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Leaving Her for Him: What Happens Next Will Surprise You · The Conscious Divorce

• Justin: Hey, before we get into today's episode, I want to say something briefly. The show has always been about one thing, navigating divorce in a way that doesn't destroy you or the people you love. That means we talk about real stories, all kinds of them. Today's guest is a man who came out as gay to his wife, and together they built what many people who know them called one of the best divorces they've ever witnessed. If that's new territory for you, I want you to stay with it. because the principles at the heart of this story, honesty, intention, putting your kids first and refusing to let fear run the show. Those are universal. They belong to everyone. So whoever you are and however you got there, welcome in this conversation. But before we get started, a quick note, I'm a certified divorce coach, not a therapist, attorney or financial advisor. Nothing on this podcast is legal, financial or mental health advice. The conversations we have here are meant to inform, inspire, and give you a starting point, not a finish line. If you're going through a divorce, please work with the appropriate licensed professionals for your specific situation. Now with that said, let's get into it. So what happens when the most loving thing you can do for your spouse is tell them the truth that changes everything? My guest today sat with that question for years. He was married. He was a dad. He was building a life that looked exactly like it was supposed to look. And underneath all of it, he was carrying something he hadn't said out loud to anyone. When he finally did say it, he didn't blow his family apart. He and his wife made a choice together to do something rare. They dismantled their marriage consciously, intentionally, and with genuine care for each other and their daughter. TJ shimled is a life coach, a real estate investor, a magician, and a man who now lives in Spain with his partner, Tyler. Chasing a life he spent decades suppressing. his daughter Opal has watched her father show what it looks like to live out loud. And his ex-wife, she's considering moving to Spain herself. I'm Justin Milrad and this is a Conscious Divorce Podcast. And this is one of the most human conversations I've ever had on this show. Welcome, TJ. T.J. Shimeld: Thank you, Justin. to be here and sharing my story. Justin: Happy to have you. TJ, let's start at the beginning, not the beginning of the divorce, but the beginning of you, because I think people need to understand what was there before any of this unraveled. Now, when did you first know? Not when you told anyone. When did you know? T.J. Shimeld: Yeah, so that is a time of discovery, of a length of time that so many people question, you know, how ⁓ come didn't know when you were younger? How did miss the signs and all of that? And growing up a society that I didn't have of that representation of what gay meant to be in life. And so I just didn't recognize it in myself all until much And there the clues and subtle throughout life. The moment of my story where it came to the forefront was we had just our family, married wife, Jennifer. And our daughter Opal was just born. were living in Massachusetts we decided that we wanted her to grow up with trees. you know, we lived in a in Massachusetts, Beverly Mass, and we made a big leap and moved down to North Carolina to start a life. had a wonderful job that could transfer good benefits. ended up a house, ⁓ all of that. We ended up having the grandparents follow us down. there was one evening we were driving home from my grandparents or my parents' house, my daughter's grandparents. And we ended up getting sort of forced off the road by a oncoming traffic in our lane. There was a guy passing in a no passing zone. We veered off the road, ended up coming back on. I sort of overcorrected. We got hit by the oncoming traffic my hand went through the ⁓ side ⁓ as was the driver. Fortunately, my child were okay it, but I shattered the bones in my left hand, broke my clavicle. I had the dust from the airbag in my eye. And I just remember crawling out of the wreckage to edge the road, up. at the stars, what I could see, my glasses were gone and broken. And there were two things I thought of in that moment. Number one is that I could not die. I was a sole provider. My wife was a stay at home mom. They needed me. And number two, that I never told my wife that I was gay. that sort of that turning point that it took literally almost losing my life ⁓ to wake up to who I was, authentically speaking. Justin: an incredible ⁓ moment. ⁓ I'm sorry you had to go through the accident to get to that place, but I'm glad everyone was safe and T.J. Shimeld: Yeah, I mean, truly, And, you in that moment, the clear communication could with my wife ⁓ that I be okay is you know, I'm an author, a speaker, ⁓ life coach, as you said, and had my notebooks in the car and... ⁓ Justin: Amen. T.J. Shimeld: of all my ideas of book ideas and things I wanted to do and write and businesses and all of that sort of thing. And all I told Jennifer was go get my notebooks. that was ⁓ clearest way to let her know that I had a future, that I was okay. I was going to be okay. It took months to get the movement back in my hand. I was never supposed to move my hand again. ⁓ months of therapy, six hours a day. I worked on that with using magic, manipulation ⁓ techniques and to help my hand back. And ⁓ through of time, because now the focus, I was out of my, out of work. couldn't work. Fortunately, I had good that pulled us through, but in the back of my mind, there was always that thing need to tell her. you need to tell her. And I was still pushing it back saying, ⁓ well, you once my hand gets better, once, the heals, once I get back to work, once it was always pushing it down the road. Justin: Sure. So let me ask you a question. So you were married for a period of time, and in the earlier years of your marriage, you knew. How do you hold onto the earlier years of your marriage, the genuine parts of it as real and true, even knowing what you know now? T.J. Shimeld: Well, was my ⁓ school sweetheart. You know, we met in high school doing a play, The Mouse That Roared, and I played Professor Cokin's, you know, kind of wild scientist that created this bomb. And she my, my assistant in the play. ⁓ And we got along great begin we were friends before we started dating. I really think that is the truth of it all is that I thought, you know, we made better friends than we did marriage partners. a lot of times people ask, you know, well, wouldn't it have been better if you just stayed friends? And it's a yes and no, because if we didn't married, wouldn't have had our daughter, that I don't regret any of that. had inklings about gay before we got married ⁓ and was when we were in college and was clinical psychology and very first sort coming to terms with I In all my wisdom as a psychology student, I knew you can't suppress these things. But I thought, you know, I'm going, I have a girlfriend, we're going to get married. I'm going to suppress this. I'll take care of it. I'll be the first human being to be successful at doing this. And, you know, was one that I know there are Justin: Yeah. T.J. Shimeld: People in my situation discover that they're gay later in life and that may lead them to cheating on their partner or something like that. That was to me a thought in my mind that I made a I married this person. When ⁓ I finally accepted myself that yes, I am gay, I thought, well, that's for another time. that maybe way in the future after she passes or something, if I'm still alive and she dies first, but I was committed to our marriage. And as we say, for better or for worse, right? The turning point for me was the car accident. Justin: Yep. T.J. Shimeld: because I knew I had to be truthful with her because she's, know, and it was that kind of brush with death that really brings forth what's important. And in a marriage, honesty is a big piece of that. So I knew I needed to tell her. I did what, of got us to that was actually with car accident and, you know, we, had benefits, ⁓ you know, some money coming in, but our insurance ⁓ said that they weren't going to cover with the medical bills and the stress and all of that. So it was in the midst ⁓ of ⁓ a really big fight. that we had never really fought before. That's how well we worked together, that never really had a big all out fight. I had never raised my voice with her, you know, after all these years through high school and college, and now we're married. I felt, that fight, I was very mad at her. And, you know, the of it all, ⁓ at that moment, I like there was no way I could forgive her. ⁓ how do we get this? How we get past this? And that's when it came up in me. Is there's something you're keeping that you're not being honest about. This is how you forgive her by sharing this. with her. So we sat down evening and just was very matter of fact of that, you know, this is something that I have come to with that I had been struggling. I didn't really know. I didn't understand, but now I'm accepting in myself that I'm gay. And I said, I don't know what that means us, ⁓ our marriage, but I just thought you should know. And her response, you know, the very first thing she said was, well, she said, when I first met you in high school, she said, I thought you were gay, like you and your best friend, I thought you two were a couple. You know, so it was almost like no surprise to her at all that I was gay. It was more of a surprise that, we became girlfriend, boyfriend and got married and all of that. So it was like it. And all stories had gone through in my mind of, what's she gonna say, what we're gonna do, that this means we have to get divorced, means this, this means that, this means she'll hate me, And the reality sometimes is much more interesting. than all the stories that we come up with. And her response was being very supportive. She did, have questions. We spent, I think it was a night discussing this and talking about this and what it meant. And we did... for a little while try at her suggestion. said, well, you why don't you try it? We could like have an open marriage. And me being me, had to research this. I had to that's this work. What's an open marriage mean? How does that work? so either of us did anything. so we researched, we both Well, I thought it only fair if I could go out and see someone, then she could go out and see someone. And so we tried that for a time. Interestingly enough, got jealous and that we close the marriage. But we ended up together from the I told her till the time we really decided that we needed to. to change something and split up. It was like almost a 10 year period. Justin: man. T.J. Shimeld: And during that 10 years, because I thought I was being strong for her, I thought that getting a divorce would hurt our daughter. I thought maybe, once she's 18, And I did seek help. I loved your opening there that, I... understood I can't do this alone. And I did start seeing a therapist because I felt stuck because I didn't quite feel I belonged in the gay world. I didn't quite feel like I belonged in the straight world. And so I just felt so alone. And I started speaking with a therapist who the moment of clarity came when she said to me, her exact words were, do you want your daughter growing up thinking this is what love looks like? And I even get chills saying it now because it just my eyes because realized that I'm shrinking myself appease others and not living I authentically am. And that's teaching my daughter that she can't be who she is. She has to get everyone approval. I thought I was helping my wife at the time and realizing that I could never fully love her. that deserves that full love. I thought it was love between us. Like I said, it was a friendship. It was great. But what I have now with my husband, Tyler, that I can show him all of sides. It's a different sort of feeling than what had with my wife and being able to. set her free, to speak. She was able to find the love of her life. And, was a, I thought I was being so selfless of being staying in the for her, for our daughter. And really I being selfish because I wasn't allowing her to experience love. I wasn't allowing my to see what true love looked like. And so that moment with therapist changed everything. And that's we sat down and decided that what this is going to look like for separating and getting a divorce. Justin: So here's what strikes me about what you just described. And I want to honor something. That moment wasn't just hard for you. was hard for her in ways that are different and honestly in ways that sometimes get overlooked. So my question for you TJ is how did you navigate your own grief for the marriage alongside with relief that you are also probably feeling now that you are outed by yourself and you can live the life that you truly wanted and felt compatible with. T.J. Shimeld: honestly difficult there a loss because there's future I of growing old together, of what that looks of sitting on the front porch together. And I just remember going, driving home after we had separated in the state of North Carolina. the laws that you need to live apart for a year before you file for divorce. And so once that was established she moved out into an apartment, and I remember driving and seeing this ⁓ old couple, man and a woman taking their garbage out to the together. And it just brought to my eyes because I thought, you know, what did I do that I had marriage and now I'm stopping this because I'm I'm never going to have that. I'm never going to grow old with someone. I'm never all of these things. So, there, ⁓ there was a struggle. I go through a period of depression after divorce. ⁓ thankfully I had people in my life that could help me with that. had the therapist and talking people really helped me that Because, even though it was something I, I asked for, it was also that of that, as I said, that of that story. that I had in head for my whole life of what life would look like. And now all of a sudden there was just this blank screen and that's the unknown that's scary. taking that step the unknown. with the support and knowing I had people to talk to, I had friends, I had family that were all very supportive at the time, that I knew it would be okay at the other end. I didn't know how, didn't know what that would look like, but having to rely on, ⁓ was because trying to do it alone was... Justin: me. T.J. Shimeld: scary. We're social beings. We need to have people in our lives like yourself, like a coach, like a therapist, lawyers, whatever that looks like, friends, just somebody outside of us to talk to. Because when we get into those stories in our head, that's where life can go down pretty quick. Justin: can definitely be a scary place in our heads sometimes. And is where your story goes from interesting to instructive. Because the two you didn't just decide to be civil, you decided to be architects of your awakening, your YOU 2.0 No lawyers, a custom plan, living in separate houses as you were required for your year-long separation in North Carolina. So I wanted to. T.J. Shimeld: Yeah. Justin: understand a little more about how that worked. Were there any non-negotiables that you both agreed on? T.J. Shimeld: Well, number one concern was our daughter. And I did want to hear a lot, the divorce is that the wife gets the children and the father gets to see his kids, maybe every other weekend, maybe on a holiday here and there. And, you know, that I can't live without my daughter. So that was something, a stipulation in the beginning that this is, we are co-parents. We split the time 50-50. We created a schedule that, Opal was in school at the time. So she was like third grade-ish when we separated. She it very well. It was ⁓ exciting time for her because now we that was best because I had the and benefits and all that, that I keep the house because if God forbid roof caved in or something, I'd be able to afford to fix it. She just graduated with a certificate in massage therapy and just started a new business and had clients and all of that. So she had the means to support herself. And so we basically sat down with our accounts and everything. We just divided it in half. She already had her car. I already had my car. So we just took that. But our big concern was more of Opal and what that would look like. And We worked out a schedule that, basically she was with me three days a week. She was with Jen three days a week. And on seventh day, which was the Friday, was her choice And she could choose be with me. She could choose to be mommy or my parents, we're just the town over. And she called them Mimi and Bapa. she could choose to be with Mimi and Bapu that day. And also cause we're, we're friends, we will have holidays together. We have to have, okay, you get her for Thanksgiving and I get her for Christmas or all of that. said, you know, we at that, that time too, right around then, Jen's mother had actually moved to the same town we were living in, to retire. And we ended up spending a lot of time. had, Sunday lunch at, Mamay's with mother. And we would meet as a family. We'd have our two cars and drive up and meet and have lunch there with her every Sunday. The holidays would either be ⁓ at her mother's house or my parents' house tend to toast Christmas and Thanksgiving. And so we just all continued because we still a family. And that's what I think a lot of the divorce situation and all of that, that people think like you're, yes, you're splitting up the family, but it's... also just a different lens of viewing the family through eventually expanding the family because then I met Tyler and then he came to these holidays Jen there and Jen met her boyfriend and he invited to be there too. So it just sort of expanded family group and ⁓ we were so afraid ⁓ of, I a lot of people are afraid of what divorce means for the child. And that's why so many of us want to just suffer through and on because we want the child to be okay. And they'll be okay. mean, Opal just felt twice amount of love. know, now she had, was so excited that she had two bedrooms. You know, she had mommy's daddy's bedroom it built that, structure of love still centered around her that, any expenses that came up with Opal, we would split 50-50. if it was hospital visits you know, for school, anything she needed, we would split all that 50-50. So. there was certainly some hurt and difficulty on both sides during this period. But we determined that, you ⁓ we were both his parents. And that was our number one concern. Justin: I think what's so beautiful about this is you put Opal first and you did this consciously and collaboratively. You know, I love when you and I spoke before this show, Opal Fridays and you Friday was all about Opal and that was, that was a non-negotiable. And you know, talk about this a lot on the show. Many people blow up their families, not because the situation's impossible, but because they can't regulate the moment. T.J. Shimeld: Yeah. Yeah. Justin: you know, panic, shame, anger, blame, that creates the wreckage. You know, what you two did was refuse to let the worst version of yourselves run the show. So, question to you is how did you regulate, yourselves to make sure that that you didn't blow up the show? And, even if ⁓ one thing what sort of advice could give to ⁓ the people listening? that sure you do this, otherwise it may go sideways. And I just wanna make one other point. You talk about family, you will always be a family, just the shape of the family changes. And I think that's what's really neat about it. And the research shows that if you handle divorce amicably and and ⁓ the kids see the parents fighting or arguing over things, that may have to be discussed in a back room, but just not in front of the parents, it's as if the parents were never divorced and therefore the kids don't have the additional potential issues that may come up when they're, ⁓ damage of what can happen in divorce. T.J. Shimeld: Yeah. ⁓ is wonderful aspect of this is course, of course, is emotions, of course is hurt, of course is shame and the guilt and all of it, the anger. And, we would, this was between me and this was ⁓ our negotiation. would sit I had actually sort of typed up. a document separation agreement and just sat down and said, let's like read this together and go through and discuss it. And, were ⁓ of it that, like immediately came like, should you get the Why can't I get the house? And then when we sat there and just discussed it, and I think that's the being open and honest about it. and trying to keep those emotions day because those emotions do come up, of course. And I you know, when I wrote part that I would keep the house and we would find an apartment for her is just as I said, that I had the steady and the steady income. And if something happened and then she, she like like dawned on her and was like, yeah, that's that's true. what would I do? I think the being open and and allowing the and ⁓ you know, there is something to said parenting of allowing children to see the arguments and the fights and stuff because they see how it's resolved. but there's parts of it at that age that Opal was that, you know, she didn't need to participate in our discussion of, which car do you get, which bit of silverware do you want to take? And as time went on to Justin: Mm-hmm. T.J. Shimeld: there were certainly things objects like mentioned in the opening. Now I'm living in Spain with my husband. And we were, ⁓ off the house and off our and ⁓ getting everything arranged and all of that, was first one before I like sold anything. You know, even if it was something I bought that was like in the house, had first dibs on it. I would go to her and say, Hey, you know, do you want dining room ⁓ that that was it something we had together, the dining room table. And it stayed with the house. But that the house was getting sold all of that, it's like all those furnishings, different things before I sold it. I gave her the option, you know, do you you want it to you, you know, it's yours if you want it. So it's keeping that. really those lines of communication open. trying keep the rational in I was what really helped. Again, going back to ⁓ the house thing that there was like a logical thinking behind it. I only thought it fair that, you know, what we had in the savings account that we would just split 50-50, you know, that just makes obvious sense. ⁓ was obvious that she keeps the car that she normally drives because that's like her car, even though we both bought it together, you so there, there were just different things of just keeping that, the logic and the rationale kind of behind it. And when emotions come up, ⁓ we discussed it, original separation agreement did change, you know, there were things in it that she said, well, you can do this or can I do that? And one of our stipulations too in it that keeping Opal in mind that we would not be talking negative about the person to And that was even a suggestion ⁓ too from my therapist at the time like, you you have to... You know, that's still the mother of your child. You don't need to talk bad about her or around Opal. don't need to, she sees you who you are and she sees her who she is and you don't need to add or subtract to that. And that was kind of, again, one of that centering around the child that was a non-negotiable for us that we were. supportive of each other and who we are and all of that. Justin: you for sharing that. You know, I want to slow it down a bit and ⁓ on your experience because in most divorce narratives, the person who stays gets written out of the story once the headline moment passes. And in stories like this, the straight spouse's experience is often the most overlooked of all. Research on heterosexual spouses in this situation tells us the most common issues they face are sexual rejection, challenges to their sense of the marriage, concern for their kids, and real crisis identities and beliefs. So processing all of this takes a lot of time and a lot of work. So what would you say this cost her that she might never say out loud, but that she's worked through? to add onto that, how has your friendship with her evolved since then? Is something that you actively tend, or did it just happen organically? And then I'm just going to say one other thing. You know, clearly things are working well you mentioned to me that she's considering moving to Spain and that's a remarkable outcome ⁓ about who she's becoming and her commitment to your daughter, but also your friendship post divorce. T.J. Shimeld: Yeah. Yeah, well, she certainly, I think she had lost because as we said, she had moved out into an apartment and she has been in apartments ever since. She never, with her business and all of that, never was able to purchase a house. since then. So I think that's of those things that that she sort of lost out on, I guess, from like a financial perspective. With that being said, though, knowing Jen, she having a of course, because that's like the American dream, right? You have a house and you're 2.5 children and all of that. But it was the ⁓ She hated to mow lawn she, all that kind of stuff. She's an as well and a painter. So she enjoyed painting the walls and different stuff and decorating. Justin: Mm-hmm. T.J. Shimeld: that sort of thing. But that was one of the things that like a very tangible loss to her in watching her trajectory. Because ⁓ we separated a few years after I became a real estate investor, so I several houses. And in fact, became one of my long-term tenants in one of my houses for period of time where she needed a place to stay and we had an availability and I had a business partner and all of that with the real estate and so we offered it to her and it worked well. looking at sort of the, and that says a little bit there too of our friendship that was established, I think Like the, year separation before have to file for divorce ⁓ in Carolina is it's, it's an interesting law. because it does give you almost like that, that trial, it's a trial separation period really that, you know, to see, okay, is this going to work? Is this, ⁓ know, the choice, instead of just diving right in and, Justin: That person. Sure. T.J. Shimeld: you as you said earlier, that so many people just, dynamics and the anger and the issue and just want to blow everything up. And, know, this gives you some space and some time. And during that time, you know, at first it was very difficult. Like I said, you know, we, tried an open marriage for a time and now we're still married, separated. And so ⁓ she dating and I found those pangs of jealousy. And, you know, it's just interesting how these emotions just, just are there, because that's, that's my wife. ⁓ Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, were different where it was difficult when we get together, for Sunday lunch ⁓ at her mother's house and Justin: still human. T.J. Shimeld: being there and sometimes it was very difficult moment to be there and smiling and putting on a grin and all of that when I was upset that, you know, she's dating somebody, know, what was me kind of thing. But as time went on, you know, it became that that reality and to when, you know, I started dating and. Justin: Mm-hmm. T.J. Shimeld: when I met Tyler and it was right around the time I met him, know, was him within that like same year that she met her in life. And I it for like that first time I was, you know, there was that excitement for her and to see and unfortunately, you they they have some great years together. He unfortunately passed away very early in ⁓ in life. little over a year ago, and to see the love that she had for him, and especially after his passing and how she keeps his memory alive and all of that is just so touching. And realizing that I was keeping her from that, know, in staying married. And so our friendship grew and now, you know, Opal's 20 years old now. She does have autism, so it's a level of care that she does need. So she'll always need some assistance. And Opal is here with me and Tyler in Spain. And that was something Jen had said that she said, don't be surprised if I show up on your doorstep one day. That she sees kind of the life. Justin: Hmm? T.J. Shimeld: we've made here, you know, we had gone with a car accident and all that. ended up having to, leading up to the divorce too, we ended up, we were going through the divorce ⁓ we ended up having to declare bankruptcy because of, ⁓ the medical bills and all of that And so we were divorce ⁓ all the emotions of separating and all of that all at once. she's that just our ability here to, ⁓ hearing stories of, health care here that, we pay a monthly fee into it to have a private insurance here. but it's like a fraction of a cost of what it is in the United States. Jen just sees kind of the different lifestyle we have here, the food, the sun, the, you know, ⁓ it's of that, that kind is very intriguing to her. And, when we chat and text and all of that all the and she sends me links to, you know, this TikTok video and that thing, you know, so. we've really grown closer, oddly enough, through the years. that one of the things is we met in high school. So we grew up in the same area and all of that. And I remember saying to a friend one time that I could never have that level of intimacy with anybody else because we have so many things in common from our ⁓ growing up And he said, no, you will find someone and it'll be that level of intimacy just because you didn't grow up in the same area or all of that, there's still something that can appear. And it has, it has. And I feel so fortunate to have Tyler my life has helped me with so much and is so supportive and my businesses ⁓ and else. Justin: were definitely blessed and you know this process that could have been horrible was managed well and I think most importantly you had a ⁓ partner in her, ⁓ you the mother of your child, you know, ⁓ who worked you and put Opal first accepted ⁓ you for who were. So my next question is, you know, now that you're living this authentic relationship with Tyler, you have a real reference point for what joy looks like. So, tell me a little bit about that journey. You know, how's it been? Do you feel, you know, like you are truly living your authentic life now? T.J. Shimeld: You know, I, really do. And when I decided, I've, written books and author and on stage. And I started this journey doing life and initially I was working with people, to myself who were kind of stuck a nine to five job and wanted to. ⁓ to kind of leave that and build business based on their passion. And like I did with real estate investing, I was able to leave my nine to five job. And I seeing that one-on-one transformation with people and working one-on-one rather being on stage. I give this great motivational speech and everyone applauds, they buy my books and great, but I don't know if they actually change. And That's where I began. year later, and of my mentors in coaching said to me, you know, you are going to find your niche in the area your life ⁓ that you don't to talk about. And for me, it's exactly our conversation today, gay, coming later in life, ⁓ all that was the area of my life that I just didn't like to discuss. And moving of United ⁓ coming to Spain, seeing difference in culture that we were lived in Madrid for about a year and a half and now we live in the south Malaga area. And remember I had never gone to a pride event in the U.S. I was scared to go, honestly. And we went to our first pride event and it like the entire city of Madrid out for it. There was ⁓ the old, Grandfather and grandmother sitting there waving the flag and there was, straight families little kids coming out to watch the Pride Parade and it just felt so supportive. And here I was able to hold my husband's hand for the first time and not feel ashamed, not feel like I had to watch, ⁓ you know, it's such a natural ⁓ part. Justin: Hmm. T.J. Shimeld: of the culture here that people are very accepting of gay couples. with it allowed this authenticity to come out even more so than I possible. And then now ⁓ wanting to that talking about my story and coming later in life, that I can now me. ⁓ needed help during those 10 years. know, it ⁓ take a, you know, almost a deadly car accident in 10 years of debate your mind to come out to live your authentically. And so, ⁓ you know, Tyler has a big help in that process and changing in my focus my business. ⁓ Justin: Yeah. T.J. Shimeld: to help people that are going through that if it's discovering that they're gay or how do you approach that conversation if you are married? How does that look? to show that there's hope, that I talked about that just that blank screen ⁓ had, like I just had no vision of what my future was. Never I think ⁓ or that I was going to live in Spain. Never did think that I would have a husband. Never did I think that. Justin: Sure. T.J. Shimeld: my daughter would be here with me. of that has been a joyous along the way. And I can't wait to see what the brings. Justin: Yeah, you know, and while it was a surprise, there was a lot of intention there and there was a lot of deliberate actions that got you there. And I think that's that's what's beautiful. You know, divorce for some people can mean destruction. And in your case, it was that ⁓ was about rebuilding. So my question for you, you you your life coach. So my next question, I think people will really pay a lot of attention to because it would be tremendous advice for people. T.J. Shimeld: Yes. Justin: who are currently still in the closet. So what do you tell the person who's still in the marriage while they're in the closet and terrified what comes next? T.J. Shimeld: Mm. So the biggest advice to breathe. realize are that it's okay. I sometimes wish that gay was choice, some people think. I tried to choose differently realizing that, you the step in it all is yourself. Justin: Hmm. T.J. Shimeld: and that this is you were made, this is how you developed, this ⁓ what God gave you. And that and realizing again journey of honesty, of first being with yourself is number one. Then the second honesty is being honest with your loved ones ⁓ and having that conversation Um, I find really it's, it's, it's really, it boils down to three sentences. A lot of times I suggest that, you know, I did it kind of not necessarily the right way. It was kind of late at night and, know, both tired and all of that and open up this big conversation. You want to do it at a time, you know, maybe after dinner or you go for a walk together and just saying, and being honest that, you know, number one. I have been struggling with something that I want to share with you. Number two, I'm gay. And number three, don't know what journey means for me for us, but I want be with you and this together. And then just seeing it goes from there, because we get so stuck, and we talked about it earlier, in the stories of our heads, of what are they going to say? How are they going to react? What's going to happen? This is going to happen. This is going to happen. ⁓ we get into this survival mode. And that's why... taking a breath. A lot times taking a short breath in, longer breath out, and just letting nervous system know that you're okay, that you will get through this. There are of people who have gone through it and you don't need to go through it alone. As I said, I was lucky enough to be seeing a therapist at the time when of this was unfolding. So there are professionals there. There are life coaches. There are ways of ⁓ a community. I have a Facebook group. I run private Facebook called Leaving Her for Him, where we support people. along that journey, if it's just starting to come out to yourself, if it's the wife significant other, or they're on that other side building their second act. And, you that's of the things I love in the group. We're small group. We just hit a hundred people, just got over a hundred. And seeing that there's people on every step of journey. and that everybody's journey is different that we need to just be that and honest with ourselves ⁓ and our loved ones ⁓ and get it. I promise. ⁓ Justin: That's great advice. You know, on the show, I talk about a framework I call you 2.0. The idea that divorce when done with intention isn't a destruction, it's a redesign. There three moves. There are three moves in that process. The first is reclaim, taking back ownership of your identity and your future. The second is reboot, rebuilding from a foundation that's actually true. And the third is become, stepping into who you were always meant to be. What you and your ex did is the fullest expression of that framework I've ever heard from a guest on this show. You both reclaimed something, you both rebooted, and you're both, from what it sounds like, in the middle of becoming. That's not a divorce story. That's a liberation story for two people at once. TJ, I'm genuinely grateful you came on and shared this for anyone listening who's in a similar place, either in the role TJ was in or in the role his wife was in. I hope this conversation gave you something to hold on to. The truth is hard, but the cost of not telling it is higher. If this episode landed for you, please share it with someone who needs it. You don't have to explain why you're sending it, just send it. I've written two books that go deeper into the framework we talked about today. You 2.0 Divorce a Better Way Forward and the You 2.0 Workbook. Both are available on amazon.com. And if you're in the middle of your own divorce and you want to think through it with someone who's been in the room, I offer a free 30 minute consultation. No pitch, no pressure, just strategy. You can find everything at www.reclaimandreboot.me. TJ, before I let you go, for anyone listening who wants to follow your journey or work with you as a coach, where can they find you and how do they connect with you? T.J. Shimeld: you you Justin: ⁓ so T.J. Shimeld: Sure. Sure, I'm very active on Facebook. You can find me there. TJ Schimmel, that's T-J-S-H-I-M-E-L-D. I have my Facebook group as well, leaving her for him. Also, I have started a channel. So again, you can find me, TJSHIMELD on YouTube. And there's also the Quantum Magicians movement ⁓ is sort of that building of the second act for men who ⁓ are to the magicians of their own lives to build an authentic second And that will be on the web at quantummagicians.com. can find me there as well. Justin: Outstanding. So please, if you're going through something similar to what we talked about today, please go connect with TJ. And if this episode meant something to you, please take 30 seconds right now. Leave a review, hit subscribe or follow and share this with one person who needs it. You don't have to write a novel. Even a five star tap helps more people find this show. T.J. Shimeld: you Justin: That's how we grow this community. I'm Justin Milrad. This is a conscious divorce. Until next time, stay conscious. Thanks, TJ. T.J. Shimeld: Thanks, Justin.