Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / If You're A Preoccupied Attachment Guy, Here's What To Watch Out For On The Internet

Transcript

If You're A Preoccupied Attachment Guy, Here's What To Watch Out For On The Internet · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:08
  Today I'm going to be talking about what preoccupied
• 0:11
  attachment men need to watch out for when going down the rabbit
• 0:16
  hole of various Internet advice. So before I get to that, which
• 0:22
  is a big topic because as I will discuss, most of the guys
• 0:26
  listening to this are preoccupied attachment hint.
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  If your wife did not force you to listen to this, your
• 0:31
  preoccupied attachment there is possibly.
• 0:36
  Possibly some disorganized in here as well definitely but not
• 0:40
  avoidant So if maybe some secure that are just kind of really
• 0:45
  think I'm hilarious but but the the majority of people who are
• 0:48
  trying to get stuff out of Internet advice or preoccupied
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  attachment I'll discuss more of that but before I do please do
• 0:54
  subscribe. Most recent subscriber episode
• 0:57
  was on when working partners grow apart from stay at home
• 1:01
  partners and I see this a lot guys I work with and their wives
• 1:04
  and sometimes women that work. And stay at home.
• 1:06
  Dads. Husbands.
• 1:08
  So anyway that and 126 or something more episodes for 899
• 1:13
  a month, which is pretty good because you get so many
• 1:17
  episodes, I mean and they're all at least like 15 minutes.
• 1:19
  You know some they're 20. It's like lot of hours in the
• 1:24
  car doing chores whatever you do, okay, so.
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  The majority of people who look up advice on their relationships
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  are preoccupied attachment. They are overly focused on their
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  relationships. You can go back to my original
• 1:36
  attachment style podcast Just Search Attachment in the Spotify
• 1:40
  app search engine for this podcast or I have ones on
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  literally on preoccupied attachment.
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  Preoccupied attachment Husband should listen to that, but
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  preoccupied attachment guys are the ones who tend to.
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  To follow advice on the Internet, and not all of it is
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  is good, you know, I mean, not all of it is very even handed.
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  A lot of it is like, poor me, I'm the victim and so, So a lot
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  of it says that like women cheat at these super high rates and
• 2:12
  they're always looking to trade up and they're always like into
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  the next hottest guy. I mean, this shit has no basis
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  in like any reality that most people see.
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  You know, I I have a post coming out.
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  It'll probably be out by the time you guys hear this.
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  But who knows? On women don't usually cheat is
• 2:32
  what it's called. And certainly rates of women
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  cheating or half those of men pretty much So.
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  I mean, people don't usually cheat, 80% of men don't and 90%
• 2:44
  of women don't. So if you have experienced a
• 2:49
  woman cheating. It's likely that she's a very
• 2:51
  dramatic personality in the Cluster B personality disorder
• 2:55
  group, you know, or traits they're in which include
• 2:58
  Narcissistic and Borderline. But what have I taught you?
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  Are you a perfect person? If you've gotten involved with a
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  woman with Borderline, certainly not.
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  You either tend toward being narcissistic or enabling.
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  You know and being codependent. So.
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  So what you have is like the most dramatic guy is talking
• 3:15
  about how they're you know, bitch ex wives cheated on them
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  with like 40 men. And that's like just not
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  anything near normal, you know, I mean if, if, if you went on to
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  like a forum for spouses of addicts you know and just
• 3:32
  searched by you know. And talking about addict wives,
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  you would think that most women were were addicts, but they're
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  not, you know? Or that most women were
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  borderline. It's the same equivalent.
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  Which guys? This will resonate more with you
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  as the women who talk about their exhusbands being
• 3:48
  narcissists. You know, everybody isn't a
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  narcissist, right? And so the women that are
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  involved in those relationships are more dramatic and they are
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  the ones who are going to write all about them on the Internet.
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  To what my friend dad starting over calls the vocal minority.
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  But the reason is because people in these dramatic relationships
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  are drawn to each other and then afterwards they're still
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  dramatic. So they're still, you know,
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  talking about the relationship on the Internet.
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  But when guys who are preoccupied attachment, which
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  is, you know, they're anxious about their relationship
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  already, they have low self esteem, they have low self
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  worth, they always think their spouse is too good for them.
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  Did a podcast of guys who think that.
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  That everybody thinks their wife is hotter than they are.
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  You know, these guys are particularly susceptible to to
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  this kind of stuff, you know? And to listening and to thinking
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  that their wife's actually cheating on them.
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  I did this whole podcast with the sex as a freeze tag analogy.
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  It's as ridiculous. You think in your low libido
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  wife is cheating on you, is in. At least 90% of cases, you know,
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  if not more as ridiculous based on the age.
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  I'm saying, you know, because in midlife women cheat at very low
• 5:00
  rates. Their their hormones go down and
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  you know they don't want to sleep with anybody, including
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  the guy. But it's as silly as if your
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  child said, and I did a whole podcast on this so I don't have
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  to belabor the point. But if your child said, oh, you
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  don't want to play freeze tag with me, you must be playing
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  freeze tag during the day with another kid while you're at
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  work. You'd be like, no, I just don't
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  care about freeze tag. Remember, I'm a grown up.
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  You know, like you'd be be lucky.
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  I'm playing with you when I do, you know, and and that's kind of
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  how your wife feels and and how the situation is for the
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  majority of men, the wife's not cheating on them.
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  She just has a lower libido, you know, in monogamy and his
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  preoccupied attachment behavior is turning her off even more.
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  That she could, if she felt that she was in a loving marriage,
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  possibly have more sex or connection or intimacy.
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  But if the guy is always like reading Internet advice and
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  coming to her with like 25 things that we need to talk
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  about and going through her e-mail and shit, well, then of
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  course you're not going to want to have sex with him.
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  He seems crazy to her, you know? And these women are going to be
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  more avoided generally, and it's even more of a turn off to them
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  when the guy is like, just. Complaining and insecure and
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  whining. And I have a podcast.
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  Nobody likes a whiner, you know, because it's true.
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  So a lot of guys say that women don't like emotional men, but
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  this is because the only emotion they've ever shown is like anger
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  and fear. And it's about the relationship.
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  I mean, you know, like, they don't express joy or gratitude
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  or appreciation or happiness much.
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  It's really just kind of this negative, like, are you cheating
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  on me? Why don't you love me?
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  How can I make you more attracted to me?
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  Sort of hysteria. And of course that's going to
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  turn off. Anybody of any gender.
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  So you got and the the other reason that men with preoccupied
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  attachment are very susceptible to to thinking the worst and to
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  going down these rabbit holes of Internet advice is they usually
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  get super preoccupied with the relationship.
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  So then they don't have a lot of friends you know.
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  So This is why like again my friend dad starting over has
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  this fraternity of men you know to be friends with and you can
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  you you can do that you can DIY this by like making a friend.
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  Like at the gym or something. Like somebody who, like, does
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  the same sort of thing you do seems to work for men a lot.
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  Like sports. You know, play tennis with
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  somebody, play golf with somebody, you know.
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  Preoccupied attachment guys, when they're on the Internet,
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  they only encounter each other. So then they assume everybody's
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  preoccupied attachment and everybody's obsessed with their
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  relationship and their sex life. But that's not true.
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  Most guys are avoided if they had to pick one insecure
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  attachment like the majority of people are secure.
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  But after that most guys are avoided and though the minority
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  is preoccupied and the very minority is disorganized.
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  And I have a podcast on Fearful avoidance that's disorganized.
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  That's after an abusive childhood.
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  But so if you hang out with some other guys, or if you even just
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  like, talk on a deeper level to some of your coworkers or
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  something, or reconnect with old friends, or go into different
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  Internet forums just like the regular ones, like ones on other
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  interests you have or something. But again, people who are on
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  Internet forums, and I say this knowing that I run an Internet
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  forum, right. But.
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  But. Like people who are on Internet
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  forums are not your average person.
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  They're not in any way. First of all, they're like way
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  more verbals. They like to talk a lot more.
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  And then the ones who are in relationship forums are talking
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  a lot about relationships. This makes Joe Average
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  preoccupied man, think that like all guys are talking about their
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  relationship all the time and they're not.
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  And that's not something to do, You know, that's not something
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  that's helpful. So.
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  So here's the thing. So you need to have other guy
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  friends. So I said I would help you with
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  this. What to do instead of be on the
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  Internet researching why your wife is cheating on you when
• 8:45
  she's not And you have. I mean, certainly, yes,
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  sometimes that happens. It's really rare, you know, So I
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  mean it would be like. Like, like, you know, it would
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  be like every time I say I'm going to basically use a high
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  libido male and a low libido woman as my exemplar situation
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  in marriages with libido disparity, because that's the
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  majority. So I try to talk about the
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  majority, the majority of cases that helps the majority of
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  people. She's not cheating on you.
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  She's not thinking about cheating on you, You know, she
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  just doesn't care. Like she's she's she's wants you
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  to leave her the fuck alone. Yeah, sure, there's a million
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  problems with preoccupied attachment that could be helped,
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  you know, with individual therapy, with couples therapy.
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  You know, she's got to work on her own stuff too, certainly.
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  But it's usually not that she is trying to trade up to a richer
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  guy or something that, like the Internet is telling you.
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  So anyway, So what could you do? Therapy.
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  I just said that make friends is like a big one.
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  Get more invested in Your career is super big.
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  If you're thinking about, like, building your career, then
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  you're not thinking about whether she's cheating on you
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  all the time. You're not thinking about your
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  relationship all the time. How about parenting?
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  Throw yourself really into parenting your kids.
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  Make yourself the dad that you always wanted to be.
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  Don't tell yourself that you're able to do that while you're
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  obsessing about your wife. Because you're not.
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  Anybody who's obsessive or addictive is not being the best
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  parent that they could be because too much is occupying
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  their mind. If you're obsessed with having
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  sex with your wife, exactly, you know, two to three times a week
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  because that's what you made her agree upon in couples
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  counseling, then and you're like keeping your fucking
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  spreadsheet, then you're not really probably being that good
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  of a dad, you know, because we can't really do all things, you
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  know? So So yeah, that.
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  I mean, if you want to go on Internet forums, only go on ones
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  with both genders or sometimes people.
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  I've had a couple guys go on Reddit forums for women.
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  They lurk. They don't pretend to be women.
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  That would be crazy. But they actually look at what
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  women talk about and it's like a big version of reading my post.
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  Here's nine things that your wife thinks about all day.
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  Like I've had multiple clients like who are like either they
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  they saw something on their wife's computer that she goes on
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  Internet forums for women, or they just found them like by
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  researching, Googling around. And they look and they see a
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  whole bunch of women talking to each other and like barely any
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  of them are doing anything that they think their wife is doing
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  or thinking. So that could be useful.
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  My Facebook group. I would be remiss if I didn't
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  mention my own Facebook group. It's on the Internet, but it has
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  men and women and it's all people that like my stuff.
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  I fancy myself and I hope that that is not without merit as
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  even handed talking about both sides.
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  So. You know that can be very useful
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  to to have both sides. So there have been people in my
• 11:34
  Facebook group that have said I didn't really understand what
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  women slash men thought till I talked to the people in this
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  group. It's also not a vibe where
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  people are hitting on each other.
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  So like you don't have to worry about that, you know.
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  Although I still nurse a secret hope that that there will be a
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  love connection or at least a best friend connection somewhere
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  in my group. But but people will say
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  something like my wife rejected me for sex like you know, like I
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  feel so bad and like a bunch of. Women will be like, well, what
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  about this? What about that?
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  Like, how about maybe she was thinking this or that?
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  Or like, from the interaction you describe, that doesn't sound
• 12:08
  as bad as what you are taking it as or something like that.
• 12:11
  It could be really useful because most guys don't have
• 12:14
  platonic female friends, nor should they, especially if
• 12:16
  they're in a sexless marriage. I mean, that's a recipe for
• 12:18
  disaster. So, you know, So that can be
• 12:21
  very good if you do get a therapist.
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  You know, frequently men find it beneficial to speak to a female
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  therapist because they're trying to understand their wife.
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  They're trying to understand that women are people that
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  women, especially if they're trying to get back out of too
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  much red pill stuff that they've been swallowing.
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  You know, it it's useful to talk to a woman who you respect and
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  who you think isn't some sort of a hypergamous bitch, you know?
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  So, so yeah, so that that can be useful.
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  But really having other focuses. And when you are interacting on
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  the topic of relationships, do it in an objective manner with
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  people who are going to be objective with you.
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  You know, so having like a large friend, group of men, or even a
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  male friend, as long as he's not identical to yourself and also
• 13:14
  obsessed with that his wife maybe may not love him enough,
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  then then good, like he can provide some sort of a sounding
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  board if there are. If there was a therapist that
• 13:23
  you trust, a coach that you trust.
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  Looking literally only looking at what women talk about on the
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  Internet themselves can be useful.
• 13:34
  Things like my Facebook group can be useful.
• 13:37
  Things like male coaching have been useful to other people.
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  You know like what DSO offers DSO's dad starting over if
• 13:45
  you're like new to this, this blog or this podcast or
• 13:48
  whatever. I've he was my only podcast
• 13:50
  guest. But yeah, so like he's a nice
• 13:53
  guy like and it's really interesting because like the
• 13:55
  difference between his main page, like his outward facing
• 13:58
  Facebook page that has like 100,000 people following it,
• 14:02
  that place is is really. Really like this flavor of what
• 14:06
  I'm talking about. Super preoccupied attachment
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  guys obsessing about how bad women are.
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  But then like when you get into the group itself, because I've
• 14:14
  done like talks and stuff for them, it's more objective people
• 14:18
  who are really trying to understand their relationships
• 14:21
  and how to be better. So you know it.
• 14:23
  It's very different and like Reddit and stuff that's like all
• 14:26
  just anonymous. At least Facebook, it has your
• 14:29
  name attached to it, but you know if it's like a screen name
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  and it's anonymized, people are really their worst.
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  Yourselves. They're just vomiting out any,
• 14:37
  you know, like nasty misogynistic shit.
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  And and for the women boards it's Miss Andrick, Miss and Miss
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  Andry, you know, anti male stuff too.
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  So there's like all obviously loads and loads of places on the
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  Internet where men are reviled and I try to be just as
• 14:54
  disapproving of those as I am about the converse.
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  So anyway, just to recap your preoccupied attachment guy.
• 15:00
  Get into different spaces, head spaces, physical spaces,
• 15:05
  friendship spaces where your belief system is not just in an
• 15:09
  echo chamber, making you more and more ramped up and likelier
• 15:12
  to accuse your wife of shit that she's not.
• 15:14
  She's not doing in a way that isn't going to make your
• 15:17
  relationship better, but instead it's going to make your
• 15:19
  relationship terrible. That's really the TLDR to use a
• 15:22
  Reddit term, ironically. All right, I hope that this was
• 15:25
  useful for some of you. Please do subscribe.
• 15:29
  And and it's interesting you know, like I was saying about
• 15:32
  Dso's Facebook page. Just make sure that you guys
• 15:36
  just to clarify that's my Facebook page too.
• 15:38
  Like there's so much of a difference between my outward
• 15:41
  Facebook page where people just say whatever bullshit and then
• 15:44
  like the group you know where people are nice to each other.
• 15:48
  Like people will do that if you pay.
• 15:50
  I don't know how much he charges.
• 15:51
  You know probably like similar to me it's like 499 into the to
• 15:55
  get into the group and he offers other shit.
• 15:57
  So who knows what's what that is.
• 15:58
  But it's like if you. Pay literally $1.00 to do
• 16:01
  something. You're going to be less of a
• 16:03
  prick, you know when you're in there and you're going to be
• 16:05
  more careful and conscientious because you're actually
• 16:08
  committing to getting something and to receiving feedback on the
• 16:12
  Internet. There's a lot of feedback givers
• 16:14
  and not a lot of feedback receivers, you know?
• 16:16
  And when when you're somebody who's struggling with feeling
• 16:18
  vulnerable can be really, really tough to to not get caught up in
• 16:24
  groupthink, you know, and then like think that that your wife
• 16:28
  is really out to. Get you in some way and it's
• 16:31
  like they're all women and just crazy shit that's like not real
• 16:35
  that. Hopefully you've done enough
• 16:37
  listening on the to my podcast to see your wife is just a
• 16:40
  person with her own struggles. And that sounds kind of cliche,
• 16:45
  but it's literally the exact feedback that people tell me
• 16:49
  that they get, the viewpoint shift that they get from
• 16:51
  listening to my stuff, Oh my God, my wife is literally just a
• 16:54
  person. She just like me.
• 16:56
  You know, she has different needs, but she's not trying to
• 16:58
  get one over on me. She didn't have any bait and
• 17:01
  switch. You know, master plan.
• 17:06
  This isn't fucking pinky in the brain or whatever like it.
• 17:09
  It's just two people that are trying and failing to understand
• 17:11
  each other and possibly with therapy.
• 17:13
  Individual. And that's the thing for
• 17:15
  preoccupied attachment guys. Often individual therapy, by the
• 17:18
  way, is better. You need to do that shit before
• 17:20
  you go to couples therapy because you really need to work
• 17:22
  on yourself and understand how you are making the situation.
• 17:25
  Frequently. Quite.
• 17:26
  Worse. And when your wife sees you calm
• 17:29
  the fuck down a little bit about stuff, then she may be
• 17:31
  interested in couples because she has already then seen the
• 17:34
  benefits of therapy in you. All right, no more PS's.
• 17:39
  This will end now. All right, Have a great day,
• 17:41
  guys. Bye.
• 17:41
  Bye.