Latest / The Diversity Career Podcast with Fexingo: Inclusion, Equity, and Underrepresented Professionals / How One Company Uses Reverse Mentoring for Inclusion
Transcript
- Lucas: So there's this practice that keeps coming up in DEI circles and I think it deserves a much closer look. It's called reverse mentoring. And the basic idea is almost comically simple — you pair a senior leader with a more junior employee, and the junior person becomes the mentor. But the execution gets really interesting once you zoom in on one firm's approach. Luna: I've heard of it mostly in the context of tech companies trying to get older execs up to speed on social media. But the version I'm guessing you're talking about goes a lot deeper. Lucas: Exactly. The version I want to drill into is focused on inclusion and career equity. So a global consulting firm — I'm going to call them 'Apex Consulting' because they prefer not to be named in case studies — launched a program in early 2024 where every single managing director was required to participate in a six-month reverse mentoring relationship with a junior employee from an underrepresented background. The junior mentors were analysts and associates, people two to four years out of undergrad. Luna: Required? That's a strong word. Typically these programs are opt-in. Lucas: Right, and that's exactly what makes this case stand out. Apex made it mandatory for the managing directors, not for the junior participants. The juniors could volunteer, but the MDs had no choice. And the stated goal wasn't to teach the MDs about TikTok. It was to give them direct exposure to the lived experience of colleagues who face systemic barriers. The program was structured with monthly one-on-one conversations, a shared project, and a final presentation back to the MD's peer group. Luna: So the junior mentors are essentially advising the most senior people in the firm on inclusion, from a personal standpoint. That's a big power shift. Lucas: It is. And the results, after two years, are pretty striking. Apex surveyed the MDs before and after the program. Before it started, only about 30 percent of them said they felt confident identifying microaggressions in their own teams. After six months, that number jumped to 78 percent. More concretely, the firm saw a 40 percent increase in the number of sponsorship relationships formed between MDs and employees of color — and sponsorship, not just mentorship, is what actually drives promotion rates. Luna: Forty percent is huge. And I bet the junior mentors themselves got a lot out of it too, beyond just the visibility. Lucas: Yeah, Apex tracked that as well. Junior participants reported a significantly higher sense of belonging and — this is the part I find most interesting — a much clearer understanding of how decisions get made at the top. One analyst told the internal research team that before the program, she assumed promotions were mostly based on performance ratings. After six months of reverse mentoring her group's managing director, she realized how much informal networking and visibility played into it. And that knowledge actually changed how she navigated her own career. Luna: So it's not just the senior person learning. The junior person gets a backstage pass to how the organization actually works. Lucas: Exactly. And I think that dual-direction benefit is why this program survived a leadership change. Apex had a new CEO take over in mid-2025, and a lot of DEI initiatives got scaled back. But the reverse mentoring program was expanded. The new CEO actually cited it as a key driver of the firm's improved retention of high-potential junior talent from underrepresented groups — which, by the way, improved by 22 percent year-over-year. Luna: That's a business case that's hard to argue with. If you're keeping your best early-career people longer, that directly impacts your bottom line. Lucas: Right. And the program wasn't expensive to run. Apex estimated the total cost at about $150,000 annually — that's mostly for the program coordinator, training materials, and a small stipend for the junior mentors. For a firm with over 10,000 employees, that's negligible. Luna: So what were the mechanics? How did they actually match people and keep it from becoming just another meeting on the calendar? Lucas: Good question. Apex used a structured matching process based on a questionnaire that both parties filled out. The questions weren't about functional expertise — they were about identity, experiences with inclusion or exclusion, and what each person hoped to learn. The program team did the matching manually to ensure that every junior mentor was paired with an MD from a completely different practice area, so there was no direct reporting line. Then each pair received a discussion guide with suggested topics for each month. Month one was about career journey. Month two was about instances of bias. Month three was about inclusive leadership behaviors. And so on. Luna: That structure seems crucial. Without it, I can imagine the conversations staying superficial. 'How was your weekend?' type stuff. Lucas: Exactly. And Apex learned that lesson the hard way in a pilot program the year before, where pairs were given no structure and most relationships fizzled out after two or three meetings. The structured guide made a huge difference. By month four, one MD told the program team that his junior mentor had pointed out how the firm's annual review process implicitly penalized people who took parental leave — because the rating period didn't adjust for time away. That conversation led to a policy change in one entire region. Luna: That's a concrete outcome that goes way beyond just awareness. That's structural change coming from a junior employee's perspective. Lucas: Yeah. And I think that's the real promise of reverse mentoring done well. It's not about checking a box. It's about creating a channel for insider knowledge from people who are closest to the friction points in the system. The junior mentors at Apex also reported that they felt more comfortable raising concerns in other settings after the program — town halls, team meetings, skip-level conversations. They had a new sense of legitimacy. Luna: I can see that. Once you've spent six months telling a managing director 'hey, that thing you said in that meeting might have landed badly,' it's a lot easier to speak up in other contexts. Lucas: Right. And the MDs, for their part, said the program made them more likely to seek out informal input from junior colleagues. One MD said he now makes a point of having coffee with an analyst from a different background every quarter, just to stay grounded. That's a behavioral shift that costs nothing and probably has a huge ripple effect. Luna: So for someone listening who works at a company that doesn't have a formal reverse mentoring program, what's the actionable takeaway here? Lucas: I think there are two paths. One, if you're a junior employee, you could propose a small-scale pilot to your manager or HR team. Point to cases like Apex and emphasize the low cost and the dual benefit. You could even offer to help design the discussion guide. Two, if you're in a leadership position, you don't need to wait for a formal program. You can simply ask a junior colleague from a different background if they'd be willing to have a monthly conversation about their experience. No bureaucracy, no budget. Luna: That's a good point. And if you do that, you're also modeling the behavior for other leaders. Lucas: Exactly. And companies that already have mentorship programs could simply add a reverse mentoring component. It doesn't have to be a standalone initiative. Apex actually integrated it into their existing leadership development track. The MDs who completed the program got credit toward their continuing education requirements. Luna: So it became part of the system rather than a side project. That probably helped with longevity. Lucas: Yeah. And I think that's the key lesson. If you want a diversity initiative to survive leadership changes and budget cuts, it needs to be embedded in something that's already seen as core to the business — like leadership development or performance management. Luna: Okay, so before we wrap, I want to ask you about something you hinted at earlier. You mentioned that the junior mentors got a clearer picture of how decisions are made. Do you think there's a risk that this could backfire — that junior employees might become disillusioned if they see too much of how the sausage gets made? Lucas: That's a fair question. Apex actually asked participants about that. And the data showed the opposite effect. Junior mentors reported higher trust in leadership after the program, not lower. The transparency, even when it revealed messy realities, made the system feel more fair. One analyst said she used to think promotions were random or political. After seeing how her MD wrestled with tough calls, she realized there was more deliberation than she had assumed. Luna: So it demystified the process in a way that actually increased trust. Lucas: Exactly. And I think that's a powerful argument for any company that's worried about transparency. The risk isn't that people will find out the truth. The risk is that they'll imagine something worse. Luna: That's a good line. I might steal that. Lucas: Feel free. So I think reverse mentoring, when done with real structure and genuine intent, is one of the most scalable inclusion tools out there. It costs very little, it builds trust in both directions, and it can generate concrete policy changes. And it puts the people who are closest to the problems in a position to shape the solutions. Luna: And on that note, if you're listening and this episode made you think about your own workplace, maybe it was worth the time you spent with us. If so, and if you'd like to support the show, you can help keep it ad-free and accessible by visiting buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. That's buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Even a small contribution helps us keep doing deep dives like this one. Lucas: Yeah, and we really appreciate that. It's listeners like you who make this possible. So thanks for considering. Luna: Alright, let's get back to something practical. Lucas, what's one thing someone could do tomorrow to start a reverse mentoring relationship informally? Lucas: I'd say identify one junior colleague whose perspective you think you're missing. Send them a short email saying you'd like to learn from their experience. Propose a thirty-minute conversation once a month for three months. Come with specific questions. And then actually listen. That's it. No budget, no approval needed. Luna: Simple and powerful. Thanks Lucas. And thanks to everyone listening. We'll be back next week with another story of inclusion in practice.