Latest / Mediumship Sparks-The Next Chapter / Leaving a Faith That Defined Everything: One Woman's Religious Recovery

Transcript

Leaving a Faith That Defined Everything: One Woman's Religious Recovery · Mediumship Sparks-The Next Chapter

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to mediumship Sparks, where we connect more deeply with
0:04
Speaker 1: spirit and source and follow the sparks of insight and
0:07
Speaker 1: inspiration that bring us greater awareness, healing, and just more
0:10
Speaker 1: flow into our lives. I'm Noel dean intuitive medium, licensed therapist.
0:15
Speaker 2: And your host.
0:16
Speaker 1: A quick note before we begin. This podcast is for
0:18
Speaker 1: educational purposes only and provides general information. It is not
0:22
Speaker 1: medical or psychological advice and is not a substitute for
0:25
Speaker 1: care from a licensed health professional. I'm so grateful we
0:28
Speaker 1: get to step into this together. Let's dig in.
0:31
Speaker 2: How are you doing anddra I'm good. It's early in
0:34
Speaker 2: the morning here. I'm currently in Southeast Asia. I'll be
0:38
Speaker 2: moving back to the US in just over a week.
0:42
Speaker 2: Big move.
0:42
Speaker 1: How long have you been in East Asia?
0:45
Speaker 2: Three years? We moved overseas thirteen years ago. My husband
0:52
Speaker 2: and I are teachers, were international school teachers. This is
0:56
Speaker 2: the fourth country that we've lived in time to go back,
1:01
Speaker 2: you must.
1:02
Speaker 1: Have so many experiences, such different cultures, and then you
1:05
Speaker 1: acclimate another different culture.
1:07
Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, it's definitely a culture shock every time we've moved.
1:11
Speaker 2: But we've learned so many things that we wouldn't have
1:15
Speaker 2: learned otherwise, And for me, that's actually part of my
1:19
Speaker 2: story is when I moved overseas, then I was able
1:23
Speaker 2: to zoom out and see things with a bird's eye view,
1:28
Speaker 2: and I had that physical space to be able to
1:31
Speaker 2: start to see it really for what it was. Wow.
1:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect segue into introducing yourself and why you're here today.
1:42
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited to.
1:44
Speaker 2: Talk to you.
1:44
Speaker 1: You have helped to open my eyes to dive into
1:48
Speaker 1: a whole rabbit hole of stuff. But please tell us
1:51
Speaker 1: about yourself, audrophelps.
1:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm currently transitioning careers. So I have been in
1:57
Speaker 2: international education for the last thirteen year years, been a
2:01
Speaker 2: teacher and now school director. But my real passion is
2:07
Speaker 2: helping moms who have left the Mormon Church. I grew
2:12
Speaker 2: up Mormon and was in a very strict Mormon household,
2:19
Speaker 2: and it was years and years of basically learning to
2:22
Speaker 2: distrust myself. I was the one in Sunday School, Like
2:28
Speaker 2: that doesn't make any sense. I was told that my
2:31
Speaker 2: doubts were sinful and if I had a doubt, that
2:34
Speaker 2: it was because I didn't have enough faith and that
2:38
Speaker 2: was Satan tempting me, and so I needed to read
2:42
Speaker 2: my scriptures more and pray more because I needed to
2:45
Speaker 2: make my will the Lord's will. So those things were
2:48
Speaker 2: repeated to me ad nauseum growing up. And what that
2:53
Speaker 2: taught me was that any kind of feelings or emotions
2:56
Speaker 2: I had were wrong and needed to be buried and
3:00
Speaker 2: pushed down. I didn't realize the damage of that because
3:06
Speaker 2: it was just yes, you're right. I need to be
3:08
Speaker 2: more righteous because I don't want my eternal salvation to
3:12
Speaker 2: be put into question because I'm doubting. And the life
3:16
Speaker 2: in the church is very prescribed, especially as a woman,
3:20
Speaker 2: your path is very straight and narrow. You know exactly
3:24
Speaker 2: what your purpose is, and that is to get married
3:28
Speaker 2: in the Mormon temple and then have children and grow
3:33
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of God. That was my purpose. I moved
3:36
Speaker 2: w into that life and I did all of that.
3:38
Speaker 2: I had to temple marriage. I'm still married to the
3:41
Speaker 2: same person, so for us, it really worked out. I
3:44
Speaker 2: got married at twenty I had only known him for
3:46
Speaker 2: six months when I got married and started having kids
3:50
Speaker 2: right away, so I had my oldest when I was
3:52
Speaker 2: only twenty two years old. I was really a baby
3:55
Speaker 2: raising a baby, but it's what everybody was doing. Everybody
3:58
Speaker 2: my age was getting married, having babies. I had three kids,
4:01
Speaker 2: And fast forward a little bit. I was living in
4:04
Speaker 2: Idaho at the time, and my first real sign that
4:09
Speaker 2: something was off was I was having severe anxiety and
4:14
Speaker 2: depression to the point where I was having panic attacks,
4:17
Speaker 2: like almost every day. And I couldn't figure out what
4:22
Speaker 2: it was. And it wasn't until after I really left
4:25
Speaker 2: the church that I figured out what it was. Now,
4:28
Speaker 2: looking back, I recognized that was my body screaming at
4:32
Speaker 2: me that I was living in a life that was
4:34
Speaker 2: not aligned with who I was. I didn't recognize it
4:39
Speaker 2: for what it was. I thought I should try on adepressants,
4:42
Speaker 2: or I should try some different methods. I didn't really
4:44
Speaker 2: know the cause of it all right. I was doing
4:47
Speaker 2: everything that I was told would bring happiness. I was
4:51
Speaker 2: doing everything that a righteous woman in the church does.
4:56
Speaker 2: I was reading my scriptures. I was a stay at
4:57
Speaker 2: home mom, even though I desperately wanted to work. I
5:00
Speaker 2: was told, no, you're a nurturer. Your place is in
5:03
Speaker 2: the home. But I was doing everything they told me
5:08
Speaker 2: to do and still just really struggling. Through some other experiences,
5:14
Speaker 2: I realized that I was very dependent. I was very
5:18
Speaker 2: dependent on the church for everything, and dependent on my
5:22
Speaker 2: husband for the finances of the family. And we were
5:26
Speaker 2: living in Idaho. He was a teacher. We didn't make
5:28
Speaker 2: that much money, so we were pretty poor. We would
5:31
Speaker 2: go to the church for financial help. Sometimes I was
5:34
Speaker 2: grateful for that help, but that help also came at
5:38
Speaker 2: a price, and it made me feel very worthless, like
5:42
Speaker 2: I was nothing without the church. One thing that experience
5:46
Speaker 2: taught me was I'm not going to be dependent on
5:50
Speaker 2: anyone again. So I made the decision to go back
5:53
Speaker 2: to school. I was courageous enough to say, Okay, I'm
5:56
Speaker 2: going to go back to school and I'm going to
5:58
Speaker 2: have something for me. I had three kids at this point,
6:02
Speaker 2: but wasn't quite courageous enough or aware enough to make
6:08
Speaker 2: a career decision that was really what I wanted to do.
6:12
Speaker 2: It was all about, Okay, if I'm going to have
6:15
Speaker 2: a career and I'm going to work, it's going to
6:17
Speaker 2: be something that's really best for the family. It's got
6:20
Speaker 2: to suit the family. And so I became a teacher,
6:24
Speaker 2: because what's the most benign job of Mormon Mompkin' app
6:27
Speaker 2: you have the same schedule as my kids. No one
6:30
Speaker 2: was going to look at me sideways for being a teacher,
6:34
Speaker 2: and then so that started to give me some independence.
6:37
Speaker 2: I started to have something that was just mine and
6:39
Speaker 2: I was a high school biology teacher. I loved science,
6:43
Speaker 2: so that part of it was fun. And we got
6:46
Speaker 2: turned onto the world of international teaching, and we knew
6:50
Speaker 2: that we really wanted our kids to have a broad worldview.
6:53
Speaker 2: We wanted our kids to have a variety of different experiences,
6:57
Speaker 2: but as two teachers in Idaho, we wouldn't have been
6:59
Speaker 2: able to provide a lot of that for them. So
7:01
Speaker 2: when we found out about these American private schools overseas,
7:05
Speaker 2: and I can teach biology, and what's not just teaching English? Right,
7:10
Speaker 2: We've sold everything that we owned except for two suitcases
7:14
Speaker 2: per person, and we moved to a country we'd never
7:18
Speaker 2: been to before. We went to Kazakhstan. It's not exactly
7:21
Speaker 2: a common country that most people moved to. But what
7:25
Speaker 2: that did for me is it gave me this separation
7:30
Speaker 2: from the Church. I was able to start paying attention
7:34
Speaker 2: to the messages that I was receiving in the church
7:37
Speaker 2: and the Mormon monoculture. It's very insular. Your whole life
7:41
Speaker 2: is prescribed for you, what you eat, what you drink,
7:43
Speaker 2: what you do on Sundays and Mondays and Wednesdays and Saturdays,
7:46
Speaker 2: and what your social circle is and all of that.
7:48
Speaker 2: It keeps you very busy and always connected with other
7:52
Speaker 2: members of the church. When I was overseas and totally
7:56
Speaker 2: come out of that, I could start to recognize the
7:59
Speaker 2: message and I start to analyze it. I was so
8:02
Speaker 2: caught up in the minutia of every day living, of
8:05
Speaker 2: the expectation of a Mormon wife and mother, that I
8:08
Speaker 2: couldn't make sense of it until I had that physical separation.
8:14
Speaker 2: The other thing moving overseas did for me was it
8:19
Speaker 2: gave me so many experiences with other cultures and other
8:25
Speaker 2: religions that didn't match what I was told. When I
8:29
Speaker 2: was in the church, and I would go to a
8:33
Speaker 2: Hindu temple in India and see these dedicated people who
8:37
Speaker 2: were there, and I would think, gosh, I thought Mormons
8:41
Speaker 2: were the most dedicated. Then I would go to a
8:45
Speaker 2: Catholic cathedral and it would feel spiritual and sacred, and
8:50
Speaker 2: I was like, I thought Mormons were the only ones
8:53
Speaker 2: that had sacred places. I thought these other places were
8:57
Speaker 2: based on evil and they were wrong. But I didn't
8:59
Speaker 2: feel that way at all going to Psorastrian temple or
9:04
Speaker 2: a Muslim mosque and seeing people so dedicated and committed
9:09
Speaker 2: to their faiths made me go, oh, there is a
9:14
Speaker 2: whole other way of doing life out here, and who
9:17
Speaker 2: am I to say that they're wrong? I can't say
9:21
Speaker 2: that even though I was taught that. So it was
9:25
Speaker 2: really a slow erosion of a lot of experiences, slowly
9:29
Speaker 2: learning to start listening to myself and paying attention to
9:33
Speaker 2: how things felt, and then it gave me the courage.
9:36
Speaker 2: The straw that broke the camel's back for me was
9:38
Speaker 2: two years after we'd been overseas, the church came out
9:41
Speaker 2: with a policy that children of gay parents would be
9:46
Speaker 2: considered apostates of the church and would not be able
9:51
Speaker 2: to receive the blessings of the church. They framed it
9:55
Speaker 2: as love and protecting children. Because of all of my
9:59
Speaker 2: life life experience, all of my questioning my time overseas,
10:04
Speaker 2: when they came out with that statement, I immediately wanted
10:07
Speaker 2: to throw up. I thought, this isn't love, this is hate.
10:14
Speaker 2: If that had come out ten years prior, I probably
10:16
Speaker 2: would have just fallen right in line. But I could
10:19
Speaker 2: see it for what it was. I remember just standing up,
10:22
Speaker 2: walking upstairs, going into my bedroom, I took off my
10:26
Speaker 2: Mormon garments and I looked at myself in the mirror
10:28
Speaker 2: and I said, I am not Mormon. And even all
10:34
Speaker 2: those years of questioning, that was the one sentence I
10:36
Speaker 2: could never say, because it was I am. It was identity,
10:39
Speaker 2: that was the deepest part of me. I said those words,
10:43
Speaker 2: and I had so much certainty, and I felt like
10:48
Speaker 2: the whole world just opened up into a million stars.
10:51
Speaker 2: I felt so light and airy. That's the quick overview
10:55
Speaker 2: of my experience of leaving the church, deconstructing my faith
11:00
Speaker 2: and realizing that I had been conditioned to fall in
11:04
Speaker 2: line and obedience was number one. If I wasn't obedient,
11:10
Speaker 2: then something was wrong with me and I needed to
11:13
Speaker 2: fix me. When I left, it was so lonely. I
11:18
Speaker 2: was grieving a lot of things doesn't go over well
11:21
Speaker 2: with family, loss of community, but also loss of self.
11:25
Speaker 2: I knew what I wasn't, but I didn't know what
11:27
Speaker 2: I was. I was raising my kids at the same time,
11:31
Speaker 2: and that was petrifying because my kids were ages nine
11:35
Speaker 2: to eleven and thirteen. When I left. The church gave
11:37
Speaker 2: me a blueprint of exactly how to be a mom,
11:40
Speaker 2: exactly how to raise kids, what age they should date,
11:43
Speaker 2: so specific that now, what am I going to do?
11:47
Speaker 2: Because I can't even figure out who I am? How
11:52
Speaker 2: am I going to figure out how to raise my kids?
11:54
Speaker 2: But it was really scary that was eleven years ago.
11:57
Speaker 2: Moms that are leaving now I know what they're going through,
12:01
Speaker 2: and I know I can Hell, that's what I've been doing,
12:04
Speaker 2: coaching women after they've left, work through these emotions so
12:08
Speaker 2: they can come to a better place. You don't have
12:11
Speaker 2: to stay stuck in that anger, at hurt, that confusion, right,
12:16
Speaker 2: like the grief part of it. So that one's huge,
12:18
Speaker 2: and that one still rears its head, right. I've heard
12:21
Speaker 2: it described as waves in the ocean. The wave comes
12:24
Speaker 2: and then it recedes, but the ocean keeps giving waves.
12:28
Speaker 1: They blow down, they get small. You've answered so many
12:31
Speaker 1: of my questions because you've covered a lot of really
12:33
Speaker 1: great emotional territory, the idea of being raised to have
12:38
Speaker 1: a very clear sense of who you are, who you
12:40
Speaker 1: should be, who you should strive to be, period, no question. Yeah,
12:46
Speaker 1: and you choose to step away from all of that.
12:49
Speaker 1: As I was sitting with your perspective and coming from
12:53
Speaker 1: let's say this post Mormon, let's say an inner revolution.
12:57
Speaker 1: You could also liken that to people who've come from
12:59
Speaker 1: a bus use of families or families related to alcoholism
13:05
Speaker 1: or other substance abuse and addiction where children have a
13:09
Speaker 1: prescribed role. It's not exactly what you're describing. What you're
13:13
Speaker 1: describing is the whole world that you lived in, according
13:17
Speaker 1: to you and your family, was the church and its
13:20
Speaker 1: tenants and its beliefs and its norms and its requirements,
13:25
Speaker 1: and then natural process of you becoming curious and using
13:29
Speaker 1: your own discernment and questioning authority and how shut down
13:34
Speaker 1: you are. Some of that could be likened to other cultures,
13:38
Speaker 1: other religions, other types of families, kind of thing. How
13:43
Speaker 1: shocking that was when you stepped into other cultures. You
13:47
Speaker 1: also sound like somebody who was very somatic, very connected
13:50
Speaker 1: to your body, and you had these visceral responses to
13:53
Speaker 1: being in these other spiritual religious places that you were
13:57
Speaker 1: told were maybe evil or not as clean and pure
14:01
Speaker 1: as what you ought to believe. In that sense of
14:04
Speaker 1: actually listening to yourself must have been profound, that you
14:07
Speaker 1: could actually let yourself really feel and hear what your
14:11
Speaker 1: body was telling.
14:12
Speaker 2: You, Yeah, exactly, I could let myself, and I could
14:16
Speaker 2: let myself because I had the physical separation from the church. Yeah,
14:21
Speaker 2: there was nobody right next to me with the negative
14:24
Speaker 2: talk in my ear, and I could actually sit with it.
14:28
Speaker 1: Wow, big difference.
14:32
Speaker 2: So here's a question for you.
14:33
Speaker 1: How long have you been helping other women detox from
14:38
Speaker 1: the socialization and rebuild themselves? Because you would have had
14:44
Speaker 1: to have a level of I don't want to say mastery,
14:47
Speaker 1: but maybe mastery. How long have you been helping other people.
14:49
Speaker 2: I've been helping other people for about a year now,
14:53
Speaker 2: just part time because I'm wrapping up my career here overseas.
14:57
Speaker 2: It's now the end of our school year and we
15:00
Speaker 2: actually have graduation today, so it's the end of my
15:03
Speaker 2: school year and I'm closing the book on this chapter
15:07
Speaker 2: of my life. So I've been helping women part time
15:11
Speaker 2: for about a year. But now I'm moving back to
15:14
Speaker 2: the US and I'm going to do this full time
15:15
Speaker 2: because I see the need and I see how powerful
15:19
Speaker 2: this work can be and how transformational it can be.
15:23
Speaker 2: But it's taken me the detox really as you describe it,
15:29
Speaker 2: and that's still happening. There's still things that I uncover
15:33
Speaker 2: that I'm like, oh, why was I triggered by that? Okay,
15:36
Speaker 2: there's something that needs to be healed there that I
15:39
Speaker 2: haven't peeled back yet basically, But I would say about
15:43
Speaker 2: three years ago for me, what really turned me on
15:47
Speaker 2: to this is what I want to do is I
15:50
Speaker 2: was I'll give you a very simple story, but I
15:53
Speaker 2: think it illustrates the point really well. I'd already been
15:55
Speaker 2: out of the church about eight years, and I was
16:01
Speaker 2: making Thanksgiving dinner for my family and I still had
16:06
Speaker 2: the perfectionist Borman mom and me and bit of the
16:10
Speaker 2: trad wife in there as well. So it was like,
16:14
Speaker 2: everything has to be from scratch. We're gonna have all
16:17
Speaker 2: the sides everything, I'm gonna make it all. So I'm
16:19
Speaker 2: making pie the crust from scratch, and I make it
16:22
Speaker 2: the night before. So I'm making apple pie in the kitchen.
16:25
Speaker 2: I'm cutting the apples, and I'm finding myself feeling really
16:29
Speaker 2: resentful that I'm making apple pie and I'm spending all
16:33
Speaker 2: this time in the kitchen. Oh, why I am making
16:37
Speaker 2: apple pie? Why am I making apple pie? I don't
16:39
Speaker 2: even like apple pie? Then, why am I making apple pie?
16:42
Speaker 2: Because it's my husband's favorite, and so I have made
16:46
Speaker 2: apple pie every single year. So then I was like,
16:51
Speaker 2: he always gets his favorite every year, what's my favorite?
16:56
Speaker 2: And I didn't even know, Like I really didn't know
17:02
Speaker 2: I had spent At this point, I was in my
17:04
Speaker 2: mid forties, So I'm like, I had spent over forty
17:07
Speaker 2: years making sure everybody else was okay, everybody else was happy,
17:12
Speaker 2: everybody else had what they wanted. That it wasn't even
17:16
Speaker 2: making sure I had something I wanted. I didn't even
17:18
Speaker 2: know what I wanted. That set me down a really
17:22
Speaker 2: dark rabbit hole of what I call grieving the life
17:25
Speaker 2: on lived. So I went down what would my life
17:29
Speaker 2: have been like if I didn't get married so young
17:33
Speaker 2: or married someone else? What would my life have been
17:36
Speaker 2: like if I had kids later in life or didn't
17:41
Speaker 2: have kids at all? What would my life have been
17:45
Speaker 2: like if I had chosen a career that was something
17:48
Speaker 2: I really wanted to do? And those are some heavy questions.
17:53
Speaker 2: Right at the time, I came across a woman on Instagram.
17:59
Speaker 2: She was a coach, and like all of her posts,
18:01
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, she's seeing into my soul.
18:04
Speaker 2: And she had this program that was all about making
18:07
Speaker 2: the decision of whether to stay or go in your marriage.
18:11
Speaker 2: I stalked her for a while, but that was the
18:14
Speaker 2: biggest question for me, and I couldn't make sense of it.
18:17
Speaker 2: I felt like a pink punk ball on a pink
18:19
Speaker 2: punk table, like back and forth yes no, yes, no,
18:21
Speaker 2: and I couldn't make sense of the emotions. So I
18:27
Speaker 2: contacted her. I joined her program, and it was totally
18:30
Speaker 2: different than I expected it to be. It wasn't just Okay,
18:34
Speaker 2: we're going to make a pros and cons list and
18:37
Speaker 2: which decision looks best for you. It was diving into identity.
18:42
Speaker 2: Let's figure out who you are. Let's get into your body.
18:45
Speaker 2: Let's pay attention to your intuition. Let's observe your emotions
18:50
Speaker 2: and find those emotional triggers. Let's figure out what emotion
18:55
Speaker 2: you're in and see if we can get you to
18:56
Speaker 2: a better feeling emotion. That were was transformative for me,
19:02
Speaker 2: because even though the purpose of the program was stay
19:05
Speaker 2: or go in your marriage, I was unraveling what I
19:09
Speaker 2: call the inner Mormon critic that was still in my
19:11
Speaker 2: head that I thought I had dealt with. There was
19:14
Speaker 2: still so many layers I needed to uncover, and I
19:18
Speaker 2: was living based on some of these conditioned beliefs of
19:23
Speaker 2: what I thought a good mom was, what I thought
19:26
Speaker 2: a good wife was, what made me a good person,
19:29
Speaker 2: And those were definitions that were given to me from
19:32
Speaker 2: the church. Those were not definitions that were mine. At
19:35
Speaker 2: the end of the program, I made the decision to
19:37
Speaker 2: stay with my husband. I was one hundred percent sure
19:40
Speaker 2: of that, and I made the decision from a place
19:42
Speaker 2: of peace. I chose him over twenty years ago. I
19:47
Speaker 2: still choose him today. And as I was talking to
19:49
Speaker 2: my coach and she was like, Okay, what's next for you?
19:52
Speaker 2: I said, I think I'm also in a career that
19:55
Speaker 2: needs to change. She said, okay, what of things do
20:00
Speaker 2: you like about the job you have now? And what
20:02
Speaker 2: do you think you might want to do? And I said,
20:04
Speaker 2: I really loved working with the students when they would
20:07
Speaker 2: come into my classroom and kind of download all their
20:10
Speaker 2: problems onto me. And I really liked when I moved
20:13
Speaker 2: into administration that parents would come into my office and
20:16
Speaker 2: ask for support with their kids. How do I handle
20:18
Speaker 2: this situation where my child is struggling. I really liked
20:22
Speaker 2: the coaching aspect of my job, and I said, and
20:26
Speaker 2: the work that I've done in this program has been
20:29
Speaker 2: so transformational. I can see the power of coaching. And
20:34
Speaker 2: she said what demographic do you want to work with?
20:36
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, gosh, I don't really know.
20:39
Speaker 2: And she said, have you ever thought of working with
20:41
Speaker 2: other ex Mormon moms? And again I had the full
20:44
Speaker 2: body reaction. I burst into tears and I was like,
20:48
Speaker 2: that's it. When I left, it was like I was
20:51
Speaker 2: on the other side of the world and I didn't
20:53
Speaker 2: know anyone else who had left. So I was trying
20:55
Speaker 2: to explain to my friends the emotions I was going through,
20:58
Speaker 2: and they didn't really get it. They didn't even know
21:00
Speaker 2: what Mormonism was. I found myself explaining Mormonism at the
21:06
Speaker 2: same time explaining my emotions around leaving it. I did
21:11
Speaker 2: a coaching certification program for NLP practitioners, so I am
21:16
Speaker 2: trained as an NLP, which stands for neuro Linguistic Programming coach.
21:20
Speaker 2: I've started working with women full time and now I
21:24
Speaker 2: have a full program that's launching soon, group coaching, individual coaching,
21:29
Speaker 2: and a curriculum to help them walk through all the
21:32
Speaker 2: different layers that come with deconstructing, but mostly reconstructing and
21:38
Speaker 2: finding out what's next?
21:41
Speaker 1: Love that? What is the difference really when you were
21:44
Speaker 1: breaking out of this mold that you were so cast
21:49
Speaker 1: in and everything about your life fit into that, and
21:54
Speaker 1: then you're trying to recreate this new life that actually
21:58
Speaker 1: feels true to you. I'm sitting in the idea of that.
22:04
Speaker 1: And is it freedom? Is it terrifying? What do you keep?
22:07
Speaker 1: What do you throw away? How do you discern that
22:10
Speaker 1: for yourself? To try to do that from a place
22:12
Speaker 1: that's actually clean, not still carrying some of the judgment
22:17
Speaker 1: and the morality that was imposed on you.
22:20
Speaker 2: That, honestly, that's the hardest part, and that's a lifelong process.
22:24
Speaker 2: I still do that. I would say the first thing
22:26
Speaker 2: I start to talk to women about is like we
22:30
Speaker 2: were saying, listen to your body, because if you ask
22:33
Speaker 2: a woman, Okay, what is it that you want, then
22:35
Speaker 2: let's dream big. That's daunting. They've never been allowed to dream.
22:42
Speaker 2: They don't know, Like my Thanksgiving pie story, you ask
22:47
Speaker 2: them what they want for dinner and they're going to say,
22:49
Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you want? Or it depends
22:52
Speaker 2: on what the kids want. They can't figure out what
22:54
Speaker 2: they want for dinner because they have had so many
22:58
Speaker 2: years of paying attention to everyone else's needs, that they
23:03
Speaker 2: first have to start super small, learning to pay attention
23:08
Speaker 2: to those feelings in their body. If something feels expansive
23:12
Speaker 2: and open and light, then it's a yes. And something
23:15
Speaker 2: feels constrictive and tighten their throat, then it's a no.
23:19
Speaker 2: But they have to practice that with little things. You're
23:23
Speaker 2: driving in the car and you can take two different
23:25
Speaker 2: ways home, which way feels good. Start practicing that because
23:29
Speaker 2: if you can't make it those decisions, if you can't
23:32
Speaker 2: pay attention for the little things and those big things,
23:34
Speaker 2: they are not going to be a familiar process for you.
23:38
Speaker 2: And paying attention to your emotions. So when you start
23:42
Speaker 2: to feel something has triggered you and you feel constrictive,
23:47
Speaker 2: there's probably a belief there that's not aligning with who
23:54
Speaker 2: you are. And your well worn pattern is just to
23:58
Speaker 2: say yes anyway though your body is saying no. But
24:02
Speaker 2: there's some kind of a belief there that's not aligning
24:04
Speaker 2: with you. What is really powerful is journaling and taking
24:09
Speaker 2: the time to sit with old fashioned put your phone away,
24:13
Speaker 2: old fashioned paper and pencil, so that you have the
24:16
Speaker 2: processing time as you're writing to ask yourself some specific questions,
24:22
Speaker 2: what is the feeling that I have here? Where is
24:25
Speaker 2: this coming from? What is the belief that I have?
24:30
Speaker 2: And usually the belief goes back to some definition of
24:33
Speaker 2: a good mom that you're not living up to. Pay
24:36
Speaker 2: attention to what the belief is, and then start poking
24:38
Speaker 2: holes in it. When did I decide that? Who gave
24:43
Speaker 2: me that belief? If it didn't come from you, then
24:45
Speaker 2: it came from an outside source, and it's probably not
24:48
Speaker 2: a belief that's yours. Then let's start rewiring your brain
24:53
Speaker 2: that this is not an absolute truth? Is this always true?
24:57
Speaker 2: Is there ever a time this is not true? Working
25:00
Speaker 2: through those questions to rewire so that belief is not
25:07
Speaker 2: the immediate pattern, and then finding a belief that feels good,
25:11
Speaker 2: that feels expansive, that feels open and light, and creating
25:16
Speaker 2: a new pattern for you. And that's a process that
25:20
Speaker 2: I do multiple times a week, because you're gonna be triggered.
25:24
Speaker 2: There's gonna be times where you feel frustration or anger
25:26
Speaker 2: and Okay, where's this coming from? And so it's a
25:31
Speaker 2: very deliberate process, but it's transformational.
25:34
Speaker 1: I talk a lot about self trust and the idea
25:38
Speaker 1: of creating your own discernment and feeling out what feels right.
25:41
Speaker 1: Different kind of process, but the same process. So you're
25:45
Speaker 1: talking about this way of self reflecting and dissecting these reactions,
25:49
Speaker 1: these responses. I've been sitting in this information. Like I
25:52
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, you opened up this rabbit hole
25:55
Speaker 1: as I'm preparing to have this conversation, a culmination of
25:58
Speaker 1: things I've been sitting with about my own life as
26:01
Speaker 1: well as what I look to bring to the podcast
26:03
Speaker 1: and in conversations that I have with people. And it's
26:06
Speaker 1: dissecting these ways that we have come to expect ourselves
26:11
Speaker 1: to behave because that's what we were taught. Maybe it
26:13
Speaker 1: was being a good girl, being a good Mormon wife.
26:16
Speaker 1: There's so many expectations embedded and who we are, and
26:19
Speaker 1: it's like we have to reach in and pull something
26:22
Speaker 1: out when we feel it, something clanking inside. I don't
26:25
Speaker 1: know what it is, and then you pull it out
26:27
Speaker 1: and really look at it, hopefully without judgment of yourself,
26:31
Speaker 1: to understand where does it come from, what is this pattern?
26:34
Speaker 1: How did I learn this? What can I take from this?
26:37
Speaker 1: How do I let this go? How do I unravel
26:39
Speaker 1: these pieces of myself? Because it will feel like it's you, yeah,
26:44
Speaker 1: even though it's not, and then figuring out what actually
26:47
Speaker 1: is you and letting these other things slough off over time.
26:52
Speaker 1: I can appreciate about you, Audra, that you waited ten
26:57
Speaker 1: years dissecting this stuff for yourself before, or the idea
27:01
Speaker 1: of being equipped enough to support other people, because in
27:05
Speaker 1: the work I've done and I'm still doing, I'm trying
27:08
Speaker 1: to be this more authentic version of myself. I don't
27:13
Speaker 1: even know exactly what that means. It's this evolutionary process
27:17
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to be in and it's sloppy and
27:22
Speaker 1: clumsy sometimes, but what I'm noticing is this sense of
27:28
Speaker 1: being in my own skin as a person that I've
27:31
Speaker 1: never felt and I didn't even know to strive for.
27:35
Speaker 1: And I feel for you and other people that are
27:38
Speaker 1: raised in truly like a community. It's one thing to
27:41
Speaker 1: be in a dysfunctional family, and you can look at
27:43
Speaker 1: other families or even watch TV and see shows even
27:47
Speaker 1: though it shows some idealized version of something, but it
27:49
Speaker 1: shows you a different perspective that you can look at
27:52
Speaker 1: your own life and be like, wait a minute, what
27:54
Speaker 1: the but for you to be so surrounded and completely
27:59
Speaker 1: in doctrine needed into a whole way of living and lifestyle.
28:02
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how daunting that must have been, and
28:05
Speaker 1: how daunting it is for women who are just now
28:08
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this and would be so grateful
28:11
Speaker 1: to have you as their escort or shirpa that next step.
28:16
Speaker 1: It's going to feel huge because your identity is wrapped
28:19
Speaker 1: up in these sixteen different things, and how do you
28:22
Speaker 1: unravel all of that. That's just so much work to
28:25
Speaker 1: become this other version of who you actually are. They're
28:31
Speaker 1: different who you were told to become.
28:34
Speaker 2: It is so much work. When I first start working
28:36
Speaker 2: with women, I say, you have to be willing to
28:38
Speaker 2: look at the hard things. You have to be willing
28:41
Speaker 2: to process the grief and feel it. Because those, especially
28:46
Speaker 2: in the church, like a lot of those lower feeling
28:49
Speaker 2: emotions like grief or anger, those were also considered sinful
28:53
Speaker 2: and you wanted to hide them and push them down.
28:56
Speaker 2: You're going to want to feel it because feeling it,
28:58
Speaker 2: you're going to learn from it, process it, move it
29:02
Speaker 2: out of your body, and then the next time you
29:05
Speaker 2: feel it it'll feel lighter better. That's how you can
29:07
Speaker 2: get to a higher moving place. Because if it stays stuck.
29:12
Speaker 2: You're not going to break free from it. You're not
29:14
Speaker 2: going to learn from it, You're not going to find
29:18
Speaker 2: the lesson and eventually be grateful for it. I know
29:21
Speaker 2: some people hate it when I say that, but you
29:24
Speaker 2: can get to that point and when you're in the
29:26
Speaker 2: midst of it, you're like, grateful. I'm never going to
29:28
Speaker 2: be grateful for this experience, but I have now gotten
29:32
Speaker 2: to the point I can look back and the person
29:35
Speaker 2: I have become because of that experience I could have
29:37
Speaker 2: not have become any other way. I have so much
29:41
Speaker 2: more compassion and empathy than I ever had before. I
29:44
Speaker 2: can recognize manipulation very quickly now where I couldn't recognize
29:50
Speaker 2: it before. I've learned how to pay attention to my body.
29:53
Speaker 2: And if I hadn't have gone through that process of
29:55
Speaker 2: losing myself for thirty five years and then finding myself again,
30:01
Speaker 2: I don't think that I could have recognized the beauty
30:04
Speaker 2: in that so much.
30:06
Speaker 1: I love that you say that.
30:08
Speaker 2: That's how it.
30:08
Speaker 1: Feels with every big thing that happens in our lives
30:12
Speaker 1: when we're in the middle of it and we want
30:15
Speaker 1: to be really careful. When you're not the one in
30:17
Speaker 1: the middle, but your friend is and be like, Oh,
30:19
Speaker 1: you're going to feel so grateful later, yeah, And that's
30:22
Speaker 1: nobody's place to say that kind of thing. When you're
30:24
Speaker 1: in the middle of anything that's really tough, it can
30:27
Speaker 1: be very hard to be grateful because you can't imagine
30:30
Speaker 1: who you're going to become on the other side of
30:32
Speaker 1: that experience. You're not there.
30:34
Speaker 2: Can't go from anger and grief straight to gratitude. There's
30:37
Speaker 2: twenty emotions in the middle. Just like my leaving the
30:40
Speaker 2: church went from A to Z and I had to
30:42
Speaker 2: do every letter. You have to go step by step,
30:46
Speaker 2: one higher emotion at a time, from grief until you
30:50
Speaker 2: can get there. And that's not an overnight process either.
30:54
Speaker 2: One of the biggest things is starting to observe your
30:56
Speaker 2: emotions without judgment. What emotion am I in and what
31:01
Speaker 2: is it I'm feeling? Where is this coming from? What
31:05
Speaker 2: emotion do I want to be in? How can I
31:06
Speaker 2: get one level up? How can I go from grief
31:09
Speaker 2: to resentment? How can I go from resentment to hurt?
31:14
Speaker 2: How can I go from hurt to doubt? How can
31:17
Speaker 2: I go? And to just slowly work your way up
31:20
Speaker 2: to a higher emotion.
31:22
Speaker 1: At first, it felt oh, reinventing who. No, that's not
31:26
Speaker 1: quite it. What you're describing is becoming who you really
31:30
Speaker 1: are and you don't even know who that is because
31:33
Speaker 1: you have not met her yet. That sounds it sounds
31:37
Speaker 1: trite to say it. You can say it in one sentence,
31:39
Speaker 1: but it is a life changing experience to shed, really
31:43
Speaker 1: shed all of these things that you thought were you.
31:46
Speaker 1: I'm getting a visual like a body of armor that
31:48
Speaker 1: you're wearing, and each chunk of metal you have to
31:51
Speaker 1: be like, oh huh oh, yeah, that's why I kept
31:56
Speaker 1: pinching right there every time, and now I have to
31:59
Speaker 1: let this go. But you also need to put something
32:01
Speaker 1: in its place, or be okay with nothing in its place,
32:05
Speaker 1: which might even be a lot scarier.
32:09
Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of women struggle with uncertainty because growing
32:14
Speaker 2: up in a very defined religion, there's so much certainty.
32:18
Speaker 2: You're one hundred percent sure the church is the only
32:21
Speaker 2: true church, you're sure about the afterlife, you're one hundred percent,
32:24
Speaker 2: and then you leave and there's so many choices, there's
32:27
Speaker 2: so many options. I'm uncertain and that's not a feeling
32:32
Speaker 2: that is comfortable because you haven't had it before. Some
32:37
Speaker 2: of it is being comfortable in the uncertainty, being okay
32:42
Speaker 2: not knowing. And I like what you said earlier about
32:47
Speaker 2: you're still learning things about yourself now who am I?
32:50
Speaker 2: I'm still learning, that's still evolving, and I feel that
32:54
Speaker 2: way too. As I have new experiences, I'm open to
32:58
Speaker 2: learning more and changing and being flexible and being open
33:03
Speaker 2: and my opinions can change and that's okay. Not everything
33:07
Speaker 2: is absolute. Growing up in the church, things were dichotomous
33:10
Speaker 2: wrong good versus bad. There was no in the middle.
33:15
Speaker 2: But what I have learned through my life experience, through
33:18
Speaker 2: my own deep dives into who I am, is that
33:23
Speaker 2: what's right for one person might not be right for
33:27
Speaker 2: someone else. There's eight billion people on the planet. I
33:31
Speaker 2: can there'll be eight billion right ways to be and
33:34
Speaker 2: that's beautiful. It doesn't have to be I'm right, so
33:37
Speaker 2: therefore you're wrong because you're not doing what I'm doing.
33:40
Speaker 2: It can be this, Wow, let's learn from each other,
33:42
Speaker 2: and that's so great how that works for you, And
33:45
Speaker 2: maybe there's some pieces from that I can incorporate that
33:47
Speaker 2: feel good to me.
33:49
Speaker 1: I'm getting visual of an island in the middle of
33:51
Speaker 1: the ocean, and if you're hanging onto that island, because
33:54
Speaker 1: you can't imagine you'll be safe if.
33:56
Speaker 2: You let go.
33:58
Speaker 1: You really don't know where you're gonna float to drift to.
34:00
Speaker 1: Who are you going to be there, Who's going to
34:02
Speaker 1: look out for you? How are you going to support yourself?
34:04
Speaker 1: There's a lot of self trust and self faith that
34:08
Speaker 1: you must develop be able to do that, to let
34:11
Speaker 1: go of that whole world. Was close with somebody who's
34:14
Speaker 1: very much a part of a very specific religion, and
34:18
Speaker 1: it incorporates so many different beliefs of who you should
34:22
Speaker 1: be and what is right and what is wrong. It
34:24
Speaker 1: is extremely black and white, and it's so hard to
34:27
Speaker 1: have a conversation with somebody who lives that way when
34:31
Speaker 1: you don't because it's I don't even know what to say.
34:36
Speaker 1: I can't relate to that, and I feel like I
34:38
Speaker 1: can't relate to the person underneath all of those beliefs
34:42
Speaker 1: because I don't even know where This was a friend
34:44
Speaker 1: of mine from childhood. I don't even know where she
34:47
Speaker 1: is anymore. I can have compassion for why she hangs
34:51
Speaker 1: on to what she does. She would have no other
34:53
Speaker 1: way of knowing how to live, and I get that,
34:55
Speaker 1: and I can feel for her and I'll love her
34:57
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, but we may never
35:00
Speaker 1: be on the same page or even be able to
35:02
Speaker 1: have much of a conversation because it's such a different
35:05
Speaker 1: way to live.
35:07
Speaker 2: I think a lot of that has to do with safety.
35:10
Speaker 2: I think people that really hold on to a dogma,
35:16
Speaker 2: it's unsafe to let go. So I have to hold
35:20
Speaker 2: on to this because if I let go, my whole
35:22
Speaker 2: life is gonna unravel. And so it's a refusal to
35:25
Speaker 2: see anything else because of the fear of being unsafe
35:28
Speaker 2: of letting it go.
35:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely Well, here's the question. So you have family that
35:34
Speaker 1: are still in the church. Do you have any contact
35:36
Speaker 1: with them? Can you have conversations with them? You mentioned
35:39
Speaker 1: about having friends and they couldn't relate to LDS, so
35:43
Speaker 1: it was clear that they were not part of the church.
35:46
Speaker 1: How do you navigate having any connection with people that
35:50
Speaker 1: still are a.
35:50
Speaker 2: Part of that. I still have contact with some family members,
35:55
Speaker 2: not all, but it's a different relationship now than it will.
36:01
Speaker 2: It's like you were talking about with your friend where
36:03
Speaker 2: you can't relate and you know that a conversation wouldn't
36:07
Speaker 2: really lead anywhere because we have created the boundary that
36:12
Speaker 2: we don't talk about religion. So it's very superficial relationship.
36:19
Speaker 2: And there are times when things happen where I start
36:22
Speaker 2: to fell emotionally triggered. Maybe I get a text message
36:26
Speaker 2: with a scriptural quote out of the blue. I have
36:30
Speaker 2: had to put up a boundary, please don't send me
36:33
Speaker 2: those anymore. Or I get a text message with a
36:37
Speaker 2: picture of all of my Mormon family together and I
36:41
Speaker 2: wasn't invited. But the way that softens it for me
36:47
Speaker 2: is I do perspective taking, trying to understand really be
36:54
Speaker 2: in their head. Okay, they sent me this picture, and
36:59
Speaker 2: I'm immediately feeling like I don't belong. I wasn't invited,
37:03
Speaker 2: I wasn't wanted. Okay, that could be true, But what
37:09
Speaker 2: else could be true? It could be true that this
37:13
Speaker 2: was their way of trying to include me because I
37:16
Speaker 2: wasn't there. This was their way of trying to reach
37:18
Speaker 2: out and say, wish you were here. There could be
37:22
Speaker 2: other explanations for it. The story that I'm telling in
37:25
Speaker 2: my head, my conscious brain is going to try and
37:27
Speaker 2: make that fit the story that I'm already telling myself
37:31
Speaker 2: in my head. So if I get that and I'm
37:32
Speaker 2: feeling like, oh, I don't belong that's because I was
37:36
Speaker 2: already telling myself that I don't belong in my family
37:39
Speaker 2: because I've left the church. My brain's going to interpret
37:42
Speaker 2: that message to fit the story I'm already telling myself. Yeah,
37:46
Speaker 2: and so what else could be true. It could be
37:48
Speaker 2: true that actually they wanted me to be there and
37:50
Speaker 2: that was their way of including me. So that's how
37:54
Speaker 2: I deal with a lot of these family things that happen.
37:58
Speaker 2: Those are the things that help me to reframe in
38:01
Speaker 2: some perspective. Taking and the relationship is not as deep
38:05
Speaker 2: as I would like it to be, but we can
38:07
Speaker 2: still have a relationship, and I can still allow them
38:10
Speaker 2: to have their beliefs, these things that bring them happiness
38:15
Speaker 2: and conviction. That doesn't negate my ability to have that
38:20
Speaker 2: freedom as well.
38:22
Speaker 1: Like not abandoning yourself to be excitable or to sound
38:26
Speaker 1: acceptable somebody when it's really not true for you anymore.
38:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
38:33
Speaker 1: You mentioned grieving earlier, but wow, that would be so
38:37
Speaker 1: many things to have to grieve, not just your own
38:40
Speaker 1: identity and how you related to the whole world, but
38:44
Speaker 1: now how people who were part of that world are
38:47
Speaker 1: relating to you, and what you're not left with any longer.
38:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not like a grief of the death
38:54
Speaker 2: of a loved one. Loved one is still there, but
38:58
Speaker 2: it's a realization that you're really relationship is different, that
39:01
Speaker 2: you now relate to each other differently, and you're grieving
39:06
Speaker 2: what was you used to be in line with your
39:09
Speaker 2: beliefs and your ideas and now that's changed. And you
39:13
Speaker 2: belonged because you identified as Mormon, and now you don't
39:18
Speaker 2: identify that way. So it's a grief of a lot
39:21
Speaker 2: of things. I think the grief process because the people
39:25
Speaker 2: are still living and they're still part of your life.
39:28
Speaker 2: It's a wave that comes every now and then, and
39:31
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.
39:36
Speaker 1: So in the weighing out of when you're really feeling
39:39
Speaker 1: the pain of what might come across as rejection at
39:43
Speaker 1: times and the loss of your support system other than
39:47
Speaker 1: your husband, versus that sense of peace and integrity with yourself,
39:57
Speaker 1: listening to yourself, recal lebrating to construct your own life
40:04
Speaker 1: and your own beliefs. Have you ever thought about going
40:08
Speaker 1: back and how worth it is it to you now
40:11
Speaker 1: for all that you feel towards yourself and the life
40:14
Speaker 1: that you're creating.
40:16
Speaker 2: Is it worth it to percent worth it? For me,
40:19
Speaker 2: it's one hundred percent worth it because on the other side,
40:23
Speaker 2: I have experienced happiness that I never experienced in the church.
40:28
Speaker 2: I have experienced freedom I never experienced in the church.
40:32
Speaker 2: The joy and the deep connection that I have with people,
40:37
Speaker 2: with my children was not something I could have experienced
40:41
Speaker 2: if I had stayed in the church and continued with
40:46
Speaker 2: those beliefs and continued to push myself down, and continued
40:49
Speaker 2: to see myself as right and everyone else is wrong.
40:53
Speaker 2: Because the relationships that I've gained with myself and with
40:57
Speaker 2: other people, I see how it can be based on real,
41:03
Speaker 2: genuine vulnerability and safety. A few months ago, I was
41:12
Speaker 2: speaking to a coach of mine. Then she said, think
41:15
Speaker 2: of a time when you felt safe. I couldn't think
41:19
Speaker 2: of one single time in my life as a child
41:21
Speaker 2: when I felt safe. I couldn't. And then she said, okay,
41:25
Speaker 2: think of a recent time when you felt safe. And
41:27
Speaker 2: I could think of a time when I felt safe recently.
41:32
Speaker 2: And that's just to illustrate the feelings that I missed
41:37
Speaker 2: as a child growing up pushing myself down, distrusting myself.
41:44
Speaker 2: I missed out on freedom, on happiness, on safety, on security,
41:50
Speaker 2: on real belonging, because the belonging I now look back
41:55
Speaker 2: was conditional. Do you belong If you fall this path,
42:01
Speaker 2: you will be loved by God. If you're a good girl,
42:06
Speaker 2: you will have your reward in heaven. If you endure
42:09
Speaker 2: to the end and you sacrifice in this life, everything
42:12
Speaker 2: was conditional. My life's not conditional. Now I can love
42:17
Speaker 2: who I choose to love. I love my kids without conditions.
42:22
Speaker 2: It's just a whole new level that I didn't know
42:25
Speaker 2: existed before.
42:26
Speaker 1: This reminds me a bit of when we go off
42:28
Speaker 1: to college. We grow up in a town and in
42:31
Speaker 1: our family, and then we go off to college and
42:33
Speaker 1: hopefully we find our people at some point, especially when
42:36
Speaker 1: you don't feel like you really fit in or belonged
42:40
Speaker 1: where you grew up. When you're describing belonging, I'm feeling
42:44
Speaker 1: aware of it's the idea between membership versus intrinsic self.
42:49
Speaker 2: That's a very good way to think of it.
42:50
Speaker 1: I love that you're doing this work, all the toiling
42:53
Speaker 1: that you've done. I'm getting a flash of the Statue
42:56
Speaker 1: of David. People ask how did you know how to create? Basically,
43:00
Speaker 1: Michelangelo said with that piece of marble, he chiseled away
43:05
Speaker 1: everything that wasn't David, and that's.
43:07
Speaker 2: What was left. Oh how peful is that.
43:10
Speaker 1: You've done that and you're continuing? And I would question
43:13
Speaker 1: you if you felt like you were done. I'm fifty eight.
43:15
Speaker 1: I'm still unraveling things, beliefs that don't suit me or
43:20
Speaker 1: my belief system or behaviors, patterns that I still get
43:24
Speaker 1: stuck in that. I'm like, what am I doing? Why
43:27
Speaker 1: am I feeling so anxious? What am I tying into?
43:29
Speaker 1: What is really going on here? It's I feel like
43:32
Speaker 1: that's a lifelong process, and I hope that it is
43:36
Speaker 1: in a good way because you continue to evolve away
43:39
Speaker 1: from the slab of marble and you just become the
43:42
Speaker 1: David and you're helping other women do this. But do
43:46
Speaker 1: you think you would do this with people who aren't
43:49
Speaker 1: just Mormon moms leaving the church. It's okay to have
43:53
Speaker 1: your niche because you have so much rich experience from there,
43:58
Speaker 1: but do you think you could also apply that to
44:00
Speaker 1: people from maybe other religions or other cultures or family.
44:03
Speaker 2: I think the work that I do can be applied
44:05
Speaker 2: to so many different situations and people coming out of
44:10
Speaker 2: any other religion or culture, or family experience or traumatic experience,
44:14
Speaker 2: like even narcissistic relationships. People come out of that, right.
44:19
Speaker 2: I think things I do can be applied to a
44:21
Speaker 2: wide variety of circumstances and life situations. My passion is
44:27
Speaker 2: helping ex Mormon moms. Maybe in the future I'll expand that,
44:31
Speaker 2: but for now, that's the demographic that really has a
44:35
Speaker 2: place in my heart.
44:36
Speaker 1: Totally get that.
44:38
Speaker 2: Okay.
44:38
Speaker 1: For everybody who knows somebody or if you are somebody
44:41
Speaker 1: in this situation, please check out Audra's information.
44:45
Speaker 2: My business name is Mama Odra and so I have
44:48
Speaker 2: a website Mamadre dot com and on there there's a
44:51
Speaker 2: free master class that's the five shifts every former Mormon
44:55
Speaker 2: mom needs to make. So you can watch the masterclass
44:58
Speaker 2: in it that resonates, and you can schedule a call
45:00
Speaker 2: with me and we can talk about my reclaimed program.
45:03
Speaker 2: I'm also on all the socials too as Mama.
45:06
Speaker 1: Adra, and that's Mama Mama.
45:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, mam yeah, Mama Adra. Yeah.
45:12
Speaker 1: Lovely, it was so interesting to talk to you, and
45:15
Speaker 1: thank you for the inspiration that you bring in all
45:19
Speaker 1: of this shedding and reevaluating and really becoming that true,
45:24
Speaker 1: authentic version of yourself.
45:26
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, you create this safe space
45:29
Speaker 2: to share stories.
45:30
Speaker 1: Thank you, you're so welcome. I'm glad that we had
45:33
Speaker 1: this conversation. Please keep Mama Audra in mind for yourself
45:37
Speaker 1: and others, because there's precious experience and know how with Adre.
45:43
Speaker 1: I wish you all the best in your business and
45:46
Speaker 1: all the clients you're going to help. I'm excited for
45:48
Speaker 1: them to find you.
45:49
Speaker 2: Thank you, you're so welcome. Take care.
45:53
Speaker 1: Thanks for spending this time with me on Mediumship Sparks.
45:56
Speaker 1: If this episode resonated with you, please like it, subscribe,
46:00
Speaker 1: vibe rate, and certainly share it with somebody else who
46:02
Speaker 1: could benefit. If you're interested in any support I might
46:05
Speaker 1: be able to provide as you navigate your spiritual path,
46:08
Speaker 1: please feel free to check out my offerings at Connecting
46:11
Speaker 1: with Noel dot com and reach out at Mediumshcast at
46:14
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Take good care of yourself and I'll
46:18
Speaker 1: look forward to being with you again soon