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How Trance Shapes Our Lives · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
0:03
The three of us,
0:05
Yulia,
0:05
Polina,
0:06
and Irina,
0:07
are exploring what Life in Flow and Flow in Life is.
0:12
Join us as we experiment,
0:15
test our diverse hypotheses,
0:17
and have fun in the process.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Will we find an answer?
0:23
SPEAKER_00: This isn't just an intellectual discussion.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: We're co-creating a shared field beyond words.
0:30
We're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that the
0:35
conversation itself
0:36
SPEAKER_00: becomes a group flow experience.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: And we invite you to become an active participant in this experiment.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: There will be pauses and moments of silence.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: We leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Go beyond the intellectual information.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Listen with your whole body.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process.
1:05
Share with us what reveals itself in the space where mind,
1:11
body,
1:12
and energy flow together.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of Life in Flow podcast.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: And today we're gonna discuss an exciting topic
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, most of the topics that we discuss are exciting.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: But this one is one of my favorites.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's about trans.
1:39
SPEAKER_01: And the question we're going to be discussing,
1:42
SPEAKER_01: not necessarily finding an answer to,
1:45
SPEAKER_01: but the question is,
1:47
SPEAKER_01: how does trans shape our lives?
1:52
SPEAKER_01: And in general, I think the answer is, yes, it does shape our lives.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: But whatever it is that's happening,
2:00
SPEAKER_01: going to talk about.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: And with me today are Polina.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Hello.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: And Irina.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Hello.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And it is me, Yulia.
2:15
And just a couple of words why I chose trans as today's topic
2:22
and this question.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: It's because, well, first of all, this is the word that we often hear
2:30
us saying while discussing this podcast production or just the
2:36
way we interact or
2:37
SPEAKER_01: go through life.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I would say maybe it's one of the top 10 most frequent words that we use.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Some of us more than others.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And most of us really love trans states.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Maybe some not
2:58
enthusiastic about it we also devise strategies for consciously
3:05
getting into trance
3:07
and the same time we know that this is a kind of a charged
3:11
topic because in the
3:13
SPEAKER_01: western world the word trance is sometimes kind of said with some fear
3:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe it's too weird or not for educated people.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: There is this negative shadow, I think, that this word is carrying.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: So we're going to see today comes up.
3:41
And it's usually going to start with a game just to warm us up
3:47
and have some fun.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And this is how the game is going to go.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I have a word that I'm going to share in a minute.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: Polina and Irina have no clue what the word is going to be.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: And we're going to then share micro-stories,
4:08
SPEAKER_01: specific somatic stories that this word evokes in us,
4:15
SPEAKER_01: whatever our associations are.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And we're going to do one circle, maybe two.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And here we go.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: The word that I want you to come up with stories for is nectar.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Can I bring magic into the game?
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Of course, all the magic, all the magic.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, I don't know how nectar is coming into the play here.
5:16
But the first thing that I saw when I raised my eyes after
5:28
hearing the word on my
5:32
SPEAKER_02: altar,
5:33
SPEAKER_02: and it's just all the images of my trance states,
5:41
SPEAKER_02: of my communication with different deities,
5:47
came to me and it's all about how to describe it in senses you
5:55
know to make it
5:56
SPEAKER_02: sensory just imagine that you have um
6:10
like the current of electricity going through you,
6:15
and it makes you very,
6:17
very powerful.
6:18
So this is probably the closest I can choose in this sensor
6:26
sense to describe this
6:31
SPEAKER_02: sensation of being in contact with the gut.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And I guess it came to my mind in relationship with the nectar,
6:37
SPEAKER_02: because nectar is the drink of the gods.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: So here it is.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: The drink of the gods, yeah.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: That's really funny, Ir, because
6:56
SPEAKER_00: At first, I was like, I have no idea what stories I have with nectar.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: And then when I opened up, I was like, oh, the gods.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, gods and nectar, what is that?
7:08
I wonder if I was already picking up on what your story was
7:13
going to be because I
7:15
SPEAKER_00: don't know where the story comes from.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: It was so weird.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there is something about nectar and gods and life.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: And I don't have a specific story.
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The only story I can think of is how the birds drink the nectar
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from the flowers in
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SPEAKER_00: front of my window and the bees.
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SPEAKER_00: You can actually see that.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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because there's some cool flowers here and they come every day
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and they stick their
7:51
SPEAKER_00: long...
7:51
Like the Calibrias have the long noses and they stick them in
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there and the other
7:56
SPEAKER_00: birds.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: And actually, they drink something too from the leaves, I think water.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: So...
8:02
I'm constantly seeing,
8:04
I guess,
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well,
8:06
yeah,
8:07
the nectar being consumed on a daily basis.
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SPEAKER_00: That's my story.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: The consumption of nectar.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is a cool story, actually.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: Like the literal consumption of nectar.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: The story, I'm going to just share two micro stories.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: The first one,
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I also tried not to think about it as I had the word and I knew
8:33
the word is not
8:34
SPEAKER_01: that easy.
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But the first one that comes to mind is the first time in my
8:39
Soviet childhood when
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SPEAKER_01: my mom was able to bring from somewhere mango nectar and like in a can.
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and this was just a real adventure because in my soviet
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childhood i had no clue how
9:03
mango tastes and maybe i've i'd seen it in some movies or
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something and so this was
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SPEAKER_01: like real ritual a real adventure wow mango nectar
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I remember it wasn't a very good nectar because there was so
9:22
much sugar there.
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So I only got a very vague idea about what mango really is
9:30
because it was mostly sugar.
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SPEAKER_01: But anyway, that's one story.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think some of the moments
9:43
that come to mind also like one of them that I already shared
9:49
here from my
9:51
expedition with Wim Hof where we were hyperventilating for five
9:56
days and then
9:58
already during the first day after like three hours of
10:01
hyperventilating and I was
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SPEAKER_01: lying on this floor of an old sanatorium and that was nectar
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I was like, I was swimming in nectar.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my god.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: This is like, oh, this is real nectar.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Every life is just sweet and ecstatic.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: And this moment is so rich.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Do we go for another round?
10:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
10:47
Your nectar of Wim Hof reminded me of my first experience in
10:55
Vipassana retreat.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: And I remember the first day.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm rising up from the meditation.
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SPEAKER_02: I don't remember if it was the first meditation.
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SPEAKER_02: Maybe we did a bunch of them already.
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SPEAKER_02: I just remember the girl next to me and I knew that she was new.
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SPEAKER_02: She was a newbie like me.
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SPEAKER_02: And she's just staying there smiling like she's in nirvana.
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SPEAKER_02: She was probably drinking nectar too.
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And I couldn't wait to get up and go out of the room because my
11:36
whole body was aching.
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SPEAKER_02: I needed for the meditation to end.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: And there she was,
11:45
SPEAKER_02: just smiling,
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SPEAKER_02: drinking her nectar,
11:49
SPEAKER_02: marijuana nectar,
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SPEAKER_02: and she was not going to move.
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SPEAKER_02: She was good.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: I was like, it was supposed to be me.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: Where is my marijuana?
12:03
SPEAKER_01: So did you get to drink some nectar at that retreat?
12:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I did.
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SPEAKER_02: But it's a tricky experience of getting there.
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So it was short and almost unrepeatable because there are
12:21
tricks there,
12:22
but it's another story.
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SPEAKER_00: The only thing that keeps coming up for me and my brain is like, oh,
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SPEAKER_00: But it's just there,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: nectar being mother's milk,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: that first milk,
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SPEAKER_00: the really concentrated,
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SPEAKER_00: what is it called,
12:47
SPEAKER_00: you know?
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SPEAKER_00: In Russian.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: I forgot the English word.
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SPEAKER_00: The nectar that the mom produces in the beginning, right?
13:01
SPEAKER_00: That's like colostrum?
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, colostrum.
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SPEAKER_00: The nectar of a human being,
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SPEAKER_00: basically,
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being produced for another human being to be so rich and
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nourishing and supportive
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SPEAKER_00: and life-giving.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
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SPEAKER_00: That's what was coming up for me.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: That is really cool.
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SPEAKER_01: I had never thought about breast milk being an actor, but it totally is.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm having goosebumps.
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SPEAKER_02: Have you heard this thing?
13:43
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, maybe you know if it's true or not, but...
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they talk a lot about it recently at least i come across a lot
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this idea that the
13:54
mother's milk is actually blood i don't know how concentrated
14:00
or blood plasma or
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whatever no i haven't heard anything about mother's milk for a
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long time but i'm
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SPEAKER_01: sure this composition is still
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Partly mysterious, even at this point.
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SPEAKER_02: I would just feel like I tried to look it up quickly in Google,
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SPEAKER_02: and I didn't find any solid sources confirming it.
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SPEAKER_02: So it's still under the question.
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SPEAKER_02: But I came across this idea quite a lot recently.
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SPEAKER_02: OK.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Anyone?
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Anything else needs to be said?
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SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_01: So the reason why I chose this word,
15:01
SPEAKER_01: just to explain myself a little bit,
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SPEAKER_01: is because nectar actually also comes from the same roots as trans.
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SPEAKER_01: And it's nec from necromancy.
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SPEAKER_01: And this is dead, death, right?
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SPEAKER_01: Necromancy is communicating with the dead.
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SPEAKER_01: And tar is from a Sanskrit word that means to cross.
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SPEAKER_01: And this is trance is crossing.
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So nectar is why the gods were drinking this nectar because
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they were kind of like
15:45
SPEAKER_01: crossing into immortality.
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SPEAKER_00: Wow.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a specific kind of nectar.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: So I have to say that I picked up this word and this concept,
16:00
this super beautiful to me concept from my favorite ever
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podcast that's called The
16:05
SPEAKER_01: Emerald because they have a couple of episodes on trance.
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SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, nectar.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: That is so cool.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: So...
16:18
I wonder how that word found its way into her modern day
16:23
language with absolutely
16:24
SPEAKER_00: no vestige of this,
16:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:29
SPEAKER_00: very different concept and definition.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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SPEAKER_00: So strange.
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yeah and yet like when you say nectar it's kind of like i think
16:41
to me it's much
16:42
more than just a sweet drink well at least it's also we know
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that the gods were
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SPEAKER_01: drinking nectar right but there's like this word is somehow quite charged
16:59
SPEAKER_02: I think it has this connotation.
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SPEAKER_02: It's not just sweet drink.
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SPEAKER_02: It's so good that it goes beyond the ordinary.
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SPEAKER_00: And so nourishing and so transformative because of the nourishment,
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SPEAKER_00: because of the elements in it.
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SPEAKER_00: I don't think of it as just something sweet.
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SPEAKER_00: I think of it as something way more than that.
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SPEAKER_00: But not as a passageway into the beyond.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: So then let's go to some questions.
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And I want us to start with us sharing what do we actually
17:48
understand by trance?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: And again, we just to make it clear, we're not aiming here.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: to be scientific or to provide any references.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: This is just our view of the world.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Should I start?
18:12
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
18:16
Well,
18:17
actually,
18:18
my definition is quite simple,
18:20
but it is probably also vague.
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SPEAKER_02: Because for me,
18:27
the trance state is any state different from the ordinary state
18:32
of consciousness.
18:33
The question is how to define the ordinary state of
18:37
consciousness without using any
18:43
SPEAKER_02: scientific terms like brain waves,
18:48
SPEAKER_02: etc.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Because I would say that it's anything that takes us out of this
18:59
SPEAKER_02: business-as-usual functioning of the beta waves of our brains.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: So like the problem-solving, solution-seeking, executive functioning.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: So I guess even just when the default state kicks in, when...
19:23
When we wash the dishes on the autopilot,
19:26
I would say it is already a trans state.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I think for me,
19:34
SPEAKER_00: a trans state,
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I like your definition and the simplicity of it,
19:37
SPEAKER_00: it is an altered state.
19:39
I'm not sure how when you said autopilot,
19:44
I actually,
19:44
an autopilot would not.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: in my understanding,
19:50
SPEAKER_00: put that in the same category as a trans state,
19:52
because I feel like a trans state for me is where I am aware of
19:59
the shift of
20:01
SPEAKER_00: perception and
20:06
It's the opposite of autopilot because there's actually like an
20:08
awareness,
20:09
SPEAKER_00: oh,
20:10
this is now a different functioning or the perception has
20:14
changed and things are
20:16
SPEAKER_00: shifting and there's like a whole thing happening.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's an altered state.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: When you started sharing your definition, I already started feeling it.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I'm starting to lose.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: A full connection to my mental faculties.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: There's something happening.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Here it is.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: How about you, Yul?
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
20:43
SPEAKER_01: I think maybe now,
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Pauline,
20:45
SPEAKER_01: that you are saying mental faculties,
20:47
SPEAKER_01: I think this is the one thing,
20:48
SPEAKER_01: the mental faculties,
20:51
SPEAKER_01: well,
20:51
SPEAKER_01: okay,
20:53
SPEAKER_01: mental from mind,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: and mind is not only about thinking,
20:57
SPEAKER_01: you know,
20:57
SPEAKER_01: but the common sense definition,
21:00
SPEAKER_01: mental faculties means...
21:03
SPEAKER_01: thinking, going back and forth and present in the past.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's kind of like traversing that.
21:18
um because actually yes so traveling traversing um it's also
21:26
the same has the same
21:28
root with with trans or it's like the the prefrontal cortex
21:33
that we adore so much
21:37
SPEAKER_01: and that we spend so much time with kind of like transcending that um
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: and just to...
21:51
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to make this comment at the beginning,
21:53
SPEAKER_01: but I forgot flow from the name of our podcast.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And the state that we're aiming for is also, of course, a trance state.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Full of gamma waves, or at least, like, this is what they're saying.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm, waves.
22:16
yes and and so but it's um yeah you can just recognize that
22:25
state by a change in
22:28
perception or maybe by losing perception right because when we
22:35
like for example
22:37
when we find ourselves crawling instagram reels and all of a
22:43
sudden one hour has
22:44
SPEAKER_01: passed by
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Here you go.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: That is totally trans.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: That is why I was saying,
22:51
SPEAKER_02: we're talking about autopilot,
22:53
SPEAKER_02: that sometimes trans is not about awareness at all.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Totally the opposite.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I could see it from that perspective.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I guess I don't do enough scrolling to really know.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:13
But also when you're washing dishes and you're described that
23:15
state as an autopilot.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is an autopilot aspect to it.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have to consciously think about the washing of the dishes.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And what your hands are doing.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: But there is another state that you are present in in terms of like,
23:31
SPEAKER_00: what are you thinking about or what are you visualizing or.
23:34
But you're right,
23:36
in those instances,
23:37
there might be more of that autopilot function that's on.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, I just mentioned the autopilot because what I really had in mind
23:52
was this like the default brain network state like when you're
24:00
not thinking about
24:02
what you're doing and i think it's the activation of this
24:09
network i think is
24:12
important for trans state because it really like needs to get
24:17
out of the executive
24:18
SPEAKER_02: functioning
24:24
Although it depends also because there are trance states and
24:27
trance states.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: So because if we're talking about the creative trance,
24:32
we might be activating both the executive network and the
24:36
default network.
24:38
But it's definitely still like they're interacting in a
24:42
different way and we're
24:44
SPEAKER_02: finding ourselves in a different mode of being in the world.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: So why...
24:55
like why do we talk about trance state often or like why do we
25:04
try to be in a
25:05
trance state or let's say maybe not generally a trance state or
25:09
for some of us just
25:10
SPEAKER_01: flow state let's just talk about that
25:22
SPEAKER_02: There are so many things to say.
25:25
A teacher of mine,
25:27
Steven Gilligan,
25:32
tends to say that trance is an important element of life.
25:47
a needed element of life and i don't know if like he is saying
25:53
it originally
25:54
because uh lately i have seen other experts saying the same
25:58
thing so i don't know
26:00
SPEAKER_02: who is citing whom or maybe they're cross-pollinating
26:04
But the idea is that if there is a certain quote of the trans
26:13
state that you need
26:14
SPEAKER_02: to experience in your life,
26:16
SPEAKER_02: and if you don't allow for it,
26:19
SPEAKER_02: then the trans will catch up with you.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: And here we get all the dependencies from the alcohol, the drugs.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: social media,
26:33
SPEAKER_02: the scrolling,
26:34
SPEAKER_02: the Gorski,
26:35
SPEAKER_02: like the organism is looking for this,
26:39
SPEAKER_02: just getting out of this executive functioning mode.
26:45
And I think it's because trance state,
26:51
whatever the quality of this trance state,
26:55
it
26:56
SPEAKER_02: It is about really like changing the perception.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: So it changes the filters for which we interact with the reality.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: And I think it is absolutely
27:19
necessary for the life to keep evolving and keep flowing
27:24
because otherwise we're
27:25
just like stuck and life cannot be stuck so i would say the
27:40
trance state is this
27:43
SPEAKER_02: You like mechanism,
27:45
SPEAKER_02: and it's very philosophical,
27:46
SPEAKER_02: I know,
27:47
SPEAKER_02: but it's like this mechanism that allows life to enter this,
27:58
SPEAKER_02: to introduce these elements of flexibility in the function of the system,
28:07
SPEAKER_02: whatever the system is.
28:14
Like a break from rules and from...
28:20
From rules through established patterns,
28:23
I would say.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I guess exactly because of that, because it's the, like...
28:41
SPEAKER_02: the necessary life function for it to be able to perpetuate itself,
28:50
it needs to give to the agent who experienced trans some kind
28:57
of benefits.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: So that's why more often than not, it feels good.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: That's why we're looking for it.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: yeah and that's why when when we do not find it in ways that maybe like
29:23
historically trans was accessible that's why we go where like
29:28
to the to the screens
29:30
for the trans right exactly it's funny because i used to think
29:37
that a trans state
29:38
SPEAKER_00: was synonymous with like
29:41
really altered states through drugs or through mushrooms or
29:45
through some kind of witchery.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: That word has an association to some other types of things.
29:54
But now that we're having this conversation and we're kind of
29:58
bringing it to a more...
30:03
SPEAKER_00: everyday type of shift.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: That's what it sounds like.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: We're just kind of describing it as an everyday type of shift.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: What is this altered state about?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to engage with the concept differently.
30:22
I also started wondering if the ability to access trans states
30:29
or these shifts,
30:32
I wonder if it's become more accessible to us in the here and
30:36
now than it used to
30:38
SPEAKER_00: be in the past.
30:39
And I wonder if that's why the definition used to be more
30:44
synonymous with these
30:45
outrageous experiences where you needed maybe something else to
30:49
alter the state.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: And now we are...
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that we were always able to do this,
30:54
but maybe there's some kind of an access point now that's more
31:00
closer to like this
31:01
SPEAKER_00: physical reality,
31:03
SPEAKER_00: potentially.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: It was just coming up as a question in my head.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Also,
31:11
SPEAKER_00: when I was growing up,
31:12
I don't remember being able to really – maybe it was because I
31:16
wasn't conscious or
31:17
SPEAKER_00: aware of the shift as much or I wasn't paying attention to it,
31:20
SPEAKER_00: but I don't know that I was that able to – as able as now to –
31:26
SPEAKER_00: access trans states,
31:28
SPEAKER_00: like altered states,
31:29
SPEAKER_00: altered sense of consciousness and awareness in the way that I am now.
31:34
So I'm also now wondering maybe it is a function of growing
31:38
your awareness and
31:39
consciousness that allows for maybe not even the creation of
31:47
the altered state,
31:48
SPEAKER_00: but the receiving of it,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: like the being able to track it,
31:52
SPEAKER_00: to be present to it,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: to have a different relationship with it.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's what's coming up for me.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Also, trance is a loaded word.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: And I think more people talk about it today as a state that is exactly,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: as you said,
32:16
SPEAKER_01: is critical,
32:16
SPEAKER_01: actually,
32:17
SPEAKER_01: for every aspect of our health,
32:20
SPEAKER_01: well-being,
32:21
SPEAKER_01: and whatever,
32:24
SPEAKER_01: like normal behavior,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: I guess,
32:27
SPEAKER_01: without addictions and stuff.
32:29
but then like thinking even a couple years ago or trans um and
32:36
thinking about
32:36
whatever my childhood or being in this um circle of rational
32:43
people rational family
32:46
educated it's also it's a little bit like um is the world alive
32:50
i guess topic
32:55
kind of like the baggage that this word that I think it's a
33:00
very beautiful word
33:02
that deserves to be like to be our everyday word yeah I think
33:18
it's very very sadly
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Not there yet.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: I think for me, what is... I think trance is what makes life beautiful.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Trance is what makes,
33:41
SPEAKER_01: well,
33:41
SPEAKER_01: what allows me...
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I think it has a lot to do with this flexibility and evolution,
33:48
SPEAKER_01: because if you think about
33:53
thinking which is quite um like a rigid format fixed or fixated
34:04
on a lot of ideas
34:07
about ourselves and the world then trans states and and not
34:12
every trans state um
34:14
actually is a good one right because we talked about the all
34:19
the screen of mania
34:20
SPEAKER_01: that's going on but the trans states that
34:23
that take you into the extra ordinary and out of this mundane
34:32
thinking,
34:33
overthinking.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I think this is what gives you, it's like a breath of fresh air.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: It's like if it's not there, then what are we living for?
34:49
SPEAKER_01: And now,
34:50
SPEAKER_01: and of course,
34:51
SPEAKER_01: when I'm thinking now to those experiences,
34:53
SPEAKER_01: like peak experiences of trance,
34:57
which was when I was participating in those mushrooms
35:01
psilocybin ceremonies,
35:03
SPEAKER_01: but also with breath,
35:04
SPEAKER_01: you get breath work,
35:05
SPEAKER_01: you get a lot of those.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're so, so beautiful.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: It's like all of a sudden you just again appreciate the world,
35:21
SPEAKER_01: every breath of air,
35:22
SPEAKER_01: every drop of water,
35:25
SPEAKER_01: clouds,
35:27
SPEAKER_01: everything.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: I think exactly I liked
35:39
SPEAKER_02: how you describe it,
35:41
it's really like this passage that trans allow us to cross this
35:45
threshold from
35:46
SPEAKER_02: mundane to the extraordinary.
35:50
And this is exactly the reason why the term is perceived mostly
35:57
as the wuvu,
35:59
because
36:03
Paulina mentioned before that maybe people didn't used to have
36:07
access to the trance
36:09
SPEAKER_02: state before,
36:10
SPEAKER_02: but I think this is exactly the opposite.
36:13
They had a very easy access to the trance state through the
36:19
sacred rituals.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: But because we desacralized our life,
36:26
SPEAKER_02: so in our too rational civilization,
36:30
SPEAKER_02: too rational mentality,
36:33
SPEAKER_02: Everything sacred became this, like, obtained bad reputation.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: That's why we think that you need something very woo-woo,
36:47
SPEAKER_02: like taking a drug,
36:49
SPEAKER_02: a mushroom,
36:50
SPEAKER_02: or extreme religious experience to get into a trance state.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: Whereas...
37:00
really just like when we shift the lens for which we look at it
37:07
again like my
37:09
teacher gives an example that he says that the most typical
37:15
example of the ordinary
37:17
SPEAKER_02: trance state is reading
37:20
When you read a book and you get into this imaginary world,
37:25
you're entering the trance state.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: And he was saying,
37:28
SPEAKER_02: you're like,
37:30
SPEAKER_02: when I learned about it,
37:31
I realized that I spent my whole childhood in trance because I
37:35
was reading books
37:37
SPEAKER_02: all the time.
37:38
And I was listening to him after like,
37:40
okay,
37:42
now I know why I like trance.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, that is the reason why I like reading books.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Wait,
37:50
so now we're kind of saying that trance state is potentially
37:54
something other than a
37:55
SPEAKER_00: rational mind state?
38:04
Is a trance state a state where we are no longer being driven
38:09
by the rational mind?
38:11
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of what I'm starting to hear.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: Again,
38:17
SPEAKER_02: using the definitions of my teacher,
38:20
SPEAKER_02: I think it depends on...
38:21
Because there are different qualities and different gradations
38:25
of this trance
38:25
SPEAKER_02: state.
38:27
So the rational mind definitely doesn't play the same role in
38:32
the trance state as
38:33
SPEAKER_02: it plays in our ordinary mundane functioning mode.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: But it's not necessarily...
38:43
is off so that like depends on the what kind of trans we're
38:48
talking about because
38:49
there are trans states when we're just like there is no any
38:55
rational thinking at
38:56
all it's not present but for example in my work with the uh
39:01
genitive trans you know
39:03
SPEAKER_02: again genitive states this is exactly about like
39:09
expanding your consciousness but at the same time you're
39:14
getting in this state of
39:15
connection when the rational mind and the intuition the body
39:21
and the mind just
39:23
start connecting and relating in a different way so they're
39:26
both present but as you
39:29
SPEAKER_02: said the rational mind does not lead it just plays its role on the equal
39:38
SPEAKER_02: the equal part of all other participants.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Hmm, that's really cool.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're,
39:44
SPEAKER_00: from my perspective,
39:46
SPEAKER_00: we're doing a bit of a reclaiming of this word because I really,
39:51
SPEAKER_00: in my consciousness,
39:52
SPEAKER_00: this word belonged in some weird woo-woo out there category.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And now through this conversation, I'm like, oh, cool.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to be in Trans-State all the time, too.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: I literally lived in books and Skosky, right?
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Like my entire childhood.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: And if I wasn't reading, I was still in my mind still...
40:09
like playing out those visuals i think in a lot of ways um so
40:13
if that is also a
40:14
trance state because it is the conscious state being open to
40:19
other things and you
40:21
know like zooming in and zooming out and other things being
40:24
present then that's
40:25
SPEAKER_00: like really cool i'm really happy that we are having this discussion
40:31
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of also another characteristic,
40:35
SPEAKER_01: I would say,
40:36
SPEAKER_01: is that this trance when you travel,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: right?
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Because when you're in the book, you're traveling, you're not here.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And that's why it can be different types of travel.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: So you're traveling with a book or with the characters of a book.
40:53
um and of course something completely different happens when
40:57
you travel with the
40:59
news or when you travel with instagram reels and stuff like
41:04
that but i think like
41:07
you know that's why we so love to travel also this is very
41:15
interesting that you
41:15
SPEAKER_02: bring it up because actually um
41:22
The travel,
41:23
when you go from one place to the other,
41:26
so you do cross the threshold.
41:28
And very often,
41:29
it's really like you go from your ordinary reality to a
41:33
different reality.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: For example, we go on vacation.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: So you're going to the different world.
41:38
And so in this vacation world,
41:42
it's sort of like the trance state in comparing to your...
41:48
SPEAKER_02: functioning and executive functioning mode in your ordinary life.
41:52
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, travel is kind of an agent of trance.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: But also even physical travel.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: If you've changed your environment and you are now in a totally different
42:07
SPEAKER_00: environment and you're mentally cued,
42:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm on vacation.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm outside of the realm of my normal life.
42:15
That also creates a trans state where a lot of times a person
42:21
will show up in ways
42:22
that they would not have showed up at home in their home base
42:27
environment.
42:28
So even if their executive function is on and maybe even hyper
42:32
vigilant a little
42:33
SPEAKER_00: bit because you're in a new place,
42:35
SPEAKER_00: you really need to keep track of more things.
42:37
But I think that there's still an aspect that becomes transient
42:42
or altered consciousness
42:44
SPEAKER_00: in the physical realm of traveling somewhere else.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: So your executive function is still on,
42:53
SPEAKER_00: but something else has still shifted around it,
42:55
which causes some kind of transy aspect or experience as you're
43:07
interacting with
43:07
SPEAKER_00: that new environment.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I'm like trying to work this out as I'm speaking.
43:13
I think also with traveling,
43:15
maybe that this is the longing that we have for traveling.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, at least now I'm speaking about myself and I remember myself
43:26
SPEAKER_01: I was really so looking forward to any kind of travel.
43:30
I guess to,
43:31
again,
43:32
get out of the mundane when trance state was not really
43:36
accessible to me.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: I was like feeling in a constant grind.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: And so how do you get out of this, right?
43:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, traveling, definitely one of the ways.
43:47
Well,
43:47
and then other things like whatever,
43:50
alcohol or something like that.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: And now I know that there's been a big shift.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Actually, I just like staying at home.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel so good.
44:07
I know that I can create for myself this state where I just go
44:15
on an adventure
44:17
SPEAKER_01: without leaving the house.
44:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
44:21
SPEAKER_02: And this is where this element of awareness comes into play.
44:27
SPEAKER_02: So in this case,
44:28
the more awareness there is in this being in a trance or
44:33
bringing the trance into
44:38
SPEAKER_02: the present moment,
44:40
SPEAKER_02: so the more you can really just...
44:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't like the word control in this construct,
44:50
SPEAKER_02: but manage somehow the,
44:55
SPEAKER_02: your reality and your interaction with the reality.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: And like,
45:02
SPEAKER_02: I think one of the,
45:04
SPEAKER_02: also another reason,
45:05
SPEAKER_02: but it's related to the previous one,
45:07
SPEAKER_02: why people tend to,
45:15
to feel sort of aversion to the word trance is because they are
45:22
relating it to
45:23
SPEAKER_02: these drugs,
45:26
SPEAKER_02: that you need to take something,
45:28
SPEAKER_02: ingest something that alters your state of consciousness,
45:32
SPEAKER_02: and it more often than not provokes addiction.
45:38
So it seems that in order to enter the trance state,
45:42
you need to do something bad to yourself.
45:47
SPEAKER_02: The more you're aware of yourself,
45:50
the more tools you have to bring all kinds of trance states
45:57
into your life that are
45:58
SPEAKER_02: perfectly healthy.
46:02
And actually the altered state of consciousness can be achieved
46:06
through a piece of
46:07
SPEAKER_00: chocolate or through a really great cup of tea.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: So maybe it is about the allowing,
46:16
SPEAKER_00: that's what's been percolating for me,
46:18
SPEAKER_00: the allowing of our awareness and our consciousness to be more open
46:29
SPEAKER_00: And to normalize that this altered states of these,
46:34
SPEAKER_00: these,
46:35
SPEAKER_00: because there's multiples in so many different ways,
46:37
SPEAKER_00: altered states of consciousness are always here.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of like,
46:42
are we allowing and tuning into them or are we rationalizing
46:45
ourselves out of it
46:47
SPEAKER_00: or,
46:47
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:47
focusing ourselves into something that's more in the brain kind
46:52
of space realm?
46:55
SPEAKER_00: And also for me, the trust part came up again, right?
47:00
SPEAKER_00: Because there would have to be trust in order for the allowing to happen.
47:06
And also just the allowing of the fact that we are not who
47:12
we've been conditioned
47:13
SPEAKER_00: to be as humans,
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
47:15
SPEAKER_00: and we really are so much more.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: So for those of us that have been able to finally...
47:23
SPEAKER_00: you know,
47:23
past the threshold of we're only brain directed beings and we
47:30
are now playing and
47:30
SPEAKER_00: experimenting with the allowing into all these other aspects of us,
47:35
so much more becomes available and it kind of like normalizes
47:38
the whole spectrum of
47:39
things that I for sure was not allowing myself when I was
47:45
younger for many
47:46
SPEAKER_00: different reasons.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
47:52
SPEAKER_01: and actually talking about history,
47:54
SPEAKER_01: that again,
47:56
SPEAKER_01: the history comes from those podcast episodes that I mentioned,
48:01
SPEAKER_01: and it's related actually to the
48:06
christianity and organized religions where like from the trans
48:11
state was seen as a
48:14
threat to the stability of the society because what happens to
48:20
us after let's say
48:22
SPEAKER_01: trans that is a peak experience
48:24
you get to see things in a very different light like all the
48:31
conditioning the
48:32
thinking the what you're told to do the social norms like all
48:37
of a sudden you get
48:38
to like hmm wow really maybe not no actually a really funny
48:45
story comes to mind
48:47
SPEAKER_01: I had a breathwork circle here in Berlin,
48:52
SPEAKER_01: and this was for women,
48:54
SPEAKER_01: and we did a lot of breathing,
48:57
SPEAKER_01: but also some active breathing,
49:00
SPEAKER_01: a little bit of hyperventilating.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: And then after it was over,
49:05
SPEAKER_01: we were finishing with the sharing circle,
49:07
SPEAKER_01: and one woman said,
49:10
SPEAKER_01: you know what,
49:12
SPEAKER_01: I just realized
49:14
SPEAKER_01: I had always hated my husband's scent, like the smell, his smell.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: And she was actually not in the best relationship with her husband,
49:33
SPEAKER_01: but somehow that realization was a tipping point for her.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: She was like, shit, this is not good.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not a match.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and how many couples broke up after personal development training?
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
49:51
but I've heard some stories where it really sometimes comes
49:55
from overthinking,
49:57
SPEAKER_01: actually,
49:58
or you being told by whatever coaches and psychotherapists what
50:06
it is drawing the
50:08
SPEAKER_01: picture for you.
50:10
But this,
50:11
I think it's quite legitimate here if it's like a really deep
50:16
realization.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: No, I agree.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
50:22
It's almost like tuning into her sense of smell for the very
50:27
first time and
50:28
allowing for the data that was probably underneath her
50:34
consciousness the whole time
50:37
for that data to actually reach her consciousness in a way
50:41
where she was like,
50:42
SPEAKER_00: oh,
50:43
SPEAKER_00: this...
50:44
SPEAKER_00: This is not a match because the chemistry is not right.
50:53
And maybe she was choosing her husband with very different
50:58
senses or aspects of her mind.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: and not from the aspects of more of her, right?
51:06
SPEAKER_00: More of her that is available, which is what you were saying.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh my God,
51:09
of course it would be so scary for an organized religion that I
51:15
think originally
51:16
was created in order to create some order out of chaos and that
51:20
requires the
51:21
SPEAKER_00: energetics of control,
51:23
SPEAKER_00: right?
51:23
SPEAKER_00: And order and rules.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: And it would be very difficult to deal with...
51:29
the fact that humans are so much more than that and cannot even
51:33
be put into that box.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: So how do you take those faculties away?
51:40
SPEAKER_00: What were you going to say, Yir?
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember, but
51:49
SPEAKER_02: You said something of becoming more of herself.
51:53
So it's really because in trance state,
51:58
we're expanding our consciousness.
52:00
So it's,
52:04
again,
52:05
what my teacher says is that trance is about inviting all
52:10
people
52:11
SPEAKER_02: parts of yourself to have a tea together.
52:16
You're giving a voice to some parts of yourself that were shut
52:22
down and blocked by
52:25
SPEAKER_02: the rational mind.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: And that's why you're all of a sudden
52:31
there are other voices here and of course your reality shifts
52:37
your perception of
52:40
everything of what you are and what life and your life and the
52:44
other person it
52:46
SPEAKER_02: changes
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Wait,
52:49
SPEAKER_00: and actually,
52:49
SPEAKER_00: if you think about it,
52:51
SPEAKER_00: when dating is a thing,
52:54
SPEAKER_00: right,
52:54
and you are choosing the person that you're going to date or
53:01
potentially have a
53:02
SPEAKER_00: relationship with,
53:02
SPEAKER_00: right?
53:04
a lot of times what leads the charge is like again like the
53:08
chemistry of course but
53:09
also like what what does the person look like right um specific
53:14
physical attributes
53:17
um that your eyes will either like or or not like but if if you
53:21
give yourself the
53:22
SPEAKER_00: chance
53:23
to get to know a person and see what else sparks chemistry or
53:29
interest that is in
53:31
SPEAKER_00: other categories other than specifically what this person looks like,
53:35
SPEAKER_00: you actually can start,
53:38
SPEAKER_00: there's like a shift that happens in the way the person looks.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: So you could literally go from,
53:43
SPEAKER_00: oh,
53:44
SPEAKER_00: this is a really unattractive person to,
53:46
SPEAKER_00: oh,
53:48
SPEAKER_00: this is actually,
53:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm attracted to this person.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: And that shifts reality, like the person's physicality did not change.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: So what shifted?
53:56
What trance state were you able to allow yourself to open up
54:01
into where the normal
54:04
SPEAKER_00: aspects of reality got shifted and rearranged?
54:09
SPEAKER_00: So now this same person is actually attractive to you.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, speaking about partners, of course, orgasm is a peak trance state.
54:23
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even think about trans states and orgasms.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, keep going.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think,
54:31
SPEAKER_01: whatever,
54:32
SPEAKER_01: some years ago,
54:33
SPEAKER_01: I happened to be reading a book,
54:35
SPEAKER_01: actually on flow,
54:36
SPEAKER_01: a scientific book.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: Someone, Jamie Wheeler, his name, forgot the book.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: So he was actually talking about therapeutics of overcoming
54:52
SPEAKER_01: trauma and using altered states or trance state for that.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things he was talking about is
55:01
sex and orgasm and they were interestingly making experiments
55:06
with people who just
55:08
randomly signed up um you know just to measure what what
55:12
happens after the orgasm
55:14
what happens with their brains and the bodies and this nervous
55:19
system and things
55:20
SPEAKER_01: like that and so the conclusion was like
55:24
SPEAKER_01: wow, this is like those psilocybin sessions that are really well done.
55:30
SPEAKER_01: This is just really quite therapeutic.
55:38
Yeah,
55:38
well,
55:39
I guess it also depends on orgasms and all other parts of the
55:44
process.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: But I think just being in love per se is already a trance state.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: So that's why you see the person in a totally different light.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: Wait,
56:00
so that means even exercise creates a trance state because
56:03
after a good stretch,
56:06
I have a totally different sense of my body and my being and my
56:10
happiness actually
56:11
SPEAKER_00: increases.
56:12
And I have a different sensation of my relationship to the
56:16
world through my physical body.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: So wait, so is everything about trans?
56:22
SPEAKER_02: Why do you think most of the specialists who talk about flow state,
56:31
SPEAKER_02: they focus a lot on the sportsmen?
56:38
SPEAKER_01: And runners high, for example?
56:41
SPEAKER_01: Dream sports is where...
56:44
SPEAKER_01: flow as a big state happens and is accessible.
56:49
SPEAKER_01: And that also makes me think about one other thing that trans state does.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: You said that it opens you up.
56:58
SPEAKER_01: And the extreme examples with mountain climbers or whatever,
57:06
This is the flow state that's characterized by the unity that
57:09
they feel with the experience.
57:12
SPEAKER_01: This is something, again, that we discussed.
57:14
SPEAKER_01: But me and the mountains, we are one.
57:18
And I'm using...
57:21
I'm actually now in the moment...
57:25
There are sometimes situations where
57:29
You can only survive if you rely on the intelligence and the
57:34
guidance of the
57:35
SPEAKER_01: mountain or of the water.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: And this is also very much about connection and about interconnectedness,
57:43
SPEAKER_01: because this is where you can really make that shift from...
57:49
this cognitive again we're used to okay like these are plants
57:54
how can i connect
57:55
with them this is water or this is mountains or this is uh you
57:59
know like the soil
58:01
how how would they connect with them well this is how you just
58:07
open yourself up
58:08
through a trance state yeah i totally agree that this is about
58:14
connection and
58:15
SPEAKER_02: actually that is why for me
58:20
the most typical entry point to a trance state is connecting
58:27
different elements of
58:28
SPEAKER_02: my awareness,
58:29
SPEAKER_02: so basically directing my attention to several focal points at once.
58:33
You just open up your awareness and you become aware of several
58:42
things at once and
58:43
SPEAKER_02: whoop,
58:44
SPEAKER_02: you're in trance.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: That's actually true.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: When I started playing with not just one sense,
58:51
SPEAKER_00: but several senses,
58:52
SPEAKER_00: like breath and what I was seeing,
58:56
SPEAKER_00: that took my own practice of the consciousness awareness,
59:01
whatever I was using to shift my state to a whole other level
59:04
very quickly.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, whoa, what is that?
59:06
SPEAKER_00: That's so weird.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: But there's something there with what you're describing.
59:11
SPEAKER_00: I've seen it in practice.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: But also it makes me think,
59:18
SPEAKER_00: as I usually end up thinking,
59:20
SPEAKER_00: why have we not been taught all of this stuff when we were younger?
59:24
SPEAKER_00: Like,
59:24
wouldn't this be the most necessary piece of education and
59:28
aspect of education that
59:30
SPEAKER_00: we should have received as humans and not all the other stuff?
59:35
SPEAKER_01: And now, kids, welcome to the trance class.
59:42
Now let's have a class about how to sense with your senses and
59:47
how to zoom in and zoom in.
59:49
SPEAKER_00: Why weren't we ever...
59:51
Why was that only relegated to those woo-woo people that were
59:55
learning weird things
59:56
SPEAKER_00: in the background,
59:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
59:57
SPEAKER_00: like hiding?
59:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't get that.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: Because we have killed the sacred.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: We've organized ourselves out of...
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: what we're naturally actually meant for.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_00: Yep, exactly.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_01: Disconnected.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, I do believe that it has been a necessary phase in our evolution.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not coming down on this course.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: As in parts work,
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: you're welcoming all of the,
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: whether it's saboteurs in some aspects or it's like the exiles,
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: the managers,
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: the protectors,
1:00:44
SPEAKER_00: like we're not going to come down on them and shame them.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: We're going to welcome them and thank them for the job that they've done,
1:00:52
SPEAKER_00: that they thought that was their job and that that was how to do it.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_00: They didn't know better.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: But now we're going to kind of pave the way for other ways of being.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_01: I think you have also watched it.
1:01:09
As they say in the Wheel of Time series,
1:01:14
the wheel weaves or something like that.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: So the wheel has woven, something like that they say.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_01: Basically, that's something...
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: It is there, right?
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: So we want to be here with what is.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: And since we touched a little bit on how to enter trance state,
1:01:38
SPEAKER_01: maybe we have a little bit time left.
1:01:43
Let's finish by just exchanging a few of your favorite ways of
1:01:49
getting into trance.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: I basically have one,
1:01:55
SPEAKER_02: and I have described it already,
1:01:58
SPEAKER_02: focusing my attention on at least two focal points at once.
1:02:03
I know there are people who say that you need four,
1:02:06
but for me,
1:02:08
two points already work.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: I do that as well,
1:02:14
SPEAKER_00: but I think specifically when I am able to get into an altered state,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: it's usually because I'm following the energy.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: And it could be the energy in the container,
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: in the room with the other person,
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: like whatever is there.
1:02:29
I tune out of my normal way of being and I kind of expand and
1:02:35
tune into more,
1:02:38
SPEAKER_00: like more whatever is there.
1:02:40
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I even...
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: see some aspects of energy and that takes me even deeper very quickly.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: So those are mine.
1:02:52
Now it makes me realize that maybe I'm a trance junkie or
1:02:56
something because I have so many.
1:03:02
I think maybe a lot of the things that I've been doing the last
1:03:06
15 years were about
1:03:09
SPEAKER_01: getting into flow and into trance.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: So breathing is one of them, breathwork.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_01: And if it really gets bad,
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: which sometimes with me happens,
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: I go up the spiral doing something and then I find myself...
1:03:29
SPEAKER_01: I showed up,
1:03:30
SPEAKER_01: but actually the spiral leads me down.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: And what picks me up sometimes is...
1:03:38
breathwork and my favorite way as of lately is dancing it's a
1:03:46
special form of
1:03:47
dancing it's called biodanza and it's here run by a friend in
1:03:54
Berlin and those are
1:03:55
like live sessions of course I also dance on my own and I could
1:04:01
actually like
1:04:02
SPEAKER_01: sometimes
1:04:04
I can take the whole day of just like dancing and then going
1:04:10
into travel without in
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: stillness and dancing and stillness.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_01: But there in his groups, it's really cool.
1:04:19
So he,
1:04:20
for example,
1:04:21
the last time I went was this week because I needed some peak
1:04:28
state.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: It was about full moon.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: Dancing.
1:04:34
kind of like to the moon and the moon's energy and was really
1:04:42
so so cool and the
1:04:45
whole thing gets into well the whole group gets into an altered
1:04:49
state trance state
1:04:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a few.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: But also, I think cold water is the thing that definitely gets me.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_00: But you see, I don't associate those things with trans.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: Now I will.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: I do all that stuff, too.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_00: But I didn't think that that was me specifically entering trans states.
1:05:09
So now I'm going to have a different relationship with this
1:05:13
word and this concept.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:05:17
Music is also very powerful because trance requires the rhythm,
1:05:22
so it can be very powerful.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think what Paulina mentioned,
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: it's not just the entry point per se,
1:05:43
but I think it's the important requirement for trance to happen
1:05:49
is the openness.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_02: So you need to allow yourself to enter the trance because you're like,
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: I will control it,
1:05:57
SPEAKER_02: I will control it.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the process might be more powerful than your control,
1:06:04
SPEAKER_02: but you definitely are getting in the way.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: Transcend the neocortex.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_01: Let us fly.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I think we're coming to an end.
1:06:24
And maybe let's share just a couple of things that we are
1:06:29
taking from today.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm just happy that we have converted Polina.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: It's true, I am converted.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: It is true.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_02: More trends into the world.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes, baby.
1:06:52
And I'm happy to share that I have been quite transy during
1:06:59
this conversation.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_02: It was good,
1:07:05
SPEAKER_02: and it's always a pleasure to have a conversation with you,
1:07:11
SPEAKER_02: even without trans,
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: but with trans it's even better.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_01: Let's go, transy!
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I definitely felt trans moments in our conversation today.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: And then there were other moments when I was shifting into other things.
1:07:32
But I'm really glad that we had this discussion and I opened up
1:07:39
into something new.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: That I could see.
1:07:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to see trans everywhere now.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_00: So that's really cool.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_00: Fun.
1:07:50
SPEAKER_00: Yola?
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I enjoyed... I really enjoyed our chat.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_01: And I really... And actually, why did I want to talk about trance?
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, the real reason is coming to me.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_01: It was because I went to a concert, to a jazz concert in Berlin.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_01: And this was like three super young, super talented guys.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_01: And this was...
1:08:22
a surreal experience of being like this the house of a baba
1:08:27
yoga of the venue it
1:08:30
was all wood it was really old everything inside was old wood
1:08:37
old chairs the creaky
1:08:40
SPEAKER_01: stage and there were this like three beautiful young men
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: They were, one was singing, one was playing electric guitar.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_01: The third one was, um, um, was like this on the base base.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: No, this, uh, like huge, uh, guitar that usually the base.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a base.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a base.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_01: And oh my God, they were in such a trance state.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_01: like they were just trancy, really trancy.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_01: And because they were really trancy, I was also really trancy.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: They just, they were like, took you in.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_01: And I was sitting there, I was like, oh my God, this is so cool.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just,
1:09:37
like vibrating everything inside of me is vibrating in literal
1:09:41
sense because of the
1:09:42
music and because of the voice but also in um like this trancy
1:09:49
meaning i was like
1:09:52
SPEAKER_01: wow this feels so good i have to talk about we have to talk about trance
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_00: It's so funny how that's why you wanted to talk about it,
1:10:03
SPEAKER_00: but music only came in at the very end of the episode.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: When you mentioned music, I was like, oh.
1:10:09
SPEAKER_01: It's so funny.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's just kind of flowy today.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: So I enjoyed this trans conversation.
1:10:21
And I think the more people talk about trans,
1:10:23
the better this world is going to be.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: The more people enter into trance.
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: Consciously, deliberately, the better off we all will be.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: Reclaim their relationship with that concept.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:40
And thank you for being with us and for playing with us and for
1:10:46
maybe even being trancy with us.
1:10:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and see you soon.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_01: Let's transfer together.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_01: How was it for you?
1:11:02
We believe that the more people experience group flow together,
1:11:06
the better off we all are.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: More connected, more creative, more alive.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_01: So let's expand the field.
1:11:15
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1:11:21
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1:11:25
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1:11:28
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1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: You can also connect with us on our Life & Flow group substack.
1:11:35
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1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: Let's keep flowing together.