Latest / Shouty Brain / #15: JAYFROMTHEMANOR
Transcript
- Trevor Holland: Hello, my name is Trevor Holland and welcome to Shouty Brain, the podcast from a late diagnosed Audi HD man on a voyage of discovery to find my people in a neurotypical world. Hope you're all doing very well this week. I'm doing very well as well. Thank you so much for asking. I say I'm doing well. I'm doing okay. I'm in the midst of a kind of period of burnout at the moment. But say la vie, we persevere. Now This week I'm joined by a very special guest by the name of Jay from the Manor. Now Jay is an artist and mentor with ADHD. We have a fantastic conversation around all sorts of things about ADHD, but also about things like food addiction and weight loss and turning up for yourself and creativity, what it is to be an artist and all sorts of stuff like that. It's a really interesting conversation. He's got a lot of really cool insights. I hope you enjoy it now. As I always ask, if you do enjoy this podcast, please do like, subscribe, turn on your notifications and otherwise engage with the podcast. I really appreciate your support. But without further ado, please enjoy Jay from the Manor. Welcome Jay from the Manor to Shouty Brain. You're alright bud? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I'm good. How are you? Trevor Holland: Yes, my friend. Very good. thanks for coming along. I want to address the elephant in the room before we proceed any further. Are you my son slash brother? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I very well could be. Did you have the joke that you were the milkmans growing up as well? Because Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: if that's the case, we could fully well be both wait, hang on, let's let's get the angle. Hang on, wait, give me two sec, let's do this properly. Trevor Holland: shit. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It could be. Trevor Holland: Yeah, man. It's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I'm just the thyroid version, honestly. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Fuck. Yeah man. I did g I yeah, I had the whole milk the whole Milkman thing when I was a kid. and actually my dad was a Milkman, but he wasn't the Milkman. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: that's amazing. Do you know what's so funny? Is my every time I got a bit shirty, my mum would like say to me, he he's turning Charlie. Do you know what? Because my dad's called Martin, got Martin, send him back to the Milkman. He'd be Yeah, you're the Milkman's anyway. You fucking no son of mine, are you? It's just like Both of them are not ginger. Well, my mum is like Albany, but Yeah, my dad is like platinum. So it's like what what on earth there? Trevor Holland: Well, my my mum was was was ginger and then kind of became blonde naturally somehow. And then my dad, olive skinned, five foot six, dark hair, and then I turned out six foot two, blonde hair. Honest to God, there's apart from the fact that I've in I inherited all of his fucking idiosyncrasies and personality and JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Okay. Trevor Holland: temp and temper and autism. If it wasn't for all of that, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: there would have straight up been questions about p about paternity. Yeah, man. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Who is this guy? Honestly, if I didn't look identical to my dad without a beard, you'd like it's it's pretty obvious. It's just he cannot grow a beard. Trevor Holland: Really? shit. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: When he did, I thought he looked amazing, he looked like Santa Claus. And I just said to Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: him, You gotta leave that man, it's so good. He's like he's so itchy. I'm like, But you're past the itchy stage now. Let Trevor Holland: Yeah. I is JAYFROMTHEMANOR: it grow. Trevor Holland: I I made such a horrible mistake, Jay, about 'cause I I've basically for as long as I've been able to have a beard physically I've had one. And JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, same. Trevor Holland: but every now and then because I've got I've got ADHD so I get the itch where I wanna just change things 'cause I get bored of the status quo. I every I don't know, five or six years I just shaved my beard off and every single time I do it I think the outcome's gonna be different from the last time I did it. the thing is from between between the last time I did it, which was about shit, about four months ago, but between that and the last time I did it, I've lost a lot of weight and I don't and I didn't really know what what gravity was doing to my face. and I was kind JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: of curious, think, I wonder what I look like without a beard now. What I look is about 75. I've got JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm mm. Trevor Holland: I've got all sorts of shit going on and jowls and like turkey necks that I didn't realise I had. And I was like, fuck. I almost didn't I I almost just didn't go out for a couple of months until it came back. I was like, I can't. It's horrible. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Please insert the you know the meme when they go Faa just over that bit Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: there. Dude, the thing is is I get that and I've I've recently been dropping quite a lot of weight. So I could always see through my beard there's a little there's a little chunk that's why I've this is honestly why I've grown and kept the beard. I've so self conscious of being fat that I was just like grow the beard. So I know that exact like wanna switch it up. I've only ever had the option in my eyes to shave my hair. So as of recent I've grown out the bloody mullet, right? Which is Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: which is crazy for me because I'm I'm thinning really like really badly. So I've been rocking the like the Action Bronson Baldy look for ages and my now like idiosyncrasy is like I'm gonna grow this ginormous mullet. Why not? Trevor Holland: I've I've got a lot of respect for the mullet. I didn't I did have a bit of a problem with it when it first started coming into fashion again. but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Recently, yeah, a couple of years ago. Trevor Holland: but I'm like I'm starting to see more and more of I'm like, you know what? Actually it's all right. Yeah. Now that it's not been coming forward yet. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It takes time now that it's not becoming cool again, now it's on the downtrend, it's like I think I like this. Yeah. We're so similar, it's so funny because Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: like I have this thing, it's the isn't it the definition of insanity is the same input expecting a different output. Trevor Holland: Hundred percent yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: So are we clinically insane? Is that the prognosis? Trevor Holland: Clickly insane, slash delusional, slash blindly optimistic that think that that that the the cosmic powers that be are are gonna somehow change the outcome of this thing. That I know damn well what the outcome's gonna be. But let's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: just see. Let's just see if it's gonna be different this time. Fuck it, let's try it. That's kind of my feeling, like, well and also sometimes I kind of forget what the outcome was last time. Well, the extent of it at least. I'm like, Yeah, I remember last time I shaved my beard off, I wasn't a h that big a fan of it, but how bad was it really? And then when I do it I'm like, yeah, I had a fucking nervous breakdown, didn't I, last time JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I think I think it's because we're so desperate for the dopamine of change that we're Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: willing to risk and forego all of that previous feeling just to get that like fuck it. I need it. so it's the decision. Once you've made the decision, the freedom is like, I've got this. But if you don't do it, it's like, well you're an idiot. Why didn't you go through with that? And then the s that negative feedback loop of like self hate is just perpetual motion, isn't it? Trevor Holland: What's bad is that once you've made the decision, even though you've got parts of your better judgment that are starting to come through. So you like you've made the decision but you haven't actually done the act yet. you're like it starts to creep in where you're like, actually, this isn't this is potentially not not a great idea that I I've got s lots of different eventualities in my head of things that are likely to transpire when I do this thing. But then you're like But I've already made a decision now. It's too late. Even though it's not too late, be like, No, no, no, I've made the choice now. I can't go back on it. I've I've I've done it. So do it. And then you do it and then the outcome you were worried about is exactly the outcome you get, if not worse. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, and it breeds this also this toughness, this mask that we don't really want. Whereas it'd be easier just to be like I messed up again. I'm moving on. if you just hold your hands up nowadays and just get past something, it's much easier than the that what was I saying? Like it than beating yourself up for knowing you've done something wrong. It's like really nowadays I find it really easy to be like I need I need to binge eat this evening. Because it's easier than dealing with the mental pain that it's giving me. This fucking food noise is killing me tonight. And I can't afford to go to bed at four in the morning when I'm up at eight to do, you know, work with kids. It's like I'd rather just eat the fucking pot of jelly. Or what I don't even care what it is. I just want dopamine. And with respect, I don't know if this is an 18 plus podcast, I don't want to fucking tug one out. I don't I don't wanna go and do all these other immediate fixes, which I think men should talk about anyway. But I just like now I'll just go and eat the thing guilt-free. And I swear to God, I'm back on the saddle the next day and I'm not declining into this slope of like, you know, those you know, those negative behaviours that you're on a mission to just ignore. Yeah, I I I find a lot of a lot of the people that I talk to that are not neurodivergent, that think they are, are stuck in a perpetual cycle. Of no, I'm totally fine. No, I c the the the denial and dismissal. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Do you do you get that? That's Trevor Holland: Yeah, absolutely. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: that's why I think you know, the awareness and like I said, probably diagnosing autism would be a very deep, very deep thing for me. however, I've not met the screening demands for it, but I feel like there's a lot of me that I sway back and forth between the typical ADHD and what looks like autism spectrum anyway. Yeah. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And one's in the passenger, yeah, it's a nuance, isn't it? Trevor Holland: I'm kind of envious of the fact that you're you know, my relationship with food is my god, horrible. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: I am not I'm I'm not like you in the sense that I can't make the decision that I need the dopamine here so I'm gonna eat some shit. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: But then be safe in the knowledge that the next day I can be back on back on the wagon and there's no because once I I'm off the wagon, I'm off the wagon. and JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: I've and once I've made that choice, I can kid myself all I like that I'd be like, this is just a one off it it gives me the taste again and I'm like literally it gives me the taste again and I'm like and I'm back. So JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: you know, I I God, that was a really hard thing to turn around. As well of all the things that have happened in my life over the last couple of decades, I think the one JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's the hardest. Trevor Holland: the one that I'm the most proud of, yet the one I talk about the least, is the fact that I was able to, you know, touch wood up till now. make the decision to change the way I I live around food and stick to it. So because I've been a yo yo dieter for years, but this time I've done it and I've fucking it's taken it's stuck. I I had to do something because I was on the I was I was killing myself with it. But I I JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: I got to the stage where I was thirty two and a half stone and JAYFROMTHEMANOR: wow. Okay. Trevor Holland: and I was I was always the guy who would make excuses and be like And people would would would would kind of perpetuate it as well because they'd be like, but you carry it well. You don't look that heavy. You carry it well. Because I'm they're so used to seeing me chunky, th they they wouldn't know what what what anything other realities like. But anyway, I got so big I JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm, mm. Trevor Holland: got so big that I the the the the doctors started being concerned about me. you know, I I was I I was diagnosed with fucking non alcoholic fatty liver disease. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: I was pick I was getting arthritis in my joints. I was just so sweaty. I was I had bad skin and it was just like I was just depressed. I was in pain all the time. And I'm like I at the point at that time I was only like forty one and I'm like although I'm no spring chicken, forty one, I'm I could've been sixty one and i i if if I just thought fucking hell, I'm I'm I'm gonna kill myself with this eventually. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: so I I needed to hit rock bottom in order to kinda do something about it. So I did. And I'm fourteen stone two years later. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: That's crazy. First of all, to interrupt you, fucking well done. Proud of you for that because I'm on part of that journey. Second of all, you don't look anywhere near the age you're even estimating, right? Dad and Or would you prefer daddy? No, I'm just saying. So Trevor Holland: Not daddy, no. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: and th and third of all, I think there's a really key thing here is that you've talked about that all or nothing pendulum. With needing to hit rock bottom, right? And I I'm with you. I have felt that all my recent attempts to lose weight recently have been ego driven and glorified by like I used to have a six pack and I used to be really hench. And it's like, Yeah, okay, should we go and find out why you can't lose weight? And since I did that, found out hypothyroidism, autoimmune. So no wonder it's been difficult and that I've eaten well. my whole life and I've had these binge eating episodes, was stuck on the metrazole, gut lining inflamed, esophageal ulcer at some point. You know, and and it's like all of that well, most of it has come from here and the thought process. That negative loop of I'll be alright. Do you know that that you're saying that sense of almost like foolishness, that blind, that blindness we get to like, I know the input, I know the outcome, I'll be alright. Trevor Holland: Uh-huh. Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Right. And to touch on it, somebody that I know recently, I don't wanna give out any any names because they're not healed from it yet, but their partner passed away, he just turned ADHD. He actually put me on to the same person that diagnosed him, was phenomenal. He was in his mid fifties and he had a really bad chest pain, went to the hospital, checked himself out and died a day later in his own home. yeah. And and the person that I know came downstairs to find that and they worked on him for, you know, a good few hours in in his own home. And it just lit something in me, because I knew him quite closely. it lit something in me that was like that inattentiveness is deep. It is crazy. It is part of the entire process that can really harm you. And it's it's self-harm, it's technically suicidal. I know people don't like to use those words It it is because you know otherwise and you choose to to bring harm. I'm sure you know the same thing. Getting up to two hundred odd kilo, even for your height, is no small feat. I mean, that had to have taken years of like that that loop, right? I talk about feedback loops a lot, these patterns. So for you to have broken a lifelong pattern, really a coping pattern, is phenomenal. And do you feel mentally clear now? I th mentally clear is a very like touchy word, but do you do you have that freedom? Trevor Holland: Yes. Yeah, I do, I do. It's it's you know, people talk about how how big an effect on your mental health it has to to to to lose weight or or even you ev i it's it's not even necessarily about losing weight, it's about having a healthier li lifestyle. Ha having JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Having respect for yourself as well. Trevor Holland: respect for yourself, moving around a bit more and just putting decent nutritious food into your body and actually feed feeding the engine properly. it it's had such a profound difference. Yes, I'm clear. Way clearer than I ever was. and it's actually given my ADHD medication an opportunity to actually do something. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Work. Yeah, right. Trevor Holland: Yeah. because, you know, I'm on the same dosage I was before, but I'm I'm like over fifty percent less mass than I was. So yes it's you know JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And I'm assuming your liver's also working in a much different way. It's able to process enzymes. Like I Trevor Holland: My liver works, yeah, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: mean, it a lot of people don't know your liver's the only thing that can come back from failure and back up to almost a hundred percent health. It's regenerative, right? And what's crazy is a lot of things are lipid transient. So if you take these medications and you have got an extra thirty kilo of fat on your body, there's a chance it's gonna get malabsorbed and not work properly. Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: it the the difference it's made has been ridiculous to the point where I I you know, I'm I'm retrospectively kind of pissed off with myself for the fact that I let it go on for so long because I'm like because JAYFROMTHEMANOR: So long. Trevor Holland: I I didn't I I didn't I had no idea how how good it could be. but that immediate feeling of shutting myself in a room with with with a certain quantity of food and knowing that that was all for me. as long as no one could as as long as no one knew no no you know no one can I don't JAYFROMTHEMANOR: That's the cause see it, yeah. Trevor Holland: want anyone seeing it or even knowing it's gonna happen. so I didn't just eat in si I didn't just eat in secret. I I I I cooked in secret and bought food in secret. I did all of it in secret. No, I s my wife Sarah knew it knew it was happening, but I would never get to the extent of like letting her necessarily see me at my worst. But I I just wanted that feeling. I got such comfort from it. Such comfort. And it it made me feel great. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. I'm the same, honestly. Trevor Holland: But it made me feel great for such a short amount of time. Bec Right. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Short period, yeah. It's like heroin. Like I I could I I've never taken it. I can just see from how TV's portrayed it, right? That that addiction is cra you know people call it cracky. It's like, just it's sugar, isn't it? A lot of the time it's not just refined sugar, it's sugars, right? And a lot of people bounce from the sugar to salty because the problem is, is your body is stressed with all the sugar in it, like like c classically stressed. And then you need salt to combat cortisol. So a lot of people don't realize that the crunch and the salt combats active stress. It's just archaic. You just want to crunch something salty, right? So I'm assuming back in the day it would have been chicken bones and cartilage and all the good things that you actually need with collagen and all that and all that as a byproduct. But I I used to I used to get a full share bag of crisps, smash that. Trevor Holland: Yes. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Chocolate, then go make some hash browns, beans and cheese, and then I'd this is what I'm saying, I'd hash browns, beans and cheese, maybe some fish fingers or s whatever. But then I'd wash it down with a a litre of Pepsi Max because I'm gonna leave this podcast right now you disagree that Pepsi Max is the best drink on the planet. Trevor Holland: Yeah, see ya later, bro. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah I am Bruce Zero then. It's fine, it's fine. We we'll talk, we'll talk. We've got we've got negotiation space, but I'd wash it all down and then once that settles, I my stomach could be in agony. And I was on a metrazole for years, which you shouldn't be. I should have weaned off, which I j I literally just have, it's been a month, but I was on a metrozole and I didn't realise how much that masked the the chaos and the food noise left as soon as I stopped taking it because It dropped my stomach acid down. I couldn't actually process food that was fermenting, which gave me something called SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So bacteria where it shouldn't be because it's fermented and not been killed off. So lining that up with constipation like chronic, so couldn't poo. Shoving food down at an alarming rate was just absolutely mate, killing me. And I'm In a month I'm t almost ten kilo down. so Trevor Holland: Beautiful. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I start I was at one two four at sort of like five foot eleven. I'd love to be arrogant and say I've reached six foot. I think I think once I s once I scraped it with like a a hiccup, maybe, you know. But But yeah, it just it just got alarming where all my bloods coming back as like, your cholesterol's a bit high, you know, and all this lot. And then a good friend of mine put me on to Someone called Cliff and Cliff is an absolute genius. And he's he took one look at my bloods that the doctors have had for over a year and a half now and went. There's a very clear pattern here, sir. Like a really clear pattern. And I don't know why they haven't said anything. So I'm not gonna put any more words in his mouth because I think Cliff likes to remain a bit more anonymous. but he has helped me more than anybody else has in my entire medical career in history. And it's put me on to things just just how to have foods and when to take certain like apple cider vinegar during a meal, not before or after. And the relief that my stomach is getting is in it's immediate, mate. And I I can't tell you that just dropping this 10 kilo, I'm sure you knew that first 10 was like, what? I don't have to stay this way. Like, I ca I can, mate, once you get that can do attitude. And the The problem with being neurodivergent is that that attitude is replicated to other people. And even when we struggle to do it ourselves, we we don't back ourselves. We're always very negative thinking. Like, we should be looking at ourselves in the mirror going, I'm fucking proud of you for doing one kilo. That's actually huge. It's seven and a half thousand calories. Or three and a half, sorry, three and a half thousand calories of not putting that in. That takes a huge leap. Instead we're like, Why didn't you do this earlier? It's like Fuck off. Fuck off. Gimme a rest, isn't it? Gimme a rest. Trevor Holland: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: It is starting to happen though, and it's one of the things that I've been one of the real positives about getting this autism diagnosis this year is it's allowed me or given me pause to to completely reevaluate so many aspects of my life and not only about my life but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: my at my own attitudes towards certain things. And I've spoken to a couple of people on this podcast about re repositioning or or or JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Reframing. Trevor Holland: reframing what success is and and being in a position to to yeah to back myself and and to actually give myself a pat on the back for things that if I'm gonna compare myself to other people would be a a a a non-entity of an achievement. But I'm not other people like JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: me and I've got my life and I've got my th my my crosses to bear and I've got my things going on. So the fact so taking everything else out of the equation, I had an objective and I managed to do that in spite of everything. Fucking give yourself a pat on the back for it. So every single time I do anything even slightly positive or productive or something that I can see as, you know, an achievement of any sort, I'm I'm I'm giving myself a bit more kind of Yeah, well done, mate. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: Well done, mate. And and try but then the opposite is those times when and you don't quite manage it. It's it's it's being like, Yeah, but you tried, didn't you? You've done you know, it's fine. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Give yourself a break. Like, I think Trevor Holland: Yes. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: the hardest thing to do is slow down and just recognize in the moment if you can stop a negative feedback loop, you have won. You have fucking won the day, right? Do do the big thing in the morning, do the big task, the big ask, do the hard thing in the morning, and fucking go to bed. It's one day. Do you know what? It's not even, it's a third of a percent of a year, right? To write off a couple more hours to be bang on it tomorrow. And if you're not. Look, there there is a point where you have to sort of bootstrap yourself and say, come on now, mate, you need to a little bit more. But it's not you are this or else, or you should or would or could. There's none of this pressure. It's I think what you're describing for me is what I call dead life envy, right? It's a it's a life that you wish you had. Right? So for example, you're you're 200 kilo, you're saying, and you're looking at it and you're eating all this shit. You're tucked away in your room, and then you're like, I wish I could be that. And I know I can't. Of course you can't. And then it's the devil and angel going, Well, of course you can't. And actually, I'm I'm jealous that I can't be that. So fuck you. So you almost have two people inside yourself where one's going, Fuck you. Cause I I'm in here, yeah. I and I really fucking want change. I really want change. But also, who the fuck are you to tell me what to do? There's this internal battle of just Constant pain, constant neglect, constant pressure. And then when the pressure gets too much, straight onto the food. And it Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: the food could lead to eating more food. So it's like you get you see yourself, right? Like there's nothing better than to be seen by someone else who's supportive and go, You've got a problem, I can help you. Whereas what we do internally is, you've got a problem, I'm not going to help you. And then the other side goes, but I just need some time. And you go, fuck you. And then it's like, well, yeah, fuck me. I I hate my life. And then it's just under the water. It's so, it's so imperative to, you know, I think I hate to be, I hate to be this guy, but Confucius said it the best, right? A man believes he has two lives, and the first one doesn't begin until he realizes he only has one, which is now. There is no past, there is no future, you only live in the now. You if you can make that decision and you can say to yourself, I am okay with this. Those two, like that yin-yang of that, that that black and that white of they both serve a purpose. But unfortunately, we we don't get that. We have that pendulum. It's like I I describe it for me as like the black is wanting to retreat and doing all things bad for you in the future. So eating bad is bad for you long term, but it can absolutely be a tool for the now. It can absolutely be what. Honestly, what is a boost bar or a kit cat? It's calories. It's not this nuance of this is going to kill me. It it will in volume, but in that single moment, that kit cat could be the difference between you being happy as fuck or depressed. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: So that black is all dopamine chasing, like, yeah. And then the white is preventative measures and we'll have an apple instead. So trying to reach that pendulum into the middle and going, I can live harmoniously between the two. For me is what has changed my mindset on eating. And then it extends to everything. Love life, relationship with my child, instead of being like, I'm this like super energetic, fun parent that just ignores discipline and is like, wow, I'm in the moment, and then there's well, that's bit him in the ass 'cause it's nine PM and she's up absolutely raring to go. I think bridging that pendulum, sitting in the middle and actually taking time to like, you know. really be like like I said, for me it's like really visible, that peaceful in the middle. Okay, self-reflect. I've I've had a really tough day. Like really tough day. I've coped well. I think people shift the mindset from beating yourself up for having done something, but that's coping. You should be able to cope. If you're not winning, you you can cope. You can float above the water. You know, being being here is better than being under, isn't it? You know, and be for you, if you now look back as a reframe, Being was it thirty thirty stone you said, right? Thirty stone is like you're you're at the water and you're like, Whew, I'm I'm here. I'd I I may know how I've got here, but all of a sudden, mate, you're You're at the fucking water, you're not swimming anymore. You should absolutely give yourself all the credit, you should back it, you should start a fitness YouTube channel and get fucking get all that money in, man. Where's all this fucking revenue from that ginormous weight loss? Like I think you've absolutely smashed it and you've inspired me to do it as well. You know, if Trevor Holland: brother. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: you if if you can do it from from that, what what am I then what am I worried about going from a hundred and twenty to ninety? I've got thirty to lose and I'm ten down already. Trevor Holland: mate. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: No, seriously, you you you need you need your flowers because we don't hear it enough. So salute. Mmm. Trevor Holland: Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. And honestly, you're you're you're gonna you're gonna kill it as well, man. I mean you're a third you you're a third of the way through already. How long have you been doing it? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Th third of the way through a month. Trevor Holland: man, you're gonna be fine. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: By Christmas I'm gonna see my see the extra inch I've been missing out on. Trevor Holland: And the rest, bro. Fuck. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Not me not me looking at the fruit bowl with that banana sat there. Yeah boy can we say the n-word yet? No I'm joking. That's you you can cli you can keep that in or clip it, whatever. But Trevor Holland: Uh-huh. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah boy stick. Trevor Holland: Yeah, man. Yeah, honestly it is and to your point actually. I'm I've been desperately like over the last few months since I my diagnosis and I started this podcast and I started doing all the other various bits I'm doing as well. I'm like I I I need to get out of if there's if there's one big thing in in in my current in my current circumstances that needs to change is that I need to get out of traditional employment. I need to get out of it. Because I've realized I've come to terms with the fact that it is absolutely incompatible with me. but I've been man but I've managed. Just like I've coped, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You coped really well, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: I've managed. But the but the cracks are showing now. I I I can't make I can do it, but I can't always do it. I can't maintain it. So I I have periods. exactly. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Just giving yourself that space in the middle, man. Sometimes you just need a day. Trevor Holland: I have periods where I need I I just need the odd kind of time off just to reset because I burn myself out because of the performance of of be of of being in a a neuroty JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah. Performance anxiety, yeah. Trevor Holland: Yeah, but being in a neurotypical kind of environment where where I you know, I'm I'm I'm in a position of management as well. So I need to like I need to play a character every time I go to work because JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You need to deliver, yeah. Trevor Holland: and that character is not me at all. so I have to be someone else. but I can't do it all the time. So I and I've come to realise JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: look man I I've got to find a way to to to to not have to do this anymore. because it's just not you know, I I read such a the statistic about autistic adults and only forty percent of them having a job is JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, wha that's ridiculous. This could be a really good segue to talk about my past three years 'cause I've done what you wanna do. Trevor Holland: Well, I'm gonna be bending your ear about that. and you know, I I need to I've got a lot of drive at the moment, I've got a lot of a lot of eyes in the fire, lots of ideas. but I'm a I'm a I'm a solitary guy. I like to do stuff within my own comfort zones. And most of the stuff I do doesn't necessarily get me out into the world. It's stuff that I like doing behind the behind a desk, behind a PC. But but either s either way I'm I'm kind of desperate to to start monetizing the things that I do that I'm really good at doing. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And you deserve to. Trevor Holland: thank you. I feel like I do as well. but but it doesn't even occur to me to think, well, what if I can somehow deservedly so, one could argue, make a little bit of money off the back of the fact that I've turned my life around and and and and lost Over a hundred ke kilograms and kept it off. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Why did I say I wasn't even joking? Like, dude, there's a there's motivation in it, right? People can't buy motivation, you have to find it. But people will buy into yours and your mission because that's what well it's it's jealousy, isn't it? It's envy. You know, people buy into envy just just because it makes them feel better. And selfishly, if you look at that saying, Well, I've done it, I deserve it. But it's not even that, you're also able to give back to people your message. Is niched, right? Because you're neurodivergent, you're open about it, you're willing to talk about it, which is th those three things already, you've beaten the the paradigm. You've lost all the weight, you've got a reason why. It that might stick for someone. If genuinely, if someone came up to you and went, Look, you've saved me from end stage liver failure, yeah. I've I've turned my life around, I'm doing this, would that not fill you with the most amount of joy? of course it would. Trevor Holland: Yeah, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And you're already doing it. And that's the difference. You've actually got to realise that you're already doing that. Because like I said, you've given me inspiration to, you know, I've been slipping very slightly. Not not much, but the awareness for me is like the guilt's starting come back in a little bit. So this morning, I'm skipping breakfast. Cause I feel fine. I will have my breakfast after this, but like I can beat that noise. I can fucking do this today because of something you have done. So I absolutely feel like you can, you know A, get someone on board to run things that you're not good at. That's the fuck that's the fucking that's the Trevor Holland: my god. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: A game. We need VAs, that's what we need as as Neurodivergence. We need virtual assistants that have access to our PC. Not the porn, but the the the rest, you know, because we we we really need help like organizing. Trevor Holland: It's really rough that part of it. It's being being a a JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's tough. Trevor Holland: solo venture. Anything you're doing is a solo venture. I mean I've got the support of my wife and she's excellent and everything, but but I I I take on every aspect of it and there are some bits of it that I'm like, this fucking sucks, man And it fries my brain. It makes me feel like a stupid JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It sucks. This absolutely is shit. Yeah. Trevor Holland: prick because but I'm not, but I do certain things that because it's so taxing, I find it just fucking fries my head and I get really frustrated and I'm like, It's not supposed to be like this But JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Do you have the do you have the multiple battery syndrome? Do you see the divert have you gone down that route of looking at the battery system for neurodivergence? Trevor Holland: Come on. Talk to me about it. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You have to figure out how many batteries you've got, Trevor Holland: Right. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: right? So it might take a lot a lot of awareness and a lot of time to figure this out. However, I know that I don't just have your your typical like iPhone battery, right? I have a very nuanced system. I have a creative battery, which gets topped up every time I do something creative. And it holds its charge for me. I then have a physical battery that if I exercise and eat well, again, that's right through the roof. I have a like meg mental cognitive battery, because that is not the same as physical. I can have days where I'm physically in the bin. My brain is like I'm squirreling away and I'm I'm writing serious data and and whatnot. I then have an emotional battery. 'Cause again, that is that's non conflicting of the last two. I then have a social battery, I then have a father battery, they're all different capacities. Now, what I have found is burnout for me is when all of them are below fifty percent. Roughly. I kinda know when I'm getting to the point I start feeling fluey and I push on. I I have that you could do more, you should do better. It's when that creeps in and it does, right? It's it's basically an anxiety that always changes, it's it's ever changing and it knows how to beat you tomorrow. Once that comes in, I now just write it off. I just get to sort of sometimes it's a daily, sometimes that daily drain on certain things, like for example, the social battery. If somebody says something to wind me up, I mean we can talk about it. I I got arrested recent last year, at the time of the diagnosis, which led this whole journey. And somebody did something that really sparked a bit of rage in me. And that battery was obviously at the bottom, right? That battery was right, I'm talking 3% maybe, along with physical battery was right at the bottom. Mental battery was at the bottom. Creativity I'd had none. And creativity is the one that helps raise all of them for me. And rest and reset as well. But I think when you can figure out your battery system, I'm not sure of the actual psychology behind it, that you can manage these systems way better, especially with with work as well. Like, you know, trying to launch the business that I'm going into, I've got to look at marketing, finances, per personal relations, lead generation, building work, all those things. Just take a massive toll. And again, if you can separate them into what can I delegate? Can I get food on the table for me that I don't have to cook tonight without a decision? Can somebody else top up my social battery today? Can I reach out? Can I just can I just talk and dump half of this stuff and not waste the whole battery's worth internalizing? You know, I think there's also that battery that what gets wasted. It's like an intern it's like an internal battery, like I said. If we're internalizing and processing all this information and not not journaling, not writing this stuff down, once that hits zero, aha, good luck boy. Tornado's coming. I'm here. Ha ha Who wants the baseball bat? Because if if it ain't gonna be you, it's gonna be me. And I'm gonna eat myself into fucking hell. So yeah, it's it's a really it's a really eye-opening way of looking at things for me, because It gives me dopamine to think, ooh, what battery can I top up today when I've got a bit spare time? And I'm like, bit of health. Well, but I know a bath helps. I'm gonna have I'm gonna have a bath with bath salts. Cause I'm I'm fancy. I'm I'm a I'm a sassy little man. Let's do it. Like I want my bath. You know, and if I want some fruit, if I want a chocolate, again, I'm topping up the mental. There's so many things that can be that black, that little immediate dosage that can actually be used as a positive that like. I don't want a fucking apple today, I don't want a banana, I want that dark chocolate I want Bourneville. Right? I want Yeah. Do you know what I mean? There's it Trevor Holland: Yes, pr yes. No, that's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: doesn't have to be food, but Trevor Holland: no, that's that's a really interesting way of looking at it actually. Yeah, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's a reframe, isn't it? Trevor Holland: it is it and it's true, it's absolutely true. you hit the name on the head there. There are multiple batteries, and they they all need different things. They all drain at different speeds. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I I t I tend to focus on I focus quite minimally on on ma the the main th f driver for me is in when I when I whenever I'm gauging my own batteries, the one that I look to first is my social battery. because that's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm, mm. Trevor Holland: the one that ostensibly kind of seems to affect the most amount of things when I'm when I'm putting myself out in in the in the world, because my social battery includes leaving the house and being able to cope with the world. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: and interacting with any other human being ever. that's the one that I tend to gauge my own battery levels on. Like if if I've if I've got a low social battery, I kind of assume that everything else is fucked as well, but it's not necessarily the case. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, do you find external validation sits in that? Trevor Holland: Well I I'd like to tell myself that I don't require external validation anymore or as much as I used to. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: because I'm a little bit more able to to pat my like I said, pat myself on the back. but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: I still I still do need it. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Same, it's a massive driver for neurodivergence is what I'm sort of getting at. You know, I'm not trying to trap you into admitting that. It's like People can say being like stoic is great. Yeah, it's there's times when I couldn't give a flying fuck what people think about me. And I try I try and utilize that as a tool to make business moves and you know weight loss and everything. Going in that gym, right? External validation meter is off the charts. What are they gonna think of me, this fat git? Nobody's thinking about you. Trevor Holland: Yeah, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And if they do, how are they gonna say it to your face? And if they do, you've got the chance to walk away anyway. And retain all of that peace and freedom and and strength and everything. You you have a choice in every moment to step into growth or stay in the comfort zone. But external validation can prevent the crossover, which is really, really difficult sometimes. And I think you're right. Going out into that big world today, I'm going to meet a new school. I I've just taken on a job where I I art mentor special provisions. alternative provisions. I think special is really not a nice word, sorry. and I'm going to meet a new school. I'm gonna go talk about things, which is a big, it's a big ask to be this masked, wonderful, bubbly, like, hey, I've got a throat tattoo, but it doesn't mean anything. Like, you know, I'm I I Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: promise I'm not this big aggressive thing. I'm just a I'm here to art men like, you know, to art mentorship and that wore on me last night because I I'm seeking ex external validation that they think that I'm worth the job. Whereas here's what I do, here's what I'm passionate about, the ball's in their court. I have to relinquish that control, which something I really struggle with is to give control over and let someone else's opinion live in the world. I don't know if you I don't know if you struggle with that. I like I had an incident, like I said, that led led me to being arrested where I let somebody else's opinion of me stay out there that I thought needed to be shut down. I thought I needed to prove that I was tougher than somebody else in an instant. I didn't hit anybody. I didn't even threaten anybody. But it's again, that that I'm gonna save that story. I haven't actually told anybody online outside. I wanna save that story for my own sort of like opening. I'm gonna do a talk at my new place. But yeah, it led me to like think What the f who what am I proving here to anybody? Why do I need to go out and alter the happiness and the way I live and my like self self-love? Why do I need to find it externally? And it what we don't realise is that this like schooling systems and work and everything growing up in a neurotypical world has really really fucked us up because I think Where I try to intervene is just I'm I'm sure with you I've cut you off and gone like, no, no, no, give yourself a break for a sec. You should love yourself a bit more, man. Like, I'll I'll try to intervene with people and kids and and anybody who's suffering that that feedback loop of you don't need my external evaluation. You need a friend. You're fucking smashing it, man. And I mean it as well. People mate, I had I did these art classes, right? And I had 30 people in a night. It was amazing. And People walk around, I can't even draw a stick man. And I'm like, Well, you can, because you know, you're doing this. But yours is amazing. Yeah, but have you put 10,000 hours into painting? I have. And I don't even think I'm good. So I'm I'm leveling with you. I'm saying that it's a it's a thinking pattern. It's not to do with your skill set. And also, who fucking cares? You're creating, you're having a great time. You're with other people. Yeah, like. Trevor Holland: That's yeah. That's the key, man. That's the key. I don't I don't buy into the look, I I can I understand the pe the the people I I think th people might struggle to differentiate between technical skill and artistry, you know. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: art and technical skill the two entirely different things. So I am a shit no, I'm not a shit artist, but I JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You were about to get verbally beaten up. Trevor Holland: I'm not sure. I JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: I'm someone who's got a h high level technical skill and that technical skill is in portraiture. I I can JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Ooh. Trevor Holland: I can I can I can I can paint portraiture in a in a in a in a but not in a hyper realistic way, but my my drawing is at a level that is admirable to some people. People will be like, You're such a good artist and I'd no So but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You get told that a lot, right? Yeah. I Trevor Holland: And but I never do JAYFROMTHEMANOR: yeah. Trevor Holland: much with it. Not not an awful lot. Because it's a technical skill, it's something that's quite taxing. It's something that I often find quite boring. It's something that I can do well. But there's a diff but that's not what an artist is. But that's not an artist. That's someone who who has JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Doesn't excite you, does it? Exactly. Trevor Holland: a technical a s a technical skill. It's a craft. It's n so if you're having a conversation with me about I can't I I'm a shit artist, I c I can't draw a stick man, it's like what but that's not what being an artist is. Being an artist is is is an i it is is a a raw creativity and and and and what it is and what it looks like is is it becomes less relevant because it's what what you're getting out of it and what you're portraying when you do it. It's trying to change the way you think about about what it is to be an artist. If you're saying you want to be you want to be a a portrait artist then then and and you want to paint in a certain style that requires a certain amount of technical skill and and and realism, then maybe you're not that great at that. But that doesn't mean you're a shit JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: artist. That's a completely different thing. It's so hard to get people to change their thinking. So is that what you try to do with people a little bit? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, I have a I have a really I think an exciting way of thinking about art. Art is yours, okay? Art is art is anti perfectionism. Right? Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: That's what people get very confused. That skill set, like you're saying, has a bar of perfectionism, portraiture. If you can make it look photorealistic, that is the ceiling cap for For art in that fashion, right? Because you're removing all sense of personal blushstroke and you're showing off how good you are. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Whereas I try to look at it, I still have envy. I'm still jealous of people that are amazing at these things because it's like there's potential there. There's always this thing of like, wow, look at your potential. You could do this, it's just pressure, right? Art. Art is a way of soothing your inner child, right? Your inner self. It's a way of getting emotions processed before it reaches the ego for me, right? Before I need to prove anything to anyone, before the noise comes in that you're worthless or you're amazing or anything. Art is just it's an archaic thing. There's cave paintings, it's a it's a pastime. Not a P A S T, a P A S time, a past time. It's it's a way to regulate emotions, to combat cortisol. It helps with self-worth. When you're actually creating, it you just connect with a higher a higher level of agency, a higher level of being in yourself. And it's to me it's such a nuanced thing and there's not enough knowledge out there. It's really difficult to pin. But it's my goal to make a creative reset, a protocol. To help people. And that's what I'm trying to input with these kids. I currently at key stage four, key stage three, a time where I got really failed in the school system, especially now retrospectively thinking about neurodivergence, right? I teach people that it doesn't matter, right? It's the hardest thing to say to someone, stop overthinking, you're overthinking, and it's like. Yeah, I'm overthinking. This is fucking shit. So I'm saying to stop. Like it's like, look, the the reality is, whether you pick up a paintbrush, whether you whether you drive a car creatively, I I don't give a shit. As long as you're pushing the boundaries of the comfort zone. If you if you draw every day and you're building a skill set and it's still good for cortisol reduction, it's still good for serotonin your oil endorphins. That's great. But if you're pursuing a career or a life as an artist, right? If you want to call yourself an artist, I think that there's you should be pushing the boundaries of what conventional art means. What what like who designed the DJI logo? Like, why did they get paid probably close to a million quid for it? Or probably heavily underpaid, actually, let's just get the reality of it real. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Why is it exciting to have, you know, artwork on this little cup? Like, what is it about This, what the colour, the compositions, why does it feel nice on the eyes? I want people to question. I want you to come in and go, like, can I be a graffiti mural artist? Of course you can. Do you know how to help me? Well, actually, yeah, I've got expertise and skill set in it. But what I try and tell people is: I'm not a portraiture artist, I'm not a landscape artist. I'm someone who creates. I'm someone who takes the time to create and to back up that creating is. Is cool. It's it's fucking great. Like it's people don't realize that they need it. There's CEOs and businessmen that have stopped doing that. And they would say to me, I used to do this as a kid. And I'm like, You are a kid. Like, let's just drop this facade and ego because you your your value in this room you think is just financial or some sort of aggressive nature towards something. And you're looking at me and you feel. Resent that you're not like me. I I get that a lot. There's people that when I teach them, they're like, You're so free, you're so open. And I'm like, at what cost though? I don't have much in the bank. I don't own my home. You know? But my daughter comes and sits and paints with me when I feel sad and she can see it. She's empathetic for it. That has more value than anything you could ever wage against me if it was a poker match. And I don't give a fuck. Like, I want you, I want you to have that feeling and and being. truly creative can give you that feeling. You can have all the money, you can have the Mustang, the Porsche, the house. But when you're at home and and you're jealous and you're looking through and the people that are are putting likes and comments on art that has a million likes, etc. I would assume 50 to 60% of those people are sat there envious and jealous. And they can do it. That's the difference, right? Like yourself, you could have a portraiture business. Does that excite you? Probably not. Would would freedom In creativity excite you? Probably. Right? Be able to like quit your job and be an artist forever. It's a fucking dream. Well for me anyway. So I found a way to bottle that feeling. And I can give people a small dose of it. And then once they've sort of once I can see that they've opened up and they're receptive of it, I'm like, come here, I can help you, man. I can really open your mindset. I don't give people any skills per se, right? I I can I can teach you how to be an acrylic painter or a digital artist or spray painter or I did a long stint tattooing, you know. I can teach you all these skill sets, but all the gear, no idea, if you're not doing it for the right reasons, right? Mm. Trevor Holland: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So talk to me then what's the manner? Talk to me about the manner. Alright. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I don't want to. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. You'll soon get to know me. I'm so contrary. My dad calls me a contrary git. And that's Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: actually what the the the thoughts go. No, that the manor is a space to to facilitate that. It's an incubator of what I've just spoken about. So my pseudo name for my art is Jay from the manor. I'm just a boy from the way. I grew up in North London. I'm a bit of a cheeky chap, right? I grew up seeing a lot of violence, which I've only recently come to realise I've been diagnosed with PTSD from. Right, I really had no idea. I grew up in a tough a tough ends. I grew up in, like I said, in the bits. And the manor is just another way. It's not a manor house. Well, do you what? Fuck it's whatever you want it to be, it's church. Like, I'm not religious, but if it's your church, it's your safe place, right? But I didn't want to call it the, you know, safe house. Like, Trevor Holland: Yeah, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: you know, I thought about loads of names like the keep. you know, it's it's the place in a in a castle where The king is kept safe, and it's like you should believe you're the king. And I went on this fucking massive, like massive, it it killed me for months to think, what's the name for this? And what's the premise? And look, if I could sit you down in my kitchen and could make you feel like this was your keep and your castle, your part of your manor, I I wanted to be like special and individual with Jay from the manor, but actually what I'm trying to promote people is you could be Trev from the manor. Like I want you to feel like You're part of something, right? There's a there's a whole lost and forgotten people, and I I'm saying it's the neurodivergence. It's not specifically too neurodivergence, but there's a lot of lost people that need just a place to work amongst people. So part of it's a creative co-working space. It's gonna provide synergy, serendipity is my favorite word. I want the serendipity of sitting down in a room. I mean, you and I have organized this, so it's not technically serendipity. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: However, I want people to come to a place where you could turn up, you get your day pass or whatever, you turn up, it's affordable, you hang out, you get inspired all of a sudden, and there's access to materials. So you can turn up just as yourself, and by the end of the day, you're creating a mosaic or you're learning to tattoo with a tattoo machine on fake skin or you're doing we're gonna have a mural wall. So you can paint on the mural wall and you can rent an iPad, you can learn to edit, you can do Photoshop, you know, you can do all of that. It's it's that place. There isn't a place like that, I don't think, anywhere in the country. I Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I don't think there is a place where you can just go and unlock and unwind and and do right. I'm I'm stripping it right back to to my god, is it a verb? Is it doing word? As a verb? Or is it an adjective? No. I'm trying Trevor Holland: What is is what is what word of what word? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: to str I'm trying to strip back the the process of the manner. You come to do, you you like is is the word do a verb? Trevor Holland: Yeah, I think it must be. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mad, I obviously I've I've retained this. I've got fantastic eloquence in language. I cannot describe to you what it is. I want just to do, to strip it right back to just the uga booger, the basic get out of your thinking brain and get into your uga booger brain and just just do something. Come here. Or or do or do nothing, but still just do. Don't Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: sit in the middle and pretend that like this is an office for you to get your maths done or your finances or your fucking marketing or whatever. You could do that, but my my premise is I I really want you to To come here and and relax, take the mask off. You know, we're we're gonna have a movie night and we're gonna talk about the movie and we're gonna do music night, paint what you hear. You know, we're gonna have we're gonna have nights where you bring your own toy car to build, you know, the little model building. Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I want a night where you build a chessboard, you paint your own. I want people to start creating and taking away from Amazon and you know, just digital nightmares just Playing games. I again we'll have a fucking Tekken tournament night to connect. I I think amidst all the workshops and the seriousness, the manager's just gonna provide like a rec centre for adults and and you know I could over talk it all day long and sell it, but the premise is that you come in and you just feel safe enough to create. Trevor Holland: I love it, man. That sounds great. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Thanks. It it's so hard because it's my my little love child that I want to sell every aspect of it. I mean that there's gonna be a podcast studio in there that it's gonna be fully managed and manned. It's gonna have content creation if you wanna start your own YouTube channel. And I promise you I'm doing this off of a thousand square foot. It like you don't need much to start it, you know, low cost per month. But my my mindset is just that everybody deserves the opportunity to To have a taste of that. All you need is a taste. I'm sure you understand. In negative and positive terms, all you need is a taste to go down that rabbit hole. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Why don't we bottle that and make it positive? You know? Trevor Holland: So when is that starting? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Next month. Trevor Holland: Shit man. You excited? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, I've I'm fucking nervous, man, of course. I am excited. but luckily for me I've got a decent team and a very supportive father who is helping out massively. So shout out Big Martin. Yeah, it's been a long time coming though. The the planning has been well over a year and a half, maybe two years. and there's all that you know, ain't nothing to it but to do it. I've got to get out of the way of myself, right? Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I can see all the negatives and I'm like, mmm. Whereas I've got to bulldoze through and not give a shit about what some of the people locally think about me and some of the upset I've I've caused for being outspoken and being quite like being quite passionate about AI and art. I I I oppose a lot of people on the premise that AI are is bad. It's not if it gets people creating. They don't need to use the slop and the shit. But I'm very passionate about if it gets if it gets somebody motivated to do their own thing, fuck it. You're all gonna you're all gonna have forgotten about this little this little blip in the AI world in three, four years' time. And then you've chastised somebody for no reason. So that's my that's why I've upset quite a lot of people locally. And you also don't have to turn up to my business. I want people that are of this mindset, their abundance mindset, and they wanna They want to do something with their life, you know. Trevor Holland: Yeah, that's brilliant. So where where do people where do people go to learn more about it? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Come to my Instagram at the moment at Joy from the Manor. I'm currently setting up the socials. An opportunity for a property landed in my lap. So I'm having to now backtrack and really work hard to get a website, a waiting list up and running, etc. but by the time this is out, I don't think that's going to be finished yet. I think we're gonna have the website and everything about two weeks away from launch, which is about I think I'm hoping to launch for the first of November. So, yeah. You can't see, but I'm tapping away. I'm like trying to process the the the anxiety of it all unwinding. But yeah, come to my Instagram, drop me a DM, just ask. Trevor Holland: No, that's that's brilliant. So what you do what's what's your what's your business day to day? are you an artist? if you don't pigeonhole yourself, but wha wha what what is your day to day? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I'm dad first, Jordan second, Trevor Holland: Uh-huh. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: and third I I'm an art mentor in alternative alternative provision. So kids that have been kicked out of school. I don't like the word kicked out because they're not kicked out. Kids that don't fit in the normal school system and they're in sort of cu community led schools or privatised schools that are trying to help out. that's what I do well. I do it part time to be honest and the rest I'm I'm creating. I'm quite a jack of all trades. So I take on commissions, I do war murals. A lot of people know me for the Rail Bedford tunnel project. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I do what else do I do? It's it's a it's a long it's a long list of things. I do paint and sip evenings. I did that for a long time. I'm just about to take on some more to get some more money through the door to support the business. But all of that is going to be wound back once the mana launches, and I'm just going to be in there twenty four seven, gassing up the people of Bedford. however, to give you a bit of backstory, my latest job was at the telegraph. I was a image editor at the Telegraph, worked on some of the front page, etc. So that's like that was my big corporate I worked my way up to that, which was great. I've done some HGVing, I've been a chef, like I've done all the all the things that are like I can make a new career with this and then Yeah, gone. Trevor Holland: Yeah. I thought I thought no, I talked about that last week. when I did when I did an episode last week on my own and I I read I read off off my monitor a list of some of the things I've started and and not quite mate, it was a it was JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Your employment, yeah. Was it like the Star Wars ending, just just non star? Trevor Holland: a long list and the thing is I for it it wasn't exhaustive by any means but it's just cre it's just the amount of different the amount of different pies I fingered Or or at least started to. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mate, it's the thing is though is Being being forced to go to work, I know it sounds like such a privilege, right? Being forced to go to work is not the one for the new and divergent brain. And that's why a lot of the selfish plug here, a lot of the manner's gonna help people get from that confusion and being stuck to being unstuck and taking charge of your own domain, right? I think it's very important. I won't be able to do it alone. There's gonna be a lot of help. And this is something I wanted to talk to you about, whether you wanted to get involved. I want to set up somewhat of an agency that connects the dots between real life work and changes the way people actually get into work and the well, the the acceptable skill set that's viewable. Right. So my lifelong goal is to make sure that there's now a bridge between the child that leaves school. has no idea, goes on a path of, well, there's new stats coming that they reckon a high percentage of people in jail, neurodivergent, homelessness, jobless, in the army, all these things that are very extreme, right? From not being able to regulate your emotions, I want to intervene that, help them get the skills that they need through like on job apprenticeship. So for example, if somebody wanted to get into podcasting and you're the professional, we'd have a a scheme where we we get them to come work with you. They get they get paid, they still get the skill set, and then you can either take them on or we send them on with like real life experience. So I want to create a governing body and some sort of certificate system. I know that's just like a real small like tick box, but I want it to be so that you know kids can get this experience. And then end up, we can ch we could change the workplace and the way the workplace works. So we've actually got employment, we've got NAC NI contributions, we've got pensions for them, you know, things that we're terrified of losing to stop us making the leap. I th I think there's I think there's a way that this country would actually benefit from the way that works. And I think there's a bigger conversation to be held and sparked. If it's not me that does it, I want to spark the conversation. Because if you look back, I don't know whether you've had the same retrospective thought process, but I did nothing really of impact from sixteen to twenty five, right? It was a very hard time for me, very hard time. And I didn't gain honestly, I didn't gain even much skill. I d I actually had a lot of negative life impact in that time. And then all of a sudden it clicked. And I think I could save a lot of people a decade of pain and get them into something they really enjoy off the back of that school depression. you know, and not fitting in and out in that big wide world, just earning money, but doing something they're passionate about for life. I'd I'd love it if people did fifty years in something they fucking love. What what way to live. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's a it's a huge task. I think I may I'm oversimplifying it for the message, but there's gotta be a there's gotta be a council in this country, probably Bristol, they're the most forward thinking when it comes to arts, right? Get down there and just be like, right, I wanna change the way business and corporations take on people. We could be the the neurodivergent factory, just you know, churning lost people into, you know, phenomenal members of society. I think that's what we all want, really. Just to be accepted and seen, right? Fuck. So intense. Trevor Holland: Yeah man. Christ. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Sorry, I'm so intense. Trevor Holland: No, I love it. I could listen to that shit all day. No, that sounds so cool. No, I'm I'm I'm into it. Really into it. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And this is just the start, you know, the Simon Scrib started with a a a a one message, right? I want to help people. It could look like anything. The conversation opened up. I'm the same. I just I have this inherent need to give everything, even the shirt off my back. I just can't help it. And instead of making it a negative trait that constantly gets me into debt, right? Physical, mental, battery debt. Why don't I turn it into a business that actually runs, right? And and has a message. And it's it's hard to fall off the message when you just when you just care about it. You just give a shit, you know? And I'm just a I'm just a boy who's made some mistakes along the way. It's just I I think people deserve grace. I think people deserve, you know, a chance to reckon reconcile their mistakes, their emotions. And a lot of people that judge you are also the same people that are going through the same hardship. Trevor Holland: True. Yes. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Fucking mic drop, isn't it? Trevor Holland: Let's talk a little bit about ADHD then. So you're JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: you're thirty-five now, you were diagnosed with ADHD last October. so just a l a little bit about where that came how that came about getting the diagnosis and when when you started to to think that there might be a certain difference in you that that was that needed to be explored. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You said it best. Same input, different outcome. Expecting different results, right? I was working as a chef and my head chef, I really want to shout him out because I hated him at the time. His name was Arthur, and he was such a he could really see my potential. He could really see what he'd pull me aside and like, Why are you off sick all the time? And I just had to lie, I just lied to him. He was just sick, man. I just don't know what to tell you. I was burnt out. It's that same thing of. Being performative to fit in, to feel w feel worth, right? I was a phenomenal chef. I don't care what anybody says, right? I did at the time, I don't care. Now, when I look back at it, I went from one of the lowest, lowest of the lows, potwash, all the way up to, you know, seniorship, right? And I took on going from a sort of 30 cover a night restaurant to 600 and just hit the ground running. And they had senior level chefs when I was sort of at the mid-level come in and they'd asked me to help out in crisis. And I'd come in and just take charge and just smash it and was like, Yeah, I'm really passionate about cooking and the logistics of it and everything. And I sat down one evening having left work at you know, an hour after again just to make sure that my station was fucking pristine. Going round and checking that other people's weren't and just trying to be that big corporate like kiss arson and everything and was like fuck, something's gotta change, man. I don't feel right. And then I started to just look back. It just fell in my lap and was like, let me just Google something. and it came up with ADHD. This was during COVID. This was just like There was almost next to no research available like on the broad spectrum. There was just like published documents, people weren't really talking about it, even five, six years ago. And I researched it and was like, is this why I've got limerence? I'm a hopeless romantic. Is this why every girl I ever fancied is still in my fucking head? I'm like 30 and I still have these random, fleeting thoughts of like being a teen and just this, you know, this full sense of reality and just like Wait, do they not talk to me b now because I've just been too much? Like Fuck, have I said the wrong thing? Have I been my god, and then from there, mate, it's just been it's just been it's been a yeah, about eight seven or eight years of just re realising my health has suffered from inattentiveness, my parents, the arguments that we had All of a sudden it made sense. So bec I think becoming a parent myself was the catalyst of why do I want to throw this baby into a fucking chair because she's not stopped screaming? Why won't you listen to me? Why don't you understand me? And like She's six months old. She's screaming because she's got colic. Yeah? She needs the shit. She needs the shit. Like, what are you doing? Why why is this so why is there so much extra work? And I put my daughter down one day. And I went and punched a hole through my wall, right? I just lost it. I couldn't cope. All these emotions, and I absolutely just I rinsed my house and was like, fuck, my landlord is so nice as well. Like, what am I doing? Like. And again, it just it went from health problems, it just neglect. I think the words that I would use is neglect, right? I felt like a victim. I felt neglected. And then I realized that I was neglecting myself. And all of this it just became overwhelming. I couldn't I couldn't scratch that itch. I couldn't stop that thought process. I couldn't I couldn't do life anymore the way I I'd previously lived it. I had a bit of like a an ego death. I just couldn't go to work the same way and I broke my leg playing football. My whole team turned their back on me. I do know what I'm not gonna do it on your pod. I'm gonna fucking I'm gonna do a pod and name all of them pieces of shit, man. I I really I felt so passionately about the time. They all turned their back on me. My head chef decided to, you know, like you can't really come into work for a broken leg. Are you gonna be in later? It's like Mate, you saw the person who tackled me, who I've forgiven, but you saw the person who tackled me, fucked me up. My employer then decided that I wasn't suitable for my job as a chef. So they put me on security at night with no risk assessment, with a broken ACL, torn hamstring. They wanted to get rid of me. I was just dead weight and I just felt very worthless and was like, I've just I've got a child. You didn't pay me my fucking maternity paternity, sorry. What am I gonna do? What the fuck am I gonna do? And I started my art career and The ADHD A gave me the fucking backbone and just that blind you know that you the what what did you call it? Just that like that naivety of like everything will be fine. Blind optimism, Trevor Holland: Blind optimism, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: right? But I had suicidal empathy for myself. you're just different, you're just this, that, and the other. And I think that knowing that I couldn't do and my my whole mindset changed. Like I literally had that that two life thing. I thought I had two lives and then I realized I only had the one. Like, I I'll just push through. everything will fix. The debt will go away. It will it'll all change, you know, the the parking letters, the inattentiveness, it'll all go away. I promise, mate. Just work a bit harder, just do a bit more. And then I realized it weren't coming. And that was really sad. It was I was a really anxious time. It led me into a very depressive spiral. I felt suicidal. I'm lucky I didn't do anything about it. I'm grateful I didn't do anything about it. And now I'm at a place where I've been building now. I think about it, it's crazy. I've had another self-reflection of it's been about seven or eight years of constant graft, you know, trying to get better and better and better and realizing that I'm absolutely acceptable, even the way I was back then. You know, it's just there's such a big conversation. I'm sure you know that there's it there's never just like a one final conversation about it that's like. That sums it up. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's so personal. It's so deeply rooted in trauma, in guilt, from being a child, from people could have given us all the support we needed. The exact support still wouldn't change how I felt inside. Right? That's a Trevor Holland: Mm. Yeah, that's true. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: harsh reality of. I give these kids, like, mate, you're phenomenal at art. Like, you're absolutely sick. You're better than me. Like, but then what's coming next is the feeling of. But why are you doing anything about it? It's even I'm being judgmental, right? It's it's a common process of other people and validation. It's so hard to stay stoic and just, you know Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Every everything we've spoken about of giving yourself a break, there's there's a there's a timing to it. It's just do you know what you'll blink and your whole life will be over? And then what would you what would you look back at? We can't answer those questions, can we? You know, Trevor Holland: No, that's true. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: is the gold in in that? It is the gold in being naive? It it's such a hard conversation that I'm I'm passionate about awareness and just feeling, right? Feeling what it feels like. But then not projecting that to anybody else. You know, feelings aren't facts. Sometimes you gotta look at the facts. They're two conflicting things completely. That bloody pendulum again. It's like you should try and feel more as as ADHD. I think it's really helpful to get into your feelings as a man. If you feel too much, you go over the edge. You know, it it's such a such a nuanced conversation that I think having them Opens up so much more opportunity to to to feel better. I think at the end of Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: the day, if if you can focus on feeling better. answer a winner really. Right? I Trevor Holland: Yes, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: how how do I how do I summarise that without you know putting a finite on it? For you, what did when did you get diagnosed? Trevor Holland: with ADHD I was twenty eight, so that was in twenty eleven. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I can know, is there a dinosaur around? I'm joking. Trevor Holland: Ha ha ha. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: So 2011, and I'm sure that technology's come and awareness has come so much further since then, right? Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: What was the t did you have a similar thing of like w when you got that answer just, my god, that's what it's been? Trevor Holland: I I got that feeling when the the possibility of me having ADHD was first put to me by my psychiatrist. when it when it just entered the conversation, that's when I started looking it up. And that's when I started reading stuff online about people's experiences and their life stories. And I was like, Well shit. I am r I am JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: reading multiple accounts of my own life. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Of my life, yeah. Trevor Holland: And but but that was after years of exploring different possibilities. you know, i it it's a tail as old as time when you're an adult late diagnosed with a neuro neurodivergent condition of some description, is that you will inevitably initially be diagnosed with depression, general anxiety. I was misdiagnosed with bipolar affective disorder, and and given very powerful antipsychotic medication to counteract that, which did not sit with me very well. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Wow, that's that's horrible. Trevor Holland: there's l there l there were lots of different things explored until finally it was, you know, you might have ADHD. inattentive type mainly because of the fact JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Holland: that I was like use the word neglect, self neglect. It was it was JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: prevalent. and but because I was an introvert by nature, I didn't really like to upset the Apple cart. I was just quintessentially what you would describe as lazy or self sabotaging. So I was JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: always the very capable, should apply himself more guy rather than Will not sit still, guy. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Amen. That was me. The hyperactiveness is internal, right? It's not Trevor Holland: There it is. It's in your head. So I was sit still. I I I wouldn't be naughty. But I didn't get shit done. Yes. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You can't get shit done because your your battery is focused on self-approval and external approval. Constantly. I I have this flashback to being in school and obviously sitting next to the girl I fancied, being disruptive. you know, being incredible at French, right? Just took to it like a glove because it was patterns. I understood subjunctive clauses in French before I did English. I just My teacher was amazing. I just understood. And all of a sudden, life got a bit too much. There was just a period where the it wasn't as safe on the streets anymore. Knife crime was just like crazy. Parkour came in and I was obsessed, right? This was 2006, five, Trevor Holland: Right. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: whatever. Jump Britain came out. All I wanted to do was go outside and play. I was hyperactive and fit, but mostly internal and I remember sitting in French and I just glazed over and my teachers talking and honestly I just heard the I'm back in the room and the whole class was laughing and it was like I mean he was just doing the whole like wakey wakey man get up like you know and I zoom back to that all the time of that I remember the I could genuinely remember the conversation I was having with myself in my head of why Why can't I get further ahead in relationships? Like, this girl's just turned to me and said, It's so random, and just said, You've got such a gorgeous nose profile. You look really adult. And I'm like, anyone in today's society would be like, Come here, we're going dinner. Like, if anyone shows you any sign of approval, you could you could nurture something. In my head, I was going, Fuck, how do I get her to like me? How do I go out with her? She's she's always like. It's taking too long. It should be this by now. All these shoulda, woulda, cudda's. And because she said that, it just triggered this thought process. And I was like, fuck man, like I've got to put the pressure on. I've got to, I've got to get fitter, I've got to get funnier, I've got to get, you know, I've got to, I've got to woo her by like showing how good at football I am and like all this nonsense. And yet, it was it's been sat in front of me the whole time. And I look back and realized that opportunity had sat in front of me my whole life and I'd missed it, right? I'd been so focused on self approval and and all the negatives, like, but I'd be looking for the negatives. Like, what are you expected at your GTSCs? I'm gonna get a shit grade. Instead of going, there's a chance that I can raise the predicted up and work on it. I can do this, right? I just self sabotage and I was just like, I'm not gonna make it, it doesn't matter anyway. Fuck it, it won't affect me long term. I'll just go and bunk with the boys and smoke weed instead. And I searched for that like life. Dopamine and feeling of freedom. I searched for freedom, knowing that that wasn't the white, it was the black. Like that coping mechanism of freedom was definitely in that black for me. And it was just escapism. And I think that a lot of a lot of that turning point for me, going, you might have had ADHD, I could just drop the guilt and grief of my whole life of being an escape artist. Right? Escapism for you looked like food, right? I'm assuming that you latched on. Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah absolutely. Absolutely. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Yeah. mine is I'm a I'm a dope addict. Like when it comes from dopamine, actual weed, like I'm just anything that's related to that's that internal system of just like good feeling. like I said a lot I I make a joke about all the time, but like had a huge porn addiction for ages 'cause it's just dopamine. Instead of actually, you know, looking at real life and what's in front of you, I think that's the catalyst to all these problematic escapism roots, right? If you can separate yourself, it's very, it's very difficult. I'm sure you struggle now, but it might actually be the reason why you've beaten the the the food thing is that actually you can look at it and go, the information's in front of me. I am killing myself. I am totally aware I'm doing it. Now I don't have to do it anymore. It's not it's almost like a prison sentence has gone, right? Trevor Holland: Yeah. It's realizing that you actually do have a say in it. It's it's it's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Exactly. Trevor Holland: not a foregone conclusion. This is the path you're on at the moment. But JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You're in control. Trevor Holland: like I was saying at the beginning about once you've made a decision, you've made a decision. and it's too late to turn back even before the thing's been done. But but in this is in this situation it's almost like I'd high I had decided, I'd sealed my own fate. I had decided this is the way I'm gonna die. it's gonna take a lot longer and be a lot more expensive than other ways of doing it. but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. I may as well save the money, man. Fuck's sake. Yeah. Trevor Holland: but this is what's gonna happen. This is eventually gonna be what's gonna happen. I'm gonna eat myself to death, I'm gonna have a heart attack, I'm gonna have a stroke, something's gonna happen like that. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And the thing is as well, is it's gonna be so indignant and horrible and just for other people to I mean, you should always look after yourself and not not care what other people think to an extent. But also there is a level of pride when you take care of yourself and other people care about you and you can provide a self you know, self worth to them. You know, it's it's it's what it's natural, it's being part of a community, is it's what it's what all this is about, really. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's part of part of this life is to give back, isn't it? You know, and if If you're a constant drain on other people, it drains yourself worse. Especially with this, it doesn't take much to tip over the edge of guilt with ADHD. Just, you know, realizing that actually I was really quite horrible to one kid in school. Just because it was like funny and it it brought me dopamine. I'd love to like I'd love to reach out. But there's something stopping me. I'm just scared of the reality of, yeah, you were an absolute prick. You You might have ruined my fucking life at that time. And it's like I'm not prepared for that conversation yet. It's really, it's really tough to know that there are people out there that don't have this glowing invisib image of you. You Trevor Holland: Mm. Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: know. It's it's it's really tough, but you know, as as of recent, there's one of my best friends growing up and I've had a disagreement over something really silly. And I've I've reached out to to sort of make amends to to get a a better level of understanding. and understanding is something that I think you and I can deep dive on a on another episode because I've recently gone through a lot of knowledge on it. And my my friend and I were building a case against each other as to why each person was right in the scenario when in reality looking back at it both just treated the situation really, really poorly. It's led to not being able to go to one of my other best friends' because that person was there, you know, just out of like awkwardness. And I got really upset. I wasn't invited at the time and was like, wow, this is like one of my best friends. And then I had the reality of I've done something to cause this, right? It's me, I should own up to it. And if you can own up to your part in the story, the guilt just disappears. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I don't feel guilty for the way I acted, I acted the way I acted, for God's sake, it's just people make mistakes. I apologise the whole way through and if you can't accept that, that's something I have to accept, right? I have to accept this friendship might have had a finite point and it's not worth it for you anymore because that was the cherry on top. I don't also like, you know, I don't owe him... full explanation and he doesn't owe me one either. It's absolutely fine to not nitpick something to death to prove that you're right. You know, I got upset by something, by the way it was handled and I can accept that people are people and he also might be neurodivergent. It's a shame that we don't talk anymore. But I can also accept the fact that I might have tied someone out to a point where they actually just actively dislike me. You know, I'd like to rectify it. I think you should close all the loops, but look, there's real power in moving forward and accepting that everybody can love you and you can make mistakes that are irreversible. And they may look like nothing to you, but they are huge to someone else. I've reached out, I really wanna understand if that's the case, but it's not owed to me. And I think a lot of neurodivergent people have this victim mindset that everything is owed to them because they don't understand or they can't articulate their side of a story. It's like you might have felt you were owed help by other people and then you're envious towards them and you treat them differently because of that thought process. Someone like... It happens a lot in couples like I'm not saying this is the case but you might have then had envy for your wife and been like but you didn't help me and it's like well you didn't help yourself you know it's not other people's responsibility to read your fucking mind as well by the way like you know like my new favorite phrase is I'm not a mind reader and neither are you so I'm gonna try and articulate the best way I can but yeah I think I obviously cannot remember the initial point I was making, but I think that, you know, if you are neurodivergent, I'm going to do a little sort of message that if you are neurodivergent and you really struggle with a lot of that, a great way is to realise that you're not special in regards to what society thinks you are, right? You're not taxed on anybody. You you aren't owed anything by anyone apart from a pat on the back from yourself. Internalise first, do your self-awareness and... There's a lot of support out there, reach out. Once you get to a place where you're like comfortable with who you are, reach out. And if you're not comfortable with who you are, reach out. It's such a, there's such a like, I'm this type of neurodiversity and you're that one, you know, it's like, stop it, man. Like. Trevor Holland: Absolutely. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Everyone get along for a bit. Everyone kiss. Trevor Holland: That's what that's yes. Just have a little smooch and you'll be alright. Yes? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Everyone open mouth kiss in front of other people you'll be fine. It's so embarrassing that nothing else matters to see. Trevor Holland: Shit. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Ugh. Trevor Holland: Right. So no, that was that was fascinating. Thank you for that man. So JAYFROMTHEMANOR: No, I appreciate it, thank you. Trevor Holland: So an hour and a half in, let's do the format. So first off The question the questions that I've been asking people. And you know you you said a little bit that you might freestyling this a little bit, so I take that into c take that into account. But if you could if you could live in any fictional world from TV or film, what would you li where would you live and why? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I would live in the friends, cast and world. Trevor Holland: So in the friend's car, so you would be one of the friends? You'd JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I'd be the seventh friend, yeah. Trevor Holland: be the seventh friend. Okay, so why? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: That's all I want. I want to be seen. I want to be a friend to somebody. It's a feeling I can't knock and I think it's what drives me to connect people. I've always got room for new friends. I just love it. And I think the laughter, the pain, just the way they captured everybody's full journey, probably also knowing the reality of Chandler in real life and the addiction and... opening up about having an infatuation over Jennifer Aniston and just the purity of that show. I'd love to be a part of it. Trevor Holland: Yeah, it was a pr it's a it's an incredibly comforting world to sit in. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Comfort, isn't it? Trevor Holland: you know, I mean Christ I still can't believe sometimes that that show ended s over twenty years ago at this point. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I have this, yeah, it's so crazy. I have this thing, I never watched it during the time. I'm always late to the party because I'm so self-absorbed and not my own ass, right? You know, I would rather listen to Linkin Park and draw and I always have done. But the point is, is I remember my friend coming into school and he was so funny. His name was Ross and he came in and I talked to him and I must've just spat on him and he went, I want the news, not the weather. And it was obviously Phoebe that said that Trevor Holland: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: and... fucking hell I died laughing thinking that that's what he had said and he was like no mate it's French you should watch it and I only came to watch it 10 years later and was like I missed out man this is so good Trevor Holland: Yeah, it's lovely. It's a lovely show. It is. It and it's so co it's such good comfort viewing. So I can p perfectly understand you wanted to be part of that gang as well. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, just think just fitting in right. I just feel like there would have been a place for me. think I think they all I think there was a space for neurodivergence in there is what I'm getting at is that Joey Acting being as creative could never really knuckle down Chandler wanted to leave his job was really good at one specific skill set but just wanted to get his creative writing you know, just constantly met being a joker and you know, I think those two were like the the friendship that I've Obviously, Wiener touching the friendship Trevor Holland: Yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: that I've always wanted, you know? And yeah, that's my answer. Actually, I want a little neurodivergent remix. It's either that or Trailer Park Boys. I'd fucking love to, have you seen Trailer Park Boys? Trevor Holland: No, I haven't. I haven't. And I should. yes, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Okay, have you been told to watch it? Is that what the problem is? Trevor Holland: i well yeah, but also I I'm I'm fully aware of how good it is and how popular it is and I'm like I I'll get there JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, Trevor Holland: in my own sweet time and that's probably gonna be in about twenty years, but but JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Do it. Well, you'll remember this conversation as to why I want to be, well, I am Ricky. That's all you need to know. Just remember that I am Ricky in real life. Trevor Holland: I'll write it down. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: write it down, Jay is Ricky in real life. Honestly. Trevor Holland: So is Ricky I I R L. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, but friends, I'd love to live in the friends cast. Yeah. Trevor Holland: Good, good answer. And and finally, if if the reality was we could turn off your ADHD and and and just ha not have that be part of your life anymore, would would you do that? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: No. Trevor Holland: Okay. And why? JAYFROMTHEMANOR: To turn it off would be to turn me off and I don't ever want to have not existed. Right? I think everything that has come with me has worth. I'm worth something to someone and... version of me that exists I can see people's eyes light up that matter to me right I matter to to some people and to turn that off would risk not not having that and I laugh other people and that that say like if you know I wonder if ADHD meds will do that I'm scared of taking them and it's like yeah maybe I'm like but you'll still be yourself that's my ultimate fear is leaving this planet and having not made a mark. So I wouldn't turn it off. I can deal with this. Of course I can deal with this. I have dealt with it and I will deal with it. Right? I'm more than capable of dealing with an archetype. Trevor Holland: It's it's absolutely true, you know. It's JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Would you? Trevor Holland: Well I've said in the past that I'm not gonna answer that question straight away. Not not not yet, but what I will say is JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mm. Trevor Holland: I'm not sure that is a reality that could exist for me. It it's to JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mmm. Trevor Holland: to like you're alluding to, if you take away my autism and take away my ADHD, you're taking what's left if you take those things away. You JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Skin and bones. Trevor Holland: know, it it's so it's so interwoven JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: into every aspect of the way my mind works and the way I I I way I journey through the world that to try and and remove those things it JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Well you are all three of those things in one, you're a Neapolitan. Trevor Holland: Yeah, right. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: You're not just... Would you ask someone to remove their name from birth? Like their identity? Well maybe some people want a new one but in reality you are what you're given. It is what it is. I don't like that phrase at all because that's accepting fate is like you know finite but it is what it is. You are what you are. But you are also in charge. You can... change a lot. mean, stranger things have happened, right? People have reversed terminal illness. I'm talking their death's knocking on tomorrow's door and they have just fucking woken up and just something's changed. It's on record, right? There are people out there that can change. If I got rid of my neurodivergence, I think that drive would disappear. That willingness to survive. And it's why I've got my notice me tattoo, right? which is hilarious because it's not noticed because of the beard. It's such a... Notice me is... I have this inherent need to be noticed. The ADHD just wants to be like, just notice me. Like, I just want to feel comfortable. And then the other half is I so don't want to be noticed that like, I can put this on my neck and you won't even notice it. And I swear to God, I have to tell people about it. Trevor Holland: That's yeah. Yeah, I get that. I'm I'm I c I can I can never quite work out why it is, but I I crave being noticed in the sense that I want to impact. I wanna create an impact, I want to create an impression. But then at the same time, I don't want anyone to notice me. And and it's in and I no maybe, maybe. I JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Notice the real you. I think there's a difference, right? Notice... maybe. Trevor Holland: I like I love I love the power I have to fly under the radar. And I do have that power, but then also JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mmm. Mmm. Mmm-hmm. Trevor Holland: I I really want to be the centre of attention but then when I but then I I hate being the centre of attention, but I really want to be the centre of attention. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's weaponized ignorance for the neurodivergent. It's like, I know that I can fly under the radar. I know I can fit in and you weaponize it to your advantage, right? So at the same time, it's like, I also really don't want to be seen at my like most vulnerable. So I will weaponize the ADHD and be like, I just need time, I need space, just I'm neurodivergent. But I think it's not, I don't think it's harmful to others. I think it's harmful to self to not be quite open. But I use that with respect that I fucking do it. I'm not saying like, of course you do it. Trevor Holland: Yeah, yeah. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: But it's a really good thing to look out for and notice that weaponizing it doesn't necessarily mean that you're killing anybody with it. Trevor Holland: Mm. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: It's really, really interesting. Trevor Holland: It is. Yeah, thank you. Sorry, I I went, Whoa, my fucking head just disappeared. Completely left my body. You know. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Mate, I've it twice. In this chat, I've done it twice. But the thing is, you segued so well at that time. Like, I've rambled and then just gone. Trevor Holland: Ha ha. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: And then you'll look back, if you look back you'll see it and then you've just gone like, and then the question is, and I'm like, I'm back in the room. man. Trevor Holland: Yeah, so I mean a hundred percent we're gonna w you know, if you'll come back we'll do another episode at some point. 'Cause, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: We'll run it back, yeah. Trevor Holland: you know, there's I'm conscious of the of the episodes going on too long, but this could easily be one of those episodes that goes on for four hours and I'd be happy for it too. But JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah, yeah, we've a lot to talk about, I think. Trevor Holland: Yeah, I think we'll we'll definitely do it again. but in the meantime, my friend, thank you very much for taking the time this morning. we'll be in touch, absolutely, but but best of luck with the mana man. It it sounds fantastic and JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Thank you. Trevor Holland: I I really hope I really hope it it it it brings the it brings what you want it to bring. I really do. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Can I give one piece of wisdom to anybody that's made it this far? Trevor Holland: Yes, sir. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: I would like someone to DM me with a bit of homework. Go and listen to a band called Tesseract and a song called War of Being. If you want to really feel something with your neurodivergence and connect with music really well, I think there's a huge message in that song about the war between ourselves, you know, internally in yourself. So if anybody does that, I'll be very surprised and I'll give you a year's worth of membership at the manor if you actually do it. Get on it! Trevor Holland: Well, I'm probably gonna have to do that myself as well. Now that you said it. Well, I'm not gonna f I'm gonna say, Well, where's my prize, motherfucker? No, no. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Terms conditions doesn't apply for you, but anyways. Mate, you've got that anyway, it's all good. Do it, are you into your metal and stuff? Trevor Holland: I can be. Yeah. It's one it's one of the things that I wear. I I do like 'cause I do like metal in certain circumstances. JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Give it a listen, it's a 10, 11 minute song. It takes you on a massive journey and the lyrics that I'm sort of protruding to is tear the mask away, facing one another. It's really, the way it crescendos, it gives me shivers just thinking about it. It's just such a fantastic, like, it's empowering. Trevor Holland: Nice. I love it when music does that, man. Yeah, I'll check it I'll JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Yeah. Trevor Holland: check it out, I'll let you know. right, Jay. Thanks very much for joining us today. Good luck, my friend. We'll speak again soon, okay? buddy. Cheers, JAYFROMTHEMANOR: Thank you. Peace out my dudes. Trevor Holland: Thanks again, Jay from the Manor. I hope you all enjoyed that episode as much as I did. It was fantastic, wasn't it? now, please do follow Jay on Instagram at Jay from the Manor in Block Capitals. You can find out about what he's up to at the moment. Lots of really interesting insights on there, but also crucially you can find out more about the manor, which as we mentioned is his kind of community creativity hub that he's setting up in Bedford at the moment. Really exciting stuff. Please also follow me on Instagram at Shouty Brain. And if you want to get in contact with me or just keep up to date with anything that I'm up to, then best place to go is shoutybrain.com where you'll find links to all my various bits and pieces. In the meantime, I hope you all have a lovely week. Please do take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and be kind for fuck's sake. Love you.