Latest / Imperfect Marketing / 234: The SEO Balancing Act: Quality Content vs. AI Overload with Guest Tom Amitay

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234: The SEO Balancing Act: Quality Content vs. AI Overload with Guest Tom Amitay · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Kendra Corman, and today I am joined by Tom Amate.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Did I say that right?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, good, Tom is an expert in marketing automation, boasting over a decade of experience in generating growth for tech companies.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: As the CEO and co-founder of Entail AI, he has assisted companies such as Top10.com, Mayu, Water and Upstep in generating scalable and authentic marketing strategies through content, SEO and automation.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Thanks so much for joining me today.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: It's a pleasure.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and jump right in.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: What are the most common organic marketing mistakes that you're seeing brands make?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: I guess today it's mostly around AI, you know, because that's the hot data, right?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: That's what's trending and I think right now I mean I would expect this to change already, but it still is the case.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I still get emails from some people about that People are just generating a lot of content with AI and you would expect them to understand by now that if you're using, if you're trying to be a big company, want to be a big company, and you're using the same tools exactly like anyone on the street could, then you probably don't have an edge and in marketing you want to get above the noise.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And if you're doing what everybody else is doing, including people who have no means whatsoever, then you're probably doing it wrong and I think that's pretty much the biggest mistake that I see right now brands doing.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying not to use AI in your marketing.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: There's many ways to use AI to get ahead there but if you're just generating cheap content with ChatGPT or any one of the other tools that are using ChatGPT, then you can stop.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I love AI.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of AI.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: It saves me, on average, about 30 hours a week, which is crazy right.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't just have AI generate all your content and just have it say what would you answer this question as, and then just copy and paste it.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: It just you're right, there's no differentiation.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: That's what I keep trying to tell people.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: When they're like I'm just going to have AI do all this for me, it's like no, don't do that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly, I mean you can really use it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I mean everybody almost uses it now and, of course, it's embedded in many of the products that we use, from search to to design and whatever.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: But if all you're bringing to the table is the content that I generated, then you're not bringing much.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: You know, if I can get the same answers on ChatGPT, why would I go to your website?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Why would Google go to your website?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: So just give an example you know like just recently spoke with a company that called Flow Health.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I think they're the largest app for women in the world and they have about 8 million visitors a month like unique to their website and most of it is organic.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: It just comes from their content and a content piece like the lifecycle, like the creation of content piece, from when they start until it's published.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: For them it is about two months.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: If you ask me, that's too long, right, but um, but just to explain, because they are speaking about health related topics.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you wouldn't want to just get the answer from chad gpt, even if 80 percent of it is correct.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: You would want to have a correct answer with like a reputable person, probably a doctor, or like some kind of physician or a nurse or I don't know what the qualification is.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: That has to do with the topic at hand, but that's pretty much the point.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Like you want to have content that provides value, information is everywhere.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: You can find a lot of information on chat gpt.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: But if you ask me about health related topics, I have no idea.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I really have no idea.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't help if I go to chat GPT and I'll like ask some questions, bring some answers.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: There's no value there.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's again.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: It can help speed up a lot of things.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: It can help with an ugly first draft or ideas.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: You can brainstorm with it.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: It's really revolutionizing content marketing.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: But I think you know, again, so many people are using it to their detriment by again just copying and pasting and figuring out that this is going to work and it doesn't.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can also see that, you know, with all the hype in the market and all that, like chgpt is going to destroy google, etc.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Etc.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Google hasn't, hasn't been affected by it, almost you know.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, they haven't lost traffic because of chgpt.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Chgpt kind of like flatlined, I mean.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: So we, we are using chgpt.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: It is great.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's not replacing google, it's it's something new.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know, there's, there's like you know, like social media has different platforms for different people, different needs, et cetera, preferences and so on.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: So chat GPT is more like an assistant.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: It doesn't replace search, for example.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, so there's many ways of using it, but let's not use it wrong, you know.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't replace search and it doesn't replace you your experience and your expertise and your knowledge and everything else that goes with it, right?
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's really important.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: So, if somebody is looking to prioritize SEO, organic marketing, what are you recommending that they do?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: So I mean SEO I always say is divided into, like in general, you can divide it into two, okay, or let's say say, three.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: One is you have to have a proper website, okay.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: You can't just do seo these days.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: You can't rank for, like, a competitive topic if you don't have a proper website.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: You can't rank with just a landing page.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, check out almost every search that you do the websites that rank are reputable websites, okay.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: So first of all, you have to have a proper website, then you have have to make sure that this website is built correctly, technically, etc.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: This is the technical side of SEO.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Both of these things, I would say, are about 10 to 20% of your SEO efforts.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: All the rest is content.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: All the rest is content.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: There are other signals, like if you really have a very good brand, you know, and there's signals on social media and links, et cetera.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: You know, if you reach that point where you're like a very big brand, you probably also have content.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen any significant website that doesn't have a blog.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen till now.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it's mostly about content.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: So you need to create a lot of content.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, use AI, it's great, but the content has to be high quality, especially now.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: If we had an inflation of content before Chachipiti, now it's a hyperinflation of content.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: So you need to go for quality, go for gold, don't go for printed money.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, you need to really have goals.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: So today, in order to succeed in SEO, you need to create a lot of content and your content has to be super high quality.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Otherwise it's not helpful.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: If it's not helpful, google is probably not going to index it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're going to index it now, but they won't index it in the future, and SEO is a long-term game.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's pretty much.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: 80% of the work is content.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: No, that makes a lot of sense.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I've been listening to so many people talking about social media and how much content you have to be creating and, like one of my clients was telling me that they wanna do more social media and I said great.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I said you need to be doing seven to 15 reels and stories a week and they're like well, that's a lot of work.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Like yeah because so so many people are creating so much content.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I think with AI that's sort of bland, that in order to stand out a little bit in the noise, you actually have to create value added content, and you've got to create a lot of it.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Like you need to be publishing either often or really thorough in depth content, you know.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: But again, all of it has to be quality and that's the key.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a full-time job it isn't, and that's that's really the influencer economy that we're seeing.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: You know where we're just, you know, just boring content doesn't cut it anymore and you need to bring yourself.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: And that's what's so difficult for businesses, because today, as an individual, you have more power than than the big brands.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Because for the big brands, the challenge really is that they're competing with influencers.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, when it comes to paid, they're competing with big brands, you know.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: So they're going like you know, they know what they're doing there, okay, like they're fighting with their equals in a way.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: But then on social media and it becomes more and more also in SEO they're not competing with themselves, like with their peers, they're competing with individuals, people with expertise, with charisma, with, like that are willing to put in the time and the effort.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Most of the influencers are not making money.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: You know, just maybe the 1%, most of them aren't making money, just spending their time.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: And for the big brands, in order to compete with influencers, they need to bring in the expertise and the charisma and pretty much the set of skills that their C-level have.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: And these people are too busy, their time is too expensive, etc.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: So they can't really compete with influencers.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: So they go and they buy the traffic from the influencers.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: They pay influencers.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: This is paid just like any other form of paid marketing Super expensive, by the way, can't guarantee results, not very predictable.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of skill to turn influencer marketing into a predictable channel for your business.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: So that's really the challenge.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Influencers are basically taking over in terms of content creation and all the traffic.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: That is not just personal content stuff, and brands either need to buy from them or on very, very, very rare occasions you can see brands that create content at the level that can compete with influencers.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Usually it's going to be quite expensive for them.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I just saw yesterday Expedia's YouTube channel.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I mean they're creating like super high quality videos.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I was surprised and I'm kind of thinking about that.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Are they seeing ROI from that?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Because you know like they're showing what was it?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, travel in Portugal, I think it was, and about the cuisine in Portugal and all that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I mean interesting, pretty good, the video itself okay, but I'm thinking, no, expedia, there's no call to action there.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: This doesn't make me go and buy a flight ticket off of Expedia, because I saw the video.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: It's a brand move okay, and it's quite expensive, and connecting that to ROI is close to impossible.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So that's a huge public company et cetera.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: But for other brands to create content like that without really being able to even measure ROI, I mean that's pretty challenging, I'd say.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it definitely is.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I always branded myself as a recession style marketer because I always wanted tactics that were going to drive results and had an ROI and a lot of.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I believed in branding.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I still believe in branding, but investing millions of dollars into branding without any ROI is just.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: It can sometimes be a struggle for me because I really want to see a result right Eventually.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: So let's continue our talk on channels.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: You know we're talking about influencers and we're talking about it's expensive.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We're talking about brand building with potentially, you know, no direct ROI, just a big investment.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: What's one underutilized growth channel that you think more brands should be tapping into?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Utilized.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I can tell you about one channel that we're really focused on, and also one of our new products, is the blog traffic itself.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: What we've realized I mean working with brands, you know, doing organic and all that In the beginning we were just focused on helping brands generate organic traffic through content creation how to scale up the process, how to create quality content and so on.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: But then we've seen I mean, like I said, all the websites pretty much have a blog.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So I would say 70% of the websites start a blog and then they stop because it doesn't work for them.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: The rest continue and maybe 5% generate significant traffic.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: But even the big brands and we're talking like unicorns and companies, like seven-digit brands they don't convert traffic from their blog, or maybe you could say maybe just a little bit.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: They do it for authority, it promotes their brand, et cetera, et cetera.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: They're not converting the traffic.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So you would see brands in insurance, in HR and many, many other fields, like big ones, with hundreds of thousands of visitors to the website and to their blog, I mean, and no conversions.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: And so you invested the money.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: You're getting the traffic.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: You're showing the numbers, basically what they're showing, that, like the reports that they show, usually track positions and so on.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Like we say, you can't go with positions to the supermarket, you know nobody buys position, you can't, you can't sell positions, it's just, it's just a figure, um, but they're not.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: They're not showing conversions and they keep investing in that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: So I would say that's definitely one of the most uh, unleveraged or unrealized channels, because you have a lot of traffic and it can be converted.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: It's just a little bit difficult.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what our product, our new product, solves, but that's, you know, if you already have the traffic converted, you know.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: So that's definitely underutilized.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're creating the content, it should be working for you, right?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: It's not just there to be there.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: The challenge is really where you create a lot of content for SEO, then you need to build authority, and so you cannot just speak about yourself or your brand or your core value proposition, because that's just the bottom of the funnel.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: You need to build authority.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: You need to create content for all the steps of the funnel.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: So, by definition, if that's the funnel, most of your content is at the upper parts of the funnel, where there's more volume, where there's more topics, et cetera, and this content converts less.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: So if you have a lot of traffic to your blog, again by definition it means that you have at a minimum hundreds of pages.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Websites have thousands of pages as well, a lot of which are upper funnel pages where the value, the revenue per user, rpv, the revenue per user is quite low.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So you can't really invest in converting that traffic.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Usually, when companies do conversion rate optimization, they focus on a small number of pages where they send paid traffic to so high traffic small number of pages and they optimize those pages.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: In SEO, you end up with hundreds or thousands of pages and the traffic is distributed across many, many, many different pages.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So you have a lot of pages with little traffic as opposed to small number of pages with a lot of traffic, and the number of potential user journeys on these pages is insane.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: If you ask ChatGPT, if a user journey is five steps and I have 1,000 pages, each page has about 20 or 30 links how many user journeys there are?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: You get to a number with like 10 zeros, I'm sorry.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: So it's impossible to optimize and that's exactly the problem that we're solving because, as I said, it's an untapped traffic source or it's an existing traffic source, more accurately, and companies are just not leveraging it because of that difficulty of having to optimize hundreds or thousands of pages and having to funnel all the traffic towards your conversion pages.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So that's definitely that's really where we're focused on.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, so tell me a little bit more about Entailai and what it is that you're doing with that.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So we say Entailai is about increasing traffic and then converting.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And we're looking at the organic channels because even you know, I just saw this very interesting article channels, because even you know, I just saw this very interesting article this research that they've done like a subsidiary company of SEMrush I think it was They've done research showing that out of 1,000 searches on Google, only about 370 leave Google in the US Numbers very slightly between the US and Europe.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: So let's say 37%, or let's say 73%.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: No, not 73%, it's 63%, right, 63% of the traffic stays on Google, never leaves Google, either clicks an ad or just stops searching or searches again, but doesn't leave Google.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: So you'd say, wow, google is a monopoly and that's true, but Google has probably around 8 to 10 billion searches per day.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Almost 40% of that is still a lot of traffic.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: It is a lot of traffic.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So that's the opportunity and there's a lot of traffic to be, you know, to get from Google.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So we say, like I said, increase traffic, then convert it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: So, as I said, if you have a proper website and it's technically okay, it is mostly about creating content and while most CMS platforms, like content management systems, are built for developers to enable, like building websites easily, whether it's WordPress, shopify and different CMSs that are like headlessms where you can build pages.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: They're built for developers but your content team need the content team ends up working in google docs and it's like all over the place, very difficult to manage.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: So we built a cms plugin.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It connects to any existing cms and it really streamlines all the content creation process from formulating the topics you want to target like we use AI for that to choose the topics, to create outlines for experts.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So we have domain experts that create the content and then we edit the content with AI and then it goes through all the review steps, because serious companies usually have several review steps, several stakeholders that need to approve the content.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: So you have the SEO person and you have the expert and you have the fact checker and the reviewer and the tone checker, et cetera.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So it streamlines all the process through all the stakeholders and then from there it's published directly to your website and streamlining that process enables you to create a lot of high quality at scale while reducing all the friction that creates a lot of extra cost.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: So that's one side of our platform, the CMS plugin.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: The other side is the Intel CRO, intel Conversion Rate Optimization, which is what I said.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You build all this content, you publish all this content, you end up with thousands of pages that you cannot optimize.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: And that's a really, really cool conversion rate optimization software where you can embed widgets with calls to actions in your articles.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: What we've seen is that if you build articles, if the articles are done correctly, okay and you add calls to actions, links, widgets, et cetera, in the text itself, as long as they're relevant, not too salesy, as long as they're relevant, you can easily get above 45% click-through rate from visitor to clicking an item on the page.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And so if you really optimize those pages and you make sure that the calls to actions are relevant to the reader and they send them to the next logical step in their journey towards completing your marketing goal, ie sign up, start a free trial book, a demo, buy a product, etc.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: If you're funneling them to the next step, you can really increase conversions from all that like huge tree of content that you built.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: So one part is the CMS, the other part is the CRO software where you can just embed widgets very, very easily and the system A-B tests those widgets, measures the results and improves conversion rate on the website.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I really like that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I like talking about, you know, embedding things that are relevant, right, and I mean 45% click through rates.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I mean that's huge.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: But if you're creating content and it's relevant and the next link is relevant, you're moving them through the funnel or through their journey with stuff that you've already created.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Stuff that you've already created.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a lot of people create a lot more content than they really need because, again, it's not converting.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And an interesting aspect of it as well is that, you know, I mean, I've done the same, like we all want to do video now, because video is the thing, right?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: The thing is that video and also audio it's much more difficult to drive a person to take an action from a video or an audio.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, you know, let's talk about shorts.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: You know so, then the highest number, the highest roi in terms of views is usually in shorts.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Um, the thing is, the shorts is like popcorn.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, you never just eat one, right?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: So it's built to to get you hooked and to watch another, one, another, one, another one.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: There's almost no opportunities to add links there.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: You know, there's the link in bio.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Who really clicks there?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So if you want to get somebody to watch your video and take an action, usually you'll have to be super interesting and what will happen is you'll get them interested and they'll leave the platform and Google whatever you're selling or promoting.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: They'll Google it and they'll go to your website.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: You'll see an increase in branded searches.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Branded searches the best in terms of conversion.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: But in order to get somebody to leave the platform.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: It's a really hard job.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So you have to reach a lot of people because the conversion rate between viewers to people leaving the platform and Googling your business is quite low, whereas if you look at written content, when you read an article, the behavior is that you click links.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: That's the expected behavior, unlike videos where you just want to sit back and watch or scroll through to the next short right In text, you click links.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Not only that, you click links if the articles are done correctly.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I mean we've seen articles that get over 100% clicks.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Right, people click several links in the article because it's very relevant, because it's very helpful, and so over there it's much easier to get to conversion.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: And what you see is also if you look at let's say, you look at an influencer campaign, so you're selling I know you're selling headphones and you have this in tech influencer that says that your headphones are the best, etc.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: So you'll get a video that got I don't know, like a hundred thousand hits and out of that you'll get maybe like a thousand or two thousand hits on your website.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So just the conversion rate between the views and the website visits is quite low.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And also take into account that that influencer that managed to get like a hundred thousand it's on a bottom of the funnel content had to probably work for a few years creating content that's not bottom of the funnel, that doesn't pay the bills.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And so if you want to own that, that, um, if you want to be that influencer as a brand which you, you should, by the way just take into account that the numbers, if you compare that social media content and SEO, are very favorable towards SEO in terms of ROI.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Get those video views and to get the views that actually convert and send traffic to your website is much more work, much more money than driving traffic through SEO and getting a click on a link to send people further down the funnel.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Very good, very interesting.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I'll definitely be checking out entailai.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: We'll have a link to it in the show notes, so be sure to check it out Now before I let you go, because, again, this has been very interesting.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I love talking about the use of AI correctly.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I love talking about conversions.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I love talking about converting people and moving them through their journey.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: But, before I let you go, this show is called Imperfect Marketing, because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I think it was the first.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: When I just started out, we were building a ride sharing app.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: It was like before Uber and all that and the biggest lesson I mean I've learned a lot from this.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So we built the app and the biggest lesson I mean I've learned a lot from this.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So we built the app and, like, long story short, we built the app.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Then we tried to do this pilot in the community where they kind of drive to the same place and all that.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: And, long story short, nobody used it, not a single person.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, my partner was just showing people how to use it.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: He ended up teaching seniors how to use mobile phones, because that's the people who came up to him.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Nobody used it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And then we just back then I read the Lean Startup it was a thing back then, this book, and it just clicked.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: And then we just did an experiment and we saw we got people to use the product.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: We said, okay, let's change direction, completely change the product Before we do, let's try to get people to sign up to the product.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: We just got them through Facebook groups et cetera, published with this, we do this and that and we published a few links and let's send them to a page where they could sign up.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: And then it said that the server broke down and it's not working, sorry.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: And we saw people signing up and from there we changed everything From there.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: There we learned to first run experiments before we build anything, and we do it till now.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, we test everything, we see the distraction before we build it, and I think that's pretty much a lesson that changed everything I do since.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I love that lesson that is very strong and very powerful, because I just think a lot of people think I'm going to build it and they will come and they don't, because we didn't build something that they could actually use or something they want sometimes and, you know, fingers crossed for the best of us, right?
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Tom, for your time today.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Again, we'll have a link to his company in the show notes, so be sure to check that out.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: In the meantime.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: If you learned anything today, it would really help us out if you were great and subscribe wherever you're listening and watching.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Until next time, have a great rest of your day.