Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Do Women Like Emotional Men?

Transcript

Do Women Like Emotional Men? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everyone, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom, show. And before I start a special,
• 0:11
  thank you to those of you who showed up to my zoom with Dad,
• 0:14
  starting over that was great last night and got a lot of
• 0:20
  interesting things from that that I can talk about and one of
• 0:24
  them I'll talk about today about emotionality in men and what
• 0:28
  all-male sorts of groups and sites say about that versus what
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  I have seen and feel as a woman. And as a obviously, a therapist
• 0:37
  in private practice working with couples and men and women
• 0:41
  individually as well. So, before we dive into that
• 0:44
  topic, please do subscribe. So that you can get all of the
• 0:47
  subscription-only episodes, which are the last ones was mr.
• 0:51
  Perfect. And his crazy wife, and I'm
• 0:52
  going to do my whole couples you meet in counseling series.
• 0:56
  And the one on attachment Theory, people have found very
• 0:59
  useful oral sex on women, everybody likes that.
• 1:03
  So can't forget to mention that one ever. / + 35, + other
• 1:08
  episodes. Okay, so here's the thing.
• 1:11
  So the guys that like follow dad starting over and the guys that
• 1:16
  are in the manosphere talking about women and how to have
• 1:21
  their relationship be better. They they're like one subset of
• 1:26
  men and they are ones who are really interested in and caring
• 1:31
  about their relationship. Many of them are kind of
• 1:34
  preoccupied. Hi Detachment.
• 1:36
  Meaning they are the more insecure partner and again, go
• 1:38
  back to my attachment Theory podcast for more on this.
• 1:43
  So they are not though, the average guy, the average guy
• 1:49
  tends more toward avoidant and his emotions he may be
• 1:52
  classified as emotionally. Avoidant attachment.
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  Which means that he's like really emotionally avoidant and
• 2:01
  had a very more of a cold upbringing that led to that
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  That, or he may be more of the average guy who doesn't really
• 2:08
  think much about his relationship at all, and rarely
• 2:12
  thinks about his wife's inner World, unless she's bringing it
• 2:17
  up. So that is a lot more common
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  than the inverse. So whenever you're around, you
• 2:22
  know, people like yourself, you know, obviously you start to
• 2:24
  think everybody's like you. It's like the statistic only ten
• 2:27
  percent of college kids are binge drinkers, but that 10%
• 2:30
  when you ask them, how many college kids are binge drinkers
• 2:32
  they say 90% because they think so I think is they're surrounded
• 2:36
  with the, the other binge drinkers constantly on campus.
• 2:40
  So, if you are a guy that's very into like, bettering your
• 2:43
  marriage and what does your wife think of you and you know,
• 2:47
  making her more interested in you you probably are on the less
• 2:53
  secure end of the spectrum. You likely had an upbringing
• 2:56
  with a caregiver who was not very consistent in their
• 2:59
  affection, which primed you to think that you have to be
• 3:03
  hyper-vigilant So that you can get any little drops of
• 3:07
  affection that somebody gives you.
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  And then in your marriage, this may have made your partner even
• 3:13
  more avoidant than she already was.
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  Meaning that you're always kind of begging her for like
• 3:18
  attention and affection. And in that case certainly it's
• 3:23
  good to work on your levels of emotional neediness or why ninis
• 3:27
  even, you know and those are definitely going to be turn-offs
• 3:30
  to women but for more men more often Women are hoping that men
• 3:38
  grow more emotionally attached, not less and so there's a big
• 3:42
  difference between an insecure type of expression of emotion
• 3:47
  like a man. Following you around saying, do
• 3:48
  you love me? Do you love me?
• 3:49
  Do you love me? Do you care about me?
• 3:50
  How was your day? Sweetheart, what what can I do?
• 3:53
  What can I do? Which you know which the woman
• 3:55
  knows is like to get reassurance and so that's different than a
• 4:02
  man who is comfortable with. Emotions and vulnerability, that
• 4:07
  is ideal. So, with that, that is great.
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  So that is, in fact, a turn-on to women.
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  And it's interesting because the men who are most successful with
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  women, from everything that I've seen.
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  And I think there was even research about the success of
• 4:23
  men's marriages, that bore this out, they have older sisters and
• 4:27
  close relationships with their mothers.
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  So what do they know how to do? They know how to talk about
• 4:31
  feelings? They don't necessarily And be
• 4:35
  needy. But they know how to talk about
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  feelings and what a woman's emotions are.
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  They're not scared by women's emotions.
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  They are familiar with the fact that women have feelings and
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  they like to talk about feelings.
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  So, within the context of what most marriages are, like, the
• 4:53
  man needs to grow more comfortable with discussing
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  emotion, not less. And this does not mean that he
• 5:00
  needs to have barrage. His wife with constant questions
• 5:02
  about her inner world, but rather that he Needs to be kind
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  of comfortable talking about emotions on a regular basis.
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  It's interesting. So I work with people that are
• 5:14
  not socially successful, you know?
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  And and, and they need to make friends and date and whatever.
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  I used to work with a lot more younger.
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  People who are actively dating trying to be on the dating
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  Market in the first go-round. Now given the whole, my whole
• 5:31
  body of work more people, contact me that are already
• 5:34
  married or divorced But when I was trying to work with people
• 5:37
  who found it difficult to connect to others, the number
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  one thing that they were doing wrong, when they told their
• 5:43
  stories, was their story. Was this fact, that fact, this
• 5:45
  fact, this fact, it was a stream of fact and The Listener is like
• 5:50
  bore their like immediately board.
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  So to we were talking about injecting more feeling into it
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  you know which gives the person some you know inside.
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  So for example if a man's going on a date with a woman and he's
• 6:03
  like today my boss told me that our new project is going to be
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  X. So my role is going to be doing
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  X about why and why about Z and the team.
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  I'm going to be headed to seven people and they're going to be
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  doing X and Y and Z like, I mean, she's already asleep and
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  she's not like connected to him. Whereas if it's something like I
• 6:20
  was so excited, my boss tact me for this project, I had been
• 6:24
  anxious, he wouldn't. But I really, you know, I feel
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  really relieved now and it's bigger team than I've ever had,
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  you know, already. There's some some And because
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  there's some emotionality in what the man is saying.
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  So most men that did not have the benefit of an extremely
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  close relationship with an emotionally aware mother and or
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  close relationships with sisters particularly older sisters
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  because they you know, know how to talk more and for many more
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  years than you, even as a child and can have more of a mentor
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  role. These men need to focus on being
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  more emotionally expressive, certainly not less.
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  So but I was talking to Dad starting over, he said, that
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  they train. Meant to be more stoic in the
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  face of female emotion. So this can be good until a
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  point. So, for example, if your wife
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  comes home and she's crying about losing her job, and she
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  just certainly does not want you to begin to cry and wring your
• 7:19
  hands and say, oh, no. What will we do?
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  Like that is not exactly something that that makes her
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  feel reassured or that you're a strong partner.
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  But the stoicism also cannot be staying there like a rock, you
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  know? And it's interesting because in
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  session, many women, tell me and they are so happy and feel so
• 7:42
  connected and loved when finally, the man cries about
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  something, you know, and the women who have never seen their
• 7:48
  husbands cried, they don't think it's a good thing.
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  So if he didn't cry at the wedding, he didn't cry at the
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  birth of the child. He didn't cry.
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  If his parent, I didn't cry. If she's diagnosed with breast
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  cancer. This is not good.
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  That is way too stoic. So there is like a big
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  difference between being somebody that is Begging for
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  emotional, sustenance themselves, and taking the
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  spotlight away from the woman as she is upset and putting it on
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  him so much that he then needs the reassurance, which is not
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  good and somebody who doesn't seem to give a shit.
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  So while many more preoccupied, attachment men that are very
• 8:23
  worried about their marriages while they may have to learn to
• 8:28
  be more stoic. And this was in fact, what Dad
• 8:31
  starting over said came to his coaching And workshops is the
• 8:36
  guys who tend to be more anxious in this way.
• 8:38
  Yeah sure. They have to work on being more
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  stoic or however you phrase it not allowing their entire day to
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  be impacted so much by their wife's mood.
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  As I write myself in my pieces, on stop caring so much what your
• 8:54
  wife thinks and then the add-on which I just wrote, which was
• 8:58
  about how men should also have some kind of life outside the
• 9:00
  marriage but that brings to another point the majority of
• 9:04
  men. So I Right.
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  Not only people are not monolithic obviously, so there's
• 9:08
  all types of people. So, in those cases, I'm writing
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  for the men that are terrified of their wife's judgment.
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  Who tend to be on the more preoccupied end of the
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  attachment spectrum. And but the average guy remember
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  is thinking too little about emotion because he was not
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  necessarily raised to think about it.
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  So that the average man needs to do a little bit less outside the
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  house. If like he if he's already
• 9:34
  working, Hours, then he goes for happy hour with his friends.
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  And he doesn't text her that he's doing that that's called
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  being an asshole. Like, that is not like
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  considerate guy or like an independent man that you then
• 9:46
  want to sleep with. That's a guy who's not going to
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  get laid because he's being inconsiderate.
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  He's not picturing and empathizing with her emotions
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  and how she feels if she's been alone for 12 hours with the
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  kids. And then he don't even text her
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  and he's gone for another two hours, so that would be rude.
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  So the majority of women that That come in to my office are in
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  this more common situation where they feel like the man can be
• 10:11
  emotionally and considerate, and cold, and that he needs to work
• 10:15
  on empathizing and the idea, you always have to situate where you
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  start along a spectrum when you try to work on something.
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  So obviously, if you are already starting out anxious and you
• 10:29
  need to grow more independent in your own skin, but the average
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  man is is Got independent down, at least internally and does not
• 10:39
  share enough of his vulnerable emotions and does not seem to
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  empathize much with his wife. So in that case, it is often
• 10:47
  very transformative and if you ask.
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  Yeah. But will she be attracted to
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  that man? A thousand times more?
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  Because many women that I see, don't sleep with the men because
• 10:56
  they think he's an asshole and they're kind of right.
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  Because they tell me stuff he does and it's like, oh, like
• 11:02
  you, you could have texted her, you could have called, You could
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  have remembered that you know it was whatever your anniversary,
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  you know, like stuff like that. So if you are on the end of the
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  spectrum where women have traditionally thought that you
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  were not very understanding or empathic, then it is obvious
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  that you need to work on the other stuff you need to work on
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  being more present, more empathic, a better listener.
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  And actually look like you have some feelings, because it's
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  interesting another way that I've not seen research.
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  But it's been borne out in my experience.
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  As a clinician is that men can grow more emotionally aware is
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  if they have a loving High School relationship or early
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  college relationship. So when they're in this young
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  window where their hormones are racing and they're more
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  romantically attuned, you know, Young Romeo and they get their
• 11:53
  Juliet. And this girl, it talks about
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  her feelings and they're saying, I love you all the time, and
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  it's just very loving relationship.
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  Those guys can also get trained to be more emotionally aware and
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  empathic, and then they can get laid like it's their job to when
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  they get out of this relationship.
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  If they get out of it, because they know how to connect to
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  women. To basically the point is, you
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  got to learn from a woman how to talk to women.
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  So, there's only so much that you can do, if you do not
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  practice with women how to talk to women.
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  So, when you are thinking about your wife's complaints, think,
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  is she more in the camper? She's like, like Go, like kind
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  of like go do something, you know, like if she kind of
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  pushing you away like wishing you were more independent, in
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  that case. Certainly she's going to be more
• 12:44
  aroused and attracted if you get more independent right, but in
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  the case, where your wife is like kind of begging for
• 12:51
  closeness emotionally and always saying like you don't seem to
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  have any feelings. Well then you're the avoidant
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  partner and she is begging you to get more in tune with your
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  emotionality because for women and For men, when a motion is
• 13:06
  involved in sex. That is the most transcendental
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  sex and I talk to. So I mean you can really think
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  about it by this is a good chi chi.
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  I always ask men in session and, you know, women when they're
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  coming in with the sexual problem as well.
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  Do you say, I love you during sex and if you never say, I love
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  you during sex, you're probably an avoidant person motion Ali
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  and you have no idea how much more it would supercharge your
• 13:29
  sex life if you did, because your partner may be waiting,
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  wishing that there was some kind of Connection and in fact has
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  stopped having sex with you because the sex seems so wrote
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  and detached from emotion and this is not going to be the case
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  if you are the preoccupied attachment partner.
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  If you're the guy that's always like I love you sweetheart.
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  You're so beautiful. You're so this year so that if
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  you're that guy and you're not getting laid, then there are
• 13:54
  other issues where you need to work on maybe being a strong and
• 13:57
  assertive man and maybe that can help and or maybe she just done
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  with you in the marriage doesn't work.
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  I mean, I don't know your situation.
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  But if you're a guy and many men are in the situation where your
• 14:08
  wife regularly is sad, that you don't express feelings and
• 14:13
  wishes you did. Don't get into some crazy idea
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  that if you did, she wouldn't like it.
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  She already doesn't like what's going on.
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  It can only go up and I had seen it improve dramatically when men
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  that I work with grow more in touch with their emotion.
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  They understand the links between their upbringing and
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  their current functioning they understand.
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  Wife's internal experience and can empathize.
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  And finally say that, they understand how she feels about
• 14:41
  something. This isn't just like bullshit,
• 14:43
  like cliche stuff and then somehow the woman is going to
• 14:47
  grow less attracted to you like that.
• 14:51
  Let's seems to be like the thought, but that's only in the
• 14:54
  case. Where the men already are
• 14:57
  starting out kind of anxious and needy and the wife is the more
• 15:00
  avoidant partner and I did a podcast on avoidant wives, you
• 15:04
  know? So you You can listen and see if
• 15:05
  your wife's an avoidant wife. And you've been the pursuer
• 15:08
  emotionally? Well, yeah, then maybe you need
• 15:10
  to work on neediness but this is not the case for many men and
• 15:13
  those men individual therapy, particularly with female
• 15:17
  therapist. It's interesting because
• 15:19
  everybody wants a female therapist, both men and women.
• 15:22
  So I tried to hire a male therapist, he's great for my
• 15:25
  practice, but so many people just want my female clinicians,
• 15:28
  you know, because I guess it's like a mother figure, you know,
• 15:31
  like they can open up more readily both genders.
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  So if Are a man and you work with a female clinician.
• 15:37
  That's when you can almost practice having more, you know,
• 15:41
  emotional expression with a woman on, kind of understand in
• 15:44
  real time, how women think the female perspective, especially
• 15:50
  as the relationship, the Therapeutic Alliance develops
• 15:53
  over over sessions over the time span of your work together.
• 15:57
  So that is where it's just the same as when men are.
• 16:02
  Like it's no good when she just goes into these He's basically
• 16:05
  social media, Echo Chambers, where all her friends bitch
• 16:08
  about their husband. She ends up more mad at me, she
• 16:10
  had no shit, like you're right, you know?
• 16:12
  But it's the same exact thing when men only talk to other men
• 16:16
  about what women want. Like that is, that's not good
• 16:20
  either. So there needs to be a lot of
• 16:21
  cross dialogue which was why you know the collaboration that's a
• 16:26
  fancy social media term with Dad.
• 16:28
  Starting over with interesting said had men and women that were
• 16:31
  tending that session. So this was just something that
• 16:34
  I I thought about when I was hearing what he, so, like, for
• 16:38
  example, if he's working with a lot of anxious guys who've
• 16:42
  experienced, it Fidelity or scared that their marriage is
• 16:44
  going to end for every one of those guys, there's like 12,
• 16:47
  guys, who's, who kind of don't really, you know, care to ever
• 16:53
  really research, why their wife's upset at them, at all,
• 16:55
  and they're really not getting laid that much either or if they
• 16:58
  are, she kind of seems somewhere else while they're doing it.
• 17:01
  And those guys would benefit from being I'm more romantic
• 17:06
  more emotionally expressive more vulnerable, sharing and
• 17:10
  insecurity, as you heard, or you can hear in my mr.
• 17:14
  Perfect. And his crazy wife podcast, when
• 17:16
  the man acts too perfect. Oh, look at mr.
• 17:19
  Perfect. He does everything.
• 17:21
  Right. The woman doesn't like that.
• 17:23
  She doesn't feel. She's with a real person.
• 17:25
  This is not like a man that she can understand.
• 17:28
  This is not like a character in a novel.
• 17:30
  He's kind of like a robot. She doesn't know why he does
• 17:33
  anything he does because he doesn't either.
• 17:34
  And they don't talk about it. Here he goes on, autopilot takes
• 17:38
  a run comes back. Hangs out with a kid wants to
• 17:41
  have sex, goes to work. It's like being with that.
• 17:44
  You know, somebody that is like fake.
• 17:47
  And when these sorts of men who are more avoided can learn to
• 17:50
  access their vulnerable side, it could be transformative for
• 17:54
  their relationship, their wives finally feel like they're back
• 17:57
  in that room you and Juliette face like that.
• 17:59
  They could have been with a high school boyfriend.
• 18:01
  If they had one where they're talking all the time about you
• 18:04
  know, Oh, I love you so much. And like, what are a man of that
• 18:08
  sort? That's avoidant if he says to a
• 18:11
  woman, I would I would be devastated if you ever left me.
• 18:15
  Oh my God, she's gonna be so excited.
• 18:17
  Whereas of course if a man who's always following her around like
• 18:20
  a puppy dog says it. She's like yeah, I know you'd be
• 18:23
  devastated if I left you. I know I know because you
• 18:25
  constantly following me around so I guess I know that but it's
• 18:29
  so different. When a man who doesn't do that
• 18:31
  usually who has been trained to be more quote unquote stoic when
• 18:34
  Says something so romantic like that or you make my life worth
• 18:38
  living everything, you know that we have these children,
• 18:41
  everything is due to you, something like that.
• 18:44
  Those are the things people come in and they say that, finally,
• 18:47
  my husband said something like this, some big romantic,
• 18:51
  emotional expressive thing. And then we had like the best
• 18:53
  sex we ever had. So this is just a PSA.
• 18:56
  They are can be too little emotion.
• 18:58
  Of course, as every woman knows, you know, or most women know
• 19:03
  that are not avoidant attachment.
• 19:04
  And try to supercharge your relationship by adding some in
• 19:08
  if you are in this more classic male role of the one, who is
• 19:12
  less emotional. So hopefully, you guys got
• 19:16
  something out of this. Please do.
• 19:18
  Let me know. And, you know, subscribe and all
• 19:22
  of that same stuff that I always say.
• 19:24
  And I hope that you have a great day and a great weekend.