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Celebrating NAIDOC Week with Evolve Communities · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yor the
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
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  Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is beck
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: Syed and with me is Victoria Devine. Happy nato Q Weekfidi,
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: Oh thank you.
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  Speaker 5: I am very excited about this Happy naydoc Queak nato
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: Week celebrates and recognizes the history, culture, and achievements of
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  Speaker 5: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and we thought it
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: was a wonderful opportunity to welcome back friends of the
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: show and two very special women, the two directors of
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: evolved Communities. Auntie Manya Andrews and Carla Rodgers friends, welcome back.
• 1:31
  Speaker 6: Great to be here, so gad to see you.
• 1:33
  Speaker 7: Thank you. We love the show. We're number one fans.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Oh you suer cute.
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: We are also so excited to have you guys back,
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: because today we're going to be chatting about the challenges
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: faced by black businesses in Australia, how we can actually
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: show up as our lives, and how businesses can be
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  Speaker 5: more inclusive and honestly so much more. But to start off, guys,
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  Speaker 5: what does this year's NADOC theme, keep the Fire Burning Black,
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  Speaker 5: Loud and Proud mean to you?
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  Speaker 6: Keep the fires burning It's about keeping the spirit alive,
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  Speaker 6: spirit of country, spirit of ancestors, and spirit of culture.
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  Speaker 6: Keep that burning because that's what guards us through life.
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  Speaker 6: And long as the fires are maintained, then we're maintained
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  Speaker 6: and sustained. So for me, on that very larger level,
• 2:21
  Speaker 6: what about you color, Yeah, So.
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  Speaker 8: A non indigenous ally, it's very much keeping the fire
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  Speaker 8: alive in the belly of supporting First Nations people and
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  Speaker 8: also the fire alive of us as non Indigenous Austrains
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  Speaker 8: learning from First Nations wisdom learning from the oldest continuous culture.
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  Speaker 7: In the world.
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  Speaker 8: There's so many ways that we can grow and heal
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  Speaker 8: as a country if we were to open our hearts
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  Speaker 8: and minds to First Nations people and their wisdom and
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  Speaker 8: always I have found First Nations people so generous and
• 2:59
  Speaker 8: receptive and opening up their hands inviting us to come
• 3:04
  Speaker 8: in on that journey with them.
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  Speaker 4: That's really really beautifully said. Now, evolved communities exist to
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  Speaker 4: build awareness of Aboriginal terres Strait islander culture and encourage
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  Speaker 4: reconciliation and allyship. I can see literally that you guys
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: have such a nice and close connection and comfort between
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: you both. How did you come to the place of
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: creating this organization and how did you to meet?
• 3:28
  Speaker 8: Always a story and I'm not a quick storytellerself, I'm
• 3:31
  Speaker 8: trying to I actually found it evolved in two thousand
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  Speaker 8: and five.
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  Speaker 7: I was lucky to get this thing.
• 3:38
  Speaker 8: Called a Churchill Fellowship, which enables you to go overseas
• 3:42
  Speaker 8: and study something. We've exhausted all your study options in Australia.
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  Speaker 7: So I was looking at the involvement of.
• 3:49
  Speaker 8: First Nations people in looking after country and when I
• 3:54
  Speaker 8: came back, I was working in protected area management, and
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  Speaker 8: I was getting a little bit frustrated at.
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  Speaker 7: The pace of change in government. So I started evolved
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  Speaker 7: to do this work.
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  Speaker 8: Fast forward about five or six years and we had
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  Speaker 8: a very large project up in the Gulf of Carpenteria,
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  Speaker 8: working in remote Aboriginal communities, helping them come up with
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  Speaker 8: their own solutions to some pretty tricky, hard yarns. We
• 4:23
  Speaker 8: call them things like suicide and alcohol and violence. And
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  Speaker 8: so I was a non indigenous person leading a team
• 4:30
  Speaker 8: of Indigenous people and we needed a leader for that
• 4:35
  Speaker 8: team and who should be recommended but Anti Monia, Yes.
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  Speaker 6: And then so I came on board and really then
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  Speaker 6: Color and I got chatting about lots of things, but
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  Speaker 6: we discovered we had a similar vision, and that's to
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: create a kind of more inclusive Australia. And so we
• 4:52
  Speaker 6: got talking about things and realized we wanted to be
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  Speaker 6: out there educating people. So we decided to combine our
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: skills where we've developed this business and allyship programs in particular.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, so this is a pretty lofty vision.
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  Speaker 8: You know, it sounds very nice, a kind of more
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  Speaker 8: inclusive Australia, but it was very much well, how do.
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  Speaker 7: We do that?
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  Speaker 8: And that's when we thought, well, it's non indigenous people
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  Speaker 8: like me. Let's turn the lens on people like myself,
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  Speaker 8: the ninety seven percent of the population in Australia.
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  Speaker 7: And what is it. What do we need to know?
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  Speaker 8: What skills do we need to have, What understandings do
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  Speaker 8: we need to have to be confident allies? And also
• 5:32
  Speaker 8: to realize how much we have to learn and grow
• 5:36
  Speaker 8: from this invitation. And that's when we developed what we
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  Speaker 8: call the Seven Steps to Practical Reconciliation, which underpins all
• 5:44
  Speaker 8: our programs. It was actually sitting on a dock. I
• 5:47
  Speaker 8: can remember where we were. We were sitting on.
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  Speaker 6: A wharf and all the kids, you jumping off the
• 5:52
  Speaker 6: yeah and everything.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, and beautiful blue water and the genesis. I guess
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  Speaker 8: of a lot of these thoughts and frameworks and program.
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  Speaker 5: So not in a fancy boardroom, in a dock or
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: on a dock. I should say that's much cooler than
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: the way that we come up with ideas.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Back.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, I think we do play that song in the background.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like it sounds good, but I want
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: to know more because I feel like something that I
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: have been really passionate about since having you on the
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: show a couple of years ago.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: It's just getting more people across what you guys.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: Do, and I feel like you are popping up more
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  Speaker 5: and more, Like Auntie Manya see you on TikTok all
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: the time.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite things ever. I feel like you.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: Are one of the warmest souls, like you answer questions
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: so beautifully and it just feels, honestly like a little
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: wholesome corner of the Internet.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite. But I want to know a.
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: Bit more about the I guess idea that is so
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: central to what evolved do allyship for all of us?
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  Speaker 5: How are we working towards that and achieving that? And
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: you know, what can we do as that she's on
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  Speaker 5: the money community to more actively work towards that.
• 6:58
  Speaker 7: Yeah, really beautiful question.
• 7:00
  Speaker 8: And just you having us on the show today and
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  Speaker 8: everyone in your community that we're reaching out to now,
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  Speaker 8: this is an act of ollyship.
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: So you're doing it right now. Anyone listening is doing
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: it right now.
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  Speaker 8: And what we emphasize that Evolve is that the first
• 7:19
  Speaker 8: step in our yship is self education.
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  Speaker 7: But it doesn't have to be complex things.
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  Speaker 8: It can be things you can incorporate into your every
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  Speaker 8: day finding out more about who the traditional owners are
• 7:32
  Speaker 8: where you live, or people might be familiar with the
• 7:36
  Speaker 8: cultural protocol and acknowledgment of country, and some people often
• 7:41
  Speaker 8: aren't familiar with that protocol and may not know the difference,
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  Speaker 8: for example, between a welcome to country and acknowledgment of country.
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  Speaker 7: It's such an important protocol.
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  Speaker 8: Welcome can only be done by a traditional owner from
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  Speaker 8: their land on which you're meeting or speaking. An acknowledgment
• 8:01
  Speaker 8: can be done by anybody. So it's just such a
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  Speaker 8: practical step that.
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  Speaker 7: We can all take.
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  Speaker 8: And when we're teaching people about how to acknowledge country authentically,
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  Speaker 8: we take you through a meditation where you put yourself
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  Speaker 8: in a place that you really feel connected to country.
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  Speaker 7: So even if you.
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  Speaker 8: Want to think about that now, you know, is it
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  Speaker 8: at the beach, is it out on the lawn? You know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 8: could be anywhere, and then going to that place and
• 8:29
  Speaker 8: then we take you through a visualization of how do
• 8:32
  Speaker 8: you feel in that place and what makes it special
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  Speaker 8: for you? And hear the wind and what are the
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  Speaker 8: sounds you hear around you, and then just leaning into
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  Speaker 8: that feeling of gratitude because we all have a deep
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  Speaker 8: connection to country and for first nations, people, countries, family.
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  Speaker 8: So that's why a lot of our best ideas probably
• 8:53
  Speaker 8: do come when we're out in country. And what we
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  Speaker 8: would encourage your listeners to do after listening to this
• 8:59
  Speaker 8: podcast when you can is go outside and you know,
• 9:02
  Speaker 8: if you can go into a lawn or somewhere and
• 9:05
  Speaker 8: take your shoes off and think that where you're standing
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  Speaker 8: right now, for tens of thousands of years people have
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  Speaker 8: walked before you, and think of those foot prints and
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  Speaker 8: the footprints of the people that are coming. And then
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  Speaker 8: take that sense into when you're acknowledging country. You don't
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  Speaker 8: have to wait for a formal meeting to acknowledge country.
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  Speaker 8: How a go when you go for your walk today,
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  Speaker 8: and I'll even put that to both of you after
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  Speaker 8: the podcast.
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  Speaker 7: If you go for a walk, or if you're looking
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  Speaker 7: at your beautiful new.
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  Speaker 8: Baby, you know, have a think about, well, who the
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  Speaker 8: traditional owners are and why do you feel grateful for
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  Speaker 8: living on this country and expressing that gratitude. So this
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  Speaker 8: is what we emphasize is that allyship is those sort
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  Speaker 8: of acts that feel.
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  Speaker 7: Genuine to you.
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  Speaker 8: It's about acknowledging the wisdom and feeling deeply grateful for
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  Speaker 8: what we all share here now, living on this country
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  Speaker 8: in Australia.
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  Speaker 7: Anti money, What would you add to that?
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  Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, No. The other thing is that I think
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  Speaker 6: people may not know is that by acknowledging our ancestors,
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  Speaker 6: it's also about blessing you or getting protection. Australia is
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  Speaker 6: such a large country. It's easy to get lost, but
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  Speaker 6: if you acknowledge the ancestors, they'll guide you and will
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: prevent you from being lost. And so it's about protecting
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  Speaker 6: yourself as well, so you get benefits from that as well.
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  Speaker 6: You know, you might be about to step on a
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  Speaker 6: dangerous snake, for instance, but if you've acknowledged their ancestors,
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  Speaker 6: they'll look after you.
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  Speaker 1: I adore that so much.
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  Speaker 5: I think so many times when people are first introduced
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  Speaker 5: to this concept of allyship, you could draw the assumption
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  Speaker 5: that allyship is really about doing something for others and
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  Speaker 5: it is. You forget about how much you get out
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: of it personally, like acknowledgment to country and just being
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  Speaker 5: able to connect, Like who doesn't love the feeling of
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: sands between their toes, or you know, fresh cut grass
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: under their feet, or just feeling like you got out
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  Speaker 5: of the office today into the beautiful fresh air, Like
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  Speaker 5: I feel like it gives you such a deeper sense
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: of connection that ultimately impacts your mental health, it impacts
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: your physical health, like you become a better, more rounded
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: human by connecting in with this. It's like we talk
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: about gratitude and how important gratitude is in everyday life,
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: but by extending it and understanding where that comes from,
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: you just have this deeper understanding of the world. You
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: have a deeper connection with gratitude, but also a deeper
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: connection with gratefulness.
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  Speaker 1: Like I just feel so grateful to be.
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  Speaker 5: Walking on the land that you know, people have looked
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  Speaker 5: after for years and years and years before me, like
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: hundreds of millions of years before me, this land was
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: walked by other people, And isn't it beautiful to not
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  Speaker 5: only acknowledge that, but really think about their journeys and
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  Speaker 5: how they're now guiding us, and that they're decisions really
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: paved the way for us and what we're able to
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: achieve today. I don't know, I just feel like it's selfish,
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: but I get so much out of allyship and that's
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: not why we do it.
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  Speaker 1: But I adore it.
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  Speaker 6: I completely agree, And you know, it's about acknowledging our ancestors,
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  Speaker 6: the ones who went before us, and they're not just
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: my ancestors, they're your ancestors as well, because you live
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: in this country and they're the ones who came before you,
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  Speaker 6: And so it's getting in touch with them so that
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: they're walking beside us at all times.
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: And they walked so we could continue walking. And I
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: think that that's why it's so important to acknowledge and
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  Speaker 5: just you know, really deeply connect with that, not just
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: because it's important, but because it becomes intrinsic in who
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: we are. And if we don't understand who we are
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: or where we've come from, how do we understand where
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: we're going and actually have a good, beautiful, big impact.
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: Like I'm just obviously passionate about this, not nearly as
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: wildly passionate as you guys, which is why I was like.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Please get them on the show. There's so much better
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: at this.
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: They just kill it every single time I want to
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: talk about I guess, what do we need to know
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: when it comes to being really effective and competent allies?
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: Beyond what we've been discussing, where do we begin that
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: journey if we've never done it before?
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  Speaker 1: How do we start?
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  Speaker 5: And I know color you said before, like get outstanding
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  Speaker 5: the grass, Like what are some practical tips that I
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: could bring to either my friendship circle or my workplace
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: or you know, my home and family. That means that
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: I can become an allay if it's not something that
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: I have considered or really valued before today.
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: The first step is always self education.
• 13:39
  Speaker 8: And it's interesting what you say about self reflection and
• 13:42
  Speaker 8: learning more about yourself. All of our programs are very
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: experiential and immersive and they're really about self reflection.
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: It's like anything I guess you know that adage that
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: you teach what you most need to know.
• 13:55
  Speaker 8: Yes, I'm here because obviously what I most need to
• 13:59
  Speaker 8: know in life is how to be an ally. So
• 14:01
  Speaker 8: how do I do that is teach others. Big part
• 14:04
  Speaker 8: of that teaching is sharing the many mistakes I've made
• 14:08
  Speaker 8: over five decades as an ally. So where do you
• 14:14
  Speaker 8: start is self learning? And for example, we've got loads
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: of resources. We've got a big bold obsession to have
• 14:22
  Speaker 8: ten million more or half of Australia as allies, so
• 14:25
  Speaker 8: obviously we need lots of touch points for that. So
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: that's why we've got things like ask anti ask an
• 14:30
  Speaker 8: ally and all sorts of resources on the internet, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 8: we actually have this framework of seven steps and we
• 14:38
  Speaker 8: can touch on what each of those are. But where
• 14:40
  Speaker 8: you start is self education. There's so many ways you
• 14:43
  Speaker 8: can do that. There's watching programs on TV, there's so
• 14:46
  Speaker 8: much indigenous content now on mainstream media, reading books, but
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: listening to people's stories. So probably where do you start?
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: If we had to put it in one word, it
• 14:56
  Speaker 8: would be listen.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: I really like that. Start with your and start with listening,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: start with wanting to educate yourself, and start with yet
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: just becoming open and exposing yourself to different stories, different experiences,
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: different things like that. I think it's a really beautiful
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: way to start, and it's really really beautifully worded. I think
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: we should go to a really quick break.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because on the flip side, we're going to be
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: talking about Evolve and how they've been involved with some
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: of Australia's biggest companies, but also how we as individuals
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: and how businesses can develop and attract and really champion
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: and indigenous talents. So guys don't go anywhere.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Welcome back everyone, and today we have Karl and Auntie
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: Manya joining us. I just wanted to jump into Evolve.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: So Evolve has been used by Australia's biggest companies, Adobe, IBM,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: All Words, and the actual government and the literalmental Government,
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: just to name a few, to help understand Aboriginal and
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: Torres Strait Islander culture and protocols, build allies and create
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: more inclusive businesses through their programs. Guys, what are some
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: of the biggest challenges you think businesses face when looking
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: to be more inclusive?
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: Think about inclusivity to do it properly, I guess it's
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: the DNA of a business.
• 16:09
  Speaker 8: It's who you are as a business, so it's your
• 16:12
  Speaker 8: whole culture.
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: The thing that's less scary is we talk.
• 16:16
  Speaker 8: A lot about what we have to learn from First
• 16:19
  Speaker 8: Nations wisdom. Now, if there's anything that we can learn
• 16:25
  Speaker 8: from First Nations people, it's about inclusion and belonging. They've
• 16:31
  Speaker 8: been doing it for tens of thousands of years. One
• 16:35
  Speaker 8: of our seven steps is about Aboriginal kinship and we
• 16:40
  Speaker 8: do an exercise where everyone is given a skin name.
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: So Auntie mind, you just want to explain what skin is.
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: So right, across Australia, all of the nations were divided
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: into kinship groups. The term we use in Northern Australia
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: is skin ski. There are its equivalents in the southern areas.
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: For instance, in New South Wales the term used to
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: be meat meat, so when people met up with each other,
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: they would ask what's your meat, meaning what's your skin,
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: So people would say, oh, it's possum or kangaroo or koala.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: So that everybody's divided into skin groups, and each skin group, well,
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: we're all related to each other, but has a particular
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: relationship with another group in that society. It's a bit
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: like having star signs. I suppose that there are some
• 17:29
  Speaker 6: star signs that are compatible with others. Skin groups determine
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: who you can marry, for instance, and so forth, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: sets out particular obligations to each other right across the country. Now,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: how many skin groups there were different according to the nations.
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: The one that we teach in our Googoes system has
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: eight skin groups, some have four, six, eight, sixteen, thirty
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: two and so forth, sixty four or one of the
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: highest groups in the Northern territory. So that's what skin is.
• 18:02
  Speaker 8: In this exercise, everyone's given the skin name. We explain
• 18:05
  Speaker 8: all the different relationships it turns into a lot of
• 18:08
  Speaker 8: fun when people have got to run around and find
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: all their elos and we explain the different connections, so
• 18:15
  Speaker 8: we actually use strings, so there's this beautiful web of connections.
• 18:20
  Speaker 8: And then when we talk about the impact of colonization,
• 18:23
  Speaker 8: we literally go through and save those connections with scissors,
• 18:26
  Speaker 8: and it's just like there's gaps in the room, like
• 18:29
  Speaker 8: the grief and the disconnection is palpable.
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: Then after going through this.
• 18:34
  Speaker 8: Whole activity and explaining the extended Aboriginal families how inclusive
• 18:39
  Speaker 8: they are, we ask people to think, you know, what
• 18:42
  Speaker 8: are their insights from this activity, And the main insults
• 18:45
  Speaker 8: are that you know, everyone's connected, you feel valued, you belong,
• 18:50
  Speaker 8: you have a role, you're clear on your role, and
• 18:53
  Speaker 8: there's this beautiful web of care in this kinship system.
• 18:57
  Speaker 8: And then we're like, okay, that's fantastic. So how you're
• 19:00
  Speaker 8: going to apply that to your own self and your
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: own leadership and the culture in the workplace. So circling
• 19:07
  Speaker 8: back to your original question, well, what's one of the
• 19:10
  Speaker 8: main challenges I think is that as organizations we don't
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: see how holistic this question of inclusivity is. But we
• 19:19
  Speaker 8: have this amazing belief system, this amazing reality that's been
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: successful for tens of thousands of years about belonging an
• 19:29
  Speaker 8: inclusion It's not just a pahr buzzword in this system.
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: There's a model there for us to learn from.
• 19:36
  Speaker 8: Now, what stands out from that model for me, it's
• 19:39
  Speaker 8: human needs that we all share.
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: If this need to feel that you belong in.
• 19:45
  Speaker 8: The workplaces, you need to be able to express yourself
• 19:47
  Speaker 8: in the workplace. So in that sense, the needs of
• 19:51
  Speaker 8: creating an inclusive workplace are common, They're not that complex.
• 19:56
  Speaker 8: So I think the biggest challenge is seeing that it's
• 19:59
  Speaker 8: holy sting, that it's about your whole organizational culture and
• 20:04
  Speaker 8: it's not something that can be just achieved with one
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: training program tick a box.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: I was going to say that I feel like so
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: many times inclusion programs are just.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Tick box exercises.
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: They fill a couoia, they have a number, and they
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: meet it and they go great, no worries. You know,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: we have hired the right amount of Indigenous Australians and
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: you just go, do you realize how much.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: They have to offer? Do you realize like.
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: The beauty that they bring to your culture, to your
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: environment and you're not taking advantage of that, like you're
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: not making the most of this situation, like it is
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: a privilege, and I think that often it is that
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: tick box exercise to it. It's really sad and it
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: shouldn't be and you're so right, Karlor. It goes beyond that,
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: like we're not making the most of a pre existing
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: format and a pre existing framework of diversity and inclusion
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: and working together and how to exist harm and I
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: just think that's wild that we're not doing that. You
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: can see how confronting it would be for big organizations
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: who basically have no culture and don't do those things.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: It's a big change.
• 21:13
  Speaker 8: So we're talking about transformation some of our clients and
• 21:18
  Speaker 8: one of those, for example, is a you know, not
• 21:20
  Speaker 8: for profit we've worked with for eight years now. They
• 21:23
  Speaker 8: do put all of this team through our programs and
• 21:27
  Speaker 8: it's very evidence based. They've seen major shifts in the organization.
• 21:32
  Speaker 8: There's two big things here we're talking about. One goes
• 21:35
  Speaker 8: back to our vision at Evolve, and that's a kind
• 21:37
  Speaker 8: of more inclusive Australia that celebrates and learns from First
• 21:43
  Speaker 8: Nations wisdom and people's So there's a real emphasis on
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: that we don't come from a deficit approach. We come
• 21:51
  Speaker 8: from a strength based approach.
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: Like what is it? And it's so true, Victoria.
• 21:55
  Speaker 8: Like, we ran a program six years ago and it
• 21:58
  Speaker 8: was called Bull by the Horns, was about leadership and
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: what we as leaders can learn from indigenous wisdom. When
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: we first were promoting that program, we had so many
• 22:08
  Speaker 8: people come to us and say, oh, fantastic, I've got
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: Aboriginal manager. I really want to put them through this program.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: And we're like, wait, what, No, you are point baby,
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: it's you that needs to go through the programs.
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: That's the reality.
• 22:23
  Speaker 8: You know, ninety seven percent of our population is non indigenous,
• 22:27
  Speaker 8: and that's the narrative.
• 22:28
  Speaker 7: You know, we've got something that superior First Nations people.
• 22:32
  Speaker 8: That's their reality that they're always expected to step in
• 22:36
  Speaker 8: and walk in our world. The other piece that's really
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: important to all of this is all of our programs
• 22:43
  Speaker 8: we celebrate First Nations wisdom and culture and we focus
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: on that.
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: But you're learning skills.
• 22:49
  Speaker 8: These skills are generic to all humans and to creating
• 22:54
  Speaker 8: an inclusive workplace, no matter which cultures we're talking about,
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: their generic skills.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I guess I couldn't agree more.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: I feel like so many people just miss the point,
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: even though the point is right there in front of them.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: I want to know, now, how can businesses actually attract, develop,
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: and champion indigenous talent. I feel like you were saying
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: something really good before, Carlor. You said so many times
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: indigenous people are expected to step into our way of
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: living and our way of working when that shouldn't be
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: the expectation. So how can we attract talent that not
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: only adds so much to our culture and so much
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: to our business, but how can we make our environment
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: a place that they want to be.
• 23:39
  Speaker 8: We've just literally finished writing a program on this, haven't
• 23:44
  Speaker 8: we Antima, which we're filming at the moment. So our
• 23:47
  Speaker 8: first program is called the Seven Steps to Practical Reconciliation.
• 23:51
  Speaker 8: The second program is Practical Allyship at Work.
• 23:55
  Speaker 7: We're specifically addressing that question.
• 23:57
  Speaker 8: Yes, the first answer is about creating cultural safety in
• 24:02
  Speaker 8: the workplace, and it's doing all those things that we
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: just talked about, and again really encouraging people not to
• 24:08
  Speaker 8: come at this from a deficit approach. I've got to
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: do this, but just celebrating in how much we can
• 24:15
  Speaker 8: grow as businesses as a country. You know, when we
• 24:19
  Speaker 8: get all these benefits of learning from First Nations people
• 24:22
  Speaker 8: and wisdom. So the first thing is looking at, well,
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: what is the culture of our company? How inclusive and
• 24:29
  Speaker 8: safe is it for a First Nations person to come
• 24:33
  Speaker 8: and work here. We find that the retention rates can
• 24:36
  Speaker 8: be so low for First Nations people because those foundations
• 24:42
  Speaker 8: aren't in place.
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: The workplace is very culturally unsafe.
• 24:45
  Speaker 8: So that's the first place to start if you're really
• 24:47
  Speaker 8: serious about this, is to looking at doing an audit
• 24:51
  Speaker 8: of existing cultural safety. Now that organization that I refer
• 24:56
  Speaker 8: to before our longest partner, they actually came to us
• 25:00
  Speaker 8: evolved to help them do exactly this attract and retain traineeships.
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: Now that was like eight years ago.
• 25:09
  Speaker 8: What we ended up doing with them was the first
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: six years was focused on building cultural safety and competency
• 25:16
  Speaker 8: in the organization because they realized that their trainee ships
• 25:20
  Speaker 8: were failing because there just wasn't that level of cultural
• 25:23
  Speaker 8: safety in the workplace.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And that's hard for them.
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: And I'm not saying that's hard in terms of oh,
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: they've got to do some work. That would be a
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: hard realization to come to that you are not a
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: safe space right now. That would be challenging, but the
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: idea that they've stuck to it and said, no, we're
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: going to continue this. We're going to get you guys in.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: We are changing. That's big, that's impressive.
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: It's massive, and they've just been so genuine about it.
• 25:49
  Speaker 8: We've mentioned cultural change, but on an individual level, we're
• 25:52
  Speaker 8: talking about behavioral change.
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: And that's why everything that.
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: We do is called practical reconciliation, practical ourship because Auntie
• 25:59
  Speaker 8: and I we are very practical. So anything you do
• 26:02
  Speaker 8: with us at Evolve will focus on the practical outcomes.
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: What are the behaviors that we need to change, What
• 26:07
  Speaker 8: are the practical.
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: Things that we can do.
• 26:10
  Speaker 8: You know, anything that you do with us is experiential,
• 26:12
  Speaker 8: so it's a journey of growth. So like we've got
• 26:16
  Speaker 8: lots of case studies of organizations doing this, there's some
• 26:20
  Speaker 8: organizations that we choose not to work with because we
• 26:22
  Speaker 8: can see that it is a ticker box exercise.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Oh God.
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: Where we start with the normally is we've only got
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: three values at Evolve. One is kindness and kindredness, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 8: another one is we are living our allies. And what
• 26:37
  Speaker 8: that means is that we walk our talk. And that's
• 26:40
  Speaker 8: what we ask of organizations, so we usually ask for
• 26:43
  Speaker 8: senior leaders the executive to go through our programs first.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, as it should. Yeah, completely agree. I just
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: want to know through your work in community, do you
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: have a sense of the challenges faced by black owned
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: businesses in a Tralia.
• 27:01
  Speaker 8: I mean, we're majority Indigenous owned and our staff small team,
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: but it's half half half. So I think stereotypes is
• 27:11
  Speaker 8: probably the number one challenge. There are incredible Indigenous businesses
• 27:18
  Speaker 8: out there. Ye're quite diverse and doing amazing things like
• 27:22
  Speaker 8: high complex IT stuff, delivering all sorts of things, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: I think there's still a perception that Indigenous businesses only
• 27:31
  Speaker 8: do Indigenous things, right. It it's brilliant to support allyship,
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: to support reconciliation, it's bringing to buy black and by
• 27:41
  Speaker 8: presence from Indigenous businesses.
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: That's only a small thing. Now, if you in your
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: business need to get your air conditioning done in the building,
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: or you need the building painted, have a look and
• 27:56
  Speaker 7: see if there's an Indigenous business doing that. There's a
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: lot of Indigenous businesses in this service industry, in the
• 28:01
  Speaker 7: construction industry, facility management, so not just.
• 28:04
  Speaker 8: In cultural related things. Yeah, so I'd say that's one
• 28:09
  Speaker 8: big challenge Anti money, yeah, absolutely, and supply Nation. It's
• 28:13
  Speaker 8: the organization to go to to find out what businesses
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: are available. They have a list of providers that they
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: can supply to you. Some of the states have indigenous
• 28:24
  Speaker 8: Chambers of Commerce, so for instance, we're a member of
• 28:27
  Speaker 8: the New South Wales in Bridge, an organization Chamber of
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: Commerce and they've been absolutely very helpful to us as well.
• 28:35
  Speaker 8: We were very excited this year for Evolved when the
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: National Telstra Best Business Award for Building Community we were
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: finalists in two categories, Building Communities and Indigenous Excellence.
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: Excellence and we were just so thrilled to win Building
• 28:54
  Speaker 7: Communities because it's like.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: That's what we're about.
• 28:57
  Speaker 7: Yes, they got us the winner last year.
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: So in the Indigenous Excellence category is a business in
• 29:04
  Speaker 8: Western Australia that specializes in geographic information systems, so just
• 29:09
  Speaker 8: like you know, putting it out there that it's different
• 29:12
  Speaker 8: things and they went on to win.
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: There's the winner of the winners nationally.
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: So for this year, I.
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: Think there was over twenty thousand entrants and it's small
• 29:22
  Speaker 8: and medium businesses, so medium businesses can have over one
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: hundred million dollar turnover I can tell you Evolve is not.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Doing Oh again, no, she's on the money isn't either.
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: We're on the WAM and they one that being open
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: to Indigenous businesses doing a whole range of things and
• 29:39
  Speaker 8: maybe having a look at what's available in indigenous businesses
• 29:43
  Speaker 8: first when you're buying something.
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: And you mentioned before Andy Vanya supply Nation, So I
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: want to just flag that now, put that in the
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: show notes. That is a resource that we are able
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: to go to to find indigenous essentially workers across the board.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: So if we need someone to do some work, we
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: can go there, check first, and then go outside of that.
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: And I think that that's actually really helpful because a
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: lot of the time we'll say things like oh yeah,
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: look for this first, but let's be honest. Sometimes we're like, well,
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know where to look. And I mentioned just
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: google Indigenous painter, Indigenous you know builder. And I think
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: that having these resources means that we can actually go
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: all right, well, I know that I can go there
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: and find the right resource, And I think that that's
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: really practical and helpful. How else can we as consumers
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: show up for black businesses?
• 30:36
  Speaker 8: So buying black, we put out resources at Evolve each
• 30:39
  Speaker 8: you and we'll share with you, you know, the places to
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: go to find out certified Indigenous businesses. On social media too,
• 30:47
  Speaker 8: there's a lot of groups popping up that I find
• 30:50
  Speaker 8: quite useful, and you can join those as an ally,
• 30:53
  Speaker 8: Like there's one on Facebook that I'm part of now
• 30:55
  Speaker 8: and it's for Indigenous businesses to promote what they're doing.
• 31:01
  Speaker 8: The idea of that is that non Indigenous people like
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: myself can join that and be across. And this is
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: fairly informal, so it's for new businesses that might not
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: have gone through all the formal steps yet, but all
• 31:12
  Speaker 8: sorts of things.
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: I think just start with some practical things.
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: I think, well, okay, you know there's ten birthdays I
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: buy for. I'm going to have a girl at two
• 31:21
  Speaker 8: of those, buying something from an Indigenous business. Start where
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: it's a bit easier, Like when I've said that Indigenous
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: businesses do all sorts of things, maybe you might want
• 31:29
  Speaker 8: to start at some of the things that are a
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: bit simpler, like obvious things like gifts. A lot of
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: people told us Anti Manya's children's.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: Book, Oh I was telling you that off air like
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: Seasons is one of my favorite books. I know my
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: son is only what ten weeks old at this point
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: in time, and yeah, so like he hasn't fully engaged.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: But it's one of my favorite books to read him.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: And you know, if it's my favorite, it's going to
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: have to become his favorite. But that is a beautiful
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: resource that you can give to children. And I feel
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: like kids they connect even deeper than we can as
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: adults who you know, are trying to reconnect like kids
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: automatically get it. It's crazy how intelligent and smart and
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: respectful they are from the get go. I feel like
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: a lot of things that they learn and that they
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: express as adults are learned behaviors, and that's really sad.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: So I think start from when they're tiny and go
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: from there.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Completely agree exactly.
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: So a lot of people did buy that book for
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: Christmas as well this year.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Genius.
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: I had yours on pre order for ages Auntie Manya,
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: and then when it arrived, I was shocked.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, it's here finally.
• 32:36
  Speaker 8: The practical thing people can do whenever they buy from
• 32:39
  Speaker 8: an indigenous business is to share that we loved when
• 32:42
  Speaker 8: we saw people with photos, for example with Auntie Manya's
• 32:46
  Speaker 8: book and they put it on social media.
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: What's been really lovely.
• 32:50
  Speaker 8: Now is we're getting a lot of preschools. They're doing
• 32:52
  Speaker 8: whole projects based on this book. But if you were
• 32:55
  Speaker 8: to buy something wearable or even.
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: Sheets, lately, I've been buying all my linen in the
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: indigenous designs. But take a photo of that, share it
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: if you're on social media, share on social media, or
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: if you really liked it, share it with your friends. Hey,
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: I bought this, and you know you might want to
• 33:10
  Speaker 7: think about something like this, So let's get the message
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: out there.
• 33:13
  Speaker 8: That's a really practical way everyone can support indigenous businesses.
• 33:17
  Speaker 8: I think that what you do after you've bought it
• 33:19
  Speaker 8: is probably as important as it's the act of buying it.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, no, I agree.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: I actually I think that's funny that you say sheets
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: color because I recently had a baby. Not to keep
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: bringing that up, but Harvey was born. And when you
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: have a baby in Victoria, and I'm sure it's the
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: same in every other state, they have some type of.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Like baby bonus.
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: And so for your first baby, they send you home
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: with a baby bag and I'll send you a picture.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: But inside the baby bag was this beautiful, like Muslim
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: rap for Harvey and like everyone gets the same one,
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: and it's got the most beautiful indigenous print on there
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: of like kangaroos and little footsteps and I am obsessed
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: with it.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: It's like my favorite wrap.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: And the second I got it, I was like, Ani
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: Manya would love this, Like this is perfect and it's
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: just these beautiful colors and you know when you just go,
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: I wish this was something that if I had walked into,
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: like pure Baby, it was just on the shelves for
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: me to purchase because it's just so nice to go.
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: This feels connected. But also, let's be honest, the artwork
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: is stunning. Why aren't we buying more of it?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I completely agree.
• 34:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah, actually you'll have a field day with little Harvey.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 34:28
  Speaker 8: There's so many beautiful products for babies.
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: Now.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Just shifting kys a little bit. I want to know
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: how have things changed for Evolve after last year's referendum.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, big question? Next going hard.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: We're talking about baby blankets and you're like, yes, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: I want to know about them.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Let's schedule the nitty gritty.
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, the referendum was huge.
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: I think we did like fifty online yarning, webinars to
• 34:53
  Speaker 8: different organizations about it at the time and public.
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: It was devastating the result.
• 35:02
  Speaker 8: And so what we didn't evolve is we allowed.
• 35:06
  Speaker 7: People space for grieving. You know, everyone grieves differently.
• 35:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and I know many Indigenous organizations chose to have
• 35:15
  Speaker 8: a period of grieving or.
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: Sorry business at evolved.
• 35:20
  Speaker 8: We decided to go straight to action because that's how
• 35:23
  Speaker 8: we processed it well.
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: We particularly didn't want to lose sight of the fact
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: that how many people can vote.
• 35:28
  Speaker 7: Over six million people voted voltag.
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: Yes, and to not lose sight of that, like that
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: was goodwill.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: That's special. It's not enough, but that is special.
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And we thought that's really significant and we don't
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: want to lose that. And so we came out with
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: a pledge soon after the Allied Pledge asking people to
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: take the pledge to continue to show up for First
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: Nations Peoples. Over three thousand people pledge. So we will
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: definitely provide the link for that pledge.
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: Oh yes, please, We'll put it in the show notes.
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: And I think that that is really really important knowing
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: our community. Maybe we could double that three thousand.
• 36:05
  Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, And so in terms of the demand and
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: how it's affected things.
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: It's increased demand if anything.
• 36:12
  Speaker 8: So it's highlighted the importance of this conversation to continue and.
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: The role of allies.
• 36:19
  Speaker 8: It's even further galvanized our allied community. Yes, that's why
• 36:23
  Speaker 8: we didn't want to stop, because we knew people were
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: going to come to us and say where did we
• 36:26
  Speaker 8: go and what's next?
• 36:28
  Speaker 7: We don't want to stop here.
• 36:30
  Speaker 8: So it's actually, in an odd way, I don't think
• 36:33
  Speaker 8: the desire, the fuel, the momentum for change has been stopped.
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: If anything, it's probably increased.
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: That's really good to hear, actually, because it really was devastating.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: It just kind of made you realize like you're kind
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: of living in your own little bubble. Sometimes you're like, oh,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: everyone around me is an ally, everyone around me supports yes,
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: and how many realize it's not the case is really devastating.
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I found that very confronting, as somebody who you
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: know was the hardest of yes is. I just assumed
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: everybody else was too, because like the people that I
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: surround myself with were unequivocally yes as well, and so
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: it was kind of like, well, obviously it's going to
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: be yes, Like you know, Beck and I would talk
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: about it, talk about with our producers, I talk about
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: with my friends and my family, and not one person
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: even expressed that no was even an option, And so
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: I think when it came back negatively, I was just like, Wow,
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: I am so privileged to live in a.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Bubble that is a yes bubble, but there.
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: Are still so many people who don't understand, so many
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: people who don't have that privilege, and there's clearly so
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: much work to do that it made me really think
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: about how much we need to step up as allies
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: and stop speaking just to our bubbles and start speaking
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: outside of that and start going wow, like, you know,
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: just because it's not a problem that I see every
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: day because I'm not experiencing it, and you know, the
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: Indigenous friends that I have, you know, one of one, like,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: it's not something that we discussed because we're all just like, well,
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: we're on same page, right, Like, how do we expand
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: that outside of the conversations that we're having. And I
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: guess that's why it's so important that you know, Beck
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: and I use She's on the money as a voice
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: for hopeful change and as a voice to educate us,
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: because the more of us that talk about it, the
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: more change that can be facilitated. And sadly, it doesn't
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: matter how much money is thrown at something like this.
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: You can't just put money in people's mouths and hope
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: that they're going to change their mindset. There's so much
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: of a shift that needs to happen that's mental, and
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: so much of a shift that needs to happen that's
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: about inclusivity. It's not actually just about you know, buying
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: black and that's supportive, but it's not just that.
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: And I think it's reinforced by this year's message for
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: Reconciliation Week. It's now more than ever we need your
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: support and you know, given the results of a referendum
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: and moving forward, we.
• 38:57
  Speaker 7: Would never be negative about people that voted no. At evolved.
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: We have a really simple three step approach to allyship, reflect,
• 39:07
  Speaker 8: you know, identify what's the heart of the issue, relate,
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: put yourself in the other person's shoes, and reconcile, find
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: a way forward together. Everything in life is a mutual
• 39:18
  Speaker 8: learning opportunity. For example, if someone said something to me
• 39:22
  Speaker 8: that I thought was racist, I would never do anything
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: to suggest or even think that I know better or
• 39:28
  Speaker 8: to make that person feel strong or shame, blame or guilt.
• 39:33
  Speaker 8: It's a mutual learning opportunity if the other person's open
• 39:36
  Speaker 8: to it. Yes, this is a growth point for the country.
• 39:39
  Speaker 8: So we certainly need to have those conversations. We need
• 39:42
  Speaker 8: to understand why people voted no, and continue to have
• 39:45
  Speaker 8: those conversations, exploring each other's different experiences and perspectives.
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: Without making one right or wrong.
• 39:54
  Speaker 8: I wasn't in a bubble. I kept putting up signs and.
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: They kept getting vandalone.
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: That's disgusting, honestly, Like it's not even just disappointed, it's
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: actually disgusting, Like it's such a lack of understanding, the compassion.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: And empathy and all these things like why would you
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: do that?
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: And irrespective of what was on your sign, like, let
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: people have their opinions, let people have their voice.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: They deserve that.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: It doesn't matter if you put a sign up that
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: said my favorite color is pink, and then I'm jumping
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: up and down and being like, but I like green,
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: Like you can have your choice.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: But it's all about education, right it is.
• 40:34
  Speaker 8: So in that case, I did apply the three hours.
• 40:36
  Speaker 8: I did write a piece offering to meet this person.
• 40:40
  Speaker 8: I'd love to meet you. I'd love to buy you
• 40:42
  Speaker 8: some nose signs.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: You can have your little opinion. Absolutely that makes you
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: a bigger person than me.
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: Color I don't know about that.
• 40:50
  Speaker 8: Then someone commented, which I didn't know what it meant
• 40:53
  Speaker 8: to virtue signaling, No, which I discovered means that you're
• 40:59
  Speaker 8: just doing something to make yourself look good. And that's
• 41:02
  Speaker 8: another big conversation we have around work. But you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: calling something work or someone virtue signaling, they're just ways
• 41:08
  Speaker 8: of shutting down a conversation.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you.
• 41:12
  Speaker 8: Know, I would have loved to have talked more about
• 41:15
  Speaker 8: how was I virtue signaling?
• 41:17
  Speaker 7: Let me understand that.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: And also I think that usually virtue signaling is when
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: you say, for example, you're not actually an ally and
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: you're not actually wanting to vote yes, but you just
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: say you are to look good.
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: This is kind of different, like a misdirected comment. Yeah,
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: this is absolutely no way someone like you was too Signalingly.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: You're actively putting yourself in a very uncomfortable spot. You're
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: probably quite vulnerable and going to have your feelings talking
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: to someone who is seemingly aggressively against everything that you
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: stand for. And so I think that's really beautiful what
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: you're doing. I think that's a really amazing way to
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: go about it. So virtue signaling, I absolutely not.
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: We'll be like, no, that's not not happened, no sit down.
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: I think it's a lack of education on their part.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: Even using the term virtue signaling to somebody like you,
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: you'd be like, do you realize what that means? I
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: don't think you've directed this in the right way completely.
• 42:10
  Speaker 8: It was a mutual learning opportunity. Like I said, I
• 42:12
  Speaker 8: didn't actually know what that meant.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: You're too kind.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: You accepted it and said wow, okay, well I will
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: take that on board, and sometimes you have to say
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: absolutely not, well that's right.
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: Being an ally, it's so important to learn how to
• 42:25
  Speaker 8: be open to feedback, in this case from First Nations people,
• 42:30
  Speaker 8: and to learn from your own mistakes. Also important is
• 42:33
  Speaker 8: self care. When we're talking about interrupting racism, we don't
• 42:36
  Speaker 8: suggest you do it in every situation. You know, it's
• 42:39
  Speaker 8: got to be a situation that's safe for you.
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: As an ally. You've still got to look after yourself.
• 42:43
  Speaker 8: For us, non Indigenous Allies at Evolve during the Voice
• 42:48
  Speaker 8: twenty sixth of January is saying where can we step
• 42:51
  Speaker 8: up and take the cultural load of Auntie Mania and
• 42:55
  Speaker 8: our first Nation team members.
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: That's huge. But even through the twenty sixth of January
• 43:01
  Speaker 7: this year, even as.
• 43:03
  Speaker 8: A non Indigenous ally and director of Evolve, I had
• 43:06
  Speaker 8: to step back a bit too, you know, I had
• 43:07
  Speaker 8: to realize my limits around self care. Some of the
• 43:11
  Speaker 8: commentary on the social media on our posts around the
• 43:14
  Speaker 8: twenty sixth January was really bad. It was really hurtful.
• 43:18
  Speaker 8: So I didn't engage in that either. Fortunately we've got
• 43:23
  Speaker 8: team members that did.
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: I was about to ask, how are you guys managing that?
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: Because you need to keep your cups full so you
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: can continue to pour from them, and stuff like that
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: just eats away at you. And you know, you and
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: I could sit down and talk about how, you know,
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: obviously hurt people, hurt people, and not kind people make
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: comments like that online. I mean, I don't think any
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: one of us in this conversation right now would ever
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: comment on anybody's appearance or what they're doing or how.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: They're doing it.
• 43:54
  Speaker 5: We just go, that's absolutely gross, Like that's just not
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: who we are or the types of people that we are,
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: and the type of person that would past comment like
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: that online, you go, there must be something more going on.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: But that's such a level of emotional.
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: Energy that you just don't have when our cause is
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: so much bigger. So I was about to ask, do
• 44:13
  Speaker 5: you have a team that takes that away and hides
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: that from you so that you don't have to deal
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: with that burden.
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: My team actually goes through my TikTok and removes all
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: the negative comments before I can even get to look
• 44:25
  Speaker 6: at them. That's one great thing.
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we do.
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: And also, you know with the team too, going back
• 44:32
  Speaker 8: to our three core values you know about kindness, is
• 44:35
  Speaker 8: we also look at ways that we support each other
• 44:39
  Speaker 8: as well. But they really stepped up. They always step
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: up our team in terms of trying to decrease the
• 44:45
  Speaker 8: impact of that cultural load and cultural burden. And that's
• 44:49
  Speaker 8: another whole module that we teach around. When you're talking
• 44:51
  Speaker 8: about attraction and retention in the workplace, we talk a
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: lot about what this thing is called cultural load. You know,
• 44:59
  Speaker 8: that's a really important part of cultural safety in a
• 45:02
  Speaker 8: workplace is knowing what cultural load is and addressing it.
• 45:06
  Speaker 8: So an example of cultural load would be always going
• 45:10
  Speaker 8: to your first nation staff member and asking them to
• 45:14
  Speaker 8: organize something for NATOP week, for example, they might.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Be the accountant, completely unrelated.
• 45:20
  Speaker 8: That's an example of what we mean by cultural loads.
• 45:23
  Speaker 8: You know, it's not enumerated, it's just assumed. So something
• 45:27
  Speaker 8: to be aware as an ally where we always start
• 45:30
  Speaker 8: the journey of our lies.
• 45:31
  Speaker 7: Well, I started in two places. One is craving for
• 45:34
  Speaker 7: a connection.
• 45:35
  Speaker 8: With the First Nations person and this was at a
• 45:37
  Speaker 8: very young age, at a young age, being very confused
• 45:40
  Speaker 8: about the absence of Aboriginal people and culture in everything
• 45:45
  Speaker 8: in my schooling, in my community. This is back in
• 45:48
  Speaker 8: the seventies. And then as I got older, realizing oh,
• 45:53
  Speaker 8: there's more people like me, and also I feel quite
• 45:57
  Speaker 8: scared about saying or doing the wrong thing. I don't
• 45:59
  Speaker 8: know where to start. And then we've discovered, you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: there's so many more people like this in life, and
• 46:07
  Speaker 8: that's why we make our learning environments free of blame,
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: shame or guilt, and we do focus on the practical,
• 46:14
  Speaker 8: simple things places you can start.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: I feel like your community is very much there's no
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: such thing as a silly question community. And that might
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: seem very funny to say, but you really do walk
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: the walk in that aspect. Like I mentioned earlier that
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: you know, obviously Auntie Manya. I'm friends with you on
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: TikTok and I love seeing your content. But I feel
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: like I've seen a shift in the way people ask questions,
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: and they're now saying, oh, actually, I've always.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Wondered, is this okay for me to say?
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Am I allowed to call you auntie Manya? And you're like,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: of course you are, Like are you allowed to do this?
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: What does that look?
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: How does this work? And I think that sometimes we.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: Actually have to strip it back to really bear basics
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: and go, well, why do we call you Aunti manya?
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: How does that work?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: What cultural significance does that have? I'm not indigenous? Am
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: I allowed to refer to you that way? And I
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: think that it's just broken down in such a beautiful
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: way that it becomes part of our language and it
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: becomes second nature. And I think that that's what you know,
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: I'm hoping for, and I'm assuming you guys are hoping
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: for that. It just becomes oh, yeah, of course we
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: know what that means. But right now we don't live
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: in that privileged world of knowing, and you're extending that
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: privilege to us to teach us, and I think that
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: that deserves a lot more respect than it gets because
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: that would be another massive cultural load being asked the
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: same questions over and over being us. You know, when
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: reconciliation happened fifty webinars, like.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: My gosh, you would have been exhausted.
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: And I see why you're the gold standard of why
• 47:45
  Speaker 5: people want to learn from you, but my gosh, you
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: would have been so tired.
• 47:50
  Speaker 8: We're doing a lot and we have a great team,
• 47:53
  Speaker 8: and we're expanding that team, so we actually have a
• 47:55
  Speaker 8: whole pathway that people become a credited ally US and
• 48:01
  Speaker 8: from that, we also have a select group of people
• 48:04
  Speaker 8: that become a credited facilitators, so we have facilitators in
• 48:08
  Speaker 8: each state and also facilitators doing online. So Auntie and
• 48:12
  Speaker 8: I are pretty much only these days doing keynote speaking
• 48:18
  Speaker 8: and the larger webinars. So we have a really great, sustainable,
• 48:23
  Speaker 8: growing family of people that can do this work.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I adore it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: I know I have taken up a lot of your
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: time today and I am very very grateful for it.
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: To be able to share you guys with our community
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: is an absolute privilege. So last question, I promise but
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: what kinds of resources can we as a community engage
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: you guys in on. We know that you do keynotes speaking,
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: we know that you go into organizations, but what else
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: I guess what can we engage with you on?
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 48:53
  Speaker 8: So many ways and this bold obsession for ten million
• 48:57
  Speaker 8: more allies. There's so many ways that you can engage
• 49:00
  Speaker 8: with us.
• 49:02
  Speaker 7: So many free resources on our website, which the link.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Will be there, absolutely it will be.
• 49:07
  Speaker 8: We've talked about ask any question. That is our philosophy evolved.
• 49:11
  Speaker 8: There's no such thing as a silly question. So jump online.
• 49:14
  Speaker 8: You can ask anything on Ask Auntie or ask an
• 49:17
  Speaker 8: ally and we do a short video response.
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: There's our books, they're in all the formats.
• 49:25
  Speaker 8: There's practical reconciliation, which takes you through those seven steps
• 49:28
  Speaker 8: we talked about. There's Auntie's children's book series Ask Auntie,
• 49:34
  Speaker 8: there's Auntie's book Journey into dream Time.
• 49:37
  Speaker 7: You can listen to them on audible or get the
• 49:41
  Speaker 7: e book. They're in libraries.
• 49:42
  Speaker 8: Apparently you can borrow them for free at libraries as
• 49:45
  Speaker 8: well as an individual.
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: You can become an accredited ally.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: That's really cool.
• 49:51
  Speaker 7: I think we've got.
• 49:52
  Speaker 8: Over five hundred accredited allies since we've launched that, and
• 49:55
  Speaker 8: that's not just learning about these competencies and you need
• 49:59
  Speaker 8: to demonstrate competencies. That's quite a longer deeper program. Any
• 50:04
  Speaker 8: touch point you have with us, you're also joining a community,
• 50:08
  Speaker 8: So our vision is of striving communities of allies across Australia.
• 50:12
  Speaker 8: You can jump online and do our adapted privileged walk activity.
• 50:16
  Speaker 8: That's a really important activity to do as allyship is
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: understanding your own privilege.
• 50:21
  Speaker 7: There's a diversity quiz.
• 50:23
  Speaker 8: We have a downloadable calendar with significant dates. We collaborate
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: with Suretta and incredible indigenous artists, beautiful artwork on that.
• 50:33
  Speaker 8: So we just love yarning with people, don't we yourself?
• 50:37
  Speaker 8: Please reach out to us.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: I don't for our listeners and also for myself even
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: because I've really had the privilege of meeting you both
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: today and it's been just genuinely really amazing.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Where can we find to you? Like, what do you
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: have like TikTok TikTok?
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: No?
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: You know I have?
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: You have anti monus? So where can we find you?
• 51:01
  Speaker 8: Probably the main ways through our website so evolves with
• 51:05
  Speaker 8: then s on the end dot com dot are you
• 51:08
  Speaker 8: otherwise we're on social LinkedIn. We do a lot on
• 51:12
  Speaker 8: We have a lot of connections on LinkedIn. Auntie Manya
• 51:15
  Speaker 8: is a leading voice on LinkedIn. In our organizational structure,
• 51:21
  Speaker 8: they've got these co director and general manager.
• 51:24
  Speaker 7: And Anti Manya is talent.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, nobody is surprised she's the talent.
• 51:32
  Speaker 7: I like that.
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: How does that make you feel, Anti Manya or are
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: you just like obviously anyway here I am, I adore it.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: We can find you literally on any social switch. I love.
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: Will put obviously a whole heap of resources into the
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: show notes where you can find Karla and Anti Manya.
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: We're also going to put some links to Supply Nation
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: and the Indigenous Chamber of Commerce. You know, I want
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: to pop in a link to the ally prilege. Obviously
• 51:59
  Speaker 5: you've had over three thousand people sign up to that,
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: but I think it can be way more than that,
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: and you know, information on how to become an accredited
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: ally as well. There's just so much of you guys
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: to share, and I'm so grateful that we got the
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: opportunity to have you on the podcast again. It won't
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: be the last time, but unfortunately we have run out
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: of time today, so again, really appreciate it. I know
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: that our community gets a lot out of you know,
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: our yarn's on the pod.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: It's one of my favorite things. So thank you and
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: I can't wait to cross paths with you again very soon.
• 52:30
  Speaker 7: We say go.
• 52:32
  Speaker 8: Well, you did mention about potentially doubling our pledge through
• 52:36
  Speaker 8: your allied community, so that's very exciting.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, we're going to work on it. We're going to
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: be across it, especially this week. Thank you guys so much.
• 52:53
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• 52:55
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  Speaker 9: Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are authorized representatives
• 53:18
  Speaker 9: of Money Sherpa Pty Ltd a BN three two one
• 53:22
  Speaker 9: six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four
• 53:26
  Speaker 9: five one two eight nine