Latest / No Appointment Necessary / All Things Planning, Strategy and Coaching with Celia Champion

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All Things Planning, Strategy and Coaching with Celia Champion · No Appointment Necessary

• 0:00
  Michael: Welcome to another episode of No Point But Necessary, the place where you get all of your MSK strategy news and best advice.
• 0:07
  Michael: Um, today we've got a very special guest, Celia, Celia Champion, who runs Painless Practice.
• 0:13
  Michael: Many of you will know her.
• 0:15
  Michael: A few months ago I actually called her a workhorse.
• 0:18
  Michael: Was it a workhorse, Celia?
• 0:20
  Michael: It was.
• 0:20
  Michael: But I was thinking it was a good thing and a positive thing.
• 0:24
  Michael: Wasn't it a four horse?
• 0:27
  Michael: And I thought, oh, that's a positive thing.
• 0:28
  Michael: And she was like, no, that's bad.
• 0:30
  Michael: But see, the reason I called her that is that everyone, many people know her because you've been in the industry longer than most people have been in the industry, including finish it.
• 0:37
  Michael: And you've seen it all.
• 0:38
  Michael: Now I'm calling you old.
• 0:39
  Michael: This is not going to cut and start again.
• 0:41
  Michael: So she's very old, but she knows loads of stuff.
• 0:44
  Michael: Caesar's wise.
• 0:46
  Michael: And no, Celia's brilliant.
• 0:47
  Michael: And in fact, uh, I've got to say, in terms of HMDG and Celia, you were actually really, really helpful at the start of HMDG because you you put a lot of trust and faith in us and sent us clients.
• 0:57
  Michael: So we've got a lot to thank you for there.
• 0:59
  Michael: And now we share lots of clients.
• 1:00
  Michael: And so rather than me calling her an old battle axe, why don't you introduce yourself, Celia?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um I'm the old battle axe in the industry.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've been um painless practices uh 20 years old this year.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I joined in 2008 and um quickly went into partnership with my now retired business partner, James.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Completely fed in love with working with physios, osteos, caros, and anyone in the healthcare industry.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so kind of pivoted from a very standard coaching business that did exec coaching and other business coaching to 95% of my clients are now in this space.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do have a few other clients.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're often referred from, say, I've got a physio client whose husband started a gas engineering company, so I'm doing coaching with them, which is completely different.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I have like a few other like kind of interesting clients that just are not in the industry, but my my kind of passion is definitely in the healthcare sector, and I just feel like we can make a big difference with small changes.
• 1:59
  Michael: Let's talk about that, because I think um I was recently accused.
• 2:02
  Michael: First of all, do you like me?
• 2:05
  Michael: Everyone, all the coaches hate you, and uh and Celia likes me, so that's at least Celia likes me.
• 2:10
  Michael: Um but I think one of the issues is that everyone calls themselves a coach nowadays.
• 2:15
  Michael: And I think coaching is actually a very specialist, and whether it's non-exec work or coaching, I think it's very specialist, and I don't think anyone could just do it.
• 2:23
  Michael: I think yes, you have ideally experience in the industry.
• 2:27
  Michael: Um, you know, I wouldn't dream of becoming a coach in the farmer industry because I've got no idea about pharma.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:34
  Michael: But let's let's define what coaching is.
• 2:36
  Michael: So what is it and what do you do?
• 2:38
  Michael: Like how do you actually help people?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's really interesting because I think you know, you can go down down the route of being a qualified coach and get a qualification.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: There are so many different qualifications out there.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I kind of our business, it might have started very pure coaching back in the day where it was very self-directed learning, and you're kind of helping people get the solutions from their heads and you know, like kind of they know the solution and you're trying to help them that kind of use pure coaching.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Our business is definitely not just that anymore.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: There is a place and time for it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there is time where you are that sounding board and you're just kind of helping them gather their thoughts and think where are they going.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: But we very much now, because of our experience in the sector, um, you know, some people we are doing more consulting rather than pure coaching.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's a combination of that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm not a physio and I I know you know some some people kind of feel that you should have maybe run a clinic in the past to be able to work in the sector.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think, I think painless practice is a little bit unique because we've been in the sector for so long now, even though none of us at the starting point were therapists, we've all run businesses and we've had different experiences.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I've got someone that's well has run a group of clinics, but in the like kind of header reception focus.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then I've got someone that has been like more HR focused.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've got specialists in different areas that are transferable into the healthcare sector.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I I think that just having been in the sector and involved in various different organizations, working closely with, say, you know, like membership organizations and working closely with various different size clinics and and also just across different disciplines, I think we do have we have gathered a unique knowledge of the sector.
• 4:26
  Michael: I think so, so I'll just cut in there because I think it's a criticism I make.
• 4:30
  Michael: I I see people coming from outside.
• 4:32
  Michael: The bigger criticism is if you're gonna hire someone who's a physio and a coach, make sure that their business was a good business.
• 4:39
  Michael: Because I think that a lot of physio well, not just physios, actually, chiropractors, whatever.
• 4:44
  Michael: They have run a business, they've run an MSK clinic, it's not done very well, it doesn't make any money, but then they go into coaching because they see it as a quick win and way and a way to make money and at a higher margin because suddenly we charge, I don't even know what you charge, we charge a thousand pounds a month, and really 90% of that is profit, and suddenly becomes a a a nice um money earner.
• 5:05
  Michael: And I think if you haven't run a successful clinic, then you have no place in telling anyone else how to run a successful clinic.
• 5:12
  Michael: Um so that's the bigger criticism.
• 5:13
  Michael: I think, yeah, people should know about that.
• 5:15
  Michael: I would never dream of someone says, How what should my patient journey be?
• 5:18
  Michael: I don't know.
• 5:19
  Michael: Never clinic.
• 5:21
  Michael: That isn't my my ball game.
• 5:22
  Michael: But I think for you, yeah, yeah you have been around.
• 5:25
  Michael: Um I think that once, you know, once you've been doing it for 20 years, you've you've been there, you've seen everything, you've done it.
• 5:31
  Michael: And so I think that's that's important.
• 5:33
  Michael: So I think that's more about that you know, when you're choosing a coach, it is, and this is one of the topics I wanted to cover like how do you choose a good coach?
• 5:40
  Michael: Because there are really good coaches out there, there are some absolutely terrible coaches out there, and then there are those in the middle, and often the coaches, they say they're coaches, but they're more marketing companies that will yeah, we'll create all these funnels for you, and and you'll get 300 a month.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think one of the things that I'd say is if if the messaging is too good to be true, it probably is, and you'd probably be wasting your money.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and that does frustrate me that there have been, you know, in the kind of coaches in the industry that have really they they're fantastic at marketing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I can I mean, I know you guys do our website, and I know that we are due to do the update and stuff, but I'm I'm probably fairly rubbish at marketing.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: But are they you know, there are lots of coaches that are brilliant at marketing, and well that's an interesting point.
• 6:32
  Michael: So I don't think you are terrible at marketing, I think you do really good marketing.
• 6:35
  Michael: For example, your Therapy Expo is a really good example where we had a stand, so no criticism, anyone that had a stand, but you probably picked up more clients by just walking around and talking to people than you would have done with a stand.
• 6:48
  Michael: I'm sure that you sat there and thought, I could spend 10 grand on the stand or I could wander around, I'll I'll do just as well wandering around.
• 6:54
  Michael: So I think your marketing is fine, but it is a really important point to make, which is that there are a lot of coaches, and you're and most of you won't be aware of this, but they have gone on to a course which prescribes exactly what they need to do with their emails, what they need to do with their marketing, what their course should look like, what their coaching should look like, what the steps are, and you can pay 30,000, 40, 50,000 pounds for one of these courses.
• 7:19
  Michael: And so a lot of the coaches are not that they're not giving you information that is um original and things that they think through and that are custom to you or bespoke to you.
• 7:27
  Michael: They are putting you on a systematized program which was not created by them, which hundreds of other people are using.
• 7:34
  Michael: So, an example might be I'm sure everyone's seen these emails where it's like two paragraphs, two paragraphs, two paragraphs.
• 7:41
  Michael: It's just like it's this this kind of funny, it was uh designed by a guy from Ogavi, I can't remember the guy's name, back in the 80s.
• 7:48
  Michael: Right.
• 7:49
  Michael: And and as soon as you see that, you know someone has been on a course.
• 7:52
  Michael: If they then go on to, well, I won't say that because it's gonna be too obvious about 10 different coaches that are dislike.
• 7:58
  Michael: Um, you you can you can see what they do, and and I think that a lot of it is also about an upsell, right?
• 8:05
  Michael: So um it's like okay, you've completed mastermind course one, now let's do mastermind course two, and there's always a new thing.
• 8:12
  Michael: Actually, and I know this about you, you may charge people and do lots of work with them in the first three months, two months, six months, twelve months, but there comes a point where they're like, Can I just get a call a month just to just to chill out and have a chat?
• 8:24
  Michael: Because you've done all the work.
• 8:25
  Michael: There's only so much learning you can do in optimizing a new business that you can do, right?
• 8:29
  Michael: You're not that person that's like, oh, I've just got this brand new mastermind now, you have to pay me another thousand pounds a month.
• 8:34
  Michael: Um I think lots of people do think that first of all, the the coach they've got runs a physio clinic that makes millions of pounds.
• 8:41
  Michael: They look at their company's house, always say, and if there's five grand in the bank account, probably not the business you want to take advice from.
• 8:46
  Michael: But also a lot of it is systemi systematized nonsense.
• 8:50
  Michael: And yeah, those are the coaches you don't want to choose, basically.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's uh you know it's kind of hard sitting in that in that sector, and you know, you get that bad rap, and you're kind of sitting thinking, okay, now you've gone and spent 20 grand on this program wherever, and now you haven't made any money, you're struggling, and now I'm kind of saying, Well, I can do X, Y, and Z for you, and you can't afford my minuscule amount compared to to that.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really frustrating that people are taken for people are hoodwinked and they think that this is the best thing that they can do for their business.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then so it is, I think, for when you're choosing a coach, do your due diligence, like get references from people that have worked with a coaching company, speak to their clients, you know, get like take time to also then make sure that you're you're working with the right person, they understand your business, you have a good rapport with them.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's already, really important.
• 9:44
  Michael: Yeah, I think so.
• 9:45
  Michael: And you've got to like the person as well.
• 9:47
  Michael: Um, you know, that's really important if you're gonna take advice.
• 9:50
  Michael: But if they're due diligence, look at their business, is is it what you want?
• 9:53
  Michael: Also, any outrage claims there there's lots of formulas as well.
• 9:56
  Michael: 30 patients and 30 days.
• 9:57
  Michael: Anyone who's been on social media in the last couple of months, because all these coaches and everyone's struggling, you'll see the 30 patients, 30 days thing.
• 10:04
  Michael: It's like a thing that everyone says.
• 10:05
  Michael: The moment someone said that, just get like it's just on.
• 10:08
  Michael: But for me, it's actually really it makes me really less frustrated but more sad for pay people who are spending an awful lot of money, just like any MSK clinician listening to this, is sat there thinking about some dodgy clinician of some sort who treats people terribly, doesn't do proper evidence-based care, whatever the case may be, and then they see that patient, and you're like, I can't, but because you get dodgy people in every industry, right?
• 10:33
  Michael: It's not just coaching.
• 10:35
  Michael: Um, there are just as many plumbers or whatever the case may be.
• 10:37
  Michael: But it's actually sad when you see people take an advantage of or where they're spending the last penny.
• 10:42
  Michael: And but we've all been there, like we've all been skin or struggling where someone offers you a silver bullet.
• 10:48
  Michael: It's sometimes, no matter how intelligent you are, it's very tempting.
• 10:53
  Michael: It's tempting to take it.
• 10:54
  Michael: I can turn your business around.
• 10:55
  Michael: Pay me five grand, I'll turn your business around in six months.
• 10:57
  Michael: Well, they don't care because you you do that enough times, making five grand of ten clients a month, you're making fifty grand a month.
• 11:02
  Michael: So yeah, I don't want to get into bashing too much because there are some extraordinary and and really good coaches.
• 11:08
  Michael: And I think coaches for different areas of your business.
• 11:10
  Michael: Like, you know, there are certain coaches that I think are in a different party.
• 11:15
  Michael: You that there are coaches that are very good at the mindset side of things.
• 11:19
  Michael: And if you are struggling with imposter syndrome and really struggling mentally, I would say send them to Joe Turner.
• 11:25
  Michael: Like Joe Turner actually gonna ask her to start coaching a business on who wants to exit a four million quid.
• 11:31
  Michael: Just not.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where that's where Joe and I work, you know, she's joined painless factors as well.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's where Joe and I work really, really well together because you know, sometimes I might be more kind of on the business focuses.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, I am I do work with my clients on like kind of their you know their personal stuff as well because nobody's one-dimensional.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: But there might be some things, as you say, you know, if it's really something around imposter syndrome or something that Joe's really, really specialist at.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's fantastic to like we can we we work together with some of our clients.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we, you know, we have we both coach them.
• 12:02
  Michael: Yeah, and I remember back in the day there was and and still know Andy Hosgood was a a a really good coach recognition.
• 12:08
  Michael: He's a rough northerner who owns a clinic, he's a really cool guy.
• 12:13
  Michael: Uh, and he was like, you need to be careful you sent him, because he was very business metrics focused.
• 12:19
  Michael: He was not playing around, he was a kind of a you don't have a fucking business plan.
• 12:24
  Michael: Well, fuck off until you do have one.
• 12:25
  Michael: It was that much, it wasn't quite that bad.
• 12:27
  Michael: If Andy listens to this, it wasn't quite that bad, but um, he was certainly not someone who you send a delicate flower to.
• 12:33
  Michael: And I don't mean that.
• 12:34
  Michael: Uh and then there are, you know, there are other people you're you're kind of uh somewhere in the middle on all of this stuff, you're like a good kind of overarching person to send send people to because you you can pretty much deal in in in every area and cope with everyone.
• 12:47
  Michael: Um but you certainly wouldn't be called, I wouldn't describe as hardcore kind of slap people around and shout at them.
• 12:52
  Michael: That isn't your motivational kind of uh tool, really.
• 12:55
  Michael: Um let's get on to something else, which is uh planning and strategy.
• 13:00
  Michael: People always hear the words planning, they hear about strategy, and it's it's really interesting from my perspective because I can see clinics all the time and you ask them what their plan is or what their strategy is, and the first thing they say is, well, over the next 12 months, and I always think to myself, and maybe you disagree with me, I don't like 12-month strategies.
• 13:18
  Michael: I want to see a three-month, I want to see a two-month, a monthly strategy, I want to see you kind of, yeah, you can have an overarching one, but you don't wait to the end to kind of get um, and I think people don't, you know, I I would say, and I'm guessing here, but I would say at best 10% of the people I speak to cleanly that I speak to have forecasting in place, have proper financial accounting in place, have proper strategy in place, have any kind of planning in place for what if my physio leaves tomorrow, what do I do next?
• 13:46
  Michael: Or what if XYZ?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, one of the vulnerable points in your business that you need to have a plan for.
• 13:52
  Michael: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:54
  Michael: So what what are you what are your thoughts about, first of all, um, do you see it the same way that there's a lack of planning and and and strategy?
• 14:02
  Michael: And and then what do you suggest?
• 14:04
  Michael: Like what should people be looking at?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean that that's so so when clients come to work with us, that's the very first thing that we do.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: We have a planning session where we so they'll get some questionnaires and things to fill in ahead of time to give me the information that they can get on hand.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say to them, like, I'll maybe be asking for some financial information and then they're kind of like deer in headlights.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Don't don't worry if you don't have it, and we'll figure out what's important and how we're gonna go and get it.
• 14:30
  Michael: Let me ask a question percentage terms, how many people have all the financial information that you need?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: A very low percentage when I start working with them.
• 14:37
  Michael: Yeah, and that for the past 20 years.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I I'd say like probably I could probably even say a hundred percent of people can tell me what their turnover is.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: They can tell me every single month what their turnover is and how many patients they source through the clinic.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: But a very high percentage won't be able to tell me their profit.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I'm I'm actually in my master program at the moment.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've started talking to quite a number of my clients, like I've made it my mission this in January to warn them that this is going to happen.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: I want to do like a dragon's den with my clients, and I want them to be able to just cite like this is my turnover, this is my profit, this is my profitability, these are the splits between my services, this is the most profitable service, this is the least profitable service, but this is the reason why we're keeping the least profitable service because it puts money, it puts X amount into this service.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm really passionate about the numbers because I've I've I feel like a lot of people, uh so many people when they come and work with me, I'll they'll be telling me stories about a time when they've been caught out by the tax man and their corporation bullet has come and it is a fright to them and it's a shock.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that should never be a shock.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Our very like our entry system is that we do a strategy session, we look at like we look at the very long term.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the first questions is when do you want to exit one day?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: What does a clinic have to contribute to your financial situation when you exit?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't know that, you get recommended to go and see an uh independent financial advisor so that we can start knowing what that number is.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of one of the first questions we look at, and we look at, and then we look at the next three years.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: What does a business need to look like in over the next three years?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So what's the current reality and what does year one, two, and three look like?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we look at all the different areas.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we look at your turnover, your profit, your expenses, your owners' pay, your team around you, your marketing, your operations, your systems in place, your referral sources, your patient journey, like what do you have in your patient journey?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work for the patient?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: We look at absolutely everything.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: What is your current reality?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then we say, okay, so what do we want year one, two, and three to look like that is going to contribute to your bigger picture?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then we take year one and we put it into a very, very concise one-page plan.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: On the one-page plan, we've also identified what the heart of your business is, like what the purpose is and what the vision of your business is, and then what the top three things are that you want to be known for in your team journey and in your kind of client journey.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we got that, because that to me is like you've got to have that foundation in place when you start, when you start making decisions about your business, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, when you start just making decisions about what services you're going to bring on board, does that align with what your greater picture is?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you're bringing team members on board, they've got to align to how you're how you want your business to work.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't be bringing someone on board, let's say, that just isn't in alignment with the level of professionalism that you want or isn't really interested in developing and learning and growing and being innovative.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's important to identify.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just summarize for the next 12 months what the objectives are and then what the initial key results are.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the key results, like you say, we'd be looking and saying, what do we want to happen in a month or two months or three months?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like so, if our overall objective for 12 months is clinic growth, how much do we want it to grow by three in three months' time?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like in three months' time?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: What does it look like in a year's time?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the one-page plan, we've got our key activities of what they have to go and do between that call and the next time I speak to them.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's then really focused down into what are you doing in the next month?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's and and that's like our first kind of framework that we put in place.
• 18:15
  Michael: Yeah.
• 18:15
  Michael: So for a couple of things, a question.
• 18:17
  Michael: You mentioned about the vision and and who you want to be as a business and so on.
• 18:21
  Michael: I I reckon if I ask any of your clinic owner customers, give me a vision of the business.
• 18:26
  Michael: Tell me what you're all about, what's your vibe, what's your country?
• 18:29
  Michael: I I think they could probably do that.
• 18:30
  Michael: Um it may be an interesting test for you to do, which is ask their team whether they answer the question in the same way.
• 18:37
  Michael: Because more often than not, they don't.
• 18:39
  Michael: You should do that test because I think that's often where where where businesses actually fall down.
• 18:44
  Michael: Because I'm sat here, or you're sat here going, yes, and this is our business and this is our culture and this is our everything.
• 18:50
  Michael: And then you speak to one of the team and they've got no bloody idea.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: No idea.
• 18:55
  Michael: So it's very difficult sometimes to communicate that three people.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: There was um there's this a really great clip, I think it's Bob Killier, and he's um uh uh from Scotland, and he was talking about how he implemented this value system into this big organization, and um and he went around and he kind of said to um team members, like, you know, what are our values or and then he's like, Okay, so people aren't even being able to answer this.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at least how many values do we have?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, like nobody knew.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he was just like, okay, and he kind of like went back to his exact team saying, Oh, it's all very well that we've done all this, but like, and then he's like, Whose responsibility is it to communicate the values?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's and he's like having this out-of-body experience that says, Ah, it's you.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was speaking to a client um earlier, I'm running an in house workshop for them soon, and you know, we've kind of talking about their purpose and values, and she's all haven't really spoken about it to the team.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay, that's great, but we're gonna do that in the in house workshop now, where you know, this is this is what this is what the business is all about.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: But invite them as well to contribute.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think sometimes the best way of getting those, like if you haven't done them, it's if you've got you know if if it works with your team as it is at present then having them as part of developing those is really really powerful because then they take ownership of it but there's so many companies where I know and that's one of the things that I say to my clients as well is when we've if we're developing them together I want to be able to come into your clinic at any given point and ask anybody um what are what are the top three things that are most important that the patient should be experiencing when they come for this journey.
• 20:29
  Michael: Yeah and and we have that same issue I I am team don't know I'm gonna do this soon I I've got a few things and one of them is I hate that'll doism.
• 20:38
  Michael: So you know that'll do.
• 20:40
  Michael: That is not what we do as a business and and by the way well I think all of these apply to all businesses doesn't matter what business it is but certainly to clinics.
• 20:47
  Michael: But anyone who has that attitude of that'll do I don't like that isn't what we're about and then the other one is I want you to treat that business like it's your dad's business.
• 20:55
  Michael: And I guess for I want you to treat this person like it's a family member.
• 20:59
  Michael: Because the you know your customers are so incredibly important and no one should be working with a customer if they weren't going to do the same thing for their mum or their brother or their dad or whoever and that's really important to me.
• 21:11
  Michael: So I always think when I'm working with a client they ask a question I always think would I give that advice to my best friend?
• 21:17
  Michael: Is that the service I give to my best friend and those two key things and the final one is look after their money like it's your own.
• 21:25
  Michael: So it's very easy as a marketing company or as a coach actually to say look spend a thousand pounds spend five thousand pounds but these are ordinary people they're not like the big conglomerates and the investors it's an ordinary person if you take a thousand pounds you think about even your most successful clinics you take a thousand pounds off of them and you waste it that's actually money into a pension that's money for a holiday that's money for a kid's education.
• 21:47
  Michael: So I think for me those are the three strong things that I and maybe I'll do that test and ask everyone in the team because you should do it uh a few times yeah I think you've got to communicate it to your team because it's no good just you know um because otherwise everything is always top down you've got to have everyone working to that same standard.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then going back to the planning thing the other the other big piece of what what has to happen quite soon on is getting the financials in order.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of a lot of time when people come and work with us they will kind of give their their accountant all the information at the end of the tax year and then a few months later they'll find out if they've made a profit loss and what their corporation tax is.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we get a you know we kind of really recommend having a an accounting package for most companies.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean if they are smaller clinics we can get away with an Excel spreadsheet to start with but generally going into having QuickBooks or Zero or any of those kind of things straight like quite soon on because ideally I'd like to have real time information but at the very least by the 15th of every month you should know your profit for the last month.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then and we also often implement a cash flow system called profit first where you just have different pots.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're putting away your corporation tax every single month.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: You're putting away maybe your owners pay you've got maybe got a profit pot.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: For like one of my clients she's a speech and language therapist every year she spends about 12k on like resources and things and so that was always a stressful time of a year and so now she's got a pot every every month a thousand pounds goes in and then come August September when she has to get all these new resources the money set yeah I think that's really important because when when we started we had this we had dodgy well not dodgy but just didn't care too much.
• 23:29
  Michael: Now and when we change it changed our business we have a spreadsheet on online so Google Sheet has about four different uh tabs but the main one gives you every bit of information real time what's our profitability this month what what's that done to our corporation tax we even have a thing at the end which is your cash position at the end of the year if everything's stay the same versus and I can throw in I want to hire someone for 50 grand it will tell me exactly what that's about mass insurance and so on.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And until you have that information you you are not running a business right unfortunately you know because then you're often running the business depending on cash in the bank.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had someone come to me who was in trouble because they had cash in the bank from selling a lot of packages and then they bought equipment like stock uh shockwave machine and whatever else and then suddenly realize that they've still got to service all these packages that they've already been paid for and couldn't fit new patients in their diary.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: So you know I think that's another thing that if if I have clients that do have you know if they are selling like bundles of treatment and whatever I always get them to put it into a work in progress account and then just draw down as you're servicing that.
• 24:38
  Michael: Well this one of the maybe we'll find something to disagree on but this one the the the the reasons the packages are absolutely stupid because for your accounting and forecasting and so on it it's not a great way of doing it.
• 24:50
  Michael: But there's an interesting thing about you talk about CapEx because I I think I get clinics all the time saying we we will so capex is when you buy equipment based on capital expenditure.
• 24:59
  Michael: That's not for you that's for anyone listening.
• 25:01
  Michael: It's um so we'll get people who say I want to buy Machinex a a focus shockwave or something whatever it might be.
• 25:08
  Michael: It's three grand ten grand twenty grand.
• 25:10
  Michael: And my first question is always have you got a plan for how that is going to make you money because you know as well as I do or let me ask you a question.
• 25:19
  Michael: What percentage of clinics buy let's take a shockwave one of the most popular things and never make any money out of it beyond just it either sitting in a room or being just part of the treatment anyway.
• 25:30
  Michael: What percentage?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's quite a high percentage I'd like to think that when I'm working with clients that we look at that and we kind of think okay so what how do you want to work with this machine?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I do have some clients that have decided that it is just going to be incorporated in package.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: I have got some clients that have increased their pricing so that they can incorporate that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I'd say the majority of my clients with Shockwave will sell packages for Shockwave.
• 25:54
  Michael: Yeah yours will majority if I ask a random sample of a hundred people I think one has probably really thought it through and kept too that flat because you know it's important it takes a lot of money out of the business.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: You should be thinking about just like if you do Therapy Expo, right, you spend 10 grand on a stand will that make me 10 grand well in blood instead of bloody do how, what is the process of us doing what if it doesn't make us that money yeah and I do you know I think I think that was something that that was interesting in one of my sessions that I did the other day with a group and we were talking about you know bringing on different products and different you know services and things into your into your business.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to make damn sure that your team are on board with that as well and they understand all that and they understand how it's going to work.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it was a city example from many years ago where a clinic decided they had these pillows that they thought were brilliant pillows and and that's great.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I asked a question how many patients would benefit from these pillows and they were like oh virtually every single new patient would benefit from them.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I asked so then I asked the question how many have you sold in the last quarter and what was my answer?
• 26:59
  Michael: Yeah zero.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Three yeah and they were certainly getting more than three new patients a month.
• 27:04
  Michael: Yeah I mean my other half Hannah you know she used to do work for Chattanooga um TJO known at the time um working on Shockwave and I would suggest I I bet she'd say 50% of every shockwave that was sold was sat gathering dust in the cupboard somewhere because people didn't want or didn't know how to use it or whatever the case may be.
• 27:23
  Michael: But CapEx is kind of back to capex is really interesting thing because you've got to work that into your whole year right and you've got to figure out how you're gonna pay for that and you need to account properly for it so split it across the year because it's not a one-off monthly payment.
• 27:36
  Michael: And until I got a decent accountant I had no idea what I was doing and I was certainly running business quite badly.
• 27:42
  Michael: And so I think it's yeah having access to those key financial metrics is is incredibly important.
• 27:47
  Michael: And one of the things I I think we discussed this on on HMDG Connect I think it was I think we did it's that there's a lot of software at the moment out there that gives you numbers and gives you data right so whether it's Jane or Nucal or TM3 or or data play or whatever it is people come every time they're they're like hmm one system says one thing and another system says another and that's infuriating because they all do that report on one system says one thing and the a same on the same system the report says something different.
• 28:17
  Michael: Yeah it's really it's really infuriating because you just don't know what the number actually is which is why I think you need to tie everything back into an account package like zero because that's that's your that's where the you're paying the tax right that's what's it's not TM3 or clinic.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and and then I think in the in the practice management software systems it's really important to make sure that if the data's going in in the same way and in the accurate way.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: I we had I think it was like it might have been just before COVID or even might have been during COVID one of my clients was changing from one practice management software system to another and I think it was like in an August period and August we at the time were generally a little bit quieter and so my admin team didn't have as much to do.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And anyway they sent their data to this other practice management software system and they they sent it straight back saying this is all rubbish.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's goldy goof like your data is shocking.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like got postcodes in towns and incorrect telephone numbers and whatever and so they were like freaking out that they had to sort all this data out and they didn't have the manpower and I just said okay well we can do the project for you and my admin team sorted out all their data got it into the right format and then it could go back but you know if if that data was in such rubbish format for that you can't run accurate reports and you can't run your business.
• 29:36
  Michael: And and also the the the problem is that let's let's talk retention for a second.
• 29:40
  Michael: I don't want it to be a big topic but um it's just one of those boring things everyone talks about all the time.
• 29:46
  Michael: What is interesting is is what you mean by retention because some people everyone thinks retention is how many times you get a patient through the door.
• 29:53
  Michael: Well yes and no but you can measure that differently so for example if I were a clinic I know I would never measure over the course of two years how many times I get a person through the door.
• 30:02
  Michael: It's just not as an important metric as how often you get them through a six month period or a three month period.
• 30:08
  Michael: Because that number means something if they come back in twice in a six month period you're doing a terrible job.
• 30:13
  Michael: That's a API that you need to look at.
• 30:15
  Michael: And so a lot of the systems they will measure something simple like how many patients, how many, how many repeat appointments do you have so that's your average but they'll work that over a six month period or an eight month period or a 12 month period.
• 30:26
  Michael: So all the systems will give you a slightly different number and you have to make a decision as to what number is important to you and then work off of that number.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I think I I I think it might have been Rhys Carter that you did your podcast with and I found it really interesting he was highlighting it's all very well measuring a rebook rate.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: So this clinician could have an amazing rebook rate but if they not rebooking the patient in the period of time that the they clinically require so if if that rebook you know they they could have rebooked patients in three months' time instead of in two weeks' time or in three weeks' time instead of a week's time so we kind of gotta try and look at all that data and and then paint the story from that.
• 31:08
  Michael: Exactly and it's it's but and and this is actually where coaching come in really well because um no no one without having lots of experience of having done this actually knows all of these things.
• 31:18
  Michael: I didn't have a clue what I was doing when our account first started you know just basic things like I knew I should probably put money for VAT away and I should put probably put money for corporation tax away but yes like being a kid again you put your money in a sweetie pot and your money and you can do these things but unless you know what you should be doing because you don't know what you don't know.
• 31:37
  Michael: And when it comes to things like PAPEX expenditure or when it comes to measuring metrics in inside the clinic what's the important metric?
• 31:44
  Michael: Like what's more important?
• 31:45
  Michael: And you will get different opinions what is more important revenue per hour per clinician or retention rate over six months?
• 31:51
  Michael: Like these are very different metrics they're both very important.
• 31:54
  Michael: But I always say metrics are one of those things where you you see it all the time everyone has access to all this data and this is not even in this industry.
• 32:02
  Michael: You take the corporate world and you know these big couple things they've all got Google analytics on the website.
• 32:06
  Michael: How many people do you think actually look at those analytics and action of the decision on that data.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think sometimes you can get sometimes you can be focusing on too many metrics and then you do nothing because it's so overwhelming.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah it's like having a conversation earlier around okay so this is a revenue generated by your clinician how much did you make from that clinician?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: How much is that clinician costing you?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then looking at okay well I'm making X amount from this clinician they fantastic and and and you know sometimes you're happier to make a smaller margin on a clinician that's just solid and they are always booked.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: They don't charge you know they don't cost you any time compared to someone that you're making a higher margin but they're taking a lot of time.
• 32:47
  Michael: I spoke to a clinic owner um and if back in December and it was so unique and I've never heard anyone do this uh they have all their metrics they're very good at their metrics I can't say this is they're very good at metrics a very good clinic and so he has you know what the cost per hour is and what they're making you and all of that stuff.
• 33:03
  Michael: But they have a um a number system for how much of a pain in the arse they are and um and he said well it's a well I can't give too much word but they said that it is a really important metric for them because it is no good having your top performing person making you loads of money there's a complete pain in the arse doesn't turn up to work in time causes issues and so on.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then also causes like disruption in the actual team culture as well because it's like you've seen this arse play with it.
• 33:32
  Michael: Absolutely but this is the first person I've ever seen implement it as part of their metrics.
• 33:37
  Michael: I thought it was so clever.
• 33:38
  Michael: Yeah um I can't see if they'll get to come and do a podcast although might be difficult with live people but um I thought it was really interesting and that is certainly a metric and again you don't know what you don't know right this isn't something I would never have thought up myself.
• 33:52
  Michael: So this is where it can be really interesting whether it's a just more collaboration because I think collaboration in this industry is sorely missing here too.
• 34:00
  Michael: Oh my god I can't tell anyone someone in Scotland might find out yeah but even following South like chill out here you know or the amount of NDIAs I've been asked to sign because they've got something really special and it turns out that they're implementing shockwaves like just just chill out.
• 34:14
  Michael: I think yeah we could do a lot more collaboration um going forward.
• 34:18
  Michael: I I have a metric I have a metric and I'm very excited and very proud about this one you don't know about this and everyone knows because we've been going about it we've got the Prime Practice barometer um and there are 700 data points against this against this metric.
• 34:31
  Michael: So I'll try and run through this quickly when I started in the industry before I got into the industry I uh had to book an appointment and I I was looking at these two appointment prices one was 65 and one was 50 and I wanted the 50 because I'm a frugal old bastard.
• 34:44
  Michael: I wanted the 50 pounds and I didn't understand why it was 65 and the 65 looks so expensive.
• 34:48
  Michael: And so I left and then when I got into the industry I started measuring this because I realized that this is the only industry that does this stupid initial and follow-up price it's completely retarded.
• 34:57
  Michael: I sorry I can't use that word I keep getting in trouble I'm autistic as well it's completely ridiculous.
• 35:02
  Michael: And here's why if I tell you Celia I'm willing to pay you 100 pounds for a discovery session and you and then I really like the session and then I say how much to come back for another session you say oh it's 50.
• 35:15
  Michael: What are you doing?
• 35:15
  Michael: The patient has already indicated that they are willing to pay you 100 pounds.
• 35:19
  Michael: So you're needing money on the table we have probably I I I'd say we've been responsible for 100 clinics going on to unified pricing i.e just one price no follow-up no initial it's just one price so let's take a an example you charge 75 and you charge 65.
• 35:36
  Michael: Instead of charging 65 and 75 you bring it down to 70.
• 35:40
  Michael: You meet in the middle so you lower barrier to entry and where does the real money come from it comes from the back end you don't make money off first bonds you make money off ongoing appointments.
• 35:49
  Michael: So if someone's three times you've just made an extra five for a patient.
• 35:52
  Michael: If you see a thousand patients a month we just made an extra thousand pounds all of this is anecdotal and I can tell you all the clinics that have said we have increased our net profit by XYZ well we finally have data with a practice barometer.
• 36:04
  Michael: But it's not data I expected so yes everyone's making more money that does it and yes it's bigger margins or whatever.
• 36:10
  Michael: But the interesting stat was that it actually increased retention by 0.8 sessions per patient.
• 36:15
  Michael: I don't know why that is we're doing some analysis on it and you know there's some opinion but it's really interesting because I think pricing strategy is one of those things where coaches can certainly make a difference because you know as well as I do you say oh you raised your prices how much and they go£24 and you're like that's not a price.
• 36:32
  Michael: And and I think price strategy is one of those really big things and I think for me one of the big ways of making a massive difference to your clinic so let's take just that example if you see four we've got a I've got a client who is exactly like this charging I think 60 quid and I said put it up 10 an extra 10 pounds he sees 400 patients a month sorry a week a week that's four grand a week.
• 36:53
  Michael: My mass is terrible but I think that's about 16 grand uplift per month that 10 pound increase you know as well as I do will make no difference whatsoever.
• 37:01
  Michael: So if you want to make some more money pricing strategies are definitely one way of doing it.
• 37:04
  Michael: It's also good for your brand and so on and so forth.
• 37:06
  Michael: But that one of that individual pricing we're gonna release the survey I'm gonna do an article on this because because I still think there's too many clinics I believe only 18% of clinics that answer the survey are doing um a a standard one of the one plus and and is that across the board of clinicians or is there a differentiator between say director and senior philip is not talking about tiered pricing as in no would that would that still go into the tiered pricing though so your director might be a hundred your senior might be 70 correct yes your your your price is um you know 60 quid at an appointment no matter what but if you want to see Michael it's going to cost you 500 pounds because he's really doing silly podcasts.
• 37:51
  Michael: So like that yes so that's absolutely fine and that all works out but it is that you know you that it's more about Michael charges you 500 pounds but he's gonna charge you 500 pounds next time not 430 or 450 or whatever we're really interested to see that that so we now know that you get more money and patients don't drop you know this as well as I do um just because you put your price up by a 10 hour five or whatever.
• 38:14
  Michael: But actually it increases retention rate.
• 38:16
  Michael: And that's a really interesting shifting stat.
• 38:20
  Michael: And I don't know why we've got some we'll we'll put it out there.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be interesting to delve deeper into that and see because I'd say most clinics do the kind of initial end follow-up.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's and it's mad.
• 38:34
  Michael: It is because it it no other industry does it and every argument they throw throw at you is just wrong.
• 38:42
  Michael: More time in a first in a first appointment so does a solicitor so does your hairdresser does every other profession.
• 38:47
  Michael: Most of them do it for free by the way you go and see a solicitor you're not going to be charged two grand an hour like you are five you know two days later and they spend a lot of time with you.
• 38:55
  Michael: So so the and this is one of the other issues I think which is that physios say well I spend an extra 15 minutes 20 minutes or whatever and I say physios in the broader sort of clinician.
• 39:06
  Michael: So they say I spend extra time with them.
• 39:08
  Michael: But now they're valuing themselves on time and this is the next big problem because often they'll say well I spend more time so therefore I charge a a different amount of money.
• 39:17
  Michael: The problem is that the majority of people we all know that time is a really bad um thing to judge your value on.
• 39:26
  Michael: So for example I can fix your really hurty tooth in an hour or a hundred hours which one is more worth more to you?
• 39:35
  Michael: It's the hour, right?
• 39:36
  Michael: I'm not gonna go well it's gonna cost you 10 grand if you if I because I'm spending a hundred hours doing it.
• 39:41
  Michael: And the same goes with clinic clinical work.
• 39:43
  Michael: In fact there are many people like me you are not going to get me into an hour's appointment with a clinician.
• 39:47
  Michael: I don't have the time or the patients I want to be seen quickly I want to be seen um fixed as quickly as possible.
• 39:54
  Michael: We all pay for express things don't we?
• 39:56
  Michael: Express by cleaning express shipping express so yeah this idea that you You charge more because have more no, you should you should charge more because you can do the job more quickly, actually.
• 40:05
  Michael: Um but yeah, it's a really interesting um start.
• 40:08
  Michael: And I think pricing as a whole is something where the industry is is is really f really in danger, actually, because prices haven't increased to to where they should be.
• 40:18
  Michael: We all know this.
• 40:19
  Michael: Um but at the same time, I think this year going forwards, we're gonna see a bit of an issue where you're gonna have those cheap clinics, and this is happening in every other industry.
• 40:28
  Michael: You get the cheap guys, the IKEAs, you're like, yeah, it's great, this is what we provide is cheap.
• 40:32
  Michael: Then you get the really high-end players, and everyone else is gonna be stuck in the middle, struggling for the patients.
• 40:38
  Michael: And that's if you're stuck in the middle, you're gonna struggle over the next few years.
• 40:42
  Michael: In fact, going forwards, that isn't where the real money is.
• 40:45
  Michael: The real money is on the high end and doing a really good job.
• 40:49
  Michael: I'm not saying poor service, but just this is a lower level.
• 40:53
  Michael: You're not getting, you know, etc.
• 40:55
  Michael: etc.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're gonna struggle being right on the bottom as well, because you're never gonna be able to afford decent team members to deliver the service.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna have good team retention, you're not gonna be able to reinvest in your clinic.
• 41:06
  Michael: It's a kind of a it doesn't mean you can't make money, it uh you know, without it's the ascension model, right?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, I think the uh pricing strategy needs really, really good consideration.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I uh the the the amount of times over the last what 17, 18 years, whatever it is, um, of having these pricing conversations and they just absolutely just have sleepless nights about it and and they wanting to talk about two pounds and I'm talking about five pounds or trying to go up to ten pounds and eventually we get somewhere and they put the prices up and nothing happens.
• 41:40
  Michael: Yeah, nothing.
• 41:40
  Michael: And it's it's every time.
• 41:42
  Michael: I think pricing is is definitely one of those areas that that people need to think about more, and you've got to be careful with it, but you also got to understand that you can change your pricing, you can change it up, you can change it down.
• 41:52
  Michael: If you try something and it doesn't work, drop it down.
• 41:55
  Michael: If you think any other industry is sat there once a year change your prices, you're wrong.
• 41:59
  Michael: Now we there are strategies obviously around how you do it.
• 42:02
  Michael: So for our clients, we never change prices on them.
• 42:05
  Michael: If you're an existing client, you stay at that price, doesn't matter what you're on.
• 42:09
  Michael: New clients, come on, you've shown loyalty, that's what you get.
• 42:11
  Michael: Now, if you're a clinician, you can't just say here's an extra 20 quid on 20 quid on every appointment.
• 42:16
  Michael: Or I mean you could do, but I think it would be a mistake.
• 42:18
  Michael: Because you're gonna have people that have been coming to you for 10 years going, hold on a second.
• 42:21
  Michael: So, you know, maybe you just say new patients get the price price.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: I just think it is it needs to you need to have a proper strategy about it, rather than just thinking, oh, I'll just do two pounds because that feels comfortable.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like we've actually got to look and so that coming back to the numbers, that is one thing that I always get.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you I uh really think you should be doing a pricing review, a review at least once a year.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you should be reviewing, and it doesn't mean that you're gonna put your prices up, most likely it will, but you should be reviewing it at least once a year.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then you need to review it when anything changes in your business.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say your rent goes up or you know, cost of living crisis goes up, you've got to review it again.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that you really do need to review is what was your percentage profitability last year and what is it now?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because actually, if you don't put your prices up, the person that's losing out is you at the end of the day.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if your business was 20% profitable last year and now it's gone down to 17%, if you don't sort that out now, by the next year it's going to be down to 13%.
• 43:21
  Michael: Well, that ties into the very first thing you said, that the very first thing you do with clients, which is long-term, five years or what it, three years, where you want to be and it what's the exit strategy?
• 43:30
  Michael: Because if you are looking to exit, you know, your fluctuating profitability downwards is not helping towards that goal, right?
• 43:36
  Michael: You need to increase it.
• 43:38
  Michael: Um and I think you know, pricing is is an important one, and but it's also important not to think about what everyone else is doing because I get this all the time.
• 43:46
  Michael: We'd be the most expensive in the area.
• 43:48
  Michael: Good.
• 43:48
  Michael: Make yourself the most expensive.
• 43:50
  Michael: What if it doesn't work?
• 43:51
  Michael: Reduce your price.
• 43:52
  Michael: It will because we know looks.
• 43:55
  Michael: But yeah, I I think people are always comparing themselves too much.
• 43:58
  Michael: Um they want to be spat bang in the middle.
• 44:00
  Michael: I'm about to think I think you can look.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it's I think it's healthy to look and see, you know, where you're sitting against your competition.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've had some clients that thought that they were most expensive, and I've said, well, go, I want to know now.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then they almost like the cheapest, and they're like, okay, what are we doing here?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: You've got a really lovely clinic, you should not be the cheapest in the town.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I think there's a combination of knowing what's happening in your marketplace, knowing what the value is that you're providing, how that differentiates, and then knowing your own numbers.
• 44:27
  Michael: Yeah.
• 44:27
  Michael: And and also, you know what, you you've got to take into account economic basics, right?
• 44:32
  Michael: Supply and demand.
• 44:33
  Michael: When it clings to me, I had one lovely guy this morning who's just about to crown Klein.
• 44:36
  Michael: He's like, I am shocker.
• 44:38
  Michael: It's a two-week waiting list at a minimum.
• 44:41
  Michael: And so, well, you don't do marketing, you need to put your price up.
• 44:43
  Michael: You don't are that in demand, never waiting less.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:47
  Michael: Yeah.
• 44:48
  Michael: Now I think if you want to hire me, I'll charge you five grand because I don't want to do the bloody work.
• 44:52
  Michael: Like you can put the price to a point where people don't come, you can certainly do that.
• 44:56
  Michael: But it's like, you know, you you've got to raise it to a reasonable level because if if people are willing to pay you£300 and they'll pay you that charge it, right?
• 45:05
  Michael: But again, that imposter syndrome thing is that not everyone can afford it.
• 45:10
  Michael: You you had a really good phrase, you said it years and years ago, and I I've stolen it from you.
• 45:14
  Michael: Don't don't means test your patient.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:16
  Michael: Get that a little as well.
• 45:18
  Michael: We could talk for hours.
• 45:19
  Michael: I know you've got a hard stop in.
• 45:20
  Michael: I'm gonna call it four o'clock.
• 45:22
  Michael: You got a hard stop.
• 45:23
  Michael: Maybe we do a part two, because I've got about 15 things that that would be really good to do.
• 45:29
  Michael: I I hopefully everyone enjoyed that.
• 45:30
  Michael: I think that's some it's good just to have a chat with someone else in the industry that isn't necessarily clinical.
• 45:34
  Michael: So maybe we'll do a part two.
• 45:36
  Michael: But thank you so much for coming up.
• 45:37
  Michael: Um that was really useful.
• 45:39
  Michael: Um, how can people get in touch with you if they want to turn their hundred grand clinic into a billion pound clinic?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so if you're on Connect, I'm on Connect, so you can message me on the Connect site as well, the HMDG Connect site.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um but otherwise drop me an email, celia at painlesspractice.com.
• 45:55
  Michael: Perfect, and I'll put the details in the in the notes as well.
• 45:58
  Michael: Thanks again so much.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great to contact you.