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Episode 23 with Dennis @ibd_i_became_dennis · Tom's Hirschsprung's Podcast

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You are listening to Tom's Hirshprung's Podcast, where our provide a look into the
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remarkable experiences of the most inspiring people around Hirshprung's disease and sports. Hello and
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welcome to episode twenty three of Tom's Hirshprung's Podcast. With me this week is
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the founder of line colitis, Dennis, and we are going to talk through
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his journey of IBD, how he fell before and after remission, as well
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as a special event coming up later in the year that we're going to talk
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about. So stay tuned to the end of the post and we're going to
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talk about a very special event and later on. Dennis, welcome, Thank
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you for having me not a problem at all. Now, as we said
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we will, we jomp straight in and we'll start just pre diagnosis, and
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we were talking a little bit off air about about everything to pre diagnosis,
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post diagnosis, remission. We'll go through all of that. Yeah, but
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before you were diagnosed with IBD, how were you living your life? I
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was actually not really living my life. It was more like my life was
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living me. I was a fairly young kid when I was exposed to trauma,
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and instead of really focus on a trauma and working with a trauma.
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I run away from trauma with different vices and different dopxic behaviors. Advices like
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alcohol, cocaine, and wheat were like my daily daily doses of vitamins if
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they're still to say, just to stay away from everything that I feel and
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side of me. And if that didn't work, I worked three jobs a
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day and just do not be around my own thoughts. So I was constantly
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running away from everything that I felt and everything that happens to me in my
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past. Thank you very much for sharing that and the problem that's yeah,
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no, it's very much a story that you tend to hear with it with
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a lot of trauma events. Not that I'm a specialist in any of it
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per se, But that's sort of running away and finding other vices as such
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is historic column from what I him when I talk to other people. So
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we're talking sort of pre diagnosis around So of twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen am
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I writing in saying that, But in nineteen twenty twenty I was, and
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twenty nineteen I start having stomach issues and stuff like that, and I started
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feeling there was a problem. But again with everything that was going on.
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I was not really looking into it until the twenty twenties, to be honest.
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And February, me and my best friend went to a party, his
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birthday party actually, and we did a load of things we shouldn't do,
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and I thought I would have was having a hangover, but it was actually
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way worse. And it lasted for five days where I lost a lot of
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weight, need to go to the toilet many times, and all the other
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pupped up symptoms, and that caused me to go to the doctor. Those
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girl doctor gave me antibiotics, which makes way worse than it already was.
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And after three days of that, I lost about ten kilograms and just that
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eight days that I was very sick. And then I went to the hospital
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and then they said I have ulcerave coliitis. And I had no idea where
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it was. I thought it was some Harry Potter spell or something, and
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I had no idea how to work with it or whatever, and just felt
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like my life was falling apart when it said the symptoms and I will never
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be the same, And it took me quite a long time to get out
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of that victim minds as well, so when when you diagnosed, was there
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sort of a wanting to find out more? Because I tend to find when
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I when I talk to people who are diagnosed with whether it be ulcerated to
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colitis, colitis, Crohn's, ib d ibs first, not necessarily hirshbrums.
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They fall into two camps. They kind of either A that really really want
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to know more and really want to find out everything they can, or B,
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which is kind of the camp I was in for a long long time.
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It's just kind of I know I've got it, but I don't really
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think about it or anything. Did you fall into any of those two camps?
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Yeah, As somebody who ran away from problems a lot in my life,
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there was no idea that I would really look it up or something.
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So I fell into being the victim that I didn't deserve this, and that
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why this happens to me was something I said and I had no idea how
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to come over it or what to do with it, to be honest,
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and I just let the doctors do whatever they think. That was the best
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thing, and that set me apart for a little while. Definitely. Yeah,
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So if we talk about fitness as well, because now you are very
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very very heavy into fitness. Yeah, very Yeah, it's which which is
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fantastic, and there's so many m we'll talk about your Instagram later on,
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and there's so many motivations of things. I absolutely love it. I think
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you did. Thank you very much, Thank you three So pre ib D,
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Yeah, were you into fitness at all or is this more being brought
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on because of the diagnosis. I was into finished, I was not into
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health. So what I mean with that is I did love fitness, but
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I didn't watch my film My Figure or whatever. I just want to do
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fitness and yeah, a lot of martial arts, just I think to compensate
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for the insecurity that I had in my life. I think that is really
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the honest answer. Yeah, most definitely. I again, talking to qual
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a few people who have been diagnosed with ib D ib S sorry clitus clitis
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croons. They then start to think, right, Okay, if I've been
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diagnosed with this, is fitness going to help me, which, of course
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it's never going to do. It's pretty hard being fit to be healthier,
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but they have seen tremendous results. I'm not I'm not going to sit here
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and say, oh, people have been cured because that would be totally the
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wrong way to go. But they have seen their symptoms improve dramatically. And
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when you say I was into fitness but not into health, and when when
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you were diagnosed with with ib ED, how did you start going about being
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more into health and health and fitness rather than just the fitness. Yeah.
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So for me, I think it took me six months to actually accepting that
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I was diagnosed, So it was six months of being I like to call
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it a victim mindset because I felt like it was the victim here. And
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watched the lot of Netflix in between hospital sessions and then between just better resting,
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And at some point I came up to a documentary about people who really
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changed their life again and really came up against the adversity, and I felt
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like, if they can do it, and they had similar passed like I
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have, I can do the same thing. I started reading and at some
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point I was like, Okay, if this, if my behavior wasn't healthy
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in the past, how can I make my behavior healthy now? And just
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because I was living in bed, I was like, okay, I just
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can easily. Because I was in the middle of Corona, I could easily
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buy me an online course about personal training and I will learn a lot about
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ill nutrition and personal training and fitness. I was like, Okay, I
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just gotta do that, and I'm just gonna give my all and when I'm
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healthy again, I can become strong again. But now I'm just going to
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focus on the knowledge about it and that helped me a lot with it fantastic.
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Do you do you remember what we documentary was called, but that was
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probably quite a while ago. It was quite a while ago, but I
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think it was called Titans, and it was with Rock. So there was
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a lot of people who overcame adversity with cancer or with with alcohol abuse and
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stuff like that who really changed their life and now they want to compete each
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other. And it was just so inspirational for me at that point because I
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was that low and it really helped me to get back on my feet again,
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to find and find the nutrition that works for me and find a healthy
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mindset for me. That I started reading books, which I never did in
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the past. Before I did, I never even touched the book in my
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life. I was not the best student at all. And yeah, it
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just clicked for me. It was just mide it switch that this was not
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the life that I wanted to live for the rest of my life. And
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if something needed to change, I was needed to change that needed to happen,
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most definitely. And I think you're right when your books aren't for for
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everybody. I know that I struggled to sit down and read, you know,
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more than sort of four or five pages before I think right, I'll
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go to do something else. But I think now with the way life is
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now, that there's so some more in terms of media that you can consume.
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There's obviously your Instagram video is a great a great way of doing that
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as well, but there's there's obviously books, there's video, there's pictures,
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there's there's all there's all sorts of things that you can consume. So it
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isn't if you think right to find out this thing, I've got to read
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a book and I've got to do this and that. The other is it's
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not necessarily the case, certainly not anymore. So yeah, no, I
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think that's that's fantastic. And so if we talk about so you you went
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into remission for ib D exactly no and sorry sorry, yeah, yeah,
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no, I mean remission for about three years. So absolutely fantastic and and
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I just wanted to talk just very briefly about So a few months after remission,
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you went to Prague or some friends took you to Prague, you know,
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talk a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So
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I felt like I was a remission, but I didn't felt good enough,
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and I felt like the symptoms would occur again. I was very insecure about
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and my friends saw that I was definitely doing better with putting the weights,
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getting back to the gym, but it was my own gym and my own
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house, so there was no reason for me to get out of the outside
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of the als. And they really were I don't want to say single me
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because we were really understanding. So not all my friends, but those two
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friends that I'm talking about right now were really understanding about my symptoms and stuff
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like that. But at some point they didn't sell the symptoms anymore. I
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didn't have the cinema, but in my head it's states that I had that
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symptoms. And yeah, at some point they say, okay, fuck it,
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we're taking you to Progue. I was like, I am not possible
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to go to Prague. You will be fine, we will guide it everywhere.
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Nowhere is we have a hotel, and the hotel have many bedrooms,
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and if we only stay in the hotel, we only stay in the hotel.
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We go there. It's ten hour drive and every couple of kilometers there
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is a toilet near you. Have we checked everything for you, you will
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be fine. And that really is my mind. And I had an amazing
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time in proput to be honest, it was great. Also, I could
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like eat everything I wanted and that was such a relief for me. And
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at that point I started believing that I was really on revision. That was
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the first time that I really felt like, Okay, I'm in the revision.
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Now I'm getting more healthy, I getting stronger. All right, this
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is my new life, and this health advice and all the knowledge that I
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had is really helping me, and I will stick to this program. Fantastic.
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Yeah, no, I think that's that's a really important point you bring
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up when when we talk about, you know, the physical side of health,
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and when when you go and see a lot of dots and they talk
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about the physical side of health, which is absolutely their job and they do
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a fantastic job doing that, but sometimes the sort of social emotional mental aspect
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probably gets left on the table a little bit, and having a community of
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friends, a few friends that that sort of understand or understand that they're wanting
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to help your condition, not trying to fix you or anything like that,
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but just kind of going, right, we really really want to help is
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just invaluable, I think in my eyes. And having obviously having your two
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friends there and obviously incredible people that said, right, we really want to
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help you, and we've planned all of this, all of this to have
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the other. It might not necessarily be having friends that go to that length
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and that street of booking a whole holiday for you and everything, but it
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might just be people, you know, sending you a message and just going
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kind of you know, you're all right dissed out the others anything happened due
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to help, and blah blah blah. So yeah, I think having a
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strong friendship, strong community is so so important, and that's kind of what
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I found a little bit being on Instagram as well. There are so many
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people out there who, you know, they're not giving medical advice, they're
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not saying you need to take this, do that, do the other,
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but they're just try and support each other. And I think that's that's incredible,
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And if we sort of touch on your Instagram as well. You started
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it sort of mid twenty twenty three roughly, I started with September. I
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actually started on my birthday September, so yeah, yeah, there was like
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I think the first post was on my birthday itself, So yeah, I
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started September because there's something I wanted to do for a long time, but
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I didn't know if I had anything to dark well, because I'm clearly remission,
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so I don't feel love the symptoms other than fatigue once a while and
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when I eat something wrong, I might have a little bit of diarrhea and
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that's it for me. That's like the biggest symptoms that I have. So
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for me, it was very difficult to have an understanding of what can I
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talk about, what can't I talk about? So yeah, it was a
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little bit of a rough belt, but a feeling I'm finding my way definitely
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with the motivational and as well as trying to connect as much people as possible
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just to motivate them that I've been where they are now and that I really
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want to just support them and what they are doing. So yeah, I
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think it's absolutely brilliant. I came across your Instagram quite a while ago and
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have a look at the the motivational and the videos. The videos are very
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well put together as well. I think they're fantastic. They look very professionally
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sure they are, which often helps, I find if you're trying to get
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a message across, having something that looks profession le done and has a really
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good messages is invaluable. And I think they're fantastic. I think anybody,
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anybody who doesn't necessarily have to be somebody who's got IBD or a stomach illness,
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but definitely come across Dennis Is at Instagram because it is It is fantastic.
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It's some really good motivational things, and especially if you are if you
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do have a stomach condition or if you're into fitness, they're really really good.
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And I want to talk about one thing in particular over there. When
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you reached fifty followers, you did fifty bress ups and then with one hundred,
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and was that sort of a challenge you thought, right, I'm going
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to do this or how did that come about? I was just like for
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me, showing showing strength is something that helped me and I'd like if I
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showed strength that they'll also help people. And I'm going to do the same
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with the five hundreds. So if from Elstone, I will do something.
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But it takes me who I think the I find it, but I'm not
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stressed about it. I'm just living my life and I just go about it.
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And my health is my first priority of course, and with that,
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I want to share everything that I go through. But with the five hund
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I might do five k. I don't know what I will do. Maybe
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I don't know. I have no idea yet, but we see that,
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we see why we get there. Well, Definitely, every milestone, I
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will celebrate my followers with the strength that I have that I hope with envy
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sick No. I've seen a lot of people who follow you also follow me
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as well, so we've got quite good engagement. And yeah, I think
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we've definitely got some of the best followers out there. There's some people who
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have appeared on this podcast who also follow you as well and engage with you,
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which I think is fantastic. And I think anything that we can do
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to try and build build a community, a motivational or a helpful positive community
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is definitely for the best. I'd like to talk as well, because there
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is another post on there the brillly Intrigue Me with your tattoos and how every
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tattoo that you have has a meaning? Do you go through just a few
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of those? Yeah, definitely, I love them, so definitely talk.
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We can talk about them. So you want me to talk about or you
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just absolutely okay. So the first start, the first one I started was
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when I was in the remission, and that was life is a beautiful struggle.
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So I have this one right here. So it was a deck of
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courds and a dices, So life a beautiful struggle alone just to words,
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meaning like it's a struggle. Definitely living when I is a struggle. It's
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hard as difficult, it takes many challenges, but I also bring growth and
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that's what brings the beauty for me personally. But still a struggle, and
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it will always be a struggle. If I decide not to check for my
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diet anymore, I will get back into whatever medicine I take, and I
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believe the medicine helps a lot, and I take my medicine I take to
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Laura, but the mess and alone will not do it for me personally.
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So if I go back to my old vices and go back to my old
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life, I will not be a remission for I think maybe a week.
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So therefore it's still a struggle and monetizing everything I eat and everything I do
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is a struggle. But it makes it very beautiful. It gives me the
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life. It gives me the gift of life for me personally. So that's
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why I put that tattoo on there. And also the cords is we got
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to work with the cars that we have until we have better cards. So
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in the beginning, I have very bad cards and I have no experience were
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helped. I have no experience with the mindset and stuff like that. But
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I keep trading, trading my cards and the whole poker game, and I
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keep doing that until I have, like for me personally, your royal flush.
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For me, this life that I live now is a royal flash.
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I absolutely love my life. I have very much gratitude for everything that I
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come across, even if challenges or growth, I have enormous gratitudes for it.
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And the dices just stands for you just have need a little bit of
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luck, just come across the right pages, come across the right people and
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just hope you have the luck that you will interpret and you will find the
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right things and the right things to do, and those work for you.
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It takes a little bit of luck, and I love a whole lot of
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determination to come a remission and start to love life again. So that was
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the first one I had, that one, I think in twenty twenty,
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twenty twenty two. And then this year miamated two artists, was like,
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all right, we were having a drink, meat and all alcoholic drink.
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He a normal drink because I also don't drink alcohol anymore, almost for a
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year now. So I'm very happy with that. It took me quite a
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while to stop alcohol, but go bless you. It's a pretty took me
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quite a while to really stop alcoholic. It happens fairly quickly that I reduced
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alcohol, but took me quite a while to really stop it at all.
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And since August last year, I quit it completely and I'm so happy with
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it. So going to be yeah, thank you very much. It's still
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a struggle, to be honest. Sometimes some days it's still struggle, and
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I think will always be a struggle, but I think it frees me so
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much more health than it creates so much more opportunity for me when I'm not
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acting like a drum bastard and meetings and stuff like that. Yeah, it's
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good not to be that. What it's good not to be that? Whatt
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isn't that? Yeah? Yeah exactly. So I only drink when I have
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something to celebrate. So my niece is born in April, and then I
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drink one glass of champagne and then acquit. So only when I have something
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to celebrate then I will drink something with my friends, but never alone anymore,
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because that's really when the demons come out when I drink a lot.
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Yeah so yeah, yeah, So that's when we started designing the old tattoo
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and we decided we decided to go with the gre god Atlas because he stands
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for enormous endurance with carrying this boulder on his arm the whole time, enormous
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determination and enormous strengths, and that's something that I've feel like we need with
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IBD as well. And after that, we decided to need to have a
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warrior of white mindset, sorry, a warrior mindset with living with IBD.
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And even though my warrior is completely bruised and has a very bruised plate and
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no weapons at all. He still stands so strong, he stins, he
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still stands tall, and even though our worse days, we have a tremendous
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amount of strength going with this condition. So that before I have the warrior
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on my on my arm, and also I have some buildings next to it,
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and the buildings collapsing the more you go above. So for me was
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really I need to break myself down, So I need to need to kill
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the person that I was to rebuild to the person that I am. We
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have to die a little bit to become a new person, to transform ourself.
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We can't go around it with the person that he was living our new
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life. That's just impossible. So therefore I have the buildings on my on
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me. I have also sick par with his magna and sick Porth magna means
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great ist for small beguineas. I didn't start off with running a five K,
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ten K or whatever k. I didn't start off with benching a tremendous
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amount of kilograms, and I didn't start off with just living this minds that
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I have right now. I start off with a five minute walk in my
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garden being completely exhausted, I running though the toilet. That's why I started
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off and I built from there and right now I feel like I have British
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and in me to do a lot of things. But I didn't start out
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that way, and we have to start small to become great, and that's
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really why I put that on me. And then I have also an alligator
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eye because alligators can see in the dark, and you have to see a
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little bit in the dark too, really really navigate through the symptoms and stuff
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like that, because it's a dark place when we first diagnosed. It's a
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very dark place where we don't stet what we are doing. Where we try
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something new, we go and in dark place and if we can't see the
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light in the dark place and we can navigate too dark, it's very difficult
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to see the light. So that's also why I have that too on me.
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Then there is also some sun and some thunders that meaning this too shell
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pass is I said that, I said a lot to myself when I was
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diagnosed, and it will pass. The storm will pass and the sun so
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I will call. And then the last part I have is my that to
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what this his logo, it's stands for Penelan swings and penelin swings just stands
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for time. And yeah for me, time we'll he'll all wounds together with
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some scores that I have right here. That the score, So time will
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hill all wounds, but the scores will remain. So that's my whole.
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That to explained. That's my hole I to explained and and a little bit
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of a shell lovely, thank you so much for that. And again for
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somebody like me who's like I don't have tattoos, I I love the exploration
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behind them. I love the story behind them, and I think that and
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I love the site that. I mean, I'm a big appreciator of art,
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and I loved seeing why things occur and how things occur, and and
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sometimes you see tattoos and you think, oh why why was that like that?
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And and then everything up like that. I love the fact that everything
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has a meaning and a purpose and a story. And so thank you ever
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so much. And I think that that is on your your Instagram page as
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well, whether you just go into a bit deep dive into into all of
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your tattoos, like how they're there and what have you. So that's stuff
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fantastic, Thank you so much for sharing and and all sort Towards towards the
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end of the this is talking the boat round. I'm very sorry for the
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dog. He decided what the gun on the podcast wanted to go. We
24:45
can have three people on the shows. I love dogs, not dogs are
24:49
fantastic and and and very why are growing with boats? Were crying your boats?
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He just wants to part of the show. There's no problem and just
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we boots. Towards the end, I wanted to talk about something big that's
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happening. Yeahmber, so you have and you're coming coming over to the UK
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for this. I'm not coming over this involving it. Sorry, not coming
25:21
out of What country is this in? Sorry? And Belgium? Where are
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the Elgin? Sorry? It's a hunt? Yes, sorry, I got
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that wrong. It's a forty two kilometer obstacle course taking place in September.
25:37
This is am all right in saying this is a charity obstacle course. It's
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no charity obstacle. But I admitted a charity obsticle course, right, yes,
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so the company that organized the organization really has nothing to do with it.
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It's just something that I do myself that I wanted to do for good
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sorty UK. Why I decided to do it for the gay because I met
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a lot of lovely people in the UK that are living in the UK with
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IBD. Also in the UK is all time high living with IBD, so
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I feel like these people can use them as much support as needed. And
26:11
I don't know anybody in Belgium. I don't know any charity in Belgium who
26:15
really stands with the people at IBD, and I feel like I have to
26:18
do it for the UK people. So I'm running for everybody at UK who
26:22
is blue right now, struggling with it, don't know what to do.
26:26
And I think Good Charity is a great a great advocac for IBD definitely.
26:33
That's why I chose them to really be my charity of my chosen fantastic,
26:37
that's fine. No, I can see where I've got my wires crossed now,
26:40
whether it's the UK and yeah, Belgium, Bay, Yeah, thank
26:42
you so much for that. And how is or how she? First of
26:47
all, how do you train for an obstacle core forty two kilometer obstacle cours.
26:52
Well, the first thing you do, you go into mirror and you
26:55
say you are insane and then you start with it. No. Actually,
27:03
actually I want to have a big as sellence, like not just a normal
27:07
channel another five k, no thank just the biggest sells that I could find,
27:11
because I want to represent everybody who's right now in a flare up,
27:14
who is struggling, who has fatigue, who doesn't know what to do,
27:18
because I'm gonna be honest with you. With the forty to kilime, I
27:19
have no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea I can train,
27:22
but I don't know what I'm training for. So there's no way for me
27:26
to knowing what obstacle with a car. And that really represents IBD for me,
27:30
like with IBD when you first diagnos, have no idea what's coming,
27:33
and the same thing like I know it's forty to kilime, so as long
27:37
as I know it's gonna be a long ass fucking run, it's I I
27:41
measured it's gonna be seven hours at least, so it's the seven hour run
27:48
and then is not included with obstacles with it, and I have no idea
27:52
what obstacles are. So the endurance that I need to have is the same
27:55
endurance that I need to have with IBD obstacles, I don't know what they
27:57
are, and the symptoms you don't know what they are. So that's why
28:00
it's for me. The personal is the best thing that I could find that
28:04
really represents IBD and really represents people who are fighting right out. Oh that
28:10
was my whole idea. And the Viking team is just something I really lost,
28:14
Like the Vikings are the most fierce wars there are. They are barbarians
28:18
and they don't give a fog their savages and that's just something I really love.
28:22
And we have to a little bit, have to be a little bit
28:23
of a service to really navigate through IBD. Fantastic, I do. I
28:29
love the representation as well, similar to the tattoos and tattoo story. I
28:33
love the fact that you're doing this. You're not just thinking, right,
28:36
I'm just going to do this. I'm doing this for a purpose and this
28:37
is why, and this is how I think it represents me. And I
28:41
think that's that's fantastic and I love that. In terms of sort of raising
28:47
money for IBD UK, do you have like a just giving page or do
28:55
you have somewhere where people can donate. I'm making one right now, but
29:00
once this is gonna be aired, I'm sure there's gonna be in my bio.
29:03
After I begin then I became Dennis on Instagram, so yeah, I
29:08
definitely have have one then, but right now I'm making one. It's due
29:11
for today, so yeah, definitely what have then deflit right by the time
29:18
this comes out, which will be Yeah, well this comes out thirteenth to
29:19
June, so well we are we are recording a little bit in advance,
29:26
but we'll come out, yeah, thirteenth to June, and yeah, definitely
29:30
have it up by then. You go to make sure you go to Dennis's
29:33
page, make sure you givefore you can. And yeah, I'm appreciate all
29:38
the support. I appreciate all the support, and only give what you can
29:41
give. If you can give anything, no worries to just share it and
29:45
just say with a lot of people, make sure that it's announced and I'm
29:49
sure everything will be fine, but don't give more than you can give.
29:52
That's the only thing I asked for. Definitely fantastic And and just very lastly,
30:00
where can people And I've probably mentioned it a couple of times before,
30:03
but where can people find you and find your story? You can find me
30:08
if I became and I became Dennis and on Instagram, And for now that's
30:12
it. But I'm also creating a podcast with Chris Roberts that I became Determined,
30:18
and I'm creating my own YouTube channel as well, where I will explain
30:22
my own story in a medieval story. So so there's gonna be a little
30:29
bit of a listening listening I don't want to say podcast, but listening episodes
30:33
of what I went through, but not in my in the current times,
30:37
but more in the medieval times, because I love the medieval stories and stuff
30:40
like that. It's going to be more of a fantasy novel where I more
30:42
explained what I went through in the terms of Colin Firestorm, which is the
30:48
person the character that I created. Brill you, that's absolutely fantastic. Yes,
30:53
well worked listen and yes, talk to Chris a few weeks ago as
31:00
we're recording now. This episode is coming out this week. So yes,
31:04
two Fantastic People will be a fantastic podcast. And then just last it for
31:10
me, I think it's to say best of luck with the obstacle course,
31:14
thankay very much. I will for sure do the best that I can,
31:17
so it's a water obstacle course, so there's a lot of times into water,
31:21
so also start swimming and do other things as well. Right now,
31:26
I'm not as much in the gym as I want to be because I'm training
31:29
much more for other things. So I'm training one day a week in the
31:33
gym where I do mostly compounds. I do every day body weights exercises,
31:37
just five exercises a day, just when I wake up. I do ice
31:41
baths just when I wake up as well, because there's water is going to
31:44
be cold as well, and ice bats are just great for your ultimmune system,
31:48
so that's also something I do. I do rock climbing also in preparation
31:52
of this, and I found a gym that really trains for obstacles. I
31:56
don't know what obstacles will be there, but if I train enough, I
32:00
might have enough knowledge about the obsticles that I can really endure. And I
32:05
just gotta make sure they have the forklum. I don't know if I'm gonna
32:07
run it, crawl it, better roll it, or just roll it in
32:10
general, or maybe I get told. I don't know, but I will
32:14
get to the for definitely, because I want to do this for everybody who's
32:17
fighting right now, and I don't want do anybody feel like they can do
32:22
anything because everything is in our power and even running for it to giliminitus and
32:27
my own definitely brilliant. And yes, we'll be definitely sure to follow,
32:31
follow your journey, follow how you get on hopefully seeing and I wish you,
32:37
wish you the best of obviously with the obstacle course and the podcast with
32:40
Chris and UH and for everything in general. Thank you ever so much,
32:45
very much, thank you for the opportunity, Thank you for listening to the
32:51
podcast. Find us on Instagram and Tom's Underscore persh Brun's Underscore podcast. Listen
32:58
to previous episodes on Spotify by searching Tom's Hirschbruns podcast