Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Beyond the Baby: The Journey Through Fertility Trauma deep chats with Sharna Southan

Transcript

Beyond the Baby: The Journey Through Fertility Trauma deep chats with Sharna Southan · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Fertility, health and Coming Back to the Self, an opportunity to go deeper into your journey of life, and all this can encompass with your host, liz Walton.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: This podcast follows the threads of life and the journey of fertility on every level emotional, physical, spiritual and the consciousness we consider our health and what that means in our lives today.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And we bring all of this together with coming home to ourselves, the conscious and unconscious journey of life and how we traverse this in the best way possible.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I am so grateful and humbled you are here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Let's take a deep breath in and release.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: And welcome to this wonderful next episode where I am talking with the gorgeous Sharna Southerne and we've had lovely Sharna before and she specializes a lot in pregnancy loss and supporting everybody to come to a place of peace through her own journey.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: And then she also has a training as well and she does a lot of amazing stuff supporting the world out there.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: But we've been chatting behind the scenes and really wanted to do this talk about fertility trauma and about getting to the spaces where, when you're on a fertility journey, sometimes it's not reached.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: So we're going to delve deeper into this conversation of what is fertility trauma, how we see it and our thoughts, and also we're finishing off about our top tips and ways that have supported us and, yeah, so a way that you know from the tough times there is a way out and a way of supporting us.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So thank you, shana, for being here today.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Now hold on a minute, I can't hear you.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Which is really?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It was working really well.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Why is it not working?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: You can hear me.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Hold on a minute, I can right, let's try again.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Why is it not?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Let's?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: go here.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Try again.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: French face.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I don't really know what I did wrong.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I've undone this.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I can just take all of this front bit out.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Let's try the speakers.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Try again Microphone.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Let's try again again.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, fudge face, why is it not working?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Why is it not working?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: can you hear me now?
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's mine.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can hear you.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hang on a sec.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Let's just try this again.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: It was working before hang on speak hello, hello.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can hear now.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happened.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I just did a speaker test on my end.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, the speaker what?
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: My microphone wasn't working.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like what is happening now?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It was my end this time that's okay.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think should I put my speaker back in, can I?
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Can you speak now?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Yes oh, I can hear you now too.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, no worries, let's go, so I will.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Um, we'll record from now.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Whenever that was recording.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: It doesn doesn't say, but anyway, five minutes in, we'll work it out.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, shona, for being here today and for this amazing conversation I think we're going to have.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me, and I do hope that it is going to be valuable, because I think it's a valuable conversation to have too.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I really do, because I think it's not a conversation that a lot of people have and I know when an individual has been trying, or I like it for myself when I was trying so hard.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: It's like the normal one, the normal journey.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: When you started, it's just like I needed more.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I was in pain, but I didn't know where to go.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: So I think let's start off with your journey and where we can, then you know.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: What do you think about fertility drama?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: What is your definition for you?
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So yeah, just with my journey, like we started off with, I think it was about four years of trying to conceive, and then we went and saw the fertility specialists.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: They gave me some medication and I fell pregnant not long after that, but it ended in a miscarriage.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And when I was obviously going through my healing, going back to the doctors after that asking you know what were my next steps, and it was pretty much, well, you can just try again.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And I was like, but I'm in pain and I don't know, it was just a sort of medical clinical thing, like they would just, you know, see me as this person that was just wanting to have a baby.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: So, just when you get your next period, try again.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Um, but I knew there was something deeper at play, so I allowed myself to go through the healing journey, um, and then I was told by my psychologist that I had experienced trauma, uh, through my loss, and obviously, through the fertility journey and through my loss experience as well, there was a whole lot of wounds that were created in that period of time.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Because, you know, in both of those experiences I was questioning absolutely everything about me as a woman, my capacity to carry children, and then I thought at the end of the miscarriage it was that I wasn't going to fall pregnant ever again.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: yeah, and I know it is our capacity of trying to understand who we are.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: When we're struggling to understand why we can't fall pregnant, when we look out as easily as everybody else, why it doesn't happen for me as easily as everybody else, and then really it we turn in on ourselves on I'm broken, I'm wrong, I'm the problem, and it becomes like such an inner, like attack, and I think this is where we get a lot of the I suppose the best way of saying.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It's like mental health starts to shift from being balanced to imbalanced and that's okay.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: It's called life.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: As we're talking, there's always life around us, all is good and um, I know, you know, in my journey with you, know I, I didn't lose a baby, I just could never get one and every time I was told no, it was like a death, it was like an absolute death.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: And I've recently been introduced to something called FertiQual and you can find it on the website for anybody listening and it talks about the fertility quality and that, when an individual, they've now done tests and spoken to a lot of people and they're realizing that for women that cannot get pregnant or on a fertility journey, the inability to get pregnant is the same as someone who's been told they've got cancer.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: You know, that's the inner representation and feeling and, I suppose, traumatic inner understanding of how we take it, which I thought was wow, that was huge.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I think, to be able to be given.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: That comparison really does put it into perspective, because a lot of the time, infertility and pregnancy loss is dismissed as trauma.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: So you think, oh well, I'm just making this out to be this huge thing and it's not.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I should be okay with this, I should just be able to push through, I should.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: You know all of my feelings and emotions and how big this is actually.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Feeling isn't valid.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So to be able to put that into perspective and have that comparison kind of validates, then you know how big this experience is and through, you know, my fertility, through the loss, like that was the biggest thing.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: That was sort of the current.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Also, the undercurrent of everything was you're, you know, you're okay, you're okay, you'll be fine.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, just try again.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, it doesn't work like that, it's not working like that for me.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Um, so you know, and I guess when I went through the miscarriage, and for women with going through infertility as well, the definition of trauma is that it exceeds our body's ability to cope with the experience.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: So to someone else, when we're looking out to other people, that other people are coping with it, okay, why can't I?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, but it's just your body's ability to do it, your body.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: It exceeds your body's ability to cope with what's happening.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So if it feels big for you, if that journey feels big, it is big.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: But then the current system doesn't allow us to to acknowledge that.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: They just like and even still go and see a therapist and like, but it's not.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, therapy is part of the puzzle, but therapy is not going to help you navigate the trauma that's actually inside of your body, that your body is still holding onto, that is hindering your reproductive chances, your reproductive organs.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: So what would you consider to be is what's going to help?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: What helped you?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: so the thing that helped me was initially acknowledging that my experience was trauma and giving myself permission for it to be as big as what I was feeling, because I initially was thinking I was making it all up, that I was was over-exaggerating, because I don't have a high tolerance to pain.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I was, you know, it was all in my head, but giving myself the permission to acknowledge it as trauma and then allowing my body to actually go through the process, my body to actually go through the process.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: When I was able to understand what was happening, I could then allow myself to find the tools, the resources to help what was happening.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And I realized my body was bouncing between fight and flight and shutdown.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I had no ability to actually be in the present moment.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I would experience this really intense.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I was diagnosed with high functioning anxiety and depression and I was like how can I have these two things where I seemingly so different?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: But that's what was happening to me.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I was going into a high anxiety state but then getting to a point of I can't physically move, I can't think, I can't move, I can't speak, I can't swallow, so much of my bodily functions were starting to rip, they were freezing, and that's the cycle that I was in for years, and when I was able to give myself permission to see my experience as trauma, I could start to identify how that was presenting in my world and then I could start to help myself.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: When I was feeling those moments of high anxiety and freeze like how, then I could start to shift my physiology, shift myself out of those states.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Gosh, that, oh, wow.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes me really reflect.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: And, yes, you know, throughout the years I was trying, and you know, each time being told no, I think that's just really made me reflect.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I think, each time I became more numb and that, what you say, that ability to not be here now, it was that constant looking future wise, I'll be happy when, yeah, it'll be okay.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: When, so, there was actually in a lot of places, no, now, and you're, you're right, I wasn't actually living in the now and one thing I started doing um was was to try and get my happy, I started spending money.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I'm really reflecting on this right now, as you say that, you know, because I didn't know, I just knew, you know, I didn't like how I was feeling, I didn't like it, it felt horrible, and so my words were not helpful to myself, but so I could feel good, I was buying stuff.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's interesting.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when they say trauma and you know our trauma responses trauma and you know our trauma responses yes, some people turn to drugs.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, some people turn to alcohol to numb out those experiences, to kind of cope with what is actually internally going on.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: But also it can be spending, it can be distracting yourself with you know diving into all, like you know overlearning as well, like you can distract yourself with too much information.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So there's also different coping mechanisms and patterns for people and you know online shopping and stuff like that was mine as well.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Like you come into not my house now, but my house before that.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I just had clothes and shoes and bags and I was like everything was probably worn once, but it was only because at the time I needed that sense of like the endorphins, like this, the good, the happy hormones, like I needed something to to make me feel good.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: But then it's not, it doesn't last.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: So once that passes, you need it again yeah, absolutely.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And yes, I was buying, you know, clothes and shoes and stuff, but I was also buying courses and going on courses and learning desperate, desperate to understand.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So, yes, I was doing both of those.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: But I loved what you say the inability to be here now, that fight and flight I really resonate with that and and I didn't know, I didn't know that I was in trauma at all I can look back now and say I love that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: You know, it's about acknowledging you're in trauma.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Like I've had quite a few clients where, um, you know they've, they've, uh, got pregnant, they've had a miscarriage, they've gone to the, you know, they've gone to the hospital or the doctors and it has been dismissed.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And then we've obviously done some work on that.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And I think maybe you know like there could be some more support with being more trauma informed, because I know they're all trying to do the best they can.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I understand desperately that some of them are overworked, underpaid.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: It's, you know, it's.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: We're in a funny old system, aren't we?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: But I suppose what that shouts out to me is how can they be more trauma-informed when something happens to them, because it's very you're left and you're this raw, delicate individual trying to understand what's happened?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know you're questioning every ounce of you, going through the fertility journey, going through a loss experience Like there's so much of you that you're questioning and just to have someone, and that's the thing.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Again, like trauma is the lack of a witness, like a lack of an empathetic witness.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So in that moment trauma can embed itself in you because you don't have the person on the other side of you that is saying, okay, I get it, I see you in your pain and it's valid.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: And show that safety to us in that moment, so that we're not walking away from the doctor's office going, oh my gosh, like I'm alone, no one understands me.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And then it feeds into your body's coping mechanism of like, okay, how can I show myself to be safe in this moment?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: And then your body goes to those survival patterns of this is how maybe I have felt safe in the past is to shut things down.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Um, so that's what then you start doing, but it doesn't.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: The trauma doesn't go away.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: No, but the trauma just stays in your body and then it builds yeah and it starts affecting so much of how your body naturally should you know work for itself.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And um, I think also, you know, if you've been on the journey for a long time, I think you become quite numb and everything becomes overwhelming.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I know I get quite a lot of clients where it's just they're in overwhelm, what do I do?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know where to look, everything's just too much.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And then the high emotion.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know again, that's the trauma, isn't it?
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's making you hypersensitive to the situations, to what would seemingly be a normal.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: You know, even day-to-day life Like it makes you even more sensitive to those emotions, to those experiences.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And our body's internal threat navigation is on high alert too, so it's always consistently looking for the thing that is going to tip you over, the thing that is going to be a threat and again, it could be just normal day-to-day life.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: That becomes a trigger for you then, and then you start having trouble having conversations because you don't want to be triggered, you don't want to feel an emotion in that moment.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So you start avoiding things and you know, everything just becomes so heightened in that moment.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: You know, everything just becomes so heightened in those in that moment, absolutely.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: And when we're deep in um high stress, you know, when our bucket a stress bucket is filled, so to speak, you know the primitive mind will always see things as the worst possible outcome.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: You know so.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Anybody that says, I don't know, oh, you know why don't you have babies?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, just relax.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: So those little things that before would be like I don't know what she's saying, suddenly become the biggest threat to the self, and it might also be words that we're saying to ourselves oh, you know, liz, just relax, come on, just relax.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, how how do I let go?
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I just, you know I need to let go.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I know it's driving me insane.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: How do I let go?
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And then these are the words in our heads, and then you might have someone saying that outside and it just, you know it explodes, doesn't it?
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: We within ourself explode and, um, yeah, the mind will.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And, and then we're, we're on high alert, our body is full of um corazon, um, it's, it's highly stressed, loads of adrenaline and we can't sleep.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: You know we're, we're in, you know, really high trauma.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It's funny, I mean, like I knew, I always say we're in high stress, but I've you the fact that actually we're probably in high trauma too.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just this.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: And then it becomes this chronic sort of state that you're in all of the time and if you're in it long enough, it really does affect how your body works and, like you said, and your sleep like sleep is such an important part of us, our healing, our rest sorry, restoration of ourselves internally, you know things repairing.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: So there's so much that our sleep really aids.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: And when we take that away too, not only is it affecting how our body is restoring itself through the night, it also affects our mental health, which are and affects our emotional health, and affects our ability, lowers our tolerance to be able to handle and cope with, you know, the outside world yeah, and I think also, um, you, looking at some of my clients and my friends as well is trauma is also, I think, sometimes the medical trauma where we push ourselves, okay, let's do another one.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: We push ourselves for more tests, we push ourselves for, you know, the next cycle, the next cycle, the next cycle, and I think our body then also becomes highly traumatized.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I know I've worked with a few clients where you know it's just, we'll try again, we'll try again, we'll try again.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Why is it not working body?
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: You know whether it might be because you know there has been a miscarriage and we keep trying, we keep trying, or or just that keep pushing, you know, finding space and healing in the body.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: We've done a lot of work with that, but that's, you know again, that's another way of, or part of, fertility drama.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, Exactly, and I've spoken to so many women who have gone through IVF cycles and also experienced losses in amongst their IVF.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: But also, like you said before, you don't even need to have a physical loss to have the grief and the loss element in amongst all of that too.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: But so much of them expressed to me how important it would have been or how valuable it would have been if the professional sitting there would have said you know, how are you mentally, how are you coping physically, how are you coping emotionally?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Do you need a break?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Because it wasn't until they made that decision for themselves I need to step away, I need to just stop.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: That they realized how much trauma, how much pressure they had been putting on themselves to just keep going and then in the end it just felt like this vicious cycle of giving their power away all of the time and then really not knowing and not trusting their body to enough to sort of just go well, you know, I don't even know what I need anymore.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And when they.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: But when they made that decision to stop, it was almost like they got with they, given the space to think clearly and to really tap into what they, what they truly wanted and what they felt like they needed and just gave themselves the space and I say this a lot in my trainings and in women I support as well there is so much power in the pause, like when we choose to just stop and take a break.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: We give ourselves the chance to understand what it is that we want and allow our bodies our bodies to go through that healing process yeah and when we do keep pushing, if our body is in that trauma response, it's not actually serving you because you're only adding more stress to your system, which is actually, if you're in that response already, your body is not sending any resources to your reproductive organs.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: So, allowing yourself the chance, the space to pause, the space to reset, can allow you then to nourish your nervous system.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Show safety to your body to say, okay, it's safe to fall pregnant, it's safe to go down this path.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, allowing the body to feel safe the body and mind really it's both is really kind of one of the magic tools, um, and it's how to do that, isn't it like?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I know, um, that idea of the power in the pause.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: So I remember, you know, I had six ivfs in the end and the last two I was really ill afterwards.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: You know the pain for me and I can look back now and at the time I was a bit like, oh, you know who am I to feel sad.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It was really.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: You know the pain for me and I can look back now and at the time I was a bit like, oh, you know who am I to feel sad.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It was really interesting.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: You know who am I to feel sad.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: You know I didn't even get pregnant, but now you know I can look back and go.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I was like I was really traumatized, especially the last one.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I had a massive chest infection, ear infection, you know, didn't want to hear it and it felt.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And it's really interesting to reflect back just how sick and I was, and I know it was all the aftermath of that and you know the power of the pause.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I loved what you said there and when I knew I had to let go but didn't know how.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: The universe sent me an amazing, I'd suppose, a North Star, with my sister-in-law being able to get pregnant first time, ivf, and that, to me, was okay.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Now I know I really have to give up because the pain is so much, but it gave me even more of an impetus because before I kept hanging on like what, if, what, if, what, if.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: But truly letting go, I think, was that pause of just like, well, it just doesn't matter anymore.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter and it it was.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: It was a big stress off my, not just my shoulders, I think, my whole being.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: You know my mind and you know just being able to breathe more, I think, and it allowed me and my husband to connect more and all of this interesting stuff, which then, three years later, I fell pregnant, naturally.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: But and this is what I take now into all of my, my work with my clients is that power of the pause and I love how you put that, you know, of when we can release that pressure we put on ourselves, because no one's putting it on them except for ourselves, is it?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's, it's in all it's an internal pressure and you know I get it.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I was there too like there was the whole you know your body clock, like if I wait, you know I'm gonna be older and I'm going to, it's not gonna or it's not gonna happen, and how many years can I do I wait or how much time do I give to this?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: So it is very much an internal pressure.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: No one else is.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: We do think people are judging us.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: We do think people have have these thoughts about us too, but really they don't.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: It's just what.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: We perceive that for ourselves and and you know, um the timelines that we feel like we should be done doing things.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: But really, if you just took some time out for yourself or you advocated to the specialists and just said, look, I just, you know I don't want to keep going, I can't keep pushing, I need some time to take for my emotional health, my physical health, and we can, you know it's okay to speak up, it's okay to maybe challenge their timeline, because it's you need to do this for you.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: You need to be healthy mentally, physically, emotionally, going through that whole process too, mentally, physically, emotionally, going through that whole process too.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: But it can be very, very easy to fall into that pressure of you know, especially and I hear it a lot with women who are going through fertility treatments is the body clock.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: You know how?
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: I've got to keep going, I've got to keep pushing.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: They tell me to keep going.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to listen, but um yeah, it's a very difficult, very difficult place to be and, again, like you said, the decision that you make isn't easy, um, and you almost wish that you could just hand all of that over to someone else to make the decision for you.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, it would be handy, wouldn't it?
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But that's not the truth, is it?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: No I mean, I think what came up to me earlier when we were chatting was it is kind of like gambling.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: You know that need to gamble Not that I've really ever gambled but you know instead of you know when you're, I don't know, in front of those big machines and you're putting in a dollar.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: It might be a win, it might be a win, it might be a win.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's many more dollars, but, um, I'll just try my next one.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I'll just try my next one.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: It is that gambling.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: We just need that one, just that one.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: That one will work.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: And when?
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: When is it crossing the line?
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: When is it, you know, when is it affecting our mental health to a point that it's not healthy anymore?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that's all you know.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: A big question that only the self can answer, and usually I think there tends to be some kind of catalyst.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: That will happen.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: For the individual.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: That will be okay.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: You know, for me I definitely had those.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I was asking you know, when do I stop?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And things happen.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: So, since we've had a really good discussion about what is fertility trauma and what you know what that can be in all the different ways, I think now let's look at you know what's the way out.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Let's give some wonderful tools or steps.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: You know path to follow about finding the light, finding peace.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: You know path to follow about um, finding the light, finding peace.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: You know beautiful Louise Zwicky as well, who was also she's a fertility coach as well.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Gorgeous lady, you know, and I know she says that she tried for six years and I think her doctor sort of said you need to stop and you need to.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You know, just go and do some things that make you happy.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And she was.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: If I got the story right, you know she spent a year and completely changed her life, really found so many tools that supported her meditation and and so many beautiful tools, and then I think when she went back then she got pregnant just after that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Naturally, I think, if I got that right, so spare me if it's wrong, but just the need to stop that pause.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: And what do I need to get my mind, my body because for all of us it'll be different to feel safe, to reproduce yeah, and, like you said it, different.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I know for me there were so many different elements to that.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Like I always call it a puzzle, because there were so many different puzzle pieces that I had to put together to get to that point of well one.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I felt like I couldn't fall pregnant.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Naturally, we had to go down that path of fertility specialists, then the first pregnancy ending in loss.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So then I had to, you know, almost try to help my body to understand that that's not going to happen again.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: You just don't know, like you can't predict the future.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: So the biggest thing for me was surrender.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, how can I show myself safety right here, right now, in this moment, I'm safe, and it's not just about telling yourself that you're safe because you could be in a safe environment, you could be at home, you could be around people that you love, and that's all safe.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: You could be at home, you could be around people that you love, and that's all safe, but that's not how your body perceives it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Like your body still feels that sense of threat, so it's really sitting with that.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: When those emotions arise, when those thoughts like the anxiety, the fear, you know all of the things that come up, when they arise, like what is there with them?
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And really just understanding, because that is your body's way of communicating.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not safe now and this is why I don't feel safe and, like you said, everyone's path to that is going to be different.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: And I think if we ask ourselves those questions to ourselves like what is it that is coming up for me right now, what do I need right now, in this moment, your body will communicate that with you and I know there are somatic practices that you can do.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: There's ways that you can physically release that emotion, meet it at the intensity that it has, whether it's fear, whether it's anxiety, whether you just want to scream or punch or whether it's anger.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: What is it that you need in that moment to physically release that, to to expel that energy, not just think it away or not just try and journal it away.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: There's a you've got to meet that energy where it's at as well yeah, I, um, I resonate so much.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: So what I think I I feel we can do is a bit of a step.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: I think one is first of all acknowledging I'm not happy.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: This is trauma.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Two, what is coming up for me right now and what does?
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And three, what does my body need to feel safe?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And I remember I was talking to a girlfriend of mine and you know at the time, just like it's not gonna work, what do I do?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And I remember her saying liz, break that glass, let it fall into a million pieces and just allow yourself to weep, cry.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And that's that was like that permission to just all that holding on.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And you know everything.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: It was just like just let the whole thing go.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And I think I like cried for a week.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: It was just a mess and, um, it was brilliant.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: You know it just released so much stuff.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of what you're saying about meeting that, that depth, that um, the, the depth of pain, of grief, of sorrow, of of it all.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: It's just I'm gonna sit here and be in it and just allow it to have its way with me, just let it go yeah, yeah, and you know I met, I, I met my anger and stuff like that so many different times.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I would scream into a pillow, I would punch the bed and there were so many times.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: After you do that, you're like, oh my gosh, you feel that release and then you know there's even you know different ways that you can express safety to your body.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: And it can be touch, it can be just holding yourself and showing yourself okay, I'm here, I'm here like I'm present and I'm and I'm okay, and you know I safe.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Or it could be even just a weighted blanket, it could be, you know, warmth, like heat packs.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I know heat packs have always been a really big one for me and they're all little things as well.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: It's not that you have to go and do like a big breath work practice or a yoga practice or a big meditation practice.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: There can be little things that can show yourself, set yourself that safety after that big release as well.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: And, um, you know I would just sit and just hold my arms and you know I touch my you know upper body and, um, you know there's I think it's called like the butterfly hug, like you put your arms up over and you can touch here.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's pretty much just embracing your body and just saying I'm safe, yeah, I'm okay.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I've gone through this big release, like all of this intensity has come out of me and now I'm safe and it's not just going to go away once.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something that you practice, like it'll be a practice that you continue.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because I always used to go.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I will survive, I will survive, I will survive, I will used to go, I will survive, I will survive, I will survive, I will.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I will get through, I will survive.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: You know, that was, that was my mantra at the time it's like I will survive.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I will get through this.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I know it doesn't feel like it, but I will get through this, you know yeah, I think that's the thing too, like mantras and affirmations can work for some people, but also, if it doesn't work for you, if there's still some sense of resistance to you know what it is that you're saying and you really viscerally don't believe you can get through it, then it is about going inside again and understanding okay, what is it that I don't believe Like, what is it?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: That is really that restriction that you know to that statement, because I know for myself there were so many times people were like just say positive affirmations just you know, be happy.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: And I was trying affirmations, just you know, be happy.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: And I was trying.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: And I was like I could feel in my body that there was every ounce of me did not believe what I was trying to tell myself.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: And I told myself the same thing.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I did what they told me to do, the practices, the affirmations and I was like it's still, I'm resisting, there's still part of me that is like sabotaging what is actually what I'm saying.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: And it was that there was no and, like you said, your mind and your heart and your body are always in constant communication.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: They're connected.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: So there was, there was no congruence.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: My brain and my heart were so disconnected that I could not.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I needed to really do some nervous system work, some safety work with my body first before I could even entertain the idea that I was going to be okay because my body just did not feel it.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea that I was going to be okay, because my body just did not feel it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this might be a good time for individuals now if they have been able to just release.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: You know, it is a good time now to probably find a semantic therapist where they're teaching you, because I didn't know.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And I think after that, after this and that big release, that was when I was there going, okay, what do I need to do now?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: I need to understand how to help my body feel safe.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I've had this massive release and I do feel better, but what do I do now?
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: And so then that's when I did start to search, you know, who else can help me to really embody, imbibe, be, you know this next being, because I literally knew that I had to.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: You know that me that thought I could get pregnant, that thought, you know, all of this was going to work, she had to go, I had to find that next, me that will survive.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: So that crying was almost that release.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: It was a death.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It was like a death of the self, like really meeting the dark soul of the night, and it's like I had to, you know, unzip her.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I had to take her off because I had to find the next me that was going to survive, that was going to like you know, okay, I can do this.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it looks like and I need to, you know, understand the body work that you know who do I need to, you know, understand the body work that you know who do I need to speak to and see.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, I felt like I had to take her, take her off and let her go and thank her, but I needed to find the next me.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's how it felt for me.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as you were saying, that's so much of.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: There was so many different things that were coming to me, because I'm like over the past, over my healing, there was those moments of that too, and when you said the dark night of the soul, I was like I put my hand up and I say that I went through that space, it was, and you do, and you said it too.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: You have to be okay with the woman that got you to where you are and thank her for that journey, but she's no longer going to be the woman that is going to carry you forward.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: So there is that, but it is that embodiment, like, yes, there will be elements of her that is coming with you, but it's not going to be all of her.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: You are different and even in any space of time, we're not the same person as we were like five minutes ago, half an hour ago, an hour ago, but even more so you're not the same person that you can't go back to the woman before the journey, before the infertility, before the loss.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: So you have to be okay to let her go and, like you said, unzip that layer and reconnect and build the woman that is going to then carry you forward.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: And who is she?
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: What's her identity?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: You get to choose and that's the.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: That's like the best part.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: You get to choose what she values, who she stands for, what she's been through, and it's.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: That is that whole embodiment process yes, it really is, and it's almost like um, you know another thing is like the Phoenix, you know where.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: You know it dies, but then it regrows more beautiful.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: You know because there's more learnings, more understandings, more permission, more empathy, more growth.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: You know, and you're sort of you're bigger, your heart's bigger, and it's just you know.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: For me it was I am surviving.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: It went from I will's bigger and it's just you know, for me it was I am surviving and it went from I will survive to I am surviving.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: You know, and even those little words became yes, we can do this, because it before it was not an option to let go, was, was to die.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: The other side of death was.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I'm okay.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a rebirth of of you and, like you said, it's not, it's.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: There's so much more to you now.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: There's so much more depth to you.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Like you said, empathy, compassion, understanding.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: You know those challenges are never there to stop you.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: They're never there to keep you stuck.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: They're not designed that way.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: It's very easy to do that, but they're designed to help you move through, to help you grow, and it's a invitation to step into the person that you can become oh god, I feel like I'm getting chills right now.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: My daughter is learning, she's in choir and she's that song you Rise Me Up.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: That gave me goosebumps, just you saying that you rise me up so I can stand on mountains, you know, and you know you rise me up because I can stand on your shoulders and it's just like phew, you know.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And, and you know you rise me up because I can stand on your shoulders and it's just like poor, you know, and it's that acknowledgement of the self that you've been through some hard times.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: But we need to, we need to move forward, and to move forward is kind of to let go of the old self.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: And, and this is why I say the fertility journey, yeah, it's freaking tough, but the it is also the gift to grow more than you ever thought you could yeah, I think I've said that before, either to myself or to other people too.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Like it is, it's not nothing that you learn in that journey you could.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: There was nothing else in your life that could ever give you that lesson or ever prepare you for that or ever grow you in that way.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: There's no other self-discovery thing that could ever give you that.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: But to go through that, like you said, it's tough and it's not like you ever choose it, but it's going to give you so much more beauty if you allow it to yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like taking a breath on that.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: So, um, and then what happens from there?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: So for me, it was, um, you know who am I, you know who, who is this person that um can walk forward now, who?
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Who do I want to be?
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: And, um, I think I went to more courses, um, about what is it like to be a woman.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: You know, I think I found a few, you know, real feminine workshops and understanding who I was and what is a good relationship, because my relationship was quite shattered because I was angry, yeah, and it was kind of rebuilding me.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: You know, my relationship was quite shattered because I was angry, yeah, and it was kind of rebuilding me.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: you know, that's sort of where I went next.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and like I said before, it's an opportunity for you to really define yourself the way that you want to, to let go of even all of the beliefs that you had about yourself before and just shed those as well, shed all of the.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: You know I re-chose friendship circles.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: I re-chose, you know, belief systems, belief patterns about myself.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: There was so much that I was.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: It kind of got like you said.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: You get to that catalyst moment and you get to that like moment of just like you know what.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: None of that was serving me, none of that actually matters to me anymore.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: So then you know, I had to sit down and I had to define my core values again.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because I was like I don't actually know what I stand for anymore.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: You know what is my identity?
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Who am I?
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Who do I identify with?
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, without sort of core values, you feel like you're floating, you don't really stand for anything.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: So it was like I had to figure out what I truly valued and what, what made me happy, what I could connect to again that maybe I hadn't done in a long time, or things that maybe I wanted to try.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: And yeah, like you said, when you go through these challenges, it does really test the relationship as well.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: So it's then reconnecting to who you are in the partnership, in the marriage, and how to then rebuild that all moving forward as well.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: But it does.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: It makes you question yourself.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: You know the way that you present in all of the different areas and circles in your life.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Then, after that, yeah, it takes you to your core, it takes you to your you know it's like, you know, like a knockdown, rebuild.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: And again, you know it's like, you know it takes you down and then you build yourself back up.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: And I knew, for me it was like I didn't want to be someone that was oh, I didn't want to spend my life in a victim.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: If only I could have.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be strong, I wanted to.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, on one hand, you've got this life going oh, I wish I'd had a baby.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: And then, on the other hand, you've got this hand waving at you going, hey, I'm this amazing life, but I can't see it, because I can't look that way.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like driving forward in your car, but all you can see is the back.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: You like driving forward in your car, but all you can see is the back.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: You know what's behind you and I wanted to be able to see what was in front.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, who am I if I go forward?
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: And again, no other life experience makes you dive into the version of you, makes you question who you want to be or what you want to do, or how that future is going to look.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I don't believe.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there is really anything else that allows you to go that deep into your identity.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: I would say you know a few of my clients that have been cancer survivors.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: It's again another journey where we can go deep into who are we to?
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: But I don't know, because all of our journeys are different.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think this is where it all has to be acknowledged, and, um, it's, it's all that part of ourselves that allows us to grow, um, and it's the opportunity to sink or swim.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Isn't it to go beyond or to choose not to?
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: And that's our choice.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a difficult choice.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: It's so easy and you know the place there in the depths, in the darkness.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: You know it, it's your comfort zone and to step out of that it requires vulnerability and surrender and not knowing so, although in that place, that's where you're going to reconnect to the technicolor aspects of your life.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it can be daunting and it does require a lot of courage to get to that point.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: And it is at that point, I think, that we find ourselves.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: You know, we come home to ourselves.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: We find ourselves and our body is in that state of okay, I'm here, I am safe, and you know so I know with a lot of clients myself this is where you can get people that fall pregnant again and this is where you do get people that try again and it can work.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: But it's that ability to find that space of I don't know that pause, that space of it's okay, I don't need anything else.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: So for me, I didn't need anything else outside of me to make me happy.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I was okay as I was.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I was enough, I am enough, which was again another huge journey within all of that, you know, and that is that space to where we are safe.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: My body was safe, you know, and I know I work with that with a lot of my clients, and this is where magic can happen in lots of different ways.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where magic can happen in lots of different ways.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, just I know with, like you said, that's a very big place to come to to in amongst what you feel like is the storm to come into and go.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: You know what.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I am enough I can take a step back at this moment.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know how it's all going to play out.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I can't, you can't predict the future.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is a really, it is a really powerful place to come to in amongst what you feel like is the storm.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: What you feel like is the storm, absolutely, and so I think that's the conversation, isn't it?
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: It's going through the madness, going through the eye of the storm, going through the darkness and kind of being sucked up, chewed up, that's that out, and then you know, and it's more dropping through, isn't it?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: It's just like, okay, I now release, I just let go and coming through and like that sort of rebirth, like ooh, here I am, yeah, and I have survived and I'm okay and all right, what now?
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: But this, what now?
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I'm in a better place.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a really empowering question and a really empowering place to be, then at that point to ask what now?
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Because then you get to choose then what that looks like, given everything that you've gone through.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, it's a really beautiful place once you can look back and go.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: You know what.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: I've just gone through all of that and it is okay.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I'm on the other side, I am safe, um, because it can feel like darkness, can feel consuming, but when you're on the other side of it, when you can see that light, when you're in that light like it's a really empowering place to be it really is, and this is the place where we want everyone to be able to connect to, because that that is our, our higher self, it is our, our body's potential, you know, and it's where we can all be yeah, and it's possible for them to be there, um, and I think sometimes it is hearing that it's possible.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and I know, for you know, I've had a couple of clients get pregnant recently and it was really sweet with one client.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: She's like, you know, thank you for seeing in me the ability to just, you know, get to that space of understanding and she goes.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: When I got there, this little thing came in and I was just like, oh my gosh, that's so amazing and I was just like, well, that wasn't me, that was you, you know.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: So it's um, it's beautiful.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: And I think the gift is is we become our best self, which means we become the best human being to bring to this world, create healthier relationships, and then you know, if motherhood is that stage in one way, because motherhood can hit us in so many different ways, you know we become that best mother, you know.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that's why I think a lot of the healing work, when we can give ourselves permission to do that before trying to conceive, before going down the path of falling pregnant again, it gives us the best possible chance to be the best version of ourselves first, so that we have, you know, and that goes into the whole epigenetic side of it, right, doesn't it?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of what we, a lot of that internalized trauma, stress goes directly into the baby.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: So when we can heal that, when we can process and move through, it doesn't always have to be completely gone.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: It's not ever going to be completely gone, but it wipes us clean in a way, doesn't it?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we give our baby also the best possible chance to be their best self, like without being born with, you know, imprinted trauma as well, and that's when we can start to really break the generational cycles.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up because I know for myself learning, I had sexual abuse in the past and that was one of the big areas I knew I had to focus on because if I didn't deal with it all in every aspect of my being which was a lot of courses and you know, but going to see lots of people talking about it and doing some huge work I didn't want that to be passed down and I needed my body to be healed and clear, healed and clear, clear and healed.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: So yes, I think that's a great and glad you brought that up.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: With the epigenetics, you know stuff happens and the ability to clear that.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: So the slate is clean.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: They don't have to have our excuse my language shit.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like why am I acting out in this way?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And then you see her acting out in that way and I'm like I'm doing the exact same thing.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: But it's because she experienced so much trauma when she was pregnant with me.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: There was so much fear and anxiety in her that then I was naturally wired that way.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: So when the babies are born then more naturally geared into a survival response, depending on what the mother's nervous system was like, and they're wired for potentially a world that is threatening.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: But then they come out and you know they could be potentially what society sees as naughty babies, or you know ones that are very overly anxious and clingy.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: But it's not like it's not them, it's their nervous system.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: They need that extra reassurance.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: You know what's happening, they're trying to navigate also a new world, but then also their nervous system is like what the hell is happening?
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: So I often tell women when they say, you know, when should I try to conceive again?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like when you've done some work for yourself, when you feel that no one is ever going to be healed completely it's this ever-evolving journey but when you feel like you've done work for yourself and you feel like you're in a really strong, confident place to be able to go down that path and then continue.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: And then you can continue working on yourself.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: But the healing begins with us first, so that we can, we don't pass that through and we can start to really shift the patterns for the future generations.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a beautiful book by Sharon King and it's called Heal your Birth, heal your Life.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: I'll make sure I put that in the notes and it's just all about that.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: It's fantastic.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, well done for bringing that up.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, done for bringing that up.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, yeah, something I'm so passionate about and I've I've created courses like on epigenetics and trauma and pregnancy loss and fertility, so it was.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: It was something I was actually only going to start off as a master class.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, like a one-day master class, two-day master class and then it ended up being 10 modules of like information and I was like, no, this is actually a course, so I do actually have a master class purely on it.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Um, it's about two hours but, um, it dives into just the foundational aspect of epigenetics, of what it is is how that affects pregnancy loss, trauma, infertility, all ties into that topic, because there's not very many people that are in the epigenetic space that actually tie in those elements.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: So I needed to create something from that perspective, because women obviously are going through trying to conceive, you know, through their fertility journey or through pregnancy after loss, and this is such a big element of the healing process piece of the puzzle that if there was awareness to it first, before they went down that path, then, like you said before, it gives you the best opportunity to be more authentically you, the best version of you that you can be for our babies and for their future.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, that was my nerd, my geeky, nerdy brain sort of going like I'm getting so excited about that topic well, and it's a you know, it's that download.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, this needs to be understood, realized and, um, you know, this is a way of learning about it, so awesome, yeah, so I think we've managed to do a really good um, you know, discussion of what it is coming through and the other side and moving forward.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: So if there was, um one sort of how can we finish this?
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: What would be your words to finishing this?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: And then I want you to share how everyone can find this work that you do as well, um, how would be a great way for you to to finish, you know, the conversation on fertility trauma.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I just think, going back to like the root of it all, if, for, if your journey feels overwhelming, if it feels big, if it feels like you, you're kind of being suffocated and with all of this things coming at you all of the time and you feel like you need a break, take that space Really, really look to understand what it is that is coming up for you and allow yourself to actually witness and feel the emotions to completion.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: Try not to um, either push them aside or dismiss them, because what happens then is we're just pushing that energy back in.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: When that emotion comes to you, it's coming to you in that moment for a reason not to be, you know, seen in an hour, in an hour's time or a day's time, um, so I just know that for me, you know giving yourself permission to feel how you need to feel, and if it feels big, then it is.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: You're not, you're not making it up.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Allow yourself, then, to maybe explore what some practices would be, to maybe show that safety and release to your body.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Some somatic practices like that would feel safe to you.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Um, like I said before, you know it could be as simple as you're just holding yourself or warm, you know heat packs, getting a few warm heat packs and putting it on you.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: Just sometimes weighted things make your body feel safe.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: So just to be with yourself.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: And trauma, what trauma does?
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: It disconnects us from our body and sometimes it can feel really unsafe to feel the emotion, to be present with the emotion, to actually be in your body.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: It can feel unsafe.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: So just exploring that, becoming curious.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: And when you become curious it actually shifts the energy of what that, what what's actually happening for you, because when you become curious it opens you up, it expands you rather than constricts you.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: So you don't want to obviously re-traumatize yourself but really just gently explore that and finding just little practices that you can do to release the emotion, whether it is screaming into a pillow or punching the bed or just a safe way to physically also release that emotion.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: But I think, just like at the foundational level, really being able to witness what's happening and give yourself permission for it to feel big yeah, that's beautiful.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful and I I agree on all of that.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think what I have to say is, you know, when you've been pushing and pushing and pushing your body and yourself and you're in a space, in a space of feeling, you know, overwhelmed, it's enough you're in pain.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Just, I think I let the idea take that pause and stop and ask what do I really need?
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's okay, I know we get that one all at my age, my age or whatever it might be.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Just breathe into that and go.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: You know what, if I just look after myself and and meet yourself, give yourself that permission, and you'll be surprised what might come from that.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's society doesn't like to allow that particularly to happen.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: But so do that for you, take the pause, witness what's happening and understand how your body is actually communicating with you, because it is yeah, and reach out.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's lots of amazing now fertility, uh, coaches, um, that tend to do it because of their own journey.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, see what other therapists there are, and that's why I'm doing the fertility expo is to bring everybody under one room and then, of course, reach out to the beautiful Sharna.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: So, sharna, how can people find you?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've just created a separate page on Instagram purely for the certification, for all of the knowledge-based educational stuff that I offer.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: So it's the Institute of Healing, dot loss support, and that shares everything that I know from my experience, from all of the growth that I've done and then all of the programs I've put together from there.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: I also help women in pregnancy, loss, grief, infertility spaces, either build or restructure their businesses so that it's more aligned to their energy, to their work, to their mission, to their vision, to the legacy that they want to leave.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: So that's my.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: I have another Instagram handle that was the original one but now has shifted to that whole business.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: I really want to see women in these businesses survive for years, not just survive for a year and then fall apart because they're in burnout.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: So I do obviously offer that element too, and the handle for that is institutorhealing, underscore PL.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, make sure you send me those details.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: I'll put them all in our show notes.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and um, for me my website is just liz waltonorg.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: Come and find me.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: You know we're all here to support you on every part, and if there is a space in your fertility journey that is so traumatic, we hear you, we see you and we want to help you because, um, coming home to the self can be the magic for all sorts of things, just to find peace.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: You know that can be.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: That can be such comfort, can't it?
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anything else you would like to add?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Shana, just that, if it like, even if you don't feel like healing is possible, if it feels like it's unattainable, it's out of reach that version of your life that you want to create, you just feel like it's gone.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: It hasn't.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: You're just you're, you're just becoming like and, like you said, it is a journey of coming home to yourself.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: So you are, you are in a stage, in a phase of becoming, and there is going to be the opportunity for you on the other side.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: So just be with it, stick with what you're doing, keep taking one step forward and it's inevitable that you will get there.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah trust yourself because you do know.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: You do know.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Trust yourself, yeah, so we're going to leave you on that to trust yourself and to know that you have the answers inside.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Sharna, thank you so much for today, thank you for this conversation.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's been beautiful and may this have been some medicine for hearts and souls and beings.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: And, yes, know that you have the answers.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: And to trust yourself.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: And with that, I'll send a beautiful goodbye and love to all of you.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of Fertility Health and Coming Back to Self.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast and consider leaving me a review, which will help me to reach others who may benefit from this information.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Feel free to get in contact at Liz Walton dot org or via social media at Liz Walton underscore fertility coach.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Fertility coach and, if you feel called to, I would love you to share this podcast with anyone you think this could be a healing for, as an elixir for the soul.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: I'll see you next time.