Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Why Therapy Hasn't Worked For Your Sexless Marriage

Transcript

Why Therapy Hasn't Worked For Your Sexless Marriage · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the Doctor Psych Bob Show.
• 0:08
  Today I'll be talking about why therapy may not have worked yet
• 0:11
  for your sexless marriage. Before that, please do
• 0:14
  subscribe. Most recent subscriber episode
• 0:16
  was about people who are aromantic, and there's loads of
• 0:19
  other good ones. Oral sex on women is usually a
• 0:22
  hit, and 137 others. All right, so a lot of people
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  come to me as what I call on my site, a therapist of last
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  resort, after they've tried Muri and other therapists and spent
• 0:35
  loads and loads of money. A lot of people try to come to
• 0:38
  me because despite learning how to say their I feel statements
• 0:41
  and communicate better, which is no small feat.
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  If you were raised in a dysfunctional home with
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  craziness, yelling, dysfunction, chaos, or just silence, then it
• 0:51
  is hard to learn to communicate. But you know, that's not usually
• 0:54
  the sum total of what people need to do.
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  Of course, the people that do need to do that don't end up
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  seeing me right. They were fine.
• 1:00
  So they did that and then that was good and and they're done.
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  However, that is not a lot of people, you know, that struggle
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  with sex. So there is not really a way for
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  most therapists to address sex because they don't have the
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  training or the interest. The ones that do.
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  Sometimes they can become a sex certified, which is the sex
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  educator thing, an extra certification.
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  Or they could just talk about it like in their profile and in
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  their most people just have a profile, like on Psychology
• 1:32
  Today. But if they have any other
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  writings or like their website or what have you, if you go to a
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  therapist that doesn't mention sex, guess what they're not
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  going to do in the session? Mention sex.
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  This should be kind of obvious, but it isn't to many people,
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  because people don't understand, like our training.
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  So that's where I'm coming in. In grad school, we learn
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  absolutely nothing about human sexuality.
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  It's nothing like you take developmental psych, you're
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  taking psychopathology, you're taking psychometric theory,
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  you're taking all sorts statistics, right?
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  I mean, there's just a lot of stuff.
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  You take child psych like there's different courses,
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  right? But unless you specifically
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  after grad school go for extra training in couples or sex
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  issues and you're not going to get it as just part of the
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  curriculum. Some MFTS, marriage and family
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  therapists like, will learn more about relationships.
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  For example. I didn't even learn about
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  couples counseling until internship.
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  Like a lot of programs, most programs don't talk about PhD.
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  It's it's funny because people think, oh, PhD, great, you know,
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  knows a lot. It's an advanced degree, but
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  it's usually focused on research.
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  So, you know, we get less clinical training in many cases
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  than people who are solely training to become a counselor,
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  right? So I remember my friend who had
• 2:47
  a counselling PhD. She had like a whole course, a
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  whole one of her classes was on listening skills or something.
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  And I did never get that as a clinical psychology PhD.
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  So in many ways there's nobody like, there's like, same as when
• 3:03
  people go to doctors, by the way.
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  So I'll go to a doctor like AGP and they'll talk about all the
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  the stuff that they just researched on the Internet
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  about, like a certain psychiatric drug.
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  And they'll think that the guys like looking down on them or not
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  taking them seriously. The guy doesn't know they're
• 3:17
  talking about. A lot of the time they don't.
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  They don't do that. Like they're not going to, you
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  know, psychiatrist conferences because they're not a
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  psychiatrist. They're not a specialist.
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  So they know, you know, a lot for a human being, but they
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  don't know. AGP doesn't know as much as a
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  psychiatrist. Right.
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  So, like your average therapist is not going to know about
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  sexual issues unless they pursued advanced training in in
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  those issues or were an autodidact, you know, and taught
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  it to themselves and took their own continuing Ed and read their
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  own books. So they would need to be
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  interested in and comfortable in talking about sexuality.
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  And a lot of therapists are not, because that's not what they're
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  signing up to do. They're helping you understand
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  your your mental issues and your emotional issues and learn to
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  communicate better. Learn to empathize.
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  Learn about, you know, the overlap between your childhood
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  dysfunction and what's going on now, patterns, your general
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  interpersonal style, your personality.
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  I mean just a million variables, but not sex, and not certainly
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  not anything practical or specific about sex.
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  Also, there's a philosophy. You may remember hearing this
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  from your partner if you are the higher libido person that when
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  things get better with sex, sorry with the relationship,
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  they will get better in the bedroom.
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  That only works for like, young, highly sexual people.
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  So, So yeah, so there are some people that I work with, right?
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  And they had a good sex life. Then she had a baby and she
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  thinks he's a real piece of shit because he didn't help with the
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  baby. And you know what?
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  He didn't. He was working.
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  Then he was gaming and he went out and got drunk a couple too
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  many times. And, you know, they literally.
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  But then he feels like she was being a real bitch and she's cut
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  him off from sex. And so that's why he did that
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  and, you know, like that kind of stuff.
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  So when they get to a place where they could empathize with
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  one another and communicate better, this young, younger
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  couple that just recently had sexual issues that are
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  hormonally and situationally based and it's close to the
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  inception of when the problem started.
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  If they work on their emotional closeness, then they'll probably
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  start having more sex. You know, I mean, that's just
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  how it goes for people who had no sexual problems.
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  However, for people who have long standing sexual problems,
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  it's not going to work like that.
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  It's like saying like if we work on on our relationship and our
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  emotional communication, we're both going to get better at
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  running a mile. No, you're not.
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  That has nothing to do with anything.
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  That's a completely different skill set.
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  This goes along with the stuff that I talked in my previous
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  episode, previous free episodes. You definitely should have heard
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  it, the one right before this one.
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  And I was saying that when people make sex into this
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  special sacred thing that's in its special sacred category,
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  then they assume that just 'cause you love each other,
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  you're going to have a communion of souls in the bedroom as well.
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  No way, Jose. No, doesn't work like that.
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  Because that is a skill. Sex is a skill.
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  You learn it overtime and with practice, with one person, with
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  multiple people. However you do it, you're
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  learning. And if you you got to learn
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  things, to learn things. It's like saying like, you know,
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  if I love Spain so much, I think it's such a beautiful country.
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  It's where I want to live. I want to go to Madrid.
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  This has been my goal. So when I get there, I'm just
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  going to learn Spanish. I don't have to try.
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  Before that, I'm going to stand in Madrid and the sun will be
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  shining on my face and immediately I will begin to
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  speak in Spanish. It's going to be awesome.
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  And I say this because I've been studying Spanish with my son, so
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  that's why it's on my mind. But it's crazy.
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  It's like you could really love searching for Bobby Fischer.
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  You ain't going to know how to play chess, right?
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  I mean, it's it's it's like it's kind of crazy to think about it
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  in any other capacity. It's just because you love
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  something and you think it's so wonderful, you're not going to
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  know how to do a skill like that is like a thing that needs to be
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  practiced, right? So it's the same kind of thing.
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  And it's such a crazy philosophy to have if you, if you put the
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  analogy anywhere else, right, just because your heart is in
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  something like you imagine if your kid told you that you're
• 7:19
  paying for one of these exorbitant, like travel soccer
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  teams or some bullshit like this, It's going to bankrupt
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  you, you know, And you have to pick between this college fund
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  and this stupid thing. And then like you said to, you
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  know what? I'm just going to watch a bunch
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  of soccer. I love soccer.
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  So I don't, I don't really have to practice because the spirit
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  will move me, you know, when I'm on the field, you'll be like,
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  yeah, your ass up in practice, you know, What are you talking
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  about? This is a skill.
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  You need to hone this skill. You need to do this skill
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  frequently. You still have so much to learn.
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  You know, you need to go to your coach.
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  You need to talk about the things you did wrong in the last
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  game, like what is going on with you?
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  You can't just feel the spirit move you.
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  And this is yet how people feel about sexuality.
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  And it doesn't make any sense, right?
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  So how are you going to know how to go down on your wife?
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  Better just 'cause you like how she looks and you think she's
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  sexy. How do you know?
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  How do you know? You know?
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  And especially, especially especially if she doesn't tell
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  you. Why wouldn't she tell you?
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  Because A, you sulk, and B, she has no fucking clue because
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  nobody ever did it good, so she has no idea.
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  She doesn't watch porn like most women.
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  So, like, how is she going to know?
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  You know, the point is, like, if you're not speaking to somebody
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  directly about what's going right and wrong in your sex
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  life, different things to try. Learning about responsive
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  desire, learning about your erotic styles, learning about
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  what you each find exciting in bed.
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  Try like, even literally talking about sex in session can make it
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  can be transformative. Just literally us talking about
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  it. Oh, did you have sex?
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  What was it like? Did you like it?
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  What did you do? Bah, Bah, Bah, Bah.
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  This makes people who are previously very shy and awkward
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  talking about sex able to just talk about it like it ain't no
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  thing, you know, which is the goal, right?
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  Because if you could say to you, if you can never say anything to
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  your husband about what he does or doesn't do, you know, then
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  how could you ever get, how could you make it a better
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  sexual experience? Same with what a guy could say
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  to their wife, right. But if you're used to talking
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  about it, then you could be like, oh, I would rather try
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  this or that. You know, maybe you could go
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  slower. Maybe we could shut off the
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  lights for once. You know, maybe we could, maybe
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  you could touch me. This would be a guy talking to
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  his wife. Maybe you could touch my body.
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  There's an act like a real suggestion from, you know, like
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  a lot of women would be like what?
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  I have to do that. And of course I talk about the
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  necessity for foreplay that is focused on both people.
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  But this seems to of course not be something that women would
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  think to do, 'cause they don't know, 'cause nobody ever told
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  them. And although we're getting a bit
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  far afield, as I've said numerous times, if like how
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  somebody going to know something if they never learn it.
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  If a woman doesn't watch poor and she never got any feedback
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  because you don't when you're young, if you're a hot girl,
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  then guys are happy to have sex with you.
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  They don't criticize anything, They can't last more than 3
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  minutes anyway. So like what do they care?
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  And they get you in bed. You lay there like a fish, and
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  they're thrilled, you know, to have this naked, beautiful fish.
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  And then they get older. The woman, and she thinks that's
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  the same thing she's supposed to do when she's married, is lay
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  there like a naked, beautiful fish, except she's not so young
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  anymore and it's not a lot of novelty.
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  And the guys older too, and he doesn't want to fish anymore, so
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  you know what I mean. But the point being that you
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  would never be able to discuss any of this or know any of this
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  unless you discuss it and know it.
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  So that is why your previous therapy did not work as well if
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  it was not focused on these sorts of practical matters and
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  increasing the comfort of both people talking about this topic.
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  Now some people will of course then also say I am my partner
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  says they are not comfortable talking about sex in section,
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  what do I do? So therefore they don't want to
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  talk about a sex, talk to a sex therapist, Well, you only have
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  one fucking life, you know, like that's really what I have to
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  say. If you are living in a sexless,
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  terribly like under sexed relationship, it's also not so
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  great in other regards. So right now, if you learned
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  already how to do your I feel statements, probably that means
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  that you have a wonderful business relationship and that's
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  about as good as that gets because I have never.
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  Yet I've seen people say we feel emotionally closer because we
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  don't yell at each other. No, they say I'm being a good
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  parent. I feel better about myself.
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  I never knew I could have such a calm and peaceful home.
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  And then they say, yeah, you, he and I are great teammates.
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  You know, we're good teammates and I and that's about where it
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  starts and ends. We are better friends now.
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  So I guess in that regard they feel emotionally closer.
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  So I misspoke. I have not yet heard people say
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  they feel romantically closer from their I feel statements and
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  I don't think I ever will. But you know, there's a first
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  time for everything. So when people can empathize
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  with one another, this is wonderful, but that if it does
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  not translate into increased affection, intimacy, other
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  loving romantic sorts of things, which would be touch for most
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  men and some women and romantic words, etcetera for most women
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  and some men and and just basically anything in the
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  romantic couples sphere. If it doesn't translate into
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  that, then you're just a Better Business.
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  You know you have improved the communication in your business
• 12:16
  via consulting and so you know that's not where a lot of people
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  want to get to. So that is why that it didn't
• 12:23
  work yet. And so therefore what you got to
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  say to your spouse is I am very, very unhappy.
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  And I'm unhappy with our intimacy.
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  And I feel like we are just, you know, business partners.
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  And so we, I engaged in the sort of couples counseling that you
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  found helpful. And now I would like to go to a
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  sex therapist or to somebody who at least will help us in that
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  domain or at least I know is sex positive.
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  Because I remember a couple times I tried to bring up
• 12:47
  intimacy with our prior counselor and she was, you know,
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  nodded and said how do you feel about that?
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  And I told her and she said, how do you feel about it?
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  And you said you didn't want to talk about it.
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  Then we never talked about it. And I don't like that.
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  So I want to do something else. Otherwise, you know, I fear that
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  our marriage is at grave risk. You've got to really put your
• 13:05
  skin in the game with that. You can't be scared to say that
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  you feel like the marriage is at risk, 'cause then you're just
• 13:12
  gonna coast along being unhappy forever.
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  And then you can refer back to my myriad other podcasts about
• 13:17
  why you would think that's OK. And it's usually 'cause you saw
• 13:20
  miserable, hopeless parents, and nobody deserves that, and you
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  shouldn't be stuck in that. So don't be shy to tell your
• 13:26
  partner how truly dysfunctional you think the situation is and
• 13:30
  how you really want to address it.
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  And also whole, you know, do your part by saying, I'm sure
• 13:34
  our sex life sucks in part because of me.
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  Yeah, I have a higher libido, but I don't know, I might be, I
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  may be. Terrible fucking common sense
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  would say I am because you never want to do it.
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  So I mean, help me, help you. Like, I want to learn something,
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  you know? I'm sure I don't make this a
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  very easy topic to talk to me about.
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  I'm so sensitive about it all the time because we're barely
• 13:53
  having sex. So I'm I I take it very
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  personally. I'm sure I can't be a person
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  that you could give feedback to. This is the case for, by the
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  way, the majority of anxious or preoccupied attachment men that
• 14:04
  I work with, they talk a big game about being open to sexual
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  feedback. Meanwhile, I get the woman alone
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  and she's like, I can't tell him anything.
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  He'll solve for three weeks if I tell him something.
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  If I tell him to go brush his teeth before he kisses me,
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  there's we have to have a whole conversation about how that's
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  unnatural and it's it's not normal and why should a guy have
• 14:21
  to do that and can he just give his wife a kiss and what's wrong
• 14:24
  with me? So I can't give him any
• 14:25
  feedback, even when he smells bad, literally, you know and so
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  so you don't really know till you get into counseling how
• 14:32
  every person is thinking. And especially those individual
• 14:35
  sessions at the beginning of couples counseling, which I
• 14:37
  always do, one joint, one individual with each, and then
• 14:40
  we reconnect joint. You can be very eye opening to
• 14:43
  say the least. All right, Well, I hope you guys
• 14:45
  enjoyed this. I hope you subscribe because the
• 14:47
  next one will be subscriber only.
• 14:49
  Join my Facebook group. It's 499 a month.
• 14:52
  It's separate than this, but it is cheaper and it is a lot of
• 14:55
  fun. You can talk to me more in
• 14:56
  there. I engage a lot.
• 14:57
  And there's lots of other people who want to give and receive
• 15:00
  feedback and have discussions that are open minded about
• 15:03
  relationships, sex, couples stuff, parenting, career, just
• 15:07
  everything in the world. And there are memes.
• 15:09
  So bring your sense of humor and I'll talk to you.
• 15:12
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• 15:14
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