Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 383. I Was a Marriage Therapist & Still Couldn’t Prevent Divorce | Why Knowing Better Isn’t Enough

Transcript

383. I Was a Marriage Therapist & Still Couldn’t Prevent Divorce | Why Knowing Better Isn’t Enough · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Darlings.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wearing a very special outfit today.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, do you tell?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's my hypercolor t-shirt.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think any of do you think any of our listeners remember hypercolor from the 80s?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Was it the 80s?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be the 80s.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the height of fashion when I was in middle school.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that was the 90s.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, as we so often do in this program, talk about childhood wounds.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: On retreat, I talked about never having a hypercolor shirt as a kiddo.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the women on retreat sourced like the last remaining hypercolor shirt, I'm sure, in the entire world and shipped it to me.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: How beautiful is that?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love the color too.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's so pretty.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's like this delicious purple.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if this shirt will ever make it to Instagram, like fingers crossed, but it's amazing.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a true gift, like to be seen and to be like, that's what we do, right?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we do.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, love.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorcee.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so today's episode is spicy in a way that it is going to be deeply personal.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: It starts out as deeply personal to me, but we'll we'll all get in on it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I've really been thinking about how I was already a trained marriage and family therapist when I got divorced.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I've mentioned it a lot on this podcast, usually in the context of how embarrassing that was.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Feeling a sense of security and well-being in the world around you.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like it they're just not the same things.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I I have never been struck by that idea that I was trained and still couldn't save my marriage.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: As I have been this last week.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely post-divorce, I went through periods where I would go get self-help books or I would join a women's group or um more like a self-help group type of a thing.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where it was just like processing and saying things out loud, talking, talking, talking.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then it it's like it's like the people that are Christians that go to church on Sunday and then act like assholes the rest of the week, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have that group of people, but it's the same thing.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like for me, I definitely got stuck in this.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to do all the right things.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second I would step out the door, I would just revert to my same old shit, same old tactics.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would sit there in that cycle.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I did, I sat in it for years.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't landing for me.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: My brain was still choosing the familiar all the time for years.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I relate to that so much, it wasn't landing.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason it wasn't landing was because I was afraid to dig in.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was afraid to take the plunge into recovering.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was afraid to try the different types of therapy.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was afraid to engage.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: There was something about after getting divorced that all of a sudden it felt like I had nothing to lose.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, gonna do all the things.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it came from a place of desperation to not repeat the same mistake.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't landing for me.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is for me, because I was too afraid to surrender into the journey of practicing versus knowing.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was about being in straight survival mode.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a single mom, and I I hear our women say this a lot, but when you're responsible for other people too, from from my standpoint, it's like I couldn't afford to lose my mind.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't afford to open the floodgates of what stood on the other side of my pain because I was afraid of getting stuck there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was afraid of going crazy.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was afraid of losing custody of her, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I couldn't hold, like I had some terrible.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: There it is right there.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm afraid I'm gonna lose lose control, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So okay, so Tiffany, what you just shared is, I think, very similar to what I shared.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: You had this fear that as a single mom, you were going to lose it if you did some sort of healing work, that you weren't going to be able to take care of yourself or her if you did the healing work.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: But we work with single moms.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: And is that actually what happens?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Reflect on this was the fear you had.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: This is the story you were telling yourself.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this is actually what women who walk this path experience.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, it was because I had created a village of people who couldn't hold space.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I created a village of people who only loved the fun, exciting Tiffany, the one where my firefighters were firefighting and I was numbing.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, again, I was the party girl, the club girl.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was always out drinking and having a good time.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those were not the kind of friends that I was gonna be able to call up on a random Tuesday and hold space for me.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: They were gonna be like, well, let's go fucking drink then.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go party girl.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go, you know, that type, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I had no one to really hold me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yes, I had my parents and my family, but I was so worried that um they were gonna be so worried about me that it's like I filtered what I told them because at the end of the day, I knew they were already worried about me because I had moved further away from them in divorce.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm gonna do this on my own.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I want.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Da-da-da.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I felt bad coming back to the table and struggling or saying, hey, I'm having a really hard time.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm really lonely, I'm really sad, blah, blah, blah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: The difference in the women that we work with in program is that there is that safe space to land with us.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: They do have us who can hold space for them, who can come to the table and be very vulnerable with them.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: They can be vulnerable with us.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just such a good feeling to have that village, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had none of that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I really had none of that.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, but it was my fault, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to allow people that close.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was scary to me to allow.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: What about you, Joy?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: What the idea, you know, that understanding something isn't the same as living it.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: What's your sort of aha moment about that?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Relate to that for sure.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You have, you know, you shouldn't drink, but you still reach for it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know you shouldn't do squirrel, but you still do it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, there's there's a difference in having the capacity to integrate and actually integrate.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh that let me say that differently.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: There, there's a difference in I didn't have capacity to choose differently in certain seasons of my life in terms of I know I shouldn't, but it's take for eating, for example, or you know, doom scrolling.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know in the long run it hurts my progress, but it's literally what I can do at this moment.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so making increasing your capacity is what helps you be able to integrate.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a beautiful concept.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're pointing out some very specific behaviors that most of us get bogged out in, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's some sort of escapism, yeah, that we know is not good for us, but we do it anyways, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then you talk about this beautiful concept of capacity.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that that lands for our listeners, for anybody who doesn't follow Raquel the capacity expert.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's this amazing therapist on Instagram.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I get her newsletter also, and I know she's teaching people about capacity.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it is what we see as the byproduct of healing, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: When you release body, mind, and spirit, when you release, when you let go, when you put things down, it could be toxins, it could be toxic beliefs, it could be toxic, you know, burdens, tox, literal, yeah, literal, actual toxins.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when you release your burdens, whether they're physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual, your capacity improves.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: But the process of expanding your capacity is not based on knowledge.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it starts with knowledge, perhaps, right?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: It starts with learning, oh, cigarettes cause cancer, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like when our grandparents were smoking, they didn't know yet that cigarettes caused cancer.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it does begin with education.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge part, right?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Going to therapy, learning the things, understanding the framework, knowing that something is toxic or harming versus helping is step one.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: But then what actually increases the capacity, that's sort of the mystery that I think most of our listeners really struggle with is why isn't it landing?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Why isn't therapy creating the movement?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever caught yourselves giving advice that you couldn't quite yet follow yourself?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_04: All the time.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: All the time.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: That sort of feels like the epitome of be me being a marriage therapist and getting divorced.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much easier to uh um spot it in someone else, like um, right, because we're our own best shield.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's harder for us to see it within ourselves for sure.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you think this happens on the internet with influencers of any type, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me give an example.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: I saw a woman, this was like a couple of years ago, who was dying on the hill that if you took care of the mitochondria in your body, you would always have vibrant health.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: That mitochondria are the building blocks of health.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's true, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like mitochondria are, in fact, some of the building blocks of health.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then she got really, really, really sick.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it forced her to reevaluate uh, you know, what are actually at the building blocks of health and not taking into consideration, right, all the other pieces, mental, emotional, spiritual pieces that can absolutely tank the effectiveness of the mitochondria.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So where do you see this happening on the internet where people are giving advice about health that is not complete, is not holistically vetted, is not um well practiced, maybe, or well embodied, maybe that's a you know, more well said.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: People who are giving advice on the internet that maybe they're not actually following or embodying or haven't fully vetted.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, my algorithm is um sourdough and mountains as well.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sourdough and mountains.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's right.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's um I think social media plays a beautiful role in our society, but I think if you're going to social media for advice, it would help to understand that nobody is.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if there's anybody out there that is perfect at what we're talking about.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like you having you listening to your own advice across the board.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need to have a filter when you're going into social media for therapy content that they're just human beings too.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: As Don says it in a meat meat suit, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like people in a meat suit, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So like listen to what they have to say.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably very beautiful, but understand that they're in a meat suit too.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't put them up on a right.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So well said, we put people on such pedestals.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's and and our codependency loves to do that, right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, and and I would guess that some of our listeners do that with us too, like thinking that we're some sort of magical unicorn creatures, and we are.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I remember like the morning.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so for an example, I'm obsessed with jelly roll and bunny, right?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The morning that they announced their divorce, I remember Joy texted me and she was like, Oh my God.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was really sad.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my God.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember like with us growing up before there was social media, there started to be twin with reality TV, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like John and Kate plus eight and like all these bullshit married couples that like said that they have this beautiful life together.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like you look at most of them and like their life is shit, you know, like most of all of them are divorced.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what people need to realize is again, Joanne, you said it and I was gonna say it too.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can all be striving for something, but it doesn't mean that we're perfect.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Even the people who are influencers, like I can sit here and preach health and wellness, and I'm gonna tell you, I pounded two greasy ass pieces of pizza last night, like straight up Italian pizza that like bled through the bottom of the box.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was delicious.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, like again, I would argue that is health and wellness.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's delicious, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, but for me, it's like, yes, I think that people put these people up on pedestals and they act like it's perfection and they act like nothing else.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell my clients all the time, it is not about perfection, it is about progress.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: There is going to be relapse, there is going to be regression, but there has to be growth on the other side of that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because putting people on pedestals and buying into a particular, like perfect aesthetic, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Or like uh quick fix or an easy thing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it reinforces this idea that we're gonna get to a place where we're not gonna have these big problems anymore.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I love yeah, I love what was just said.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like people, people you see what people want you to see.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like Jelly Roll and Bunny, like they portray this perfect, beautiful, blended, like, right.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: But in reality, behind closed doors, it wasn't that way.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So your perception is not necessarily the real the reality.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of that erodes our own self-trust, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Our own somatic awareness, our own awareness of what our bodies are telling us along the way.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think we love to be sold a fairy tale.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like we do.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's that Disney shit, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like we all grew up on it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: We want to believe that there's some happily ever after where we're never gonna have to try again.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna get to this, like, like healing is a destination, which is a fucking joke, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what people think.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's this destination where we're not gonna hurt anymore.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Have y'all seen somebody sent me this weekend this real?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I it is like a show that they're making with actresses we know about like the real housewives of Disney princesses.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I cackled.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was like Jasmine and Aladdin were poor because they ran out of wishes and he uses third one to get a blowjob from someone.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was like ridiculous.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like none of the real housewives are married.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you look at most of the franchises on there now, like they're all divorced.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're all divorced.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: So when you think about moving from insight to embodiment or integration or application or it landing or however the crap you want to say that, um, two questions.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the things that actually helped it move from your head into your nervous system?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what improves capacity, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then how did you see your relationship start to change as you were moving it from your head into your nervous system?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I, the, the people that really helped pivot me the most in the beginning of my healing journey were two people that that wasn't their original intent in my life.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: One was a boss and one was a person that I was having a casual relationship with.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they both, through accountability, because here's the thing when Tiffany is an ego state, nobody, nobody challenges me.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I come off as very confident, very self-assured.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of people that would talk back to me.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of people that would challenge what I was doing that would say, Hey, your drinking's a problem, or hey, I think you're clubbing too much.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody would say shit like that to me because they just felt like I had it all under control.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just her and she's fine and whatever.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my boss, um, I would go out and party, party, party.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would spend my lunch breaks in my car sleeping or in one of my boss's offices sleeping on the couch while they were out eating, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and finally one day my boss brought me into his office and he said, if you do not calm down whatever is happening in your life, you are going to fuck up everything in your career that you're trying to work for to support your daughter.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that really blew me away because I didn't ask him for that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to hear that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was really pissed that he had that conversation with me.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, How dare you?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you don't know anything about me.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just tired, like all these excuses, right?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second one was the guy that I was having the casual relationship with that I was very clear about in the beginning of what I wanted from him and that it would never go any further.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when we were together over Valentine's Day, he had bought me something and I had given it back to him.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he had said, you know, he's the one that sent me the three-page text that said, You're the most cold-hearted person I've ever met.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're never going to be able to experience love.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're never going to be able to let it in.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I understand what you told me in the beginning, but there's clearly feelings here.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you can't see that, it was awful.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was for me, it took people getting in my face and literally holding me accountable, yes, to say you are out of control, you are self-destructing, and you are hurting other people and you need to get out of your own way and take a break.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And those two people helped really start my healing journey, where you know, I went on a path of celibacy and sobriety for quite a long time.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was held so beautifully by so many people that I was able to um kind of work my way through it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I had full support of my church, um, my friends.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's it was just so beautiful how my community held me at that time.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say that it became one of those things where you either joined me in this glow-up or you didn't.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like the family that I lost, the friends that I lost, because it was very it became very polarizing.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: You either joined me or you're before and after.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Before and after, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm either here for it or I'm not.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's that.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and it it became very clear on who was coming to the table and who wasn't.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, it was during COVID, so I couldn't go sit on my friend's couch.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was very, um, it was very isolating in some ways, but it was so I got to kind of cocoon in my little world and I didn't have to, you know, like um perform in in ways.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't I, you know, I I wasn't working at the time because of COVID.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's just it's one of those things where my friends became with me or against me.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was no there there was no middle surface friends, you know what I mean?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's like we're going on this journey.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you actually told me at the time, um, you know, you'll you're gonna lose friends because some people can't.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have capacity, they don't have the ability to hold space.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really scary part of the journey for women when they start to realize that they're either about to lose or are losing people, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: It causes us to punt to pump the brakes because especially when we're processing loss, when we're right, moving through the things we're grieving, it just becomes that much more to grieve.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think that's so much of what letting go is, right?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: What about more modern examples of like going like, oh, like something moving from a knowledge base into the body?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like one I drill a lot is uh, you know, with the women we work with, with our families, like name it right, is like everything is just a frequency.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is just a frequency.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's like once you see that pattern enough, it's like, oh, I just need to identify this frequency and uh get busy shifting it, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what are some modern examples for either of you where you something moved from knowledge to taking root in your nervous system?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: What came to mind was drinking.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a socially acceptable, b, um, you know, like it's like bougie to have a glass of wine at the end of the night and just like relax a little bit, right?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when I started wearing a Fitbit and it started tracking my sleep, I could see in real time data that, oh no, my it affects my sleep.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it, it's a, it's like a tangible data point that's not necessarily like you can't argue with um alcohol affects your sleep, it affects your body.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's just like one glass of wine, it has, it's not that great for you.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: It might be great for that moment, but in reality, if you scope out the full picture.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great example.
• 24:03
  unknown: Mm-hmm.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm re recognizing at this point in my life is there's a certain kind of aliveness that I am chasing from my life, meaning present experiences that involve me being very much in self and present.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why hiking has been a huge thing for me.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I am in the woods, I don't have to be speaking.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can just be around a group of women and I'm good.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm completely in self.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the more healed that I have gotten, the more I want to feel like that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's chasing the feeling of being present in my body with myself and connected.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's my new high.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's my yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Feeling safe, secure, alive in your body.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, ladies, what I'm starting to hear unfold is that maybe we all had sort of a red line in life, like where life gave us back, where it wasn't worth it to keep living in the way where we were maybe comfortably numb.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or for me, I felt like I was running away from monsters all the time.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, trying to run towards this idea of perfection that never existed, or this idea of this fantasy life, right?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: That never existed.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: But if I checked all the boxes and I did all the things, you know, it would turn out okay, right.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out that that wasn't embodied, that um that if you if I had a flip-top head and you had flipped it open and you had looked inside of there, underneath the what I was presenting to myself and to the world, right, was that I had a lot of knowledge and a lot of control.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but but inside I was really very, very, very, very, very, very scared.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And very, very uncertain and very, very not sure that I was good enough or worthy or safe or any of the things, right?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so divorce for me, although I was already a marriage and family therapist, I had armed myself with knowledge, was sort of that litmus test, that line of accountability for me that said, like, well, knowledge and control didn't solve it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And those were my main strategies.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now what?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so perhaps each woman in this room and listening has their own strategy that they've been maintaining all this time to get from point A to point B of life, and they're just sort of learning via divorce that their strategy maybe isn't as effective as they wanted it to be or thought it was.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so looking back, what do you wish someone had told you about your healing?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: That the education, the therapy, or the self-help books didn't uh tell you, that the podcasts didn't tell you, the sermons didn't tell you, the books didn't tell you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: What do you what is if you could go back and tell your past self a piece of feedback?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: What do you wish?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: What do you wish?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe somebody did tell you, but it could didn't make sense then.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that, you know, it's said, but I don't think it's integrated, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's that whole thing, like saying yes to yourself, choosing yourself is so beautiful.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really hard to do at first because you're so I I can only speak to me, right?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I was so used to choosing people pleasing, keeping my head down, approval, um being small, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't want to rock the boat and I didn't want to put boundaries up because I wanted people to love me the way they could, and but right.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But when I started having hard lines, uh that's when I became more, I am more myself than I've ever been.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I like me and I like my life, and I'm literally living in the life I prayed for.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really scary that first line in the sand that you stick to, because everybody's good at dropping lines in the sands, I think.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like sticking.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want that's right.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: We call those threats.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: We're really good at making threats.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Actually holding them.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Holding them.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's where the magic and integration start, is because when the the small yeses become big, no, I'm actually not gonna come to that argument anymore, or I'm actually not going to have that glass of wine.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you start holding yourself accountable for the, for those lines, that's when you really find peace.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's definitely it was about allowing people to give me hard love, who I had respect for, and just they were able to give it to me in a way that sort of made me stop and realize okay, there's no more fighting anymore.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's no more arguing, defending, whatever.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is what I'm doing to myself.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is the self-destructive pattern I'm staying in.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was about being able to come to the table and receive what people who had my best interest at heart were trying to tell me and not run from it anymore.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the scary part for me is having the hope that there were gonna be people out there on this journey that could hold all of the darkest parts of me and not shy away or tell me that I was too much, or my experience or my trauma was too much, or it was too dark, too scary, that my monsters were too big, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was having hope that maybe there are people out there who will be able to hold space for me and allow me to walk through.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why that's always been one of my biggest taglines when people say, What do you love most about what you do?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is walking with someone through the darkest parts of their journey and not letting them go.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I needed that so badly back then.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Tiffany, yeah, just that's it.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what healing is.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I and folks, you know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what humans need.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that um scene in Outlander when, you know, they they get Jamie back from the bad man who had tortured him, but then stick inside of himself and he could he could Claire couldn't reach him, right?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And until she like forced him to retell his story, and then he was able to, but before that, he was just suicidal and depressed, and he just wanted to die.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I relate to that so much, is that's the thing I was afraid of.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: If I went and did the healing work, that I was gonna be so ashamed that people were gonna judge me so horribly that I was gonna be criticized.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: That you know, the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I bet so many of our listeners do because they've been to marriage counseling where they heard the Gottman theory about the four things that lead to divorce, right?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, contempt, criticism, stonewalling, anyways, defensiveness.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, those are the same four things that destroy our relationship with ourselves or destroy any relationship, right?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the same four things that destroy any relationship, our relationship with a higher power, our relationship with ourselves, with our friends, with our family, with our partners, whatever it is.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what I was used to, right?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was used to if I was going to get honest or I was going to express a feeling that I was going to be met with the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really took consistently being surrounded by people who could hear my good, bad, and ugly, help me sort out what was delulu from what needed action, learning real tools that were gonna help me release things from my body, mind, spirit that I had been carrying.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that's the tricky part, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Where how do we actually release it?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: And ultimately, all of that, the the people, the people who held Tiffany, the people who held Joy, the people who held me helped us feel safe enough because the nervous system cannot release when it's stuck in fight, flight, freeze, fawn.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so many of us have been doing fawn along with fight, flight, and freeze, but not realizing that fawn is actually even sometimes more activated than fight, flight, and freeze because fawn in that trauma response is actually like stuck in the gear of disassociation, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so the people who held space for us to find safety in our bodies to then release the burdens.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there's infinite tools we've used, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like whether it's joy, you love EFT or EMDR or remedies or IFS or infinite, infinite, you know, yoga.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I spent years doing yoga and releasing burdens in yoga, you know, and it's always been a combination of all these things.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, being able to find some sense of safety, a safe place to set it all down and integrate.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those modalities, again, walking with clinicians and practitioners that make you feel safe.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that some of us who have been in therapy over the years and have had different therapists, they there is a clear difference between a therapist that makes you feel seen and held versus somebody that you're like, oh shit.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for the longest time for me, there was always this fear of if I give this over, if I say the thing out loud, please don't leave me.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I don't want you to leave me when I'm standing in my brokenness.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that when I think about being a single mom, when I say about going crazy, when I say about this and that, that's the difference in what we do because with the single moms that we have, we don't drop them.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're here.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're right here for everything.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: That, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: That and that whole journey is a process of recognizing not to drop myself, A, right?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Which is like not having the glass of wine when I know I need to get good sleep, uh, which is not hiding from the things that I know I need to be accountable for because I'm afraid that I am gonna feel too much shame, right?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also remodeling our conception of uh an intelligent, loving creator.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we've been shaped to anticipate being dropped when we're vulnerable, when we confess our sins, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: When what's modeled to us is being dropped, abandoned, turned from, criticized, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Back to those four horsemen of the apocalypse, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then that's how we conceive of an intelligent creator, also, that we're gonna we're gonna be dropped, or our backs are, you know, we're gonna be shown, shown, I don't know, not love and acceptance.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really think that yes, we do a beautiful job of being attuned to women and holding, holding, holding until they stop dropping themselves and they start trusting an intelligent creator and they start building relationships of community who of people who also won't drop them.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And right, all of a sudden, then there's this richer community of um safety versus abandonment.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an inside out thing, right?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's an inside out safety that gets installed over time.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Way back when I got super, remember how uh super obsessed about Brene Brown I got.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But she has this um analogy where she talks to her daughters who are in middle school and everybody knows who middle school is awful.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, but about the people who protect your flame and the people that blow it out and just getting super clear about the people who are for you and protect your flame versus the ones that blow it out is is a great.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: We we are flame protectors.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Flame protectors! We are flame protectors, flame builders, flame stokers, there we go.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: We will start your campfire.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Go find that clip.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's really it's such a beautiful way to describe relationships and friendships.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we started this episode with the idea that I was a marriage therapist and still could not save my marriage, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So if I could go back and I could sit with my therapist self, someone who P.S.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: It graduate school, when I went to graduate school, somatics was not all the rage FYI.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they weren't teaching EMBR there.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And right.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it was in there, but it was not like, wow, we have just learned, or we have started to apply so much more in the last, you know, 10 years.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: It really is.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that I also think that that's like a huge perk of our program is like we've done the research and the the work to and we have aggregated everything down to this is the things that move the needle, and this is why we've missed in our program.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Rotated.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Literally.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Literally.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's in my human design.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if I could go back to my therapist self then, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Who knew attachment theory but was living through divorce, right?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: The things that I wish I could tell myself then that graduate school could not have taught me was that I needed to continue to find those communities of people where I could feel safe, that I needed to keep reaching for the tools that were gonna help me to feel safe in my body and build a sense of security, that I needed to keep reaching for those flame protectors and those groups, and uh that I needed to keep uh looking for the tools.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like if it didn't uh work, that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: It means, you know, that this is going to be a process of unfolding, a journey of embodying.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh looking back now, 20 years later, yeah, 20 years since graduating from grad school, the people that I have met, the experiences that I've had, the connections that I have built, the meeting myself in moments where I was mind-blown by um, gosh, the strengths that I have never owned for myself, the resilience, the self-trust, the intuition that I denied for years, right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know those moments where you meet yourself and you're like, holy shit, I've always known that and I've been denying it to myself because XYZ person disagreed or disapproved or punished me for it, right?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: The amount of moments where I have met myself since graduate school and been able to validate my own awareness, understanding, and truth, even about therapeutic things.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, pause for a moment.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Things I've been taught in graduate school or by therapists along the way that I we have come to learn are not it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Not it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And something in my body knew that and understood that and kept reaching for a different way.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if I could go back to my graduate school self that was like, okay, you're getting divorced.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is really, this is really messed up.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I could tell myself, you have to feel your way through it.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: You have to trust that when something feels really off, that there's something to that.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and I have trusted that, right?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: But man, it took, it took longer because of how much self-doubt, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Of how much um doubting whether or not I would be provided for, doubting whether or not if I took the leap that I would be safe, doubting whether or not, you know, I could let go of the thing, or I could do it a different way, or I could, you know, risk somebody's approval or or name it, right?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that the experiences of learning, the experiences of connections, the community that I was gonna build along the way was gonna be the vehicle more than the knowledge was.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: The connecting with myself, the connecting with others was gonna be the vehicle for the knowledge to land.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still experiencing that, right?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Still experiencing that day after day.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Our closing ceremony at retreat was such an emotional moving experience because the experience of connecting, of beauty being mutually seen, understood, and valued is just one of the most transformative experiences a human can have.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: What would you say to the woman who says I have pretty good insight, but I'm scared to go further.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared it won't be worth it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared it's not gonna work.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared I'm gonna fall apart and I won't be able to pick myself back up.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared that nothing's gonna change.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared that it's gonna never end.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared that it's gonna cost too much, that this pain is going to last forever, and I, if I open the door, it'll never shut.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to the woman who's so scared?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm gonna validate you and say that on the other side of that door that's about to open, yes, all of that is true in some way.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is going to be scary and you're gonna learn a lot about yourself, but also it's it's so much love and so much welcoming, right?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like Voldemort and Harry Potter, right?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I'm gonna compare it.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yes, like on the other side of that door, like when I was in the middle of my healing process, there was things, there were breakthroughs I had that felt scary and that made me feel shame, and that I was mad and I was fucking angry and I was all the things.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then on the other side of that process, there was curiosity, there was love, there was welcoming, and there was a peace that came from finally facing all of it and making peace with myself and my past.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the key to allowing me to move forward in my life to the next chapter.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that it's so scary.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody is denying how scary it is, but you're also not alone.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you were to take the step and let us join you, we would be with you.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: And doing something scary by yourself is ten times harder than it is doing something scary.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with others, and we want to be that um flashlight.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Flashlight, I love that flashlight.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking like a that that the bubble, right?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, we want to be um Gelinda's bubble that you can maneuver this world with, but we're gonna encase you.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And remind you.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can you compare it to this?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can I compare it to this?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: For Mother's Day, I took my daughter up to a place where we went on train rides and it was beautiful and we had this beautiful weekend.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a place that's called the Road to Nowhere, and it's up in North Carolina, and it is an abandoned tunnel that was supposed to be a throughway, and then they abandoned the project halfway through, and it's said to be very haunted and like all the things.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you walk through this tunnel, and at one point, when her and I got to the middle, it was so dark, and it was like, oh shit, you know, and we felt like it was cold and like you could feel it.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was very witchy and very scary.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like at that point, we kind of looked at each other like, fuck, should we turn around?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: But we didn't.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: We just kept going.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like that where it's like, wow, we're gonna go in the middle of all of that, and then we're gonna come out on the other side and we're gonna laugh about it.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: But wait, what was on the other side?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was was she pretty?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: This beautiful sunlit path through the woods that you could continue walking, right?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was beautiful, but when you were in the middle of the tunnel, the sunlight was so dim that it was dark.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you couldn't even put your hand in front of your face.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like the perfect analogy for me of this program.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, we're gonna walk you to the darkest parts, and then we're gonna hold your hand when it gets really hard, and we're gonna walk you the rest of the world.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, we're not gonna drop you.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: Beautifully said.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you have ever been curious or interested to work with us, now is the time for us to hold your hand in the tunnel to nowhere.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Get connected.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: We love you so much.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Peace.