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AIM High: Creating a new asset management brand · Two in Twenty

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone and welcome to this week's podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Twink Field.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the CEO of White Marble and director of the Association of Investment Marketers.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: And today we're really talking about brand.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a highly privileged situation where we're having a conversation with Courtney Waterman, who is the head of creative marketing at Investec Asset Management, soon to be 91.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she's joined by her creative agency, Publisher Sapi, where we have Dan Cordoni, who's the creative director there, and Richard Sherwell, who's client partner at Publisher Sapient.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a highly anticipated listing of the business 91 as well as the launch of the brand.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I shall let them talk you through their thinking for a mid-March launch.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to all three of you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is a great dynamic, a party of four, which is normally where two or three of us uh chatting on a key subject.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for joining us.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think the first thing to do would be for you guys to introduce yourselves.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe if I start to my right, uh Courtney.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Courtney Waterman.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am head of creative marketing at Investec Asset Management at the moment, and we are becoming 91.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So by the time you hear this, I will be working at 91.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Dan Cardoni.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm a creative lead at Publices Sapient, and I had the pleasure to lead our brilliantly talented creative team throughout the uh 91 rebrand project.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh hi everyone, I'm Richard Sherwell, client partner at Publicer Sapient.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm working with Dan and the team on creating this wonderful new brand.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, guys.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um so without further ado, should we get stuck into um perhaps just reminding us as to sort of why there was the need to create this new brand?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Where did that come from?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that we're all our listeners uh sort of understand the sort of the push.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, certainly.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh basically we've demerged from the InvestEt group, or we are in the process of doing that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you're demerging, um you're a complete new company company, so um new uh corporate structure and so on, and you need a new brand, but actually it's the same people there.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what we needed to do is we needed to um have it find a new name, um have a new brand, um, and then uh basically launch that out in a way that was entirely consistent with who our clients had been working with in the last uh three decades or so.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what a remarkable and exciting project.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is I don't know of any other example really where you can completely reinvent yourself or kind of rebrand yourself and start afresh.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a kind of thing of dreams for marketers, isn't it?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And creative agencies, frankly.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just a really start rather than inherit necessarily a brand that you need to sort of tweak and things, you know.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe um you can sort of just give a feeling for kind of what the differences are in terms of creativity around, you know, something like this is a complete green field to some degree.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: It never happens.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: So to have the opportunity is absolutely fantastic.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think when we heard um and saw the press announcement that this might be happening, we thought this is a golden opportunity to do something that hasn't been done.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: I can't think of, I mean, it really happens just in any sector, let alone the asset management sector, but to have this opportunity in the sector, I've been doing this 15 years or so now, and I can't remember anything similar.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of mergers, but not D-merger where you suddenly are able to have a completely greenfield opportunity where everything can be built from scratch.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, unbelievable.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, indeed.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think creatively it's it's these opportunities really come uh very rarely.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was an interesting challenge because um it was a new brand, but as Courtney mentioned, it wasn't necessarily a new company.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a great deal of you know, what is it that we need to create versus what is it that we need to kind of so search and then surface in that process?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that we need to that it's there that needs to be expressed more clearly and visually eloquently, um, as opposed to what is it that we need to create afresh?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Courtney, what were those sort of unique challenges, I guess, in creating this new brand?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that there were personal challenges and then there were practical challenges.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the personal being the fact that we are quite a young company and our founder and the first employees are still at the helm, which is absolutely brilliant from a business point of view.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Continuity with our clients gives a very long-term mindset, which is a fabulous place to be.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it also means it was very personal to them.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of uh kind of one of the ways that we looked at if we were on the right track was if people, it was highly subjective.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Does it feel like us?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which sounds so fluffy, but it was so important for us because we had to play to the emotions of these people who had built this company year after year from its beginning into a global firm that we are now, and we needed to make sure it felt right to them and authentic.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just a marketing branding exercise, but it was something that the whole firm would embrace.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that was the kind of personal uh people challenge, if you like.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then the practical one was how deep do we take it?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which is when we first had the idea of we need a new name, we thought we were listing in less than six months.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's only a certain amount you can do in that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we found out that actually the timetable had was longer and we had more opportunity, we went in and we basically made the case to do it a lot more comprehensively.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for example, we're launching a brand new website, not a reskin of exec of an existing one, but a complete re-platform.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just everything is changing.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so day one is going to be a huge um achievement for the people involved in it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we know it's also day one, only day one, though, so there'll be more to come.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: But but that point of view of that practical, how do we actually launch this and how do we ensure it's embedded into the company?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we made it far bigger than we kind of first thought about it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why having a partner like Publisher Sapien really helped us because we could tap into the expertise that they had and feel like we were in really safe hands.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, before we come to you, Dan and Richard, just to talk about how do you even start to put that sort of planning in place and the phases, maybe you could sort of talk to that in a jiffy.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just maybe to your earlier point, Courtney, on the hearts and minds job that goes in with something like this, because it's so personal to so many people, both your clients and also internally or the employees.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I imagine the whole stakeholder management element was considerable right the way through.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it still is.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it is.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really is.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is, I don't think it's unique to Investor Asset Management, but certainly I feel it the most there, which is the fact that we talk about being owner-driven, and we don't mean that that Hendrick, who is the founder, is still our you know, CEO.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: What we mean is is we mean that every single person treats the firm as if they owned the firm.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you have a real sense of involvement, and so every single person will give their view.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so basically being able to deliver something that feels authentic and having a lot of conversations was probably half of the work.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe sometimes it actually tipped over into more than half of the work.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And presumably getting people off thinking that it's a colour palette job and things like that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so there were a lot of conversations at first saying, but we're not changing, nothing's going to change, just uh just give me the new zebra.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, there was management of expectations, of understanding of how large a project this is, um, and then just making sure that people felt like they were involved.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think communication is obviously something that we do as a profession, and and but sometimes when you're so busy, it's the first thing that goes.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that a huge learning for us is just the the more you can communicate, the more likely you are to be able to um deliver a really quality project without too many uh bumps in the road.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, understanding and paying a respect to the heritage that's that was critical.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the first time we arrived at Investec Asset Management, I remember going up in the lift um to the eighth floor, waiting in reception, and what's on the reception table, it's the massive hardback super brands book.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: And why is that there?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's because Investec, uh Investec Group has this zebra, it's invested in for over two decades, I think.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's uh one of the top super brands in the world.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: So, from our perspective, we had to recognize that that was another thing that this team were gonna be letting go of.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: This was the thing that we needed to pay respect to, but also to move away from as they demerge.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um I found that quite an exciting challenge when I was reminded of it when I saw it for the first time.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Indeed.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that um that space that Zebra would would was going to leave um started to be filled when we turned our attentions to the heritage of the business.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And in our kind of creative explorations, uh one concept that came up quite early was this idea of having a vibrant and diverse color palette, which was uh directly um derived from the kind of South African uh fauna and flora, you know, throughout different types of times of the day, during different times of the year, you'd have this lovely hues that come through.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're very much inspired by that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we constructed our colour palette um, you know, from that principle in a way to pay not an obvious, uh uh um not an obvious translation off that, but more something that it's in there, it's built into that DNA.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we kind of took that further into a modern, forward-looking, diverse expression of what is a very global business today.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember that when we first kind of had conversations with uh Courtney and the team about that, everyone was very excited about their idea, and that kind of persisted throughout the duration of the project.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because how do you even begin to write the brief for your creative agency on something like this?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's quite expansive.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I guess you've got to be very focused and clear on that journey you're trying to take clients on and then your internal stakeholders, um, and and sort of bringing something fresh and new, but also with a sort of sense of the familiarity.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how do you begin to write that and work with a team uh to deliver it?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: We actually took a um slightly different approach, um, maybe true to our old tagline of out of the ordinary.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: We just didn't, we rather than have one master agency, we actually had a group, um, and so we worked with people on different aspects.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it mean it meant that their brief could be quite tight.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, we worked with one company on the proposition and the name, um, and we did kind of some of the master kind of top-level creative with them, and then we got into very, very detailed design.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: We took it to a different company, um, and we have been working with uh a kind of best in class ad agency.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: We we've been picking who is best for the particular aspect of that um part of the project, and for us it's very much we're yes, it's extra work for us because we have a lot of ex a lot of agencies and we need to make sure it's consistent, but it also sets us up for owning our own brand once we've listed and once we're live.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think otherwise it's kind of you know, if too much of the thinking is is with one agency, how do you then own it?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and how do you have the confidence to take it forward in-house?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's your own, it's your own brand and it should be owned internally.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: So go and tell us a little bit in terms of uh you know, kind of getting to 91 and then sort of where you got today, um, some of the tricky phases, um, but also some of the the wacky names and the sort of kind of left field ideas.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how did you how did that all sort of come to sort of where you are today?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love the story of the name actually.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um we uh yeah, we had over 750 names at one point that had been discussed.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we did the very traditional route in our industry, which is we looked at Latin, we looked at Greek, um, and you know, we came up with like intero and things like that, like tying, like, you know, at first everyone wanted the name to begin with an I, because then it was like InvestEc, um, and you could stay at, you know, I asset management, so I am, which is something that we use internally.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually it was just decided that was far too close to group and that we couldn't do that anymore.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: But we looked at so many, so we divided it into abstract, evocative, and descriptive to try and get some structure to it and where we wanted to be.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we had so many names on the table, as I mentioned.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my favourite was at first people thought very literally, and they just used zebra asset management in lots of different languages, and lots of there are many different breeds of zebras.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a there's a Birchall zebra.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if people know that, but I now am an expert on zebras.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we did have loads.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: We we worked with an agency on it, as I mentioned.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: We had over 750, and in the end, it was 91 that we really liked.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like us, it was kind of an in um, it was quite descriptive, which we liked, um which is when we began, but also it was evocative of the times when we began.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So so a name is nothing until you put meeting next to it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so the story we tell all around it, the year when we were founded was just a remarkable year.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: There was so much change going on.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I can go on and on about that, and I probably need to stop.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: But all I'll say is by the time that this is people can listen to this, our advertising launch campaign should be there, and it tells you all about 1991 and why it was such a remarkable year.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm imagining that you guys were very involved in sort of building out that sort of identity kit.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: How did you go about that?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um, it was exploratory early on.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and actually, I think what worked really well in this project was uh we had a very small team early on um from the client side uh and from our side.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: And our brief was really focused.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: We were very focused on how the does the design and the design concept manifest.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And um we were incredibly transparent.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think there was anything we did that we didn't share with um Courtney and Imogen and the rest of the team.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: We had these meetings every Thursday afternoon in our team room, everything would be up on the wall, and we moved really, really fast.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: We had three to four on our side and uh two to three uh on the Investor Casset Management side.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think within about three to four weeks we'd decided what the concept was going to be.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: The fundamentals we agreed were there.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: And we couldn't have got there without the trust and momentum that we built in the room, and that came from the core parts of the design linking so strongly to the heritage and the story of um Investor Cassette Management, where they were from, what made them unique.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: One of the best things about working with this brand was that strong culture that Courtney referred to, um, owner-driven, um those same people are still there, meant there was things that we could explore and do that were fundamentally authentic and truthful.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And if we were getting the responses from um the people in the room, but also maybe some trusted people within the business that this was the right track, then we knew we were we were going somewhere.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I think accelerating really quickly really early on and getting to that single concept that we had faith in, that gave us a stable foundation.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: The last thing I think you need are four or five concepts still in play.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: You start going through months and months of work, more and more people get involved, and your foundation is unsteady.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we didn't have that uh in this instance.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we felt from early on that there was uh an opportunity for differentiation.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: We felt like some of the way businesses in the industry expressed themselves is is is quite similar.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um it's important for companies in this space to have a point of view, to have a distinct uh culture and personality, and we felt that the brand should absolutely express that in a confident, uh bold, but also very elegant way.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that's what one of the things that really guided our thinking throughout that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think the result kind of speaks of that.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we also wanted the brand to go beyond the traditional uh kind of broadcast mediums.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted the brand to be able to work hard for the creation of uh innovative products and services.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So attached to the usual branding core elements, what we've done is we've created a pretty powerful design system, um, a modular, flexible, scalable design system that allows the business to express themselves, but also to build products in a clever, efficient, and user-centered way in order to drive innovation going forward.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of all patched up as part of that branding exercise.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: What we did is we've done a sneak peek internally.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, the name was incredibly important.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't want people to hear it kind of from you know, just it's been leaked somehow.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there's certain partners we work with and they need about uh six months lead time to get things all updated.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: We squeezed that to four and a half months rather than um rather than six months.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: But then we took control of it and we actually did, we called it name day, um, and we launched on the 19th of November uh 2019.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was all nines and ones, people noticed afterwards.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we launched our name internally, and we also shared it with our clients that same day.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what's interesting, you know, the kind of confidence you talk to within within the positioning, um, but also and the consistency clearly.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: But what's also key is giving people the narrative, that sort of internal uh phase of allowing people to really understand where it's coming from so that they can again get some personal attachment to it and also be able to talk to it confidently themselves.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's so hard when doing any kind of brand project, you go, this is what we stand for, and and people need to sort of have a sort of emotional response to that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, so how did you sort of take people through that process?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we created brand ambassadors internally and we did training sessions with them.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: There were nine training sessions around the globe, um, covering uh some in person, some some by Skype and so on, to really train people and talk to them about the journey.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: This was two, this was from three weeks before we announced the name as well.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, all of these individuals, th for whatever reason, whether it was our threats or or what it was, but they did really didn't want to spoil the surprise for their colleagues.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so no one spoke about the name, no one spoke about how we were going to look, and no one shared the name story or anything like that.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was a brilliant approach.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was something that was um, you know, took a lot of time to train people.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Each session was a 90-minute session, and we went through all of the details, all of the background, and people left so excited and so energized.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it was fabulous to see because on the day we announced the name, we had all of our brand ambassadors kind of took jackets off and they had 91 t-shirts on, and it was kind of like asked me a question about the new brand.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it felt like it wasn't something from marketing being done to people, but it felt like it had come kind of from from everywhere throughout the organization.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so we definitely focused on on that to make it make it feel authentic to the company rather than something which was just kind of oh, marketing have got new colours.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, because actually, often you see people don't take the time internally to do the job, and that's often where it falls down.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: All the sort of beautiful work is done, the articulate articulation work is done, but you don't necessarily get that sort of um galvanization from within the business.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's particularly important in this instance because this was this is the first time the organization has had the chance to entirely tell and own its own story.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I referred um affectionately to the zebra before.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but without that, the opportunity for 91 is well, what is our story?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: How do we want to tell the world who we are?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're not changing as a business, but have we ever really articulated from first principles where we come from, what we stand for, where we're going next?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think probably the protection of the um previous brand had meant that that hadn't had to be expressed in the same way.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it is even more important for every employee to know what that uh new and um true story is so they can tell their colleagues.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I mean, this is this is a client-driven business at the end of the day, so they they need to be communicating that in the room, in pitches, uh, every day on phone calls with clients and and and and so on.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I thought it was particularly important here.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate you know, there's a few weeks to go before we go live.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so a lot still to be done, no doubt.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all knowing your project management skills probably not very much, Courtney, but All nicely organized, but um, I guess to date when looking back at the process, which has been considerable, um, are there any sort of learnings around how you do things differently or anything with hindsight that you would um kind of share to marketers listening to this today?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, from my point of view, and then and then I'll I'll leave it to Dan and Richard to answer from theirs as well.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: But from my point of view, because we had to be very, very um uh confidential around the name, um, it was deemed something which which for some reason it was deemed um as confidential, almost market-moving information.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know where that had come from, but that was the seriousness that it was taken with.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So anyone who knew the name had to be, it was a very, very small group to make sure that um the risk of leaking didn't go out.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it felt that we couldn't actually involve a lot of the experts, in-house experts that we would want to.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we had a steer co which was absolutely brilliant, um, and that was the steer co was globally representative, and also we had channel representation from in terms of our client focus, um, you know, both uh like all types of our clients, but also we had people who had been at the company since its inception, and then we had new joiners as well.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we could represent lots of different points of view within that steering committee, but it just in hindsight, I mean, we we did that, you know, we we coped with it as well as we could do.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if more people had known, we could have brought them in sooner and they could have got involved sooner.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so kind of you know, there were pluses and and minuses to having such a small group.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it just like kind of the learning would be that maybe we could have shared it a little bit more widely, slightly sooner in the project, because there were great points of view that we only found when things were really very much formed already.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Dan.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't, um, I don't think obviously there are always compromises in the process and challenges, and we had certainly our fair uh share, but those are expected.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, the the highlight is normally when you do these types of uh projects, um often there is a fair bit of dilution that goes on throughout the process.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: You start with something really strong, and then you start to kind of socialize internally around the business, and the concept starts to get pulled apart and diluted further.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think what we ended up with is remarkably undiluted.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and and I am very happy and proud of that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that is testament to the level of uh collaboration and to the obviously the skill and talent of the people involved.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for that reason, even though we did have our challenges, uh I I stand by our our process um and the way we've collaborated and went went on to create this because I think the result is very, very close to our initial uh vision and in certain aspects, maybe even better.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: Prudent.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I second that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think actually, in terms of learnings, one thing that was just really strong was having that small team who felt pretty empowered, actually.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I think the decisions were made in the room, and those decisions stood.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is the concept we're going to do, we're going to develop it further, and we're going to take this to whoever we need to to get it signed off.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the plan, and we all agreed on that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that gave it a power that I don't think um it would have had otherwise if you were already kind of cross-questioning what was happening in in those sessions.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think some of the variables, like not knowing exactly when the launch day or deadline would be, sure, ideally you'd want that because then it enables planning.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: But on the flip side, it enables a lot of flexibility when you don't have that, because it's this strange kind of constraint.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to be ready for a number of different situations as a result.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: But I think fostering that strong, those we had really strong meetings early on.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think they were really well um conducted.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: There was so much positivity that I felt the creative team were able to clearly know what to do next and have the energy to do that.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've been in enough of these processes to see kind of energy deflate like a like a balloon over time, and it just ends up you can just tell it's kind of going.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that wasn't the case here, it remains strong.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think as a result, we were able to tell a really strong story to stakeholders, and they saw it, they understood it, and they liked it, and so they wanted to keep it because it felt felt like the right thing.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they give it an energy themselves, yeah, yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: To your point around bringing ideas around 91.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't wait for the big reveal.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I guess with that, sort of tantalizingly close, is there anything you can uh share around how you're going to launch it?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I think crucially, how is the business asking you to sort of measure the success of it?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how what are you what are you doing in that regard?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I get the best questions, don't I?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's fine.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're doing to launch it is is uh we're actually using a lot of the tactics that people would expect us to use.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're just going very, very broad on it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Each each region is able to customize a little bit for them.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So what we do in South Africa is different to what we'll do in Hong Kong and so on.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're using all your traditional um owned, earned, and paid channels.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll be doing that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that the measurement for us is is a difficult one, but it's a nice challenge to have, which is the fact that normally you would just look at your brand equity before you change your name and you you rebrand, and then afterwards.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: But we have a lot of confusion.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a lot of confusion with groups.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you buy into any syndicated survey uh and then people say, Yes, I've seen InvestEc asset management, and then they cite one of the adverts from a different part of the group, um, because we all use the beloved zebra very much.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had that huge halo effect, which is a huge benefit to us, but then in terms of measurement, uh, that's a difficult one to get.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing, you know, we're we're in market doing a pre-launch um survey to try and get that perception, awareness, and perception that we can then measure against.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're also doing softer ones, which is um client feedback.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it something that is is positive?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that resonates with them?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, the feedback we had, because we did a little dip into the market, if you like, when we announced our name, that feedback has been incredibly positive.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not overwhelmingly positive.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: There are those who just kind of take time to get used to the name.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um just uh to interrupt briefly.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Did you test and research a couple of names before you went with 91?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Did you go and sort of do some client research at that level in a sort of clandestine room somewhere in the city?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't with our clients.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: We did we did test um with well, we we tested with a few trusted um individuals, very much so.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And but mainly it was something that actually the name was something that was so just when we got it, it just felt right that that while we tested it and we've asked people's opinions on it, we kind of knew that that we weren't in a position to be able to change it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: When you've gone through 750 names and there's only one that everyone rallies behind, it's it's a very difficult situation to be in.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we tested it from the point of view of how do we need to build the story, how do we need to embed this?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: To shape it from there.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so we did it in that way, but we didn't ask people, do you prefer a name A or a name B?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, makes sense.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I guess just more broadly, thinking about um marketers, thinking about how to drive clear, consistent brands and messaging into the market, just as a final wrap-up, I guess it'd be great to hear sort of both sides, so sort of creative agency as well as the client.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you what tips have you got, practical tips for for those thinking about their brand projects and and actually kind of you know to the the earlier question around uh measurement, you know, ever tricky?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think it's a classic answer, but critically is to the success of anything is have you really defined the problem?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Have you really defined what you're trying to solve?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: And do you have the inputs that you need to define what you think the solution might be as a result?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think the measurement should be sort of intrinsic within how you're phrasing what the problem is, and therefore what the solution will be.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think if you somehow divorce it, then it becomes an afterthought then rather than something that's in the in the DNA of the solution.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh I think it was uh um I thought this this process worked well because I think at each stage we always asked us ourselves, um, well, in fact, Dan, we had that that phrase that led us throughout this.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: We're not here to create more of the same, we're here to create better.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it was a sort of uh watchword that we had um every every meeting.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you look at this, is it actually creating better, or are we just nodding through because it's a Thursday and you know, um maybe a little tired this week or or whatever?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is this genuinely better?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: But you can only get to that better if you're understanding really what you're what you're trying to solve and stand apart from.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think a lot of the a lot of the advice is is very classic, it's do the basics really well.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you can do those well, you're much more likely to give yourself a foundation to to get somewhere far better.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, that was an interesting one, that that quote, because you know, I can't count how many uh presentations we started with that, just to remind all of us in the room that that was our real ambition.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that leads me to to what I think is is is an interesting thought on on brands in in the investment industry, which is I think success um is going to be for the brands that are not afraid to take a stance to express who they are and how they're different, and what do they do better through their brand identity through their channels?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that is very important.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very tough thing to do, especially the bigger the business, the business, the harder it is to do.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that is super important.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also to go beyond uh traditional media channels and think about a brand as an enabler of innovation and digital product innovation uh more specifically.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and last but not least, on the measuring, that's a tricky one.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like quite often uh research is done uh taking elements out of context.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um sometimes the strength of a brand uh expression is within the system.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do things hang together and how they are kind of expressed consistently throughout all the touch points?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you put a bunch of colours in front of people and try and test what they feel about that, but those colours attached to a certain message, uh attached to a certain type of approach to design, then create something that is uh far bigger than the sum of its parts.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, testing that, I don't really have the answer, but I feel like that's kind of how you get a to a true measurement of the strength and and possible success of your brand.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Three things come to mind on that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: The first is um, and you know, if you're trying to deliver a clear and kind of consistent brand message, is make sure it's authentic to your company, obviously.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we were very lucky in the fact that we don't have um internal messaging and external messaging.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a very uh you know, it's a very transparent firm in that, you know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we have phrases we use internally which are on our website.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so we made sure that we built on those phrases so that it we very much the brand brought to life the values that we had so that you can be entirely consistent and authentic to the experience that they're going to have when they actually are meeting us and and the experience they've had up to now, because this is a new name, but we're you know we're 29 now, um, but and so it should be authentic to the previous 29 years.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the second one is consistency.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, build the flexibility into your brand right from the heart, uh right from the beginning, uh, that system that you have, make sure it can adapt to different regional expectations, regional colour preferences, you know, client-specific ones, which is that you know, in in some markets it's expected that you have very dense copy, in other markets it's kind of like, you know, your design needs to flex to be much more kind of like bullet point, whatever it might be, and whatever you've found, make sure you build that in so that your brand is consistent right from the beginning, that there's absolutely no reason for someone to go off brand because you have the flexibility in there.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then the final one is stability, and it's really dull, but don't change it too soon.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: No one really wants to go through this that often.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is a this is an investment, you know, and and we really should that we have room within this brand.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's very bold, and we've got we've got kind of a what does a day two look like?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: What does a day three look like?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we in in every aspect, our advertising strategy, our kind of web, our our visuals, we know what it's going to lead to, and it's a natural progression.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want it to be, okay, that was us last year, now let's change.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: So keep that stability and don't change it too soon.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, great, wise words there.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that leaves me just to really thank you all for sharing all of your thinking, your approach, and clearly also the sort of the dynamic and sort of culture you created in that working team.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's only bound to be a success.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm going to give you some early congratulations and can't wait for the middle of March.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.