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Imposter Syndrome · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Here.
• 0:04
  Speaker B: Welcome to Gaming Going Deeper, a podcast series by the Gam's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. I am your host, Matt Lanal. I am an intuitive life and spiritual coach and counselor. I specialize in teaching people how to heal shame and trauma and embody their authentic self so they can enjoy more meaningful connections in their lives. My areas of expertise are working with highly sensitive people, empaths and gay men to develop a stronger sense of self worth. Today's topic is imposter syndrome and we are joined by Travis Holt. So good to have you here.
• 0:35
  Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me, Matt. I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too. Me too. We have good vibes and I'm looking forward to seeing what we can co create for the audience today and for ourselves. Really learning from each other and growing with each other as well. So I want to share with the audience just a little bit about you and who you are. So Travis is a medium spiritual guide and is a minister with the Metaphysical Church. He is passionate about helping others along their healing journey. Through working with spirit, Travis has learned that love is universal and all things are possible. Perfect. It's potent and simple and to the point. I love it.
• 1:15
  Speaker A: You know, I try to just get right to the meat of things sometimes. Right.
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, I dig it. I dig it. We're doing very similar work. We had a chance to have like a meet and greet together and the vibes were really, really yummy. So yeah, this is, this is good. I'm excited to be here with you today. Okay, so I want to first start off by. Well, maybe what I'll do is I'll share what we're going to be unpacking. So there's a couple terms here that I think we're going to be, we're going to be using quite a bit today and talking about. So obviously the first one is imposter syndrome. So this is seen as the persistent inability to believe that one success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one's own efforts or skills. Yeah, so it's kind of like that feeling of feeling like you're a fraud. Like that you're not. You haven't fully mastered or developed the skills yet. And usually underpinning imposter syndrome is going to be like inadequacy. So inadequacy is this feeling that we're not good enough or that we don't measure up. This can lead to feeling self doubt, which is not believing in yourself or your abilities and lastly, perfectionism. So perfectionism is a really big part, I think, of, of this journey and feeling inadequate. And I think perfectionism is the overcompensation that we use when we don't feel good enough and we don't measure up. So defined is the drive to appear, feel, or be perfect. Perfectionism in psychology is a broad personality trait characterized by a person's concern with striving for flawlessness and perfection and is accompanied by critical self evaluations and concerns regarding others evaluations. So I wanted just off the top just to, you know, just, just, just describe those because I think these are really important concepts that we're going to be really moving through today, at least definitely for me, in my experience of imposter syndrome. So, so the four questions that we're going to be unpacking together are, can you share a time when you experienced imposter syndrome? In what ways do you experience self doubt? How do you deal with feelings of inadequacy? And what have you learned that's helpful or that's helped you deal with imposter syndrome? So basically, we want to give the listener, towards the end, things that can help overcome imposter syndrome that we have come across in our own personal experiences. So, so I was thinking about what I wanted to share this morning and I was like, I, I remembered that I had written a quote probably two years ago when I was working through some imposter syndrome stuff. So I figured instead of just like coming up with something, I'm like, I just went back and found this quote and I'm like, this is perfect. So basically, here's what I wrote. So imposter syndrome is when we feel like a fraud for showing up in something that we don't feel fully feel confident at doing. We, we usually get this when we are placing high expectations on being a master at something and don't feel internally that we have mastered it yet. It can lead to the I'm not good enough story that comes from shame and inadequacy. And then we, and then we then can mask it with perfectionism. We may avoid trying new things to avoid having to experience the underlying shame or that I'm not good enough. This leads to imposter syndrome. When we push through that and try new things without feeling like we are valid or deserving of doing it, yet we experience a sense of I am invalid when we are experiencing imposter syndrome. When you clear all the peripheral stuff, it comes down to the fear of failure. We don't feel capable of handling failure because it will make us feel this impending I am not good enough or the invalid feeling that we have learned to avoid through perfectionism. Shame teaches us to rely on external validation because we don't feel good enough to validate ourselves. We get fixed on appearing like we have it, to have it together, because we don't feel like we have it together. So as long as others are reflecting back to us that we appear to have it together, it gives us a sense of confidence. Shame asks us, who the heck do you think you are? And this is the message that comes through as the inner critic in our thoughts and creates the imposter syndrome. One way out of this loop is to start validating yourself. Give yourself the space to be what you are now and what you want to become, because you deserve both. When the inner critic chimes in, recognize it and begin to offer it what it is, craving, usually a sense of safety to just be you in all expressions that you want to show up in. The other aspect of this is to make peace with your relationship with failure. Why does failure have to be so painful for us? Why do we go to such lengths to avoid it? If you give yourself space to fail, you give yourself space to experience the things you need to, to get closer to your authenticity. So I'm still navigating this, like, imposter syndrome is such a big thing, and self doubt and. And all these things. Like, it's. It's been a big part of my life growing up, and, you know, shame and inadequacy are definitely the. The underlying things. And I've been having to move through a lot of this experience. And I'm curious, like, what resonated with you out of. Out of hearing that.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: I think that whole, you know, that whole bit that you wrote, it was absolutely beautiful. And thank you so much for sharing that. It's. There's so much in there that I can identify with. And, you know, while you were talking, I was thinking, like, when was the first time I actually did experience imposter syndrome? Like, where did this come from? And, you know, I think for me, it was when I was younger and I was hiding the fact that I was gay with my parents. And that's the first time I can remember ever feeling like I wasn't being myself. I wasn't being authentic to myself. And, you know, it's so funny. I make this joke all the time. I'm like, you know, I've got this voice, I've got these hand motions. Like, there was never, like, really a time where I was like in the closet. But I was saying I was in the closet. Right. But, you know, I, in school, I never really got like great grades. I was always like a solid CD student.
• 7:19
  Speaker B: Same here.
• 7:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I was good for that D. Like, the D plus was like, it was so funny because teachers would post grades, they would post them in order of like, best to like, not so great. And so I was like, oh, I'll just go down to the D's and find my name,
• 7:37
  Speaker B: you know.
• 7:37
  Speaker A: And when I, when I got into like my working career, I was in sales and I would have these like, really amazing jobs and I'm like, how in the hell did I get here? Like, I'm not that smart. So, you know, I've had echoes of those things all throughout my life, and I can't remember a time where I didn't experience imposter syndrome at some point.
• 8:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's, it's part of the human condition because I look at imposter syndrome as, you know, kind of this, like this term that we use, but really all the terms we described, you know, that I described earlier, are the things that we're, we're actually talking about. Right. So inadequacy. I do think it's, it's a part of the human condition. I think that the I'm not good enoughness that we experience as human beings is part of the human condition. And I think we come into this life, we feel perfect, whole and complete. And that's, that's the creation, that's our birthright. And then, then through our, through the conditioning, you know, our traumas, our pain, our hurts, our suffering, we learn somewhere along the line that we're not good enough and that we don't measure up. And then we start to, you know, make all these over compensations around us, perfectionism being one of them, these sorts of things, or we go into collapse and we just feel not worthy and we start to self deprecate. And that can definitely be, be something that a lot of people do. So, yeah, I wrote this down. So guarding against imposter syndrome is not, is to not live your life to the fullest because it means you're not trying new things. If you're experiencing imposter syndrome, it means you are facing your fears and putting yourself out there. It means you have left your comfort zone, essentially. And something that I've really realized about myself in the last while is that I have guarded against imposter syndrome for a lot of my life. And it comes from a Fear of failure. And it's been. Perfectionism is what I've used to do that, and the. The guarding has kept me behind my walls, so I haven't. I haven't put myself out there. I've been wanting to sing publicly since I was a little boy, and I just. Four months ago, five months ago, now hired a vocal coach. And then just like a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, I had my first vocal. Holy crap. I got up there, and I felt the wash of all my shit. It was like, who do you think you are to be a singer? All the imposter syndrome came through, and so I'm really navigating this right now. But I've made this year my year of courage, because I really want to overcome a lot of my fears, and I want to choose courage over my comfort zone. And. But what I've realized is that over the last probably decade or two, just how limiting I was on letting myself try new things that I knew I wouldn't be great at.
• 10:34
  Speaker A: Right.
• 10:34
  Speaker B: And now I'm trying new things. And it's like, with singing, it's like, I know I have a good voice, but, like, I know I have a lot of work to do, so I'm failing, I'm missing notes, I'm off pitch, and it's making me feel like a lot of shame and inadequacy and all the feelings are coming through. But this is the growth mindset. I'm choosing to grow and move through mistakes and failures as a way to kind of get better.
• 10:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, it reminds me of something that I was listening to at the gym. So when I. When I'm at the gym, I listen to Abraham Hicks.
• 11:05
  Speaker B: That is amazing. I love that.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: Which is, like, so funny because you wouldn't think it's like gymspiration, but, like, it's like Abraham Hicks for Whitney Houston. There is, like, really nothing else that
• 11:15
  Speaker B: I'm listening to when I'm working out.
• 11:16
  Speaker A: Or Tina Turner. Tina Turner, for sure.
• 11:18
  Speaker B: Tina could. Yeah, that could be good.
• 11:20
  Speaker A: Oh, man. Man, I love that woman so much, and her story is inspiring. But another conversation for another day for sure. But, you know, I was listening to. And it's just funny how.
• 11:33
  Speaker B: How.
• 11:35
  Speaker A: How the cooperative components fall into place. Right. Like, we have this discussion to have this podcast episode and talk about it, and then ever since then, it's like the universe is like, and here's some imposter syndrome, and here's a lesson for you, and here's something really cool for you to read about it. And, you know, so it's been really cool to have those cooperative components fall into place. But I'm listening to Esther, and Esther was talking about the. The. So I just kind of like, let go and let God. With Esther Hicks. I just open up YouTube, and I'm like, whichever one pops up, that's the one I need today. And it was on imposter syndrome.
• 12:07
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 12:08
  Speaker A: And so I was like, oh, cool. Okay. So I hit play, and I start listening. And essentially, Esther summarized imposter syndrome in a way that felt so. Just vibrationally yummy for me. And it was. Imposter syndrome is when you. You have already. When your source self has expanded and you just haven't caught up to it yet.
• 12:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, I love that.
• 12:30
  Speaker A: And I was like, whoa. Because for me, it's like imposter syndrome. It's like, there's a lot of shame there. Feels like there's a lot of judgment there. Right. Because that's. That's why it comes up. Yeah. But then I hear this, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I just haven't allowed myself to catch up to it yet. Yeah. And. And for me, this past week, it's been almost like a shift like I desperately needed, because every time it pops up, I'm like, oh, I just haven't caught up to it yet. Let me just get caught up. Let me stop holding myself back.
• 13:00
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:00
  Speaker A: Which is something, looking back, I've done my entire life. But it's. It's funny, though, because my process has never really been like, think about it, ideate with it, and then, like, maybe do it. Mine has always been like, we're jumping off the cliff, and I'll think about it when I'm midair. Yeah. And in that, it's so funny, because the imposter syndrome comes later. It's like I'm midair. Then like, oh, crap, what if I don't make it to the other side? When it's like, well, too late now. Right. And then it's like this, like, agony that happens. But, yeah, that new definition has definitely turned some things around, for sure.
• 13:47
  Speaker B: I love that definition. It's funny. We're so similar. I've. I've lived by the motto since I was 15 years old. I read the book Fear the Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers. It was the very first book I ever read on in Self Help, and I've lived by that motto. And. Yes. So what happens for me? And I call that, like, a vulnerability hangover. So I jump, I take the leap, I put myself out there, I expose myself. And then afterwards is when it comes pouring in on me and I feel the vulnerability hangover, which is exactly what happened after me singing. I went into like. I didn't want to be around people. I like wanted to hide under my covers. I felt so exposed by the world and I'm just kind of coming out of it now. It's been two weeks and I'm just coming out of the vulnerability hangover and, and all the self judgment and really like picking myself apart. And it's like it was so painful. But I, I love her definition because I see what I'm doing now is. It's like my soul and my ego are having completely two different experiences of singing. And my soul is this like infinite part of who I am and it's infinite poss. And the imposter syndrome is a, is a psychological construct that is. Lives in my ego structure and it's, it's really picking me apart. And so when I, when I get up there and I sing, I'm having this like feeling of like, yes, I'm following my life path. I'm supposed to be doing this. My heart is opening and I'm, I'm pushing my comfort zone, the edge out further and further. And then what's happening is my soul is stepping into that energy but my ego and my mind self is like having a hard time. It's like putting one foot out and it's like, oh, it doesn't feel safe. Don't go any further. So I'm like in this massive inner conflict of like my. And I do believe that. I think when we make transformation happen, it's like we push out, we push ourselves out further and then what happens? We heal. We heal all the things that are kind of like holding us back or we release the, the lack or the, the sense of like not feeling safe from our body. And then our mind is like still habitual. Our mind, that's the struggle. The habits that the mind gets stuck in. And when I, when I think about like me getting in my own way, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like that the mental habits that I have where I continuously put self limiting beliefs on a tape and they just keep running in my mind and. But I do think there's a point when the mind lets go of that because I think the mind is like the last thing to transform because it is so habitual. So that's what I'm noticing and it's just, oh, my God. I'm like, when is this finally just going to push and release? Like, I'm, I'm tired of, of this, this inner conflict. It's, it's very exhausting when you croak. That's when, when I croak, right? Oh, God, please, no.
• 16:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's so funny. So, you know, I, I'm a Virgo through and through, and perfectionism is like my middle name. And it's funny being like a D D plus student. You would think that, you know, my perfectionism kicked in like a lot later in life. I was a late blooming Virgo. But, but you know, when, when I started getting into spiritual work and I decided that this was my chosen not only life path, but also career path, I was like, well, I've got to be the best. Like, so I've got to work with tutors, right? And one of, and, and mentors and teachers, which I highly recommend. Learning and expanding your education and anything, especially when you're working with the public. Right? And so I, I hired this tutor and I was so excited and I'm like, he's gonna teach me how to talk to the dead, like right away. And we're gonna dive in and I'm gonna be like Teresa Caputo walking up to people, your grandmother here in the middle of Starbucks. It's going to be amazing. And we sit down and he goes, and now he's a dear friend of mine, but he looks at me and he just goes, I'm going to teach you everything you need to know in today's session. And I was like, amazing. Thanks for paying for my buck. And he goes, you need to get out of your own way. And for six months, Matt, I had no idea what the hell that meant. And so I'm like, yeah, I'll get out of my own way. I didn't even know what it meant. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm showing up to readings in my head wondering if the person across from me is getting what they need. Yeah. If they feel the information is. And they're telling me, right, that it's valid. I'm getting great reviews. I'm getting this great following on social media. But like, in my mind it's like, no, you're really terrible at this. Yeah.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: And so, yeah, that, that I don't feel that way necessarily now. But at the time it was really tough and I. But getting out of your own way, it's so funny. It's something that I feel like you don't understand until you do. And then when you do, it's like, oh, snap.
• 18:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, I, you know, it's interesting because I have the same thing in my work, but it's, it only comes up when I'm not feeling like I'm. Sometimes I'm in the flow and I'm like, just like boom. Like nothing can interrupt that. And then I would say that's 75 of the time. 25 of the time. I'm very self doubting. I'm so for me, like I haven't fully learned how to get out of my own way yet. I still have days where I do get in my own way. So do you have any suggestions or any tips that have worked for you? And I know for, for you, you're saying it's more of an embodied state and I totally understand what that means. Like, you can't really teach it. You can transmit the presence of it and maybe that's what I'll, you know, I'm, I'm feeling that from you now. But do you, do you have anything that you could share with us from the psychological realm that might.
• 19:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I now talk to my ego like it's a separate person.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
• 19:47
  Speaker A: I think of my ego as something that's here to protect me and try to keep me safe. Almost like, like a, like a guard dog.
• 19:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I do that too.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. And so, so, you know, there was a time where like before clients, it was so funny because coming from sales, like in my background, right. Like I've got spreadsheets, I got things that are like quantifiable that I can see and I can see results and I can see progress, like right in front of me. Right. And in this work, it's totally different. You're going off a feeling, you're going off of intuition, you're going off of knowing. Right. Yeah. And so with, without having those kind of quantifiable things, only having my feelings, it's, for me, it's, you know, when I feel that kick up, I have to be conscious enough to slow myself down.
• 20:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 20:37
  Speaker A: Like if I get up in the morning or if I'm getting ready for clients and I get that like that anxiety that comes up from like, oh, I don't, I don't, I don't know what I'm going to do. Right. Or like, maybe I should just like cancel my day, just pretend I'm sick and then I'll just deal with this all later. Right. I'll have to slow myself down and check in and, and I, you know, I Think of my ego as this, like, this guard dog. Right. But then, like, I just start laughing at it. Like, I'm like, this is so silly. Why are we doing this? It's so funny now, right? Like, now it's kind of like, okay, well, you know, let's. It's okay. We're all right. Like, we're not in physical danger. Because I think that comes in when, you know, it creates this kind of sense of physical danger in our body almost. Yeah. When that. That imposter syndrome is kicking up.
• 21:25
  Speaker B: Totally.
• 21:25
  Speaker A: But there's nothing. I mean, I. I laugh. I'm like, it's not like my clients are going to, like, come through zoom and shoot me in the head. Like, it's not going to happen like that. Right? Like. Yeah. And what's the worst thing that that can happen? A client doesn't resonate with something I say and I give their money back. Oh, well, who cares? Like, literally not a big deal. So. So I have those, like, conversations with my ego, and I just treat it like it's a part of myself. Yeah. And that has helped me so much. And then sometimes just, like, making light of it, like, oh, yeah. You really think that, like, today's gonna be horrible. Okay. That's cute, right? Like, be quiet, Sit down.
• 22:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. It's. It's. Part of it is, like, like learning how to be gentle. More gentle with ourselves, and I think, not take ourselves so seriously, because the ego is that serious energy. And when we. When we enter our higher selves and we personify our. Our ego and create it as a separate sense of ourself.
• 22:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker B: We can start to, you know, be, you know, bashful and playful with it. And it's like. So. I love that. That's such a great, great tip. Yeah. Thank you.
• 22:27
  Speaker A: And. And for me, too. I think ego gets really nervous when we are in the present moment.
• 22:33
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 22:34
  Speaker A: When we're present, ego gets really nervous because that's where growth and expansion and change happens. But it's also uncertain. And our ego and our fear, like, certainty.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker A: And there's nothing certain in the present moment. And I know with. When I'm with clients and even when I meditate, I know that for that time, I'm a thousand percent present.
• 22:56
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:57
  Speaker A: And I'm. And my ego is like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What are we doing? That's a little dangerous.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: Can't we just, like, cancel the day and go, like, watch Netflix or something? Right. And it's. Yeah. And so I look at it that way as like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have a really great day because my imposter syndrome is really kicking up. It knows that something great is coming. And those are. Have truly been some of my best days with clients.
• 23:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:26
  Speaker A: And it's funny because I talked to my therapist about this and I look at him and I was like, do you, do you ever get like imposter syndrome? And he looks at me and he goes, I wake up every day thinking to myself, what do these people think having me as their therapist?
• 23:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like, it's a good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or people are paying me for my advice. Like I have those days where I'm like, yeah, right. Because we were all messy, we're all fucked up sometimes we're all in weird moods. Like this is this part of the human experience. And you know, I was kind of laughing inside when you said the ego doesn't like presence. Because that's exactly how I feel. Because the presence for me is like, it's. You're not self monitoring to make sure that you're conducting yourself in a way that everyone else will approve of. So like, you know, when I'm. Sometimes I'll have moments where I'm so present that I will like pick my nose and I'm in public and I don't realize I'm doing it or I'll fart or I'll do something that should be embarrassing. And I'm just so present with my body that I just don't care. You know what I mean? And I'm just like. And, and that scares me because it's like, especially when I'm public and I. And putting myself out there a lot, that it's like, what if I become so present that I forget to conduct myself in ways that are politically correct or, or you know, so there's that fear that it's like I have to always keep myself somewhat on and not fully let go and just become the presence that I am. Because I'm worried that, that I might not. Or it's. It's really. It stems from a fear of failure. I'm worried that I will be. That I will do something wrong or I will fail.
• 25:07
  Speaker A: It's.
• 25:07
  Speaker B: It's so crazy. It's amazing how the ego just plays all these little tricks on us, you know?
• 25:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's true. It's true. And, and like that need for approval, right? Like that, that worrying about being so present in our body that if I am present, like, what are people going to Think. Yeah. And what are they going to think about me? And then will I. Will I be rejected? Will I feel even more shame? Because I think imposter syndrome is so powerful because we've got this vibration of something that's active within us that's fearful. And then the second somebody says something that's in alignment with that fear, that validates that fear for us. Like, if somebody is like, you know what? You really are horrible at your job or horrible singer. You aren't smart. Right. It's like, it just gives validity to that feeling. Meanwhile, and it's so funny because I. I just had this thought. Yeah. Today I'm in the sauna. So I take my phone into the sauna. No one's in there. It's a very small sauna. I'm not, like, taking pictures of people or anything, but, like, I'm in there in the sauna and I'm going through, like. So it's like, my time to check my Instagram comments because I meditate at home and all that stuff. Right. And I'm. When I'm in the sauna, I'm just trying to focus on not dying.
• 26:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:27
  Speaker A: It's so, like, I'm just like, instagram comments. We'll just. We'll reply to all of those. And they're all so nice. Yeah. And I'm reading all of them, and people are like, you've made my day. You've done this and done that. And he's like, these are like, you know, they make my heart sing. But you get. I guarantee you, I get one bad comment, and that's the one I'm gonna focus on. I can have all of these amazing comments, and they're not sinking in, but that one bad one is like, I won't let it go for hours. Right? Yeah. And it's not. It's. My imposter syndrome, for me, is very much tied into a wanting of approval. And as I go along my journey, I'm finding that the less I seek understanding and approval from others, the happier I am. And. And it ties into how I receive love. Because I thought for the longest time that I couldn't receive love from people.
• 27:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: And I realized for myself, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's not true. I can absolutely receive love. I'm just not focused on that. I'm. I'm focused on understanding and approval.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 27:40
  Speaker A: And so I'm looking for something that probably isn't going to be there, and if it is, I don't really need it. Yeah. But love and connection, I can have those things without approval or understanding from other people.
• 27:54
  Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. And I think that can stem from attachment trauma. Like, if we. If we confused love and approval from our caregivers or our caregivers can confuse love and approval for us, that can really create that dynamic. So it's like our parents didn't learn how to unconditionally love us, but they, you know, they made us work for it. So it's like, if you do this, I will show you that I love you. That's approval. That's not love. That's approval. And we get really thirsty for that. And then we start to learn that that's how we have to negotiate with our. Within our relationships to get our need, feeling, loved, met. But it's never satiating. It's a bottomless pit that will never be filled up. Because you can't fill your need for love with approval. It won't work. Right. Approval is more of a structure of the ego, I find, and it makes the ego feel good. And I think love is a structure of the soul. It makes the soul feel good. And so I'm still. I'm still making this transformation. Actually, believe it or not, right now, like, I'm. I'm learning how to open my heart back up after, you know, just significant trauma that I went through as a child related to my attachment. And I shut down. I shut down my heart and I. To keep me safe. And it was very. It was a. It was an adaptive thing that I did because I needed to do it to keep myself safe. But it's not serving me anymore. And I'm learning now how to open my heart back up. And I'm meeting a very, very strong fear right now in my life, like a very strong fear of intimacy, a very strong fear of vulnerability. And I. Like, when I open my heart, I feel, like, so exposed to potential hurt, to judgment, to criticism, to all these things. But I'm like, I need to move through this. I need to move through this so I can feel love again. I really want to feel that again because I don't really. I don't let it in. I don't. I'm not good at receiving love right now. Like, it's. It's such a. An interesting thing. So.
• 29:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I feel you. I've just started. I've just started dating again after taking, like, a year.
• 29:53
  Speaker B: How's that going? Yeah.
• 29:55
  Speaker A: Oh, Matt.
• 29:59
  Speaker B: I got my own stories. Trust me, it ain't pleasant.
• 30:01
  Speaker A: You know, here's the thing, every time I go on a date or I meet someone that it just. It's not quite there. I know I'm getting closer like that. I can say for sure. Like, I don't know who this man is yet that I'm gonna be dating, but I know he's close.
• 30:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Speaker A: But it's interesting because the way that this has kind of worked for me is an imposter syndrome especially. Right. Because I think sometimes I show up in my friendships. I'm like, what are these? Why are they friends with me? And.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: Because you're beautiful.
• 30:38
  Speaker A: Thank you. I'll be here all day. Just keep giving me comments. No, and actually, it's so funny because one of my. One of my very dearest friends, I actually married him and his husband, they. He was actually the one that turned me on to gay men going deeper and how I kind of discovered, you know, you wonderful souls. And it was so funny because, like, I had never had solid friendships like this. And I'm showing up in this friendship, and, you know, it's so funny because I would be in this friendship, and I'm like, why do all of these people like me? Me? I'm not that great of a person. Like. And when I met them, my life was, like, totally different. It was. It was vastly different. And. And it's so funny, though, with imposter syndrome, because it's kind of like I've. You know, I work through that in friendships and then in my career, and now it's like, next level relationships and love. Yeah. In romantic love. And so I'm there with romantic love and dating, whereas, like, I feel like I've kind of just gotten out of that in my career or gotten out of the. Well, I won't say out, but I've gotten to a solid place now with where I'm at. I'm sure there will be more expansion and more growth, and I'll be, you know, back in the place of asking again, but in my career. But for now, I feel like I'm in a solid place there. So now it's like dating in love. And so that's been interesting. Going on dates with people and having that old. That old imposter syndrome. Fear kind of creep back up. I'm like, oh, you know, it's. It's. It's been. It's been wild. But in my friendships, that's been, like, the most healing. It's like, you know, I have this great group of friends, and I love them all so much, and. And I think there's still days where I'm like, maybe they don't want to be my friend. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But they, you know, they really taught me the value of friendship and how powerful that can be to shift things in your life.
• 32:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, tremendously, Tremendously. This is the power of the brotherhood too. Like, we, It's. It's a platonic community that if it leads to romantic, great, but it's not. That's not why people come in and we are realizing how important it is to have friendships with other gay men and how that. How healing that is. Right. Like, so it's, it's important. I want to comment on what you said about relationships, because I think that's so important. And, And I think a lot of people suck at relationships, romantic relationships. We don't. We don't learn it. It's not a skill we learn. It's a learn we. Or it's a learn. It's a skill we. We see maybe in our parents or caregivers or whatever, and then we kind of mimic that. But a lot of us struggle in this area, and we are all kind of technically imposters when it comes to being in relationships because we're learning as we go, and, and it's. It's okay to give ourselves space to be that. Like, I'm not good, very good in relationships. Like, I. They get messy for me, and I, you know, make mistakes and I get scared and all of these things. So it's like part of my healing has been giving myself space to just be that. But the key. The key for me in moving through imposter syndrome in relationships is to communicate everything I'm feeling. If I'm terrified, I need to talk to my. The person I'm dating about that and just bring everything onto the table. Because what ends up happening is the imposter syndrome gets to become. And it turns into anxiety for me, and then I end up playing that out in dynamic as opposed to talking it out. And when we play out or act out our shit in relationships, that's when it leads to drama and games and all sorts of messiness. So we can make. We can make it less messy by just talking about it and bringing very authentic truth to, like, what it is that we're experiencing. I think that's. That's really important.
• 34:35
  Speaker A: What's been your experience with sharing big emotions like that with dating?
• 34:40
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. This is a very loaded question. But I would say I'm a. I'm a very emotionally intelligent man. I've done a lot of deep work to get to this point. And what I notice is that in the gay community, a lot of gay men have significant trauma and shame, which I talk about this almost on every episode. And. And I see a very poor emotional intelligence quotient in our community. Like, there's just not. It's. It's not high. Right. And I think a lot of. A lot of gay men need to do a lot of deep work to do some healing so they can open their hearts just like what I'm doing. And so when I always say that you can only hold space for somebody's emotional displays as deep as you've held space for yourself emotionally, so it's. It just doesn't work. And the same for love. You can only love someone as deep as you've learned to love or that you felt love within yourself. So when somebody can't hold space for my emotions, I used to take it personally and think there was something wrong with me. But now I just remind myself that this person hasn't yet mastered the depth that. That I currently am meeting them at.
• 35:47
  Speaker A: Right.
• 35:48
  Speaker B: So I've reframed that. But, yeah, it's been challenging for me. What about for you?
• 35:53
  Speaker A: It's been interesting. So I grew up and I was told for the longest time that I was too sensitive. And so that has added into, like, feelings of inadequacy is feeling like, well, I'm just too sensitive. And, you know, and that's like, that's a defect. But what I've reframed for myself is I'm actually not too sensitive. I don't believe anybody is too sensitive. I think that there are people who are just in tune with energy and in tune with how they feel. Whether they know how to regulate that or not is a different thing. But I don't think that that's deserving of calling someone too sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. I believe that it's just being in tune with energy and how you feel. And then there are people who just aren't.
• 36:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:38
  Speaker A: And I don't think it's good nor bad. I think it is what it is. Yeah. But me and dating, I will go on these dates, and it's so funny. I'm like, I'm not the. Let's go on a date and tell me about your favorite color and tell me about your favorite. I love. I love talking about those things. Don't get me wrong. Like, you know, but I'm like, you know, if we could just, like, unpack some trauma here on the first amazing Tell me why you. I like knowing why people are the way they are. And I like getting to know people's energy.
• 37:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, ditto.
• 37:08
  Speaker A: I like to see how people, you know, light up when they talk about. Because you can tell when somebody's just giving you surface conversation versus they're talking about something that they just really, really love and they're excited about. And, you know, I get so bored with, like, conversation, ping pong balling, where it's just, you know, so I. On the flip side, though, it's so funny because I think doing this work, and maybe you can identify with this doing this work, it's like, I won't say anyone has red flags, because we all have red flags. Every single one of us. Yeah, we're all a little toxic. Yeah, we're all wonderful. But we're all messy things, right? We're all a little messy. That's all right. We, you know, spirit is all of the above, not just the higher vibrational stuff. Right, Totally. So. But there are times where I go on dates from, like, oh, that's just. That ain't healed yet. That ain't healed. Or that is still a wound that we haven't even begun to address. And so it can be tough because it's like I'm at this place now where I'm like, I want a partner. I used to so be like, the. In the, like, that I'm gonna fix you and heal you relationships. And I just. I have zero interest in that now.
• 38:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too.
• 38:26
  Speaker A: And when I go on dates, I pay attention to. Do I feel safe around you?
• 38:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's.
• 38:32
  Speaker A: Do I feel calm? I used to get this, like, feeling of, like, one of my most favorite shows, Crazy Ex Girlfriend. Brilliant show, but one of the characters described when she would meet people as glitter exploding inside of her. And so I was like, oh, my God, that's how love feels. But for me, I learned actually, like, that's not great, because if I feel that, then, like, I want you to approve of me. Yeah. And then I'm just gonna be trying to hustle to get you to approve of me because I feel inadequate to be sitting in front of you. Yeah. And that's not a relationship I want to partake in either, because I've been in those relationships, and they've been incredibly harmful to me.
• 39:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too.
• 39:13
  Speaker A: So in a very long way of answering your question, you know, dating's been interesting. It's been the learning, for sure.
• 39:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:20
  Speaker A: You know, and I'm just like, you know what those cooperative components are going to fall into place when they fall into place.
• 39:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
• 39:29
  Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, there's a. There's a lot of unhealed. Unhealed things happening out there in the world.
• 39:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's tough being, you know, being a sensitive, empathic person, like, because I feel that, and it's exhausting sometimes. And I'm like, sometimes I don't want to. Sometimes I just want to go on a date, and I don't want to be feeling all the. That they've experienced and all their stuff. And, you know, so I'm like, I'm learning how to just stay more in my own center. And, like, you know, I command my energy back to me. Like, I don't want to be going and siphoning in somebody's, you know, field. So that's helping. But, you know, it's interesting you talk about sensitivity, because I do a lot of work in this space, and I would say sensitivity is the top. One of the top three qualities that I look for in a partner, because I think it's a beautiful quality, and it's a. It's a gift. It's a gift. But I do think sensitive people have a very, like, a depth about them because they are so sensitive, and they're picking up on what's around them. And a lot of people who are sensitive are very highly attuned to the people around them. And I want a partner who's highly attuned to me. I want him to, like, I want us to wake up in the morning and him to be like, yeah, like, I could feel the dreams you were having last night. I energetically feel like that's the type of relationship I'd, like, be ship. I want. I can. I offer that gift to my partners, and I always have, But I've never dated somebody where I got that back. And I'm like, I'm craving to be highly attuned to because that's such a beautiful, beautiful thing that we can offer somebody.
• 40:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, me too. I'm so ready for that.
• 40:59
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 41:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. And it's gonna be amazing when it happens.
• 41:03
  Speaker B: I know me. I can't wait.
• 41:05
  Speaker A: I can't wait one day.
• 41:07
  Speaker B: I. I agree with you in the sense of being a late bloomer. I'm a late bloomer. And I have been most of my life in all areas, like going through pubert puberty. Yeah. All of these things. And I think my relationship life, I actually think, like, I'm 37 right now. I think my. The second half of my life is going to be the best years of my life. Like, I think the first half was very, very hard and challenging and a lot of suffering, and I've had to undo all of all stuff, and I've had to, you know, work on a lot of karmic things in my life. This soul, my soul chose a very, very challenging path. But I think now I've done a lot of this clearing and I think now I'm moving towards more ease. And I think my. Yeah, I do. I do think, like my soulmate relationship or the person I'm meant to spend my life with is. Is coming and I'm gonna have like a beautiful relationship soon. So I'm excited for that.
• 41:56
  Speaker A: Yay.
• 41:57
  Speaker B: Yay to that. Yes. Okay, so I'm curious about in which ways do you experience self doubt?
• 42:09
  Speaker A: How much time do we have? No, you know what? I do because it's so, like a part of my programming that I'm working actively through. Working through. But it's so funny because there's like, there's these, like, two very different sides to me. And one is definitely ego, one is definitely my spirit where there's like the side of me that's like, oh, my gosh, I'm so great. I love my life. Everything is wonderful. I can do this. And then there's the part of me that's like, that just is like, you know what? Let's just stay in bed for like another three days and just, you know, and it's so funny because it's like, it's. It. It's getting the point now where I'm deeper in my healing practice, deeper in my meditation. Like, I can almost. I can tell the energy that I'm working with. Yeah. You know, I experienced self doubt. It's kind of trickled in through almost everything. But at the same time, I also. But it's so funny because of like, you know, just the law of polarity. And because one thing exists, the other has to exist and it has to just hit my head. Has to exist at the exact same time. I get very excited when I talk about this, but it has to exist with the exact same intensity. Right. And so I know that if there's that doubt, there's also belief.
• 43:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:33
  Speaker A: And my therapist has reframed doubt for me as well as a blessing. And when he told me that, I was like, I think I need you to. I think I need a new therapist. Yeah. And he was like, no. But he was like, think about it. Every time you go through a period of self doubt, do you Believe in yourself more after you've worked through it. I'm like, absolutely. And then it's almost like I just don't doubt myself again in that.
• 43:57
  Speaker B: Wow. Yeah.
• 43:58
  Speaker A: And he was like perfect. And he was like, how much? But then he, he, we. He talked about trusting myself.
• 44:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:05
  Speaker A: And he was like, how often do you tell yourself that you trust yourself? And I was like, well, like never. Yeah. And I'll think about like I'm at the gym and I think about this the most when I'm at the gym, probably because I'm just. My head is clear and I'm just trying to focus on not dying. So like all resistance is kind of out of the way. But I'll be lifting something really heavy and I'll be like, oh my God, can I do this? And then it's almost like it kicks in my brain where it's like, yeah, like you trust yourself. You're gonna. If, like you're gonna be all right. You got this. You just keep going. And. And yeah. So I experienced a lot of self doubt, but I also experienced a lot of self belief at the same time. What about you?
• 44:47
  Speaker B: Oh, you hit the nail on the head. I love what you just shared, the word trusting. So I have this thing, and I was actually saying this to you right before we came on air, is that I. I'm pretty sure I have undiagnosed 80 add, probably more the inattentive aspect versus the hyperactive. But I do see hyperactivity as a part of my, my structure as well, but the inattentive part. So I almost kind of. Sometimes when I'm, when I am like sharing, I'll have, I'll be flooded with all of these ideas and all this stuff will come in at once and then I get derailed. So I lose. I literally lose my train of. That is like this part of me that I have a lot of self doubt because it's happened and it's happened in public settings before. If I'm public speaking and I completely forget what I'm saying because I'll think about something and then that'll lead to something. And then my mind, it's like my mind is working faster than I can actually process. And I think this is part of being adhd, neurodivergent, sensory processing, sensitivity, whatever you want to call it. I'm not a huge fan of all these labels. I just know that I have a very highly active mind and I have a lot of nervous energy in my body. So I do have a sense that this is A big self doubt of mine is it's like. And one of the reasons why I haven't put myself out there a lot in public settings. Like I know I am quite public in these settings but I mean more like getting up on a stage and speaking because I do have a fear that I'm going to get up there and I'm going to be so overwhelmed and I'm going to have all these thoughts race in and I'm going to lose my, my focus. So believe it or not, the singing is helping me with this because I've been getting up and singing and, and I've. I. At my first open mic I forgot one of my lines and I didn't let it derail me. I just kind of laughed it off and I moved on to the next line and it was fine like. But I did beat myself up after, I will say. But then I've kind of moved through it and I'm like, you know what? I need to learn how to be more playful and fun and just let loose. You know what I mean? And if I up I up, if I forget my line, I laugh at myself. And I think this is what I'm learning now. Is this more kind of being more playful and gentle with myself. Like and just being okay with that. Being okay with that. I'm gonna mess up in front of people. It's gonna be part of, part of life and that's the messy aspect of it. So I'm really. That's an area where I have a lot of self doubt right now and I'm like kind of working through that. The other area would be about leadership, you know, and, and leading this community is one of them. And leading my other community with, with inspired to be authentic. And yeah, I have days where I'm like man, like I'm a leader. Like really like I'm still figuring myself out and all this stuff and there's some self doubt in that arena too. And again it's, it comes down to like I like don't put so much pressure on myself. I don't have to have all the answers and people actually hire me and work with me because I don't have all the answers and because I'm vulnerable and I share my messiness with the world because people aren't, they don't gravitate. Well I shouldn't say that a lot of people don't gravitate towards perfectionism because it makes them feel inadequate. People gravitate towards vulnerability and like, like people that are just being really Authentic and, and truthful about their experience. And that's kind of how I built my business. Right. But I have days where I forget that, that it's like I don't actually have to be perfect. I can just be like, silly and, and mess up and these things. And so I'm learning how to give myself more grace in this area. But I'm still, I still have a lot of room for, for growth in this space. Yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker A: Yeah. I started asking myself, it's just so funny. I started asking myself, like, when I get those feelings, like, I should be like some type of caliber or some type of level. I'm, you know, I'll be like, well, who said that we had. Who said. Yeah, like, literally, who said we had to do that? And it's so funny because it almost just kind of like interrupts that, that momentum of that thought pattern for me and because I feel like my mind is just always going and I think that's a part of chant. Like, honestly, I thought like for a while I was like, maybe that's just like, you know, my brain not working right. I mean, God, who knows if it is? But so, you know, like a 8 pound electric meatloaf, like, that thing can't work. Right. All the time.
• 48:51
  Speaker B: Right.
• 48:52
  Speaker A: And so spirit is divine. This body is from wish. That's all I'm saying. So, so, you know, but I'm like thinking to myself, I'm like, well, maybe it's a part of like just the work that I do. Right? Connecting into energy, channeling, mediumship. Like, maybe my brain isn't supposed to slow down. Yeah. Like, and who said it had to? Yeah, for me. And, and I like that. Yeah. And I'm like, but like, it's like that or like other things, right? Like, you know, I'm not, you know, of course I go to the gym, I care about my body. And there was a long time where I was like, oh my God, my body has to look like this, right. Or my mediumship has to look like this. And it's like, well, who the said it had to? Yeah, like who? Like me, that's actually. But me, like, not, not the world. Right. Because we look at things and we compare ourselves against other people.
• 49:49
  Speaker B: Totally. Yeah.
• 49:49
  Speaker A: And the funny thing is those people feel the exact same way. Like, that's like the whole joke is like, you see these people that you look up to and admire, but like, they have imposter syndrome too.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: Or they're comparing themselves against someone else and that's like, that's like the joke of all of it is that we're all here looking at each other, being like, I wish I was like that, wish I was like that. And that person's looking at someone going, I wish I was like that. I wish I was like that.
• 50:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 50:14
  Speaker A: And it just becomes this like never ending shame cyclone spiral of shit. That's just like. But like, that's the joke. And that's why I think the universe has a sense of humor.
• 50:28
  Speaker B: I agree. I agree. My guides have a sense of humor too. They always play these little tricks on me that like.
• 50:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 50:34
  Speaker B: You know, and it's just. It's so funny. I swear. I have a guide that's a prankster and just always playing these little tricks on me. And it's like my ego absolutely hates it, but my soul kind of sees the humor in it.
• 50:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
• 50:49
  Speaker B: Okay, so the next question we have here is how do you deal with feelings of inadequacy? I just want to share a little bit about this because I think this is a very big problem in, in our community and a lot of people don't realize it. So when we have shame, shame is kind. The mantra of shame is some. There's something wrong with me. We grow up feeling different. We're gay. People shame us for being gay and we start to internalize this message that there's something wrong. And then after something's wrong, it comes. We come into inadequacy, which is the mantra would be, I'm not good enough. I don't measure up.
• 51:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 51:19
  Speaker B: So I do see a lot of inadequacy in our community. And I see gay men. The stereotype of gay men is. And everybody always says this, that, you know, heterosexual people always say, you know, you know, gay men are always so hot and so put together and their hair's so nice and their homes are so nice. And I think this is where it stems from. It stems from this shame. The shame and the I'm not good enough. And. Right. So we want to make sure that we overcompensate and we appear to be good enough, which perfectionism. And not in all cases. I'm not saying because you look good means that you have this issue, but I'm saying this is a stereotype that I see in the community and there's some truth to it. So I really want to highlight that because I don't think a lot of people realize where the inadequacy comes from. I think a lot of us feel like I'm not good enough, but we don't we're not quite sure where it comes from and how to deal with these feelings when they do arise. So I'm curious for you, how do you deal with inadequacy?
• 52:13
  Speaker A: Oh, such a big question.
• 52:16
  Speaker B: I know, I know.
• 52:17
  Speaker A: It's a big one. But you know what? I. The. It's. It's. Again, it's funny over the past couple months, especially, you know, when you are on social media and people say things to you that don't feel good. Yeah. That resonate with things, that. Feelings that you have. Right. Like growing up. Growing up, I was told. And this was just my parents fear and. But they, you know, they. I remember being told that, you know, no one would love me if I was gay. No one would love me if I was over because I was like, a little. Little, you know, I had, like, some extra weight on me as a kid. I didn't know this was a problem until one of my parents told me it was a problem. And kids would make fun of my voice. Kids would make fun of just, like, anything that they could make fun of me for. Right.
• 53:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 53:14
  Speaker A: But it's so funny because, like, I'll see things now on, like, social media and stuff. And now I'm at this point where I'm like, well, you can't say anything that, like, hasn't said to me, been said to me before, or you can't say anything worse than I've already said to myself.
• 53:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 53:25
  Speaker A: But when I had that realization of you can't say anything worse to me than I've said to myself, I was like, oh, ouch.
• 53:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 53:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Right. And so with inadequacy, it's reminding myself of, like, okay, well, what am I measuring myself up against? Like, and who said that, you know, that. That this wasn't good enough? And for me, it's like, just kind of going through, like, the. Okay, did I show up as myself? That's. To me, that's the most important thing. Am I showing up as myself? Yeah.
• 53:58
  Speaker B: Being authentic? Exactly. Exactly.
• 53:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. Am I. Am I saying things that feel good? Like, there'll be times where I do podcast interviews or I'll make a video or something. Like, oh, man, I wish I would have said this. And I'm like, you know what, though? But that's what I needed to say. That's what had to come through. That was the message that had to be shared. Yeah. Or I was. It was just how I had to say it. Right. Or, you know, if. If something doesn't perform the way I want it to and you Know, before I just kind of get really, you know, know, beat up or beat myself up over it. And, and now it's just like. Well, that's just, that's, that's, that's what it is. Yeah. So for me, it's really. Stop looking at where, where I didn't measure up or where did. Or hyper focusing on the. What I did wrong. Because it's that perfectionism, Right? Yeah. Instead of focus and instead of just started shifting my focus to, you know, what felt really good about it? What I like.
• 54:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 54:49
  Speaker A: What did I like about it? Did I feel good about it? Where do I feel like I want to grow? And that's been a big help for me and it is a help for me when I'm, when that those inadequacy feelings kind of pop up.
• 55:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 55:06
  Speaker A: And it's, you know, it's just that taking myself out of that momentum when I can.
• 55:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 55:15
  Speaker A: What about for you?
• 55:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's smart.
• 55:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 55:19
  Speaker B: I just want to, I want to share on something that you had stimulated with the, the criticisms. And like, even, like, you know, in the sauna, you get the one message and you focus on that. It's so interesting because I see that as like, you'll, you'll, you know, where you're at in your relationship with yourself when people start criticizing you. And for me, it was so painful and it was, it was really highlighting to me. Like, you know, whenever there's, Whenever I'm emotionally activated by someone's rude comment, and I get them quite often, actually, I've. Across my channels and, and it really. I know that it's something that I need to learn to love about myself because otherwise there wouldn't be an emotional reaction. Right. And so I look at, I look at those sorts of attacks as like an opportunity to love myself. And before, I used to defend and get into this really angry energy, and now I just hold my hand over my heart and I'll be like, you know, why am I feeling like this? What. What is this person, this person's giving me a gift to love myself more. Right. They think they're going to tear down, but really they're building me up.
• 56:18
  Speaker A: Right.
• 56:18
  Speaker B: And I've had to reframe that. So it's been really powerful. And I love that you're doing the same because people can be so mean. And I, you know, YouTube is the worst out of them all. YouTube is by far the worst. And there's so many trolls hiding behind, like, you know, like, blank profiles and just being so mean. And it's like. But again, you can use it as. As opportunity to grow, in my opinion, so.
• 56:41
  Speaker A: And they're wounded. And I think that's another thing for me, too, where it's like, you know, happy people don't attack people on the Internet.
• 56:47
  Speaker B: That. Exactly. Yeah. So.
• 56:49
  Speaker A: And I've never. And never in my life, no matter how miserable I have been, I've been to some pretty low places. I have never gone out of my way to attack someone on the Internet.
• 57:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Me neither.
• 57:02
  Speaker A: And I just think I'm like, God, if I felt that shitty and I still didn't attack someone, imagine how shitty they feel.
• 57:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 57:12
  Speaker A: And I'm with you. I think it only hurts when there is something that's active within me that I need to sit with.
• 57:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 57:21
  Speaker A: And integrate and embrace and bring home. Yeah. And I think for me, it's like that inadequacy was its strongest when I was refusing to integrate the parts of me that I had a lot of shame around. Over the summer, I had a. You know, there was. I always say, it's so funny. It's like, I don't spent so much time healing my inner child. Now it's time to heal my inner child. Teenager. And in, you know, in my early 20s or late teens, early 20s, I left home and I worked in a nightclub. And I. I had to do some things to survive that. That I hadn't really put a lot of thought into until just within the past year or two. Yeah. And all of that kind of came up where it was like the, you know, I lived in fight or flight for so long, and I lived in this kind of just survival mode for so long after that, where it's like, when I did finally have a chance to, like, breathe and like, I've got a safe space. I've got this loving group of friends. I've got. Things are great with my family. And then it was like, okay, I'm safe. And then it's like, great, now here's all the things we get to process now that you're safe. Right. And it's like. And I got, you know, I got. I quit drinking all that other jazz. And then it was like, all right, wonderful. Now that you're conscious, here's the things. Enjoy. Have fun.
• 58:51
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 58:52
  Speaker A: And one of the things was something that I, you know, that I had to do to survive when I was in my late teens, and. And a joke was made about it. And it was so funny because at the time I was so mad, and it was like, how dare you tease Me for that or whatever. Right. But I could not be more grateful for that moment because that was a piece that I so desperately needed to sit with and find acceptance around. Yeah. And I think that's one of the best gifts I think, that someone can give when they're making fun of you. Like I mentioned being made fun of terribly for my voice. Like, awful kids were just terrible. And I also wanted to be like, the next Britney Spears. So I wanted to be a pop
• 59:39
  Speaker B: star when I was growing up.
• 59:40
  Speaker A: And I still love to sing and I love to go to karaoke. And if we ever meet, we're going to karaoke. I've already decided.
• 59:46
  Speaker B: Heck yes.
• 59:48
  Speaker A: Meet in real life, I should say. Anyway, so. But now it's so funny because now I'll get. The most comments I get are about my voice and how soothing it is for people and how my messages or the messages that I receive and share have helped shift people. And it's so funny because, like, this thing about me that, like, I disowned because other people told me I needed to disown it or not like it or be ashamed of it. Yeah. Was really just a way I thought I was being called out and really I was being called in. Yeah. And that was just an awareness for me to find love and appreciation around those things.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker A: And. And it's so funny because now that I. Now that I do, I do that practice and I integrate those things and I feel that pain or I feel like I'm being poked fun at or those things hurt. I don't take it as personal anymore. You know? And it doesn't hurt as bad.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker A: And it feels kind of good.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. It's a testament to your work. Yeah. That's amazing. It's amazing. Okay. I'll share a little bit about my. How I deal with inadequacy. This has been a big one for me. And I will say I want to validate what you said, actually, because what I've been going through is healing my perfectionism. And I, I. You know, when you find safety, you have to meet all the parts that you. You've pushed down and that you haven't. We weren't willing to face. I really think that healing is built on a foundation of two things. Safety and presence. And you need those two things. So I had presence, but I wasn't. I didn't have a sense of safety to meet these parts. And now I've done a lot of deep work, and now I have a lot more safety, and I'm Meeting all of the things that were making me use perfectionism as a, as a compensation.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker B: So I'm having to meet inadequacy. I'm meeting a lot of inadequacy and self doubt in my life right now. And it's really, really heav heavy. But I know, I know that I've done enough work and I'm strong enough to continue to heal this and move through this. And I feel validated in your share in the sense that I have established a lot of safety, I've healed a lot of trauma. And when you heal trauma, you meet safety.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker B: So I have the safety inside me and the presence to be able to fully, you know, now tolerate inadequacy and shame and these things as opposed to just bypass them. So the first few points I have here, when I say, how do you deal with feelings of inadequacy? I actually wrote down some maladaptive things that I, that I still, that I still do or still working my way away from. Because I don't want this to be like, oh, I've got it all figured out. I'm going to share all my wonderful tips with you. Yeah, I want people to know I'm human and I'm still navigating this. And so I, I eat and I scroll on my phone. So when I feel inadequate, I'm like, I want to escape it. So I'll go to food or I'll go to my phone and I'll just start scrolling as a way to avoid having to be with the feeling that I'm not good enough enough. And usually what I meet is people who are presenting all their amazing parts on Instagram and it makes me feel even shittier about myself. So, like, that's usually not the best perfectionism is, is one that I'll that I still use once in a while, cleaning and organizing. So it's funny, like I know something's wrong when I can't sit still and I'm having to organize and clean my whole house. It means I don't want to be with myself, myself. So I'm choosing to do stuff to distract myself. And then this is a really big one that I've had to really notice is I fight with people in my mind and overcompensate with superiority. So this is an ego mechanism that has been employed throughout my life that it's like when I'm not feeling good enough or I'm feeling inferior, I will play out tapes in my mind to project that I'm superior. So I'll Fight with people. I'll like, you know, pretend that people are attacking me and making me feel not inferior. And then I'll. I'll go on defense. And it's like this, this really sick, twisted thing. But it's like again, I have so. I have so much awareness now that I'm like, I just observe it and I'm like, holy crap. Like, my ego is doing exactly what you said. It's trying so hard to keep me safe. But in actuality it's not. It's perpetuating the story that I'm not safe. And I. The safety is actually in just being there for myself and holding myself through these feelings and moving towards them. And I think, think that's now I'm going to start moving into some of the things that I've been like, learning and doing to help. And that's the first one is to sit with all these feelings, be with the inadequacy. What is it trying to teach me? Get curious. Right. There's always wisdom and usually an unmet need in every emotion. And when we choose to sit with it, we'll always be privy to what that unmet need is. And then we can take that data and we can start to get that need met in a healthy way. And that's how we start to heal and move towards, you know, emotional tolerance and being with some of these heavier, more dense emotions. Yeah, I remind myself that it's okay to feel inadequate and it's part of the human experience because this is. This is just something that we all have to face in life and trying to run from it makes it, you know, whenever we resist something, it just continues to persist. So I've been like, trying to just say, it's okay. It's okay to have these feelings. It's okay to be comparing myself to all these amazing singers around me. And I'm still the newbie. This isn't okay. I'm okay to be where I'm okay at. It's been really helpful. I revert back to doing things that I feel masterful at. And I think sometimes it's like when we leave our comfort zone, we spend too much time in the outside zone and it becomes too much and we don't feel safe anymore. And it's okay to retreat back into comfort zone and start doing things that you feel masterful at. And like, I think that's part of, you know, self efficacy and confidence. It's like we step out, we try new things. They feel, oh, it feels a little bit uneasy. And then we can resort back into another zone in our life where we have more confidence and then that will help boost the confidence in the other areas. So I don't see confidence as this like overarching thing. I see this as like, I can be confident in this area and I can be not as confident in this area. It's very like malleable and like fluid as opposed to like static, you know. And that's also giving myself grace is knowing that confidence is something that moves and shapes with the day and with the mood and with all the things that are never static in, in the human experience. Right. And then the last point I have here is every feeling of inadequacy we feel is an opportunity to love ourselves. So I've been trying my best to like be with that wisdom and like, but the only way that I can do that is when I choose to sit with it.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker B: If I keep running from it and I use all my defense mechanisms, I'm not getting the opportunity to transform that inadequacy into love.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker A: Love. Right.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker B: So yeah, those are some of the things that I've kind of met and I'm still working on in a very big way.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker A: So you mentioned food as a part of like soothing is something that you reach for. Yeah, same here. I need to know what's your go to like shame food.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker B: Oh, I have a lot of food allergies so I have to be really careful because then I'll feel like crap after. But I've been eating like these gluten free brownies with like coconut ice cream. So like anything sweet. I'm a very sweet kind of guy. I went on a s' more binge for a while. Ice cream.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker A: Do you want to go on a shame spiral together?
• 1:07:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker A: That sounds really fun. No, same. You know what? Food. So for a while it was sex.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker A: Sex was like a big one for me. Reaching when I needed soothing or when I didn't want to sit with big feelings.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker A: And food now, now it's food. It used to be booze, booze, then it was sex and now it's just now it's food. And yeah, I feel that on the. It's funny because it's like shame. It's like this bottomless pit.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker A: And I'm literally trying to fill it with burgers.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker B: Totally. Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker A: I. I found a new definition for self love for myself.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker B: Share, please.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker A: Thought for the longest time time self love was like chocolate and bubble baths. Not literally or like an Amazon shopping spree or like, you know, and I think those things are great. Like, I still think those things are fine as a method of enjoyment.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker A: For me, self love has been not reaching for the food, not over stimulating. Caffeine was another one that I would just. I would throw in there just to not feel anything with giving all the. All the caffeine. But it's just been holding space for myself. Yeah. And just like the other night, it's so funny because it's like there I will feel like these pockets of emotion just come up. And for me it's. For a while it was rage. And now we're getting down into like, sadness. Yeah. Which for me feels better because I feel like, you know, it's like. It's like a layered cake. Right. And I'm like, excited that we're down to sadness. So, like, we're moving through. Through it. Yeah. But it's so funny. Like, the other day I was like meditating and I just felt this, like, sadness just like come up and I was like. And normally it'd be like, okay, we're done meditating. I'm gonna go go to the gym. I'm gonna eat something. You probably eat something. And then. Or like get a coffee. And just sitting there and like, just crying. And then I was like, okay, we're done here. This is great. I cried this perfect. I go to Target. Target. I started crying again in the middle of Target. Oh, but it was so nice. And it was nice, like, not judging myself. And I remember. So I'm practicing vulnerability and authenticity with my friends because, like, that's a place where I don't feel like. I don't feel like there's anywhere in my life where I have to show up and be a different version of myself. But like my friend group, I feel extremely safe to be myself. And I remember, like telling them we do Sunday family dinners every Sunday day. And I remember telling. I'm like, I was in Target and I cried this week. Like, I was so excited. And they were like, are you all right? And I was like, oh, my God, I'm great. I cried in the middle of a Target.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker A: But, yeah, for me, that's been self love is just allowing me to just where wherever I'm at, that's. That's where I am. Yeah. And not seeking that external thing. Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker A: It's not perfect. I still listen. I will still order a burger. Trust and believe. Yeah.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker B: And I'll also cry.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker A: Part of it.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's part of it. It's like showing up for Yourself. I think there's. There's levels, right? It's like showing up for yourself can be getting a burger, getting a massage. I really do believe that. But I would say the second level, and we need to move through levels if we want to grow. The second level is like, I'm going to be there for myself emotionally. So it's one thing to be there for yourself physically and get yourself food and all these things and meet these needs.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker A: Needs.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker B: But okay, the. There's an emotional need that needs to be met too. So it's like moving through those layers. And it's interesting how you bring up rage because I see this as such a big thing. And a lot of the work that I do with gay men, I see so much rage in the work that I do with gay men. And always underlying it is a deep sense of grief, despair, disappointment. And it's usually related to feeling so angry and rageful that I couldn't be my authentic self, that I had to spend most of my life hiding who I authentically was. And I'm pissed. I'm pissed at the world. I'm pissed at myself for buying into this and then not sharing my authentic self with the world. And that's what I see the rage really connected to for a lot of gay men. And the rage will only dissipate when we start to liberate ourselves from the confines that we've created that says I can't be my authentic self and it's not safe to be my authentic self. And. And that's when we meet sadness.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker A: Right?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker B: So when I see gay men in sadness, I mean, like, man, you've done a lot of work on yourself. If you've, if you've met sadness, you've done a lot of work on yourself. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And that's why I do this work. That's why I do this work. Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. On the note of rage, it's. It was interesting. I. I'd never sat with my rage, and I had this energy healing session and. Or this energy session. And the practitioner, who's a friend of mine was going through, and she just goes, oh, oh, you've got rage. And I was like, what the do you mean I have rage? Like, right. Like, it's like, what do you mean? And, and it's so funny because I remember, like, the months leading up, like, I was just snippy, Overreact, not overreactive, but just very emotionally reactive to things and not. Not in a great way. And I knew it Was there. I knew that this was something that was a. Something that I needed to sit with. I just didn't have the courage to sit with it. And I remember being in therapy with my therapist. This man is going to buy a second wind to his home off of me alone, and I'm sitting there with him. And my whole life I had said. Said my parents in my childhood was the way it was. And I'm so thankful because now I'm here where I am. Absolutely true. Yeah. But I'm in therapy that day, and I was like, this practitioner brought up rage. And he goes, how do you feel about that? And I go, I'm so angry at the childhood that I had. Yeah. I'm so angry. And when I said those words, it was like just this, like, flood of just crying and like, I couldn't stop myself. And it felt so good. And I knew that there was some work to do. I knew there was some releasing to do. I knew there were some things that I had to just get. And so I sat down that night, I wrote down every single thing that I was mad at. And you know what? I found that. I found that, you know, I was mad at my parents, mad at this, mad at that. But then I got to me. Yeah. And I was like, I'm just so mad at myself that I allowed myself to be disrespected, unloved. Yeah. Put in positions that were dangerous.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker A: And then I got to. Couple weeks later, I got to, like, acceptance and forgiveness of, like, we did what we needed to do.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker A: We were just trying to survive. And I think that's what a lot of gay men are doing. They're just. They're trying to survive life. Yeah.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker A: But there's power in just saying out loud, like, I'm angry.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker A: I think it's okay. I think it's amazing.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. I agree. Taking responsibility for it is everything. And that's the healing and that's the. A sign of emotional maturity. And I think, you know, I. I can always tell that somebody has unresolved rage in them. Like, especially gay men is when they're catty and gossipy and mean. That mean girl energy. There is so much rage underlying that energy. And it's. Yes, it's anger at the world, but it's mostly anger at self. Self. And until we take responsibility for it, we'll never heal. So I love what you just shared. There's so much. So much truth in that. Okay, so how to overcome this? Let's. Let's share some things. That we feel are, are really can help the listener, viewer, overcome imposter syndrome and, or all the plethora of things we've talked about, because it's all related, it's all interconnected. Right. Imposter syndrome is kind of like an umbrella of all this other stuff that's going on. So what, what are some things that you can share that can help people overcome this? What comes to mind?
• 1:15:29
  Speaker A: And I think the first thing that comes to mind is just accepting where you are being okay with it, finding ways to accept where you're at. And if you don't like where you are, shift out of it. Start making different choices for yourself.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Get support, because a lot of people don't know how to do that.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. Therapy, meditation, journaling, like any. Sit with those bigger emotions. Find people that you trust to share these feelings with. Because I think it gets dangerous when we keep them to ourselves. Yeah, it can get dangerous for people. And they keep these things bottled up, and then there, there isn't this safe place for people to share.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker B: It's interesting. I've, I've kind of the, the, the day of my singing, I didn't invite anybody to come, and I was terrified. I, I, it's interesting. I was, I kind of met this, like, fear of being vulnerable, and then also this fear of intimacy, and it kind of came all in at the same time, and it was like, it's very intimate for me to invite somebody to come support me in this process. But I had this fear that, that I didn't want people to see me. The more and more people to see me being vulnerable. So I was stuck in this, between this rock and a hard place, and I realized how, how terrible I am in my life right now in asking for support and letting people be there for me, letting people hold me.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker A: I, I suck.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker B: I suck at this. And I'm the one that holds people. I'm not the one that needs to be held. That's been a big story of mine. So. Yeah, and this is my heart opening. I'm learning to open my heart to let people be there for me, to hold me, because I need to be held. I really, really am desperate and yearning to be held in life. And, and I'm, I'm held by spirit, don't get me wrong. But I'm not held very much in the, in the physical world because I don't let myself feel held, and I don't let people be there for me. So this is a big learning for me. And I just wanted to share that because you, what you, what you said made me think that.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker B: But it's okay. So how, how I'm overcoming imposter syndrome and things that have worked for me. So. So the first one is embrace messy action. This is a term that one of my beautiful friends Alyssa, introduced me to and just recently. And messy action is like, take action even when it's messy. Just go for it. Don't wait until you're perfect. Perfectionism will tell us. Don't put yourself on stage until you're perfect.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker B: Don't sing publicly until you sound like, like Beyonce, whatever. Right? Like that's, that's the sickness of the mind. And it's like I've been learning to embrace messy action. So I'm leaving my comfort zone even when it's messy and uncomfortable and that's my face the fear and do it anyway is like, I have to, to practice that. So. And yes. What do I meet? I meet vulnerability hangovers. I meet failure. I meet all the things I don't want to meet, but that's the only way that I'm going to grow through it is to go through, through it.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker B: I'm learning to be gentle and kind to myself. And this is kind of like allowing myself to be in the beginner's mindset and just taking it one day at a time. Because the, the old perfectionistic me was like, again, don't put yourself out there until you're perfect. It's like, let yourself be a beginner. Let yourself make mistakes and share it. Practice humility and share. So when I first went up on stage, I just said to everybody, I'm like, this is my very first open mind mic and I'm nervous and. Right. So I, I had to, I had to just like, let people know that I'm, I'm giving, giving myself grace and, and I wanted them to give me some grace as well. I think what we're, what I'm talking about is like growth mindset, you know, growth mindset and fixed mindset. Fixed mindset's very ego motivated. It's very like if you fail, you are a failure. And growth mindset is like giving yourself lots of space to make mistakes and knowing that in each mistake you make, make you learn, you grow and you get closer to what it is you're trying to achieve. And I grew up with a very fixed mindset. I think I have parents who are more in fixed mindsets, more worry, worry, energy. And I adopted that. So I've been Having to like, as an adult, heal my fixed mindset and move towards more of a growth mindset. And some of these things are helping with that. Stay present and avoid hypothetical future trips. Typing. So what I did the day of my show is I was. Or my performance, I guess I was. I was going into the future and I was playing out how it was going to be and I was envisioning myself failing, making mistakes, messing up my lyrics. So the thing that worked well for me that day was when I was present and I was just in my body sensations, just focusing on being in the moment moment. That's when I was at my best. So imposter syndrome, I find is like, it's very. A lot of it is like comparison. It's. A lot of it is pulling yourself out of the moment, going into the future, thinking about how you're not going to be successful or, or whatever. So the more present you can be and stay in the moment, I think the, the better. And then the last tip I have is ask for help. People are just waiting to support you and, and, and guide you and hold your hand through becoming masterful at something. But it's like oftentimes when we're in imposter syndrome, we don't want to ask for help because it, it perpetuates our inadequacy. It's like, well, how can I ask somebody who's better than me at the thing I'm trying to become good at for help? Because it's going to just make me feel less than because I'm going to continuously compare myself to them. But having somebody to be your kind of like your teammate and helping you grow and evolve towards the. This, this master. Being masterful at something is. It's everything. Like, I don't know what I would have done without my vocal coach. Like, she's, she's literally helped me grow into feeling confident enough to get up and sing in front of people. And, you know, this is the work we do, right? We guide people and walk people through and empower them through their healing journeys to becoming their most authentic self. Like, that's, you know, having somebody by your side is everything, right? We are social creatures and I think we all need to be there walking each other home, as Rumi said. So it's. I think it's so, so powerful.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's one of my most favorite quotes I know.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker B: Do you remember the whole. How the whole thing goes?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker A: No, I just remember we are all just walking each other home. I don't know the full. Yeah, Part. That's the only part that I've, like, memorized and committed to memory. Yeah. But it's something that I. I've chosen to live by since I read it. Yeah. And it's really beautiful.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker B: It is beautiful. That's.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker A: That.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker B: That's the quote at the end of my. My book. First book that I wrote.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker B: I put that at the. At the end of my book.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker A: That's such a fun synchronicity.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker B: It is. Yeah. That's why I shared it, because I'm like, this is interesting that this is coming up.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker B: Anything that we didn't cover that you feel that you want to share, share, or is there anything alive in your being right now that you feel necessary to share with us?
• 1:22:38
  Speaker A: No. You know what? I'm just so grateful to be here with you and to share some space with you today and anyone listening. And, you know, I think that what I have to remind myself a lot of the times is that we're just here to enjoy the journey. And so I try to remind myself that. That as much as possible, when the imposter syndrome or. Or the fear creeps in and something that, you know, Abraham Hicks says a lot is that, you know, two vibrations can't exist at the same time, meaning imposter syndrome and belief in self can't ex. Can't be happening at the same time. It can only be one or the other. Yeah. And so I just. I. I hope, hope that if there's anyone that heard anything that resonated that throughout this conversation that, you know, it helped some people shift into something that might feel just a little bit better in those moments where that fear has a lot of momentum.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. And the thing I'm going to take away from this is that we're all going through it. We're all going through it, and we're all comparing ourselves and they're comparing themselves, and we're all in this dance of like, like, like, am I enough? Like, can I do this? We're all scared shitless, right? And we're all great actors and actresses in on this, you know, this play of life pretending like we're not scared, but we're all terrified. And it's okay. It's okay. So I feel seen today listening to you share, like, there's so many beautiful similarities between you and I, and I just feel really grateful that you're now in my life and we can keep connecting and creating and who knows what. What this friendship has in store for us. So I'm excited About that. That. And I do feel gratitude as well. Like, just really grateful for, for you and, and coming on and sharing your wisdom with us and, and your presence. There's something about you. Like, like I was laughing a lot in this session and I, I just was immediately pulled into presence with you and it's just like a really, really beautiful gift. So I feel quite safe in like being. I can just be free to be myself with you, which is such a great feeling. Feeling. Yeah.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker A: That's like the best compliment. I. You know what? Like, I love, you know, like, I love a good physical compliment. Don't get me wrong, right? Like I'm up in that gym and every time I post a gym selfie, you know, I like the great legs. I'm like, I know, right? But like, but you know, I think that's one of the, the best things because for me, that's the most important thing with people that are in my life, that I feel safe. And I also felt safe sharing and there were moments where I forgot we were actually recording a podcast, so. Great.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker B: I know, I know.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker A: And I appreciate you sharing this awesome co creative energy. I feel nice and buzzy now, which is always a good, good thing after a nice long conversation.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, me too. I feel the same feeling. Oh, it'll be nice to take it into the weekend because we're recording this on a Friday, so.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker B: Good, good vibes. How can people find you? And is there anything you want to share about what you're doing in the world before.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. Travis, Warrior, Unicorn. All one, one word, no weird underscores, no funny misspellings. And then my website is travisolp.com and that's, you know, that's how you can track me down and find my work.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. I, I get your. Because I follow you on Instagram, so I get your, your update every day. And it's just like a, it's like a, a shot of espresso. Like, like, you know, it's really, really beautiful. So I love what you're creating and bringing into the world. Keep doing it. It's amazing.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker A: You too.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker B: And you deserve all the success that you're seeing in life right now. You really do.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker A: You. Oh, listen, we're gonna do karaoke. I can feel it.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where are you again? You're in la.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker A: Tacoma, Washington.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker B: Oh, Tacoma. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're not too far. I'll have to come. Come hit up the coast because I
• 1:26:33
  Speaker A: have so many connections along visit. Yeah, any time I introduce to my friend Will, and he'll probably, like, fan girl. When I told him. Him that we were recording this today, he was like, are you serious? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm serious.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We have a huge contingent in Washington, in Seattle. It's. It's our largest audience of all the. The places. It's so fascinating. I'm like, I mean, there needs to
• 1:26:58
  Speaker A: be a live event.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Like, it's crazy. Like, it was like. I think maybe Calgary was hyped because that's where I'm from. In Toronto. That's where Michael and Callan are from. And then it was like, Seattle was, like, way higher. It was like. It was. So I. I'm like, do I know people in Seattle or what? What is it about this region? So I'm getting.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker A: I'm getting chills. Like, there needs to be like, a live.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's. That's interesting. So shout out to all of our Seattle people.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker B: All right, well, for people that are listening on YouTube or on, I should say, podcast, please leave us a star rating, preferably five stars, if you enjoyed. And please share this. Share this with people, because so many people are struggling with imposter syndrome syndrome and could use some of the wisdom that we shared today. And if you are watching on YouTube, please leave comments. We do use them as reviews. And also we will make sure that Travis or I share our wisdom if you have any other further questions or whatever. So I'll make sure Travis sees those questions. All right, much love. Until next time. Y' all take care.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker A: Bye.