little sister because,
• 18:30
  Santi taught me that.
• 18:32
  Right.
• 18:34
  Yeah, and that's, that's a hard thing.
• 18:35
  And a lot of ti- I, I mean, I get it, though.
• 18:37
  It's empty words.
• 18:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:39
  it's I tell people even when they're dealing with their children, when you're angry with them, never say, "I love you, but..."
• 18:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:46
  Because, it's don't, don't do that because it, it just, you said, it sprinkles that feeling of no you don't, clearly, 'cause you just said, "but."
• 18:54
  it's conditional.
• 18:56
  Exactly.
• 18:56
  I love you if you do this, and I love you if you do that.
• 18:59
  And a lot of it, too, let me ask you, 'cause I know a lot of my therapy and a lot of my healing was being able after a while to even to receive that love.
• 19:11
  Yeah.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:13
  And, I think, Loving yourself, I think, is one of the hardest things too, because you've been told all your life that you weren't worth something, or you believe those words that your abuser or your parent or whoever it
• 19:26
  was, it could be both of the same person, told you that you weren't worth anything.
• 19:31
  And I think the, the biggest step for me in therapy was telling myself that I loved myself.
• 19:38
  And, a lot of the self-destruction over the years because of my relationship with myself and my parents just kind of manifested into I wouldn't say darkness, just kind of, negative thoughts about myself, and finally being able to say
• 19:56
  those three words to myself, and receiving that love, and doing things for myself that I can express those words I think have been, not only the most liberating thing, but also the hardest journey too.
• 20:10
  Right.
• 20:11
  Let me ask you, did you ever do any kind of somatic work?
• 20:16
  what?
• 20:16
  with your body, somatic- Mm-mm healing kind of thing?
• 20:20
  No.
• 20:21
  'Cause, and that's why I asked, so your primary way to heal was your psychotherapy, your talk therapy.
• 20:27
  Right, exactly.
• 20:28
  And it's funny because with me it was just the opposite.
• 20:31
  Not that it didn't work, and I love- I still go to a therapist, don't get me wrong, and I love it.
• 20:36
  But it was me, you said, you can't take that in because it's your nervous system.
• 20:42
  It's the PTS.
• 20:43
  I mean, you have severe PTSD that you are healing from, that's why.
• 20:47
  And it's all sensory-based.
• 20:49
  That's why you said- Yeah somebody'll say something or look the wrong way or...
• 20:53
  To me it was smells.
• 20:54
  smells get me.
• 20:55
  Mm.
• 20:56
  And so I had to do a lot of body work, a lot of somatic getting it out of your body, because I feel...
• 21:02
  You ever read the book The Body Keeps Score?
• 21:04
  Mm-mm.
• 21:05
  Oh, my gosh, read that book and you will be "Wow."
• 21:07
  I mean, it's like a game changer.
• 21:10
  It's about how...
• 21:11
  And it's all about trauma, and it can be childhood trauma, it can be going to war, it can be any kind of trauma, and how if it's unprocessed, which everything that you dealt with was, it gets stored in
• 21:22
  your body, in every single cell in your body.
• 21:24
  Okay.
• 21:25
  So even though, I tell people, feeling something in your body, like say, okay, let's just say now hypothetically you've gone, "Okay, I forgive my mom."
• 21:35
  I'm just being hypothetical here.
• 21:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:38
  And you go, "Okay, I've forgiven her," or, "I've forgiven my friend that stole $7,000 from me, okay?
• 21:43
  And I've forgiven him, and I'm over it."
• 21:45
  Logically you're over it, everything's good.
• 21:47
  You've done all the affirmations, you've talked, you've EFT tapped, you've done all the stuff, right?
• 21:52
  And then all of a sudden you see them and your whole body clenches.
• 21:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:56
  That is your signal, and I always say the universe's signal, that nope, not quite over that one yet.
• 22:02
  Yeah.
• 22:03
  So I tell people, and I don't know if you've ever done this, if you wake up in the morning and do a body check.
• 22:09
  And then you can kind of feel where the tension lies.
• 22:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:13
  And then you can think into that or breathe into that or, you, you're, you're, you've never done somatic work, so it's a whole new concept.
• 22:21
  But, it's really interesting for people.
• 22:23
  Because I, I, I had to do it.
• 22:26
  I had to get in my body.
• 22:27
  dogs when they have a fight, they, what do they do?
• 22:29
  They shake and they wiggle and they wah-wah-wah-wah, and they- Yeah beat it out of their nervous system.
• 22:34
  do you ever, I don't know.
• 22:35
  This is...
• 22:35
  I was just curious.
• 22:37
  I always ask people.
• 22:37
  For, for me, I feel any time that I'm feeling, any intense emotion like anger or sadness or even grief, I, I'm really big with, breathing work, I, I think, grounding myself has helped me tremendously, over the last year,
• 22:53
  especially 'cause in February, I lost my grandfather and I spoke at his funeral.
• 22:58
  Sorry.
• 22:59
  And...
• 23:00
  Thank you.
• 23:00
  before I started speaking, I'm sitting there hyperventilating, I don't know what I'm gonna say, and just raw emotion.
• 23:06
  And before I grabbed the microphone, I just took a really deep breath and, I was the only person who spoke at his funeral that made everybody laugh.
• 23:17
  And I, I took great pride in that because, grief is something, a- another emotion that we're not taught how to channel when we're growing up.
• 23:26
  And that's one thing that therapy has helped me tremendously is, is grief.
• 23:31
  Because I grew up in a family that doesn't talk about family deaths.
• 23:36
  I don't, I don't remember anybody passing away as a kid that was talked about or celebrated or, just mentioned after they passed away.
• 23:46
  Hmm.
• 23:46
  And when I lost one of my really good friends in 2020, during COVID when we couldn't see our loved ones, she was by herself in the hospital before she passed.
• 23:56
  Hmm.
• 23:56
  And I remember how my heart felt, and I think that was my first, that was the year I started the therapist I have now.
• 24:06
  So I've been with her about six years now.
• 24:08
  And the day I started therapy with her, another friend passed away.
• 24:14
  And- I just remember saying to her, obviously COVID was really bad for everybody, and I didn't know how to deal with grief.
• 24:24
  Funny enough, there is a show called Robot Chicken that I grew up with.
• 24:29
  basically it's a bunch of claymations that do a bunch of bits.
• 24:33
  And I specifically remember, something that was shown to us in high school in psychology class on grief.
• 24:40
  It was a giraffe that fell into quicksand that went through all five stages of grief, and that's how I got through two deaths before I started therapy.
• 24:51
  And it's crazy with little tools that will just kinda bury itself in the back of your head until you're ready to use it.
• 25:00
  And grief is something I'm very big on talking about.
• 25:05
  you don't just say, "They passed away," and just leave it.
• 25:07
  I refuse to be that way.
• 25:09
  I, I wanna celebrate that person's memory and keep their memory alive.
• 25:15
  My...
• 25:15
  One of my very best friends is actually a grief, grief coach, and she's a widow.
• 25:20
  And so she coaches, she has The Positive Widow is her brand.
• 25:25
  But it's amazing how so many of the things that we do and we talk about intercept.
• 25:30
  So, we can go on stage and talk together because even...
• 25:33
  a lot of people think grief is just some- losing someone, period.
• 25:38
  And I'm no, as you grew up, like you being an adult child of dysfunction, you had to g- you're still probably grieving your lost childhood.
• 25:45
  You're grieving the parents you never had.
• 25:48
  You, you're gri- when you grow up with an addict, you've got anticipatory grief where you never know one day from the next if they're gonna be breathing, and you're grieving that your whole life.
• 25:56
  So a lot of people, if you, a lot of people will come to me and we'll be talking, and I'll literally say to them, "You're grieving."
• 26:05
  And they're "No, I didn't lose anybody."
• 26:06
  I'm "You don't have to lose somebody."
• 26:09
  you don't have to have somebody pass away.
• 26:11
  That is not the only reason we grieve.
• 26:12
  There's a thousand different reasons we grieve.
• 26:15
  But you're right, it's every step, there's the five steps, and you kinda work through each one in your own pace.
• 26:21
  And, even you, you've had several losses even just recently.
• 26:25
  And I did a talk one time on, the 10 things to say to people or not say to people when they're grieving.
• 26:33
  'Cause how many times did you hear, "Oh, it's been a year.
• 26:36
  Get over it"?
• 26:37
  Yep.
• 26:37
  Or, it's, "They're in a better place," or- Ugh "They're not suffering anymore."
• 26:42
  And every time I hear any of those things, my immediate response is, "That doesn't make me feel any better."
• 26:49
  No.
• 26:49
  but I, I can appreciate people taking- I guess effort, I'll put that in quotations, effort to try and make me feel better.
• 27:00
  and, and I just feel sometimes I just don't talk about, the losses or how I feel about certain losses to anybody outside of my therapist because, the therapist isn't, isn't a friend, quote, unquote.
• 27:12
  I mean, they, they can be a friend, but you, you get what I mean on that when I say that part.
• 27:16
  Yeah.
• 27:17
  but they're not giving you the same advice or the same safe space that a friend outside of therapy would give you.
• 27:25
  Right.
• 27:26
  And, and you can do, it's kind of I had a friend that went is just going, is going through cancer right now, and you can say, you can have all the good intentions in the world, but you can
• 27:36
  say things that are very harmful.
• 27:38
  And you don't mean to- Yeah because you're trying to be a friend.
• 27:40
  So that's why I feel people that are going through things, kind of you with, a loss, you're better off not saying anything than setting yourself up for failure.
• 27:48
  Exactly.
• 27:49
  But that's why it's so important to have podcasts yours.
• 27:53
  And I loved what you said about your group, and we're gonna get into talking about your group in a second, because I love that you pointed out, and I never think about this, the anonymous post in Facebook.
• 28:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:06
  How powerful.
• 28:07
  I got thinking about how powerful that was, and it makes me mad.
• 28:13
  I, I never really thought about how powerful it was until I heard you say that today.
• 28:17
  But so many times I look at an anonymous post, and then I watch the comments afterwards- And it's why are you being ugly to someone who didn't wanna tell you who they were?
• 28:28
  They're trying to get support, and they don't feel comfortable enough to come out and do it.
• 28:33
  Right.
• 28:34
  Give them the same love you would do if it was your best friend sitting there.
• 28:37
  Right.
• 28:38
  Exactly.
• 28:39
  So, it really opened my eyes.
• 28:40
  I mean, just 45 minutes before this podcast, I was "Wow, I never really thought about the power of that anonymous posting."
• 28:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:48
  And so talk about your group.
• 28:51
  So, it had actually started before I started therapy, believe it or not.
• 28:55
  I was part of this group called Suicide Prevention Rocks, and I just kinda got something in my head that said, "All right, I wanna share my story in some capacity."
• 29:05
  I need to get it off my chest and just kind of let other people know that they're not alone.
• 29:10
  So shared my story in there, and it got quite the traction in the group.
• 29:15
  Think about 600, 700 likes.
• 29:17
  And, I'm "Okay, maybe I have something here.
• 29:20
  Maybe, maybe we can do something with this."
• 29:22
  So I kept sharing a little bit more inspiring words of just, "Hey," "I'm having a bad day, but it's okay because XYZ."
• 29:30
  And they reached out to me and said, "Hey," "how would you to write for, this blog?
• 29:34
  It's for a gentleman who had lost his husband to suicide, and, he would you to, to write some blogs for suicide prevention."
• 29:42
  I'm "Cool, yeah.
• 29:42
  That sounds great."
• 29:44
  Posted the first one, and, It, it went pretty good.
• 29:47
  it got a little bit of traction, and then I did a second one, and it just kind of sat there in pending for a little bit.
• 29:52
  And I was just sitting there for maybe about a week or two, and it never got posted.
• 29:56
  I'm "Okay, so I think they're just trying to pocket me because traffic was going to me and not to their page."
• 30:02
  And I, I can understand if you're, putting money and time into your own group and somebody's taking that attention away.
• 30:09
  I can understand it to an extent.
• 30:12
  But then I'm "Okay, I'm just gonna create my own page and just kind of create what my intention of my, of sharing my story was."
• 30:20
  So I created that, and they got pissed off at me for doing that.
• 30:23
  They were "Oh, did you start another group?"
• 30:25
  And this and that.
• 30:26
  I'm "Dude, you guys weren't posting anything that I was sharing."
• 30:29
  I'm "That's what I was under the assumption we were doing."
• 30:32
  we're both in the mental health community trying to share awareness.
• 30:37
  isn't that what we're doing?
• 30:38
  Yeah, but, but X, Y, Z.
• 30:40
  I don't even remember the argument.
• 30:42
  I'm "Okay, well, respectfully I'm just gonna walk away and do my own thing."
• 30:46
  So the group started as a public group, and it started getting a little bit of traffic.
• 30:50
  And when I started sharing my story, I'm okay, my mom has her little spies of people on Facebook that will just, look for anything I post and share it to her.
• 31:00
  And I, I weeded them out one at a time, and I started figuring out who was telling her things I was saying.
• 31:06
  I'm okay, I cannot let them compromise this group, and anybody else who's sharing stuff in there, I don't want them to be compromised either.
• 31:14
  Right.
• 31:14
  So when I made it private, more people were sharing.
• 31:18
  the amount of people that were sharing was unbelievable.
• 31:22
  there is this one girl, and I- I'm gonna shout her out because I think out of everybody I've ever met, she has put in so much growth to who she is and growing as a mother and everything that
• 31:35
  she's doing right now.
• 31:36
  my friend Ashley.
• 31:37
  Very introverted, very, struggling with her identity and everything else before she was diagnosed.
• 31:44
  And she became a mother, and she started figuring out all her diagnostics of, the things that she was struggling with.
• 31:51
  And the person she is now compared to the person that she was when she joined the group, 100% different.
• 31:58
  Mm.
• 31:58
  And that's what I wanted out of that group.
• 32:01
  I wanted people that could share their story.
• 32:03
  I wanted people that could say, "Hey, I was this way five years ago, and five years later I'm a completely different person because I shared my story."
• 32:11
  Right.
• 32:11
  And there's plenty of stories that are part of that group that have turned out to be that way.
• 32:17
  I remember the first time- Somebody sent me a message on the side and told me that the group saved their life.
• 32:23
  And I'm thinking to myself, I'm "I don't know how true that is."
• 32:26
  I, I appreciate it if the, if you're being sincere.
• 32:29
  And I'm I'm just really glad that you have a safe space to share your story and, feel comfortable enough to share what you're sharing."
• 32:37
  And just hearing things that knows, knowing that I'm doing the right things and helping as many people as I'm helping.
• 32:44
  Well, you definitely are.
• 32:45
  And I'm gonna put the link to that group in the show notes so people can apply.
• 32:49
  I guess they have to apply or- Yeah answer questions, and you screen them, which is p- perfectly the right way to do it, you said.
• 32:56
  I mean, but I did point out, I did realize by you mentioning that thing about the power of the anonymous post, that was, that was incredible.
• 33:04
  But- you're saving lives.
• 33:07
  you- Mm might not know it, but deep down in your heart, and it's I say, we, we have this energy field around us, and every time we can put that positive energy into the world, it has this imme-
• 33:18
  immense ripple effect that we don't even understand.
• 33:21
  Absolutely.
• 33:21
  So you can say one thing to someone seemingly so insignificant, but let's just say for instance you have a cashier at the grocery store and she was in that deep, dark place that we talked about that you were
• 33:36
  at a couple times in your life, and you tell her to have a blessed day instead of, "Thanks," and grab your change.
• 33:43
  You never know.
• 33:45
  And then so what does she do?
• 33:46
  You've just put her spirits up.
• 33:48
  Well, the next five people she interacts with are gonna have that positive energy frequency.
• 33:53
  I'm all about- Yeah energy, Yeah.
• 33:55
  So it, it's kind of my podcast.
• 33:58
  A lot of people don't comment on my podcast.
• 34:00
  They don't They don't say anything.
• 34:02
  It's crickets.
• 34:03
  And I'm "What the hell?"
• 34:04
  does nobody listen to this thing?
• 34:05
  But I get p- private messages all the time.
• 34:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:09
  So you're doing good.
• 34:11
  I'm telling you you're doing good.
• 34:12
  you're it's, it's hard to see it for yourself though.
• 34:15
  Yeah.
• 34:15
  And my theory going in, same thing with my podcast, was if only one, if every day I can make one person's life a little brighter, I've more than done my job.
• 34:26
  I've- Yeah fulfilled my purpose.
• 34:28
  And that's why I to give, I said, kind of tangible things.
• 34:32
  what can we do if we wake up in the morning and we feel an elephant is sitting on our chest?
• 34:36
  Right.
• 34:37
  I mean, there, there is 'Cause there's a lot We've collectively, I mean, just between you and I collectively, we've probably had 50 or 60 years of healing.
• 34:49
  Yeah.
• 34:49
  And, you, you said something, the, the cashier, little thing there I just wanted to touch on really quick.
• 34:55
  my grandfather always taught me to, to smile at your neighbor, Just always acknowledge the people that you pass by.
• 35:01
  You never know whose day you're gonna change.
• 35:03
  I struggled with that a lot when I was a kid, just being seen and being heard, Being a, an older brother of, of three, three, siblings, or two other siblings, My parents had their favorites.
• 35:16
  my brother was my dad's favorite, and my sister was my mom's favorite, and I was just there.
• 35:21
  And my grandfather was the first one to affirm that to me.
• 35:26
  He was you were invincible, and you were treated you didn't exist from the day that they were born."
• 35:32
  And that's not a shot at them.
• 35:33
  I love my, my siblings very much, but ever since they were born, I disappeared out of my parents' brain.
• 35:41
  And, unfortunately, it's still kind of that.
• 35:44
  my dad doesn't ever ask how I'm doing.
• 35:46
  my mom will weaponize a conversation that, so I don't really take small talk with her too, too serious.
• 35:53
  Um, but yeah, smiling at your neighbor, smiling at people you walk by or, going to the park.
• 35:59
  my biggest thing is sunsets.
• 36:01
  If I'm going to a park and walking by a, a family, I'm "Hey, how are you?"
• 36:05
  And just keep it simple, and sometimes I get a reply, sometimes I don't, and that's okay, too.
• 36:11
  I think we're in such a weird culture of there's so many different ways to communicate with each other, but we don't talk to one another.
• 36:19
  Right.
• 36:20
  And I will always try to be the difference maker in that on however I can.
• 36:26
  I made friends with my neighbor, it's just, you don't see that anymore.
• 36:30
  You don't- No live next to people who their name, their story or anything that.
• 36:34
  And guy across the street, him and I are very good friends and went to our first wrestling event together a couple months ago.
• 36:41
  it's, smiling at each other and, making friends or just making, acquaintances.
• 36:47
  Yep.
• 36:47
  And you said, just smiling.
• 36:49
  Just, you never know.
• 36:51
  And I, being a teacher, I really took that to heart when I, I truly believe people are born beautiful, divine, joyous creatures.
• 36:59
  If you have a first grader sleeping on the desk or not making eye con- contact, it's not because they don't wanna be friendly or they don't wanna pay attention, it's because their circumstances have set them up so they
• 37:10
  can't.
• 37:10
  Yeah.
• 37:11
  So I always just say give people the benefit of the doubt.
• 37:14
  If someone...
• 37:15
  It, it takes a lot more energy and a lot more muscles to frown than it does to smile.
• 37:20
  Absolutely.
• 37:20
  So if somebody has a frown on their face, there's a reason.
• 37:24
  They didn't wake up in the- And- I, it's you said your mom was an addict.
• 37:28
  I don't know how you have c- come around that, if you went through ACA, I don't know your process with that.
• 37:35
  But my whole life changed when I realized that everything my mother did was because of her trauma.
• 37:41
  Yeah.
• 37:41
  Yeah.
• 37:42
  Wasn't because- 100% she wanted to hurt me.
• 37:44
  It's because she was so traumatized, she didn't know any better.
• 37:48
  Yeah.
• 37:48
  You, you said your, your dad sent you, or your parents sent you away when you were self-harming.
• 37:52
  My mother was bulimic, and her dad sent her to boarding school in England for four years and said, "Come back when you're better."
• 37:58
  Well, she was an alcoholic from the time she was 14, and a drug addict.
• 38:02
  Right.
• 38:02
  sh- it wasn't her.
• 38:05
  I mean, it was her, and yes, when I was a child, I was mad.
• 38:09
  When I tell you mad, I was pissed off.
• 38:12
  Yeah.
• 38:13
  But then it's kinda hmm, when you look at it that.
• 38:17
  So I kinda give everybody that benefit of the doubt.
• 38:19
  Yeah.
• 38:20
  it doesn't make the hurt any less.
• 38:21
  Right.
• 38:21
  And so you still have to come to terms with that.
• 38:23
  But the person on the street, they're not out to hurt people.
• 38:27
  They- Right they're just not.
• 38:29
  They're just having a shitty day because of what life fed them, so.
• 38:32
  Right.
• 38:33
  And, one of, one of the very first people in my life who I'm really good friends with now was actually my first grade teacher.
• 38:39
  Um, her and I are very close friends, and she was one of the first people to see what I was going through, 'cause, I said, my parents got divorced very young, and, she noticed my parents were coming separate
• 38:53
  on, the parent-teacher conferences, and she wanted to make sure I was okay.
• 38:58
  And I love her to death, and I, I went to her mother's funeral, and everybody that I met there was so surprised that her student came to her mother's funeral.
• 39:08
  Um, and, and I always try to tell her, I'm "You, you saved that little kid's life whether you realize it or not."
• 39:16
  And I, I think teachers are some of the greatest human beings on this planet simply for the fact of I don't think they're appreciated enough.
• 39:27
  I really don't.
• 39:28
  And whether that's from a financial point or from a- The type of human beings it, it takes to be a teacher is so special because there are so many kids that are going through such a hard time that
• 39:43
  sometimes the teacher just doesn't know how to properly deal with, especially in today's society.
• 39:48
  Right.
• 39:49
  No, I agree.
• 39:50
  I think, I think all teachers should be trauma informed as far as how to teach emotional intelligence and how to help kids just, if nothing else, get some of that energy, that negative energy out of their systems Yeah.
• 40:04
  Yeah in a po- in a positive way.
• 40:06
  Right.
• 40:06
  in a, in a productive, healthy manner versus just penting everything up.
• 40:10
  Because I think that is the- Mm-hmm that is the root cause of all evils is that pent up, unprocessed bad emotions.
• 40:20
  Right.
• 40:21
  Energy is, or emotion is energy in motion.
• 40:24
  You gotta get it out.
• 40:25
  Right.
• 40:26
  So well this has been super fun, Chris.
• 40:28
  I could literally talk to you all day, but if people wanna reach out to you and talk to you and, and join your group, where's the best place?
• 40:36
  All of your links will be in the show notes, but where's the best place for them to reach you?
• 40:40
  so the best place to contact me, I usually respond right away, is, my email.
• 40:44
  It's mentalhealthmovementpod@gmail.com or you can message me on Instagram, mentalhealth, movementpod, on Instagram as well.
• 40:54
  Okay.
• 40:54
  And all of those will be in the show notes, all the links, guys.
• 40:57
  So if you're driving, if you're listening, if you don't have time to write it down, do not worry about it.
• 41:01
  Tammy got you.
• 41:02
  And before you leave though, you are not off the hook.
• 41:06
  First of all, thank you so much for coming and sharing your story, and- Of course love to have you back on maybe in another six months or a year and let's- Yeah kinda do a follow-up.
• 41:15
  Um- If you had to leave the listeners with one piece of advice, words of wisdom, or something kind of tangible, your final message to them, positive message, what would it be today?
• 41:27
  The greatest advice that I have ever been given, I will share it to everybody always, is be gentle with yourself.
• 41:34
  we are our own bittest- biggest critic.
• 41:37
  We are, our own biggest enemy at, at times, too.
• 41:40
  And I know it's a, a war inside of our heads, a lot of the days duri- during the week, but all we have to do is, give ourselves grace and be gentle with ourselves.
• 41:50
  Perfect.
• 41:51
  Perfectly and well said, because it is true.
• 41:54
  We are our own worst critic.
• 41:56
  Yeah.
• 41:57
  So thank you very much, everybody, and we will hopefully have you come back on.
• 42:02
  And also, if, if you're out there listening, remember, don't be your...
• 42:06
  Treat yourself your own best friend.
• 42:08
  When a thought pops into your mind and you wouldn't react the way you do to your own best friend, don't react to yourself that way.
• 42:16
  You literally...
• 42:17
  The relationship you have with yourself is the longest standing one you will have with anybody, so make it a good one.
• 42:24
  Make it a good one.
• 42:25
  Love yourself.
• 42:26
  You deserve it.
• 42:26
  You so, so deserve it.
• 42:28
  So you all have a blessed day, and we will see you back.
• 42:31
  Bye.