Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Nostalgia For Your "Prime" And How This Impacts Men And Women

Transcript

Nostalgia For Your "Prime" And How This Impacts Men And Women · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
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  Today we're going to talk about nostalgia for your prime and how
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  this impacts relationships. And before we do that, please do
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  subscribe. Most recent subscriber episode
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  was about why your dirty talk fails to impress your wife.
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  OK, so. And there's also 150 other
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  subscriber episodes if you subscribe.
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  OK. So point being, there are many
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  things that I work on with couples.
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  This is the point of the whole Doctor Psych Mom show.
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  And some of them, you know, haven't really been discussed
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  openly, even if you are in your own counseling.
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  And So what I do is I try to talk to you guys about things
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  that I've seen, dynamics that I've seen impact couples that
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  are a little bit more, you know, obscure than maybe ones that you
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  have heard of before. And of course, they all go back
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  to similar underlying issues, but different ones resonate with
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  different people. So here is one that I have seen
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  where people, especially as they get to midlife, are very
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  nostalgic, and they're particularly nostalgic for what
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  they perceive as the prime of their life.
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  Now, this could be different for different people, right?
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  So for a lot of men, this was when they were getting laid a
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  lot. This was honestly when they were
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  having a lot of sex in their 20s.
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  Now, for a lot of women, there's some women that feel like that,
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  that think that that was like the most fun time of their life
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  is when they were dating a lot in their 20s.
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  But often women feel that it was when they had children, little
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  kids like a baby or when they were pregnant.
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  So when people feel that there was one specific time in their
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  life that was really awesome and and really made them feel their
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  best, they frequently feel bad that that time is over, right?
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  I mean, that only makes sense. So then let's look at
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  differences for men and women. So men tend to be very nostalgic
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  about times that they felt their most independent and sexual
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  really, you know. And women, as I've said, they do
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  that too. But then once they have kids, a
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  lot of times that supersedes that other time.
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  So they remember basically their their sex and the city type of
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  years of like dating and whatever.
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  And some women don't have that, by the way.
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  Some men don't have a time of feeling like they were in their
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  prime either, honestly, and I'll, I'll get to that soon.
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  But let's say like a woman who had fun in college.
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  She had a couple boyfriends, she had a couple hookups.
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  She felt very attractive and and everything was fun and
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  independent and she moved out, did a little, you know,
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  whatever, had a little roommate situation and went out and
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  partied and worked in her 20s. And then she got married and had
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  kids. So yeah, she feels nostalgic for
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  that time of being young and fun and and free.
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  But then if she has a baby, you know, that could be very hard.
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  Of course you could have postpartum and the transition to
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  having a baby could be very hard.
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  But then let's say she gets to 40.
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  You know, a lot of times she looks back at, she may look back
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  at 2 primes, you know, the one of being in your 20s but the one
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  of having a baby or multiple babies.
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  But often for women, what I've seen is that the one where they
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  had babies is kind of considered the best time of of their life,
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  you know, and this isn't all women, of course.
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  Some women thought having babies was very terrible and hard and
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  they couldn't wait till they got older.
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  And the prime that they miss is, you know, being young and free.
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  And you can see this in the show.
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  Fleischmann Fleischman something Fleischman in love maybe.
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  I I don't remember. Fleischman was the title and it
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  was on Hulu and there was 1 character who had moved to the
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  suburbs a woman and she really missed being young and free and
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  that was one of the the storylines but the the point
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  being that men. I've not seen men as often as
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  viscerally upset by the children growing up because they thought
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  the time when the kids were little was kind of their prime
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  of life. And there's super pragmatic
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  reason for this, which is that women are more often stay at
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  home parents and more often have a part time job.
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  During those years, I've myself only saw like 10 clients a week
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  when my kids were very little. And so that was only across two
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  or three days or after they were asleep.
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  And so most of my time was with the little kids, right, Was with
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  the babies. And I had three under 3 1/2 at a
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  certain point. So the prime of my life, there
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  was more years that I had little kids than then I was single in
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  my 20s, you know, I mean there there were just more years and I
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  was with them for for a lot of time.
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  So if you are working as most men are, you know, during the
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  time when the kids are babies, you're working in a panicked
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  kind of way a lot of times, 'cause you have all these
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  dependents all of a sudden. And this leads, of course, to a
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  lot of empathic ruptures. I talk about this a lot, the
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  young mother stage and why to come home early from work.
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  A lot of women feel very alone during that time where the man
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  is focusing on career, but you know and and avoidant men
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  mishandle this more, you know, and throw themselves wholly into
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  work without even like calling home.
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  And and this was also, you know, this this also is not as
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  relevant now that men, as I've said in my recent podcast, young
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  working men are condescended to the way stay at home moms used
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  to be. So now men are definitely
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  expected to have a second shift when they get home, and possibly
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  to have a second shift during their first shift where they're
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  supposed to somehow work and take care of kids at the same
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  time if they're telecommunic. But the the point being it it is
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  hard to nostalgize a time where with kids when you weren't
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  around as much. And so men are in that
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  situation, whereas women frequently had their entire day
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  with the little kids. And so this turns into, no
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  matter how it was at the time, it could have been very
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  stressful. But it turns into this, like,
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  shining time, you know, where they were very happy.
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  And for for many women, this is what they were trained for.
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  This is what they were told since they were little. 01 day,
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  you'll have your own kids. One day you'll have your own
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  babies, you know, And little girls like to play with babies,
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  and they like to think about that.
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  I have two girls, right. And they talk so much about,
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  like, baby names and what they're going to name their
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  babies and stuff like that. And they did this more when they
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  were younger than now. And they're turning into
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  teenagers. But they still think about it.
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  And I don't think my son has ever mentioned what he's going
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  to name his baby. You know, I mean, it's just like
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  kind of different. And I remember myself thinking
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  about it when I was little. Oh, I'm going to have babies one
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  day. I'm going to how how many, you
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  know, do I want boys or girls? And like, what would I do, you
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  know? And and it's it's just more
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  common with little girls to think like that and to play with
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  dolls and and all of this. No matter how many dolls little
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  boys have, most of them, they're not as as interested.
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  That's not all little boys not getting into any bullshit like
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  that. But I know I had two little
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  girls and a little boy and he just wasn't it.
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  He had dolls everywhere and he just wasn't as interested as
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  they were. You know He wasn't interested
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  really at all. But but the point being men are
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  not trained that the best years of your life and the entire
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  meaning of your life is when you're going to be a young dad.
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  They're just like not thinking like that.
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  They don't picture like taking a baby to the park as like the
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  summation of like their what what the best thing in life
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  would be. Whereas a lot of women do.
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  Men think it's going to be, you know, getting out on your own,
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  making money, you know, like be living on your own, being
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  independent, being free, doing whatever the hell you want,
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  travelling, doing whatever hobbies you want.
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  And so their 20s, when they're able to do that is frequently a
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  time that and and sleeping with women like, you know, getting
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  late. So when they can do that in
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  their 20s and that's frequently the time that they look back at
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  with a lot of nostalgia. Now, how does this manifest in
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  people having unhappy marriages? Well, the woman gets very, very
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  sad about the kids growing up and the guy doesn't understand
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  why because he's never thought about it.
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  Like that was really the pinnacle of her happiness in
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  life. And instead he says things that
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  to her sound very insensitive. Like, Oh well, now we have more
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  time to do what we want and she's like dipshit, What I want
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  to do is still be hanging out with five year old, you know?
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  And then of course, the man, the only, the closest that he could
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  come to getting back to his prime is if him and his wife
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  have a lot of crazy sex that could somehow replicate, you
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  know, how life used to be when he was young and unattached.
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  You know, if he pops a Viagra and whatever, he could still
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  have the same heart on and he still wants to, you know, use it
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  with the with the same enthusiasm.
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  And she's mourning the loss of, you know, the children and and
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  earlier ages. And I have a post why your wife
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  gets so sad about the kids growing up.
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  And I have numerous podcasts about stuff like that too.
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  So when I see couples that are in their 40s and 50s, they're at
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  like completely different stages of life and it's because they
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  are yearning for their youth, as is normal to do.
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  And I have a podcast. Why People hate aging more and
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  more. Now remember, I mean, I just as
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  an aside, like, women used to have like extended networks of
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  of family that lived around them.
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  So if you missed having a baby, then you could just take care of
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  your sister's baby or your cousin's baby or somebody's
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  baby. And honestly, it might turn you
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  off. Babies, too, like, not turn you
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  off. But you know what I mean?
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  Like, the reality of having a baby moment to moment is not
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  like the nostalgic thing that you picture, you know?
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  So. So it's the presence of more
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  people in your network and ability to interact with more
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  young children sometimes makes people realize, oh you know
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  what, I'm glad that that time is over.
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  It was good and now it's done and now I could do other things.
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  But if you don't have those, if you don't have little kids in
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  your orbit, then you get even more nostalgic, right?
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  And and on the on the male perspective, if they keep
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  watching a bunch of porn, then they think that they could be
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  out there screwing all sorts of women all, you know, six ways
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  from Sunday if they were still single and they don't remember
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  that porn isn't real life, you know?
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  And they couldn't be, you know, that's just not a thing.
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  You don't walk out onto a porn set the minute that you divorce
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  your wife when you're 40, unless you're like, super, I don't know
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  what a porn star, literally. So right.
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  At the same time, in their 40s and 50s, the woman is kind of
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  she's going through perimenopause.
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  She's sad about her youth, isn't there.
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  Her fertility isn't there. This isn't all women again.
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  Some women are glad to have the kids gone because they were, you
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  know, stressful and they want to do their own thing and they're
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  dropping estrogen levels mean that they don't feel like
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  caretaking and they don't remember that positively, even
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  if they did like it. But also men feel that it's
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  their last gasp to have anything like the freedom of their youth.
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  And now with the children are not around as much.
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  They they're gonna have this amazing, adventurous sex life
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  with their wife whose hormones are dropping at that very
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  moment. Like it literally can't happen
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  like that. Like it doesn't make any sense,
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  you know. So this is, of course, Oh, and
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  then I promised you, I would say, what about the people that
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  didn't have a prime? These are the late bloomers, you
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  know, So a lot of people feel that.
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  A lot of men feel that they did not get to have any sort of
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  sexual playground in their 20s, 'cause they were not confident
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  enough or they got married too early.
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  And many women regret the exact same thing.
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  I have so many women in my office that slept with just like
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  one guy or a couple of guys, and they're like, what the fuck was
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  I doing, You know? Like, what did this religion
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  like thwart me? Or however I was raised sex
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  negative? I could have had a bunch of fun,
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  but instead I just like was taught to get a stable guy and
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  get married. And that's what I did.
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  And I like, didn't get any chance to really have any
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  freedom. So a lot of women, by the way,
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  when they get divorced, they do have a sexual playground because
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  they never got to do it in the 1st place, which is what I keep
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  always saying to men is, you know, like if it don't, don't
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  extol women who have limited experience.
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  You know, you have limited experience.
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  And then it's not like they're like, oh, great, you know, now
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  I'm going to sleep with one man for the rest of my life.
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  Yeah, some of them say that, but others of them don't say that.
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  You know, the they say, oh, I wish I would have actually
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  explored the way that my own teenager and young adult
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  children feel free and they have lots of boyfriends or
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  girlfriends or whatever they do and they travel and they do
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  things on their own, man. I wish I would have had that
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  confidence and that freedom. So then in these cases, people
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  have nostalgia for a prime that they never had, you know, or on
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  the baby front. If a woman had postpartum or she
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  didn't feel supported by her husband and she was stressed out
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  all the time, or her in some way, like that stage of being a
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  young mother did not go well because she did not have
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  support. She was stressed all the time.
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  She did a lot of stuff. She regrets.
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  She yelled at the kids too much. Then she has nostalgia and
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  wishes for a do over, you know, she has a nostalgia for a time
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  that didn't really exist. And many of those women become
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  obsessed with being a great grandparent, you know, because
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  then they feel that they could finally be loving and and
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  relaxed and helpful with children in a way that they
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  didn't have the bandwidth to do when it was their own children.
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  So anyway, what can couples do in this situation?
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  Obviously couples therapy can help.
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  It can help you figure out why you're trying to get exactly
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  opposite things from each other. Like, she's literally looking at
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  the baby pictures of the kids and saying, why don't we move
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  closer to where she's going to grad school so that, you know,
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  we can be really helpful. And he's thinking, like, now's
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  the moment that they're going to be, like traveling alone and
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  having more sex. Like, literally as as her vagina
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  is is like hurting because she's going through menopause, You
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  know, he's thinking, now's the moment, you know, because the
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  kids aren't in the house. This isn't all people.
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  Of course. Many people have a much wider
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  perspective and understand each other, you know, much different.
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  But these sorts of competing antithetical to one another
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  goals characterize people who you know do not understand
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  themselves and their partner as deeply as they could and need to
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  talk through some of this stuff. And couples work need to
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  understand what each each of them thinks for the the rest of
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  their life is going to look like.
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  And I have a post on this discussing future or upcoming
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  life transitions can make you closer as a couple.
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  And some of those are like, how do you feel about like this
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  stage of our life? Like what do you want old age to
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  look like? Like what?
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  Where are you at in terms of how involved do you want to be as a
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  grandparent? You know, what are your goals
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  for this stage, etcetera. So having these sorts of
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  conversations can bring people a lot closer because then they
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  don't have as many misatunements where like she is nostalgic for
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  a different stage and often has a lot of empathic ruptures to
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  resolve about him not being around during that stage.
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  And he has empathic ruptures that he feels about that.
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  They now he's realizing that they may never have the sex life
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  that he had wanted that was supposed to either make up for
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  or echo, you know, the sexual experiences that he did or
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  didn't have as a younger man. And this is also important to do
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  an individual work. If you find yourself fixating on
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  that your you want your life to be at an earlier stage or you
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  want somehow currently to approximate what it could have
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  been, then you know, then then that's that's also women who
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  have trouble with their kids getting older, you know, and men
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  who have trouble with their wife getting older.
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  Because when your kids get older or your wife gets older, who's
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  that mean gets older too? You, you know, and therefore you
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  have less time and opportunity to make things different or
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  perfect. There are people that are
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  fixated on making their life optimized and perfected and that
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  that's a fool's errand, 'cause there's no such thing, you know,
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  and and you need to work on accepting the what is and
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  figuring out how to make your life fulfilling in reality, you
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  know, versus having an overly idealized, nostalgic based view
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  of of what it's supposed to be. All right, well, I hope this was
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  interesting for you guys to listen to and open up some new
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  things to think about. As always, if you need a couples
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  therapist or coach or anything like that, think about me and my
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  practice, Best life, behavioral health, and I'll talk to y'all
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  soon. Have a great day.