Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #10: Chris Lamm Getting Serious About Your Career

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Ep #10: Chris Lamm Getting Serious About Your Career · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
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Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute.
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Your number one source for truth in Mortgage Marketing.
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Hey, everybody.
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It's Jeff Zimfer.
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Welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing Radio.
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Without further ado, I want to get right into it because I know my special guest here today
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is busy and we're actually just talking before I hit the record button and talking about
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probably a concept that is very important for most loan officers to hear.
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And so let me just get right into it.
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My guest today is Chris Lamb.
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He's a personal mortgage planner with Commerce Home Mortgage up in Reading, California.
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Chris, welcome to the show.
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Hey, thanks, Jeff.
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It's good to hear from you again.
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Yeah, it's been, I think last time you and I talked what, three, four years maybe?
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Yeah, it's not more.
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It's been quite a while, man.
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Yeah, so I appreciate you making time and as you and I talked about before I hit record
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here is really just trying to update with the audience here of what's really working
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in today's market.
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So you've been out there.
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I think let's kind of pick up for where you and I were chatting right before I hit record,
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which is you told me you decided to get serious about this business in.
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Was it 2008?
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Right.
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Yeah.
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So, and I know you and I talked, at least four years ago, whatever, and you were doing
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back then, I think you were kind of experimental and you may have admitted to having the Bright
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Shiny Object Syndrome, but you've recently I think kind of focused in and really dialed
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into like to use your words, you learn how to become a business person.
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So maybe if you could just reiterate that journey that you've been on.
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Yeah, you know, one of the things I didn't get to tell you at all, it all kind of shifted
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for me in 2009.
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In 2009, I was engaged to be married to my wife Heather and at the time, you know, things
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were going well.
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I was probably helping four or five families a month to get into homes and making a good
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living compared to anybody that I knew at the time and you know, things were good.
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I was night, I think I was, I want to say 19 at the time and you know, I was older than
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that.
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I'm 32 now, whatever.
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It was 2009 and it was about that time that I realized that I had cancer.
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So I got diagnosed with cancer through a series of events and ended up going into chemo
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and you know, long story, but I ended up getting a clean bill of health after going through
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treatment.
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My business kind of shrunk down to nothing.
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And as I started bouncing back, health and health wise, I realized I had to get my business
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up and going.
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And so my wife and I were married at the time.
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We got married right when we found out I was diagnosed with cancer because we wanted
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to live together through that process.
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And when I got my clean bill of health, I was essentially broke down to zero, had lost
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a lot of my referral relationships or they were at least kind of, you know, on the back
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burner because I was sick most of the time for six months and just really didn't have
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much of a business to get back to.
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So I knew I needed an edge.
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I started to turn into some of these shiny objects as we talked about and went to
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do some conferences and you know, at the time, I realized a couple things.
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Number one, I realized if I was going to have a healthy marriage, I was going to have
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to learn how to work at nine to five schedule and I was going to have to stop doing stuff
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after five, six o'clock at night, I was going to have to have my weekends because my wife
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was a very healthy person and she just wasn't going to accept me having just being a work
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of holic and always looking at marketing stuff and checking email and just being really
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compulsive with my business.
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And so I knew I needed to change that.
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I also knew that I was kind of at a ceiling with my business.
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I was doing four for five loans a month in extreme cases.
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I'd hit eight or nine loans a month and I wasn't able to really break through that.
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And I knew that I needed to and I didn't know how I didn't know what that next step
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was.
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I heard rumors of people having these great businesses where they're doing more volume
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and they're able to kind of create some revenue to have a team and do these different
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things, have systems and when I would become exposed to people like that, it's almost
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as if they made it look easy and I'm pulling my hair out just doing four or five loans
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a month wondering how the heck they're doing that.
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So it was around this time that a really good friend of mine named Paul had turned
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me on to some calls that were being done with the core and I got turned on to these guys
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and long story longer.
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I went to their event and was exposed to a bunch of really, really high producing loan
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officers that had claimed to not only have their businesses in great places but to have
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great systems, great structure and a schedule that allowed them to be free at when they're
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at home and they even take a couple of vacations a year and I had never been exposed to that
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before.
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These guys were doing it and I kind of bought in hookline and sinker and since then my business
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has been, you know, it's just been different, a lot different in every way, does that
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make sense?
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Yeah, how long have you been with them?
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I've been exposed to them since 2009.
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I went to a couple of their summit events for probably two or three years before I became
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one of their level three coaching students which is the highest coaching platform they
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offer.
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I've been doing that for a little over three years now.
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Wow.
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And so what's the, what does your business look like today?
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You know, you talked about four or five families helping, what does that look like now?
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It's a lot different.
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So last month, just for example, I did 34 units for about seven and a half million.
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Wow.
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I've got about 13 people in total in my branch, I've got three loan officers now that
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I'll do about a million or a million and a half a month.
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I've got my own team.
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I've got a call center now with two dialers.
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So yeah, I mean, it's completely different than it where it was.
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The one guy show sitting behind a little cubicle and now I have my own branch and, and you
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know, the biggest thing that I would say is, you know, I went on vacation a couple of
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weeks ago as you know, and I didn't check my email the entire time.
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I came back and had had had the biggest month of my career and I was on vacation for
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10 days of it.
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And there's not one complaint, not one loan closed late.
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All my surveys were 9s and 10s and my team was happy and they were proud and they were
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working like a team and they were all really, really stoked with, with, you know, helping
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34 families in one month.
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So, so yeah, I mean, that's, that's the biggest thing there is I actually got my life back
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in, you know, it's like I tell people all the time in this business, I believe you can
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have your cake and eat it too.
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I know people that do and I'm one of those people and it's been an amazing journey getting
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to this point.
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Well, hey, Kudos to you, man.
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You've been through a lot and, you know, I think you're coming at this from the right
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perspective as well, right, in terms of who you are and you're, you're helping families.
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So granted, you get to make a great income, but you know, you see it as doing more than
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that.
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I think that shows up as well in terms of how people experience, right, you as they go
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through your process.
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I can just tell that, you know, not even having gotten a loan from you.
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I know it's a good experience.
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So I want to cut, let's, let's, that's a great story, by the way, thanks for sharing.
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Let's, let's focus on just a few things that are working really well for you.
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Now, obviously, you know, you've got systems in place and things like that, but for kind
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of the, the, the mortgage loan officer who's where you were, right, back at that ceiling
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of four or five loans a month, what are the things that you do now that you learn, learn
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through the core or wherever that are consistently bringing in, you know, tangible results for
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you, whether it's a realtor side or consumer, what would you say?
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Yeah, well, you know, I, I don't want to keep bringing the core up just because I don't
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think that they're the only way, you know, so I want to be very clear that I don't think
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my path is the only path.
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I think one of the reasons why I love this business so much and why I think that a lot
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of people in real estate lending or either or love this business is because there's
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more than one way to skin a cat.
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There's people that have success with marketing the builders only and build up these real
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big builder accounts, there's, there's people that specialize in rehab loans and build
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great careers or VA loans right next door to a, you know, an air base or something like
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that.
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For me, though, what I've learned is, you know, this three very simple steps, again, this
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isn't, I didn't invent this, it's what I've been tied is number one, prospecting is has
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been key, you know, picking up the phone and putting down all these, the shiny objects
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and making calls, setting appointments and building relationships with real estate agents
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and influential people like HR managers or CPAs and financial planners and doing it a lot.
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So that's been very, very key for me is, is making sure that I'm always on the phone,
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building, nurturing and going after relationships.
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The second part I would say is tracking my results, you know, before I, I really started
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taking this serious, I, I really didn't know what my results were going to be from one
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month to the next and now I track everything.
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I track the amount of calls I make, the amount of people I talk to, I track the amount of
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the leads I get, the ones that are converted, where they're coming from, track everything
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weekly, monthly, quarterly and, you know, just like any business.
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If you don't track, if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business.
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I mean, that's something that Marcus Limones on the, the profit always says and I think
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that's perfect, a perfect line for anybody is if you don't know where you've been, you
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don't know where you're going.
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So, you know, really starting to break your business down into, into numbers and tracking
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what you're doing is, is, is also big and, and then the second thing is, you know, since
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the financial crisis, it, it just, the fact of the matter is it takes five times of people
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to close alone.
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So, you know, one of the common things I see is that a lot of people are like me, under
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staffed and they don't start asking for help or trying to hire people or learning to
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delegate until they're already way too behind and, and they're already suffering.
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They're business is suffering, their relationships are suffering and that's when they kind of
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ask for help and then they're too busy at that time to learn how to delegate and actually
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figure out the proper way to do it because it's a learn skill and so it doesn't work
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and then they just say that doesn't work, you know, and that's the hard part is people
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have to realize that delegation is not a rocket science, anyone can do it but you have
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to, if to learn how to do it and in many ways it's kind of counterintuitive at first
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because you're spending money to hire someone and, you know, you kind of take two steps
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backwards at first to learn how to launch forward if that makes sense.
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No, it is.
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Yeah, yeah, it does.
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I like with you how you brought up Marcus Lomonas from the profit, people process, people
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process and technology, it's what he talks about a lot and so, you know, I think you're
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alluding to that through this conversation that you got, you've built a good team, it sounds
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like right, with other people that can help you, you've got the right processes in place
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to streamline to perhaps offload as well from you so you can focus on core activities
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and then, right, technology to build a better manage kind of all the moving parts and the
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growth in your business as well, it sounds like you've got kind of all those pieces running
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simultaneously.
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Yeah, yeah, I mean that's, it's never, it's never in a sweet spot, I mean as soon as you
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think you got it rolling, one of the wheels goes flat and you got to turn back to that
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and give it attention, but, you know, you can sequentially learn in this business how
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to build a team, you know, starting with one person and if you do that and you do it well,
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the end result is it's going to free up bandwidth for you to go out and nurture your relationship,
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build more relationships, pick up that one extra refi call that you never had time for
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before that ends up calling your competitor and locking that rate.
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I mean, the business is there.
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Most of us just don't have the time to catch it because we're so busy putting out fires
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and, you know, just doing things that aren't high level activities, we're not selling.
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So we're not able to get those few extra deals and what I've learned is, you know, whether
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someone really wants to be a huge producer or not doing volume in this business is the
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safest way in my opinion to have a great business that lasts for years to come because if you
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have the revenue there and you can hire the people and it's just a much better way to
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do business in my opinion.
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Yeah.
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Agreed.
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So doing volume.
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Let's talk about that.
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It's funny.
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I have multiple thoughts flowing through my head here because I'm remembering back to
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when you and I originally connected, I might have came about because of my book and you
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doing events and that's a large part of what my book was about, but I remember you back
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then doing something called like a headshot happy hour.
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You remember that?
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Yeah.
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I do remember that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I thought it was a great idea because you were doing, you know, how many realtors
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need to update their, you know, their photo, right, and get their more, more modern picture
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going.
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So that was a great idea.
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But in terms of volume, let's, what I was getting at was this is, I'm surprised at
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the number of mortgage professionals that cross my path, like I just had one the other
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day.
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This gentleman's been in the business 25 years and didn't do, let's say, isn't where
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he's at or wants to be when it comes to having that stable base of realtor referral
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relationships.
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Yeah.
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So I'm thinking after 25 years, man, if that guy still having a tough time with it, why,
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right?
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What's the problem?
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And so, and I'm just kind of throwing that out there, what would you advise or let me,
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what are you doing to, to fill your realtor bucket and continue to, you know, build your,
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your team there?
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Yeah.
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You know, that's a really good question.
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It's, it's not easy to manage your pipeline, close your loans on time and nurture the relationships
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that you have at the same time, let alone go out and try to build new ones.
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So to be honest with you, that's all rooted in the two things that I said.
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Number one, you got to prospect and build new relationships.
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Number two, you got to make sure you have the team, the cater to your clients so that
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when you do catch a realtor and they send you the first, second, and third referral and
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you, it needs to go off without a hitch and they need to be impressed.
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And I would say the third thing is, is you got to bring value to these realtors, man,
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because they're just, you know, when rates go up, which, you know, they, they have a couple
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times in the last five years and, and these, these other lenders that are right now sitting
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behind their desk doing refires, get out from their desk and go chase realtors, everyone
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can close loans on time, everyone gives good rates and everyone has the same product.
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So you have to find a way to give more value than that and it doesn't have to be this big
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grandiose thing.
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What I found is you just got to have the time to build a relationship and if you can build
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value with these realtors and there's hundreds and thousands of way to do that and be consistent
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with what you're doing, then that's the key there.
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And so, so, you know, again, without picking up the phone and calling these realtors and
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building new relationships because you got to do that.
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Some realtors have a great year and the next year they got a business and some realtors
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die and some realtors, you know, they, whatever, there's just, there's things to happen.
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So you always got to be building new relationships all the time and then the second part is you
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got to be able to execute and have transactional execution at a high level.
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I mean, that's just a must in this world.
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You can't have excuses.
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Oh, the CD went out late.
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We're working on it.
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That stuff just doesn't work anymore.
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And so you've got to own your business, you've got to own your team and you can't have
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excuses.
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You've got to close your loans.
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You've got to have a really well oiled machine and then you got to bring value to your
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realtors.
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And if you do that, you're going to, you're not going to have those problems because the
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realtors you have will stick with you.
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The ones you call will be happy you're calling and want to work with you because you've got
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a good reputation and that has been my experience.
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And I think that that's probably what this guy in some fashion probably needs to look at.
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So great, great points.
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So let's get specific.
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What would your suggestions be on how you would add value or what have you had done historically
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to add value?
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I mentioned obviously, headshot happy hour, I've done multiple types of events, but anything
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kind of stand out for you that really you think resonates with agents in adding value.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, for me, the level that I'm at now being in this for 12, 13 years in a very small
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town, 96,000 people, there's not a lot of agents here that don't know who I am.
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And we probably only have 250 agents in our county and there's probably only about 50
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or 60 to the do 80% of the business.
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So it's a really small market.
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And if they're not currently referring to me, they've been listing agents that I've done
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deals with.
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So it helps that I have a consistent, you know, record of closing loans, you know, with
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little to no problems and usually always on time.
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And one of the things I've learned though is that's not enough.
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You still have to be in a relationship and, you know, in the last couple of years, I've
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noticed that there's eight, there's lenders in my town who have a really bad reputation
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with closing loans on time and, you know, just other things.
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And there's still agents that refer to these guys and, you know, I've kind of looked at
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it and investigated it and the reason why is because they know them and they like them.
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You know, that's just the oldest sales thing is that people do business with people they
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know and people they like.
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And so what I think that the key is for me with that in value, it's not necessarily
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that I have the next greatest and latest shiny tool to bring to them.
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It's that I'm available to them and that I actually take the time to spend with them
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and sometimes, you know, some agents I try to break something down that's just so rudimentary
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that, you know, you would think that any realtor knows it but they don't know it and I paid
19:37
attention to them and listen and, you know, instead of trying to sell them on this ten-point
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marketing program, maybe they just need to learn how to create some email rules so they
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can stop having 200 emails in their inbox.
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And so I think the key is really trying to understand your realtor and find out where
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their pain is and bring in a solution to that exact pain because for every realtor,
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it's different and you can do these lunch and learns and present these great things.
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But at the end of the day, if a realtor doesn't have a CRM and doesn't categorize their
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leads, they probably shouldn't be worried about getting new leads because they're not
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taking care of the leads I have.
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So it's really simple stuff most of the time.
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It's nothing new and it's just basic sales 101 stuff that a lot of these agents need
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help with or need reminders of or in some cases, I'll pay some of my staff members to do
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it for them to help them automate it and get the ball rolling.
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So that's how I do it.
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I really try.
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I've learned how to listen.
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I used to talk a lot and I'm getting better at taking the cotton out of my mouth and
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rad them out of my ears and putting in my mouth and trying to listen and pay attention
20:43
to people.
20:44
Does that make sense?
20:45
Yeah, it does.
20:46
Very good.
20:47
Thank you.
20:48
So it sounds like then you're actually when you meet with agents, you have some type
20:49
of a question error needs assessment.
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You go through to identify those areas of opportunity.
20:54
Yeah, I do.
20:55
I do.
20:56
And it's not written out and it used to be, for me now, it's just, it's usually three
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simple questions.
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You know, the first question is, is where do you want to be?
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Where is this all going?
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And you know, that could be a whole hour conversation because most of them haven't
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thought past that.
21:12
It just got their license and they hung it with the broker and they're out trying to
21:15
be a realtor and they haven't thought about retirement or, you know, how much volume
21:21
they want to do or what kind of business they want to have.
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Do they want to do more listings?
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Do they want to do more buyers?
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Do they want to eventually grow their business?
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Do they want to become a broker?
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And so a lot of them, they haven't even thought that far ahead.
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So, you know, we'll stop there and then we'll have a follow up meeting.
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You know, the second question is usually, what is your plan to accomplish whatever goal
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you have?
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And a lot, they rarely have a plan for it.
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It's, if it happens, it's going to be by accident.
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It's not going to be by design because there is no plan in place.
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And then the third question is, is can I help you with this?
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And if I can do these things, would you consider making me your business partner?
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And that's kind of how I do it.
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And, you know, I've learned how to do the two-step close from the core and basically what
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that means is I don't try to diagnose a problem and solve it in the first meeting.
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I try to find a way to find out what the problem is, listen, pay attention, then tell them
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I'm going to get back to them and then have a follow up meeting where I bring some solutions
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to the table.
22:23
Yeah, no, this is very, it's kind of like a doctor patient thing, right?
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You're like a diagnosis there.
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And then what's great about that is it gives you a chance to sincerely think about, right?
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What solutions could you bring to the table to help them?
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And how do you find that in terms of like, you know, you said, you know, your numbers
22:40
and all that, not to put you on the spot, but conversion-wise, that process, how does
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that work?
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Is that a pretty good conversion?
22:49
You know, it can be.
22:50
I mean, the hard part with agents are with any relationship is that they take time to
22:56
get off the ground.
22:58
You know, you just, it's just tough.
23:00
I would say my conversion ratio, and that's something I actually need to track better.
23:06
You know, this last year, my goal was to, it wasn't really to grow as much as just to
23:11
take better care of the relationships I have, but I would say if I, if I meet an agent
23:17
and I go through this process, there's about an 80% chance that they will become my partner.
23:22
All right.
23:23
That's really good conversion, man, 80%.
23:25
So the, go ahead.
23:27
I was going to say, well, they stay my partner is a whole other story, you know, because
23:31
I do, I have a team and my business is different than a lot of people.
23:36
So, you know, there is, I do occasionally have agents that they get sold that using the
23:43
one, one shot, one person loan offshore down in some offices the way to go, and so working
23:49
with a team sometimes has cost me and in relationships.
23:53
And though I feel that it gives better service, some agents just are ignorant to that and
23:58
the relationship doesn't work.
23:59
Hey, guys, what's up?
24:01
Real quick.
24:02
You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before, and I just want to quickly
24:05
remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply need more purchased
24:09
loans.
24:10
You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business.
24:12
Let's just face it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase
24:17
business for you.
24:18
Well, good news.
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Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more loans
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Everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert
24:38
agents into referral partners.
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that's not all.
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You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls with top LOs, authors, speakers and
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25:15
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So what are you waiting for?
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You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the success stories there.
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And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat.
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