Latest / The Nonprofit Podcast / Ep 205| Ethical Persuasion in Fundraising: Inspire Without Pressure

Transcript

Ep 205| Ethical Persuasion in Fundraising: Inspire Without Pressure · The Nonprofit Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fundraising works best when people feel good about saying yes.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not pressured, not confused, not second-guessing the decision they just made, but clear, confident, and connected to what they're supporting.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: The Nonprofit Podcast, powered by DonorBucks.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jenna Lynch, head of community engagement here at DonorBox.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we bring you practical strategies, clear insights, and inspiration to help you raise more, reach further, and take your nonprofit to the next level.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are talking about ethical persuasion and fundraising, or what we've been calling fundraising that feels good.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not instead of performance and optimization, but alongside it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because the best fundraising doesn't just drive action in the moment, it builds trust and makes people want to come back.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I am so glad to be joined by Maria Bryan.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: She is our partnership marketing manager here at Donorbox and also the founder and facilitator of When Bearing Witness, where she trains change makers to tell impactful stories that resist harm.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Maria, welcome.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Jenna.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: What a joy to be on the show.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I love this topic.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for having me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think this conversation has been something that we've been chatting about a bit in the last couple of months.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this feels like one of those topics, too, that people experience all the time, but maybe they don't have the language for or can't really put their finger on it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many mixed messages in this space.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that you've seen and heard a lot of them in your experience and your work in the nonprofit sector and in marketing.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: We are told to use urgency, apply all the donor psychology, optimize your donation forms for conversion, and also make it as easy as possible for someone to give.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, not pushy.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: It can feel like, okay, how am I supposed to do all of these things all at once, right?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're really all just trying to get it right.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you want to raise money for your mission, um, you want to be effective, but you also want to feel good about how you're doing it and you want your donors to feel good.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about ethical persuasion, which to be honest, I don't know if this is a term that we made up or uh if this is actually a term that exists in the sector.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But so when you think about ethical persuasion and fundraising, how would you define that?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love the I love the phrase ethical persuasion.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this is why there is a movement towards uh community-centric fundraising, which I'm a huge supporter of.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And how can we protect our communities and the people that bravely share their stories?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: But there's other ways that we can be trauma-informed and ethical.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're talking about today is the ask.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're not talking about our the community that we work with.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're talking about our donors and our supporters.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: How can we be trauma-informed and ethical when building relationships with them?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we forget that.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: We forget that we have an impact on our donors with our communications and messaging, and especially during this really important interaction of that ask.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is ethical persuasion?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is making the ask, and we want to make the ask.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is not about not asking and just hoping people will come, right?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: It is about boldly, bravely making an ask because we are moving money to our mission.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: So just cheers to fundraisers that are doing the hard work of moving money towards making the world a better place.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, what it means to do so ethically is really doesn't have to be complicated.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's making sure the pathways to give are clear and respectful.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: It means that you are supporting someone, helping someone through making a generous decision without using pressure or confusion, but most especially, you want them to feel that they have agency and control.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So persuasion is the ask.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it just means you're asking in a way where folks feel that they are making a decision from a place of agency and confidence, hope and inspiration, not from a place of being pushed in a corner, guilt or shame.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's where people get stuck because you know, ethical can sound like it means softer or less effective.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: When it's really what you just said, it's about being more intentional with how the ask shows up.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to get a little bit behind the why.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So my work specifically is how to be trauma informed as nonprofit practitioners, especially as fundraisers and marketers.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're like, wow, I really want to do this, but there's no way that this is gonna fly in our organization.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: We what we do works.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So why would we do something that might water down what we're doing?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the the honest truth your communications and your ask, even if it wins, even if it ends in a donation, if you are causing some kind of a discomfort, a dysregulation, even though they made that donation, they are making lifelong negative associations with your nonprofit.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we think about a lot of these campaigns that were in the 80s, 90s, and aughts that leaned so heavy into guilt and shame, I just wonder how many of those people gave once because they just needed to shake off the ick from watching those kinds of PSAs.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And how many of those became lifelong supporters because they gave from a place of ease and inspiration.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just about doing what's right.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's about doing what's right, but it's more than that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in the business of relationship building as a fundraiser, making sure that you're asking in a way that, again, regulates the nervous system, makes folks feel confident in their decision is an important key to building trust in those long-lasting donor relationships.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when you were saying, okay, we experienced this quite a bit in the 90s, 2000s, uh, my mind automatically went to some campaigns that I saw on TV.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to call this out, but can you walk through uh an example or two you've seen, especially in the language or in the wording, where something is meant to drive that action, that urgency, convey that importance, but it just hasn't landed well.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe how you would adjust it so that it so it feels better.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about language, and then I also want to talk about tools.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to language, one of the biggest red flags is leaning into guilt and shame, which can be deceiving.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're hearing phrases like for the cost of a cup of coffee, you can save a life.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or any kind of comparison to your life.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, this creates this us and them separation between us and the organization and the people they support.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Already you're building these power imbalances that create systematic problems that brought us here to begin with.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's problematic for the people that we work with and that we serve, but it's also problematic with our audiences because folks, again, if if you are guilting someone or shaming someone into giving, they're giving from a place that again can be dysregulated.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: They'll start to feel cautious, they'll start to feel like they're being cornered.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And even if they in their mind don't know that, their body is picking up on I feel like I need to give, but I'm not, but it doesn't feel good, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why does this not feel good even though I'm doing something that is going to make this situation better?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of using language like don't let them down, um, comparing your lifestyle to their lifestyle, and you have so much to give and they have so little.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's remind folks that they're part of this community.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when when you give, you help us to reach more folks because of your gift.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: This work is providing more meals.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: More than that, Jenna, it is not a watered-down messaging to give options on how folks can participate in your mission.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, this is how we move out of guilt and towards agency.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can give one time, you can give monthly, you can show up to volunteer, you can spread our message to your friends, neighbors, and loved ones.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: When you give choice to folks, um, then they're going to give out of place of excitement and inspiration and again out of agency, um, which foundation for for building trust.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when that new ask comes around, the feeling in their body is going to be different.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be a positive association because they really gave from a place of this is what I have to give, and I'm happy to give it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's spot on.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So you just hinted towards the donation experience itself.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I do want to talk about that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I want to go back to how we can kind of check ourselves in this language.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: But oftentimes when people end up on your donation page, on your donation form, they've already kind of decided to give or they're they're quite close to getting there.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're ready.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're at their page, they're ready.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and there can be small things on that page, whether that's the words or the level of agency that they have uh on the form itself that start to interrupt it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um absolutely.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So the first part of what we're talking about is how do we make sure that folks are emotionally, mentally ready and they feel like they're giving out of a place of agency.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're on your website and they're ready to give.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: The last thing you want is to get that momentum interrupted, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're they're coming to you and they're um they're ready to give, if there's confusion on how to give, if it feels like options are being chosen for them, again, this is where agency feels like it's being taken away.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did I get to this monthly giving page?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to give monthly.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get back to just giving one gift?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: If it starts to get confusing, if again it starts to feel a little bit manipulative, they're gonna say, wait, wait, what am I agreeing to?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you got them there emotionally, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And now they're making the gift.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: And this is to me is just as important.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if there is too much language, if every time they fill out a form, there another screen is popping up to fill out more information.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: If there's surprise fees, if there's confirmations that that seem a little strange, um, it's going to reinforce some kind of hesitation that they might have.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that experience, again, it's all about making folks feel regulated and safe.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and part of that is just making sure that they trust that they're this is a secure way to give, and that they're not feeling now that they're ready to give, manipulated to give in ways that they didn't show up to your landing page for.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it's not one big issue with the giving experience, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's those small things, little things, really little things.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Those confusing options, too many steps, and then maybe you've taken the time, five minutes to go all the way through this form.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've filled out all the steps, and you're like, oh, well, shoot, I've already done this, now I have to pay it how much of a fee, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um something unexpected that just makes someone pause.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think uh when we we talk about ethics and fundraising, I don't think a lot of people think about how having the right tool matters.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a a good platform should really support that moment and give clear choices, make things easy to understand, and gently invite donors into something like monthly giving without forcing it, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, oh, this is your only option, but it could be a gentle nudge.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Even even features like our recurring upsell, it's a gentle invitation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, would you like to consider this?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if not, that's okay.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can click the X and continue with your one-time gift, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that's also where this gets bigger than just the moment.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Even if something technically works, as you said, short term, you've you're bringing in those gifts.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, regardless of how you're checking yourself here, people remember how it felt to give.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there is a balance between what drives action now and what build trust over time.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're absolutely right.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's that moment that a donor gives, especially for the first time, it's making an imprint on them.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's making a huge imprint, again, in their body, like in their mind, in their in their hearts.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't take that lightly, either how the messaging brings them there.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then once they they come to the landing page, I want to reiterate something important that you're saying.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that is keep making that ask, keep cultivating.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're not saying not to cultivate, we're just saying do so in a way that allows folks to make that decision on their own and makes it easy for them to make that decision.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, when someone does become a recurring donor through donor box, they have a portal where they can make all kinds of choices on how much they give and how often they give.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you're about to become a monthly donor and you're like, but who knows what's going to happen six months from now?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: It would be mortifying to have to call them and cancel.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: What if I just want to give um quarterly instead of monthly?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Even though I feel good about this decision now, what will this mean long term?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just again, provide space for safety and agency when you say, hey, this is in your control.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for committing at this time.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you can change at any time.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone is building a campaign through their emails, their social, their fundraising pages, or they're adjusting their ask for their annual campaign, general campaign, whatever that is, um, is there a framework or a set of principles that you would recommend they come back to?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would say take a look at your messaging, both your messaging before you get to the landing page and of course your giving landing page.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I walk people through the four C's of trauma-informed fundraising or trauma-informed copywriting.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: The four C's are clarity, choice, consent, and compassion.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Clarity is where your donation tools come in.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is it really crystal clear?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I love DonorBox has that sticky donation button that follows them wherever they go.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do they feel like it's easy to give?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: They understand what they're giving to, where that money is going to end up, and is the process easeful?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So clarity is any time that we can remove jargon and make it as seamless as possible to give.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Then we have choice.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: The second C is choice.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where we always want folks to know that they can be ongoing donors, right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: They can be monthly or quarterly donors, but we want to make sure we're not making that choice for them.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Make it abundantly clear on the different ways that folks can give.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: They can give a one-time gift and then later become an ongoing gift giver, or they can become a monthly donor.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure that when you are building that out on your landing page, that the choice is clear on how they can give and how frequently they give.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: The third C is consent.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever landed in someone's email list or on a page and you're not quite sure how you got there?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I would audit your call to action buttons on your website.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are saying something about learn more about our mission and it just goes to the giving page, that's tricky.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like no one really asked to end up there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if so, if you're trying to walk folks through following your social media and your email, all these touch points, if folks feel like they ended up on your email list or they ended up on your landing page to give, and that's not where they wanted to go, that's making an imprint on them.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, is compassion.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: The fourth C is compassion.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: We often want to give a megaphone to our mission and the pain and the trauma that they are experiencing.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I would never say that we need to water down the painful experiences, but let's be mindful that our donors are people and they likely have the same lived experiences.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So any trauma-informed practices and gentleness that we have with our community, we should mirror that for our donors.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: If every ask is give now, if there's any sense of urgency, I would love for you to A B test with using the phrase, when you're ready, give here.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that we can start a movement of just inviting people to give when they're ready, because they're not going to suddenly feel like they are not going to give because they were given the choice.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're actually more likely to give because they've been given a choice.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Let them decide naturally that this is an urgent matter.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to dictate that to them.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a big overhaul.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is a very clear path.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: It can be as simple as changing a couple of words, as simple as uh taking away fields that are not necessary, as simple as um checking how you're framing urgency and being really intentional about how you're showing up, how you're honoring the community that you're serving, uh, but also empowering your donors and helping them feel good.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you just walked through this framework, thinking about all this.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: If someone had 10 minutes this week to look at one fundraising touch point, whether that's their email, their campaign, their donation page, um give me one thing that you'd tell them to check right now.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Go to your landing page where folks end up when they are ready to donate.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Go through all, even if you like print it out and get a red pen.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or I'm sure you could do this digitally.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: We're like elder millennials.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: What do I know?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: But how can you audit that page from top to bottom and circle or note all the places a donor has control?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Look at the language, look at the fields, look at the toggles.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Look all the places that they can have control and make sure that those places are useful.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: If it looks like you're using urgency where it's not necessary, change that to be a quick sentence.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Again, something simple from um give now to save a life to when you're ready, here are ways that you can give.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think even those small changes can make such a big difference and it can truly change how the experience feels.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and I think the takeaway here is that those small experiences really do add up.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: When those moments feel clear and respectful and easy to move through, people are much more likely to say yes and remember feeling good about it for a long time.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Any closing thoughts or words of wisdom as we wrap up?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, my I just leave with all of you first of all, so much love for moving money into your mission.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And also, fundraising doesn't need to be coercive to be effective.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: We can be compassionate and we can give agency and safety and still reach all of our fundraising goals.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Maria.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: This has been a really thoughtful conversation, and I appreciate you.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for being part of the nonprofit podcast community.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Your work matters, and we are honored to support it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, share it, leave a review, or subscribe to our YouTube channel.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, take that first step and stay inspired.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: That warm feeling when you help someone, it's not just happiness, it's fulfillment.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we believe it should be available to everyone.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: From frontline heroes to first time fundraisers.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Our tools empower you to help others.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is our mission.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is Donorbox, helping you help others.