Latest / Sharp Strategies Sweet Success / #60 - Building a Legal Marketing Strategy with Zarina Hernandez

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#60 - Building a Legal Marketing Strategy with Zarina Hernandez · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

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  SPEAKER_01: The other thing we've done is,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  I try to make sure that I get pictures of me going out to all
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  these events because
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  SPEAKER_01: I am out there a lot,
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  but nobody knows if they're not there and they're just looking
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  at my social media.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I try to make sure that people see I'm out in the community.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sherp Strategies Sweet Success.
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  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and welcome.
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  This is Sherp Strategies Sweet Success,
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  and I'm your host,
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  Tiffany Swedensky.
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  SPEAKER_00: And today we are talking to Serena Hernandez.
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  SPEAKER_00: She is a criminal defense attorney in Orlando, Florida.
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  SPEAKER_00: I almost called you a personal injury attorney, and I'm sorry for that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And she actually came to the Sharp marketing seminar back in June.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was actually really great to have her there in the room.
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  SPEAKER_00: She was the only attorney.
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  And so it was kind of fun to get her perspective on some of the
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  people that we were
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  SPEAKER_00: talking about.
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  SPEAKER_00: Cause in that seminar,
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  we were talking about handling attorneys and dealing with our
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  bosses and all that
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  SPEAKER_00: fun stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: But Serena is working on building the marketing of her firm.
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  I've talked to her a few times over the last like couple months
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  and her and her
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  SPEAKER_00: team are really working hard to spin up a bunch of cool stuff.
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  Um,
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  so I'll turn it over to her to finish out her introduction and
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  to get us started today.
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  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm Zarina Hernandez,
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  SPEAKER_01: like Tiffany said,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I practice criminal defense in the central Florida area.
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  SPEAKER_01: So near Orlando,
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  SPEAKER_01: Florida,
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  SPEAKER_01: that encompasses Seminole County,
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  SPEAKER_01: Orange County,
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  SPEAKER_01: Osceola County,
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  SPEAKER_01: and Orange County,
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  SPEAKER_01: Florida.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I go to Lake County.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I've actually had a few cases in DeLand,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is Volusia County,
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  SPEAKER_01: but DeLand's a little closer than like Daytona Beach,
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  SPEAKER_01: which is in Volusia County.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's my area.
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  SPEAKER_00: Well,
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  I've only been to Florida a handful of times and my impression
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  is hot and humid,
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  SPEAKER_00: but it's really competitive down there.
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  There are a ton of attorneys in Florida and I know like offhand
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  like three or four
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  SPEAKER_00: down there in Orlando.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you're in a really competitive space.
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  SPEAKER_01: It is very competitive here.
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  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of personal injury attorneys,
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  SPEAKER_01: a lot of criminal defense attorneys,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I'm involved in the legal community.
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  I belong to a lot of voluntary bars,
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  and we kind of all know each other,
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  and it's all good.
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  SPEAKER_01: We all get along.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  that's nice when a competition doesn't really feel like
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  competition because we are
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  SPEAKER_00: competing against each other.
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  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
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  SPEAKER_00: like it's a small universe,
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  SPEAKER_00: like in legal in general or legal marketing,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  you end up talking to the same people and it just behooves you
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  to play nice with
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  SPEAKER_00: others.
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  SPEAKER_00: So.
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, go ahead.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
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  SPEAKER_00: Didn't mean to.
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  SPEAKER_01: No, I was just agreeing with you.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
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  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's we should all get along.
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  SPEAKER_01: We might be working on opposite sides of a case,
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  SPEAKER_01: but we still have work to do technically together.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's better for the client.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what are you guys working on right now in your firm?
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  SPEAKER_00: Because you're,
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  SPEAKER_00: you're well,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I hope,
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  SPEAKER_00: I hope this isn't insulting,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you're starting small and you're growing right now.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what are you guys doing to kind of gear up for that growth?
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  So I guess I should give a little bit of background about how I
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  started the firm.
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  SPEAKER_01: I started my firm in 2021 and I did absolutely no marketing at all.
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  And I guess I thought maybe if I just hid in my office and my
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  friends would just
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  SPEAKER_01: send me cases,
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  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I was thinking.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I
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  SPEAKER_01: I started picking up appointed cases from the courts.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was appointed criminal cases,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I did that for a long time,
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  SPEAKER_01: but I was doing absolutely nothing to get private cases.
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  SPEAKER_01: So about a year and a half ago,
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  I decided to really push for getting more private cases and
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  trying to learn what do
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  I need to do to have awareness of my firm so I could get those
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  cases coming in.
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  SPEAKER_01: And of course, everybody said social media.
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  And I didn't have a lot of resources,
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  and that's one of the least expensive options you have.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I set up my social media accounts for the law firm,
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  SPEAKER_01: and I tried posting on my own with terrible lighting,
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  SPEAKER_01: nothing really to say,
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  SPEAKER_01: and...
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not very good at social media in my personal life.
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  So eventually I did end up hiring somebody and they've been
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  helping me out.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we're very active on Meta.
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  SPEAKER_01: So Facebook and Instagram.
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  And I wanted us to start there so we can get kind of like a
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  steady rhythm going of posting.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then we can move on to other platforms.
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  SPEAKER_01: So we're about to start the TikTok campaign.
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  SPEAKER_01: I really need to work on my LinkedIn for sure and my YouTube channel.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're working on right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the newsletter.
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  SPEAKER_01: That too.
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  SPEAKER_00: Uh,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: social media is so tricky and I'll,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'll even admit to being right after I graduated college kind of,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I,
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  SPEAKER_00: I graduated with a marketing degree,
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  but even back then I kind of felt like social media marketing
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  wasn't a real job.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't think businesses,
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  particularly small businesses really started taking it
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  seriously until recently.
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  SPEAKER_00: Cause social media marketing,
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  SPEAKER_00: I guess was the domain of like big businesses,
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  SPEAKER_00: Coca-Cola,
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  SPEAKER_00: Wendy's,
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  SPEAKER_00: Wendy's has a great TikTok account.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's still going.
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  But you couldn't really see small businesses looked at it and
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  either thought like
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  that wasn't real work and I wouldn't do anything for them or
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  they looked at it and
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  SPEAKER_00: just thought,
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  SPEAKER_00: well,
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  SPEAKER_00: maybe just total waste of time.
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  But now people are starting to take it seriously and it's hard
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  for and I'm actually
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  SPEAKER_00: like you,
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  SPEAKER_00: like I used Facebook for a little while,
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  SPEAKER_00: like after college and then gave up on it because like ultimately,
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  SPEAKER_00: like social media is kind of a toxic place if you read the comments.
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  But if you learn how to make the content that gets people to
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  engage with it,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's really useful,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: and it's a really useful tool.
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  SPEAKER_00: So what have you started making for social media so far?
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  So I've made some,
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  I guess,
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  I can't think of what they're called right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when you just like explain stuff to people.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I did a series for DUIs.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that was posted a couple of times a week until those ran out.
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  And the cool thing about what I've been thinking of posting is
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  because I am I serve
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  SPEAKER_01: the Spanish speaking community.
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  SPEAKER_01: And
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  My Spanish speaking friends are like,
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  where are your Spanish language videos?
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  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you're right.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of interesting.
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  Now I have to like double up or figure out is there AI out
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  there that will
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  SPEAKER_01: translate my videos for me?
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
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  SPEAKER_01: But for right now, I don't even think I would want to do that.
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  SPEAKER_01: It just AI is useful.
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  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I don't want to, I don't want AI to speak for me.
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  So I definitely feel like I have to rerecord videos in Spanish
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  to post those.
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  SPEAKER_01: The other thing we've done is,
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  SPEAKER_01: well,
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  I try to make sure that I get pictures of me going out to all
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  these events because
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  SPEAKER_01: I am out there a lot,
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  but nobody knows if they're not there and they're just looking
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  at my social media.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I try to make sure that
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  SPEAKER_01: People see I'm out in the community.
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  SPEAKER_01: I try to take videos as I'm walking into court,
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  SPEAKER_01: into the courthouse,
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  SPEAKER_01: or if I'm at a networking event or whatever.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to catch some pictures, whatever.
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  SPEAKER_01: And
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  SPEAKER_01: The other thing we've been doing as far as what do you call it,
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  SPEAKER_01: Tiffany,
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  SPEAKER_01: like the teaching the like the whoever's looking at my social media,
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  SPEAKER_01: teaching them about what I do,
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  SPEAKER_01: like those DUI videos,
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  SPEAKER_01: what would you call it?
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  SPEAKER_01: FAQs typically.
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  OK,
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  so we post we make like still just little like posters,
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  whatever,
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  flyers,
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  whatever.
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  I don't know what they're called,
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  but post with just little bits of tips and stuff.
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  SPEAKER_01: And we post those, too.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we've been working on.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking also of doing a series like,
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  SPEAKER_01: so the person who's doing my social media,
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  SPEAKER_01: she's been tracking what kind of posts do well.
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  And apparently everybody loves it when I'm on camera,
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  which I'm like,
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  yay.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so thinking of doing like a end of the week series or something like,
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  SPEAKER_01: little snippets of my week.
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  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it might be like working late or, okay, it's Friday.
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  SPEAKER_01: Let me try to neaten up my desk a little bit.
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  SPEAKER_01: So when I come in the next day, it's not such a mess.
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  Or maybe,
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  oh,
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  this is what I'm wearing to court,
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  you know,
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  and I'll throw something like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So just to make it a little fun, not so serious all the time.
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  I'm not really a meme person,
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  like trending audios and music and stuff like that.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're working on.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: that's something that I need to look at again as well,
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  because it's so hard to keep up with the trends of social media
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  without being like
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  SPEAKER_00: totally in it.
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  SPEAKER_00: And like when you're a small business owner, like I ain't got the time.
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  I don't think you have the time either to just like spend like
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  half an hour or an
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  SPEAKER_00: hour on TikTok each day just to see what's popping.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it is so hard when you're not kind of inclined.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm not the type to go out and take a bunch of pictures.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I actually have to like,
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  SPEAKER_00: literally,
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  SPEAKER_00: if I go out with the family,
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  I have to remember to take pictures because I want to be like
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  snooty and be like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm living in the moment.
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  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it's just, that's never been like my, my deal.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just not that picture taker.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so,
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  SPEAKER_00: but when you're,
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  SPEAKER_00: uh,
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  SPEAKER_00: own a small business,
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  SPEAKER_00: you own a law firm and you ha people want that content.
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  SPEAKER_00: People want you, they like faces, they like to see people.
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  SPEAKER_00: Um,
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  SPEAKER_00: and so you kind of have to become your own like production crew and like,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: I,
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  I have a new camera and I'm taking it with me to an event and
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  I'm planning on.
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  SPEAKER_00: recording content of myself at the event.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds so silly to me, like it feels like a silly thing to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: But then you have stuff to post on LinkedIn,
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  you have stuff to post on Facebook or Instagram that people
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  really seem to like.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know it for me,
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  SPEAKER_00: sometimes it's weird to be that self centered where it's like,
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  SPEAKER_00: literally,
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm bringing a camera to take pictures of myself.
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  SPEAKER_00: But that's, that's what you have to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of the paradox of
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  SPEAKER_00: owning a small business and trying to do the thing that you love to do,
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  SPEAKER_00: but also being like a media person.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting.
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  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
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  SPEAKER_01: You call it a media person.
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  SPEAKER_01: I've never even considered it.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: Another level of like, what am I being, having to worry about now?
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  SPEAKER_01: So I agree with you.
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  SPEAKER_01: I,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's been really difficult to create content when I'm at things,
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  SPEAKER_01: at events,
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  SPEAKER_01: because I forget,
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  SPEAKER_01: like I went to something last night and I,
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  SPEAKER_01: I was prepared.
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  SPEAKER_01: I had my camera and
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  SPEAKER_01: I had my little like I had a little card I had to bring with me.
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  And I asked the person who was checking me in,
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  like,
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  where should I take this?
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  SPEAKER_01: How should I use this?
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  SPEAKER_01: Because it's the county chamber.
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  SPEAKER_01: It was a county chamber event.
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  So they have this like a thing that they do where you just
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  bring a card and say,
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm here visiting another business that's a member of the chamber.
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  SPEAKER_01: And so I brought my little card and I was ready.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then I started mingling and completely forgot about it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I was in my car on my way home.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, man.
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  SPEAKER_01: I didn't do anything I was supposed to do.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like the aim that I set out for, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the aims, because I went out to meet new people, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: And tell them what I do.
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  SPEAKER_01: But I also wanted to commemorate that or like capture that.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I just didn't capture it.
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  SPEAKER_01: I'm just not used to doing it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So it really...
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  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be so, like, aware and remember.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that also kind of makes it awkward in a way.
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  SPEAKER_01: Because now you're just thinking about it.
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  SPEAKER_01: What can I capture?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: What can I capture?
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  SPEAKER_01: You know?
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  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I thought about it.
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  SPEAKER_01: For a little bit there, I had an office manager.
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  SPEAKER_01: I love her so much.
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  SPEAKER_01: She's not with me anymore.
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  SPEAKER_01: But she used to come to events for me.
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  SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
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  SPEAKER_01: That's all she did.
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  SPEAKER_01: She would help me by, hey, can we get a picture?
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  SPEAKER_01: Or, hey, take a picture here.
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  SPEAKER_01: And then she would get that to the social media person.
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  SPEAKER_01: So...
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  SPEAKER_01: That was working out really well because I would never remember.
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  SPEAKER_00: See,
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  that's why I like to recommend having an in-house marketer
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  because it's not just
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  SPEAKER_00: business owners.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's everyone who's maybe not accustomed to posting on social media.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you just don't think that way, you just don't think that way.
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  SPEAKER_00: But like somebody who's
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  SPEAKER_00: A little more involved in social media is definitely able to be there,
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  SPEAKER_00: follow you around,
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  SPEAKER_00: take some pictures.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget when one of my clients I was in a meeting with them,
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  SPEAKER_00: like our normal marketing meeting.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're like,
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  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  I gave a big speech at this local theater about owning a
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  business last week.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I was like.
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  SPEAKER_00: did you get video?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, shoot, no.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was so devastated because I was like,
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  SPEAKER_00: I could have used that for so many things.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like, just bring a camera with you next time.
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  SPEAKER_00: I was so frustrated.
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  And,
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  you know,
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  but that kind of footage is,
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  and that kind of content is just gold.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's gold for social media.
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  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's
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  That's,
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  what's hard about marketing in general is that you have to make
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  content.
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  It's not just waiting for something to happen in marketing that
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  you can report on.
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  SPEAKER_00: You have to create these events and create these photo opportunities.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I just think people outside looking in,
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  SPEAKER_00: they,
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  SPEAKER_00: I think most people,
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  SPEAKER_00: when they see like an ad,
• 13:27
  just completely underestimate how much thought went into
• 13:30
  creating an ad or creating
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: that marketing or creating that image.
• 13:34
  and it's a production it's always like a big big production i
• 13:39
  remember when i first
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: started making videos like on my own
• 13:44
  I think I filmed for three or four hours and I got five minutes
• 13:48
  of footage,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: like usable,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: usable footage.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was terrible.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to film the FAQ stuff.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I used it because you know what?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be perfect.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: It just has to get done and you can edit stuff.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the mindset I try to keep.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's how I think about it.
• 14:08
  creating this content because if I'm trying to be a
• 14:10
  perfectionist and look like the
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: other people who've been doing social media for years,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: like I'm not like them.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an attorney.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have, I'm knowledgeable in that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very experienced in that.
• 14:21
  And I can share that in the way that I am,
• 14:23
  you know,
• 14:24
  and that's just how I think about it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise I would never do it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would never do it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be stuck in perfectionism forever.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: the best way,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: particularly with video,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: because like my,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: how I've used video for my business has gradually increased,
• 14:39
  but it started with me trying to film a TikTok video or trying
• 14:42
  to do this or trying
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: to do that.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And my first attempt sucked and I hated them.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I bought things I didn't need.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't buy things that I needed until later, like a camera.
• 14:54
  And like I have a green screen back there that I've really
• 14:58
  actually only used once
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: and just because I didn't even need it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to get used to seeing yourself on camera.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have to lighting, have to figure that out.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: That took me a while in here.
• 15:09
  and just all this stuff to go into making a video that you like
• 15:13
  and that you enjoy making.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: But once you figure it out,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: like once you crack the code and you got your lighting set up,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know how you're going to record,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: you've done a few of these,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: like it gets so much easier.
• 15:25
  And videos such it's YouTube is just huge and particularly with
• 15:31
  you for criminal defense.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people casually are interested in criminal defense.
• 15:37
  And so you'll get a lot of viewers who are just looking for
• 15:40
  more information,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: though they themselves haven't been accused of a crime.
• 15:44
  And that's what's kind of nice about criminals,
• 15:46
  as you already have a lot of interested viewers.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you get that little boost.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are viewing your YouTube videos.
• 15:56
  and so youtube sees that and shows it to more people so i feel
• 15:59
  like criminal
• 16:00
  defense attorneys have it easier though i'm sure a lot of them
• 16:03
  will disagree with
• 16:03
  me it's i've seen a lot of criminal defense attorney youtube
• 16:08
  videos and they're
• 16:09
  always so fun and peppy right so they're entertaining and i'm
• 16:14
  not i don't think i
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: come across as fun and peppy on camera so it's just
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, Tiffany, I did not know.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was smiling.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember taking footage and they were like, smile.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but I am.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, they're like, no, no, no, you're not.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can feel these muscles.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing the up thing.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're smiling.
• 16:35
  And so it's something that I really have to be mindful of when
• 16:39
  I'm recording.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be like, okay, now smile.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: so YouTube was really,
• 16:46
  really helpful for me in learning like how to light something
• 16:50
  like you don't have
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: to have a giant set of lights or anything.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right now I'm simply using a clip on light on my laptop, you know, and
• 16:59
  think i'm well lit i mean so um that's just really and i just i
• 17:04
  don't know i guess
• 17:05
  to summarize everything i don't know if i'll ever look super
• 17:08
  polished on social
• 17:10
  media and i don't think it matters across all platforms either
• 17:14
  and but i'm okay
• 17:15
  with that i'm in a good place yeah i'm gonna be the best i can
• 17:19
  with what i got okay
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm being theoretical here,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: but I think reels like Instagram reels,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: TikTok short videos.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And since so many people started making videos,
• 17:32
  I think like we've just kind of grown accustomed to like not
• 17:36
  just seeing attractive
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: people on screens.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 17:40
  I really like kind of scrolling through TikTok sometimes
• 17:42
  because not everyone on
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: there is polished,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: but sometimes like they have a huge following and they're just like an,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: an average person,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: but people connect with that.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're approachable.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not to say you are beautiful, but just being average is fine on camera.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: for the most part,
• 18:00
  like particularly with criminal defense attorneys or attorneys
• 18:03
  in general,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: like they're,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: they're not looking for Margot Robbie,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: who's my go-to of like,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: who looks absolutely stunning on camera or somebody.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: about the smiling on camera.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I've probably said this before,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: maybe my listeners have heard,
• 18:17
  but that was the toughest part of getting my clients started
• 18:21
  with video because
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: their delivery would just be like,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: hi,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: my name is blah,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: because they're used to being serious.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a it's I learned this from theater people that I know,
• 18:32
  but like your facial expressions when you're so close to the
• 18:36
  when you're on camera
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: have to be exaggerated.
• 18:39
  And so like you wouldn't sit there and smile at somebody in a
• 18:41
  meeting because you
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: look like a lunatic.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: But for video,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: close and personal on a screen like this,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: like in somebody's face,
• 18:49
  it's actually you have to kind of exaggerate your features and
• 18:52
  like put on a bigger
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: smile than you would naturally and
• 18:55
  that was something i had to learn too and help my attorneys
• 18:57
  learn i i tell them all
• 18:59
  like just be happy for the camera you have to be really happy
• 19:02
  for that camera um so
• 19:05
  you mentioned that you guys were doing a newsletter is it an
• 19:08
  email newsletter still
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: are you guys expanding into print yet
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So first of all,
• 19:14
  thank you so much for having done that seminar and having this
• 19:19
  like mastermind
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: group because we get ideas from you.
• 19:22
  And we're doing both an email newsletter and I'm thinking of
• 19:27
  doing a print
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: newsletter,
• 19:28
  kind of like make it cutesy like a little newspaper with a
• 19:31
  couple of things on
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: there.
• 19:32
  And so we haven't started as far as I haven't started writing
• 19:38
  anything yet.
• 19:39
  i think coming up with ideas is is hard like what do you guys
• 19:43
  want to talk about
• 19:45
  and so what i've been doing is reading other law firm attorney
• 19:49
  like law firm
• 19:50
  newsletters and just trying to learn a little bit about what
• 19:55
  are they actually
• 19:55
  saying there's oh my gosh you know who it is they write they'll
• 19:59
  they are their pi
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: firm they're part of the group and
• 20:03
  They have a really great newsletter where maybe they'll mention
• 20:06
  something that's
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: popular on social media and then tie it into like PI stuff.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't Grace, was it?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're in Virginia or D.C.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: or something like that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're in D.C.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're thinking Donahoe Kearney.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I was going to say Kehoe, but their newsletter is fun.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking about, okay, what topics do I need to write about?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you can really plan that ahead, right?
• 20:31
  So if you send maybe two newsletters a month,
• 20:34
  that's 26 things you just have to write about.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you can plan some of those.
• 20:38
  Like if it's a holiday,
• 20:40
  how can you tie in this holiday to what you do,
• 20:43
  right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's just one way.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just be creative, I guess.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's just me because I'm not really...
• 20:50
  I don't want to say I'm not in the creative field because when
• 20:53
  I'm writing for
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: work,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm dealing in facts and law,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm writing persuasively, not creatively.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm still having to be creative because to be persuasive,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: you have to kind of get the other person to think.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Think about your side of whatever it is you're talking about.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be creative in that way.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's going to capture their attention?
• 21:13
  How are you going to say this in a way that's going to make
• 21:15
  them agree with you?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's being creative, I guess.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of went on a tangent.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, that's fine.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, because I got me thinking.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So for for marketing copy and being persuasive and marketing copy,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: you have to tap into some pretty strong emotions.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I, I'm not going to speak to the kind of writing you attorneys do.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Cause frankly,
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that much about it,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: but I think like for me,
• 21:40
  that seems to be the big difference is like when you're writing
• 21:44
  persuasively for
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: like a legal argument,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: it's more technical,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: but when we're doing it for marketing,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's more emotional.
• 21:52
  And that to me is why I feel like a lot of attorneys look at
• 21:55
  marketing and see it
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: as like manipulative because
• 21:59
  We're marketing is kind of playing a different game when we're
• 22:01
  trying to be persuasive.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to be persuasive by almost gut punching people.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not something that you do,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think when you're writing briefs,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: maybe more.
• 22:12
  I know you guys kind of do that in court when you're delivering
• 22:14
  arguments,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I better stop talking or I'll start offending attorneys.
• 22:18
  I started to get nervous when I started,
• 22:21
  I was like,
• 22:21
  I actually don't know what you guys do.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just, I know how to get the cases kind of, yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm trying to remember who said this quote.
• 22:29
  I feel like somebody famous said this at some point and I just
• 22:32
  can't remember who said it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to get,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to get ideas,
• 22:37
  like if you want to inspire yourself to write and you want to
• 22:39
  give yourself ideas
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: to write,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: what you do is you go out and read somebody's stuff who's doing it badly.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm pretty sure a famous author said this,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: that if they were ever stuck,
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: they would pick up like a trashy romance novel and start reading it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then they would just immediately kind of start.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: getting mad at what they're reading,
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: getting frustrated,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: and they would go back to their own works.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can do better.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I can do better.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then they do.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I always found that kind of an interesting way of getting unstuck.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Cause if I was trying to write LinkedIn posts and don't know what to say,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go to LinkedIn and start scrolling and I'll see something.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, that's a good idea that I can use.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or, oh, that's an opinion I disagree with.
• 23:16
  And it's just reading other people's stuff for me is an
• 23:20
  excellent way of getting
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: ideas and inspiring yourself.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a great strategy.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And there was something that happened recently.
• 23:29
  I had a consultation with a potential new client and he hired
• 23:35
  this giant criminal
• 23:37
  defense law firm in the state and they literally didn't show up
• 23:40
  for him in court.
• 23:41
  And they didn't communicate with him about what was going on
• 23:44
  and he couldn't get a hold of them.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that just made me so angry.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm going to make this into content.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I sometimes get inspired by...
• 23:54
  Actual situations that I encounter and I want to teach people
• 23:59
  about like how to
• 23:59
  avoid getting into these situations basically and it's just a
• 24:05
  matter of just
• 24:05
  sitting down and doing it because you just write a first draft
• 24:09
  throw it out there
• 24:09
  doesn't have to again the newsletter doesn't have to be perfect
• 24:12
  it just has to get
• 24:13
  done and I just need to throw that stuff out there and into my
• 24:18
  little newsletter.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, we haven't brought up AI yet.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I usually ultimately do once a podcast,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: that's what's so useful about ChatGPT because before ChatGPT,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:31
  the big writing tip is just to create a first draft and not be
• 24:35
  judgmental of it.
• 24:36
  Just put your ideas to paper and write,
• 24:39
  and then you can go back and edit.
• 24:41
  And it was just a way of like unblocking yourself to get your,
• 24:44
  get yourself past that kind of
• 24:47
  procrastination,
• 24:48
  writer's block stage where you're just staring at a blank
• 24:50
  screen.
• 24:51
  But you know,
• 24:51
  with ChatGPT,
• 24:52
  ChatGPT just like spits out that first draft no problem.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And where people screw up is just using that first draft as is,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: but that's,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's saving you a step,
• 25:02
  but there's still more steps after it where you have to put
• 25:05
  your own spin on it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But just writing, creating content, planning in general.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's important just to put your ideas to paper and get those,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: just those first ideas out because you can refine them later.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can update your content later.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: You could do this video.
• 25:20
  You could write this video and if you like it,
• 25:23
  great,
• 25:23
  or you can make a new one down the road.
• 25:26
  And so it's,
• 25:27
  I always go back to like an iterative process of creating
• 25:30
  content.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if it didn't work the first time, we'll just try something else.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely love the process.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, wipe my eye out.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have like a little marketing team now.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So who's helping you?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like who's making up the team and helping grow your firm right now?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So today it's just me and the digital marketer.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: My office manager would help out a lot.
• 25:52
  She was more into the networking because she was remote,
• 25:56
  but she was local.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so she would come with me to events.
• 26:00
  She would help me put my little swag bags together to give to
• 26:03
  clients and help me
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: create like capture content for social media.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was what she was doing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the digital marketer,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: she's in the she does my social media,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: my Google ads,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: things like that.
• 26:17
  I kind of want to give her my website,
• 26:19
  but I don't think she has enough experience.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna I tried her out for a couple of weeks on it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of after I just said, listen, let's try this.
• 26:28
  i don't expect you to know it we're super well or you might
• 26:34
  make mistakes but i
• 26:35
  don't think you're gonna like break anything with what i'm
• 26:38
  giving you to do so
• 26:39
  let's try it out see how it works and i just said don't be
• 26:44
  afraid of like telling
• 26:44
  me no i can't do this and eventually we figured out no i really
• 26:48
  need to hire
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: somebody to do my website so i'm waiting on that like i'm not waiting
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm procrastinating on that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I'm literally the head marketer, I guess.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a solo attorney.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm running my own law firm.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wear all the hats.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody else is like my assistant, basically.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm picking out the swag.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to networking events.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing referral marketing.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing all these things myself.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I feel like maybe I'm not good at,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I find that person to help me and pay them to do it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it frees up so much time.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they're only doing 10 hours a week or 15 hours a week,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: but that's 10 to 15 hours a week where I'm not having to do that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have that kind of time to dedicate to doing the thing.
• 27:34
  And so if I – and basically if I even tried to,
• 27:38
  like a lot of – it would fail.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just am one person.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So –
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's my team.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's me and the digital marketer.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe in the future,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'll have somebody in the same position where they're remote but local,
• 27:52
  where we can get together and he or she can continue helping me
• 27:57
  and doing things
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: around town.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Delegating a website is so difficult because without delegating
• 28:07
  it to like a
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: vendor,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: because web development isn't particularly hard.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like computer programming or being an engineer.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's still like a technical skill.
• 28:18
  And it's probably one of the things that if you have somebody
• 28:21
  in-house who's
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: already a web developer,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: you're really lucky.
• 28:24
  And I just haven't seen that happen at very many firms where
• 28:29
  their in-house
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: marketing team were also web developers.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
• 28:34
  like that's something that I feel like most firms are going to
• 28:37
  have to outsource at
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: some point.
• 28:39
  And the trick there is unfortunately cheap SEO companies are
• 28:45
  under $5,000 a month.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: All they're going to do is maintain your website.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're just not going to do a whole lot.
• 28:52
  And so you're almost stuck doing DIY until you're ready to
• 28:56
  invest big in SEO.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just,
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's just so difficult,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: but I guess the good news is websites are hard,
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: but like most everyone knows how to post something to social media,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: how to post something to YouTube.
• 29:09
  There are like,
• 29:11
  you and I talked about Substack,
• 29:12
  I think like a week ago,
• 29:13
  actually.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a blog there.
• 29:16
  There are a lot of other sites where you can just quickly build
• 29:19
  a website that you
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: won't have to maintain or even understand in that much detail.
• 29:24
  But it's so tricky because when you start getting into the web
• 29:27
  marketing with
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: criminal for sure and like PI,
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: that's where things are really competitive.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 29:33
  the race to the top of Google for either of those practice
• 29:37
  areas is just absolutely
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: cutthroat.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the people at the top are probably spending like
• 29:43
  20 000 a month for their seo rankings when you talk about their
• 29:47
  vendor fees when
• 29:48
  you talk about maybe what they're paying with ads and just
• 29:51
  other things so i want a
• 29:52
  lot of firms to like i wish i could tell firms like you could
• 29:55
  find somebody
• 29:56
  in-house to maintain your website but it's it's so rare it's
• 30:01
  such a it's such a
• 30:02
  hard thing to do but so yeah i think there's some things that
• 30:05
  you'll always have to
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: outsource but i mean
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you guys are doing great with the small team you have.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean,
• 30:11
  you're obviously doing quite a lot in implementing a lot of
• 30:14
  this marketing,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: which a lot of solos just really don't get to do themselves,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: which is really impressive.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to say something about like in-house versus hiring outside.
• 30:25
  I have not,
• 30:27
  this is not my first go around with like hiring from outside
• 30:29
  and do certain things.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, I'd rather do it, have somebody in-house.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Will I ever find that person?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 30:35
  But it's definitely a goal of mine to just have somebody in
• 30:38
  here who I'd say,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: this is the vision I have for this week for the blog or whatever,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: the website.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Please put it together.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let me review it.
• 30:48
  And then we can just post or even have somebody that works for
• 30:51
  me so much that they just know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:53
  What what I will like or won't like because they're just with
• 30:55
  me all the time and I
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: know my tastes or what I'm trying to achieve.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really the goal for me.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, maybe I'll find it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I won't.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:06
  I was just going to say,
• 31:07
  I feel like what you described is very attainable.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Putting up a webpage isn't,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't want to mischaracterize what I said,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: but setting up a simple WordPress page is pretty easily done,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: but like full-time website maintenance,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: SEO stuff,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: that's maybe a little bit out of reach of a solo in-house team.
• 31:26
  But like what you described to me feels like,
• 31:28
  seems like it's a very attainable goal.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: The hard part is just training them on your taste.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And in my experience with the small team I have,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: like it takes a little time,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: but it takes that feedback too,
• 31:39
  which I think is hard for a lot of business owners because you
• 31:41
  have to look at a
• 31:42
  creative and explain to somebody else what you don't like about
• 31:47
  it and what you
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: would prefer instead.
• 31:49
  And if you know nothing about design and you don't speak the
• 31:53
  language of SEO or web
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: development or whatever you're critiquing,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: It can be hard to kind of convey that message to them.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: the person you described,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's a very attainable,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: attainable marketer for most firms.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the process of finding them, right?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's what's going to take a while.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it might take years.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see, Tiffany.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we'll see what we can do.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that is definitely a goal of mine.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I wanted to bring a lot of stuff in-house,
• 32:24
  the reason why I want to bring a lot of stuff in-house is
• 32:26
  because I've had
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: experiences where I lost.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so...
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: you might hire somebody and then they'll do the thing,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: but they're doing it on their platform.
• 32:34
  And then if you're not working with them anymore,
• 32:35
  you lose access to that.
• 32:37
  And that's just a warning I want to give to anybody who who's
• 32:40
  out there wanting to do that.
• 32:41
  Just watch out for that and make sure it's in your contract
• 32:44
  with them that they
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: can't move your stuff away.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 32:46
  there was a company I thought about hiring to help me with
• 32:50
  automating certain
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: things in my firm,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: but I would have to move
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: They were using Zapier and they would build that stuff in their account.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if I fired them, I would lose all my automations.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's wild.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's wild to me.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're literally, I'm not going to hand you the cogs of my firm.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not happening, you know?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So of course I didn't work with them.
• 33:12
  But that's just one thing I think people should really worry,
• 33:16
  think about and watch out for.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a little warning.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've been through it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Learn from me.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody will ever listen.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to try it and they'll be the exception.
• 33:25
  It won't happen to them because that's what I was thinking too
• 33:27
  because I was warned.
• 33:28
  And the second thing I wanted to say about what smaller
• 33:31
  criminal defense law firms
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: can and can't do,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've noticed that in a lot of places,
• 33:37
  like I'm the only criminal defense attorney doing networking or
• 33:40
  doing voluntary bar
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: stuff outside of just like the criminal defense voluntary bar stuff.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so strange to me because
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: it is such a great place to get referrals from.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if maybe, I don't know why they're not there.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can't, I can only speculate and maybe they don't have the time.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't realize they should be doing it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just really strange.
• 34:08
  I think as a society,
• 34:09
  we're trending towards more people being introverted than
• 34:13
  extroverted.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly with the pandemic and everyone like going virtual,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: going online and going virtual.
• 34:22
  I feel like there's just a lot of people who aren't accustomed
• 34:25
  to like going out
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: and myself included,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: like I'm the queen of
• 34:29
  My weekend plans are staying at home all weekend and like doing
• 34:32
  house chores.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's perfectly fine for me.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, sometimes I'm like, oh, we should go out and do more stuff.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: But then again, I'm just an absolute homebody.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: So like, that's definitely my personality.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 34:45
  but I'm aware of like how necessary it is to do the stuff that
• 34:49
  you're suggesting,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: like getting out there,
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: meeting people,
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: talking to people.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Actually,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Ben Glass who said something like,
• 34:55
  you need to get out and meet people to let them know that
• 34:58
  you're not crazy.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not crazy.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a normal person.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's just so true.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I just feel like most people aren't accustomed to it,
• 35:08
  but that's kind of an opportunity for the people who are
• 35:10
  willing to do it.
• 35:11
  It's so easy to stay home behind your computer and post
• 35:15
  something to social media.
• 35:17
  It's much harder to like show up in an event and just shake
• 35:20
  hands with somebody you
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: don't know and say hi and try to get to know them.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: just looking at the amount of effort involved,
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just why more people kind of don't do those things.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so important.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it really is.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I don't want to say that there's no effort because there is.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's weird.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: the event I went to last night,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: it was...
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I got there like 15 minutes before it was supposed to end.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my day just didn't go as planned.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got there 15 minutes before it was supposed to end.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed there for the 15 minutes.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed longer, like 15 more minutes.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then I left.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was there for 30 minutes.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was like 10, 15 minutes from my home.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I really spent like an hour of time away from my home.
• 36:04
  Something really great happened there that's going to help me
• 36:06
  in the future.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And going there was totally worth it, right?
• 36:10
  And that's when I'm sitting there like,
• 36:13
  oh,
• 36:13
  I just don't really feel like going.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so tired.
• 36:17
  I'm like,
• 36:19
  one thing that's going to happen that's really going to help
• 36:20
  you.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have to meet everybody at the event.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I talked to three people.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there were maybe like 50 people there.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we had great conversations.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were nice.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I got one really great thing out of it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was another event that happened.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's been almost like three weeks.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just had such a rough day.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I...
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was a rough day for me personally.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: The weather was terrible,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: which means that if the weather is terrible in Florida,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: the traffic is terrible.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I already knew.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I went and I met this new person there and quite literally,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know how badly I didn't want to go to this event?
• 37:03
  I had to talk to my husband and my best friend like,
• 37:05
  please talk me into going to this event.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, you have to go.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you doing?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're just going to lay on the couch.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I went.
• 37:13
  And like four days later,
• 37:15
  that new person I met at the event sent me a referral.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I made money from going.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: to the thing and I needed it.
• 37:22
  So it's,
• 37:25
  the goal is just to get one,
• 37:26
  either really good connection with one person.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really the ultimate goal for me when I go to these events.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if something great comes from it, like, yes, that's even better.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Money, money is the great thing I'm looking for.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are we all,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: you reminded me of a goal that I keep setting for myself,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: never put the paper,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: which is to attend more events.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And cause it is just so important.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is so important.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's preoccupied with making things really efficient.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll talk to business owners and I understand why they're asking.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do I make the most out of this?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's something like going to an event,
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's there's tempting to be like,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to go to this event and we're going to do this.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do this.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to do this.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times it's almost intangible.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you go to an event or you talk to somebody,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: an opportunity you couldn't have planned for appears.
• 38:16
  And all of a sudden it's kind of changing the trajectory of
• 38:19
  what you're doing for
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: the next few months.
• 38:21
  And it's amazing and fun almost just to have that kind of
• 38:25
  spontaneity because you
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: just don't know what's out there for you.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: You just don't know what opportunities are on the horizon.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: You just,
• 38:33
  you have to get out there and talk to people and be open to
• 38:37
  what comes your way,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: which I just think is so important.
• 38:40
  So I,
• 38:40
  and actually we're a little bit over time,
• 38:42
  I guess we had a good conversation.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: but so my Tiffany,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 38:48
  so was there anything that you wanted to talk about that we
• 38:51
  didn't go over?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: First of all,
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say that,
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: earlier in the conversation,
• 38:57
  you said something like it doesn't seem like a real job to be a
• 38:59
  social media
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: manager.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: But like I've tried doing that myself and it's so hard.
• 39:04
  And you just have to know so many things about how this
• 39:07
  platform works or how to engage people.
• 39:10
  Like it's just so much you it's literally a job and you need to
• 39:13
  know so many technical things.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of have to be you have to be talented at it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to have years of experience to do it well, is what I think.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a job.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that you said that it wasn't a job,
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: but it just might seem like it's not a job,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: but it is really a big job,
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: especially if you want to try that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to take it seriously too.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have to take it seriously.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have to be so careful with everything that you do.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is that try to find –
• 39:45
  One of the people that got me into this mindset of it just has
• 39:50
  to get done,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: it doesn't have to be perfect,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: was a YouTube person.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot her name right now, but I watch her all the time.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she used to work in corporate America, I guess.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: And she went on her own and she's calling herself a creative.
• 40:05
  But she has a corporate background and she's talking about
• 40:09
  building a business.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, you have to be creative about it.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she...
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what, she's like a coach.
• 40:16
  She's like a coach,
• 40:17
  like a business coach,
• 40:17
  but she's taking this creative tact about it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the right direction she's going in.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not like you have to watch your KPIs.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like that.
• 40:26
  It's more about the emotional aspect of going in a business and
• 40:29
  how to do great things with it.
• 40:30
  whatever she's great so she basically said something like you
• 40:33
  have to be delusional
• 40:34
  until everybody else catches up it's like what she's saying
• 40:38
  about it like just do
• 40:39
  the thing like you don't have any followers who cares keep
• 40:42
  posting you will get the
• 40:43
  followers just keep acting like you have a ton of followers get
• 40:46
  on the video and
• 40:47
  say hey guys and they're not but never be any guys back there
• 40:51
  watching what you're
• 40:52
  doing but pretend that there are and continue behaving in that
• 40:55
  way because they
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: will catch up so that's something that i always try to keep in mind
• 40:59
  just do the thing i don't know if that makes any sense if you
• 41:04
  remember her name
• 41:05
  like let me know because i i want to look her up actually i um
• 41:08
  well i mean you know
• 41:09
  they're for me women and men are so different that like i seek
• 41:13
  out women business
• 41:15
  coaches because i feel like they just give advice that's better
• 41:17
  suited to me
• 41:18
  because we just don't want to get too much in the battle of
• 41:20
  sexes but we think
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: differently i think so i mean i definitely love to check her out um
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you want people to look you up and learn more about you?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, my website.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's www.zhernandezlaw.com.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very active on Instagram.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's z.hernandezlaw.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's my at name, if that's what it's called.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: See, I don't even know the technical terms for the things.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think you got it.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think you got it, yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the places you can find me.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also on YouTube.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well...
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not exactly on YouTube yet.
• 41:57
  It's going to launch,
• 41:57
  but it's the same app names are basically across all the
• 41:59
  platforms.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Z dot Hernandez law.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you can find me.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for, for talking with me today and being a guest.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
• 42:10
  And everyone listening,
• 42:11
  go check out Serena on her website and social media.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you all so much for listening.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Tiffany.