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What Is Fractional Leadership and Why It’s the Future of Real Estate Organizations · Know Like Trust for Real Estate

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is really about ensuring that you have somebody that's not caught up in all the fires and all the gotta minutes and all of the hours and hours and hours of meeting there, it's strategically focused.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just the meetings and just the conversations and just the tasks that will help them solve that problem they were running to work on.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, everyone.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: My guest today is passionate about helping organizations leverage new ways of doing business so they can scale and grow.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: She recently co-authored a white paper called The Shift to Fractional Leadership.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Laura O'Connor is a collaborative strategist who helps businesses scale smart, fast, and with heart.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: She has deep expertise in fractional leadership, which is what we're chatting about today, franchise development, and M&A education.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: She specializes in turning complexity into clarity, whether building
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: onboarding systems, guiding organizational transformation, or training the next generation of leaders.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: She has also been recognized as one of the top 100 women in real estate by housing wire.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: A 2023-Riz Media Newsmaker and a recipient of the Swanipole Power 200 Recognition.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today, Laura and I went deep into the shift to fractional leadership and discussed what it is, why it works, and how small businesses, especially in real estate, can leverage, scale, save, and grow.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Take a listen.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Laura, I'm so excited to talk to you today about your white paper, the shift to fractional leadership.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was really well done, and I can't wait to put in the show notes,
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm excited about it as well.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was, um, it was a lot of fun because it was a collaboration.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I guess we could call it a international collaboration because my co author is from Canada, um, but I also pulled in some some really great resources from T 360's talent division and the entrepreneurs for a dream and a company helps us that out.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was really fun to just work and collaborate and research with a group of dynamic professionals.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: and explore this evolving concept and resource that people are using.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's so interesting both the topic and the timing.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for those people who might not be familiar with it, can you just start off by explaining what fractional leadership is?
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so really it's a paradigm shift in terms of staffing.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a strategic solution to today's complex challenges.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fractional leadership is experience professionals that are providing part-time high-level expertise without the cost of full-time employment.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so builds on the foundation of gig workers, if you're familiar with like five or upwork, um, and then also the world of virtual assistants.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So people, it's become very normalized to hire just for the job or the tasks that you need to fill, um, at certain levels of the organization, but the concept of bringing in people who have traditionally, um, served in the C suite,
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: or upper levels of the or chart in an organization coming in on that same sort of a fractional basis is a new work concept.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least in the real estate industry and some of the other ones I'm working with, although if we get outside of the U.S. into other areas or we get outside of this industry where I've predominantly served
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: it's much more normal to see fractional professionals involved.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I'm part of a group called fractional's United and there's 14,000 over 14,000 members in that group across the globe.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really it's out there.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's still just not as broadly known and
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes even though the fractional executive is fully a meshed with the team and the other full-time people on the team, they may operate a little bit more behind the scenes, which is why I feel like maybe it isn't as broadly recognized.
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I say, so why real estate?
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why real estate now?
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I think our industry is really great that agents take the lead.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are entrepreneurs at heart.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have their arms around their world of buyers and sellers.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they often take the lead and then we see the corporate owner following and then we see the brand following and then we see the technology partners that want to serve them following.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so VAs are virtual assistants have reshaped
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: for a long time now.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then the COVID pandemic completely normalized virtual.
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We saw the gig economy grow from 27.7 million in 2024.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're anticipating, or that it grew to that amount.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me, 27.7 million by 2024.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the global workforce is estimated to be at
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: 8.4 million by 2028.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're seeing this really massive change since COVID and the normalization of virtual.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But real estate specifically has been in a bit of a period of change.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think right we all are a little bit used to seeing layoffs now with some of the larger brands and the technology partners.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: we know now through a lot of research and analysis and watching how that has impacted companies that it is outdated and counterproductive.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if we can develop a workforce model that scales up and down with the market shifts so that we don't have to do those math playoffs, it's really going to help retain that expertise at organizations and our industry of real estate is
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: going to continue to face headwinds.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We know this, right?
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have an inventory shortage that is not going to get solved overnight.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are in the middle still of a number of different debates and lawsuits and challenges around clear cooperation and all these other major components that our industry has stood on are being shaken down and tested and and
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: add on top of that, artificial intelligence and how quickly everything is evolving and adapting and you really start to see how pulling in experts just for the most pressing problem that you have today, maybe there's a new competitor that's entered your market, maybe there's a ship big shift because of a lawsuit or something that's happened and you need to make some quick changes,
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: to solve that change and then leave them even if it's just five hours a month, right?
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you pull them in and they're doing 20 hours a week and helping bring artificial intelligence into your marketing and into your CRM systems and how you're interacting with your prospects.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as you get those things settled, maybe that time drops down and they become more of an advisor, they're just touching base with you on a monthly basis or something, but you can then ramp them back up when the next challenge hits and you have to evolve and adapt.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's never been a better time than with the headwinds and the constant evolution and the
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: opportunities that people are trying to grasp in real estate to start exploring this change from the traditional employment models.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's such an interesting thing and I don't, you know, having worked for a brokerage for a long time and then a large real estate brand as well for a long time, I don't think it would have ever come into the conversation or the idea never would have come across our desk, right?
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it is sort of brilliant, especially when you think of, you know, some of the challenges
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: that brokerages in particular are having.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, but there are so many, right?
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just point it out a bunch of them.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if I'm a brokerage trying to maintain market share, especially an independent brokerage, right?
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't have the power of a larger brand behind me.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the indicators that I should be looking at to determine if a fractional leadership role is would help?
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you can talk to the mid-level leaders in your organization today and see how they're feeling about things because it may not be applicable to you, but what we found when we look at human resource organizations and groups and their studies is that 70% of executives are ill-equipped to develop their mid-level leaders.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they may be fantastic at running their organization, or you may be fantastic at running your organization.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the world is evolving so quickly that while you are busy managing and running all the components that you know you have to take care of to keep your wheels on your bus to keep it moving forward, you need to have while the bus is cleaning down the highway, somebody underneath the hood working on the engine and changing the oil wallets, you know, you can't stop.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they don't have the time to develop those mid-level leaders with some of those skills, like artificial intelligence or like the way that marketing is having to evolve to keep up with the changes in social media and preferences for video and all those other things.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not able to develop your mid-level leaders yourself and then talk to them and say okay management team my core crew right how are you doing because what what the stats show is that 75% of managers are already overwhelmed with their current workload.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds great in theory to say I'm going to take these people out of their daily tasks and I'm going to go get them trained on some of these new things and I've got to get them trained on how we're adjusting or evolving clear cooperation or how we're pulling in AI or how you know any of these different areas but the reality is 75% it.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: free out of four are reporting that they're already overwhelmed just keeping up with their daily tasks.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so much better to bring in somebody that is a specific expert to help both.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bring in that operational support, re-change the structure, and then also train your people, right?
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not just layering on costs that you expect to keep forever.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is about investing somebody in the team, usually for six, 12, 18 months or longer, because they're really going to get involved and understand the inner workings of your organization, and then they're going to make those changes for you and by the way,
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: train your full-time people so that they're better in their job.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're less frustrated.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're less overwhelmed.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, it's a holistic sort of therapy process, if you will.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that because, you know, we know this to be true of broker owners, especially those that are, you know, have more of a mid-sized brokerage.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just, oftentimes, they're even they have their own sales business.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Next level, they're people, they're staff, which is critically important because at the end of the day, those people are serving the agents in the company, those in essence are the clients.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you want your staff to be as educated as nimble as, you know, effective as they absolutely can be and at the same time be able to operate at a higher continued operator higher level.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also good for retention.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would imagine.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're bringing in somebody that has an outside perspective and unlike other full-time executives, your fractional leaders are unencumbered by the need to maintain long-term alliances or navigate delicate internal relationships.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they can identify and recommend necessary changes more decisively.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I find this quite often, right?
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're bringing in somebody that has the decades of experience with tact and navigating those personal sort of delicate situations in a way that they can flush out the problem that's holding your company back.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might be a person, it might be a process.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can start to pull out information from staff that might be sitting back and feeling like, no matter what they say, it's not going to matter anyway.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you're really able to start working around those dynamics that often hold back an organization because people want to maintain their friendships.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're all in real estate because it's a relationship business at some point we were all really hyper focused on that.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in,
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to lose that, but you definitely need to bring it outside perspectives that can help you shake up and break down some of those walls and barriers and old static information that's holding you back.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's equally important to note that fractional leaders are not caught up in the cycle of putting out fires.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they operate with clear direction and objectives that allows them to stay hyper-focused on the tasks that will drive results.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: The companies that have been most resisted when I approach them with doing fractional work versus coming on full time, it's because they're afraid of that responsibility because there is a responsibility from the organization to clearly define.
• 13:45
  [UNKNOWN]: Yes.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is my pain point.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is what we need to work to solve.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this is the time frame we want to do it in, right?
• 13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a great fractional professional is going to guide you through that process.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to ask the questions that are going to uncover what needs to be solved first, because this isn't a band-aid operation.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is digging into the root cause and solving the long, pervasive issues that have been there.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are used to wearing a lot of hats, right?
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then in the real estate industry, everybody sort of like these great entrepreneurial and excited minds that go out and model solve problems, but they also don't like constraints.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so having to take responsibility to ensure that I've hired this person for this specific task.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in respect those boundaries, and when they, you know, push back and say, no, I'm not going to go help with your personal schedule, because that is what I was brought here for, right?
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a separate engagement and let me refer you to somebody because I do do that quite often.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is, it is really about ensuring that you have somebody that's not caught up in all the fires and all the got a minute and all of the, you know, hours and hours and hours of meeting there.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just the meetings and just the conversations and just the tasks that will help them solve that problem they were brought into work on.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So okay, so it sounds brilliant.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now let's talk about putting it into practice.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a broker owner.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You had this great example in in the white paper of a broker owner or brokerage that was a luxury brokerage they wanted to next level their their presence in the market.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they hired a fractional CMO, talk to me about that process and the comparison of hiring versus hiring a fractional and sort of what the result was.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: sure.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I feel almost like this would be one of those funny, like, reverse interviews, because Christina, aren't you in fact?
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yes, yes, you do some fractional marketing things, right?
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I know that we have our, um, we have our, our paper that we put together, and there are still many different ways that it can be pulled together or, um, approach depending on the size of the company and the problems or the needs that they have.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'll just cover
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't a real specific example, but it was pulling in from, you know, four or five different engagements in sort of creating a comprehensive snapshot of what that could look like.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was through Cistado.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Cistado is a company that historically has provided global support personnel or virtual assistance from both stateside or other other areas across the globe.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they had started branching out into the fractional space.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've done some work that had placements through them.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so in this example, in their traditional approach, they would have hired a full-time cheese marketing officer at around 150,000.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, with the modern approach, they're hiring somebody for 60,000, so already we see some sort of a cost savings there.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to build down an entire team because they were going to on, you know, take what have been done outside of the organization previously and start creating and building it internally to take better ownership of that process, but rather than hiring three marketing hires at a cost of 180,
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: They hire some managed services through a virtual assistance staffing platform or 60,000.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: They can keep the strategy and execution budget relatively the same and they have some existing marketing team members that will stay the same in cost, but you have to realize that those team members are going to be developing their skills under this expert leader that they're building in so that they have their better capacity to do their job and have more impact.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the CMO fractional person is there for the first three months.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Highly engaged, and then they moved to just a weekly hours of support and guidance to keep sort of directing.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they're not leaving.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're just shifting and evolving.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe they reach a point where they have now brought in a fractional AI technology specialist.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the CMO hours might go up again as they start to evolve and layer in these different ways
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the benefit of that then, right?
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we look at total cost.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a $240,000 savings.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, they're getting better results because that fractional CMO was passed with a very specific thing.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: building out this marketing managed service team of VA is making sure they understand exactly what their roles are for design, for the automation components, for the other strategic
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they step back and the fee and the cost drops down, until that moment that there's another flare up or change your unexpected market shift or unexpected competitor, new opportunity that they have to stand through M&A growth and so they step back in.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: and of by themselves more intensely for a period of time and then so it's a wonderful way to sort of evolve an ebb and flow.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anna, so on you talked three months and kind of you know pulling back a little bit on average.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: how long is a fractional leader, you know, intensely involved?
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it three months?
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it six months?
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's typically longer unless they have something like this where it's a very specific.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're going to be setting up managed services through VA component and we want you to come in and help direct them and establish this and set it up.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I typically will recommend that we have a 30 day onboarding period we're all in doing is interviewing and talking to key members.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So because I am traditionally operationally focused, I really need to get to know everybody across.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: marketing, technology, finance, you know, their sales, all of the different departments, because operations is what like sinks it all together.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the onboarding process can be a little bit faster if it is a very specific like marketing engagement or technology engagement or, you know, there's like a specific scope.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the I typically send up at least 30 days just doing interviews and calls and getting to know the people and asking questions and gaining insights.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then I have a 30 day period where I am building out proposals and pathways of which direction we can take to have the most impact upfront and where I think the root causes.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: that will be valuable and used by that organization for years to come.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have that interview and exploration process.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then a four month, I always do a minimum six months just because I feel like it takes me that long to have a certain opinion impact and to see the return for the money they've invested.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we sit down and discuss, like, do we need more hours, do we need less hours, do we want to move into this next thing, you know, piece of the engagement, have that sort of reset for another six months.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you need that much time just to sort of, you know, find the door kind of thing.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so you actually talk about a 90 day test engagement as a starting point.
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's like the three months.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you were just talking about or can you kind of explain with that?
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, I'll ask for a six month commitment because the concept is new for people.
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them just aren't quite there yet, right?
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in 90 days, a fractional professional can come in, do those interviews, understand the team, start to assess and provide different
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they could either go outside and hire somebody different or they could decide that they don't have the, you know, time or resources, but at least they have something that is a solid playbook that they could either try to implement and carry out with their existing team and infrastructure.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or it will give them that vision of what's well, so that they can sort of select so I try to give them three or four different.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: pathways that they could choose to follow and expand to go to the next level and hopefully by the end of that 90 days they've already seen that the benefit of having somebody with the outside perspective and having worked at an executive level across the number of different companies can bring to the table that is fresh and new and you know really helping them prepare to evolve
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That makes a lot of sense.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are the most common mistakes you see companies make when it comes to hiring a fractional leader?
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, if that's optional leader isn't stepping into a leadership role right out of the gate, helping guide the conversation, helping explain the process, then they should have some red flakes.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: right because the difference between a consultant and a fractional one might be right for you and the other not right but you should be able to tell a difference from the very first conversation.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So are they really just focused on what do you want me to show up and do or are they asking the questions of where are you at today?
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are you hoping to get out of this right?
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a different level in how you anticipate that professional being embedded with the team?
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: If they're fractional, they will be at key meetings, they will be serving more as an advisor and really a meshed, whereas a consultant is
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're telling them exactly, you know, that it's like a very structured sort of set thing.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: There isn't that sort of creativity and curiosity component.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is solving one specific thing.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You will definitely have an end date with a consultant, a fractional leader, you should have a more broader scope, which is, here's what we're gonna do in our first 90 days or our first six months, but there isn't a defined like in and on this date.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is a, we renew and renegotiate and discuss for what that next six months look like, right?
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, a consultant can be full-time.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: A fractional is typically not.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have somebody that is coming into the fractional and saying, I'm going to be 40 hours a week, I just, I don't know that I see that as the best use of the concept.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it should be even if it's an intensive 20 or 30 hours a week for a while, because you're trying to watch something you're getting something going.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the concept should be articulated upfront that it is a, um, it can flow up and down and up and down with the hours based on the needs of the organization.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody's coming in and saying, I'm going to be fractional and I'm going to need to give me 40 hours a week and it's going to be, you know, then.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: that's really not the test round.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Have I seen people move into full time and switch to that W2 and switch to the benefits package, it's absolutely right?
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think that we've all seen that the beauty of it is think of it as almost a testing ground to see if somebody's that right fit.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: your organizational values say, I only want people that I know are 100% here with me all the time.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can start with fractional and articulate.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: My goal would be to see you move into a full-time W2 role with all of the other perks and benefits in the full benefit package.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: As long as you're articulating that up front because there are some people that are not interested in that like I would never see never to it But the reality is if you look at my resume every three years.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've moved because I love to get into things Fix all of the structural foundation issues that have existed for a long time and then they're like oh, they're so great And they start like trying to have me fill in and all these other just like let's keep her here and busy Well, I don't want to just keep this yet.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be effective.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So like
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: For some people, fractional is a way for them to provide the most value that they can at these stress points, and then move on to the next pressing problem.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not always very good at just sort of sitting and punching a clock and like trying to fill their day and with meetings, right?
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a couple other quick things, a fractional executive camera present the company.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And quite often do.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they would still, you know, like this might be an interim person.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had somebody leave this key role.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're bringing in this interim fractional leader.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they may speak on behalf of the company.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They may represent the company in meetings with internal staff.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they will most likely lead a team.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they will have other people within the organization that they are directing because they're not going to be doing the nuts and bolts, but they will be directing.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: the core people in your team because that's part of the process.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're training your team to be better at their jobs, bringing in that outside expertise to help with the coaching along the way.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So brilliant.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if I wanted to hire a professional leader, where would I go?
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: How would I find one?
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I mentioned a couple of my partners that participated in the paper.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a T3 talent does not currently do fractional placements, but they have a broad list of people that they can refer to, right?
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if somebody comes in looking for a W2 and is something they want to explore, or if they have,
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: a group that hires them to fill a strategic vacancy, then they may explore having fractional, so there's some resources there through a T360 talent division in Dan Bro.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I work with a group called the Entrepreneurs Boardroom that is led by Sajang Patel, and he has some course staff that are W2 that he places with fractional, but then he has people like me who are independent,
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: fractional professionals that are part of his boardroom.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he has a wide net of people who are operating in this capacity who may not want to raise a big flag and shout it from the top of the mountain, but they have 20, 30 years experience, 70s executive leadership roles, and they're sort of one step.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: out towards retirement, but still wanting to really contribute value where they can.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he plugs them in.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He likes to work on like these transition or turn around sort of things so you have a key person that's left in rather than filling that with another body and that's cost for a full-time person.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He can bring in a team of maybe six people.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: clean up, reassess, rebuild, and then when they get ready to hire for that spot that was vacated, that team steps out, and that person steps into a whole different world than the one that the last person must.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because all these things have been restructured, the foundation is there, they can hit the ground running and be successful in their new role, and it gives that company time to find the ideal and perfect leader for that vacancy.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's been really effective in that,
• 29:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And let's hear what else to start.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned them already.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They took up with the virtual staffing, but they have found that it's more effective, especially if they're building out a large team, a virtual customer support or marketing support or technology support, that they have at least for a period of six months, a fractional executive to help establish that department and those teams and oversee them and make sure that it's the positive experience across the board.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I, I, I love referring people, I have spent too many years, you know, being the president or the leader of a company and having to wear all the hats and now I know like I love operations like, yeah, I love the things that most people in this industry don't want to do.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if there aren't many people out there like me, they're like, oh, I want to take it with a number of super deep and like figure out why the data is in silos and not getting where it needs to be.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So why would I spend my time on marketing functions, even if I have done them or the financial functions, even if I've done them when I know amazing professionals that I can refer to.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's yeah.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the concept behind my company, let go Cocoa is just the consultants collaborative and letting go of the stuff you don't want to do.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have, um, I enjoy referring people as much as I enjoy working with them.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is awesome.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always talking about lean into your zone of genius and delegate everything out outsource everything because you're not going to be good at it anyways, so you might as well do what you love right that's right okay, so as we wrap up, I have a couple of rapid fire questions for you and you're ready I think so what's a leadership trait that you think is undervalued today listening.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: That one's a really good, I mean, yes.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, simple.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 31:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing you wish more brokers or business owners understood about transformation.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is okay to ask for help.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: The most rewarding part of the work that you're doing right now.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow, the most rewarding, there's so many.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say just the expansion of my sphere in network.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got to meet so many incredible people, right?
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like because I've not stuck in this one bubble of one organization, like just having that opportunity to connect, I made a hundred phone calls in 90 days to different executives and many people across the industry.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was so fun, like hearing what they see as their opportunity areas and the challenges and just having that ability to be really high level and understand all these different perspectives, it's been really incredibly rewarding.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's, and representing yourself the whole way.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where can people find you?
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: LinkedIn is always the easiest and then I have a link from there to my individual sites and pages.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will admit, Christine, I need to probably hire you because my business has been predominantly, as I've said, my sphere in my referrals, from other people and working with a few partners.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I've been very lazy about my online presence, but
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: LinkedIn is always good and I do have, although it's clunky and ugly, there is a wonderful way that you can connect and reach me through that.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll definitely have to cook talk after this.
• 32:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing I want to ask you is to finish this sentence.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: No like trust is necessary.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's everything you're doing right now, right?
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the foundation of the real estate industry.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not that I only work in real estate, and I think if you talk to people in a construction industry and the virtual staffing industry, like all these other ones that I'm working, it still all comes out of the same thing, which is we are humans.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you can have amazing technology and incredible systems.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you don't have the people that are really committed to that process, to that company, to that technology, it's not going to work.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we should be able to know why I can trust the people that we spend our time with.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have been a love working.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always have, I mean, that son is great and I let the village raise him and his fabulous because of it because I didn't want to completely step out of working at any point in my life.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I spend more time with work people than I do family people.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's really important to know like and trust the people that we interact with and waste, you know, not waste this evening so that we're not wasting our precious minutes and hours on this.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: the people that we're investing our time.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that comes with age Laura, it's like somehow we had to, you know, get through those early years of growing our careers to really understand, you know, it's really okay to spend your time at work with people that you know, like interest, because that's what makes it all fun.
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And don't you see that as when I look at the people who have intentionally moved into fractional roles or building their own companies, whether it's consulting or fractional, it's because they've just said, I want to have the power of choice.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's selecting who I spend my time with and I don't want to be at the whim of, you know, somebody who's seeing these interactions or relationships or these sort of things that are not productive for my mental health or, you know, really, it all stems into physical and everything it's trickle down.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, to be able to select who we invest our time and energy, love, and care,
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, thanks so much for tuning in.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I highly encourage you to follow Laura on LinkedIn and check out her full white paper at the link in the show notes.
• 35:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to make sure you never miss another episode of the No Like Trust for Real Estate podcast, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter, the Sunbeam, go to postadmeamcreative.com and sign up.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or, if you're interested in working with me, email me at Christine at postadmeamcreative.com.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to hear from you.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again for tuning in and I'll see you next time.