Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / The Preoccupied Attachment Husband

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The Preoccupied Attachment Husband · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show. Today, we're going to be talking
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  about how preoccupied attachment manifests in men, and and it's
• 0:16
  you got to refer back to the original subscriber.
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  Only episode on attachment Styles, I link you guys to that
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  one in the description of this. So that discusses the etiology,
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  like how the attachment styles are originally created and your
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  family of origin. That is obviously very useful
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  information and give some more information.
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  All the attachment Styles, but the one that I'm going to be
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  zeroing in on today, is preoccupied attachment.
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  And specifically how it manifests in the married guys
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  that I usually see or men in general.
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  Okay. So before that though, please do
• 0:50
  subscribe, my most recent episode was about guys.
• 0:53
  You say that they only work to support their wives and they try
• 0:55
  to use this as a kind of a power play, and a guilt trip.
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  And how I say, this is just as much bullshit as in a prior
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  podcast where I Disgust when women try to tell men that
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  everything that the man does is for himself, not for the woman.
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  So it's not good when either gender does this.
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  And I discussed that in that podcast, as well as of course,
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  there's so many other subscriber ones that you can get.
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  So anyhow, how what is preoccupied attachment?
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  Obviously, I already did, pretty extensive overview of it, but it
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  is the one where you're anxious and you get jealous and you can
• 1:32
  be controlling because you are Definitionally preoccupied
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  overly concerned with the relationship, it occupies too
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  much of your brain space and you want to be too close.
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  So it's an it's one of the insecure attachment Styles as
• 1:49
  opposed to secure where you kind of feel confident and centered
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  and who you are in opposition to that preoccupied, attachment is
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  when you do not and you rely too much on the relationship for an
• 2:02
  identity and to you. Is as kind of a reassurance
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  Giver in that. You are viable and you are
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  worthwhile and you have value, you look to the relationship end
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  to your, you know, attachment figure, your partner to provide
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  you with that information on a very constant basis and
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  preoccupied people are often drawn drawn to avoid and
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  partners and I've done the podcast on avoidant wives that
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  you can refer back to. So these people are pretty
• 2:32
  unwilling to give a constant stream.
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  Perfection. Nobody would be like a secure
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  partner would not have ended up with a preoccupied attachment
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  guide because she would have been like, what is this shit?
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  Why is this guy all over me all the time?
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  I'm not doing anything wrong but yet he's like, kind of
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  suspicious controlling jealous and she would have got the hell
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  out of Dodge and not been attracted to the guy.
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  But the avoidant and the preoccupied of either gender of
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  any gender or drawn to each other because they are kind of
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  what the other. It's you know you've heard of
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  Formation bias. So a preoccupied attachment
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  person there they think that women are going to be difficult
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  and that love is going to be hard and that it's got to be a
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  challenge and that you gotta like, work really hard to get
• 3:17
  somebody to love you. Well, you know, then they go for
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  somebody avoidant and that makes sense.
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  And the avoidant person thinks that love is very smothering and
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  then yes, who makes that make sense and a preoccupied partner.
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  So people usually nowadays think that women are mostly
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  preoccupied attachment. And so women are clingy and they
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  want to be reassured all the time and that kind of thing.
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  And quite honestly goes better when the woman is the reassure
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  is the reassurance Seeker, because people do think this
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  anyway. So it goes more along the lines
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  of what people, you know. See.
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  And also it's it's better because men have a higher sex
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  drive. So, like, if a woman acts,
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  annoying and needy and clingy, it's like, oh well, you know,
• 4:03
  they're still attracted to To her anyway, whereas women
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  specifically in monogamy, do not have, you know, high sex drive.
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  So they are going to be more easily turned off by anything
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  and that certainly includes somebody who's reassurance
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  seeking and jealous and you know, constantly needs this, the
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  stream of reassurance. Like that's going to be a huge
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  turnoff and her sex drive within monogamy is not enough to
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  surmount that. So What did so as I was saying,
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  nowadays, people think that women are more preoccupied
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  attachment but in reality it's equal.
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  It just manifest a lot differently with guys.
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  So used to be like a controlling jealous guy, I mean shit.
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  Like look at any mafia movie like look at like any movie or
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  read any book. That's about men in a prize in a
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  previous generation, right at men.
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  Used to be the preoccupied attachment.
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  Men used to be super controlling and jealous and tell women
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  ridiculous. Shit, you can't go out, you
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  can't. Do this, you looked at that guy
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  too long. I mean, the guys that I work
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  with, in, like a highly educated demographic, they know that they
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  can't act like that. Like you, they know, they can
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  never tell the woman that, like, she can't go to girls night out
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  like that. She can't, you know, have
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  interests that she can't work, you know, things like that.
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  But that used to be common, you know, a guy who says not, it
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  makes me too, you know, how does it look to everybody when you
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  work and Guys, I like when you're home paying attention to
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  me in the family, so you can't have a job.
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  Like this used to be like, how preoccupied attachment guys
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  would act and within a different sort of framework where women
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  were treated more as property than that, you know, was just
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  how it went. You were partnered with an
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  asshole and that sucks. But, nowadays guys know that the
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  same attachment style. They know not to do that, they
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  cannot do crazy shit. If you've hit guy tracks, where
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  you are for guy put like, A tracker on your car or does
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  something like that every single person in the world will tell
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  you girl get out of that crazy ass relationship with that
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  controlling freak. But it did not used to be like
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  that. So most guys do not act like
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  that anymore, but instead the guys who remain having the
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  preoccupied attachment style will just be more controlling
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  and jealous and jealous in Insidious ways such as
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  denigrating, the woman's interests and hobbies
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  denigrating or friends then. Writing her job, not acting very
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  excited. When she talks about, things
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  that aren't him. Only acting exciting, when she
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  taught excited, when she talks about the relationship, only
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  giving love when she focuses on him in a way, that reassures him
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  for the moment not giving too much attention to the kids, over
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  him etcetera, Etc. So, it's much more the control
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  and the manipulation is a lot more Insidious and of course
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  we're talking about men here, but women do exactly the same
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  thing. They're preoccupied attachment.
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  These are the ones who go through the phone.
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  That think that the guy is cheating.
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  Every two seconds thinks he's looking at other women
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  constantly doesn't like when he does anything without her
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  constantly jealous of everything.
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  You're giving everybody too much attention.
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  You know, this is the same thing.
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  It's the pursuer distance or dynamic, but when guys do it
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  nowadays, especially they know not to be super aggressive.
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  So they're not going to say like you can't do anything but
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  they'll still. Act sulky and sad, and angry and
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  resentful, and they don't get all the attention.
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  So this Dynamic, of course, pushes the woman away even more.
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  And as I said, is a real buzzkill for, for the sex life,
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  which, you know, a woman that is avoidant attachment particularly
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  wants an independent guy, and this guy seems so dependent on
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  everything that she thinks and how she's feeling.
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  And if she's making eye contact, and if she's in love, With him
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  enough, etcetera, Etc. It's such a turn off.
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  The pressure of that is a turn off.
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  The neediness is turn off. The childishness is a turn-off.
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  So how do you work on this as a man?
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  Well, in reality, the way to work on this is to get other
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  things going in your life, that help you with your self-esteem,
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  because this is a self-esteem issue.
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  Putting too much emphasis on the relationship, to the exclusion
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  of everything else waiting like for your wife, to be the one to
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  tell you if you are, you know, viable as A male, this is, this
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  is a function of low self-esteem, which originated in
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  your upbringing. If you have more interest and
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  you fill up your life in ways that are valuable to you, the
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  stuff isn't going to matter. I mean, this is like, on the
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  first proponent of, you know, the biggest proponent of saying
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  that sex in marriage is important, but like, if a guy
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  has a lot going on and he's like a secure successful, man, does
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  it really matter if he got, laid, two times a week or one
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  time? I'm that week I mean it like
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  think about like like a person that's involved in a like a
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  project that's very fulfilling are these so worried about what
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  other people think about them. No.
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  It's people that have not very much going on that start to
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  perseverate on this, that do not find the job and career to be
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  fulfilling that have not really made fatherhood into an
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  experience that feels rewarding to them.
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  That do not have a friend group that do not have really a
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  purpose. And Life and so some guys try to
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  like you know, you know go online and go into the
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  manosphere and they and they try to do this but in a way that's
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  supposed to attract the woman that's like beyond the wrong
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  reason, you know, like if you decide to start going to the
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  gym, because you're really into going to the gym, and you're
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  going to transform your health, and you got all these goals,
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  that's cool. That's great, that's attractive,
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  and sure, but if you're going, because you think that, if you
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  get to a certain body shape, your Wife is going to start
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  touching your muscles. No I mean she could pick up on
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  that a mile away that's like even needier than how you were
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  to begin with. So the mission or the point
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  cannot be to make your wife, give you more reassurance, the
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  point of going to therapy of working on who you are.
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  As a man, your career, your role, as a parent, your health,
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  all of it. It needs to be purely because
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  you're like, oh my god, I've given so much.
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  Arch of my brain space to what my wife thinks about me.
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  Holy shit. You know honestly, I don't know
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  if I would find that that attractive.
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  If somebody did it to me, you know, and here's the thing too.
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  Is that guys in the situation and therapy, we really work on
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  like would you really be like would you have been attracted to
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  somebody who is different than your wife?
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  You know, like a woman that was all over you know, you wouldn't,
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  you know, otherwise you would have got One and more often than
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  not, these guys have had experiences.
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  Preoccupied attachment men have had experiences with women who
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  were more, you know, reassurance giving and sweet and loving and
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  they didn't like those women and they went for the woman that
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  seemed like a quote challenge, or somebody who really didn't
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  need them or whatever. And so expecting this woman to
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  then change into a different kind of woman, I did a whole
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  podcast about this. Don't blame your partner for
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  being the same exact person that you Needed to choose early in
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  life because of your low self-esteem.
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  So if you are whole and Mago was getting somebody, that is a
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  challenge then making them love you.
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  Well shed. Is it it, whose fault is it?
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  That I mean, obviously, you know, you were subconsciously,
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  tell your fault, obviously, I'm using that, you know, as a quick
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  word but it's not your fault, but you didn't know any better.
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  But you specifically went for a woman who even from the very
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  beginning, Had red flags that you were not finding her to be
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  very reassurance giving to put it mildly.
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  And now you're blaming her for being exactly who she always
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  was. Now, if a man grows to be more
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  securely attached, it within himself.
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  So if he grows to be more confident to say, you know what,
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  I'm not going to think about how many times a week I'm getting
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  late anymore. This shit is just boring.
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  Honestly, I've given 20 years to think about this and I'm going
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  to instead work on Are aspects of my life.
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  What is my legacy on this planet, Etc, frequently?
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  He does not ate. One of two things can happen
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  either. In fact, he does become more
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  attractive to the wife without trying because the wife is like,
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  look at mr. Independent, all of a sudden,
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  you know, like, wow. All right, cool.
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  He hasn't asked me in weeks if I love him.
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  Did I read the latest dr. Psych mom article when we're
• 13:00
  going to have sex the next time. Why do I hang out with this with
• 13:04
  my friend more than Than with him, whatever the case may be,
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  instead, he's just living his life.
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  Oh my God, it's so relaxing. And then with that relaxation,
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  and that lack of pressure, you know, she may come forward a
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  little bit in a different kind of away with more, you know,
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  calmness and respect because there's not so much pressure on
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  her all the time to be your entire ego like ego, I used in
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  the psychological way, like you're not an ego that your
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  self. Orbed.
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  Although this can be linked with being very self-absorbed but
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  like your whole ego strength, like the internal sense of your
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  identity, your wife does not have to provide an identity to
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  you because you're developing one yourself.
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  And the other thing that happens is that people grow more
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  confident. They're like, oh, I don't really
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  want to stay in this marriage anymore.
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  I don't really think it did much for me, beyond the constant
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  challenge of. Is she going to pay attention to
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  me today? You know, I see why I was drawn
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  to women like that. It's rooted in my early life and
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  she's really never going to be very loving and affirming and
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  while I may have been asking her for too much, I now realize that
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  there is a middle ground and she gives far too little and there
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  are other women that may for example have sex with me or say
• 14:23
  I love you to me or say you look nice today and particularly I
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  may be able to get those sort of women and recognize and
• 14:30
  appreciate them now because I am working on being my own It's
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  system and really kind of developing into an adult for the
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  first time and not somebody that is fully dependent on another
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  person for, for, ego gratification, and for
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  acknowledgement, and for even the recognition of being a lot.
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  If, you know. So, it always reminds me, you
• 14:54
  know, these guys that are very preoccupied attachment.
• 14:57
  If you ever saw the movie A, I remember a, i, When We Were
• 15:00
  Young, the robot boy and so the Robot Boys created the knees.
• 15:04
  Imprinted on a family because the family needs a baby.
• 15:08
  This is he not in the future, Steven Spielberg movie and I'm
• 15:13
  going to ruin it for you now. So I'm sure you might have seen
• 15:16
  it. But if not just I've really said
• 15:18
  the bulk of what matter so you can just skip ahead to the next
• 15:20
  one if you'd like. But if you don't mind the
• 15:22
  spoiler of this then he's this robot boy and he gets out stood
• 15:27
  by the real son who returns because like the sun was at a
• 15:30
  coma, you know how movies are and then all of a sudden the sun
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  is back but so is the Bad boy. But the robot boy has imprinted
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  on, especially the mother loves the mother very, very much and
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  but the new sun is back, the real biological son, who is a
• 15:44
  real piece of shit. And he frames the robot son, who
• 15:48
  looks like a regular boy and everything for potentially
• 15:52
  hurting him or like he makes him go do crazy shit at that, makes
• 15:55
  him seem threatening and basically, the family, the
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  mother specifically things, oh my God, this robot is actually a
• 16:02
  threat to our reliving. Sun.
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  So they abandoned the robot boy, in the forest and this was, I
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  was a highly sensitive young person.
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  I think I was a teenager. This was just the worst scene.
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  I was hysterical. Upset about them.
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  Abandoning the robot boy. But anyway, so he goes through
• 16:22
  hell and high water. The robot boy, he always loves
• 16:24
  the mother and he comes back and he made some the scientist
• 16:30
  something. Anyway, he's allowed to come
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  back into his life for On special day during which the
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  mother only pays attention to him and he can be in the life.
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  Nobody's there. They, I think they baked
• 16:45
  together like they may be making funny faces in the bathroom
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  mirror at some point I think she puts you know shampoo in his
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  hair like in a funny way you know like the kind of stuff in a
• 16:54
  montage from I think the 90s this was but anyway it's this
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  one special day where he gets all of her attention And I swear
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  this is what many preoccupied men want, you know, but but the
• 17:11
  wife is just part of the shrapnel, you know, she's just a
• 17:14
  shrapnel. She just hit by the shrapnel
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  rather of this, you know, she is just a bystander in this getting
• 17:21
  hurt because the guy really wants to go back to his
• 17:24
  childhood and get one perfect day, where he is, given the
• 17:28
  attention, the full attention of a parent and he never got it.
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  And now the He's has to pay the price and not to say that she
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  can't be a real bitch because I should many situation she can
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  just as when a woman is preoccupied attachment, you
• 17:45
  know, a guy could be a real emotionally avoidant, cold
• 17:49
  asshole. But the problem is, is that no
• 17:53
  matter how much attention this woman gives the, who is usually
• 17:57
  avoidant and who definitionally cannot really give that much
• 18:03
  deep intimate attention. So no matter how much she tries,
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  she still cannot solve the wound of the childhood where it's
• 18:11
  like, the guys always trying to go back and get the one special
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  day with the parents, specifically often, the mother
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  and never got it. Her attention was always
• 18:20
  elsewhere, she had two issues whether their mental, emotional,
• 18:24
  stress, whatever. And so then he gets like Prime
• 18:27
  to like feel like women are always kind of not fully,
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  they're not fully giving their all not fully giving him what he
• 18:34
  So direly needs and what he incorrectly assumes he could
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  ever get filled up by because he can't, unless he recognizes
• 18:43
  what's going on. There is no amount because I see
• 18:45
  this happen all the time, the preoccupied attachment guy goes
• 18:48
  on a vacation with his avoidant wife and there's no kids.
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  So for a golden weekend she's at his disposal still always she
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  doesn't give enough sex, she doesn't give enough attention,
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  fully fully fully but even he knows this is a Halcyon moment,
• 19:04
  you know. No, and then he gets obsessed
• 19:07
  with recreating it. Constantly at home with the kids
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  around with the kids, sleeping in the bed with her back at work
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  and then she says correctly. Nothing is ever enough because
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  without deep introspection and healing and growth at in on his
• 19:23
  part about himself and why he's this way she is correct nothing
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  ever. Really will be enough and this
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  is irrespective again of the gender of the preoccupied
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  attachment partner. Nothing really is enough until
• 19:36
  they work on themselves and healing themselves and
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  understanding why they had these deficits and why they have this
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  fantasy that there is this completely cleansing,
• 19:48
  transformative, love that can erase all of their deep
• 19:52
  insecurities, which nothing exists.
• 19:53
  Like that. That's stuff that you have to do
• 19:56
  yourself. There can be partners who are
• 19:57
  more compatible, but you're not going to be available and able
• 20:01
  to get with them unless you are. Yourself much more confident,
• 20:07
  strong and calm. All right, hopefully, this was
• 20:10
  very helpful to you guys and I will talk to everybody soon.
• 20:13
  Please do subscribe.