Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #69: Embracing the Digital Mortgage Consumer

Transcript

Ep #69: Embracing the Digital Mortgage Consumer · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
the real estate agents is essential for success.
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However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
0:11
With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
0:15
can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
0:20
Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
0:25
Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
0:31
And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
0:34
with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
0:39
To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
0:45
of the case study today.
0:47
You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
0:52
in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too.
0:56
Don't miss out.
0:57
Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
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Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper, welcome to this episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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Hey, I don't know if you're a new listener, if you've been around for a while, hopefully
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you're liking the episodes and look, one of the ways we grow our audience and add more
1:47
value to the industry is through you, through our loyal listeners.
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And so if you haven't yet taken a moment to leave us a review on iTunes, I'd appreciate
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that if you would.
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Whatever the platform is, you're listening on iTunes, Stitcher.
2:00
There's another platform you want us to be on.
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Let us know.
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But if you're liking the show and the content, I appreciate those of you who have gone
2:05
out there and left reviews, I'm grateful for that.
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And I want to let you know how you can leave a review for us.
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And that is by simply going to iTunes or Stitcher and leaving us a review.
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And as a thank you for that, you're going to be rewarded, right?
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I'm going to send you a free Mortgage Marketing Radio t-shirt.
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This is some cool swag.
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I just got, I'm looking over here.
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I've just got a new stock in, so we've got some large XL sizes.
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It might be a few mediums in there as well.
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But you can be amongst the people such as David Brown from Johnson City, Tennessee, who
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just left us a review, David, your t-shirts on its way to you.
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As a matter of fact, I got a list of people that I'm sending out t-shirts to today.
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You could be on that list too.
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Just leave us a review.
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And once you do, send me an email, info at mortgagemarketinginstitute.com.
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Let me know.
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You left a review, your size and your mailing address, and we'll get you off a t-shirt
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in the mail.
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And you know what, even cooler is once you get that t-shirt, hey, we need to get better
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at social media.
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Us seasoned loan officers, right?
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Those of us that are 40 plus, and I'm 10 years more over than 40 plus, actually, 12.
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But we need to get better at social media, right?
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So how about if you snap a photo of you on social media, it could be Instagram, it could
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be Facebook, right, of you sporting the t-shirt.
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Share that up, tag me, link up to me, and on the inner webs with you and your mortgage
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marketing radio t-shirt, sport in the swag, and I'll give you a free coaching session.
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That's right.
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Just tag me on social media.
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That way I'll get notified of that.
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You and your mortgage marketing radio t-shirt, and I'll give you a free coaching session.
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Just talk through some challenges you have.
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Maybe you'll just want to air out an idea, maybe get some pointers, best practices.
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That's what I'm willing to do for you.
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So that's that.
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All right.
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On to this week's show and my very special guest too.
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I'm just gratefully honored that she's being a part of our show today.
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I've known Sue for well over 10 years.
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That is Sue Woodard, chief customer officer at Total Expert and mortgage industry expert.
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Sue brings over 25 years of mortgage experience, strategic vision, and leadership to the industry.
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She has been helping loan officers for gosh, well over a decade become better to help
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loan officers break through barriers and sharpen their skills and get connected to the
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real passion and understand how to navigate in today's market.
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In this episode here, what Sue and I are talking about is the tipping point, as she calls
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it, for 2018, in that this year is going to be a tough year.
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It's going to be a challenging year.
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But one that has opportunities as well, and that's simply because I think we're finally
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at that place of the convergence of technology, starting to really, I shouldn't say starting,
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it's really kind of reaching this critical mass in the mortgage space where there's lots
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of talk about being displaced by technology and push button mortgage and all that stuff.
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So Sue, you know, gosh, she's just such a wealth of knowledge.
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She was the president of vantage production mortgage success source.
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You guys may know of them.
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She was there for gosh, well over 10 years.
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And as I said, she's now the chief customer officer at total expert, which you'll hear
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a little bit about that.
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But we spend the bulk of our time talking about the situation, the current market with
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multi apps going on and it's easier than ever for people to take to three loan applications
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and shop you and the tighter margins that are out there in the market.
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How do we compete in that situation?
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And what can we do with our personal brand so that we do become the lender of choice?
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What are some best practices and habits and things like that?
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And then, you know, some advice and suggestions on how to step up our game, how to adjust for
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the new modern mortgage originator requirements and demands that are going to be put on thus.
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Because we either, right, adjust, we they're adapting grow where we wither and die.
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And so I'm just thrilled to have Sue's perspective of, you know, over 25 years of mortgage industry
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experience working with leaders.
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She's just a rock star.
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Sue is made guest appearances on CNBC.
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She's got multiple industry honors, including mortgage professional America hot 100 list,
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the housing wire Vanguard award and the national mortgage professional, most innovative award.
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And she also serves on the board of hope for youth, her passion project.
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It's a local nonprofit working to end youth homelessness.
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So wealth of knowledge, incredible person.
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Sue is just, you know, she emits energy and empathy and effectiveness.
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And she's just, right, I just consider my, you know, some people just kind of touch
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your heart, right?
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And she shows up in that way on a consistent basis every time I have a chance to talk with
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Sue.
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And besides that, she's a little bit crazy because she's a thrill seeker.
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She's actually cage dive with great white sharks, man, oh, man.
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So without further ado, let's welcome our very special guest to the show Sue Wooder.
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Sue, welcome to the show.
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Hey, thank you so much for having me.
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I'm glad to be here.
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It is an honor, a pleasure and a privilege.
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I'm a fanboy, I guess is what you can say.
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No, it's not something I hear every day, but I love it.
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And I'm a big fan of yours.
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I'm a big fan of yours.
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You and I go way back, don't we?
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I mean, we've had interesting times together.
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We do, as a matter of fact, for those listeners, how you and I first connected was, gosh,
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that's probably 10 years ago now, where I was helping out, but who's counting?
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All right.
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Who's counting?
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Getting too old.
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You and I, we teamed up and I helped you put on a class for your realtors, and it
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was on the day that your bridge, your main bridge broke in downtown Minneapolis.
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Yeah.
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No, as a day of the big bridge collapse, and I always said, the most amazing thing is
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that it was literally the 35 W bridge that's how everybody would have gotten to where we
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were at, and we still had a packed house.
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So you could tell you to bring in the value.
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85 agents, I think, still showed up.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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It was awesome.
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It was awesome, but it was an interesting day.
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We'll never forget.
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For sure.
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Okay.
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So here we are.
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10 plus years later.
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There's been a few changes, right?
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There has been a lot of changes, absolutely.
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So what I want to talk about here with our listeners here today is there's some challenges
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facing loan officers today, quite a few, right?
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So I want to kind of unpack these in different order, if you will.
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And the first one I think that's top of mind for me is, you mentioned earlier before
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we had record, you know, this is, you see this a tipping point year 2018.
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Why do you see it as a tipping point?
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You know, I see this as being a really, really critical year for the originator in terms
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of changing some of the habits and shaking off old habits and really embracing some new
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things for a number of reasons.
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I'll tell you some of the, you know, kind of the perfect storm of things that are arriving
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that are really going to force us in the industry to make some shifts this year.
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And this is going to be it.
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In our actions the next six months, I think are going to be critical to our long-term success.
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And some of the things that we're seeing in the industry, I mean, certainly digital
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mortgages, though the talk of the day and what does that mean.
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And I want to unpack that a little bit as we talk.
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But when you look at right now, it is estimated that at least 50% of consumers are multi-apping,
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meaning that when they're applying for a mortgage with you, they are also applying at least
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one other place, if not, you know, two, three, four, five other places.
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When I talk to originators out there, originators are saying, I bet it's even higher than that,
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right?
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Because it's become so easy, right?
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You know, rocket started this whole saying of click button gets mortgage, which frankly
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was just a really awesome marketing scheme.
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But when it is, you know, when it's possible to do things online, we've made things so
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easy.
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Well, you know, people are going out and they're multi-apping.
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So we've got that.
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We've got an inventory issue right now.
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So deals are staying in our pipeline much longer.
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So how are we nurturing those leads in our pipeline and how are we sure that we're going
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to get, you know, the opportunity to work with that customer, what does our poll through
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look like?
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We're clearly in a purchase market, right?
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The refives are done.
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Purchase market requires more engagement of a different type and frankly of a human type
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because, you know, people are buying homes where their families are going to live, where
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their life is going to take place.
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It's very different than a rate in term financial transaction.
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We've got changing demographics in the mortgage industry and who our customers are.
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We've got, you know, the millennials are coming of age and buying homes and, you know,
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they're aged about, you know, 20 to 35 right now, depending on who you ask.
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So I have a millennial of my own now that I can observe at the so forth.
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Oh, nice.
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Yeah, it's a whole, yeah, it's like a little laboratory, I get to observe how she and her
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friends behave, but it's very different, you know, I mean, it's, and I love it.
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We're pushing us towards challenging the way that we do things and what the customer
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experience is like, you know, when people go through getting a mortgage.
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We're also aging in our industry.
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Let's face it, what's the average age we're just talking about is it 55, 56, for loan
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officers, something like that.
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Right.
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So, you know, let's face it, we're, you know, we're all aging at the same pace and, you
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know, that means that we've got to take a look at our own habits and where our heads
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are at and who we're serving and how we are serving them.
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And there's just this, you know, an increase in cost, you know, regulatory cost, you
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know, if you're in a leadership position, you're looking at this every single day with
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all of the compliance that has come in and it's good that the compliance came in, but
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it's absolutely driving up the cost of doing a mortgage.
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So, there's some massive shifts in this industry that are likely to take place.
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And, you know, Jeff, you and I have both been around in this industry a long time, right?
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I mean, 20, I've been in this business, you know, gosh, 27 years.
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And people have been talking about, you know, this kind of change in the industry since
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the day I entered the business, right?
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And I know you too.
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Everybody's always been talking about, oh, someday, you know, computers and robots will do
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it all.
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And we always were like, well, you know what?
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That day has come where the robots are here and this is something though that my message
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really to originators is although this is a critical year, this is about embracing technology,
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harnessing it, utilizing it so that you're automating all of the things that you possibly
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can, but really elevating yourself to have that human touch, that your customers and your
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referral partners still absolutely survey after survey after survey says they want, they
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want a human being just at the right time and the right channel and the right place and
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the right way with the right message.
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So that's great.
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Where do you think the balance of meeting face to face in person, balancing that with
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technology fits in and I know it differs based on loan officer, but, you know, where
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would you see that fitting in to a loan officer today if they're going to, right, be relevant
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and current?
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We've obviously got technology to see.
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We got to offer that.
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But does that mean we just, you know, totally never meet with clients?
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No, I would never say that.
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In fact, it's very interesting.
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A lot of times people are under a misconception that they think, you know, it's the millennial
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who never want to meet with a human being.
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Very unusually, it's actually that demographic above all others that absolutely do want to
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meet with a human being.
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Why do they want to meet with a person?
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Because in many cases, they've never bought a house before.
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You also have to remember that that generation who is just the sweet spot of home buyers,
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you know, the largest, you know, first time home buyer generation to hit, they were, think
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about with the age that they were when they went through probably seeing their parents,
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their family members, their neighbors, lose their home and go through the worst time
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this industry ever experienced.
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So they've got a lot of fears surrounding this.
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It's the first time they've ever done it.
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And the difference is that they don't want everything to be a manual process in this,
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you know, you know, physical examination where you have to get together and you know,
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do all these painful things.
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What most home buyers want now, and particularly millennials, are really driving towards the
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automation of all of the things that you can.
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These millennials, and buyers these days in general, really want to be able to do all their
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homework online.
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They want to do research online.
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They want the application process to be simple, digital and easy.
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They want to upload documents where it's not this, again, weird process where you're bringing
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a briefcase of things and photocopies and, you know, this thing.
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And again, we've made such a leap in making that process so much easier, but they do want
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to be able to reach out to a real human being through various channels.
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You know, the channels are also very important to talk about because it's not necessarily
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again, you know, face-to-face getting together in your office.
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It may not look like that at all.
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And I think you have to be sensitive to, you know, what kind of channels people want.
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One of the buzzwords, I think people will start hearing a lot more of, it's something
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called Omni-channel rather than multi-channel, you know, what's your Omni-channel approach.
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And the truth is that nearly, I did something like 98.4% of Americans switched between multiple
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devices in the same day.
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Now, you and I have probably switched between multiple devices like in the last, you know,
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hour or 15 minutes, right, without our phones.
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We've got my little wear, but I'm looking at my little Fitbit that's, you know, sending
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me text messages.
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I've got my laptop here.
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I've got, you know, we've got all of these devices and people have, I think, on average,
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3.75 devices between all of the different things.
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And so you have to be very aware of how you're interacting with your customers and interacting
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with your referral partners in the channel that they want, but they do expect a consistent
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human experience across those channels.
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So you will find, for example, you know what, you're going to find people that their
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life and their business work such that, yeah, they want to talk to you, a human being,
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but they want to do a via text, you know, that's their preferred channel.
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I could tell you that for my own daughter, that is a great way to talk to her, right?
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It's a meal I've done via text.
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And you're in the same house, too.
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Yeah, exactly, you know, I want to pick up a star, as to talk to each other.
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You know, but...
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Also, I text.
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I'm going to bet.
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Right.
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Right.
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And you're, you know, how you're interacting with people on social, you know, how you're,
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again, there could be a variety of different channels.
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And so I absolutely would say that there's perhaps even more need to find the right places
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for your human impact.
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And the only way that I think you can really do that and be present for the places where
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your customer and your referral partner really need you to be in a human way is to automate
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everything else that you possibly can and use technology.
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Don't run away from technology, embrace technology.
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There's so many forward-thinking companies that are putting the tools into place.
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And it's amazing when I see sometimes originators fighting it and saying, no, you know, I don't
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want this.
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I need this to be, you know, a human experience.
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You're enabling a fantastic human experience to happen and enabling yourself to be in the
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right places, at the right time, through the right channels, saying the right things and
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being there when they really need you, if you automate everything out.
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So what you're saying is we really need to pivot and adjust our customer experience based
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on that customer's preferences.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And I think there's questions that you need to ask of your customer, you know, what
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is your preferred method?
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You know, how do you want to communicate?
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Again, people are certainly wired very differently in their lives and their businesses work very
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differently.
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Sometimes people just, you know, the nature of their business is they can't get on the
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phone or they can't meet you in person.
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Great.
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Well, figure out what their deal is.
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And it makes it tricky.
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It means that we've got more things that we've got to be watching, right?
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And so, you know, you have to really find out what are those channels and how do you, you
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know, how do you offer that to your customers so that you're not making yourself crazy if
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you've got, you know, I mean, haven't prepared to get somebody.
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I want to talk to you on Snapchat.
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I want to talk to you on Instagram.
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I want to talk to you on, you know, you have to provide kind of a standard set of channels.
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But again, automate everything that you possibly can in terms of that experience and your
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lead nurturing and being in touch with people.
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There's again, so many great technologies.
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I mean, you know, I just joined total expert and I am just like wildly excited about what
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I see here and how we're serving our customers and what we're doing, but that's a huge part
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of what we're doing is enabling multiple channel communication with customers, whether
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it's email or text or what have you, you know, it's all in the system.
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It's everything is automated and then it pings you to have the opportunity for that human
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interaction at the right time.
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Yeah, yeah, and we'll talk about total expert as well before we wrap up because I agree
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that's a pretty powerful platform.
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So then what, you know, what would you say are, like if a loan officer's listening to
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this, okay, because I have two different mixes of the audience here.
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I've got people who are new, and I've got the veterans, right, 10, 10, and plus years
19:07
in the business.
19:08
So what gets in the way of people making this shift, this pivot, old habits, yeah, I think
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old habits die hard.
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And I think there's this, you know, kind of a sense of, you know, people have a fear
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about it.
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It's sometimes they talk to originators and they'll say, you know, oh, I'm not worried
19:27
about technology replacing me because they really know their value.
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And you go to, you know, the bar with them later, you're sitting out, you know, somewhere
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talking and they're like, oh, you know, what is this?
19:35
What really is this going to mean?
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And you may remember that there were some statistics that came out from NPR, you know,
19:42
talking about the mortgage loan officer to 98.4% chance was 98.4% chance of being replaced.
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Well, it doesn't go unnoticed by people.
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And so I think there is kind of a, you know, sometimes people will fight it.
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We've also got, you know, there's a learning curve.
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Let's face it, there's a learning curve with any kind of new tool that's coming in.
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And it's hard, you know, it's, I was an originator for years and years and years and years
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and years.
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And the minute that a new technology comes into play, your instant reaction is, oh, man,
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here we go again.
20:13
And so again, it's a big mindset shift.
20:16
And I think this goes from the top down, you know, leaders need to lead, you know, leaders
20:22
of mortgage companies, the most successful mortgage companies I see in the most successful
20:26
originators are willing to, you know, open their minds, take on some new challenges.
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And let's face it, it's hard, you know, I mean, age, again, the average age of a loan
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off to being 56, 57, that's not generally your pivotal time in life where you're looking
20:39
to learn new habits.
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But I'm telling you, you know, unless you're planning on retiring soon, this is it.
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And you have to carve out the time, spending the investment of time in understanding the
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system that your company is bringing to bear or the tools that you're investing in and
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figuring out, how do you get the setup to enable your future success and how all these
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interactions are going to work with your customers, with your real partners, it is critical
21:07
that that would be done.
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And I'm telling you, this year is going to be a really key year for that.
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So you've got to really architect that process, that customer experience process and really
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thoughtfully designed that to win in the current market.
21:21
Yeah, absolutely.
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And some of the things that are absolutely critical is, again, when you think about the
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world that we're living in right now, information overload, it's just true, right?
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We have more information that comes out of any given day in a 24 hour period than somebody
21:40
in the 17th century had in their whole entire lifetime.
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That's what we're given in one day, right?
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So our brains are being really challenged with all this information coming at us.
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Now, this is also true.
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Think about our customers, they're getting bombarded in the same way, all of the messaging
21:59
in this and that, all the channels that are coming at you and all the channels, your
22:03
kids may be giving things that, it's just, it's absolute information overload.
22:07
We are operating at a point we've never operated before in history.
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So what that means is that as we are looking to get our message across to people that
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we want to do business with, whether it's the leads you're wanting to work with, whether
22:20
it's, you know, your database for your repeat and referral business, whether it's your
22:24
referral partners, there's a couple of things.
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I'm going to be two things that are critically, critically important.
22:30
Number one is consistency and repetition.
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Okay, people overlook how critical it is and this is to me where technology hugely comes
22:39
into play, right?
22:40
It has a consistent message and repeat it way more often than you think you need to.
22:46
Right about the time that we as creative people, most originators, I know are really creative,
22:51
right?
22:52
We're always thinking of the next idea and the next thing and the next, you know, cool
22:55
message we want to get out there, but it's right about the time that, you know, we
22:58
send it out three times and we're like, ah, you know, bored.
23:00
Yeah, I want to move on to a different message, a different thing, maybe I'll design a new
23:03
logo.
23:04
You know, I mean, who know, we're moving on to something different.
23:07
That's right at the time that maybe your customers just starting to kind of hear it and
23:12
see it.
23:13
And they say that, you know, it takes a minimum of nine times to repeat a message when
23:18
you're looking to get somebody's attention in the market again as a lead consumer referral
23:22
partner before they really even start to hear it.
23:26
And you know, it's interesting too that frequency brings familiarity and familiarity brings trust.
23:33
Right.
23:34
So we need to have, when we're looking at our, you know, just how we're marketing ourselves
23:38
and talking a little bit about, you know, I know there's some restrictions around how
23:41
we're marketing ourselves and we'll talk a little bit about that too with my second
23:44
point.
23:45
But just be very aware with your message, with your, again, leads your database, your
23:51
referral partners have few messages, but just more often, few messages repeated more
23:58
often.
23:59
That's how you, how you get through where people see that and they start to recognize it.
24:03
And as I said, the frequency brings familiarity and the similarity brings trust.
24:09
Right.
24:10
The second point, and this is something I'm hearing a lot of leaders talking about, which
24:14
is a little unusual.
24:15
We haven't had this in the past, but it's the importance of your personal brand.
24:20
No, normal.
24:21
It seems like, yeah, right, right?
24:23
What personal brand can, it seems like what we've heard forever in our industry is, you
24:29
know, leaders at a, at a big level, pushing against personal brand and saying, no, no,
24:33
no, no, no.
24:34
There is no personal brand.
24:35
You are just, you know, employee 45 in this massive machine and that's how we stay
24:39
compliant.
24:40
But here's what I think, here's where the magic is.
24:42
Now, I am not by any means saying that if you work at, you know, a big, fantastic company
24:47
that's really, you know, investing a lot in that brand, use the power of that brand.
24:52
I'm not talking about going outside of that.
24:54
However, I'm talking about you as a human being, like you and I, Jeff, we both have a personal
25:00
brand.
25:01
It has nothing to do with what colors or logos or anything like that, but it's how we
25:05
are operating, how we do business.
25:09
You know, what kind of, just what we're bringing to our interactions, our relationships
25:12
and our transactions, there's definitely an element of personal brand.
25:17
Now, leaders right now are understanding the importance of allowing the folks that work
25:22
for them.
25:23
So all of you listening, leaders are saying, I'm talking banking leaders are saying we understand
25:30
the power of the personal brand and allowing people to find ways where they are compliantly
25:37
able to show that personal brand and how you show up and how you, again, how you're conducting
25:42
yourself with your, with your customers and with your referral partners.
25:46
And you know, it's like such an old quote, but it was one of the ones that I just love
25:50
and have always hung on to is Tom Peters, member Tom Peters, a billion years ago, something
25:55
like 40 years ago, he talked about that we're all the CEOs of our own companies.
26:01
So if you're in business today, regardless of what your job is, regardless of what your
26:05
role is, regardless of where you work, your most important job is to be the head marketer
26:10
for the brand called you.
26:12
And I think that's still incredibly powerful.
26:15
Yeah, we got to be compliant.
26:16
Yeah, we got to embrace the power of the amazing brands that some of us work for and the great
26:22
things that our companies are doing for us, but don't overlook that there is this, your
26:27
personal brand is kind of the combination of how you see yourself and how others see
26:30
you.
26:31
I know for sure, Jeff, you know, if you go ask, you know, go ask your network of people
26:35
and what are three words that you'd use to describe me?
26:38
They would have three words that they would use to describe you, right?
26:41
People would have three words that they use to describe me.
26:43
So you really want to do some thinking about in this world where a lot of things can and
26:48
should be automated, really think about, though, how does your personal brand show up in
26:52
that?
26:53
And do you think who you are?
26:55
That's great lesson there.
26:56
And I like the fact that you kind of said your brand is what you do every day.
27:00
It really is.
27:01
So there's multiple components to brand.
27:03
It's how you show up every day.
27:04
It's how you interact.
27:05
It's if you, you know, follow up in a timely manner, do you send that email when it's
27:09
you should send it?
27:10
Do you call that person back and a, you know, all that stuff is your brand in addition
27:15
to how you're showing up where people are today, which is online, right?
27:20
On the social.
27:21
Yes.
27:22
Absolutely.
27:23
Yep.
27:24
Absolutely.
27:25
So what are you seeing then?
27:26
This is interesting conversation because companies have varying levels of compliance, constriction
27:30
and it's frustrating for me sometimes because, you know, I'm trying to coach and teach
27:33
and help LOs to like build their own brand.
27:35
And yet, you know, some people are like, no, you can't do video arts.
27:38
So how could a law officer navigate and start what would be a good example of building
27:44
your personal brand say online?
27:46
Well, I mean, I'm just going to give you an example.
27:48
I mean, for myself, I would say, I mean, I'm just thinking about what are the words
27:51
that somebody would use to describe me in terms of how I interact and business with people.
27:56
And you know, the couple of things I would say is that I'm energetic, I'm empathetic
28:00
and I execute.
28:01
The truth is, like, yeah, yeah, right?
28:04
So, but those things are, they are true of me and I know that everybody that I operate
28:10
with and do business with would describe me in that way.
28:12
That is my personal brand, right?
28:14
So it's not about like, well, I really, you know, I always wear, you know, red shirts
28:18
or things and it can be stuff like that.
28:20
It can be stuff like that, but it's really thinking about how do you, how do you show up and
28:24
how do you represent yourself and are there tweaks that you need to make in that?
28:28
Yes.
28:29
Some of that Jeff Ken show up in your social, you know, every company has a little different
28:32
rules on how you do your social, but even if your social is completely outside of your
28:38
business, just understand that that's the part of your brand out there.
28:42
There is no, you know, secret channel where you get to be somebody else, you know, off
28:47
wherever, I mean, in my opinion, anything you're putting out there digitally, that is a part
28:52
of your brand.
28:53
And you need to be really, really just very aware of that.
28:56
It is something I coach my daughter on all the time, it's like, understand that if you
28:59
don't want grandma to see it, don't put it out there because it's the grandma benchmark,
29:06
huh?
29:07
The grandma benchmark, exactly.
29:08
So, you know, and I think one of the ways that you can really even vet this out, one of
29:14
the things I'm a huge proponent of is having, what I call, well, I don't call it this
29:19
as a pretty known concept, but having a personal board of directors, right, a personal board
29:25
of directors is somebody that, again, I would say, just like you already have a personal
29:29
brand, whether you're being intentional about it or not, you already have a personal board
29:35
of directors, whether you're being intentional about it or not.
29:38
Here's what I mean.
29:39
If you've got a group of people around you, you do Jeff, I do too, everybody on this
29:43
call does, who kind of speak into you.
29:47
They, you know, maybe challenge decisions you're making or maybe they just agree with them.
29:50
They, yep, you know, buddy, good job, you know, that makes sense or yeah, that really
29:54
sucks.
29:55
I know what you mean.
29:56
And I wonder sometimes if we really are intentionally surrounding ourselves with people that may challenge
30:02
us, that may hit a straight between the eyes and say, man, your personal brand sucks because
30:05
you never return phone calls or you return phone calls, but they're five days late.
30:09
You know, do we have people around us who are going to speak that kind of truth to us?
30:13
So, one of the ways I can see this showing up and just as a stand alone concept that I think
30:18
is really important for people to do is really think about if you have developed a personal
30:24
board of directors very intentionally.
30:27
Now I have on my, you know, quote unquote personal board of directors, I don't tell people
30:31
they're on it by and large because over time, you may need to replace them and that can
30:36
be an awkward conversation, right?
30:39
But I do have a group of, you know, a defined group of eight people that I know in my head,
30:43
that is my current personal board of directors.
30:46
And they are people that think a little differently in some cases than I do.
30:49
I didn't line up just a bunch of people that sink in the same way I do or a bunch of people
30:54
that are just going to say, oh, yeah, oh, sure, yeah, that's cool.
30:56
Yeah, go you.
30:57
I pick people that I know have no problem saying, you know what, you're headed the wrong
31:02
direction on this thing.
31:04
Or you think that, you know, you're coming off like this, you're not, you're coming off
31:07
like this.
31:08
I pick people, I've got somebody very definitely in my mind right now.
31:14
You're completely opposite in terms of just our life and political, you know, leanings
31:19
and philosophies.
31:21
But I love being able to challenge some of the things I think about because of somebody
31:25
that I think very differently than.
31:27
So that's just an action item that somebody can take right now off of this call and really
31:33
think about who's pouring into you.
31:36
And that's where you can test out your personal brand.
31:38
Did you really find some people, not just your buddies who are going to say, oh, yeah,
31:41
you're awesome.
31:42
You're going to find people who are really going to be honest and critical with you and
31:46
ask them those questions.
31:47
You know, how am I doing?
31:48
You know, what is my personal brand?
31:49
If you had to give me three words that describe me, what would those three words be?
31:53
Wow.
31:54
Well, exercise.
31:55
Yeah.
31:56
I love that.
31:57
If you had, if you were to describe me and how I show up, right, what would three words
32:01
be that you use?
32:02
Yeah.
32:03
Yeah.
32:04
Yeah.
32:05
That's, that could be a scary one too.
32:07
Yeah.
32:08
We'll be honest with you, yeah, because again, that's what I'm, that's what I'm talking
32:13
about with personal brand is, is again, it how you show up, it's how your personality
32:17
is there.
32:18
You know, and again, I can think of originators who I follow on social that have a really
32:22
distinct personal brand and has nothing to do with their, you know, their logo, their
32:27
whatever.
32:28
You know, but there's people who are really into, for example, maybe they're nonprofits
32:32
involvement.
32:34
And so you just know, man, that guy is really into getting back, you know, that's part
32:39
of his personal brand.
32:40
So again, it's not about the, oh, I mean, he's a different color than my company uses.
32:44
You know, no, no, no, that's not what we're talking about.
32:47
We're talking about just how you show up in business because that stuff matters.
32:50
I mean, it does matter.
32:52
It's also something just to tie that back to something we were talking about earlier
32:57
and the, you know, the millennials in particular and the group of people that we're serving.
33:02
People's care about causes is one of the beautiful things I love about this generation.
33:08
I, people gripe sometimes about millennials.
33:10
I think they're just awesome.
33:11
I love this generation because they're just, you know, they're very different than generations
33:16
that have preceded them, but they care a lot about cause, okay, cause matters.
33:21
And they are going to look at you, if they're your customer, they're going to look at you
33:25
as an originator and they're going to look at your company, they're going to look at
33:28
number one.
33:29
How do you appear on digital?
33:31
Okay.
33:32
How do you show up?
33:33
Do you have a weird old looking website?
33:35
Is it, you know, does everything look clunky?
33:36
Does it look painful?
33:37
Do I have to come in and fill out papers by hand?
33:39
You know, they're going to judge that, but they're really going to look at cause as well
33:43
and just kind of what's your, you know, what do you stand for?
33:47
That really, really matters to that group.
33:49
So again, thinking through, you know, your image, your personal brand,
33:52
how you show up, cause matters to millennials big time.
33:57
I agree.
33:57
100% in a branding class.
34:00
This is so relevant.
34:01
We, I teach a branding class to a bunch of realtors all over the country.
34:04
And that's one of the key sections I talked about, which is cause marketing.
34:08
And it's, it's funny because I think some people feel like the, the two should be separate.
34:13
Like I got my business over here.
34:14
That's cool.
34:15
But then I got my cause over here.
34:16
And I don't really quote publicize that, you know, but I show them a, you know, this,
34:21
I show them statistics that prove that to your point, like, first of all, people want
34:25
to know about the causes that you're involved in.
34:27
And then secondly, they're okay with you integrating that into your overall subject.
34:32
Yep.
34:33
And there's, it, there's actually amazing stats surrounding things like that that when
34:39
you're using, you know, kind of who you really are as a person, you're not like putting
34:43
on your, like persona when you go to work, but you're really, again, being that person
34:47
who's into these causes, you outsell your peers, you know, people, it leads, convert more
34:54
frequently.
34:55
Well, yeah, I was just going to say, so the example, the classic examples, Tom Shoes, you
35:01
know, I asked the, you know, it's like, would you think they would be as successful as they
35:05
are without having really put, you know, a stake in the ground for buy one, give one and
35:10
everyone says, no, they're not.
35:12
And then of course, you know, the studies and the stats is like given, consumers are given
35:16
a choice between company A, company B, all of the things being equal, but company B is
35:21
involved in some type of cause, marketing company A is not over 95% of people will choose
35:25
company B.
35:26
Yes.
35:27
Exactly.
35:28
Exactly.
35:29
Yeah.
35:30
It's, it's so right.
35:31
And again, you got to remember that a lot of the people, when you talk about what, what
35:34
happened, what was happening in this world 10 years ago, all right, for people who are
35:39
now 20 to 34 years old, you know, they were 10 to 24 years old and what they saw, the
35:45
trauma that probably a lot of them saw and went through with people around them.
35:50
They care about the world in a different way, they just, they really do.
35:54
And we were at the epicenter of a lot of that, the market, you know, the mortgage business.
35:57
And so it's just again, it's that awareness, how are you showing up?
36:00
How are you giving back to the world is really important.
36:03
So I know we've got some people listening that understand and get that, but they're not
36:07
yet aligned with or affiliated with some type of a cause or a passion project or something.
36:12
Any, you know, I, you know, there's so many different ideas like pets and, you know,
36:17
homeless and feeding, you know, the food banks, but, but, I mean, any suggestions you've
36:21
seen or you'd offer to people that may be struggling with, well, how do I get an
36:25
associate into a cause?
36:26
What do we do?
36:27
No, it's, you know, what I would say, it's so personal, you know, people have got to
36:31
go where their hearts lead them because I would bet that every single person on this call,
36:36
when you ask a question, like, you know, what, what do you see out in the world?
36:40
What kind of injustice do you see that fires you up or where do you see?
36:43
You know, if you look at a hurt out there, where, where is that hurt?
36:47
For me personally, I will tell you that it's, it's teenagers, and so I just, I love teenagers
36:55
and I was, you know, really involved in a lot of, you know, non-profit causes surrounding
36:59
youth in our school system when my daughter was in school, she's at some college now, but
37:03
now I'm on the board of an organization called Hope for Youth, and we work with homeless
37:09
youth because believe it or not, there are a lot of unaccompanied homeless youth.
37:13
I'm not talking about there's parents and their kids are homeless with them because that's
37:17
certainly is a separate issue, but there's literally teenagers that have been turned
37:20
out of their house for a variety of reasons and don't have a home.
37:24
And so that's, I don't want to go on about, I could talk about that all day, so I'm
37:27
not going to talk about that.
37:28
But it's something that grabs my heart because I love teenagers, and when I think about,
37:32
you know, putting people in a home, it also, for me, is a, like, a real intersection
37:36
between what I care about personally and what I'm doing professionally.
37:40
Right?
37:41
That's one of the amazing things I think about the business that we're in.
37:44
One of the reasons I have always loved, like truly, I can say I love the mortgage business
37:48
of the people in it is because we're helping people get into homes.
37:52
I mean, that, to me, I know that the people that make, like, you know, pop sockets or,
37:58
you know, those cool things that are on the back of your phones that everybody has right
38:00
now, right?
38:01
I'm sure that they feel probably like we are changing the world with pop sockets, right?
38:06
And they, I love my pop sockets, and I'm not going to lie.
38:09
But we're literally making, putting people into homes where their families happen, where
38:13
their lives happen, where they laugh and cry and sleep and eat, that's an amazing cause.
38:18
So I think the fact that we're at the mortgage industry, it's almost a cause in itself, but
38:22
there's so many home related, you know, things, you know, and charities and causes around
38:28
this.
38:29
I think it'd be really easy to pick something.
38:30
It just, you know, pick something that appeals to you, but I surely think that it's a,
38:35
it's a, it's a huge element and it's a huge way you can stand out for sure.
38:38
Agreed.
38:39
It's, it's got to be real and authentic for you.
38:41
You can't fake that.
38:42
Yeah.
38:43
So, yeah, I've got one, I got to give you a quick tip related to that cause I'm always
38:48
a big one for accountability, like, you know, so, for example, I know, you know, we've
38:53
only got a couple minutes left to talk, but, you know, when we're done talking, I hope
38:56
that people are making some note things, boy, I need to do this or I need to think about
39:00
that or I need to, you know, form a personal board of directors or I need to really look
39:05
at my personal brand or need to, so whatever those action items are, I'm always all about
39:09
accountability.
39:10
So, a quick idea that just popped up for me that I'm just fair with you.
39:14
There's a website out there called stick.com.
39:19
It's STICK.com.
39:20
Okay.
39:21
Now, what it's for is a free website and you can put your goal out there.
39:29
So if you're, or your task or you're saying your plan, you know, and it could be personal,
39:33
it could be professional, but whatever your saying is that you're saying, I want to accomplish
39:36
X in X period of time, I want to, whatever it is, open another branch, I want to hire another
39:42
loan officer, I want to bring on three new referral partners, I want to, you know, do X number
39:47
transactions this month, whatever that looks like for you.
39:50
You can put something out there on that site that that's your publicly saying this is
39:54
my goal.
39:55
Now, you can assign a referee to it so you can have a buddy who can go on and say, yep,
40:00
they actually did it or nope, they actually didn't do that thing.
40:03
And if you don't do it, you put a certain amount of money on the line.
40:07
When you set your goal, if you don't do it, your money goes to a cause that you hate or
40:14
disagree with.
40:15
Oh, really?
40:16
Isn't that, yeah, not the one you like because, you know, people will have like, oh, well,
40:20
you know, five dollars in the swerge are, you know, and then we'll buy pizza at the end
40:24
of month.
40:25
Well, that's just incentive for me to swear because we're going to get pizza at the end of
40:28
that.
40:29
So that's not good.
40:30
But, but if this one is actually you pick out a cause that you absolutely despise and
40:37
you put your money on the line with that cause, like sending money to cigarette companies.
40:41
Absolutely.
40:42
Yeah.
40:43
Or, you know, to help support, you know, that's, you know, lobbying, I don't even want
40:46
to go into what the possibilities could be because I don't want to be inflammatory about
40:49
what they could be, but I bet you can all think of something, a, you know, cause of political
40:54
side, you know, political issue, you know, there's, you know, politics, we're not going
41:01
there.
41:02
But my point being you absolutely could think of something and that's going to be a lot
41:05
more likely to get that thing done.
41:07
So that's just a quick hit, but that's one of my faves.
41:09
I love that.
41:10
STICKK.com.
41:11
I'm on the website.
41:12
Yeah.
41:13
I'll put it in the short notes.
41:15
I'm going to, I've got some people I'm going to do this with.
41:18
That's awesome.
41:19
I love it.
41:20
Yeah.
41:21
That's a good.
41:22
Okay.
41:23
You brought, you, you brought up something that's triggered a question for me and hopefully
41:25
we can cover it in the last few minutes here because, you know, you clearly are passionate
41:29
about the mortgage industry and about putting people in homes.
41:33
I don't know if you see this, but I see this, especially when we've got people that
41:36
in the business 20 plus years, where the people, maybe the passion's gone, maybe the shine
41:41
is off.
41:42
Maybe, you know, they're kind of questioning and asking, gosh, I'm just not passionate
41:47
about doing loans.
41:49
Can I still be a successful loan officer?
41:51
What do you, what do you say to that?
41:53
Well, I, you know, surely people can always be successful even if they're, you know,
41:58
have, you know, not as passionate, maybe as they used to be.
42:01
So I'm not going to say it's not, it's not possible, but it's surely not as much fun.
42:05
It's not as much fun.
42:06
You're not going to do a good job.
42:08
And I understand for a lot of us, we've been in the business a long time and we've been
42:13
through a lot.
42:15
So I get it.
42:16
I get it.
42:17
This is life.
42:18
This is just, you know, our lives are that way.
42:19
You know, our personal life is that way, not just their business lives, but this is where
42:23
I think it is critical that you're surrounding yourself.
42:27
I would say two things.
42:28
Number one, you know, look, the company that you're at, you know, the company you keep,
42:32
you know, so are you at a place that's inspiring you?
42:35
Are you at a place that's really, you know, lifting you up and giving you the resources
42:40
that you need and really is also something that, that you can connect to and feel again
42:44
inspired by.
42:45
We always are going to have days that are not, and weeks, you know, Jeff, like you and
42:49
I were talking about earlier, man, some weeks just poppy in the face and you're just like,
42:54
wow, wow, what happened?
42:56
You can get down, but that's where I think, you know, the company that you're at, and
43:01
then secondly, you know, the company and the people, but also I think you actually really
43:06
should proactively seek out, you know, whether it's coaching that you're going to being,
43:11
you know, part of, of, you know, coaching group like yours, going to events, you know,
43:16
plugging in to some of the amazing things and people that are out there connecting and
43:20
getting recharged and rejuvenated is critically important.
43:24
There's so many good things out there.
43:26
There was a huge chunk.
43:27
The first, the whole first part of my career, I wasn't plugged into any of that stuff.
43:31
You know, I was doing my thing and originating, and I remember when I first started going,
43:35
wow, there's all these people out there, you know, there's, you know, Todd Duncan and Greg
43:39
Frost and, you know, like all these, like, you know, amazing people that I didn't even
43:42
know existed.
43:44
And that lifts you up.
43:45
It really does.
43:46
And so I just encourage people, the number one, you know, be at the right company, surround
43:50
yourself with the right people, but plug into the resources and folks that are out there
43:54
like you, Jeff, and, and, you know, the things that you've given to this industry and serving
43:58
in that way, you know, that's where it's at.
44:01
Yeah, the good point, absolutely surround yourself with other people who support you and
44:05
can be there for you when you need it.
44:07
So speaking of being at a place that you're passionate about, tell us about Total Expert.
44:11
Why did you go to Total Expert?
44:13
Oh, I came to Total Expert because, you know, I just saw a company that was operating
44:18
and serving as clients in a way I'd never seen before.
44:20
So Total Expert is really a technology first company.
44:25
It is really what enables, number one, incredible automation, like we were talking about earlier,
44:31
where you've got an automated process, you've got a single system of record where everything's
44:34
in there, and you're able to enable the right automated communications to be taking place
44:40
with your fleets.
44:41
So you're doing that nurturing that we were talking about early on in the call that's
44:44
so incredibly important and P and U up for the right opportunities to go in and convert
44:48
that lead, how you're communicating with people throughout the process, how you're staying
44:53
in contact after that closing takes place for that repeat and referral business and keeping
44:58
that relationship and the partnering tools are like nothing I've ever seen.
45:03
You put these kind of tools as alone after you put these kind of tools in front of a referral
45:09
partner.
45:10
They are compliant to the end degree, like Wiener Brodsky, Mitch Kider, Wiener Brodsky,
45:15
like has vetted the whole thing out and said, man, it's like the most compliant thing
45:18
I've ever seen, but they are unbelievable partner tools to talk about adding value to
45:24
relationships.
45:25
So I came here because I saw a company who was winning and who was killing it and who customers
45:31
love them.
45:32
And it's not very often that you have a technology company of any sort that customers love
45:36
them.
45:37
You know, how much, you know, am I a raving fan of, you know, Excel or anything with Microsoft?
45:43
No, it's a means to an end.
45:45
But when you see people, when I announced that I was coming to Total Expert and all of
45:49
the, you know, comments were like, yay, we love Total Expert.
45:53
Total Expert is awesome.
45:54
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
45:56
That's the company I want to be at and that's why I joined.
45:58
Absolutely.
45:59
I agree.
46:00
So for those that don't know, I have the opportunity to actually experience and work with Total
46:05
Expert on a day-to-day basis.
46:07
And I can just tell you, yeah, it's very powerful and it creates some amazing partnerships
46:11
and relationship opportunities with your referral partners, helps you do the things that we
46:15
talk about, help create your brand, be out there on social media in many different ways.
46:19
So I know we've got a variety of people who listen to this show, both loan officers and
46:24
some managers or executives and companies.
46:26
And so Total Expert is an enterprise solution.
46:29
As a matter of fact, I had Joe on the podcast, gosh, last year.
46:34
Yeah, awesome.
46:35
It's a number 17, so if anybody wants to listen to it, it's mortgagemarketinginstitute.com
46:41
forward slash 17, I believe is where you'll find it.
46:44
But obviously, if you want to learn more about Total Expert and your company, go to Total
46:48
Expert.com, right?
46:49
Yeah, reach on out and let us know we can help.
46:52
Like Jeff said, it is enterprise level, but you know, you can see we're working with
46:56
the best companies in the nation, so ping your leaders and tell them to reach out and
47:00
get in touch with us.
47:02
Right on.
47:03
All right.
47:04
Anything else you want to do?
47:05
You're new and exciting coming for you in 2018?
47:07
No, I'm just, man, I'm excited for the year ahead.
47:10
This is my final year before I turn 50, if I have to be honest.
47:13
And so I haven't only known what all I'm going to do this year.
47:16
I had a big glorious chunk of time off last year.
47:19
I've got a lot of things on my bucket list, not stopped.
47:23
And so this year, I'm just, I'm super excited just to be digging into Total Expert and really
47:27
plugging back into the industry, coming out, you know, I've been out there speaking a
47:31
lot more and just, you know, really excited to hopefully meet a lot of you listening and
47:36
again, just hopefully add value to your lives as well.
47:39
Yeah.
47:40
And by the way, if any of you are out there and you're looking for events to attend and
47:44
you see an event where Sue is going to be, I guess, speaker, make it there.
47:48
Get on a plane, train, automobile, swim, I don't care what you need to do.
47:52
Get your butt there because she's awesome from the stage and really, you know, touches
47:55
your heart.
47:56
And I think makes a big impact on your life, which is why I'm so glad you finally made
48:01
it on the show.
48:02
Thank you so much.
48:03
Yeah.
48:04
No, I hate.
48:05
Thank you so much.
48:06
It's just an absolute honor.
48:07
It really is.
48:08
And I really just honor and appreciate all the time that you all spent listening.
48:12
So, you know, my big takeaway is just grab even one thing.
48:15
Do the one thing off of this call, put it on your calendar and figure out how you're
48:19
going to put it into action.
48:21
My only ask, Jeff.
48:23
Thank you so much, Sue.
48:25
And for listeners, thank you for tuning in.
48:27
We appreciate you as always.
48:29
And if you like today's episode, please remember to leave us a word with you on iTunes
48:32
or Stitcher.
48:33
And we'll see you on the next one.
48:35
Bye for now.
48:36
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
48:39
One more truth in mortgage marketing.
48:41
Get more free training and resources at MortgageMarketingInstitute.com.
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