Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Focus On The Mind, And The Body Will Follow, With Unna Goldsworthy

Transcript

Focus On The Mind, And The Body Will Follow, With Unna Goldsworthy · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to another edition of the podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Now, just before we do today's interview, I just wanted
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: to give a shout out to a few very special listeners.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: One of them is a leady called Mary Squires maybe
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Mary Squires, I'm not quite sure of the pronunciation. I
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: have been doing some work with her husband, Morgan. They're
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: about to go to the UK, and Morgan tells me
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: that she is an avid listener and is the poster
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: girl for this podcast does absolutely everything that we talk about.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: So well done you, Mary, Slash Marie, and hope you
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: guys have a wonderful time in London. Second one, I
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: want to talk about a little bit of a shout
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: out a.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Guy called Martin. I will not give his second name.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: He just reached out to us and said he's been
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: going through a difficult period and found that the Gratitude
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: podcast that we did has been an absolute mood change
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: ref him. It's been fabulous. So just say, hey, Mark,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: keep up the great work. And then the third and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: final shout out I want to give to you talking
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: about poster girls and poster boys.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Peter Bush.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Peter is the principal of caliana specialist school this is
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: for kids with a whole host of different learning difficulties,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: and he and his team do an absolutely fabulous job.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And I did a workshop for the team all the
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: teachers and Peter just and his team just jumped on board.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: They changed the menu in the canteen, They took crappy
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: foods off, they put a lot of healthy foods on.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: They actually subsidized healthy foods for the kids. They got
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: them to be growing stuff that they then use, used
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: it in the canteen, which is just fabulous, and instigated
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of movement snacks throughout it, and brought in
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: a trainer for the staff to do exercise paid for
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: by the school. And Peter himself lost twenty five kilos
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: after the guys went on My program, which is just tremendous.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: And I saw him recently at the past conference and
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: he is an absolute legend. So Peter, I tipped my
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: hat to you, sir. Now let's get on with this
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: week's podcast.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: In the Goals. Are they welcome to the podcast?
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Hi Paul, how are you?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I am fabulous? What about yourself?
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: That's a good writing, that's a very good writing.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: You know what it's like?
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Hi? You?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm good. It's like, fuck off, come on, you
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: can do better than good.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: I can do better than good. I am content and
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: mindful at the moment how I feel, but I am
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: also kind of rugged up as well. I've got this.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: I cannot figure out which room to go into to
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: be comfortable at the moment. It's so cold when we are.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: I hate being that guy that talks about how cold
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: it is, but it's actually blowing my mind. You know,
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: you go out of your temperature control rooms and you're like,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: oh my god, it's like a slap in the face
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: at the moment.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So where a botch of you at the moment.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: I'm on the peninsula down in the morning, the other
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: side of Milbs.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize we're near I didn't realize we were nearborsh.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'm a montent laser.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I forgot you were Analyiza. Yeah no, I'm just up
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: the road.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I could have done this fierce.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I tell you what, I tell you. What's cold. I
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: was in freaking Camber yesterday. Oh yeah, that ship's cold,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and I had a cold shot. Oh my god, Oh wow,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: wakes your ass up. In fact, I'm going to Camber
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: quite a lot and I actually enjoy it at this
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: time of year because it's so bloody cold in the morning, right,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: it's like zero degrees and the coal shower is unbelievable,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: but it's just it just wakes your ass up and
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: gives you like a massive hello.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: And then and then.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: The sun comes out and then it's it's beautiful in
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: the afternoon. It's like twenty degrees or eighteen clear skies.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It's actually quite nice camber this time. Ye, no wind,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: no rain. Yeah, all that's very cool.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And we are going to talk about health behavior change,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: which is a big, massive topic, and no doubt we
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: will go down lots of rabbit holes, but let's start
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: high level. Actually, let's introduce you first, So exercise physiologists
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: mindset coach, just talk a little bit about your journey
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: and why you got interested in a exercise physiology and
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: then why you're going to interest it in the whole
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: mindset thing. I think it might be quite similar to
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: my journey and that space.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think the way way way back when
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I was a little kids, you know, I was in sports,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: and probably a little slither of it that I only
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: understand now is I used to go off running I
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: lived in the country and I go running off between
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: the paddocks and all that kind of stuff, and thought
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: it was thought it was a healthy thing to do.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: But now looking back and understanding my story, it was
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: literally me running away. So fitness was this. It was
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: also an avoidance tool. There were places where I'd feel
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: quite confident and couldn't get that confidence somewhere else, So
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: that as an adult and as a practitioner, eventually became
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: really quite powerful for going Okay, hang on a second,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: is this exercise or the pavior going about actually serving
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: a healthy purpose or is it fulfilling something else that
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: needs a little bit of examination behind it as well?
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: That opens a massive hold, sorry, into the whole orthorexia condition,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: which we will come back to. But I just wanted
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: to plant that seed, nigh, so jump sorry, jump back
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: into your shof Yeah.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: And then it became just wanting to liking exercise. Clearly
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: that was a place where I felt safe, so you know,
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: it was on my mind. So I liked the idea
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: of helping people with exercise, but I didn't really understand
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: what that was when I was younger, and then interestingly,
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: I struggled with mental health and arexia. Later in my life,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: in the later years and into the end of high school,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: start of academia world, and in that time, my pe
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: teacher introduced us to the inside of a muscle and
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: I was like, that is all for me. I was like,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: that is amazing. How was that pert so kind of
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: really zooming in and like going, oh my god, that
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: is happening inside me just blew my mind. And that's
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: where I was like, Okay, that's where I want to go.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: So I headed off there at university. And then there's
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of people that believe that
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the thing that we get pulled to is ultimately the
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: thing we're trying to fix in.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Ourselves, certainly with psychologists.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, apologies to the psychologists.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I'm only half joking.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Only half. And interestingly enough, I didn't have the I
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: didn't have the wherewiout to trust myself to do psych
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: as my major in my undergrad but I did have
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: a friend that did the psych subjects, and I would
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: go with him and just sit with him and you know,
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: listen and observe. My brother was a Youngian enthusiast, so
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: I learned from film and then later on I became
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: an AP and did all of that and working with people,
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: and a little bit of a collision of my own
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: interest in I can write the perfect program, but that
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: person can come back and will not have done it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: So my excitement, enthusiasm, whatever else goes into it versus
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: their reality, the balance of me not being mature enough
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: to understand or delve into their kind of life and
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: all those challenges and you evolve and you get better
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: as a clinician. But also somewhere in there, I was
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: having my own struggles and went off to see a
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: psychologist who was an act psychologist, and similar time a
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: friend had given me the happiness trap. Oh yeah, just
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: by chance, those two came together, and I started to go, oh,
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: so my set behavior change and my program don't naturally
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: just come together. I need to be able to understand
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: the workings of someone's story, what's going on, what's behind
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: the behaviors that get in the way, to then be
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: able to facilitate them to be able to actually do
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: what they want to do. So's that was kind of
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: this evolution of the version of me as an EP
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: at the moment.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite interesting because my story was reasonably similar
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: along with it a number of significant diversions. So I
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: did a master's in exercise science. Then I joined the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: military and had a diversion, but did a master's in nutrition.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: While I was doing the helicopter starch and rescue KME
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to Australia, set up in our mutual friend create Harper's
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: business as an EP and nutritionist, and after I was
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: writing programs and giving nutrition programs and go saying this
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: is perfect, this is all people need, and they just
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: wouldn't change. And that's when I went off and studied
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: neuroscience because I'm like, I need to understand what's driving
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: human behavior here, because you know, these people come with
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: a clear need. They're saying that they want to get fit,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: they want to improve their diet, and I'm giving them
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the perfect.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Program and they're just not doing it. What the hell's
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: It's such an agitation, is it? Because you lay your
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: head down at the end of that what have I
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: done wrong? What am I missing? So it's like this
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: purposeful pursuit that you're on when it feels unsatisfying because
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: you're not helping in the way that you want to.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: It's a real driver. It's yeah, it's cool that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Actually.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I remember I had a client, Rosemary, and she was brilliant.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: She'd come to me all the time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: She was an older lady, and I'd be exercising with her,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: and then I did all the EP stuff, right, So
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I did a whole heap of different testing on her,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: and then I was I was giving her all her
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: results around her her VO two from a submax test,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: and her strength and all this stuff. And then she
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: went said to me, Paul, I can see that this
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: is really interesting for you, but it means nothing to me.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: And I went home that night and I thought, fucking hell,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: She's right. You know, I'm talking about all this stuff
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: that's interesting. That's what actually stimulated me to create my
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: BIOEID software. Was gone, Hardy, I take all these numbers
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: that are relevant and interesting for an exercise scientist and
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: make them interesting and useful for a middle aged woman
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: who's my client. And so I and she was the
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: first client that I ran through my bioed software and
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: showed her that her biologically it's based on all of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: these normative data tables that I had that I created,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: spent months creating us. And then she went, Okay, now
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you've got me because her biological age was about sixty years.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Older important to me and it was like.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's when I sat down and did a bit
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: of motivational and interviewing about you know, where do you
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: want to get to? And bomb had a massive impact
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: on her because she was determined to get her biologically
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: age younger. Right, So let's talk about the whole thing
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: about motivation because there's so many people waiting for the
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: motivation fairy to come along and give them a dullop
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: of motivation and to get started.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So why is big, big, big question? Why do people
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: find health behavior change so hard?
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I think I think a massive thing is is because
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable there you have to go off autopilot. I
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: think a helpful phrase I found at the moment is
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: how does that goal fit in with your life? And
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: when you look down it and go okay, it's going
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: to take this many hours of exercise participation for you
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: to get to this point. At this amount of time,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: you're going to have to clear out your cupboards and
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: have a completely different dietary. If you want to do
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: it excellently, you're going to have to have a strong
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: conversation with your family about reallocating time, and so when
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: the goal doesn't actually fit in with your life, there's
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: discomfort around that as well, because it's a retaliation with
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: a partner, or it doesn't fit in with your work
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: life somehow, And then there's the actual discomfort of what
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: is physically and mentally required to do the thing, along
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: with just life is busy. I haven't fit this in
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: with my life, and the skill of adaptability as well,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: because I think if there's most of us, because I
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: guess we're not getting to make the decisions ourselves. We
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: have to rely on something that Paul said. And if
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: if we do it that way, but then something gets
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: in the way and you don't have that skill of
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: adaptability in your decision making or access to usk that question,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: then a lot of people just go, oh, well, it
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: didn't happen. So I think there's lots of elements to them,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and some are stronger for some people than others. But
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: as a human it is hard to feel discomfort. It's
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: quite natural for us to move away from it. So
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: if we haven't locked in our why and why things
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: are important to us, we can't then shift the internal
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: dialogue when things are hard and tired and uncomfortable why
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: we would continue to pursue something in that way. So
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: I think the missing cog for a lot of people
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: is not finding that person to have that conversation with.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: And I guess for some that are reading all the
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: self help books as well, but then not actually kind
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: of moving it across into your own behavior because that
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: has a level of discomfort to it as well, when
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: you've got to change your thought process or come to
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: an uncomfortable realization about you and the way you do something.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: So I think there's elements of discomfort that are hard
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: for people to lean into, and we just don't set
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: it up to fit into our life.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pretty big one about it fits in
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: with your life and actually having people think about because
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: we you know, we all create these goals. You know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: most people want to be fitter than they currently are
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of them we want to lose a bit
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: of weir it and go you know, if I'm fitter
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and I lose weir it, I'm going to feel a
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: lot better. And so they set these goals and they
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: get very enthusiastic at the start, but as you say,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: if they haven't actually gone Okay, so what is this
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: going to tick to get there? And how am I
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: going to fit all that in with being busy? You know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I've got kids, have got a job, of all of
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: that stuff. And then the conversation around the partner. I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: think what a lot of people don't realize is that
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: partners can either help them along or they can be saboteurs.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: And people go, what do you mean saboteurs? And it's like, well,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: who has ever you know, either been a smoker that
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: wanted to stop smoking or being a drinker and they're
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: trying to stop their drinking and either their partner or
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: their friends are just like offering them cigarettes, offering them
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: alcohol and stuff. And it's not so much that they
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: are being vindictive and they're trying to derel you and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: your goals. It's basically they see you changing a behavior
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: that makes them feel shit because they don't have the
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: will party change the behavior. So the best way to
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: justify their own behavior is to bring you down to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: their level.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Right, bring you back in. And it happens so often,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and also for the doer in some ways, it's hard
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: to not get drawn back because if you're the one
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: going off and doing the doing. You've got to be
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: able to do it by yourself. You've got to be
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: willing to wave goodbye and go off and do it
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: and have the other person not there. And then the
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: very tricky place when if people aren't celebrating each other, Oh,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: i'll see you doing a good thing, go for it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: I'll make the time. And that then we do need
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: the psychologist on the call for that one. For all
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the trickiness in you know that those things that make
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: it hard to be in a relationship as well, So
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: the trickiness of being in a relationship with yourself and
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: making decisions and then whatever complexity has come with the
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: partner as well. And yeah, what are the circumstances that
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: pull you out of your drive when you've made this
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: decision and you're on your way to try and make
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: these habits that are going to stick. Who's pulling you down?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's why I will have to say to people, Look,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: if you want to make these changes, who's in your
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: life and what are their behaviors and if they are
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: doing the behaviors that you're wanting to stop, go and
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: have a conversation with them. Ideally, see if they are
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: willing and keen to come along the journey.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: With you, because that can be great.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: But if they're not, have that conversation about not being
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: a saboteur. Yeah, because people do it unconsciously, right, They
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: sabotize others unconsciously, and often it's not vindictive.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It's just the fact that they.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Feed shit seeing you doing something that they would like
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: to do but don't have the will power of the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: motivation to do so. They just the easiest way is
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: to just to justify their own behavior by bringing you
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: back into the fold.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and also your connected habits, like at the end
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: of the night when you plan to do a stretched
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: session so that you're ready to go the next morning
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: with your early wake up and you get a good
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: night's sleep. If the way you've always connected is by
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: watching a show together or having a glass of wine, yes,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: all of that. The way you connect needs to change
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: as well. So the way you nurture your relationship might
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: have to take a shift as well, and it might
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: require that Okay, we still do to sit down and
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: you have that glass of wine, but I've got to
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: have the willpower to connect with you without the wine
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: as well. So what's mine.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Please don't offer me, Please don't offer me a bloody
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: glass of wine, because.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: They don't wave it under my nose.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, because in that presence, and this is the thing
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: that a lot of people don't understand. So you can
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: have great willpar and I'm not going to drink, but
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: as soon as your partner brings out a glass of alcohol,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: that is activating dopamine in your brain, right, And dopamine
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: is the chemical of gold directed behavior and motivation. So
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: this is what people don't As soon as you see it,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: as soon as you walk past the cake shop, right,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: there's that memory in your brain that creates an emotional sealience,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a drive to do it, releases dopamine which makes you
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: want to go and do the behavior.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: So it's really really hard.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: It's hard enough to be changing those behaviors, but then
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: whenever you see those things right in front of you,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that makes it so much bloody harder, doesn't it.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all the senses are you know, we're sensory. We
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: have a sense of things before we're aware of the
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: thought around them. And this is the tricky part, because
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: we're survived. We've got salivation over the wine because we've
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: seen it before we've even had the thought of wanting
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: it or deflecting it or any of those things. So
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: we do. It's funny, right because we talk about the
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: senses that we have, but in teroception and proprioception and
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: never in the conversation. And once we have an experience
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: with those, they can be or train them to be
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: more heightened. These can be maybe the more powerful ones
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: in terms of disruption of habits. And you know what
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: state am I in? This is the stat I mean
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: we're usually reached for a glass of wine. So what's
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the communication I need to have as soon as I
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: walk through the door to have that partner be in
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: my corner?
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that day.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Inter reception really really important because, as you say, there's
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: a little alarm that often goes off in people's brilliance.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's like six o'clock, it's onine o'clock, and it's subconscious.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: But talk to people about what interception is because we
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: need to include that as part of our senses.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with you.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So what it is and how can people enhance their interception?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I think you use breathwork to help people en hunter it,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: But just give people a sense of what that is
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: in some ways that they can improve it.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: At the absolute basic definition, it's your ability to be
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: aware of the internal of you and what it's doing.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: So an easy wood would be being able to sense
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: your heart rate, so be able to sit still and
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: know the rhythm of your heart and how it's beating.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: And then that comes over to you're getting ready for
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a podcast and it's with an interesting person and you
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: hope you're going to do well, so you notice your
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: heart rate going faster. That's fine. This is important for
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: me to be driven and have a level of interest
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: in talking to Paul. But if I am not, if
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: that's something that's going to go higher to an arousal level,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden I can't speak and
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: get my thoughts together. That's an indication of where I've
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: got to be aware of where is my internal body
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: at as an indicator for me to what I've got
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: to do to then bring myself to a state that's
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: going to be more appropriate for the staff meeting or
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: meeting up with someone that creates anger in me, and
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: I want to be there in my best version of myself.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: So having that interoception, Am I hungry? Am I thirsty,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: do I need to go to the toilet? Like it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: all the things we start we teach kids, but using
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: them as something that's important to us as well. I
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: know I'm a bit of a I've had trouble with
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: this in the past, where if I'm I've got a
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: higher arousal level, I'm trying to get the kids to
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: school on time, times slipped up in some way. You
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: know that you're meant to have this T shirt for
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: school and it's not clean, and now I'm trying to
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: wash it real quick. If my arousal levels up naturally,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I have less need for food. But then I go
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: right ahead and forget about food altogether. So my need
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: for food, and then I get to halfway through the morning,
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I'm like, why am I agitated?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Some people are completely the opposite as well, right, And
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I think I suspect I remember reading about this years ago.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I suspect this is whether you are sympathetic nervous system
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: dominant or HPA access system dominant under stress. So people
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: who are sympathetic nervous system dominant, it's more about adrenaline
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: and that will suppress appetite, whereas those are more HPA
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: access dominant, it's more releasing cortisol, which drives hunger. And
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: so some people eat when they're stressed, some people don't
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: eat when they're stressed.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Some people lose it with stress. Some people gain a
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: ship they will when they're stressed.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it kind of comes back to our conversation
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: as well about feelings of discomfort and how we respond
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: to them to try and gain comfort and in a
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: way homeostasis again from a mental and emotional point of view,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and the reach for the wine and all of that
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: kind of thing. And also it's interesting with cortisol as
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: well because in theory, leatin and quartsole should be in
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: opposition to each other. So when our cortsole's high, our
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: leptin should be low. So you know, I'm hungry in
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: the morning to get my day started and at particular
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: kind of rhythms of my quartsole to kind of match
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: in with eating cycles and things like that. But in
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: our stressful life, you know, if we bumped our cortsole
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: way way way way down, or have we got our
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: quartersole riding way way way too high, and then how
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: does that relate to the signals of hunger? And then
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: you know what comes into our role as mind management people,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: bodage management people of how do we help you use
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: tools to get you back into a more natural rhythm
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: of arousal and recovery straight like based on old tradeing
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: rhythms and things like that, so interoception can be It
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: always comes with thought though, right my version of it
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: is needing to slow down to then get my hunger
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: signals back and being now to be aware that. So
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: how you're operating right now? Okay, you're yelling a little bit,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: you're rushing around, you can't get your thoughts together, versus
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: the other version, which is your your stressed but you
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: find yourself distracted and walking to the fridge all the time.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: It's like it's almost it's an act thing, right, the
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: ability to observe yourself as a viewer of yourself and
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: watches if you're a character in a documentary and get
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: to know your habits and what was the curiosity withous
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: curiosity without judgment. Because we're a loving we're bringing love
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: to ourselves to find solutions. And in the circumstance where
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: I find myself at the fridge when I was meant
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: to be doing something that was a stressful task, am
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: I avoiding the discomfort what emotion came before that, and
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: that food then becomes it makes me feel.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Better, Yeah, soothes, soothes nice.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: And and this is the thing, right, that is that
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: everybody's brain has worked out to this point how to
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: handle stress, right, because because my brain goes, I'll fucking
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: sort this out, bring me alcohol, right, whereas other people
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: it's like, bring me food and don't bring me bloody
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: carrot sticks and celery sticks, bring me fat, sugar, salt
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: and any combinations of those things and usable yeah, and
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and and these become unconscious behaviors and unconscious habits. So
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: as you say that interception and that being self aware
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: at multiple different levels about how I actually respond in
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: certain situations automatically, that that sometimes these responses are deep
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: seeded from your childhood and you do I don't know
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: why you do it, but your body's just on order
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: part it because we are on attle parto with lots
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: of our habits on me.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess it's metabolically easier until you get
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: to a point where I find personally you're saying the
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: same thing to people but you haven't done the thing.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: And then I start to get annoyed by myself. So
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: open water swimming was a perfect example. I liked the
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: idea adea of trying a triathlon in my life, and
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: the real hard part was open water swimming. And for
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: years I was talking to people, Oh, yeah, I'd like
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: to give that a god, I'd like to give that
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: a go, And then I just kindly observe myself. I
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: say that a lot and I don't do it, so
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: either I don't mean it, or I need to examine
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. So it's often helpful to observe
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: or ask people, is that something you say a lot?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: Give them that option to go? Actually, yes, I say
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: that to my partner all the time, or I say
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: that to friends, you know, when they're talking about their
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: exercise endeavors and I'm feeling a little bit envious or
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: jealous or belittling myself. I talk about the things I
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: think I'm going to do or I'd like to do,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: but I never examine that. So I think it's always
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: helpful again to it's as a sense thing again as
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: here myself, and to your point, who am I round
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: when I say those things? And you know why am
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I saying them? I saying them because I'm trying to
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: prop myself up or bring myself down around someone that's
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: not actually a wonderful power in my life, because some
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: people do have those tricky relationships. And then how do
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: I use my beautiful vagus nerve to pull back what
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I say or let myself say what's required to say.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: So it's I think an examined life for me is
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: one that's better at seeking optimal versions of ourselves and
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: creating a life that matters when we kind of look
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: back and think about how we're going about it day
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: and how we're relating to people.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So tell me how you use ACT for people?
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: So for the listener's acceptance and commitment therapy, which I
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: think every listener of this podcast will be familiar with
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that because Kylie is a practitioner in it, But how
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: do you use ACT with clients and even with yourself
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: as well?
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it usually comes as they're seeking. They've come from
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: mind management and behavior and habit disruption, so that's their
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: main goal understanding that's why I do it, versus it's
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: the conversation about these are my goals, this is what
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I want to do, and then I guess the pace
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: and the process of how they've been going about it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: You know, how long has this been a challenge for you?
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: You know what things get in the way, and then
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: quite naturally opening up the idea of if this is
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: something that has been a problem for three years, or
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: there's a pattern that's going on. It's that open conversation
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: about do you feel that looking at the patterns of
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: what's going on is a more helpful start than actually
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: getting on with the running schedule and then just sort
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: of gently putting them together, because it's usually that they've
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: stopped started, stop started many many times, or they've got
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: an injury that's been hanging around for a long time
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: that for a lot of people that are willing to
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: do the work, it's annoying to them. They don't want
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: the pain. They do want the accolades of the run
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: that they said they were going to do four years ago.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Or for some that I work with who are coming
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: to perimenopause, there's this interesting transaction where there's bodies are
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: naturally changing shape, and all of a sudden, they're forcing
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: themselves to do exercise because they're doing it like they
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: used to do, and then their bodies are rejecting it
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: because their whole body and brain is recalibrating. There's this
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: kind of themes around them, and even though values are
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: a deep part of it, values are often a later
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: conversation that kind of sculpts and details the process. But
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: for me, I'm a huge fan of the choice point.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: That's my O. Yes, want to teach people through that.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Some may have remembered because Carli's talked about it, but
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: long time ago.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I love this choice point.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, absolute favorite. So the choice can be
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: used as you literally bring yourself into a moment of
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: time where things are often just it's that time where
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: you know something goes wrong, versus you can use it
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: around values where you just look at your values, you
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: identify them, and what we want to figure out around
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: this habit or this moment in time or these values.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: When you become hooked by a thought or a memory
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: or a story or something that is has the capacity
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: to take you away from the version of you that
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: you're seeking to be and the behaviors and patterns that
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: you're wanting to sculpt, being aware of either what those patterns, behaviors,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: memories are, and then eventually having a relationship with those
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: you know, when I get pulled by I've come into
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: the room with someone that's difficult for me to have
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: conversations with. I get hooked by a memory, and then
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: that pushes me to a high level of arousal and
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I get agitated, and then I become sarcastic or snippy,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: and then I'm having trouble pulling back from that, and
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I'm withdrawn from everyone in the room.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: But the version of me that I would like to
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: be is friendly, open and available. And then all of
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: a sudden, I've been hooked. I'm lost in this ability
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: to do it. And then we have this other arm
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: if you can imagine, you know, a v where from
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: that bottom of the choice point, I can feel the
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: potential to be hooked by these memories, scenarios, or a
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: value that I'm detaching myself from. And then the towards
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: moves are things that maybe we've never done before, things
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: behaviors that are more workable towards me moving towards the
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: version that I want to be. So these sometimes can
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: be diffusion strategies, things that help me to unhook from
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: a memory or a thought and allow myself just to
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: be that little bit closer to the version you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: just one mark closer out of ten to the conversation
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: I'd like to have, or being able to notice that
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling agitated and being able to do something that
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: allows me to communicate my value to that person or
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: give myself the amount of time that feels safe to
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: me to participate in that conversation. So the towards and
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: a way moves that allow us to be able to,
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I guess, save ourselves a little bit. I can feel
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: that I'm hooked and I'm abandoning myself and who I
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: want to be. And then the towards moves. What's these
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: slow moves that we can slowly put into play that
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: allows us to be closer to the version of us
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: that feels meaningful and yeah, purposeful, I think the other words.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to give you a very concrete example
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: of this right from yesterday because it's fresh in my mind.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: So I'd done I was in camera, I've done a workshop.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I've done a whole day workshop, which is pretty draining
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: when you're talking for an entire day. There was probably
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: fifty sixty people in the room and it was great workshop.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: But I got to the airport and my flight was
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: not for an iron half, and I went and so
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: to see if I could get on an earlier flight,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and so the guy put me on an earlier flight
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: and he bumped me up the business and I'm like,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I didn't even realize until I was walking on. I'm like,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: oh shit, I didn't realize that. So I got on,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I'm coming home. And then they come around with dinner
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: and said, do you want a glass of wine?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Right? So being an irishman an ex fucking choice point
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: right there. Right.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: So here's the thing for people to understand about the
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: choice point is that there is a situation that happens
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: and that arises thoughts, feelings, emotions, right, and so Pardony's going,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, the glass of wine would be lovely, right,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: That's just the best way to just chill out on
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the way home. And then I'm like, fucking hell, this
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: is the choice point right here. And that comes I
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: think the choice point was created from Victor Frankel, and
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: that realizing in ours fits that he said, man is
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: capable of terrible things to fellow man, particularly in times
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: of war, can take away all your dignity, your pride,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: your belongings, even your loved ones. He can take everything
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: but one thing, and he called it the last of
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: human freedoms, your ability to choose how you react to
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: your circumstances.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So for me, I'm there sitting there with this choice point.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have the glass of wine, which, knowing me,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: will turn into two or three glasses of wine, right,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: and that I know you and I know me, right,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: And so there's towards in a way moove just like
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: you said that v and actually having the glass of
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: wine is in a way move because it takes me
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: away from the person that I want to be. And
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: you know, it also takes me away from my ability
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: to do work because I've got a shipload on before
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: we go away. But it's the alluring thing, right. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: then towards move is to actually say no, I don't
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: want to have the glass of wine, because that takes
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: me towards the person that I want to be, you know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: being healthier, all of that sort of stuff, and having
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: to get my work done. But you know, the thing
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: that that made me say no was connecting to my
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: value of authenticity. So that's that's a pretty deeply hell
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: value of mine. And I thought you've just done a
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: workshop with a whole bunch of people talking about pig performance, right,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: and if you want to be authentic, usol will say no.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And authenticity is often the thing that I use. It's
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: the it's the value for me with the choice point
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: of the alarm goes off and it's half past five,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: you got a choice point of whether you get out
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: of bed to work out or whether you press snoots.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: And for me, that value of authenticity is often the
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: one that does it. So I think that's that's just
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: a very recent example of connecting your values to help
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: you make towards moves.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's interesting too, write well, the values are
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: beautiful in that there often that that beautiful unhood where
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: you go, I understand, it's that deeper work though, where
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: you sit back and go, how do I operate around
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: this value and really getting to know yourself when that
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: is that feels true of you and close to your wine,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: close to your purpose, and then kind of matching it
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: into any choice point that happens becomes really really easy
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: to do. It's interesting too for that example with the
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: outside in the environment and you you know, have grown
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: up in environments socially or just the culture, the Irishman
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: culture like you.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Know, which was then, and then double down on being
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: in the military.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Right yeah, so, And it's just it's so interesting all
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: the things I've talked about perfectly exit. We could pull
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: apart so many things on that one little choice point
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: for you that we.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Could full cycle analysis of me.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Right now, I'll just lie down on the table and
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: you can cle.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: All the hard things about the dopamine and we'll give
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: some people some hope about that at the end around
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: exercise and dopamine. But I think the other really interesting thing,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: and one that I love to bring into the education
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: point for people is the good old I've got the
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: book here. I'm never sure if i'd not say his
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: name properly. Daniel Carnaman.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I've got it on the bookshelf. Be Homie.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, first brain, second brain. And then the lovely Zoe Chance,
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: who's she's got amazing resources. I can't think of the
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: name of a book, which I feel silly about the moment.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: But she refined those two ideas to the gator brain
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: and the judge, and I think those two things are
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: also helpful to people to understand about the choice point
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: as well. And the gator being the alligator, the primal
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: part of our brain versus the judge being the rational thinker.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: And when we're operating well and we can do that
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: choice point in a moment, it's usually because we've got
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: enough going on between our alligator brain, our reflexive primal brain,
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: and our judge that we can kind of too and
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: fro and go, oh, yes, but that's not a great
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: idea because you're close to authenticity, and then the gata
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: being able to sit down and go no, of course, yep,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: let's not have the wine at this moment. Versus when
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: it's really really hard for us to access the judge
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: and think rationally and get closer to our purposeful, more authentic,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: value driven version of ourself is because we live a
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: life of urgency. We overwhelm ourselves with things, and that's
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: hard for the judge to be part of that conversation.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: When the gator has a sense of urgency, is fatigued
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: from a massive day, it's just harder for us to
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: make those decisions. So from a self compassionate act point
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: of view, I see this beautiful merging of understanding your anatomy,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: understanding your story, and being able to slowly merge and
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: understand those ideas as a way of creating habit disruption
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: as well. Wise is hard for me right now, well,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: because I've been called home with a rushed experience with
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: my kids falling off the monkey bars. I've had to
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: come away from a really important meeting, and I'm feeling
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: urgency or pull between the two places, and then it's
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: hard for us to make reasonable decisions. We kind of
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: blip out of our what's called our window of tolerance,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: and if we're out of that window of tolerance for
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: too long, it is really hard to make decisions that
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: are close to our values. And that kind of answers
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: to how we make up a whole day, how we
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: make a decision all the way through the day, how
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: we allow ourselves to have levels of arousaler and recovery
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: rather than just working our butt off the whole day
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: and then reaching for the coffee at three o'clock or
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: the sugar being really yeah or the sugar very perfect.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: So it's.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: We love the idea of being in true understanding of
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: our physiology and the inside versions of our drivers and
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: living a little closer to those so that we can
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: live closer to peak performance, and ironically with that, we
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: can have a little bit closer to the better decision
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: making points here and there, because we get an understanding
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: of when we've pushed too hard, when we need to
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: pull back, why we're snappy at our partner, and when
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: you know what it takes for us to pull right
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: back and apologize. And I think there's peak performance opportunities
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: in everything that we do, not just in good old exercise.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That's not talk about the interaction between your physical performance,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: physical stay at, physical capabilities, and your mindset.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I think this one for me, breath bridges it a bits.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know why I think of tennis, but I
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: always think of tennis when it's set point and you've
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: got you really need to be able to control your
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: motor skills, control your composure, your power, you know how
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: much adrenaline is in your body. But you also have
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: to have that clarity of mind. So you need to
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: be turned up in the mind for that laser focus.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: But you need to have that composure and control of
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: all the things you've learned with your body. And this
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: can pop up, for example, lack. We could have gone
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: back in time with Paul doing that talk in Canberra.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: But we've taken you back fifteen years. You've never done
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: speaking before, and you know the voice being out of
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: control itself, the adrenaline, the body, and how exhausted you
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: would have been by the end of that day compared
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: to the skilled, trained speaker that you are now. And
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: that if our story is to our point on the
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: on the choice point, if our stories memories experience of
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: that moment in time hooks us so far that it
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: spits out a heap of Nora adrenaline, It spits out
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: a heap of quartersole, the things that are meant to
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: help us get drive, but it actually creates hyper arousal
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: in our body. That kind of dismantles our composure. So
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: at set point when I'm meant to be accurate with
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: my bull toss, perfect timing on my power and coordination,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: but the fear when I jump forward in my ideas,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: in my time machine, my mind, I jump forward into
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: this idea of actually having lost or won, then that
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: takes over control of my body, like I'm moving beyond
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: the present moment. So I think and breath work can
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: come into play there. I think for people that practice
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: and incorporate breathwork and understanding the connections with the mind
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: and body as not even just sports people, but any
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: version of person that can be the tricky meeting you
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: walk into where you can control your voice and your
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: composure and your body and not shake as your hand
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: the piece of paper that you know, these are the
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: things that start popping up between the mind and body.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: And it's interesting too because the majority of the population
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: are hyperventilators, so they breathe too much. And I always
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: it about I think about sitting and the change in
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: our diaphragm, the ability to breathe expansively us now speaking
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: and breathing through our mouth, so we're hyperventilating part of
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: that process as well, rather than being able to breathe
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: through our nose, and that if the majority of us
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: are hype of ventilators, it reduces the amount of CO
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: two in our body, and CO two is pretty amazing
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: like this, it gets called a waste product, but it
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: is part of why we get oxygen to our brain.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: It helps you, Yeah, it sits and rides on beside
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: and it allows oxygen to get into tissues. It's been
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: proven many times in science before that this is a
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: strong reason for hypertension in people, and in a hyperventilation moment,
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: it's needed, right because we need our blood pressure to
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: go up to service and exercise effort, all those kinds
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: of things. But if we're sitting and we're hyperventilators, this
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: is this slow cascade to unwell health that is disconnecting
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: our mind and body, taking us away from interoception and
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: really can be kind of map back to many many
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: problems in health that people are dealing with. So that
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: connection with and we can like we could make ourselves
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: have an anxiety attack just by changing our breathing pattern.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: So I think the connection between mind and body. Getting
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: to understand your story and the physiology behind your story
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: how it presents itself can be very well, you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: low cost and no cost, you know good old Humman's phrase.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: This idea of understanding how to utilize breath work, to
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: get that connection, to manage cortisol levels, to be aware
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: from an observable point of view, you know how I'm
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: behaving in one moment of another and how close I
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: am to my values. It becomes a real remote control
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: between the two connections.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: When you say hyperventilating, I just want people to understand.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: You don't mean it's just like excessive breathing reate, like
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: a higher breathing reate. Not necessarily I'm full blown hyperventilating here.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, point.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: So it's just that, and respiratory reate has really very
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: very interesting connections into both our physical health and our
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: mental health. And then whether or not you're a naisle
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: breather or a mouth breather, and whether you're breathing into
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: your diaphram or your chest, which we tend to do
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: more chest breathing whenever we're stressed, so it's shallow, we
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: oft the mouth breathe, we overbreathe, that kind of low
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: end of hyperventilation, and it breaking changes lots of physiology
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: inside the body and has an impact on the mind,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I think to your point as well.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and when we were talking about before the mammalian brain,
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: you know, that reflexive brain, the one that's a little
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: bit closer to our stories, all of that kind of thing,
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: So we could go deep into a hard story from
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: our childhood, or that happened the other day. You know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I said the wrong thing in a meeting, and now
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: I'm just playing that over and over again again. That
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: idea of getting hooked by a memory and that can
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: push us to hyperventilation and our ability to carry that
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: around with this for five or six days after and
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: just constantly nudge us into a mental state that then
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: will bleed into all of our other choices. That is,
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: I guess we could call them micro stresses. So again
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: that interception comes into play. How am I breathing? What's
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: on my mind? And how much is it required for
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: what I'm doing now? You know? Is the breath rate
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: that I'm doing actually helping me? Do I need an
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: arousal straight state to be up because I need to
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: get ready for an important meeting and get my brain
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: in gear. Or is it more of an anxious experience
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: that's pulling me away from my composure. So yeah, it
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: kind of feeds into that interception part of our conversation again.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: So what do you encourage?
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: What type of breathing to you encourage people to do
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: to dine regulate their arisal.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: I think the easiest one for people to do would
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: be the one that's sort of more closely connects breath
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: and heart rate at the same time, And it varies
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: depend on your heightened things, but on average, it's a
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: five second breath in and a five second breath out
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: and giving yourself at least two minutes a day to
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: just pause and do that, ideally through the nose. If
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: there's no issues with breathing through the nose, because we've
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: got nitric oxide receptor's high high volume in there, and
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: those that chemical in our body connects us to more
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: the power sympathetic, the slowing down version of responses that
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: we get in our system at a biochemical level, the
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: physiological side, the inhale at the top YEP and the
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: controlled exhalees really helpful. But I think the other thing
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: that's really fantastic is just being aware of breathing through
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: your nose more often, and that when you're going about things,
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: if you can make the effort to notice how you're breathing.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: So you're jumping up, you're heading down the stairs after
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: being at your computer for a few hours, and you're
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: going out to get some sunlight, but you notice that
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: you're breathing out of your mouth. Can I breathe through
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: my nose? Yes? Is there any reason to breathe through mouth? No?
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Then breathe through your nose, And you can even use
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: a gearing system. So while you're sitting there quietly, Paul,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: you'll be using what we call gear two and listeners.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: Paul's mouth is closed, so he's clearly breathing through his nose.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: So Gear one is just quietly breathing in and out
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: through your nose. If you started to move a bit
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: more quickly, you could move into gear two, which is
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: just a little bit bigger breath through the nose, a
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: little bit bigger breath out through the nose. But we
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: can you know, we're doing an effort that allows us
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: to stay in that gear rather than I'm moving, So
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: I start breathing out of my mouth. And then as
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: we do something more effort, for maybe you're zipping up
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: back up the stairs now, maybe there's a need to
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: And then maybe all of a sudden that you know,
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: the elevated doors going, so you run and you know
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: you need to breathe in and out through the mouth
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: to recover from that effort. But being aware that I've finished,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: I don't have no need to be breathing in and
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: out through my mouth now because I'm calmed down from
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: that little sprint and then being able to gear back
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: down into nasal breathing. So the first one thing to
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: do is just be aware of where you're breathing and
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: where possible breathe out of your nose.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I tell you a great little tap on this, because
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you'll see from my squashed nose that it's taken a
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: bit of abuse so my boxing and I broke it
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid, and then broke it again
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: and fractured it, and I've had a deviated septum for years.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: It couldn't nose breathe. Then eventually I got it fixed
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: and the surgeon asked if if I wanted to pretty
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: my nose up as well, and I told him to
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: piss off, and I said, just fix it so as
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I can breathe through it. But and then being able
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: to breathe through my nose, I'm like, wow, this is amazing.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: But you know, the big changing for me was starting
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: to mouse tape at night. So I use mouth taping,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: have done for probably the last year and a half
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: maybe two years, and that Corley loves it because it
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: stopped stopping from snoring. But also definitely I felt more
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: refreshed when I when I wake up in the morning,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: but have noticed that that has then had a flow
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: on effect to me then breathing through my nose more
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: often because I just had a learned behavior from having
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: that deviate acceptum that I breathe through my mouth from
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: my pretty much my whole life from when I was
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: a kid, and then having to.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Relearn how to breathe.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: It's pretty hard to do when it's not something that
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: you're consciously aware of, but spending it ours innate tipped
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: up forces you into narsal breathing pattern that I have found.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Then often when I become aware of it, I go, oh, actually,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: I'm niars breathing though, so I think I think my
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: tiping my tipping. Unless you have a dv at, a
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: taptum or a block nise, then you don't want to
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: like tip because you're kind of struggle to get off.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: Running out of options.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: But just the research that's coming out about the health
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: impacts of most tipping at NATE, it's just amazing. And
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: for me, the dded bullness is a retraining of habits.
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the one thing that might not land for people
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: that sometimes the jaw is not in the right place
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: to mouth tape so some people might do it and
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: then it just doesn't feel comfortable, and that's not a
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: reason to get rid of it, but go oh, it's
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: a bit of a prompt that something else has to
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: happen first, because it is a helpful idea. And here's
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: an interesting thing about sleep that's so interesting that you
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: become more refreshed, so we straighten up the septum and
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: then we can breathe more in that really important part
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: of sleep, non rem sleep, where our brain cleans itself,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: our muscles go through specific repair in the non rem phase,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: we've got some growth hormone going around as well. The
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: our heart rate and our breathing rate goes down. Yes,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: so what happens in that part of the process is
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: that we eliminate less CO two and if we don't
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: have a great sensitivity to CO two, we've got receptors
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: in our amygdala that will promote arousal in non rem
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: sleep if we are. If we're not sensitive enough to see,
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: which is a version of training that you can do
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: and a lot of people do need to do. It's
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: kind of associated with hyperventilation breathing as well. And the
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: interesting thing about that is for someone that kind of
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: mouth tapes and then ends up waking or a concept
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: that's possibly happening. There is the amygdala and the CO
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: two sensitive receptors around the amygdala. If there's a buildup
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: of that and the mouth breather is unable to get
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: it off board because there's sensitivity is too low, it
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: can interrupt the benefits in non rem sleep or wake
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: them up when you know we shouldn't we shouldn't be waking.
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: In theory, we go through fragments, but we shouldn't be waking.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: And then even more interesting, this is cool and I
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: think I understand this okay. As in REM sleep, when
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: we are tapping into our stories and having dreams, the
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: CO two control of breathing goes off and we just
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: go to what's called the prebotsing reflex of breathing, which
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: is just like times breathing that we get from the
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: base of our spinal cord. So our breathing goes into
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: a circuit that's controlled through our brain, and then that
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: allows us to have our dreams that don't particularly make
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: sense or they're an old memory, and have these variations
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: in CO two without waking us up.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. The other thing that happens in ram sleep. Yes,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: is it's the only time in your life when the
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: brion blocks the release of Nora adrenaline from the look
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: of Cerelius. And that's why fits totally fits because if
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: we think about it, and actually, Dutch researchers in twenty
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: nineteen showed that you block ramsleep, you create anxiety because
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: what they believe now is happening is that during ram
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: sleep there's a tremendous amount of activity between the temporal
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and the front the lobes, and they believe that we're
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: replaying the day's events over and we often do it
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: in crazy ways, right, but we're deciding what's important to
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: store as a memory and what we can actually delete.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: And if we think about it, if we'd had an
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: argument that day and I'm remembering that argument in remsleep,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: that's going to increase my arousal and it's going to
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: wake me up.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: So yeah, exactly.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: But that's why the Brian shots off Nora adrenaline from
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: that that's the sister chemical of adrenaline released in the
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: brain from the look of Curelius. It gets shot down
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: in remsleep. Now when people are highly highly stressed, that
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: that shotdown can get overridden and that's why people wake
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: up in the middle of the night. And I will
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: said to people, when you wake up in the middle
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: of night, are you thinking about your best holiday ever?
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: And it's like, no, they're not, They're thinking about stuff
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: that's like in the brain goes fucking hell, what are
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: you doing in sleep?
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: You need to wake up?
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: And that's because that that that norah adrenaline's leaking back
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: in create it's a risal wakes your ass up.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: That's really cool, isn't it. They are amazing it easy.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And just the shit that goes on in our
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: bodies and our minds whenever we're asleep is just it's
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: pretty unbelievable, isn't it.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: It's cool too to think that energetically, there's more going
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: on when we're asleep than when we're awake. So it's like,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: let's not burn out during the day. Otherwise sleep has
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: very little chance of doing its best work. Yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, So when you're working with clients, how important is
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: breath control? Do you do that with everybody or is
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: it only certain people?
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: Do you have a.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Little analysis that you do to see if you want
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: to bring it in or is it a critical part
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: of working with someone.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: I think for some people they'll be like, no, that's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: not for me, and I'll just pop a little seed
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: in it. If it's not for you, it can be
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: because it's uncomfortable to slow down, not going to optimize
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: the things that we're trying to do. So at a
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: point or I will to be like, Okay, what's the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: smallest version of slowing down that we can do that
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't particularly relate to breath work? And I was that person.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: You go to a yoga class and you know, I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: can't think of the bit where you're late at the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: end and you're completely still, and you're like, oh, I
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: don't need that just to do And then beautiful a
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: pregnancy taught me this is that because we've go to
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: a pregnant sorry I'll add this story in. We'll go
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: to a pregnancy yoga class and it was a huge
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: class by these really well respected group of people that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: did it, just walls of pregnant women. It's quite quite funny.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: And then when you come in and you're not as pregnant,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: you're kind of at the back of the room and
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: the ones that are more pregnant are at the front,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: getting a little bit more assistant, and you come in
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: like an arrogant What's However, at the start, you know,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: you're still bossing yourself around and you're doing yoga, you're
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: not kind of doing the connection. And then as you
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: become more pregnant, you forced with these amazing hormones to
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: get more in connection with your body, and then you
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: get to the you get closer to the front of
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: the room, and then you're kind of more able to
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: check into And for me personally, was a want to
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: start to check into the pregnancy a bit more rather
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: than oh, I've got to get my business in the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: right position and da da da, and then being able
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: to slow down. So it was this interesting evolution of
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: learning how good slowing down feels because of this metabolic
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: situation going on while you're growing another human, and that
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: really learning the benefit and interceptively feeling the benefit. And
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: then sometimes you know, the baby get moves more while
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: you're slowing down, to having these fun little connections in
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: that way as well. But I learned from that experience
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: that was my first AHA to you don't slow down
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: very well, and you are bullshitting when you talk to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: other people about slowing down and you actually don't do
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: it particularly well. So it's nice because you can have
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: that connection of you, I have trouble as well, But
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: these are the benefits that you get, and then there's
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: some that come with I have a stressed life and
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: I want to fix this. So it's you know, it's
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: almost an expected part of it. Sometimes a divergent that
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: they're not used to or expecting is the testing for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: CO two tolerance and testing for air hunger and kind
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: of weaving that in.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: How do you do that testing for COE or two
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: to It's pretty easy.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: People can just test on themselves. You just need a timer.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: You can do what's called a bolt score, and you
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: just sit comfortably doing just your natural breath in. So
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: you can just do a couple of breath in his
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: breath out and are not bigger, not larger or sort
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: of more in any way, and then just do three
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: breaths that you're focusing on, and at the end of
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: the third breath, you do your exhale just to your
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: normal amount, and then you can pinch your nose or
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: just stop breathing. The presetting breaths will all in and
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: out through the nose. And then you start a timer
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: and then time how long you can hold your breath
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: up into about a score that you would consider a
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: six or seven out of ten need to breathe, and
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: then you stop the timer for anything under twenty five seconds.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: It's not a true indicator of hyperventilation issues, but when
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: you pop it with it's called a Nijmin score, which
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: is a score of stress. When you pop those two together,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: you can get a pretty clear indicator of if you're
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: much more likely to be having issues with hyperventilation as
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: a syndrome versus under twenty five just you know, not
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: great tolerance to CO two and all the magic it
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: can create in terms of health benefits in the body,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: keeping our rousal anxiety states low, and that interception that
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: we're talking about before. And then it's something that you
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: can train to improve. And it's CE or.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Two tolerance training I think is hugely important particular people
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: who have anxiety. It can be really really beneficial, whether
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: it's partake or breathing or any other type of seal
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: two tolerance. Yeah, I think can be just really really
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: important for people.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's just for me. It's like it's interesting
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: noticing it all understanding it. But my AHA moment was
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: when I was in the pool and I'd been away.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: I hadn't been able to train for a couple of weeks,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: but I've been really concentrating on my CO two training
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: and it didn't make particular sense in terms of where
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: I was in my menstrual cycle to be feeling so
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: at easy in the pool. So all I could put
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 3: it down to was my very concentrated month of CO
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: two getting back into the rhythm of moving my training
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: after having I think I had bronchitis or something like that.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: And then I got back into the pool and I
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: was like, why do I feel so good? Why does
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: this feel so easy? I'm in my luteal phase. It
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: should feel a little harder. It's a hot pool, my
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: body's hot, it should feel hot, and it felt real easy.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: So it was Yeah, that was my first real AHA
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: moment where I was like, I can feel it in
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: my body and it's impressive.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: That's very cool, excellent.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just realized that we are kind of out
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: of time and that just flew.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: I flew by.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: So where can people go to find out more about
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: you and.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: To hire as a coach?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: And so do you just do fierce the fierce stuff
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: are you on? Do you do online stuff as well?
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: You know where do we saying peopop?
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, online and in person if it works for us,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: But online we can get a lot done, can't we.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: It's a bit of a blessing. And my website is
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: probably the easiest place to go. It's onnamovement dot com
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: and there's a bit of a contact me page or
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: just some more details about me if you want to
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: have a little bit of a stalk of me before.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: I've got an Instagram page and a LinkedIn page, whatever
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: your style is. But yeah, happy to have a conversation
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: and also just happy to hear from you something that
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: clicked and made sense and has pushed you back into
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: reaching out to someone else that you needed to support with.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: I really like the idea of being a triage as well.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: If I'm not the answer right now, I might know
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: someone that is the answer or just you know that
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: little seed that we talked about before where probably need
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: to work on the first and if you've already got
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: those skills, go back and do that yourself. So yeah,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: I think that's important too. I think sometimes people get
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: scared to engage because they have to commit. But sometimes
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: it can just be a conversation that points you in
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: the right direction.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: And some people need all of the docks to line
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: up before they engage, and it's like, come on, just
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: get started, just get bloody started. It doesn't need to
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: be perfect, yes exactly. And then from it, are you
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: presumably out of the peninsula down here?
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I work from the peninsula at a space
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: called the Private Sea, and I work in at north
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: at a space called oh my gosh Health Point Osteopathy.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: And then in workplaces as well in terms of corporate
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: programs or one on one performance programs.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Awesome burn up.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: This has been an excellent dive into interalspection and mind
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: body connection, which I think just people do not do
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: enough of these days with our crazy busy lives.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: So we all need a little bit of oona in
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: our lives.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I hope, I hope I meet some people.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, thanks very much.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: Catch time see here