Latest / Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth / 181: How to use a company podcast to get more exposure with Lindsay Tjepkema of Casted

Transcript

181: How to use a company podcast to get more exposure with Lindsay Tjepkema of Casted · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

0:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing that since you're listening to this podcast, you're generally a fan of podcasts.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: And if you're working in a company, you may be wondering how the heck does a company like ours get some value from doing our own podcast?
0:48
SPEAKER_01: There are definitely companies out there that are doing it and doing it successfully, but it can be a bit daunting thinking, either as an employee or as a founder, how do we get a podcast going so that it has some impact and some value for our business?
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what we're covering in this episode, but on Lindsay Chikma, who is the CEO at Casted, where she helps businesses, B2B businesses, with their podcast strategy so they get success and value.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Sales Bluebird podcast, where we help cybersecurity companies grow sales faster.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Whether you're a seller, marketer, leader, or founder, we give you tips, tricks, experiences, examples, ideas, and inspiration from people who know a thing or ten about building great companies.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Andrew Monahan.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Our guest today is Lindsay Chipkama, CEO and founder at Cast It.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: Lindsay, welcome to Sales Bluebird.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I am really excited to be here.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Andrew.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm looking forward to our discussion.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: As the audience will know, uh I'm a big fan of podcasts, obviously, since I've been doing this for a while.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: And you're bringing to the discussion today an interesting take about how companies who want to launch podcasts, why they should do it, how they should do it, the benefits of doing it, things like that.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: There's a whole bunch of people who are producing a whole bunch of content, but uh very few cybersecurity companies are actually running podcasts.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's an interesting area, I think, that many companies are missing out on.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to our discussion.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: But Lindsay, before we get to that, let's get to know you a little bit.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: I've got a list here of 35 questions, and you'd be very pleased to know I'm not gonna ask you 35 questions.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna ask you to pick three random numbers between one and thirty-five, and I'll read out the question they correspond to.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: I would gladly answer 35 questions.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I think we would lose your audience though.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: They would be really bored of of me.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you do this.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you want me to pick pick three numbers between one and thirty-five?
2:54
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's go with one, thirty-five, and seventeen.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, one is sweet of the four seasons or cabin in the woods.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Suite at the four seasons.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Always?
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Not always.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think always.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: If it was the right cabin, like if it was like not a cabin cabin with like if it was a four seasons cabin in the woods, is that if it was like a nice cabin, like with a nice kitchen.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my husband goes camping with our kids and they would totally be like cabin in the woods 100%.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: And I don't need like nice things, like it wouldn't have to be a four seasons, but I'm much more of like a city dweller.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Give me a nice kitchen where I can take a vacation and like cook something or bake something.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: I love a view and I love the woods.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to be like, I don't want to be like camping.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: So got it.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: If anybody wants to book a vacation for me, there you go.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: There's my printer.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Number 35, uh similar vein, dive bar or cocktail bar.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh, cocktail bar.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, you know, I love a good dive bar.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: So okay, dive bar if it's like nostalgic.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like when I lived in Chicago, there was a place that we used to go to all the time.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: When I went to college, we all had those places that we would always go.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: So there's there's nothing more comfortable than like a good nostalgic dive bar.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: But I also I love a good like get dressed up, put on heels, hat put on shoes anymore, and um go go out to a nice cocktail bar too.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know, I guess both.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: But both depends on the day.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I was at college, I I grew up in Scotland and uh next to the halls of residence that I was in in my first year, we could actually leap over the fence, and there was a hotel that had a bar in it.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: And it was not a fancy hotel, uh, let's say very rudimentary, and they had some name, I forget what it was called.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: It was called the the Tape Order Hotel or something like that.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Everyone in the halls knew it as the dive.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the hotel loved that.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: The owner did not like it at all, right?
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we knew his son for some reason.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember how we knew his son, but whenever someone's around, we had to be careful.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: We didn't call it, oh, we're going to the dive tonight.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: A quick break to say that this episode is sponsored by the security funded newsletter.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: Staying on top of all the latest news of the business of cybersecurity is really hard.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: There are thousands of cybersecurity companies and hundreds of VCs all doing new things all the time.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to keep up with all of it.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: I've been reading the security funded newsletter for the last six months and look forward to seeing it appear on my inbox every Monday morning.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: It is written by Mike Provette, who is a CISO himself and who also advises startups and investors on the business side of cybersecurity.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Each week, Mike covers the latest news and insights on cybersecurity funding, including investment trends, funding runs, new startup launches, and analysis and commentary.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: By subscribing to the newsletter, you'll gain valuable insights and perspectives that you just won't find anywhere else.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: Whether you're a founder, investor, or just someone who wants to stay informed about this rapidly evolving industry, the security funded newsletter has something for you.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: I highly recommend you subscribe right now at salesbluebird.com slash funded.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: That's salesbluebird.com slash funded.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Now back to the discussion.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: All right.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: Last book you read.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: Last I'm I'm reading like five right now.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: I reread Brene Brown books all the time, and I just finished Dare to Lead recently.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: And then I was also reading A Read Start with Y.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: And Oh, the No Rules Rules too.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: So Oh, so I hadn't heard of the No Rules Rules.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about that one.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: It's Reed Hoffman's about like the different yeah.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: So Netflix and how to structure your business to be prime for success, that kind of thing.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: So I'm constantly reading lots of things.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of thinking and listening to a lot of books too.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: I dip around a little bit, right?
6:58
SPEAKER_01: I I find with business books, I don't read them cover to cover.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I dip in a little bit here and there.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: I I start a little bit, skip on a little bit, put it down, come back, things like that.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: One of the things I'm looking to do though is I've said to myself, I want to read 10 pages per day going forward of a nonfiction book.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'll get some learning from it.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna have to dip into more and more books in the coming months to make sure I stay on track with that.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Lindsay, how did you first make money as a kid?
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: I think like a lot of other people, I did a lemonade stand, drank half the lemonade, and made like a dollar that really probably should have just paid back my parents for five dollars they spent on lemonade.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: And then officially I was a kid, but I wasn't like a little kid.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh I got my first job when I was 14, or as a, I think my title was actually bus boy, which is funny.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Like cleaning off tables at one of those real like restaurants that kind of only old people go to.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, that's the first place I got a paycheck.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And what was the first real job you ever had?
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Man, that one's kind of tough because I did internships in college and my first internship was unpaid.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: I was an intern at a PR firm, not getting paid, working, I think 25 hours a week.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: So that was interesting.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: And then I worked at another internship where I got paid a little bit.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And then my first real job that I actually worked at after college actually started as an internship where I was, I kind of ran all of marketing for an economic development corporation called Southwest Michigan First in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: And then your career has been in marketing.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: I I got a I went to college for marketing.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: I got a graduate degree in marketing, and I've been doing marketing for like 20 years.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So yes, that's that's all I've ever known.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And recently you've founded Casted.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Tell me about the day that you won your first customer, first real paying customer.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a friend doing you a favor, right?
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Just real paying customer at Casted.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: You never forget that moment, right?
8:55
SPEAKER_00: So we my first day, first official day of like I work at Casted now was April 29th, 2019.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: And about 60 days later, we had our first paying customer, which is interesting because we didn't have our first anything to log into until about a month later.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: So, which they knew that they they knew what they were signing up for.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: They were kind of signing on to be our first customer and kind of investing in our roadmap and what we were building.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: But it was a company called Terminus, and they said, Yep, we're in.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: We would love to be your first customer.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I don't know if they officially knew they were our first customer.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: They knew they were like among the first.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And we'd love to join on.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because even as an adult who has sold things, you know, myself, my co-founders, we were like, Yeah, we have a customer.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And we like sent the contract because we got the verbal, and then we sent the contract, and then we were like, Why are they signing it?
9:46
SPEAKER_00: And I don't remember.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: It took like a couple days.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: And um, we all knew it was just one of those things you know with your head, but you don't really fully realize with your heart.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Like they weren't just like sitting there waiting to sign the contract.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: So, but then I remember when it got signed and we were like, Somebody's paying us to do this.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: And um, that was a pretty great moment.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Then it was followed by a couple more shortly thereafter.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's when you realize that they've actually got other things to do, except for uh just your contract, even though you're all sitting around just sitting there being like, everyone else is like, is it here?
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Is it here yet?
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Is it here yet?
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: So I guess for anybody listening, if if you are one of those first customers, say yes.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And then if you have any app any ability to say yes and then be like, send me the contract and I'll sign it right now, like you are making someone's year when you do that.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: You're you're taking a lot of heartache out of the uh the process for them.
10:36
unknown: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, since we talked about casted, why don't you just quickly give us the the 30 second on what casted is?
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So casted, we uh are a software platform.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: So we're technically we're a SaaS platform.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: So software is a service, and our software is made specifically for B2B marketing teams that have podcasts and or video content, much like this.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: And we say, hey, you're you're working hard to make this really, really great audio and video content.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: We want to help you one, publish it and syndicate it and get it out into the world, and then do two really important things, which is maximize it, which is how can you use it above and beyond your podcast and video channels?
11:14
SPEAKER_00: How can you use clips and transcriptions and different parts and pieces of that episode across other channels and to serve your sales team and your CX team and do all sorts of stuff?
11:24
SPEAKER_00: So that's one.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And then two, how can we help you prove its value to the brand and to the business?
11:29
SPEAKER_00: So by integrating with your CRM and giving you metrics that really matter to a marketing team and a sales team to say, how is this content really proving value to the business?
11:38
SPEAKER_00: How is it driving real measurable business impact and ultimately revenue?
11:43
SPEAKER_00: That's in a nutshell, that's that's what casted exists to do.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So you're you're working with other businesses to target B2B, right?
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know what their rights that are.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: You might know better than I do right now, but I hear there's two or three million podcasts out there.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I hear there's less than a million which are actually active right now.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of them are might be hobbyist type podcasts, but there is a growing trend for companies to have podcasts as part of their content strategy.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: But I would say in cybersecurity, which is the area that we work in, there's not that many of them.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: So if I was uh a CEO, what would you say to me as look, this is something you need to jump on, and you need to jump on it now.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, yeah, yeah, you started for me.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Um the time is now, jump on it.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Because, and that's not me just even pitching.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: If I was just a marketer at another company and a fan of podcasts, like I would still say the same thing.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: If I was not running casted, I would still say the same thing.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Because to your point, there aren't a ton of cybersecurity-esque podcasts, which means that there's more opportunity for those to who are in the space to start something great and to get a real following.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: That's one.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: And two, cybersecurity in particular has a real opportunity to build trust, right?
13:00
SPEAKER_00: That's what you're all about.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: The more trust a company in cybersecurity or any type of security has, the more successful you will be.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: And so the more you can build that trust, the better.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: And the best way to build trust is through humans and authenticity and podcasts and podcasts and video content have a unique way to do that above and beyond any other type of content.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
13:22
SPEAKER_00: So what do you I mean, you're a human, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: So what at least I think you are.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're human, right?
13:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, AI is getting pretty good these days.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: So you're a human, I'm a human.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: So even just asking you, when you blogs are great, articles are great, we use them all the time, they're wonderful.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: But if you were given a piece of paper to read or a conversation to listen to or watch, which do you think you would end up developing more trust and affinity for?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Right?
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Probably the brand.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I read things, I don't get the personality, I don't get the tone, I don't get the things behind the piece.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: I just read it.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: And usually that piece has been edited beyond all belief, right?
14:03
SPEAKER_01: So you edit out some of the stuff that's actually kind of interesting.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Whereas when I listen to someone just chatting, you hear about what they're all about, you get their tone, you get you do you like them, do you not like them?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: You can tell all that just by listening to what they say.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: You get candor, you get character.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And again, there's nothing wrong with written content at all.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: But written content is really, really good at educating, at informing, at providing further context.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody might hear our conversation and then want to dive deeper.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: They might hear some of the things that we talk about, be like, well, I want to know how to do that.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I want to know, you know, more about that.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: It's really great for follow-up.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: But if we're trying to build trust and say, hey, I want someone to know about my brand, I want someone to know about my leadership and my thought leadership, and I want them to trust me and like me and have affinity for what my company does, nothing quite beats podcast and video content.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think more and more brands are waking up to that.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think especially those in the security space are realizing that the more human they can make their brands, the better.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: And podcasting is a really, really great way to do that.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the things that we suffer from in cybersecurity is the scourge of the buzzwords.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: When someone's, if you look at the lot of the websites that our industry has, they're either very technical and or they're full of you know buzzwords.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: We're the leading synergistic AI, ML thing that you know does this and very, very, very specific.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: And to me, I think even the technical people, it doesn't it doesn't resonate with them, right?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: It's like, why are you talking this weird language?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Whereas with a podcast, it's much more human, to your point, right?
15:41
SPEAKER_01: You can actually actually explain things a bit better.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And you're able to give more of the why and the how and the you're right, the human behind it all.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Where does a podcast sit in a company's content or marketing strategy?
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I love that question.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Where does it sit or where do I think it should be?
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe a bit of both.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Typically where it has been positioned in the past.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And I love I'm I'm advocating for it, but I'm also seeing it start to naturally happen, is that it's shifting.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: But where it has been in the past, kind of over here on this island, right?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, oh, we're doing all of these more traditional channels, we're blogging and we're writing articles, and we have a website and we're doing all of these kind of email, all of these older, which is weird to call those older channels now, but they're they are.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: They're more standard.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And then we're gonna test out this podcast over here on the side, right?
16:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's fine if that's where you start.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the things we're gonna talk about is like how to get started and how to evolve over time.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: But typically it kind of sits over here on an island as an experiment on the side.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Where it should be is right in the middle.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's because if I talk to you, if you're on my podcast and you're an expert in, I don't know, cybersecurity, and I want to talk to my audience about that, why would I put you over here on the side when I can bring you right into the center?
16:59
SPEAKER_00: I can harness all of your insights and expertise and thought leadership right in the center.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And then I can distribute that out through podcasting.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And if we capture video too, I can I can send that out through those channels.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And then I can really ring out, or what we say is amplify your voice across those more standard channels.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: I can use those clips in blog posts and in emails and in my social media and in the more standard channels and in my sales enablement and CX.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Like I can use that podcast content across those, all of those other marketing channels that I'm already using.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And that's more effective because then I have that one of that repetition going out to my audience in all the different ways that they're going to be reached by my brand.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's more efficient because I start with this one conversation and then I spend time just ringing it out as opposed to doing net new development in every single channel.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So to answer your question, typically it's over here on the side, it's most successful, and we advocate for it being right in the center.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if a lot of founders, CEOs of the earlier states, cybersecurity companies might benefit the way that I did.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, here's my idea about what I do is the idea for me to sit down and write a blog post is draining for me, right?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not something I I can write, but uh it doesn't come naturally to me, right?
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: And when you know I first started doing this sort of thing years ago before podcasts really had taken off, that was really the thing you had to do.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Everyone talked about blogging, blogging, blogging, right?
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And so what did I do?
18:33
SPEAKER_01: I had to either write it myself or I had to give it to someone else to write.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: And if I talk to someone else, they'd probably want to interview me.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, Andrew, how do you think about this topic?
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And I have to tell them, and then they would go write it, right?
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Whereas what I do right now is I literally just I could spend 15 minutes bulleting out what I think I want to talk about in a podcast.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: And because I know my topic really well, it's pretty easy then for me to just fill in the gaps, right?
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: It's not draining for me to do it.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: So I wonder if if founders are are in maybe the same boat, right?
19:02
SPEAKER_01: We're not asking you to sit and write a blog post.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: We're asking you just to do like five minutes of prep on these type of questions, and then we'll record it and use it in uh for our podcast, but then repurpose it to the answer to degree afterwards.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: And you're right, there's so many things you can do after that.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean you're spot on.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's how a lot of podcasts do start and can start, right?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Where it's me too.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: It's I I love writing.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: I've done a ton of writing throughout my career.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: I like to do it, but I don't I don't have a ton of time.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: I I just any founder, like anybody anymore, I don't have a ton of time.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: But anything that I might want to say or questions that I might want to answer that might be helpful to my team or to my audience, I can talk to and I can speak to and I can, I can think out loud a lot more efficiently and probably therefore much more effectively, just talking through it.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And then to our earlier point, our audience gets the benefit of candor and passion and excitement and enthusiasm and candid conversation really does that in a really special way.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Do you advise companies on the format to start with, the best format to use?
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because I get asked a lot for questions and I'm happy to always give my advice.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Casted kind of exists after.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: So officially, that's not where casted sits.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, we we get asked about it all the time, we talk about it all the time.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think where we land most often, what works best for most companies is what we're doing right now, is a one-to-one, either one, maybe two hosts and interviewers, and then one or two guests as interviewees.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And having kind of a structured conversation that follows a probably 20 to 40 minute show will have a standard outline every time where you know you started with the fun three questions and then get into the meat of the conversation.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And then maybe there's like one or two other segments, and there you go.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And quite often people will think that you should do one show every week forever and ever and ever, which is fine and works for some people.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And it, but it can be a lot less intimidating to give yourself permission just to do seasons.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do four episodes, I'm gonna do 10 episodes, and then I'm gonna take a break, and then I'm going to reevaluate what my next topic should be or what my next season should be about.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, from there, format and structure and all the other details really become pretty brand specific.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about the journey that someone goes on with their podcast.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Cassid recently released the idea of a maturity model around the podcast marketing.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you quickly talk us through what that is and the elements of it, and then we're gonna make this more real for the audience by picking a real live cybersecurity company that doesn't know we're doing this.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: If we were them, uh, how might they approach this?
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll try to make this succinct.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: We launched the casted B2B podcast maturity curve.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: And what that does is it looks at the five stages that a brand typically goes through as they adopt a podcast, as they adopt podcasting as part of their content marketing strategy.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Stage one is when they are basically just experimenting with a concept and they say, Hey, kind of like what you were talking about before, I am the marketer, I'm gonna go to my founder and just ask them some questions, or I am the founder and I'm just gonna record myself.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: There's an idea that there is knowledge in someone's head or the ability to unlock knowledge in other people's heads as guests.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: There's just an idea that says, Hey, I think we could serve our audience.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: In kind of a more real and authentic way through having these conversations or by recording this content, let's try it, right?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: That's stage one.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Stage two is hey, we tried it and now we're gonna work on show creation.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: So it's no more experimenting, experimenting with a concept.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: It's saying, how do we turn this thing into a regular cadence of a show?
22:53
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do this every week.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna record enough content to do this monthly, or we're gonna do a season.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: It's how do we get into a regular cadence with that show, everything we just talked about, that show structure and that format.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Like this is a thing that we're gonna do.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: It's actually part of our strategy now.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Stage three is where the rubber really hits the road for a lot of brands.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's it tends to be where a lot of brands actually think is the end, which I'll get to in a second.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: But that's where you have a show, you're doing this regular rhythm, and then you're like, man, we need to grow our audience.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: We need to expand our audience.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: We really need to expand who we're speaking to and kind of better understand them.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's great.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's where a lot of the market is today, which is really cool because back in 2019, when we started, we were convincing a lot of brands to start podcasts.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: We were enticing them to even get started at all.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Whereas now there's a lot of brands, this wave is here, and they're at this place where it's like, cool, we have shows.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: How do we grow our audience?
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Right, which is really cool, but that's not where it ends.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: That's where unlocking the real value of podcasting really begins.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Because once you start to grow your audience, you start to go, huh, this isn't really about the show.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: This is about the brand.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: And how can we use the show to fuel all of our marketing channels and to amplify these voices, these conversations, this authentic content across multiple channels.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So stage four is about amplifying that content to really grow your brand.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately, stage five is about thinking even bigger to say, yep, it's about the show.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Yep, it's about using the show to grow the audience.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Yep, it's about thinking even bigger to use the show to grow the brand.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, it's about using it all to drive real measurable results, which for most companies means drive revenue, right?
24:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's where you get into understanding the real impact that all that content is making on the brand and understanding who is engaging, how they're engaging, and how that turns into sales.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: That's the maturity model.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: It really succinctly lays out what all of us are going through at various stages of our growth when people start to do podcasts.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I remember I don't I remember years ago, Tim Ferriss, yes, so people who don't know Tim Ferriss has got one of the biggest podcasts in the world, highly successful, listen to forever, you know, hundreds of millions of downloads, right?
25:16
SPEAKER_00: He was talking about a four-hour work week long before we were ever talking about a four-day work week.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: His first few episodes when he just said, I'm just gonna start.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: If you go back, I don't know if you can, but if you can go back and listen to them, they're not good.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: And he will not be offended by anyone saying that, right?
25:33
SPEAKER_01: He was stumbling around, he wasn't quite sure of format, he wasn't quite sure how he would do it.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: The audio quality was terrible.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: It was it was almost like AM radio in the 60s, kind of uh audio quality.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: And yet here he is, probably, I don't know, five, six, seven years later, with uh a show that gets downloaded literally by the tens of millions per episode.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's crazy.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And you see how he went down this journey, probably intuitively rather than explicitly choosing to do it this way, uh, to the point now where he is so widely listened to.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: So, in many ways, that starting point is the key to you said right the start, right?
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Now's the time to start.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: But let's let's make this more real.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: So just a few weeks back on this podcast, Jack Wilson joined me, and Jack is the CRO, the chief revenue officer at a company called Token.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: For those of you that uh don't remember or didn't listen to the episode, token uh is an anomaly in the security world, and that they're building a piece of hardware when everyone else is building software.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's the idea that you can use a ring that goes on your finger as the second part of multi-factor authentication, right?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like the aura ring, if you got if anyone knows that out there in the market that helps you with your biohacking and measuring your body and stuff like that.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Think of it like an aura ring, but for actually biometric authentication of individuals.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: So I really like about what token is doing is they're reinventing a very, very boring, tired subset of our marketplace that has not changed for literally years and bringing something that's much more modern and interesting to the to the market.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: So that's the kind of background.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: So if we're let's put ourselves in in or let's put ourselves in the in the shoes of advising uh token about what a podcast might do and how to get going, what's the first thing that you would be advising them on or talk to them about?
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, kudos to them because it sounds like a really cool business.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And okay, so first of all, we talked about a little a little bit earlier how in security and cybersecurity, trust is paramount, right?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: And you can tell somebody all day long what you do, but telling stories about the impact that you make is where, at least in my mind, that's where you win people over.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And with something as new and different as a ring that acts as a token, could immediately spark some like, yeah, buts.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but what happens if I lose the ring?
27:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but happens at what happens if I, you know, somebody else gets a hold of it, what happens if I leave it behind?
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I'm a hundred thousand percent sure that they have answers for all of this.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: So tell stories about it.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Tell stories about, you know, a time, have real people on, like start capturing, start at that first step, right?
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Which is idea, like experiment with ideas.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: So go capture some stories, have the CEO or whoever acts as the thought leader or thought leaders in the company or as partners or customers, start to tell stories.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Just capture them, right?
28:27
SPEAKER_00: There's no harm with that, because even if you don't do a podcast, all of that content's gonna be really good to have anyway, as quotes and testimonials and starter content for blogs, right?
28:37
SPEAKER_00: So that's stage one.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: To your point about Tim Ferris, just get started.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Just capture some content.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: There's no law that you have to use it and you have to publish it, and just get started.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Come up with a concept and go from there.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And to that point, Lindsay, I didn't talk to the CEO, but Jack is a CRO.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: He's very personable, really interesting guy, came across really well in the interview.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: It seems to me if he's not already, that might be the natural kind of, you know, evangelist person for this.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the CRO is already doing podcasts with people like you, right?
29:08
SPEAKER_00: So he's already telling stories.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: It's already out there.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: So why not start capturing that internally in whatever way works for them, whether it's it's just him or him with somebody else in the organization, talking to each other, doing monologue, and just here's an idea, here's a thought, here's something we get asked about a lot, here's a story about a customer.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Especially in security, we hear a lot like, oh, it'd be so great to talk to a customer, but people don't want to talk to us live because security, like literally because of the problem that we solve for them, they don't want to talk about it.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Then you talk about it anonymously.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I have this customer who's doing this, they're a Fortune 500 brand, and they use our service because of X, Y, and Z.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Just start.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Just start recording something, get creative, time box it.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: None of us have any time, especially in Founderland, but spend five minutes, spend 10 minutes, spend if you have an hour, take that time and just say, what could we do?
30:00
SPEAKER_00: What could be real?
30:01
SPEAKER_00: So that's step one.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Step two is to turn that concept into a reality.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: And so the only way, and this is where people get intimidated, is like, how am I just going to do a show?
30:12
SPEAKER_00: What do I even do about do that on?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Once you do step one and you start experimenting and you start just starting and you just capture ideas and you just hit record and you have conversations with whether there's a marketing team or a board or whoever it is in the CRO's life to be able to bounce ideas off of, that's where the ideas will come together.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: And so in stage two, get into that study cadence of starting to publish, right?
30:37
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be great.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Just get start doing it consistently.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: So let's just quickly talk about that though.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Cause I think sometimes the temptation is well, what we need what we actually need to do is talk about ourselves a lot.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Now let's uh let's give a demo.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: Let's uh show how awesome our stuff is.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Is that is that the right way to do it or is there other more nuanced ways to think about it?
30:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can, you can do whatever you want.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: But think about going to a party and walking in the door and there's a bunch of people.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And if you kept going up to people saying, hi, I'm Lindsay, these are all the things that I like and that I like to do, and these are all the things that my life is about, like there would be some people who would be interested at least for a little while, and then they would want, they would start to wonder, like, what's in this for me?
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, am I why am I just listening to this person talk about themselves?
31:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we all know this.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: The same thing goes for our business, especially in any sort of human, really, really human type of content like this.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: So the thing that I always say to anyone that's thinking about starting a podcast is, who is it for and why are you doing it?
31:37
SPEAKER_00: So who is your audience?
31:38
SPEAKER_00: It can't be the entire world because then nobody's gonna listen.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: So who is it?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And the more niche you can get, the better.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a cybersecurity company, is it are you B2B?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Are you B2C?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Are you reaching families?
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Are you reaching CEOs?
31:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know your audience, but then get even more niche, right?
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Like it is as specific as you possibly can.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: And then why are you doing it?
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself, what, okay, why am I doing it?
32:02
SPEAKER_00: What do I want them to feel, think, and do?
32:04
SPEAKER_00: What do I, and when I want them to do something, do I want them to like add to cart and buy something?
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Or do I want them to just be like, huh?
32:10
SPEAKER_00: That company, that token ring company, that was that was a really cool company.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: I I think I want to learn more.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I think I want to stay tuned to this podcast.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Because then from there, you can start to get into, okay, what would be most relevant to this audience because I know who they are.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: And based on what I want them to do, then what am I, what are we going to talk about?
32:28
SPEAKER_00: How are we going to serve them well?
32:29
SPEAKER_01: And how would they measure this to know whether it's it's hitting home?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's a really great question.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Stage one, it's just stay focused on all I'm doing is capture.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: It's an experiment.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: It's an experiment on creating something.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: So that is what you measure.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Getting creative.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Once you move into stage two, the only thing to measure is the output.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Don't start measuring audience size.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Don't start measuring dollars in per episode published.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna work.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get frustrated and you're gonna quit.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: So instead, look at okay, I want to do five episodes in the next three months or whatever it is for you.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Did you do it?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Did you record and edit and publish those five episodes?
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Done.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Goal achieved.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: That's all you should measure at that stage.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Once you move into stage three, which is all about audience growth, then and only then, once your show is established and running, only then can you start to say, here's who we're reaching now.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: We're reaching 10 people per episode now, or 100 people per episode now.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Now we want, like, here are the growth goals.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Here's how we want to grow our audience.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Here's who how we want to grow our returning listeners, here's how we want to better understand who they are.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: That's when you can start to set goals.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Because one, how are you gonna set goals around something that doesn't even exist?
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And two, you start to have some data around what's what's already happening.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: And then you can start to fine-tune like, okay, how can we turn up the volume?
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Audience growth is someone who's uh been living this for a while.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's like the crack that you you you live on, right?
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Did my downloads go up and things like that?
34:03
SPEAKER_01: But for a company like token, I mean, uh, I don't know, maybe their audience potential audience size could be huge.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't know.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: But how would they go about growing the audience?
34:11
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Again, once you know who is it for and why are you doing it, then you can start to answer that question.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: It is funny because we get asked a lot and I hear, I hear a lot of people talking about it.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I grow my audience?
34:23
SPEAKER_00: And do you want to grow your audience?
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe you're reaching a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand, whatever the number is right now.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: And are you reaching the right people, especially in in B2B?
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Like if you are reaching a hundred people and they're all in your target audience, how do you activate them?
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you get them doing what you want them to do, as opposed to growing your audience to a million people?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: So you have to first understand who it's for and why you're doing it.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: And then once you do know, okay, yep, I want to grow my audience.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: There's lots of ways you can do it.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Being on each other on other people's podcasts and cross-promoting is a really good way to do it.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: And amplifying your content, which is how you start to grow into stage four, is really important because if I just publish my podcast, just publish it and then share a link on social media, that's only going to go so far.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: But if I amplify it and I ask you as my guest to also help amplify it and share it and give you some assets to share.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: And then I write a blog post kind of summarizing our conversation and embedding some of the content in it.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: People will be reached across all those different channels and start to have multiple different ways to interact with it.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: And over time, that will turn into audience growth.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: And so it's using that content in myriad ways and driving people back to that central starting point.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it's worthwhile pointing out though that uh this is not all something that they need to do themselves.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: There are companies who help with this.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can go as basic as hiring someone on Fiverr to do some basic stuff for you, or you engage a proper company such as Cas that that might help you do that as well.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: And it really depends on what stage you're ready to invest at, I would, I would guess.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: And especially for stages one, two, and into three, working with any sort of production agency, which can sound like a a big, heavy term for some really small companies.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, that can be a person.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: It can literally be a person who can help you produce and publish and promote your show, or it can be an agency.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And we work with lots of them.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: We have lots of great partner production agencies that you can find on our site that's just scratching the surface on what's available.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
36:26
SPEAKER_01: And then the final bit is the marketing amplification.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, you created a show, you've started to understand you, you know who your audience, who you want them to be, you know who they are, and you're starting to grow them.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: You're starting to see some traction because you're across promoting and you're working on building your audience.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Then you start to say, you start to pick your head up out of just looking at the show to say, how can I use this to grow the brand?
36:48
SPEAKER_00: So it's not just about using the brand to grow the show.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: It's then kind of flipping it around and saying, How can I use the show to grow the brand?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: And that looks like amplification.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: It looks like breaking the show down into clips and key takeaways, using a page for the show that brings people back to your website.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: It's using blogs and using emails and getting in the hands of your sales team so that from that one conversation, you have many, many different assets and different touch points for your internal audience to use, your CX team, your leadership team, your sales team to use to engage your external audience.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And you're also further engaging your external audience by reaching them across different channels, right?
37:28
SPEAKER_00: So that amplification, sure, it grows the show, but the more you do it and the more you continue to repurpose content that you already have and engage in conversations by starting that initial conversation, it has a ripple effect that will in turn impact the brand as a whole.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: And that's stage four.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And then that stage five is going one step further to say, as we grow the brand, how can we prove the overall value and growth to the business?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: What is this looking like in dollars and cents?
37:59
SPEAKER_00: How am I flowing into our CRM and into our database to say, how is this content impacting revenue numbers, right?
38:07
SPEAKER_00: So token Ring could say, okay, we've grown our, we've grown our audience, we're reaching these people.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Here's all of these different ways that we can tell these stories, that we can have these real human stories about how our product has made life easier, has made business easier, has made things more secure in this really cool, unique, and different way.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Here's all these really neat human-level stories that more and more people will engage with and grow the audience.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: And then how can we use those stories across the different marketing marketing channels that we have?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: So use those stories that are told on the podcast to write an even deeper story on the blog, to reach out to people on social media who will, especially because it's cybersecurity, will be really interested in saying, okay, how is this ring making life easier for people and actually making things more secure?
38:54
SPEAKER_00: That generates interest in the brand as a whole, that they can start to say, okay, how is this actually leading to sales over time?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love that.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: So for the token team, the trick is to get going.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: I think in the hardware security world, I'm gonna limb and say there is no podcast about hardware security, let's say.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: So maybe that's the way to go, or they they could give a uh a name or a focus around the ring idea.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Just start producing something.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they could be the Lord of the Ring.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: The Lord of the Ring.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking uh WTF uh MFA, right?
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Might be a funny title of that.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Start doing it, right?
39:33
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they've got their they're launching.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: I think uh recording this in early December.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: I think they're launching literally this month with uh first hardware being shipped, so it's coming soon.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: They could have their early adopters on there talking about their life before and then uh what they're excited about.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I wonder if there's an angle to this as well that people might be a little bit intrigued about how the heck do you get a MFA device into a ring?
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there might be a kind of geeky thing about you know the the journey they went on trying to figure out how to do it might be kind of interesting.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Two or three ideas like that, then they can take a step back and say, okay, let's move to show creation.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: What's worked, what's not worked, what it'd be like doing, what was a real pain in the ass to do.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: And then start, you know, creating from there.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: And then seeing what resonates, and based on what resonates, starting to grow their audience because they know more about, okay, who is this for and what's raising resonating, and how can we continue to grow our audience?
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And then how can we use all of these stories about hardware in cybersecurity and people want to learn more?
40:32
SPEAKER_00: They can start to repurpose and reuse those stories as use cases and testimonials and get it in the hands of their sales team.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's where that ripple effect and that really that flywheel starts to take off, where they're capturing these conversations as a podcast, but it's about so much more than a podcast.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: And they're building trust by telling stories that are really human-led.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the thing it takes people a little bit the time to realize, just what you're talking about there.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: The shift from I'm creating a podcast to create a podcast to then move it to the center of our of our strategy and say, you know, if we can just nail this, yeah, there's so much that comes from this.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: The incremental work isn't as big as you might think it is, to then have this other stuff coming off it.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: It becomes a very powerful core.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if there's a person, obviously I'm making this up, but if there's a person that is a an early adopter customer that it has a really cool story about a time that they, you know, were using the ring and and it came in really handy for this reason, and they tell the anecdotal story on a podcast, that's a really interesting podcast episode.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: But then you can use a clip on the website of a customer talking about how that product made a difference in their life, in their business, and their whole situ in their security situation, right?
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And then you can use that and you can create a blog post about it that is also kind of acts as a testimonial, and you can use it all over social media.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's where you don't have to attack all of those different channels separately.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: You can say, okay, what can we?
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Instead, you say, we already have this conversation.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: How can we break up this conversation to fuel all those different channels in a way that's really efficient and really effective and is going to drive more and more interest in the business.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: And what I love about uh how you've approached this podcast, which I think is a there's a lesson to be learned for people, is that you know, you you run Casted, you're obviously very passionate about the success that you can provide and the value you provide for your customers.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: What you've done for probably only about 30 seconds on this whole episode is talk about the intricacies of what Cassid actually does, right?
42:35
SPEAKER_01: But people are gonna come off this thinking that Lindsay is an expert in companies launching podcasts and uh how to make them successful and get the impact that they want to do.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: By default, they believe you're gonna be that person, even though you haven't really talked very much about Cassid itself.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a lesson when you're thinking about starting your own podcast.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you talk about the area, talk about evangelize the problem, evangelize the category, evangelize the the way to approach it, but don't sit there and evangelize or pitch your product.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And well, thank you.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that really is important.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: You have to, again, know who is it for and why are you doing it.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's not about what is my product and what are the features.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: It's about what is this industry, who is my audience, and what matters most to them.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: And so don't forget that as you speak and also as you bring guests on to serve your audience well.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's great.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: That's a great note to finish up on, Lindsay.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: Really enjoyed the conversation today.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: If someone wants to get in touch because they're thinking about how the heck do we do this and we could do with some help and or we have one already, and we're now at stage two or three or four, and we need some help.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: What's the best way to get hold of you?
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: Casted.us is probably the easiest way.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: That's our website.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: And then you can also find the maturity curve there.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: And there's an assessment that you can take to understand if you do have a show already, uh, where it is on the maturity curve and start to get some advice about how to ascend through the curve and see more value.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And I'll wrap up by saying, you know, one of the things I'm pretty passionate about these days is that cybersecurity is a very noisy market.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of companies, there's three, 20 US, either 3,000 or 4,500 companies.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Very noisy, a lot of the same buzzwords, just used in a different order.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes different is better than better, is the phrase I use.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Doing something different is better than trying to be better.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, rather than crafting an even better blog post, why not launch something that's different to what everyone else is doing and use?
44:32
SPEAKER_01: That to build the trust that Lindsay was talking about.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: So the different is better than better.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And what you'll find as you get into the podcasting arena, it's actually not that difficult to get going.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: If you just stick the course and see where it might go to, you'll realize tremendous benefits by doing that.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: So you know, obviously, I'm a huge advocate of podcasting in general.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: I really like the way that Castet and Lindsay's approaching uh how to help the P2Bs in this market.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Lindsay, enjoyed the conversation.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Many thanks.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: Wishing you all the best for 22-22, finishing up here and also into 2023.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: You too.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for this.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for letting me come uh yammer about podcasting on your podcast.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Nah, what a fun.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, that was a super fun episode because obviously I'm in the podcast world and Lindsay knows our stuff inside and not.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Really interesting all with the chat that people like that.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully you all found that interesting too, either as a completely new idea or one that you've been mulling over and thinking about, well, what might that mean for us?
45:27
SPEAKER_01: I bet you've got a bunch of takeaways.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I've got three that I think are worthwhile pointing at.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: The first one is that generally speaking, podcasts are untapped.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, it may sound like a lot that there's a million podcasts out there that are active, but in the general scheme of things, it's not that many, right?
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's just not that many where there are companies that are doing podcasts.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: And if you go down to the cybersecurity marketplace, there are even fewer cybersecurity companies that are running podcasts.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: So there's an untapped nature to this that allows you to go out there.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: And as I said at the end, there, different is better than better.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Doing something different, at least, is something that you'll be able to do by doing it this way.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: The second thing that I want you to take away from this is the idea of just starting.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: If you're a founder or CEO, you get it, right?
46:14
SPEAKER_01: You just started your business.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: But some of my podcasting, there's lots of head trash to get in the way of saying, well, it's not right for us, or I don't know how to do it, or do we have the right equipment?
46:24
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, it's not that difficult.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: You can get going pretty easily.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think the way to do this is to start off, as Lindsay was saying, by saying, you know, who are we doing it for and why are we doing it?
46:35
SPEAKER_01: Think about your audience and think about the big why, what it means for you.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Start with that and then start getting going with just recording things and worrying about the future a little bit later on.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: I remember when I started, I was nervous about starting this podcast.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: And uh the thing that actually propelled me forward was I said, you know, I'm not too worried about the quality of the first two, three episodes, because frankly, no one's really gonna listen to it.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: Your downloads are gonna be very, very low at the start, right?
47:01
SPEAKER_01: So the good news is it's not gonna suddenly hit a million downloads in your first few episodes, and therefore, you know, anything that you screw up or doesn't send that great isn't such a big thing.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: But that's the only way to start, get started and learn from there.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: So I think that the idea of just getting started is so important.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: And the third thing is to think about how you, as you get started, how you can transition from treating the podcast as something on the side that we kind of get to if we can into something that might be at the center of your content strategy.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: As I said in the episode, you know, for me, and I think I'm like a lot of people, you know, just jot down some notes about what I know the best about.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: And I can I can riff off those about all sorts of things.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: And I know from interviewing founders and CEOs on this podcast, is they don't put hours of prep into the interviews, and they sound great when they come on.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: And the reason they sound great is they know their subject material already, right?
48:00
SPEAKER_01: And all they need to do is say, here's some questions, which I think Andrew's gonna ask me.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Let me just jot down a quick couple bullets for myself and I'm good.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: And that's the way to think about this, right?
48:10
SPEAKER_01: If you stay in the comfort zone of the area that you know best about, which is your market, your subset of the market, your customers, things like that, this doesn't have to be, you know, hours and hours of prep to be able to do an episode.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: It should be something that you can spend 15 minutes, put some bullets together, and off you go.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: So if you put that at the center, then quite easily what you're gonna do is create all these ancillary things on the side, whether it be social media posts or snippets for videos to go on on YouTube or video, on Vimeo, or whatever channel you're using.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: A lot can come from this if you put the podcast itself at the center.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think for many organizations, they're gonna realize that.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: And then going down the line, they're gonna say, okay, let's start doing that more and more.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: So love the conversation with Lindsay.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Really enjoy what Cassidy is doing.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: It's such a needed facility in the marketplace, and uh wishing them all the best for this year and beyond.