Latest / MaxValue Podcast / Max Productivity = Max Value ft. Sarah Tetlow

Transcript

Max Productivity = Max Value ft. Sarah Tetlow · MaxValue Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody procrastinates, but not everybody is a procrastinator.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: So you know the age old saying, if a tree falls in the forest and no one's around to hear it doesn't make a sound.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Writing the book, quote unquote, was earning more social reward than having had written the book.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: If everything is an A priority, then nothing's important.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: The E is probably the most critical component of everything, which is to eliminate control.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: I can do it faster.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can do it better.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: I can just do it, period.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have time to train somebody else, but that's a procrastination technique.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest limiters of how effective a business is, how valuable it is, is owner dependency.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Max Value, the show for business owners and their trusted advisors who are on a mission to maximize their value with business valuation, exit planning, strategy, and maybe finally figuring out how to make that clock work for you.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ben Town.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And today's conversation is a little different from our normal discussions of strategy and valuation writ large, because the most valuable businesses aren't just built on founders who are the smartest or most diligent, but by those who are most intentional in how they devote their time and their effort.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to be zooming in to look at the daily effectiveness of those individuals leading businesses and how they can have a perfectly productive day.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Our guest, Sarah Tetlow, is the author of the recently published book The Perfectly Productive Day, and is the founder of Firm Focus, a productivity consulting firm.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: The book walks through the science and research behind every phase of your daily cycle from the morning kickoff, the commute, workday, wind down, and even sleeping.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: No one ever achieves perfection, but that's not what it's all about.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's about making systems that work for you, even in the messy days.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to dive into the content and see how I can make my days more productive.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Sarah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Ben.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Always great to chat with you.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: So looking forward to our conversation today and how it can help your listeners.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, me too.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So diving right in then, can you give the audience a quick rundown of who you work with and for at Firm Focus and what the company does so we have a little context of who you are and who you help?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, happily.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: My background was working in law firms.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: So Firm Focus was created in 2018 with the desire to help lawyers and legal professionals design that intentional day.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we work one-on-one in a coaching setting, helping that individual with things like procrastination, distractions and interruptions, too many meetings, too many things to do, not controlling all of your to-dos in one trusted system.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, through working with attorneys and networking and meeting a lot of other individuals, naturally that fell into our second biggest industry is CPAs or those in the accounting and finance space.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And in addition to coaching, I also do a lot of speaking and training.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I also consult on the inbox to achieve inbox zen through my proprietary art system, ARTT.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's an acronym for the methodology that I teach to achieve that inbox zen.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that is what we do.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that I can help people figure out the right systems to have a more intentional workday.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, getting the things done that you need to get done so you can shut down your computer and say, I feel accomplished today, and the rest can wait till tomorrow.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, uh to everybody out there, uh, I'm I am not unbiased in the least.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think uh Sarah's great.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I use uh use your art system uh for my email inbox as well.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: But please don't blame her when I take a long time to respond.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with something that hits kind of close to home.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um it in my practice, I work with business owners on valuations, MA, exit planning, that sort of thing.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the one of the common things I hear is a version of, you know, I know I need to work on my exit plan.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know I should understand what my business is worth.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't have time.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're so buried in the day-to-day that the strategic work that's so important just never really gets done.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: In in your book, uh, you talk about deep work blocks and the idea of giving your future self a gift by holding time on your calendar before you know you you'll have uh any use for it.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, to the question, how does a business owner who is currently the bottleneck for everything, like we so often are, how do they carve out time for the big picture important deep work that doesn't have a deadline?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so a couple thoughts around this.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: One is it has to remain a priority.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: So even though I know it's the thing that doesn't have a deadline and we want to prioritize the client deliverables, but there's such a thing as like Parkinson's law.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's um something we can apply here.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: So Parkinson's law is the adage that work expands or shrinks so as to fill the time available for completion.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: For the sake of math and painting a picture here, I know a 40-hour work week might be a dream to some of our listeners, but let's just go off of a 40-hour work week.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you'll always probably have enough work to fill that week and the next week and the next week and the next week.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, that's a good thing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: That means that you've got job stability, it means you have clients that that you've retained over time and they um value your work and they want to keep working with you.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a good thing to have enough work to fill out weeks, months and ahead of time.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: So with the 40 hours a week work week, if we were looking at that mathematically, you have to prioritize I'm going to invest, you know, some number of hours a week into the business and into whatever that means, it might be the exit plan.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say for the sake of this discussion, that is what it is.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So even if I say I'm gonna hold space for two hours a week to work on it, and that time is guarded time where that two hours is blocked for that particular thing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when I want to come back to blocked time in a moment because it was kind of buried in your question there, and I do feel pretty passionately about how that's identified.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: But let's say you lock two hours to work on your exit strategy, then within that time, because we too often get to that moment and old habits reappear.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I just have to, I'm too busy, I've got too much client work to do.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: But breaking it down, so holding that time sacred for yourself and then breaking it down.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: What is the next action you're gonna do on that particular thing in your business?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: In this case, we're talking about what your exit strategy is.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe during that two-hour block, you break down, well, um, I need to reach out to Ben, to Town Advisory, and I need to schedule a time to meet with them and find out what they're gonna need from me.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: I need to collect those financial records and send it over to his team or just have it available for that initial call.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: So breaking it down so that that big to-do, like, oh, I've got to think about my exit strategy and my valuation of my business and what that means, we're just breaking it down into that two-hour block each week.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe it's a one-hour block each week or every other week.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: But it's through those tiny steps, those small amounts of time, that you will achieve the results, not by saying, I just need to find one whole week that I can block off and do nothing but work on the business.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's likely not going to happen because when you do find one week off, you're gonna want to go on that vacation that you've been dreaming of going on, not working on this strategy and holding out all your other calls and emails.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know I'm being long-winded, but I promised I'd go back to the blocked time.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: I want to visit that real quick.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: In your question, you asked about this, Ben.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: I believe in having repeat blocks of time on your calendar that you call something like deep work or focus work or work on business, or I like to make it fun.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: In my book, I think I have something like don't give this time away, Sarah, as a block that I will do.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you won't always know what you're gonna use that block of time for, but the future you is gonna be so grateful that you have it each week on your calendar.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you can move it, you can take it if it's normally Tuesdays from eight to 10 in the morning, but you have an important call that you need to do or meeting, you can move it to 11 to 1.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the fact that you have this recurring block time.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I typically don't define what it is I'm going to use that block of time for until often the day before.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the day before when I do my window routine and I look at um what's on calendar tomorrow that's non-negotiable.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Those are meetings, phone calls, travel, anything like that where you've already committed to showing up with somebody.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any proper follow-up for that particular meeting or event?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then what we have left is the open time of the day.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then that open time of the day, that's all the work that we're trying to get done.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: And when we have that deep block, now we can plug in, well, here is the top priorities for me to get done tomorrow.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm gonna use that block time intentionally to work on whatever it is.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that generally speaking is how I recommend using the deep work block of time, but just to marry these together when we're talking about something specific like the exit strategy that you need to be working on.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: In that case, I would dedicate that hour, say, a week for that particular purpose.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Did that make sense in the two delineations there, Ben?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like the idea of having a deep, uh, deep work type block of time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I do try to actually block off a good chunk of Wednesday uh at just as as hold time.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just I I need to hold it for something because I know something's coming.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: The uh that's really successful though, I gotta say.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, how what what's a good mechanism to protect it when it's on your calendar?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna just ask you, but you sort of answered it in an asking me question.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna ask you, how does it feel that you have that on your calendar?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: But then you clarified that you're not great about always keeping it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Let me ask you first though, when you have kept it, how does that feel?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's great.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's it's it's the best.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like there, there's a bunch of different things that it can be filled with that that I find valuable that I wouldn't otherwise have time for.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it does work sometimes.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I can go play pickleball, you know, like uh because that's important.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I have a desk job, you know, I need to get out and and move.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's just you know, getting up from the desk and taking a you know, take taking a little stroll, and sometimes it's filling it with client work, and sometimes it's you know, but even then, at least then I've had the time and I can throw some effort behind something rather than just going from one thing to the next to the next to the next.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I love in that answer, I just want to unpack a couple of things there.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: I heard that when you have held on to it, there are times on the one extreme, it's um, and I'm just using the word extreme.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that's the right word in this case, but on the one extreme, it's to go play pickleball or go for a walk or go do something personal or energizing for you that is not work-related or business related.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And on the other extreme, I heard there are times that you take that Wednesday and you say, I'm gonna pack it full of client deliverables because that is the moment, that is what I'm experiencing this week, and that is where I need to show up on Wednesday.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think um in your answer there, I heard, and maybe there's a percentage of how many times you're doing that pickleball day versus that client deliverable day, but I heard that there's a balance there, which is really good.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think to answer your question on how do you guard it, and I want to admit, I'm probably very similar to you and a lot of people listening.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I am not a robot, I'm a human being, and that's why I wrote the perfectly productive day, because there are days where I've guarded time and I've given it away.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Often when that happens after or leading up to an after, I am like, why did I do that?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: I really needed that open time to just do something, whether it's work on the business or go for that walk or head to the gym in the middle of the day, or just go sit and read a book, whatever it might be.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I often find that I'm like, why did I do that again?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: But I also at times do this.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you guard it?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I talked about the various naming conventions for that block, and I threw out a couple of examples, but sometimes it's actually creating that naming convention that's going to speak with you when you see that block on your calendar and you're inclined to give it away to somebody else.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Where I usually am really good about this is uh I just got off of a month-long travel and I flew home on Monday and on this Tuesday and this Wednesday, I blocked every open space on my calendar, but I wrote post-trip, do not give this time away.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: And when I would look at it and have a request to give that time away, I would pause.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: So the power is in the pause too, and I would say, how is it gonna feel to give that time away?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna be anxious, I'm gonna feel more frustrated with myself because I'm getting caught up on email, I'm getting caught up on all the deliverables I need to do while I essentially have been gone for a month.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Not not responsive for that month, but not really in my day-to-day.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: So naming conventions are important.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Also, going back to that window routine, that can be incredibly impactful as well.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: So let's just put ourselves in your shoes on a Tuesday, Ben.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And Tuesday, you're gonna do your window routine for Wednesday.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I'm assuming at this point your Wednesday calendar is pretty open or it's blocked for you to do whatever Ben's gonna need to do this week.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: So there's gonna be Tuesdays where you look at Wednesday and you see an open calendar and you say, Well, I'm so glad I have time on my calendar without meetings and phone calls and um in-person and networking events because I have a long list of deliverables that I feel behind on and I just need that space and time to get caught up.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: You've used that time right that day.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Then there's gonna be another day where you're doing your wind-down routine on that Tuesday and you look at the next day and you're feeling pretty caught up on things.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, Thursday, you've got some open time too.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you say, you know what?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'm gonna hit that pickleball court in the middle of the day tomorrow.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that feels right for me right now.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Would you say both of those scenarios make sense to you?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they they absolutely make sense.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, there's you know, there's other scenarios where it's just all filled all the time.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's that's just life as well.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I but I think the the important thing or an important thing of what you're saying is you're kind of forcing yourself to make a decision point on giving away that time, which is what you're doing anyway, when you don't label it for yourself and and make it a a kind of a mental pause, but you're making a decision about it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And now now you can be intentional about whether you give it away for something low value or not.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I love it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: That absolutely makes makes some sense.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the uh, you know, one thing that that uh Geraldine and I have have developed over our time uh working together is it's really easy just within a day to go back to back to back to back.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, she she protects me, she puts in half an hour hold, you know, so I can eat lunch or you know, take care of other things, you know, briefly between a couple of meetings, just so I don't get go insane.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, even even the little tiny bits are are useful and necessary so you're not totally ragged and losing 30 minutes in a day, by the way, it's full with something else, don't worry.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But but taking away 30 minutes from the time that I I'm supposed to schedule something doesn't matter, it just doesn't because I just work around it, no big deal.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Moving into another one of the topics um in your book, one of the frameworks you have is called Torque.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's an acronym.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And just go through it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so useful?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love the term.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so TORC is actually an acronym that I created that um ties into delegation strategies.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: So let me break it down and I'll lead into it just a little bit, as I always do.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I'm a little like to hear the sound of my voice sometimes, I guess.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: But this is a place for it.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: What's that?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is the place for it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I was asked to create this program for a client on delegation strategies.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought when I prepared it was um about three and a half years ago, and I thought, what makes effective delegation?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I wrote down all of the things that that I believe go into a healthy delegation relationship.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: And naturally, when I untangled it, it came out with the acronym of Twerk.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the recipe that I believe leads to effective delegation.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it starts with the T, which is trust and respect.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Delegation is really, I think it's kind of an ugly word.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: It feels ugly when I say it.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: And what it really is, is it's a relationship.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's a relationship between people who work together and want to achieve a common goal.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so that trust and respect is in order for healthy delegation to be applicable, there has to be mutual trust and respect.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: So certainly the delegator, the boss, if you will, needs to trust and respect the team at which he or she is delegating to.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: That seems kind of obvious.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I believe that because it's a relationship, the trust and respect actually needs to run in all directions.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because otherwise, often what we see, if we have a delegate, so the subordinate, if you will, just for the sake of defining this relationship, if they don't trust and respect the boss, if they um have had terrible experiences where they've delivered on time and they're reprimanded for their work, they see the boss thinks that their work product is crap.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: They red line things and send it back to them, but without leading them, the boss isn't available to guide them or mentor them throughout these projects, then they're gonna start procrastinating, they're gonna have signs of analysis, paralysis, perfectionism, avoidance of working with that particular person.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: So trust and respect runs both ways.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: The O stands for organized.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now, on the one hand, that means being organized, so organized in your physical and mental space.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what I am really talking about in the uh delegation relationship is project management.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: So being organized enough, anticipating your needs enough that we can define that successful relationship.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I can say, I have this project that is going to be due in three weeks.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: I am not able to put my attention on it much right now, but I need to carve out 30 minutes or an hour or even 10 minutes in some cases to know what I'm going to need that I can start delegating to other individuals to start working on it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: So in that three-week period of time until the deliverables due, um, I can mentor them, lead them, get some pieces back, refine it, be available to perfect that work deliverable by the time I'm able to put attention on it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the O.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: The R is repetition.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Now, repetition through the three Ps, working with the same people on similar projects andor processes.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: So obvious, that's kind of obvious.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like we wouldn't delegate a one-time project to a one-time temp person that's going to take a half an hour to explain what you're going to need, and it would take an hour for me to just get the whole thing done.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's not really where we want to be investing in delegation.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: We want to invest again in this relationship that we have.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is a relationship, but not as much as what we're talking about with delegating to repeat people, processes, and projects.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can just take a breath and see if you have a question.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to have the trust going both ways that the team leader is supplying all of what's needed to the team member to be able to appropriately, accurately, efficiently do the project and get the result uh that's needed.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if if that chain is broken somewhere, you're you're gonna have a problem.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think on the you know, on the organized side, all those project management skills, you know, hey, let's make sure that we know the key dates, let's know, make sure that we, you know, what's depend the dependencies, what's dependent on you know, one thing to the next.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And are there things we can do in parallel so that you know you're not setting everybody up to be at a big rush at the end because you didn't do step nine up front when you, you know, right after step two, even though you probably should have, in order to make sure that you could get to step 10, you know, at the right time.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, absolutely.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, excellent.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Should I continue with the Q E?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the Q and the U are partners.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So the Q stands for the quality of work.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: What's that?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just like a Scrabble, they're always partners.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: So the uh I like that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: I that's so funny you said that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: I visited a client's office today and they had a huge Scrabble board up on the wall, and it had words that said the devil wears Prada to Miranda.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was kind of fun, anyway.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Total digression there, but it was really fun to see.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it like, you know, when the world just speaks to you where I saw Scrabble earlier today, and then you just mentioned it, and that's leading me to think maybe I need to pull out my Scrabble board tonight.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: So random thoughts of Sarah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let me go back to the U.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, they have a relationship together.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: The Q stands for the quality of work.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um, again, sort of obvious, but the breakdown of delegation occurs when, again, me as the person, the team leader who's delegating, and I assign something to somebody, and the first time that they do that project, or the first time I work with that person, or the first time we're working on this process, it's not going to be a perfect work product.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: But often people go, it failed.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can't work with that person.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Their work product was really crappy.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And ultimately, the you is an understanding that the quality of work gets built through that relationship.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: It gets built through the mutual trust and respect.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's through the communication, it's through being organized, it's through knowing what the dependencies are, it's through anticipating your needs, providing that mentoring feedback.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: It takes time, but it's worth it to repeat with the same people on similar projects andor processes with that understanding that the quality of work can improve as that relationship continues over time.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard work.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Delegation is hard work, but it's so rewarding because we've all done it and we've been on the other side of delegating and we reap those benefits of like I remember a time where I used to do all of that manually and now I barely touch it because this person is repeating that process for me.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: So there is an E, because I I know I sort of summarized it all beautifully there, but the E is probably the most critical component of everything, which is to eliminate control.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: I can do it faster.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can do it better.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: I can just do it period.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have time to train somebody else.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have time to train someone else because I don't have little time in my day or because I failed and I waited to the last minute before I realize I could have used help on this and now I have to do it because it's Friday night or the person that I would normally work on with this is way too busy.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's why the rest of the Torque acronym is so important for this relationship because we have to relinquish that control and take ownership of what it is that we are holding on to control of because of those reasons and more.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: And by relinquishing the control of our projects and um our work deliverables we gain back more control of ourselves, which is a great thing.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's that's very cool.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously you still have the responsibility for the work outcome but because you're responsible doesn't mean you can or have to control everything.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the times that could be more like eliminating eliminating my control issues rather than you know control per se.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, is there anybody else in the company who can do you know the things that I do as well as I do or at least in in in in all the ways you know maybe maybe not but the you know how how I hold that my brain is is uh very important to how I can do delegation appropriately.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really like the I really like the torque acronym because in in business I believe uh it's all about leverage.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And of course torque is you know force produced through leverage.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's kind of the the the physics definition if if you will.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of a important point right especially if you're a key person in a business one of the biggest limiters of how effective a the business is how valuable it is is owner dependency.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if the owner is the bottleneck for like everything again that's normal um then the whole company is limited to how much it can get done.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So getting maybe step one maximum leverage out of the owner is key.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now she shouldn't stop there but that's I really think that is a a really good step one.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when you help somebody create systems and delegate you're not just making their day more productive you're literally helping them improve the value of the business which is kind of where we we cross over do you find that your clients are able to connect those dots and and make that understanding happen for themselves or is that a blind spot?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's an interesting question.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a case by case basis.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think most do see that that is the reason that they're investing in something like productivity coaching.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's not so that they can crank out more work.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's obviously not the goal of most of my clients it's that what am I doing wrong that I feel at the end of the day like I did nothing but crank out work and yet my list just got longer and my inbox got fuller and and in some cases I have team members who are asking for more work.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: That is where we know something is broken in the system and that they certainly are the bottleneck.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I forgot your actual question though.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you did too or if I answered I mean I unfortunately I set you up uh poorly because it was a kind of it ended up being a yes or no question but basically it was yeah do are clients able to connect the dots of you know them being more efficient and leveraged and delegatable leads to more business value.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do they actually see that as the case?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I would assume that that people who become your clients can and can connect on dots and people who don't never get it and never become your clients.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that's a great way to explain it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: So they kind of naturally um evolve where when they do become my clients then they recognize the answer is yes and when they don't well hopefully we stay in touch and one day they wake up and realize that they need both of us.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hold on real quick I'll just take a few moments of your attention to talk about max value podcast and why we do what we do.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah and I spent the episode discussing optimizing your time and it's not just about planning your day or getting enough sleep and it's not just a kludge of productivity hacks.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: An owner who can't leverage their time properly doesn't spend the right amount of time on high value work and doesn't create a business that can survive on its own for a three day weekend away.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And really that's the whole point of max value podcast.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Value gets built in the moments between the hard work and it drains away the same way.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this builds up over time in those long ordinary weeks when you want to finally retire and and take time for yourself, hopefully the calendar has been working for you the whole time in creating a valuable transferable business.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And either way, my company's exit builder program is built around the key question what's actually holding your business back from running without you and what do you want it to become once it can want to see how it works?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Start at townadvisory.com or reach out to me directly.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: No cost to you and I promise it'll be time well spent.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the attention and now back to Sarah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And first things first always so let's talk about prioritization because that's where we can get the get the traction you note in the book that if everything is an A priority then nothing is nothing's important.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um and then you know if everything you know everything else being a B to Z priority all the B to Z priorities are just the things that keep you busy that was cute and easy to remember that way.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you know the when when we're running a business all the urgent things are always screaming the loudest um you know payroll client fires you know whatever whatever but the uh but the deep work the work that actually builds long-term value you know documenting processes all that stuff doesn't have a deadline we kind of started there in the in the conversation how do you use your own frameworks to distinguish between a real you know A1 priority and just something that's kind of a shiny distraction.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well I have good news for those listening prioritization is actually something that most of you probably already know how to do well.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's I'm gonna say some of the ways I prioritize and don't let me forget then the latter part of your question which is how do you separate the deliverables you need to do from the shiny distraction um but I want to I want to hone in on prioritization for a moment because I feel pretty strongly about this.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: So most of you already know how to do this and what you're doing for the most part with a little caveat that I'll hang there and I'll come back to at the end of my spiel here, but for the most part you are doing prioritization right.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna throw out some of the ways to prioritize one is the urgent important on fire thing.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes that is just the priority we want to try to mitigate those as much as possible.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm visualizing and if you're not familiar with it you can always Google the Stephen Covey four quadrant box or four quadrant model which is comparing important and urgency.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: So we have when it is important and urgent those are your fire drills and you want to try to prevent those or mitigate those but they are going to happen.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: We can't always control that those are going to happen especially when we have clients that sometimes that is just the name of the game.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: We also have important and not urgent so that is your succession plan, your exit strategy other areas of your business where it is important but it's not urgent or it doesn't have a deadline and we want to actually focus in that area when possible.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: That could also be a lot of your client deliverables this is important.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's not urgent because it's not on fire.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's not due till next week or next month or tomorrow but I'm gonna work on it in a state of calm so my amygdala is not flaring and I'm stressed out about it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's where we want to largely be spending our work days in that quadrant then we have not important and urgent and that could be like a disruptive phone call that wasn't important but it was urgent.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that could be a family member calling or something those other examples as well and we want to control those a little bit and then finally we have not important not urgent that could be the cat videos or social media or a news break and cubby recommends that we don't completely avoid those because sometimes we need that release.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: We need that transition for a moment to be able to then go back to the important and not urgent quadrant and work there.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: So in prioritization sometimes it is the important and urgent that we have to prioritize other times it's the thing that has a deadline other times it's the thing that you can again put some focus on it today to unlock bottlenecks for other people or to um not be a bottleneck yourself.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: So those are some examples that you're already in tune with to be able to effectively prioritize.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Now I mentioned the little caveat that I wanted to revisit.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: And this is I think where people doubt that they really know how to prioritize effectively because they're doing all those things but what happens is they don't trust themselves.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: So they don't trust that they in fact picked up this thing to do and it's the highest priority and that could be because and while they're working on it an email comes in and it's a client asking the status of something.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Now all of a sudden that feels like the bigger priority I I need to task switch or multitask and jump over and do that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Think they picked their number one priority and then they're bored with it or they look at something another trigger on their desktop or another file and they go, oh I should probably be working on that instead.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm here to empower people to say and this also goes with the window routine when you're looking at the next day and you say here are the top three things that I'm going to work on tomorrow trust yourself.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hold yourself true to that plan and then recalibrate for the next day.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Now you get to pick three new top priority things to work on on Thursday and then on Friday.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that is how to effectively prioritize and I think the key thing there is trusting yourself even when all the other noise and distraction comes in.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you separate the priority from the distractions is that that was the final wrap up to that question.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it just goes back to that trusting yourself as well as I say productive people are productive because they use tools and systems to keep you keep them on track.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so in that hypothetical I just gave, I identified that my number one priority this afternoon is I'm going to work on this presentation that I have coming up.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now that is what I know I need to work on.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I do go check email in between transitioning but I do it knowing what my top priority is and that way if an email comes in just as an example of one shiny object that the sender deems more important andor in the moment I go oh I need to do that but I pause and I now have data to compare.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: Does this shiny object that just came in take priority over the thing I planned today?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: And we're very careful here because what we tend to do as sometimes irrational human beings is we say yeah I really need to get to this email and respond to it right now.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a procrastination technique because we don't really want to work on that presentation.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: And now we can blame that email that came in as the reason that we have to push off in my case my presentation and in your case that blocked time that you just had to work on your exit strategy that's what happens we blame that email but I am here to share with you no no that's your own behavior and your own fault.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so instead guard the time to work on I'm just gonna loop it back into the the exit strategy.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: You've blocked that time you look at email and that email came in from that client or something else.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: If you saw an hour from now you're still being responsive.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you're creating the urgency and the distraction not the person who emailed you so what I do with that information is I say okay I got that email I I want to go do it because I don't want to do this other thing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: But productive people use tools and systems to keep them on track.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I say you know what I can handle that email in that in an hour or tomorrow morning or in two hours whatever the case may be and I five four three two one what is my next action on my presentation and the that's the hardest part it's that moment it's that moment of the crossroads of do I let that distraction take me over and I'm using the email as an example because I think that's a real true example but it could be um I'm gonna go play pickleball when I really should be working on this thing or um I'm gonna just go on social media just this once or I'm gonna check the news that takes us into a black void.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: So in that moment though it's really you have to have the internal all the strategies I'm giving you do help, but in that moment you have to trust yourself that you can do it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: You can just go what's my next action on working on my exit strategy once you open up that document or open up the email or uh to to Ben, open up an email to Ben, not open up the email from the client or close your open up your filing cabinet and start looking for your financial records or log into them online, whatever it might be, once you just do that first one minute of the project that you're dreading or avoiding you're in it's you're in you're doing it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually so much easier.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's that pivotal moment that is so hard Ben so that's like that is again going back to making a decision making it a decision and not making it a reflex because of course it's way easier to have that dopamine hit from answering an email that takes you a minute and takes your brain off of your your important item and it's much easier to do that and feel good about it than it is to you know advance the bigger but more important uh project by half a percent in that you know in that little a little amount of time but actually that would be more important to do is to advance just this little tiny thing which doesn't give you the dopamine hit at all um uh not not until you get to the end anyway uh so it it it absolutely makes uh makes it makes a ton of sense that way um one one of the one of the other things in in your book is talking about the uh the shutdown routine the wind down routine um just talk us through what that is and why why you think it's so important.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah absolutely so I mentioned it briefly earlier but I'll dive a leap little bit deeper into it.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it sounds more complicated than it is.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually quite simple.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Even my words right now are going to sound more complicated than than it is.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's really uh two parts with the first part having a subpart.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: So shutdown routine or wind down routine I call it the shutdown routine this is something that should happen not in the last five 10 15 minutes before you're gonna shut your computer down and walk away it should be about an hour and a half to two hours before you end that day and what you do and I'll explain the the one hour one and a half to two hours before you end the day in just a moment but I want to get into what you actually do because I'm doing an awfully big lead up for something that is very valuable but really isn't that complicated.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: You look at the calendar for the next day and you use something called mental simulation what will it look and feel like to be me that day so you look at the calendar and what is non-negotiable so let's for hypothetical purposes you have a 9 a.m meeting it's gonna take about an hour and you have a 12 o'clock lunch meeting for an hour on your calendar and you have a 330 appointment out of the office.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay so those are your non-negotiables now the the follow-up to it the part one and two of that is is there any prep is there any follow-up so I look at that 9 a.m meeting and I just ask myself is there anything I need to do to prep for that meeting now in some cases it might be no or I just need five minutes before the meeting to just look at last week's notes or whatever.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: But that's still time that's still five minutes or 10 minutes or maybe in some cases I've worked with clients where they're like I'm gonna need an hour.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um now I'm giving you a little hint why we do this two hours before the end of the day and not the last 10 minutes but I will elaborate on that in a moment.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay so what's on calendar what's non-negotiable is there any prep is there any follow-up and a little hint if it's a meeting there is almost always going to be some sort of follow-up even if it's just synthesizing your notes um even if it's I just promised this one email or introduction or a document I was going to send but there's going to be some amount of time five minutes half hour I don't know of follow-up to that meeting but prep and follow up what this prompt also is having you consider is travel.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that 330 appointment out of the office um oh you know what I probably need to leave at three let me put travel on my calendar because that is time that's taken away from your day and the second part of it so first part what's on calendar what's non-negotiable is there prep is there follow up that's all part one okay part two is what's the free time what's the open time and then one of what are my priorities and what I'm gonna work on.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: So the the prep and follow up in that example where we learned that that 9 a.m meeting I need half an hour to prep for it it's gonna go the full hour I'll probably need 15 minutes to follow up just roughly to synthesize or get my to-dos in my project management tool or my trusted system.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: That one hour meeting on your calendar is an hour and 45 minutes of time.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Similarly that 330 appointment out of the office, you're really leaving at three.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh and by the way that one hour lunch meeting with your college friend your college fraternity or sorority friend that's not an hour meeting that's going to take an hour and a half because it's also a networking opportunity and you got to drive there.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's 15 minutes on both ends.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: So now what looks like an hour is really two hours.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we're just getting real about how much time you have to work on your to-do list.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: So now in that example when I'm doing the shutdown routine two hours before the end of my day and I say I don't have an hour more tomorrow morning to prep for that meeting because I'm doing kid drop off and I usually get in around eight or 815 but the math ain't mathing.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I can't do an hour prep in a 45 minute chunk of time.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: So the three things I was going to work on this afternoon, I may need to reprioritize or recalibrate.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna do that prep today and this one thing this afternoon is 45 minutes.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna plug that in as the top priority tomorrow morning and I'm still gonna be able to deliver on time.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe I need to communicate to the client or the team member I know I promised this today I will have it to you by tomorrow at 11 a.m so it's just in the communication and it's playing a little bit of game with the math on your calendar can I synthesize it one more time because I know I went long winded and I just want to summarize it very briefly two hours before the end of the day look at your calendar tomorrow.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's on calendar is there prep is there follow-up and then with the open time what is on your to-do list and how will it fit into that puzzle?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because right now you're thinking I'm gonna get these 10 things done tomorrow because tomorrow doesn't look that bad but in the hypothetical that we just played out together your time got condensed and you really only probably have time to get two of those 10 things done.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really powerful to also limp in a certain sense limit expectation when you have that one guiding principle hearkening back to your answer to one of the questions a couple questions ago you know when you have that one important thing like the presentation you're putting together then you can measure yourself against that and and the freeing thing is that once you get that done you're like this is the A1 important thing that I had to get done today or this week or whatever.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know I can let myself off the hook from A2 A3 A4 you know all all the all the things that are still very important and but I can handle it tomorrow and I can take the win um as as I like to say and you it's just very freeing to not have to think about it and just kind of you know put put push it off because you're right next week is just as busy as this week and the week after the week after and the week after.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely the um I know one thing that you say is that everybody procrastinates but not everybody is a procrastinator.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know in in going through your book, you know I know that you're super super honest about about that for yourself.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah even you know talking about you know delaying finishing the book and because you know writing the book quote unquote was earning more social reward than having had written the book and that's that was a very courageous uh thing to put out there and I I really appreciated that and I I thought it was funny but in a you know a really really great kind of yeah so so I wanted to throw that out there uh just to everybody a little little little reason to go go read the thing we we always do a segment uh these days called uh value vitamins um so let's talk about that procrastination uh for for business owners specifically you know procrastination on that deep strategic work um and that procrastinating on that type of work has a compounding cost uh that you know you you're you're where you're not just losing like a day by not doing a day you're losing you're really losing the compounding benefit of all the improvement you would be building in today applied to every future day.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah uh the you know when you're when you're not doing these things you are reducing the business's value by never getting around to building the systems that would you know tend to increase the value over time.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so getting to it when when your business owner clients aren't breaking through this procrastination barrier to actually start the strategic work calling you you've called it freeze mode.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody's in freeze mode what's the prescription what what do you do to get them to break out Freeze mode.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I want to start with something I'm that just came to my head in the last week when I was traveling, and this is the first time it's gonna land verbally, so hopefully it makes sense and we're gonna test this.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know the age-old saying, if a tree falls in the forest um and no one's around to hear, it doesn't make a sound.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know that?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I was thinking about that last week when I was in Atlanta.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: I was in downtown in the park and seeing trees and just had a moment and I thought, that's not the right question, Ben.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: That isn't the right question.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you think about, I just want you to visualize this forest, right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: That you're not in at the moment that this is a forest you go to on a hike on a regular basis, and you're not in it in the moment that the tree fell.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: No one's around.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: But you go on that hike the next day and you notice that tree has fallen because it's blocking the road, or you always have noticed that tree and now it's laying over horizontally.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Again, the question is not whether or not it makes a sound, because where we're feeling as though when we when we do those steps throughout the day or the week or when we procrastinate on it, because I will touch on procrastination, it's not a question of whether or not anyone's there to hear it, but it's a question about the impact it makes over time, right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: The landscape change, the changes that are more noticeable.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I I was gonna print it, I haven't done it yet.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna have AI create me a little graphic and hang it in my office that shows like the fallen tree, because I think that's a really good visual to hold on to why you're doing some of the things on the day-to-day that are gonna have impact on your future.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you said it so eloquently, Ben.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but now you can kind of tie that together with my visual there and how it makes sense.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love that visual because I've I've I've often thought about that uh that co-on or or whatever.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um the uh I I like the reframe because it go it does shift it from the the experience from what a person experiences to what the what kind of a more factual, if you will, impact is.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean the fact is that that tree is now not standing.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, whether or not it made a sound is actually not so relevant, although it did obviously make a sound.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's just science.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: But getting getting beyond that, uh, you know, the the relativistic part is fine, it's just less important in in a frankly a results-based component of life, which business is.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: So um to further answer your question about procrastination, when you know you have those important trees to work on and all the other noise comes in, I think it goes to a lot of the strategies I I've already talked about.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's the shutdown routine can help with saying that's a priority for me tomorrow, or I'm guarding this time tomorrow to work on this.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Some other strategies are take yourself out of the environment that has the distractions.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: So especially when again, I'm not immune to any of this.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: When I know I need to work on something, I get out of my office and I'll I will go sit at a coffee shop or move into my house.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: My office is separate, so I will move into my house, but I changed the landscape, if you will, because that helps with just again mitigating the other environmental distractions or habits.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you can change your location, you can change the way that you're um approaching that work in that moment.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: I wrote my entire book, not the entire book, that's that's exaggeration, because sometimes I'd write it on an airplane or sometimes I'd be in my office.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, right.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: But where I mostly wrote it was Saturday mornings at a coffee shop.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: You probably read that in the book, because I found that became that was the environment where my brain knew, okay, you've got your latte, you got your laptop, you don't have anything else here, no client files, um, your kids are not here, and oh yeah, we are opening up the book and we are typing it.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: So changing environments can be very, very impactful.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Schedule a retreat date for yourself, for your business.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_03: Take yourself somewhere for that retreat afternoon or day or weekend, if that's something of interest to you to work on it.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I was gonna mention one other piece about the procrastination, the environment.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and I think it's just uh, oh, the future self.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's what it was.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: I do talk a lot in the book about the future self, the future you and being kinder to the future you.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: So again, in that pivotal moment we talked about about 10 minutes ago, of like, oh, did that email take me off course and now I can't work on this big project that I'm avoiding or procrastinating on?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: In that pivotal moment, in that pause, think about the future you.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's really hard for us as humans to think about the future me next week, next year, next month, five years.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's on par for what we're talking about right now, Ben.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: But we can think about the future me at the end of the day.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll often challenge my clients when I know it's something that they're procrastinating on.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: I will say, when you're commuting home tonight, let's assume driving just for the sake of our conversation.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: When you're driving home tonight, do you want to be the person who how will it feel to have spent an hour on that thing?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: We're not even talking about getting it done.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're just saying spending an hour on it.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then usually they can put into words the feeling that that would be.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: How would it feel if you're the kind of person that didn't work on it?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they can very clearly put into words because they've been there so many times.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remind myself in those moments, because again, I am not immune to this.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do I want to be the Sarah at the end of the day that when I locked my office and I've done this, I go, really proud of you, Sarah?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't want to work on that and you did.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: And like that's all it is.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's that moment where I hear the voices in my head acknowledge that I took that pivotal moment and I still chose to do the harder thing and the impact that it made.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think maybe I use use those powers for for evil, not good in in this case.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I uh often say that you know, I'm not gonna handle something because that is future Ben's problem.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tomorrow that's tomorrow Ben's problem.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh be nicer to future Ben.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there I should be nicer to future Ben, but also there is something a little freeing too about saying, look, I I'm not gonna handle that right now.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: I will handle that later, and it will be important, you know, be just as important than it is as it is right now.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not recommending that approach to anybody, however.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's there's an appropriate time for that for that um methodology as well.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I do think it could be something like going back to delegation, sometimes not being available, it will resolve itself.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_03: So there are times where I'm like, don't answer them right away.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like let them find the solution.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: And in that case, that's a problem for future Sarah or future Ben to deal with.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: If it still comes back to me tomorrow, then so I think there's an appropriate time for both, but in um what we're talking about and making progress on your forest, your landscape, I think it's an opportunity to be kinder to the future you and think about how that person's gonna feel when you do stay on track and you do prioritize that.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's let's talk about you.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about getting to know you a little bit.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell me something that's not on your LinkedIn or website profile.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Something about you.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I'll share two things that are not on LinkedIn that I think are just interesting.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, one was I did grow up a competitive ice skater, and a lot of people don't know that because I don't ice skate anymore.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I was on team skating, uh like synchronized swimming.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: Now it's a more popular sport, but I did it largely in the 1990s, and we traveled all over the US competing um in team figure skating.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something interesting.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the second interesting thing is in college, I studied abroad for a summer in Moscow, Russia.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: How's your Russian?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: Not very good.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: I can say like Vva uh Pujosta.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm probably mispronouncing it.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can do a little bit, but um, if anyone is native Russian speaker, they're probably like, oh she is butchering all those words.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, my apologies.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: We all try our best.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been 20 past years.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um well that that's what this is about.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's about putting your putting you on the spot.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it it is funny though.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: You you you should come down.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: We we're I I'm at the uh at the rink all the time for the kids, and we we do see the uh this the synchronized uh figure skating uh uh people out there all it pretty often now.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a thing.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: Fun fact that is the rink I skated at.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: If you're talking about the one off 10th and 11th Street, that was the one I skated at.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: A lot bigger now, but it's they they expanded it.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, um well, any any given day I'll be there.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so well we all improve ourselves over time.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I do it a lot through reading.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I know what you know I've been busy reading lately.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what is it that you're reading?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh really great question.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I just finished, and I I have a new book I'm reading now, but I just finished Remarkably Bright Creatures by uh Shelby Van Pelt.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: Have you heard of this one?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think so.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent read.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: I picked it up on Friday in Atlanta and I finished it yesterday, which um, depending on people's speed of reading, I'm not so fast just because I can't sit and devote a long period of time to reading.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: I have to really just pick up, put down a lot with kids and the business and everything.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I rushed through that book.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: It was so good.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I am currently now reading um Eight Rules of Love by Jay Shetty.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: He was a former monk, um, and now he's a a speaker on love and mindfulness.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I I'm only about 10 pages in, so I don't have a large comment about that book, but that is what I'm currently reading.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for sharing that.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_03: And Ben, I do have a um a shameless plug for a moment.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: So um I run an unofficial book club.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um in 2019, I created a goal for myself to read 19 books in that year because I wanted to be the kind of person that chose a book over doom scrolling and things like that.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then I achieved that goal and I achieved that goal each year.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2023, I um at the end of the year, I went on social media and I just invited anyone who wanted to join me.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can read whatever you want, whenever you want.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I just sent out a pacer that year for 2024.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was two books a month.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I would send a pacer on the 15th and then the last day of the month saying, Did you read one book, two books, three?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this community has grown.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: So now in 2026, we're reading 26 books in 2026.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's a total free group to join.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I just send out a PACER every Thursday.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: So January 1st, January 15th, because 2026 books, 52 weeks in the year, every two weeks on the Thursday, um, you should have finished a book if you want to be on track.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the community that I have grown um reports to me, even if they don't hit the target of 26 books, I hear I read more than I used to.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love the fact that your your book club is not telling us what to read.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: I let people know if you need a catch-up book, read Dr.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: Seuss.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't matter.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: There are no rules.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's just whatever.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: If if you want to count an audiobook, an audiobook counts.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to count a podcast that you listened to that was three hours long, count it.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then we just send out that tracker.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: So if anyone is at all interested, they can just email me um Sarah at firm hyphenfocus.com and I'll add you to the group.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's not your thing, you can leave the group.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's no pressure, there's nothing to join or anything.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I I uh I worry about those people who are planning on sticking around till 2052.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be uh that'll be a lot.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it also makes me think, gosh, you know, Dr.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Seuss Dr.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Seuss is quite worthwhile if you've ever doom scrolled and saw the uh wrapping videos of Dr.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Seuss.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's oh okay.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but also I mean Dr.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Seuss is is pretty um you you can you can stand to think about that stuff a little bit.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um in any case, you've already kind of done it, but you if you want to be found, where can people find you?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so email address, I'll just repeat it just in case.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's Sarah S-A-R-A-H at firm focus.com.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: LinkedIn, Sarah Tatlow.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_03: The book is on Amazon or its website is perfectlyproductive day.com.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's got some other information about the book as well as a link to be able to buy it on Amazon if you are inclined to do so.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think you'll enjoy it.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to join the book club, again, you can just send me an email.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's the best way to sign up for that as well.
• 56:17
  unknown: Awesome.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I enjoyed it very much.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I've enjoyed having you here on the podcast very much.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sarah.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Ben.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Always a pleasure.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wrap.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to Max Value Podcast.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode provided any interesting information, hit that subscribe button, smash like, and drop a comment below.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ben Town with Town Advisory, and I'll catch you next time.