Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 540 | Show Me You Know Me: Why Manners Win Millions in Sales with Sam McKenna

Transcript

Ep. 540 | Show Me You Know Me: Why Manners Win Millions in Sales with Sam McKenna · The Prompt

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This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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pressing B to B go to market challenges.
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Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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Everyone, welcome back to the home based podcast.
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I'm your host, Chris Moody. And today we're very excited to
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have Sam McKenna with us to talk about redefining cell success,
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the power of show me, You know me, Sam.
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Thanks for joining us today and welcome to the show.
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Hi, Chris, Thank you for having me excited to talk about Show
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Me. You know me always.
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Yes, me too. I'm pumped to jump in before we
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even do that. You have a very interesting
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background. We talked a little bit about
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that before we press record. Could you talk to folks about
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your journey and what led you to what you're doing today?
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Yeah, I think much like everybody, I did not grow up
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wanting to be a salesperson, was not in my hopes and dreams of
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being a ballerina and, you know, chimed in there, but ultimately
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got a job in sales back in gosh, in 2008.
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The crash was just happening around us.
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All sorts of weird things were going on in the market.
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And I actually got laid off and was then offered a job in sales.
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And I thought, you know what? No, that sounds terrible because
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sales still has this reputation, right, of being not a glamorous
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career. And in fact, it is such a
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fabulous 1. So I actually turned it down at
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first, ended up pushing back. Hiring manager ended up pushing
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back and saying, what if we give you an extra $5000?
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Would that seal the deal? And I was like, you bet.
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I was an amazing negotiator even back then.
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And so I started there as an account manager.
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It's not a lot of success. Ultimately got hired by another
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company where I spent six years, then got recruited by LinkedIn,
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another job that, even though it was the Holy Grail for me of
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places to work, I turned down at first this time because I
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thought I would get lost in a sea of employees that worked
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there. They politely declined my
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decline and I ended up getting to work there for 19 months
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before spinning out and starting Sam Sales.
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And I think for me, I had seen so much success in sales from
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breaking every record imaginable, multiple presence,
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club Rep of the year, all that stuff over and over again.
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And it was really just by doing things differently.
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The opposite of basically everything that you're taught to
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do in sales is what made me successful.
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So I thought after LinkedIn and my success there, I wonder how
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many other people I could help if I started my own venture.
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So the whole goal of Sam Sales was to do two or three clients,
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make half the money I made in SAS and call it a day.
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And we're now an all women team of almost 20 / 250 clients and
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almost 6 years old. So we've done OK so far, but
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keep it coming. We've done OK so far.
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Yeah, 20 Evil, you know well that going from breaking sales
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records to thought leader on LinkedIn.
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I know that it's never a completely linear path or
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something that you think about, but tell us a little bit more
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about that transition and journey.
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Yeah, so I was working at this company in Richmond, VA.
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We had about 25,000,000 in revenue.
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So we're, we're a small shop and I would start to talk about
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these things that I would do in sales with literally 6 minutes
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of experience. And my CEO or my SVP of sales,
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you know, people who have come from Dun and Bradstreet like
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just storied sales careers would say that's a great idea or I
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never thought of that. Or then I would have my peers
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that have been in sales for five or six years ask me for advice.
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And I'm like, why the hell are you guys in those leadership
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seats or why are you have you been in sales for so long and
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you've never thought to do these things?
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So I thought, you know what, if I can help this team and our
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tiny company, why don't I post on LinkedIn and start to share
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there? So very first post I wrote was
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believe it or not, about show me, you know me.
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It was in 2011. Yes, I pulled the data and we
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have a record of every mind net numbing post I have written on
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LinkedIn. But it was just really cool
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because with that very first post, a company reached out for
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those of you oh jeers, you might remember Sales Hacker, which was
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unacquired by Outreach and is now part of the GTM Fund team
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where I'm an LP. But Sales Hacker reached out and
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they said this is a great post. We have a bunch of topics you
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want to come and write for us. Here are 6 topics you could
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write on. And I was like, Oh my God, I'll
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write on all six. And they were like, still your
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roll tiger, you can write on one, let's see how you do and
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then come back. And I was like, Oh my God, this
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is amazing. So I got that chance.
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And then I just started to post and post and post.
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And I thought, you know, the only reason I was doing it was
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in the age of everybody can be a LinkedIn influencer today.
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It wasn't about that. And influencers weren't even a
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thing in 2000 and 11/12/13. I just wanted to do it to help.
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But one really cool thing that we saw is that leads started to
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come from it. Of course, it was never leads
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for my team ever. But one amazing strategy for
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those of you who are out there and are posting track to see
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what leads do come from your work.
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So when somebody reaches out and says we'd love to work with you,
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who should we talk to track that.
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Make an introduction to the Rep and the leader.
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Keep a list of it. Make a list in Salesforce or in
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Dynamics. Look to see what pipeline comes
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of it. That's exactly what I did
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because at the end of the year, imagine you going to your boss
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and saying, well, I did it again in a more humble way, but I did
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it again. Crush my quota 132%.
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But also because of all the extracurricular activities that
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I do, I was able to drive $3,000,000 in pipeline 55
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meetings, XYZ closed one opportunities as a result of my
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demand generation efforts. Holy hell, what an amazing thing
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to do for your company. And as you build that brand,
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people get to know you. They think, they learn how you
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think. You build a network online and
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you carry that with you wherever you go.
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I love that it's so true and the world gets smaller the more we
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do that. The world gets very, very small,
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Sam. A lot of folks know about buyers
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1st and that approach to sales, but I don't think as many know
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about manners first. I'd love to hear about how both
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of those have shaped your success over the years.
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Yeah. So I, I think a lot of
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organizations think think they know buyers first, but it's
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really, it always comes back to sellers 1st.
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And I think that that's also why sales has such a bad reputation.
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I was on the phone with Paul Stanczyk the other day.
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It was a partner of Parker Gale and he said the bars on the
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floor, you just need to step over it.
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And sales, I used to say the bar was low, but he said the bars on
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the floor. And I'm like, I think that's
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actually the right way to put it.
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And so in sales, we don't often think about buyer first.
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We don't make the investment, we don't do our research, we don't
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think about them and how we can help them.
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We just think about asking them bant figuring out Med pick,
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qualifying them for an opportunity instead of saying,
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you know what, I'm going to show up to this call and I'm going to
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see how I can help them solve a challenge and hopefully it's via
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what I sell. So that's a buyer first piece,
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right, like doing our research. But the manners driven piece,
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right is how do we incorporate all these things throughout the
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process to make them feel like they're having an exceptional
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process, not just a sales experience.
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So that's show me you know me piece doing our research in
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advance to me as a manners first approach.
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It's showing good manners being prepared for the call.
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It's showing that we put the time in right and appreciation
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of them giving us time. We're going to do our research.
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It's thinking about what do we do when we lose the deal?
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What do most reps do when they lose the deal?
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Some don't respond at all. Some respond and are
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argumentative. Some are not polite and say your
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loss. We've all been there.
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We've gotten great responses when we say, hey, we decide to
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go in a different direction. But to me, gratitude, right, is
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a manners driven approach. So saying we really understand
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one, we'd love your feedback, right?
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We want to learn. This is use this as a learning
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opportunity. What could we have done
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differently? Is it our product?
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Was it our sales process? Was it something with our
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integrations? Like any feedback you can share
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would help us grow, not make the same mistakes or improve our
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product. So even just the gratitude of
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coming back that way and of showing that you're not
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defensive, but you're wanting feedback to learn is huge or
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even thinking about something so small that happens every day.
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We send out these emails to sellers and sometimes,
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especially if you do show me your know me and your approach,
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sometimes people respond and they'll say, Chris, thanks for
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reaching out, really appreciate it.
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Now it's not the right time, but great e-mail.
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And then what happens? The seller hits delete and moves
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on with their lives. You just got a response.
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You got the thing that you were fighting for every single day
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and you couldn't even be bothered to respond and say
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thank you so much for responding to my e-mail.
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So manners first approach, I think frankly is less about a
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focus on you and thinking about the buyer and what you can do to
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be good, to be gracious, right, and to show up in a different
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way. Yeah, I love that.
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And I think we've all done that. As soon as you said it, I'm sure
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every single person listening is thinking, Oh yeah, I remember
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that one great e-mail or great LinkedIn message that did
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breakthrough and I opened it and said I'm not the right person,
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you should talk to this person. But just that feedback to let
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people know sales is such a tough job.
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I think that's a great approach. We hope you got it as a long
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game, right? And that's what it is.
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If you are in tech sales, if you are in tech sales, if you're in
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SAS, if you're marketing, if you're a sales tech, those cross
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functional relationships will haunt you or serve you for the
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rest of your career, right? And odds are you're probably not
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going to be in, you know, sales, tech marketing and then go to
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pharma sales and then go to semi many conductors.
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You're probably going to stay in that same ecosystem.
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So think about the relationships you build now, the way you treat
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people, the things you do when you win or lose the deal, even
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just small things like checking in on your buyer after they've
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closed the deal, right? We, we have a whole thing where
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we set a 30 or 60 or 90 day reminder to check in and say,
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how's it going? Is what you thought you were
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buying? What you actually got is the
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team being responsive. How's implementation going?
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What do you think of our CS team?
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Now? We don't do this at Sam's Sales,
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but at every other company I've worked at, this was something
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that I did as a Rep or that I taught my reps to do because
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it's uncommon. Once you've signed the deal and
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it's moved on to an AM or ACSM, what good does that deal do for
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you anymore? What good does that client do
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for you? That's exactly when you should
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go above and beyond when they have nothing to offer you
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because they've given you their business, they've signed on,
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they've made all these promises, Now let's make sure they're
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actually getting delivery in a meaningful way.
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Yeah, I I think that's such a great approach and just your
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lead in to that made me think about early in my career,
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someone said eventually you get to bring all your favorite
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people back together. And to your point, just
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remembering that one great e-mail or that one seller who
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made me feel that I really was a part of their team and they
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wouldn't let me fail, we can bring the band back together.
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Well, and on top of that, there you have I think the buyers that
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are the most critical, the most skeptical of the the toughest
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cookies. If you can impress them, right,
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they will refer you until they are blue in the face.
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It will come back to you as often as they can.
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And I think also think about the way that you present yourself,
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the way that you run your business, your operations,
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anything that you do right. Think about that really tough,
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impossible to please client. I think I am that person for
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many, many a customer success person.
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But can you please them? Because if you can, everybody
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else is going to be a cakewalk. And I think the other thing is
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that those people like myself who are difficult clients, who
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are the ones that have enormously high expectations,
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what also happens is that when those people refer you to other
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people, those referrals, they're going to know that you're
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already going to do an amazing job.
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Because God, if you can make Sam happy, you can make anybody
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happy. That sounds like a good T-shirt
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if you can make Sam happy. dot dot dot.
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OK, What is the most defining moment for you that really
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solidified this approach that you've discussed?
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Is there 1 moment where you think, hey that's the one that
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sent me in the right direction? I will say one thing is the when
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I got into sales and was really reticent about doing this work,
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just nervous about how I was going to go about building a
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book. I remember one of my
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counterparts that said, you know, you have to remember that
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these buyers are getting on the phone with you for a reason.
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It's because they have a challenge, right?
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They're not doing it for their health.
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And so I think something in that, right one, it shifted how
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I thought about sales because this is really to solve a
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challenge, not to sell a solution.
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Again, you hope that it's your solution that you can sell to
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solve that challenge. But change lens, that was one
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thing. The other thing is as I started
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to aggregate feedback from our buyers, right, of like what
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they've been through, what sales was like, who they just got off
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the phone with, I was like, wow, like the bar really is low, like
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it's on the ground. So I have built my life around
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being different. So being different as a friend,
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being different as a solopreneur, which now not
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solopreneur, but being different as a spouse, always wanting to
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just give somebody a different experience one way or the other.
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So I thought about the same thing for sales.
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How do I be different? What do they expect and what can
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I do differently and how can I build a brand for myself?
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I don't know why I want to do that.
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I don't know why that gives me joy, but that is who I am.
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I think one other thing that was interesting is the way that we
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treat each other in corporate America.
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So there was a defining thing that I can tell you about there
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that has not only changed the way that I sell, but also
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changed the way that I shine a light on women and everything
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that we do at Sam Sales. And I remember getting referred
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for a role. When I got the role, I was in
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San Francisco for onboarding and I had sent a message to the
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person that referred me, another woman on our team who was really
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successful and said, hey, I just haven't had a chance to properly
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thank you for referring for me this job.
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If you have a couple minutes to chat, let me know.
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So we get on the phone and I say basically as much.
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And I said, if I have questions, you know, along the way as I
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onboard, etcetera, do you mind if I pick your brain or send you
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a question, You know, here and there?
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And 7:14 in the morning, I remember exactly what I was
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wearing, where I was standing in San Francisco.
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And she said, no, you can't ask me questions.
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That's what your boss is for. And I also have no intention of
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seeing you succeed, which was, I mean, incredible to hear as a
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new terrified AE try to make your way in this new company
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where this person already has an incredible brand.
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But I think to me it was the so interesting.
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This is how women still do treat each other a lot of the way.
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A lot of the time they don't think about how to support each
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other. They don't think Better
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Together. So I think part of, you know,
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not only how we sell or how we think about how do we support
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women, How do we tell their bosses that they're doing a
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great job? How do we say, hey, thanks for
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doing all this work for us? What can we do to be of help to
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you? But it changes the way that we
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support women, hire women, shine a light on them, give back to
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our community through our women's leadership group.
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Lots that we do, I think to just try to better, better the
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profession and better our sales community as a whole.
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Yeah, that's that's a disappointing story for those
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not watching the video. My head fell into my lap
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essentially when you said no. I know here at demand base, we
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have a demand buddy program when everyone starts, it's to pair
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you with someone that's not your boss to help through any
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question. And yeah, I mean, that's such a
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low bar. To your point, the bar is the
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floor, right? Just step over the we could do a
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whole another episode on that. I my brain is wanting just take
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my T. Shirt for that one.
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Yeah, OK, Yeah, we'll do a new outfit and second episode there.
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I'm curious with with Show Me, You Know Me, there are probably
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some very common mistakes that you think about with Sellers
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because everyone talks about air quotes for those not on video
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personalizing their outreach. But we know that many, many,
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many, many people are depending on AI and tools to do those
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messages for them, which will eventually be a sea of sameness,
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right? Everything is going to be
15:45
similar. But what are some of the biggest
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mistakes you think about for sellers in regards to Show Me
15:51
You Know Me? Yeah, I think the, the we're in
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the age of scaled and veiled as I call it.
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So we've always been in scaled, right?
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We can scale everything. We can throw brackets and we can
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make it look like I wrote your name in the e-mail.
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You are welcome, Chris. I made an effort, 0 effort.
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But now we can veil our efforts as well and make it look like we
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made an effort when we didn't. So we can pull in snippets from
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things, we can personalize things.
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We can speed up through Chachi PT the way we research things
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about you and then just say find two or three themes about this
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person, drop in an e-mail and create 6 sequences that look
16:25
like this and then go, that's it and poof or done.
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But I think at the end of the day, what you want to think
16:30
about is what do you want your brand to be?
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If you put your name Sam McKenna on an e-mail and you send it
16:37
out, doesn't matter if you're working for Oracle, it doesn't
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matter if you're working for GE. But if you put your name on it
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and then that's the outreach you do, do you want to be known for
16:45
that? Do you want to be deceptive?
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So The thing is, use AI and use Chachi PT to scale your
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education. So what has Chris spoken on
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recently? Where has he worked before?
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One of the things he cares about?
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Does he have a podcast? What are the themes he talks
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about? Digest some of those themes.
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Tell me 3 or 4 of the points that he just mentioned on a
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recent podcast. Send those to me.
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Let me listen to them. Maybe I only listened from
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minute 1038 to 1342, but I listened.
17:14
Hey, I was catching a portion of your podcast.
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That's not a lie. You were.
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And then talk about what it is that you learned.
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So don't fake it because what's going to happen is some of those
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buyers are going to join. They're going to read something
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wonderful that you wrote about. I don't know, Steph Curry's
17:30
performance in his last game. The guy is going to get on or
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the gal and she's going to be super excited.
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She's going to be like, OK, so how I'm even a Warriors fan and
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the person's going to say a Warrior's what?
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And she's going to say, we wrote that in your e-mail about
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Steph's last play. So were you not watching the
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game? And they're going to scramble
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and they're going to read their e-mail and the person's going to
17:51
hang up. So you might be listening right
17:54
now and objecting to that. If the person responds to my
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e-mail and I did a scaled and bailed note, I'm obviously going
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to read the e-mail before I get on the call.
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You probably won't. And the reason that we say that
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is when we talk about show me, you know me and we say you need
18:10
to do your research before a call.
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Who are you talking to? What's the company?
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What do they do? What are their competitors like?
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What can you find out about them?
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People say I don't have time to do that, even 5 or 6 minutes, I
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don't have time. So if they don't have time to do
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that, they probably don't have time to get organized and to
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look at the emails to make sure that the lies they spewed in the
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emails to their buyers are fresh in their brain for them to give
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back out. So that's one thing.
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I think another thing is we're a little uncomfortable with it
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because we don't know where to source information.
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So if I go to Chris's Facebook page or I go and find like his
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reviews on Yelp from 2009, that really terrible gas station
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sushi he ate, should I reference that when I talk to Chris or is
18:49
that going to be creepy? So I think that's one mistake is
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we don't know where to go or sometimes we don't use the right
18:54
language. Like Chris, if I got on this
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call and I was like, listen, I have a few things to tell you
18:59
about your history. I've been stalking your LinkedIn
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a little bit. You're going to be like, my wife
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is not going to be appreciative of that comment and I'll be
19:06
like, I bet. So thinking about the language
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that we use can also get it wrong.
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I think the final thing is this like just make an effort.
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If I was meeting you, Chris, at a conference and you had agreed
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to give me time to hear about Sam sales, what am I going to
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do? Am I going to do any research?
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Am I going to come up cold? And I'm going to say, am I going
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to say where are you based? How long have you been there?
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Like what? What am I going to say?
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Or I have done my research. Nobody would go into a meeting
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like that cold and the ones that do or would probably shouldn't
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be in sales. So do a little bit of research.
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How can you form a poor as somebody?
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How can you build a relationship with somebody?
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How can you use that in a meaningful way?
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I'm going to say one more thing and then I'll stop talking.
19:46
Show me. You know me is not just for that
19:48
first entry point, right? It's from e-mail one to just
19:51
broker that first date, so to speak, all the way to having our
19:55
client for decades. And so for those of you who are
19:57
on video, I'm going to scoot over a little bit and you can
20:00
see a lamp that's sitting behind me and it's sitting atop 3
20:03
books. 1 is a jewelry book and two are Porsche books that my
20:06
mom had. She was a Porsche and a 9/11
20:08
enthusiast. So about a week ago one of our
20:11
clients had posted this very long post on LinkedIn.
20:15
All about 24 hours of Lemons. It's a race that happens for 24
20:19
hours where you drive, you guessed it, not Porsches, but
20:22
lemons. But he talked about his passion
20:24
for your cars and he talked about joining Porsche Club of
20:26
America. So I took a picture of our lamp
20:28
in the books and I sent it to him on Slack.
20:31
And he wrote back, no way. And I said on these cars, what
20:34
about you? And he wrote back, here's my sub
20:36
stack, all about 911. And then for the next 30 minutes
20:39
we talked about cars. It doesn't have to be, you know,
20:42
professionally based and doesn't have to be the very first
20:44
e-mail. It can be something that you
20:46
continue to do to develop a relationship with somebody.
20:48
So look for those threads that you can pull or show your buyer
20:52
that you know, they have a love of Porsches and you do as well.
20:55
And now you have something in common.
20:57
And it doesn't have to be $150,000 cars.
21:00
It can be a true crime podcast. It can be bobbleheads that you
21:04
have of Dumb and Dumber like I do.
21:06
Whatever it is, you can build a relationship based on it.
21:10
Love that I have a dumb and Dumber painting downstairs.
21:12
This is not visible. I need to move it.
21:14
What is it of? What's what's?
21:16
The scene Boyd and Harry on the bike on their their scooter,
21:20
which you know, this is not in my research.
21:23
You did get a lot of things. I've done blog posts about Steph
21:26
Curry. I did work at GE, did work at
21:28
Oracle. I do avoid gas station sushi,
21:31
but I am in Raleigh, NC. There is a gentleman named
21:35
Weston who owns a trading card shop called Oak City City Sports
21:41
and he bought the bike from Dumb and Dumber that is.
21:46
So he's. Western single.
21:48
Does he want to marry me? Don't tell.
21:49
Me. He is married with a child named
21:51
Luca, which I remember. Show me you know me because Luca
21:54
Donka. But yeah, to your point, I mean,
21:57
our life, it's all about these stories.
22:00
I think we can all resonate. We remember stories.
22:04
You want someone to take the time to get to know you, It does
22:06
stand out. You may want to hire that sales
22:09
Rep eventually. I would love to hear about your
22:14
favorite example where show Me, you know me has led to closing a
22:18
major deal or building a long lasting partnership.
22:21
Because if we're stereotypical here, sellers like to follow the
22:24
money. So what's your favorite story
22:26
there? I think here's something just
22:28
really cute that you can use so day-to-day example that you
22:31
might run into. You have clients who say things
22:35
like for us, we had somebody say we're going to have to come back
22:38
to you. We're getting our ducks in a row
22:40
on your proposal and everything else you're doing, we'll hit you
22:42
back. We had somebody else who said
22:45
same exact thing. We're trying to move a few
22:47
boulders out of our way. We'll hit you back.
22:49
Well, ducks and moving boulders, right, are tangible things.
22:52
So don't send, you know, a flock of geese to their office, but we
22:56
send a $15 bag of rubber duckies to a guy's office that rubber
23:00
the ducks in a row. Guy got that and he was like,
23:03
what the hell is this? And we're like just a little
23:05
visual for you to get your ducks in a row, right?
23:07
And the obviously the note card that accompanied it said exactly
23:09
that brings it home to his daughters, right?
23:12
They have these Doxy probably thinks of us every single time.
23:15
Boulders. We found a orange Sam Sales,
23:17
orange Tonka truck, whatever the hell it is, the trucks that move
23:20
boulders out of your way. And we sent it a little
23:23
something to get those boulders out of your way a little bit
23:25
more easily. Listen to what they talk about
23:28
with particular books. So are they talking about?
23:31
Somebody just mentioned Unreasonable Hospitality on
23:34
LinkedIn over the weekend. I had my entire team read that
23:36
book. Love that book.
23:38
Really fantastic. Even the name of that book makes
23:40
my heart race. So send that to them.
23:42
And by the way, take one extra step.
23:44
Don't Amazon it to them. First.
23:46
Support small bookstores for the love of God.
23:48
So buy from a small bookstore and one extra step, mail it to
23:52
yourself. Why?
23:53
Because then instead of the cheesy handwritten note card,
23:56
you're going to get to write your own note card, bundle it
23:59
up, pack it up and send it on your way.
24:01
So speed sometimes counts and you just want to get the book to
24:03
them right away. Other times, just do small
24:05
things like that. I think it just, to me, it's
24:08
about listening. Oh, I'm going to tell you one
24:10
more VP of marketing for a five, $6 billion global company.
24:15
We just sent her three books. So one unreasonable hospitality
24:19
2A book called We Dream and Gold, which talks about jazz
24:22
music and travel, three things she loves.
24:25
And then the third was a wonderful book that I just heard
24:28
good things about called the women that I thought she'd
24:29
appreciate. Plus we had a Shinola notebook
24:32
customized with her with her initials and we've heard her
24:35
reference of the how she journals and she calls it her
24:38
talk book. Just listen, your buyers are
24:41
giving you all of their clues, right?
24:44
So when we we put those four books together, the three books
24:47
and the the notebook and we say something for you to read
24:50
something to drive your passion on this and a new talk book for
24:55
when you fill the the other one out.
24:57
How do you think that person is going to feel?
24:59
Well, a person sent us an immediate picture when she got
25:02
the book, the books, and was like, Oh my gosh.
25:05
And the next picture was her tattered copy of Unreasonable
25:09
Hospitality. So she already had it and she
25:10
left it. So now we've given her a gift
25:12
that she can give out to somebody else.
25:14
Those things matter, and I'll tell you, they never cease to
25:17
make people feel seen. One more and then I'll stop
25:21
talking. If you are on LinkedIn, there's
25:23
a gentleman by the name of Riley Blaisdell that posts quite a bit
25:26
on LinkedIn and you might have seen him because sometimes he
25:29
posts and he says here are the women that I follow and there's
25:31
like 42 women need tags over and over and over again.
25:36
Well, I met Riley for the very first time at Saster when I was
25:38
pregnant with my little boy Alex and Riley showed up with custom
25:42
made onesies all around. Show me, you know me pineapples
25:45
and things like that. I have nothing to do for him.
25:48
I can't hire him. I'm not even in his space.
25:50
There's absolutely nothing I can do for him.
25:53
But he just took the time to say you've made an impression on me
25:56
and I just wanted to do something to say thanks.
25:57
So even when there is there are no dollars to follow, think
26:02
about how that sets you up and the reputation it builds for
26:04
you. And then people talk about you
26:06
on podcast. It's so true.
26:08
I'm going to talk about two right now just based on that
26:11
before I even ask the next question.
26:13
Number one, we had Alan Stein junior speak at our revenue
26:17
kickoff. I've knew now in a long time.
26:19
He knows I'm a huge Duke basketball fan.
26:22
He's actually doing the Duke fantasy basketball camp this
26:25
year that I did in 2022, but after the event.
26:29
He also knows I wear a size 15 shoes and have wide feet which
26:33
makes the very difficult to find cool shoes because most Nikes
26:37
are super narrow. So I have my doorstep.
26:40
It was a pair of Duke blue Jordans that run wide in size 15
26:44
and now it's my way to the humongous big ass shoes.
26:49
I think of Al and right every time I put them on my feet and I
26:52
just ordered the high top version for my 13 year old for
26:56
his form because he wants to have cool shoes to go with this
26:58
suit, you know. And then the other, to your
27:01
point of just standing out, very little monetary value, but
27:05
something I mailed myself, which was a pain in the butt, right?
27:09
I sent fruitcakes and there's a very specific reason everyone's
27:14
probably going fruitcakes. What?
27:16
Jesus, why wait? So we did a content piece when
27:20
it was Oracle Marketing Cloud. We had been acquired in and it
27:23
was on repurposing your content and we were going regifting and
27:27
it was near the holidays and to six different influencers sent a
27:33
fruitcake. I had a card thanking them and I
27:36
crossed I wrote a wrong name intentionally so it would it
27:39
would take Chris comma and then I'd mark it out and put Anne for
27:42
Anne Handley. And then it said, hey, if you'd
27:45
like to re gift this cover the shipping, please feel free to re
27:49
gift it to someone of your choice.
27:51
And for years, these fruitcakes went out.
27:54
And now every time I see some of the people, they'll go you, you
27:57
know, usually with expletives. I got a fruitcake on my doorstep
28:02
for you. And randomly, you know, it was
28:05
probably four years after that, the 4th holiday season, someone
28:09
sent me a picture and said this is the weirdest thing I've ever.
28:13
But your point, you know what? I spent $200 on shipping and
28:17
fruitcakes, but it was intentionally to do something
28:20
different, which is a lot of fun.
28:21
Yeah. And like a good viral campaign
28:24
for like, just like, you know, nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna
28:27
send maybe just like the generic, like, Oh my God, a Yeti
28:29
cup. Thanks guys.
28:31
They're going to send a fruitcake and then if people are
28:33
going to comment and be like, Oh my God, I hate fruitcake.
28:35
Also, I wish you had I had known about the Duke love earlier
28:39
because this Kentucky Wildcat fan would have said no to this
28:43
podcast. So terrible on me for the lack
28:45
of show me, you know me. Yeah, I have Christian Leitner
28:48
on this poster. You're really going to hate
28:50
that. For those who don't know.
28:51
Well, I won't. We won't go in today.
28:54
We have to get. It's a great show Me, you know
28:56
me. OK, let me tell you this real
28:57
quick. Christian Leitner's very famous
29:00
for hitting the shot against Kentucky, but he also foot
29:03
stomped the player and kind of built his name and infamy for
29:07
being a dirty, typical air quotes, typical Duke player.
29:11
But I had leukemia as a kid, 2 1/2.
29:14
I was treated at Duke Hospital. I was carried into the locker
29:18
room by Jay Billis. And, you know, Coach K sent me a
29:22
poster when I've been in remission for five years, and
29:24
it's the championship team with Christian Leitner.
29:26
So it's signed right there. And then there were tickets to
29:30
Duke Carolina in that package sitting on the front row on the
29:34
floor. So, you know, allegiances are
29:36
very strong in college sports, and we can agree to disagree,
29:40
but both teams are great. Now my favorite account Rep is a
29:43
big Kentucky fan too. Oh, why now I need to know who
29:47
this person is, but this is this is a beautiful, beautiful time.
29:50
We should just close the podcast on this because I'll tell you
29:52
where this is now. The second time the Christian
29:55
Leitner has bit me in the ass with show me.
29:58
You know me yours here. Of course I'm like, Oh, Duke
30:00
sucks and you're like, let me tell you about when I had
30:03
leukemia and I'm like, good, let me see myself out, asshole that
30:06
I am. So we've got that.
30:08
The first piece on this was I am a Kentucky basketball fan by
30:12
marriage. So I have to be because that's
30:15
where my husband and went to school, to law school and to
30:17
grad school. And so I was interviewing with
30:19
John Mahal at LinkedIn. I mentioned earlier that I had
30:23
said no to the very first offer that I had at LinkedIn was with
30:25
John Mahal. Mahal went to Duke for his grad
30:29
degree. And so I went to my husband and
30:30
I was like, what do I say? How's what's my show me, you
30:32
know me on Duke, tell me the stuff.
30:34
And he says, OK, when you get on the call, just say, I hate
30:37
Christian Lightner and I'm just supposed to tell you lead with
30:40
that. And so John goes John's
30:43
self-described introvert. And so John goes, OK, OK, on
30:48
Zoom. And I'm like, Oh my God, not
30:50
getting the shop. He thinks I'm a total weirdo.
30:51
Oh my God, he didn't react the right way.
30:54
Go under my chair immediately. And I was like, oh, and I'm
30:57
like, well, you went to Duke, right?
30:59
And he's like, oh, yeah, he's like, but I went for my master's
31:01
degree. It's not really like Blade Blue
31:02
like everybody else. And I'm like, OK, panicked,
31:06
panicked, panicked. And so in the end have a great
31:09
interview. I decide to bow out of the
31:11
process and he sends me an e-mail and he says was it cuz I
31:14
went to Duke in the subject line?
31:17
Phenomenal. But now that's twice the
31:19
Christian later has screwed me on show me, you know me.
31:21
So there, there you have it. We'll have to find a third.
31:24
I will refer you to someone and just not tell you and then I'll
31:27
let you figure it out. So there you go.
31:29
There's our thread. There's our fruitcake.
31:31
We will continue the Christian later thing.
31:34
If I'm a seller today and I'm busy and I have to hit pipeline
31:38
and the world is crazy and all my buyers are ignoring me, what
31:43
is something we could do today to start to implement?
31:47
Show me you know me. So find 55 zero people that you
31:51
want to get in front of and whoever those people are, go
31:54
skip level. So if you are targeting a
31:56
director, senior director, go to their boss's boss.
31:59
So skip level boss, find that person.
32:02
Chances are that person is going to be involved in your deal at
32:05
some point. Budget approval, integrations
32:07
approval, IT stuff, whatever it is, that person is going to be
32:11
involved. So why not just go right to the
32:13
top? Why?
32:13
Because we're scared. Don't be scared.
32:15
Jump off the high dive. So find 50 people, find those
32:18
skip level. So you want to go after and
32:19
Monday through Wednesday, write your show me, you know my
32:22
emails, but don't send them. So number one, we're lowering
32:25
the quantity that you're sending.
32:26
It's only 50, which I know might be terrifying.
32:29
Second, we're only going to write these in draft or throw
32:31
them into your sales loft cadences and then wait.
32:34
And then you want to time them out for Thursday and Friday.
32:36
The thing that you're going to do with that today, on Thursday
32:39
or Friday is you're going to send it out at a less busy time,
32:41
but it's not really the key. That's important because you
32:45
write these great hopefully subject lines that are show me,
32:48
you know me. And if you don't know what those
32:49
are, go and look up the hashtag Show me you know me and learn
32:52
how to do this. But the subject lines are
32:54
basically super funky. So if I was going to write to
32:56
Chris, I'm going to write size 15 plus Christian Leitner plus
33:01
Hashtag Sam Sales. And who's going to be like, I
33:04
know the first two, absolutely no idea what the hell the third
33:06
thing is, but I'm going to open up the e-mail because I'm
33:09
intrigued. So if you write this funky
33:11
subject line that makes no sense except to the person that's
33:14
receiving it, the odds are it's going to get open.
33:17
That's the first line of defense.
33:18
Doesn't matter if you're offering $1,000,000.
33:20
Doesn't matter if you're offering Harry and Lloyd's Trike
33:23
from Dumb and Dumber in the e-mail.
33:24
If we can't get it open, nothing's going to matter.
33:27
So make sure it gets open. We want to get them to open it.
33:29
We want them to get them to read it.
33:31
Will they respond? Maybe, most likely not.
33:34
And even if they read the e-mail and they're like, this is really
33:36
smart, what's going to happen next June?
33:37
Meeting starts, Slack comes in, e-mail pops in distracted.
33:41
They've forgotten about you. So the next thing you want to do
33:43
is the weekend e-mail. I'll close out with that note is
33:46
to send the follow up less than 48 hours after the first, which
33:50
means Thursday goes on Saturday, Friday, stay with me now goes on
33:53
Sunday. And then all you're going to say
33:56
is, hey Chris, I wanted to see if you had a chance to read my
33:59
note below. If you're up for chat, still be
34:01
grateful for the chance to chat with you about how Sam Sales can
34:03
help you. Grateful for, appreciative of
34:06
the chance to chat with you about how we can help.
34:09
No, I'd love to remove your salesy language.
34:13
Right? Just change it.
34:14
Plus, you sucker them into responding when you say you'd be
34:16
grateful for or appreciative of the chance to chat, right?
34:19
Like, wait, a Jedi mind trick them.
34:22
But what's going to happen, right, is you're going to spend
34:24
your time working smart. So Monday through Wednesday
34:27
research. Thursday and Friday, emails go
34:30
out to 50 different people. Saturday and Sunday, 50 people
34:33
get replies. And think about most executives,
34:36
right? We have the weekends, we're
34:38
chasing kids around. We're hanging out in a vineyard,
34:41
drinking with our friends, just me and doing that while chasing
34:44
our kids around. We have time to be on our phones
34:46
to scroll, right, to be distracted while we're at the
34:48
19th hockey game of the day. So that's usually when people
34:52
are going to respond, especially if you've made an effort, stood
34:55
out with that funky subject line and you're timing the e-mail to
34:59
catch them at a time where they're less distracted and
35:01
certainly less distracted with work stuff.
35:04
And one more note there, people are often sometimes a little
35:07
fussy about weekend emails. Oh, it feels like really, you
35:09
know, offensive and getting in their time.
35:11
It's not like we're cold calling them on the weekend, dear God,
35:14
right? But executives work on the
35:16
weekends, skip level executives work on the weekends.
35:18
On average, we work 7 hours a weekend as executives.
35:22
Super fun. Be a leader.
35:24
But so it's not like you're inviting their personal time and
35:27
they don't have to respond to them to you if they don't want
35:30
to, but your e-mail will stick out in their mind.
35:32
Love it. Great stuff there.
35:34
This has been such an action-packed episode.
35:37
I felt like we should have done two or three, all the different
35:39
outfits. Next time we're Duke and
35:42
Kentucky stuff, we will have to go Part 2 where we wear that.
35:45
Just not around any important game.
35:47
Because that's another thing, if you know someone really keeps up
35:51
with college basketball when their team loses, don't send an
35:55
e-mail. There's just no way when your
35:57
team loses in the tournament, there's just no way to make that
36:00
good. So that that would be my show
36:02
me. You know me.
36:03
Don't. That's your pro tip.
36:05
Yeah, 'cause everyone's a mourning.
36:07
I mean, especially college basketball now, which is a whole
36:09
different podcast, but team flip over every single year.
36:12
So we're gonna enter the lightning round.
36:14
We're gonna do that's here. Really quick ones to close out
36:16
so we have time to write some of these personal emails today.
36:20
What is the biggest sales challenge in B2B today?
36:24
The biggest sales challenge is that you are competing with
36:27
everybody else for the same dollars that you used to not
36:29
compete with them for. Everyone is trying to be
36:32
everything to everybody these days.
36:34
So the $100,000 they used to compete with two or three other
36:37
people that were in your space is now you competing with 10 or
36:40
20 other people. But also the fact that so many
36:43
deals end in no decision. So you waste all of these times,
36:47
all this time with buyers because we're not prescriptive
36:49
enough. We don't understand how to prove
36:51
value. We don't understand the So what
36:53
of our product. So our our process is so hyper
36:57
inefficient today because of that indecision.
36:59
Love it. Favorite tech, tools,
37:02
technology. What are you using today that's
37:04
really important to you? I'll shout out for LinkedIn
37:07
Sales Navigator. If you cut one arm of mine, it's
37:10
orange for Sam sales and the other arm is always going to
37:12
bleed. Sadly LinkedIn blue.
37:14
But you probably don't know how to use LinkedIn Sales Navigator,
37:17
which is why you don't use it. The majority of users don't
37:20
understand how to use it most effectively.
37:22
So if you have a challenge with that, give a shout.
37:24
But it is the most effective prospecting tool that you have.
37:27
It's so, so powerful. You just need to know how to use
37:29
it to sell. I love it and I will say
37:32
LinkedIn blue is closer to Duke blue than UNC.
37:36
Duke and Kentucky are closer, so I they're.
37:39
Closer. You can just pick on the Tar
37:41
Heels for this one. So we'll what about good reads
37:48
you had on a few books earlier that are under your lamp.
37:50
I do recall that. But what are some of your
37:53
favorite books, blogs, newsletter, podcast?
37:56
I love it. So newsletter.
37:58
I will always read the Deal book by the New York Times.
38:01
If you don't read that really great.
38:03
Morning Brew I also love because they're humorous as well.
38:06
I will always read Kyle Pointer's newsletter.
38:09
If you don't read it, it's really fantastic.
38:11
You will learn something every single time.
38:13
HBR Women at Work is a fantastic podcast.
38:16
I don't listen to a lot of podcasts because I feel like
38:19
this is going to sound unkind. They're a waste of time in that
38:22
I mean, I don't feel like I learn a lot for the time that I
38:24
invest. I want to walk away with two or
38:26
three or four really thought changing ideas from those
38:31
podcasts, but that one will do it for you.
38:33
Radical candor, an oldie but a goodie by Kim Scott,
38:36
Unreasonable Hospitality. Fantastic.
38:38
Loved reading Ride of a lifetime by Bob Iger, CEO of Disney, and
38:42
you'll see a lot of brands you recognize.
38:44
And finally, if you don't follow Todd Capone with a very exciting
38:49
title of the sales historian that he calls himself on
38:52
LinkedIn, pick up both of his books.
38:54
So transparency sale and transparency leader, Transparent
38:57
leader I think it is not transparency leader, but read
39:00
those books. I have both of them and they're
39:02
filled with margin notes. In fact, I think I texted him to
39:05
yell at him about how long it was taking me to read his book
39:08
because I kept stopping to make notes.
39:10
So hopefully some good nerd out content there.
39:14
Outstanding, great recommendations.
39:16
I feel like we you established our hook for the promotion of
39:19
this too. Was this podcast a waste of
39:21
time? Question mark Hashtag Sam sales.
39:24
Do it, Chris, do it. You have my full, full
39:27
permission, I think. I think that'll be the the click
39:29
they we need. I do a lot of these.
39:31
This one's not a waste. I mean, none of them are.
39:34
Ever. I think, I don't know.
39:35
I think it should be a question. I should just be.
39:37
This podcast will be a waste of your time with Chris and Sam
39:39
McKenna. Yeah, want to waste 40 minutes
39:42
and counting with? We got the episode for you.
39:46
We all you need to figure out some viral hook there.
39:49
Let's do it. What about people who inspires
39:53
you and B to B especially, but you can go anywhere with it.
39:57
I think Jen Allen is super inspiring.
39:59
I think she does just a, I'm going to leave it with Jen, just
40:01
with Jen. She does a phenomenal job with
40:03
her content. She's incredibly authentic.
40:05
She's good, human, and just smart.
40:08
She has a brain and just tons of experience behind her.
40:11
So I'll shout out for Jen. How great is the name Demand
40:14
Jen? I mean, right, we demand Jen.
40:18
I think the origin story is a little different.
40:20
She posted about it recently, but just yeah, she was great.
40:23
I know the marketers are going to make it their own, right?
40:25
Like just demand Jen, you know she used to be named account
40:29
based. That's right and better.
40:32
I don't think you have the play on words with her that you do
40:34
for Sam sales, which is Sam smells like at that.
40:36
Sometimes Sam Sam shorts. Sometimes people change out the
40:40
vowels and they're they're really real.
40:42
I'll let you. I'll let your creative brand go
40:44
and figure out. Too.
40:46
I spent some some flight time on that this evening.
40:51
OK, most important question of all, you made it very last one.
40:55
How can everyone get in touch with you after this episode?
40:59
Pop over to find me on LinkedIn. Please say hello there most
41:02
impactful thing you can do for our content and for other
41:04
people, by the way, is drop comments in and tag your
41:07
friends. So if you have content creators
41:10
that you love, please do that. Otherwise, pop over to our
41:12
website. We have free webinars, our
41:14
women's group subscriptions that you can buy to short circuit
41:17
your learning of everything that you want to learn about with
41:20
sales and LinkedIn. But just come say hello.
41:22
We'd be lucky to have you. Love it.
41:24
It was an absolute pleasure, Sam.
41:26
Thanks for your time today. Thanks so much.
41:29
Thanks back. Thanks for joining us for On
41:32
Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
41:34
please be sure to share, rate, review and subscribe on Spotify,
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Apple, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
41:41
This show is brought to you by Demand Base, the only account
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41:46
alignment.