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Transcript

Keep Moving Forward: The Work Is Yours · UNLOADED

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to welcome everyone back to our podcast Unloaded.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is Michael Seahorn.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Shannon Morrow.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, last last episode, we not we, I, I hit the pause button.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Shannon was asking a very intricate, deep question about um grieving, as our last episode is uh talking about my personal thing going on right now with uh with my mom passing away last year and uh her birthday was just uh a few days back.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the last episode, Shannon asked a question Can you put something away and just leave it forever?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that's uh that's a deep question, man.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no right answer.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's not because I I in my head I just default to it's such a uh a human-to-human thing.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, exactly.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I've heard well.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I sit here and I smile before I say this.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can ignore things for almost your entire life.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know you can, I'll give you an example.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we'll unpack this at some other junction down the road, but so my my rear my real father um left when I was about two and never really saw the dude.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he decided on his literal deathbed to tell somebody that he wanted to speak with me and to talk to me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short, that's another podcast down the road.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was too late.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: By the time that the the the circumstances all figured themselves out, it was too late my father had passed away.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: By the time it finally got to me.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So in theory, I guess you could technically wait till the very last possible moment to unpack something.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very uh yeah, personal example of this.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's um I said, you know, there's a lot, there's just a lot going on, obviously, with uh, you know, talking about grieving and you know with my mom, but when you when you when you left when we left that cliffhanger out there, I was just just very quickly reminded like my dad waited to the very, very, very last hour, if you will, until it became important.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Never really got to see you and never got really one of his last wishes to be able to communicate with you whatever he wanted to say.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was too late at that point.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's again very case by case, person by person, the circumstances.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I where we met at the you know, through the VA at the Reno Vet Center, exclusively for combat veterans, when I was, you know, my four plus years, kind of more toward the beginning of this career.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I well clearly I worked with all veterans and a lot of their you know PTSD and things, and I led a group um for Vietnam vets.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exclusively Vietnam vets.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw a lot of them individually.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I we had our weekly group.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh in there I saw that you know thick uh steel safe at the bottom of the ocean, and that those guys wouldn't get near some of the sh things that they went through in Vietnam, some of the things they experienced and how it affected them, they just were adamant, very decided upon no, we're you we're never going there, we are never talking about it, I never want to think about it again, I just want to completely forever avoid that.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, with varying success, you know, for some, yeah, that was kind of their necessary course.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: They just nope, I I I am not ever going to think about that or talk about that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's gone to me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to forever let it be down at the bottom of the ocean.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and while also we saw then a lot of, you know, I mean, health problems, alcoholism, relationship issues.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of these guys had man, tough lives.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of things just kind of going sideways for them.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of struggles, a lot of distress in these other aspects of their lives.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, lives.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it's yeah, you can avoid something forever.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can choose, nope.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and it doesn't go away.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's sitting down there.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And okay.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's very case by case.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know, you know, but I I I do believe that when things are left unaddressed, when we uh uh uh don't process things, whether it's by choice or just by avoidance or dissociation, or when we just uh um it can fester down there and it can cause some other kinds of distress that might even be seemingly unrelated.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they would point at their wives or their kids or you know, their jobs or whatever, their neighbors, their, you know, um there's a lot of tough stuff going on in a lot of their lives.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I have a lot of compassion for they did not want to have to dredge up those old memories, those old emotions, and it was just too uncomfortable for them.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't force them.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I it would be unethical for me to I mean I could gently like, hey, maybe try to approach it, try to talk about how oof, allow for the opportunity, see if they're inch in that direction, but it's in the end, it's their decision, and you you gotta honor that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, when I when I left the monastery, uh Terramandala in Colorado, um the Lama that runs that uh monastery wrote another book called Feeding Your Demons.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't recommend that book to to just everybody.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very it's a very deep book, it's rooted in the uh Buddhist uh culture, um, you know, in the Tibetan culture as well.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very deep book, but it it talks about just exactly what Shannon is talking about.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of running from those demons that you stop, you turn around and you feed them.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um it was it was a very interesting read uh to think about the hard things that we need to face instead of running and hiding from it or stuffing it away for hopefully forever to then stop and turn around and not just acknowledge that but to feed it, to you know, allow for that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm not gonna go into that because that's a very deep, deep thing in the in the in the uh Buddhist world, if you will.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the the power there and what I what I took out of that is what we've talked about probably over the last I think we're in the ballpark of twenty-five to twenty-seven episodes now.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I that's what I do when I meditate.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I talk about with sitting with it, you know.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sitting with something, feeling the full emotion, not running from the emotion, not trying to stifle it in any way, shape, or form, but just to sit with that raw emotion, whatever that emotion may be.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Feel it, feel it deep, and then just allow yourself to to just process it in a way that once you sit with it for a time, it naturally will start to dissipate.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: It just needed your attention.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: You just you f you have to focus on that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I was talking about in the last podcast is because of the deep feeling that I have that I need to deal with my mom passing away, I know what that's going to be.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know what that rope's gonna look like, and I'm not running from it, and I'm not scared of it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just know my own self-practice.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be in a place and a time that I'm comfortable so that I can sit with it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: For however long that take.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It could be five seconds, it could be five hours.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But in that time, I don't want to rush through that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it can take weeks, it can take months, it can take years.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not specifically talking about your uh circumstances here, but this all takes time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure to what feed the demons?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like this isn't something you can just choose to, oh, I'm going to stop, turn around, face it, and feed it, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, no.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: First, you have to even recognize wait, there's demons over there, and then uh, what oof, what are the you know, you just to gain awareness of that and maybe start to see it more clearly, and that that can take some time, and then like, ooh, d do I actually want to allow for these emotions?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Am I actually going to uh experience the awful, terrible angst of grief and mourning and loss, and like, ooh, I don't know that I want to do that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, I'm not sure.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to turn around.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that that can take a long time.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do you even turn to start to face this stuff?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's can be a very gradual process, it's certainly not a straight line, you know, there's progress, regress, you know, and then but you know, if committed and just on the path and over time to you you start seeing it, you you choose to maybe even start being with it, and then allowing for it as you describe, and then whoa, you know, then someday before we uh really even uh uh recognize it's just oh wait, whoa, I'm a little lighter.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's not coming up for me as much now.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not as uh grindy about these things, or I'm not as triggered about this or that, you know, like whoa, you know, we we kind of discover, holy moly, I've I've made some progress with this.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and man, you should have predicated that you know some some of the things that I'm speaking of are they are metaphoric in thought, right?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an actual demon that's sitting in your room.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to I don't want to freak people out.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, wait, no, I'm talking about actual demons here, Michael.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking extra demons.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: That dude see the horns and the little tail and correct.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I just I need to throw that out there because I don't want to confuse anybody.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm talking about is in the spiritual world, and demons per se can be anything.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It could literally be anything.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like, man, I drink five cups of coffee every day.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Doc says I should only have two, it's my thing, I love it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna keep drinking five cups every day for the rest of my life.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's a choice, man.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when I say feed your demons, it's it's metaphorically speaking, but the demons are generally associated with things that we struggle with internally, right?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um Shannon is correct that this is this is anything but a freaking straight line.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um this yeah, this this is never gonna be a straight line.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, you know, I know that even for myself.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I say that you have to sit with things or I sit with things and process things, is that you know, this this may be you know seven, ten, twenty, thirty times of sitting with it over and over again because like Shannon's saying is certain things you may not may take you years to get over.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't it's different for everybody.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lifetime.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Could be a lifetime, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: It'll it'll decrease.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, it maybe won't be as frequent, maybe not as intense.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not as hard, it softens it up a little bit, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And even just even decades later, you just s find yourself caught at a red light, and suddenly something triggers a memory and you experience that little wave of emotion, you're like, whoa, I haven't felt that for a while, you know, and it's it can still be in there m to a much less degree, uh, you know, if allowing for the process of you know, wow, I remember the year after that happened, how intense that was for me, and it's it's not near as intense, not not near as often, and it oof, you know, it some things last a lifetime.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they do, and I you know, grief is definitely one of them.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you know, you're never gonna get rid of it a hundred percent.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you could, don't know.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's for each individual to go through.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: But like Shannon said, there are always gonna be reminders along the way, you know, even small ones.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I do feel that once you sit with it for a while and once you really try to grieve or process or whatever the word is you want to use, when those reminders come up, I I do know personally that they are a lot easier to just be like, Wow man, yeah, I miss it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I miss or miss them, miss that person, but I'm good.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then you move on.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's acceptance.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is okay that I'm sad.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay that I miss that person, it's okay that from time to time I still get misty eyed.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it doesn't mean that I'm not good.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still I'm on my way to work, I'm gonna have a very productive day, I'm fine.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm also allowing for that, yeah, of course I get sad from time to time.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Of course I but with the practice of allowing for the discomfort of these emotions rather than cutting them off, numbing them out, running away from them, trying to bury them completely, we just like have that awareness and acceptance for ouch, those really difficult emotions, and frankly, increased our tolerance for them.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And just like, yeah, it's okay having that acceptance for feeling the discomfort.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I gotta throw it out there too, is you know, this is where counselors really help, man.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is where it's important that if you can or if you have the desire to, man, is to reach out and chat with somebody.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because like Shannon alluded to earlier, you know, these professionals out there that deal with this mental health world, man, is you know, they've got some tools that we're not aware of, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: They've got training that we don't understand, that we haven't had, maybe.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of power in just being able to speak to somebody that has a lot of tools in the old tool bag.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the you know, I might only have a hammer, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And if I just hammer and everything all day long, well, the hammer sometimes just becomes dull and it just becomes ineffective, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not until you start to grow in your uh within yourself and grow within trying to be something better or try to produce something within you that's positive to help you along the way.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: When you meet people like Shannon, when you meet a mental health professional, when you meet people in this time and space, they could just hand you a screwdriver.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hey man, try this.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shit, I didn't think about that, you know what I mean?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I could use a screwdriver, so just beating it with a hammer, that probably would have worked better, right?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I use again, it's metaphorically speaking, but these tools, if you've never had an opportunity to be introduced to the tools, then how do you get to find the tools?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you can blindfold me, put me in a dark room, I'll bump in every fing wall there is, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't know where I'm at, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm literally going to bang into everything until I figure it out.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of I'd rather just take the damn blindfold off and be like, hey man, sit down here, let's have a conversation.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then start your journey.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I feel like, you know, for me personally, I had a good 40 years of stumbling around the dart.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was learning along the way for sure.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Learning a lot of things along that journey.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I really decided, man, I I need some damn help.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and when that moment came and I decided that was my new journey, it's like the floodgate opened, man.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to tell people this this is not something that's easy.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's not easy.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: It this is not it is not for the weaker heart.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna be honest with you all, man, because you know, when I opened those floodgates, it flooded.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean every day it was a flood for me, you know?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the psychologist, it was the psychiatrist, it was the group theories, the anger management, the I mean, it was just so much, and it was like one step at a time.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but those steps took months.
• 19:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and those months now it turns has turned into 12 continuous years.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I've picked up a lot of fucking tools along the way, man.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and thank the Lord for that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank the universe for that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank whatever it is you thank for that, because I I definitely wouldn't be the person I am sitting here today, man.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know that.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, what never came into existence.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for highlighting what a difficult journey it can be at times.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Even as we have discussed in way earlier podcasts, just even recognizing for ourselves, holy mo I think I need some help.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then being able to allow for that and maybe admit that to another and maybe start looking for that a little bit.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And even looking for that, you know, it's I very much appreciate how you regularly encourage to, yeah, hey, find someone, man, how valuable it is.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And even finding someone can be so difficult at times.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I it's scary, bro.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's not difficult, it's scary, bro.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Both, it can be very scary, and then even if you're brave enough to face those fears, like god, uh, I don't want to go through this, I don't want to reach out.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, there's a lot of it takes time, there's a lot of ambivalence and stuff, and back and forth, and uh and then finally you're like, okay, well, okay, psychologytoday.com, find a therapist.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, here's all the local therapists in the area.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good, there's their photographs, there's their little bios, you know, like, okay, I I see some of the therapists who are available in my area, uh, and you you might even be brave enough to email one or call one and then, nope, sorry, we're full.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, sorry, not accepting new clients.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, oh, you know, for whatever reasons, or you know, they don't maybe accept your insurance, or if you have to go that route.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's just even to begin the journey, it it can be you can face some pretty large difficulties.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And or even if you finally get into an office, you you're brave enough to to begin, you uh you lucky enough to find someone, get an appointment scheduled, you you finally get in there that day with uh all the you know lead up leading up to that, and then you don't like the person.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're just uh it's just not the right fit.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: They just they rub you a little wrong way, the personality is just you're just like uh right.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's common, man.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had clients, one and done, who have that experience with me.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not the right fit.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for something.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: something they're looking for and thank you for recognizing that and I do encourage please you know I could please continue to reach out please continue to look for someone find someone who is a more appropriate fit you know like there's a lot of different therapists counselors psychologists whatever it is you're looking for practitioners you know there's so many different ways that people can show up in service you know and um it's it is difficult to begin that journey and so worth it because once you've made it through a lot of that and find someone and have that connection and start to get that regular session every other week or even just once a month or maybe every week you know and you know there's a lot more available online if that's easier for folks.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just do in person that you know there's there's so much out there so much differences under the sun and you know if if you kind of recognize deep down that it will be of benefit to you even with the struggles of if getting there man just one step at a time just what's next and just maybe keep you know not a straight line but keep inching that direction and as things open to you and if you can get those regular services established for yourself it can be even life changing as Michael speaks to yeah and I th and and I'd like to just I've tapped on this before in a previous episode but I just want to bring it back is you know when when Shannon decided to move on in his career and left the vet center I think I went back twice and I don't remember the uh gentleman's name that I I spoke with uh after you departed but it wasn't happening.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't uh fit and I decided to pull the stops and you know it sucked and it was difficult but this is the big butt part is in Shannon's absence during that timeline I decided not to stop seeking change for myself and that is what led me into the to the Buddhist world and the Buddhist traditions where I found a lot of peace and a lot of uh just man just so for me man it was just like it was just so peaceful being in that time and space reading it and understanding it and practicing meditation and doing the things that they do which then ironically turned into when Shannon started his own practice and I came back with him he got to see a lot of change while he was doing his thing in me by doing something else in the meantime.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not traditional therapy I didn't see accounts for that entire time because I couldn't find a person I fit with but I didn't stop my journey.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for this thank you man that's it continuing forward because it ultimately is your journey with or without this practitioner with or without this that other practice or whatever components of your journal of your journey whether that's journaling oh journey journaling that makes a lot of sense right there you go man you know what whatever exercise one of the most important movement right sleep healthy diet all the things that go into holistic quality of life just overall well-being mental health emotional health physical health spiritual psychological health it's it's so unique to each individual and to just continue to want that and just continue to have the intention to man I I want to just kind of keep on with my journey keep on keeping on what's my path what's next and okay well I just lost my therapist he's quit the vet center okay well and I'm not quitting I've I've gained a little momentum here I'm I'm like ooh look what I've discovered what's Zen what peace what you know meditation ooh this really resonates and for you to continue because it is each of our individual journeys which is so much bigger than whoever along parts of the path you know can you know provide that companionship or assistance you know in that journey.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's it's important I know I know we talk a lot about you know counseling and things like that but it's important and the reason I find it so important is because you know even in my self journey while uh Shannon and I were apart or even when I lived in Hawaii for uh that time I still continue learning I still continue to grow in a different uh just different practices and different things but what I always came back to was it's just nice to have somebody that you can come in and just talk to who already knows your backstory who already gets you to have that foundation of like oh yeah right and they don't have to understand like Shannon didn't understand my practices and what I was doing but I didn't have to hide that and I didn't have to feel that I couldn't share that with Shannon.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was very open about that and where I was finding power and traction and peace in this journey but when you're going along for so long by yourself it's just so refreshing to come back to be able to talk to somebody that knows a little bit about you and is just there to talk to and I I tell people all the time I say the other thing that created this podcast was Shannon and I having many conversations about how people are so intimidated by the door the door that is the barrier between you and some professional help and what happens behind the door.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I told Shannon that from my perspective and he was like shit I forget about that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a lot of stigma is what happens when I go behind the closed door what's good what's it going to be like I have to lay down you gonna put a light on me like are we talking about why I didn't get enough hugs and kisses when I grew up no man I so so a lot of this podcast too was about bringing that day that that door down removing the veil letting people see behind the veil on what therapy could be what therapy can be.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people appreciate our podcast because I've I've people have reached out to me and just said hey man like it doesn't sound so bad.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not I I'm not ashamed.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay with me now that I tell people all the time hey where are you going?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: I got counseling today man you want a counselor absolutely I do I'll catch you later or if you need me text me or call me or I'll talk to you later like I don't hide it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I'm not ashamed of it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I I think it's an amazing thing and I think that there's a lot of power in it obviously but to be open enough and confident enough in myself to not hide it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to hide it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: No I'm a proponent yes for it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a champion of it that's what this is that's what this is is and you just said it a minute ago someone to go talk to that's that's basically it you're carrying around a lot there's professionals out there and it doesn't have to be the perfect you know oh the finally I found the perfect fit because therapists come and go you know and there's a lot of good ones out there there's some not you know and again it's not better or worse we're all just different and a lot of people seeking that are very different as well and just but finding good enough or yeah this works or yeah this is a fit you know and just oh good here's a place I can just unload the very name of this podcast.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can talk about things I can get some professional reframes or just you know just reflection and I I have this safe space this confidential space where I can walk in be on the other side of that door and just let it out and holy moly what a relief it is to let it out to just allow for myself to be seen in in a very safe compassionate way to get some gentle guidance from time to time that is the power in it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no it's great man thank you for that Shannon yeah well I think um well so I don't think it's it's time to end this episode as well but I know we've talked about it a few times um in the past about you know the journey up to Terramandala and the impact that had and just that whole process so that might be that might be coming sooner than later.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I know Shannon I've kicked that around a couple times.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a it's a deep journey but there's a lot of power in that and um I I think it's a pretty interesting story for sure.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just the how it led to my even going there and then you know the seven days of being by yourself with no other human interaction and then what that looked like on the other side.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah man there it is great.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah listeners have been asking for I've been getting a little bit of my feedback as well you know and like oh we like details we like stories we we like actual like the real world like you know concrete like oh tell that story with the details you know we get abstract a lot in here but when you are willing to actually tell the story rich with the details man that's like you just said that's golden.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Alright well we'll put it on the calendar all right just get after it man because that's what we do.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right well uh listeners out there thank you I appreciate uh all of you guys hanging with us today and listening to Shannon and I today uh like always uh we've said it a million times 988 is out there uh you can call or text them for free look for a local provider other than that man I wish everybody to be safe in whatever you're doing enjoy the time that you are uh doing the fun stuff that you want to do uh as for me this is Mike Seorn Shannon Morrow and we'll catch you on the next episode