Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 494 - Is Vietnamese Food In The US Stuck In The 70’s? - Duyen Ha

Transcript

494 - Is Vietnamese Food In The US Stuck In The 70’s? - Duyen Ha · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like I want to be at people, cook like that, no?
• 0:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a really good question.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: You mean, when you say, cook like that, what do you mean?
• 0:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, the way that, like, not just my parents, but their friends too.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all week and long, everyone's cooking all week in.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have these huge, crazy dinner parties, y'all, and just like, you know, because I think in a lot of like Vietnamese communities, I don't have a lot of Viet restaurants.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to eat all that food?
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you have to cook it yourself.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's how like I feel like the Vietnamese American version of now really comes about, you know, to like it's like a little piece of home that you can't get anywhere else unless you do it yourself.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think I think you're right.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I never thought about that.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So because there were no Vietnamese restaurants, we just cooked like that all the time.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: how old were you when you started like hanging out with them watching them?
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you remember like did you clock it?
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, because it's been forever.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like even my parents living in upstate New York we would drive two hours to a farm.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my dad could pick out the chickens because the chickens at the farm taste better than at the store and then my brother would have to hold the chickens next so he could slice it.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Prithikan, you know.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, this is crazy to me, like, you witnessed that?
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and, like, I need to watch my brother do it, and my dad was like, over, like, you know, little towel, and you just go like that, and then like mix it with fish sauce, and then, like, we didn't have a big enough table to fit everybody.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we'd sit on the kitchen floor, yeah.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: paper down.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Paper down exactly and then just seeing this like bright red dish that peanuts and stuff and with everyone taking it like I can still the smell like as I'm talking about the smell of all of it and I was just way too scared to ever try it.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, so you haven't tried it?
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I still never had it.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, your dad was in town.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we talked about it when you were there.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I had thought that you just grew up having that dish, because it was just like, for him, who's this like, when are we going?
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You never tried it.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You never tried it.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's, cause I just don't like the iron taste.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like blood and liver and all those organ needs, just isn't like thing.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been eating it so long that I don't know if there's an iron taste and thick I don't know.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh really?
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I couldn't think of it.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: There might be in the like pork blood and all that but yeah.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: When I think about like thick I don't know if there's
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, will you try it the next time?
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: I totally try it.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, all right.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we try it with your dad here.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I didn't even do the introduction, but we're going to use that.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to double use, well, what we just talked about.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the Vietnamese podcast.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Today I have a Zunha.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: You go by a different name though, too, right?
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Doing so by Duan and English.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Duan, okay.
• 2:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: If I meet a Vietnamese person, I'm like, hi, I'm Duan, and they say their name, I'm like, oh, you ain't or Zun, you know?
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: God, I got it.
• 2:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I was in high here with me, and Zuin has been on the Vietnamese podcast before on multiple platforms, you know, and Instagram with us with some things that we do collab with, and recently you are on top chef, and that's why we're here to talk about today.
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but, you know, I do want to go over like your early years again because, uh,
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was years ago that we sat down, right?
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like two years ago.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Two years ago, yeah.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we were just talking about your early years and how you were brought up around the kitchen.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: But you just brought up a really funny thing an idea that for our next collab with the brand, about the idea of peppers, chili peppers.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Could you describe what that was like in your house?
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so chili peppers, my parents eat super spicy, but it's one of those things that invite them to these cuisine.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't eat spicy in the way that it's in the dish.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of times it's on the side.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And my parents would always have a little chili, of Thai chili pepper on the side, and they're biting into it.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you can tell that they took a little too big of a bite, and they're kind of free and how.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then it's like one thing, like about Thai chilies, is like you get a hit, and then it's done.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, Chili's have always been a huge part of my family.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even to the point where like, in fun, my parents would actually put Saratya and their fah.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as kids, we always want our fah to look just like theirs.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my mom used to trick us and actually gave us ketchup.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that our fah had the same red color as theirs did.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we just always thought that was a normal thing.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: So... How many years did you do that for?
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Probably put catch up in fun until I was like 14.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So when did you, why would you stop doing it if you did it from like, as a kid to 14?
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because then I started hanging out with my cousins and like, you know, in Vietnamese families, sometimes we need fun together, but we had there's a million other dishes we're eating other.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there was just this one time, like we're all starting to fall and then
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: at my aunt's house and then we grab the ketchup bottle and the whole family looked at us like what are you doing really fortified mortified and we got so used to it and we just started we just always did it and I think even sometimes my parents put a little in their foot too like I think they saw us doing it and they wanted to try it and so it was wild and yeah
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've talked about it before, but every time I hear it, it's just a, it's just such a, a crazy, yeah, like, even this morning, like I was with a friend and like he put catch up on his eggs and I'm like, oh, like, that's such a normal thing, but when you're not in use to it and ketchup is like,
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those things where it's like you have a love paper relationship, especially if you notice that since living outside the States, like in America, we love catch up.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it feels like a very neat and easy American thing.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: My daughter loves kitchen, and I can't get her off of it.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then she's actually seeing the thing, yeah, she's seeing the color like this.
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't tried it yet.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm afraid she might get addicted to it.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: She might love it.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: But you know, when I think about that, I think about the reference of you trying new things.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Creating kind of hate the sort of fusion.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's kind of,
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It reminds me of like this ability that you might have to try different things because of the catch up and all of these other things that are that you grew up with.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and my dad's a super adventurous eaters always trying to try new things always down like like my dad if he's going to a new country he likes to try the beer from that country.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so when they're visiting me around Europe, he's like, what beer can I try?
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it's like, he's like his interests in trying new foods definitely rubbed off on all of us.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't like, I don't love the word fusion either because it's like my food and love Vietnamese food that I cook is really based on my life experience.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like how much I've traveled and you know, to be a good chef, you also have to eat a lot of different foods and so it's like a lot of dishes that I'm creating are also dishes that like I've never really even seen before, but something it's like this sounds really interesting or cool.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me try and just put it together.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of interesting and cool, you've had training outside of the United States, right?
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: And your path is not really traditional anymore.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: But how did you think of when you were first coming out of the kitchens in Europe coming out into the real world?
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: What did you think your life path would be in the culinary world?
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think like, pre-pandemic, I think a lot of chefs had the similar trajectory, where it's like, okay, you like work at all these kitchens, you become a sous chef, executive chef at a restaurant, and eventually you open your own restaurant, and that's it, and that's all you do as a chef, and that's your path.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the pandemic changed the
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: a lot, and especially in the industry where we had no idea what the hell was going on, obviously I had a very similar path where it's like, I started then a champagne and French wine company bundle.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm like now like restaurant adjacent, but I'm not really in the restaurant scene anymore.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it allowed me like, you know, the nice thing and cool thing about wine is like, it is recession proof.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: like it's pandemic proof and so it was cool to kind of see the different angle of the industry, but you know, my heart is still always in cooking and so I kind of I still continue that path, but you know, I think working in France, it's like you do have that one path and nice thing about being in the States is we're still entrepreneurial.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: We always think of like what else can we do.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: People have two or three different jobs like that's not the case over there.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I completely, I know, I apologize for God that you did, you have a wine company bundle.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's crazy, because when, you know, when you think about like a human life, you know, like somebody's life, you're so young.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now when I think about it, bundle, you know, and chopped and, you know, this whole, like, this journey, I think with NASCAR, too.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are all creases.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are creases that people have for their whole lives.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've like, fit that all within, I mean, I knew five years, five years.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's mind blowing.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's why I didn't even, I didn't even clock it.
• 10:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: But the last time you were on the podcast, we talked about Bondo.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: We talked about Bondo, yep.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so right now, my life is about like, what's the priority?
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's hard because they're all big priorities.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I all have different teams for every single segment and business that I have.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like figuring out which one that I need to focus on now.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: And how does that work?
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you figure out what makes most sense for you at the moment?
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you prioritize this stuff?
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because they also, like, again, they're all like major life paths.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's I'm still figuring that out, but I think I try and think at least four or five steps ahead, where it's like, okay, like if I'm working on a lot of top chef stuff right now, this is stuff that I can also help me bondle down the line, this is stuff that I like so what can I work on now that can pull all the other things forward.
• 11:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to kind of think about it in a group in that way.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where it's like, okay, sorry, bundle.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm not working on you like actively for, let's save this week.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like, you are in the decision-making process.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I literally had a conversation with director about when about the same thing yesterday.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: He was giving me advice as he usually does.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: We go on these hikes and he said to me, try to do everything that is related to podcasting, producing, just like Bondo, just like food, just like NASCAR, just like top chef and chop.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: It all floats within the same ecosystem that you do.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: It minimizes the energy of trying to figure out what should be priority because they're all really within the same ecosystem.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're all connected for sure.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: So when you first got into the television business, how did that happen?
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So unlike most people in LA, I did not move to LA to be famous.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I did not move to LA to have a career in television.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I moved here to start a wine company.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think living in France, too, was kind of isolating, because I'm from New York.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like you're in the epicenter of every thing there.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm gonna move to France just to focus on food and that's it.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I did for three, four years.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Coming to LA, it's like, oh, I'm back in the world now.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And everyone kind of sees me in my wine business.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: We were doing all these events.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we were sponsored and all these events.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And a casting producer from Chop just reached out.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And was like, hey, kind of saw all the things that you're doing, looked at your resume, all these places that you worked.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Would you be interested in competing on Chop?
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it was kind of what I don't know when this opportunity is going to come again.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just see what happens.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: got through the whole process, one shot, and then I was like, okay, maybe I'll start cooking again because I kind of stopped cooking for two years, prior to the job, because I just wanted to focus on the wine business.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then fast forward, but like, I'm not really cooking cooking.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of doing a pop up here, doing some events here, and then NASCAR reached out, and was like,
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: So random and NASCAR was like, hey, we're literally trying or the team legacy motor club, Jimmy Johnson's team.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to reimagine what hospitality looks like, not even within NASCAR, but in motor sports.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we would love for you to pilot this new program.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: That happened two months later, Top Chef reached out from a casting director.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was just like it all was coming at the same exact time.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Same thing with top chef like that year last year was by far the craziest year.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like NASCAR is happening.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just I bought out my co-founders and now I'm the sole founder of Bondel like trying to like all these life things were happening and I was like,
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but like, I don't know when top Jeff's gonna reach out.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I might as well just kind of go through this whole process.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that process took about like five months.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And top chefs then announced, I think around the time that they'd offered to me where city it was going to be in.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Top chef is in Charlotte.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: The NASCAR team is based in Charlotte.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I was learning how to cook all this food from Charlotte from working with NASCAR, which then inevitably helped me with top chef.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: when you think about the universe, a lining for you, right?
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's clear as day almost, right?
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think like that or do you think a series of like hardworking years kind of like brings that, according to what that luck on?
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you, what do you treat me this to?
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely a mixture of both.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely have a very positive optimistic outlook on life.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I see things if it doesn't work out.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, at least now I know.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll just like chalk it up as that.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that like, I definitely work my ass off.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I work really hard.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I can't say that like, what doesn't have a huge part, being the right place at the right time.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think also allowing myself to be very open.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: and letting opportunities come and like going for it as well.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I also, I make decisions very quickly.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a person that sits on things.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I don't really know.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like, yes, yes, no, yes.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so because I move so fast, I think it's more things are coming at a faster rate for me.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think I've heard you on probably the podcast or just in person one time talking about your preparation for things like before you go on a show or before you go into battle like, it's why.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: You do a lot of prep work.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you talk about your process?
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So going on to top chef, I always hold myself if I'm gonna go on the show, I want six months of not doing anything just to focus on this.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, life doesn't work that way.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it really didn't work that way coming on where I had maybe six weeks, two months, to really spend my energy and focus on it.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the way that I thought about chopped was like, okay, depending on what they throw on the miss, no matter what they throw on the mystery basket, I know I'm going to cook and I can put those elements into my dish.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Did kind of the same thing with top chef, but I had to do in a much larger scale.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I divided everything up into proteins.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Chicken, beef, pork, seafood, dessert, vegetarian, and fish.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And on every protein, five different ways of how you would prep it.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Fry, roast, bake, grill.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I would kind of conceptualize dishes loosely on all those things before.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: all of those proteins.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I had flashcards, I had notes, I had to still kind of conceptualize R&D those dishes.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So no matter where top chef put me, I'm cooking outside and in a restaurant, I'm stuck in a corner.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I knew exactly what I could cook based on kind of my preparation.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: How did you figure that out?
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just figured it out.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's the way to organize going in.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I was very, very organized.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then even when I was competing on the show, I had so many flashcards at index cards with me all the time, because I wrote everything down.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So even writing down what I'm going to shop for, write down a whole shopping list.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then when I'd have because they announced the challenge, you have time to go shop and then the next day you'd cook it.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So on the next day, that night, I'd write down everything that I needed to do, an order list, and then I'm plating everything I need to play because when you're in the kitchen, you have an hour, maybe 90 minutes, there's cameras, there's producers, things are running around, people are screaming at you, it's so easy to forget or to not even realize how much time you have left.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if I have these cards right in front of me, and it's like, do I?
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, after you did this, check.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do this check.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I already mapped out everything I needed to do.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So all is, it's just a checklist at that point.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: My head is spinning, just a little bit same.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: and like I'm literally trying to follow you and I'm like, just speaking about that.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: But you know, the ingenuity comes in the actual understanding the process way before it happens.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: So did you do a lot of prep work to watch the shows?
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely the prep work to watch it.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the quick fires, like those are 30 minutes, I've seen chopped help a lot, but like,
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know, there's 15 episodes in one season.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's only so I got a ton of cookbooks.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read like probably 30 cookbooks, you know, but there's only so much you can do because at the end of the day you just got to cook food that's your food.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm even like I'm calling my mom, I'm calling my grandma, I'm like trying to pull things that I know that's going to really work, but also make it like top
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a lot of preparation.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't imagine.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I can't even imagine because I'm like trying to follow it, but I can't imagine it.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and on top of that, like I worked with like a speech coach, I worked with like people to kind of help me with like the brand, like how did I want to present myself on the show?
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a friend whose work's in fashion, her whole career.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So help, she styled me, you know, tried to think about how to write my hair, and my makeup, like I tried to think about the full package of who I am on.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: in the competition and not just cooking good food.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you like that as a kid, like when you're going through elementary school, and I asked that because I have a daughter and I'm like, certain things are kind of like, you could see it, like happening early on.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Did this happen early on for you?
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not really.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've kind of grown into this person, you know, something my dad did say to me that like was very helpful.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was like, like, in order to get an A, are you a person that studies for 10 minutes or you got a study for two hours.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no wrong answer, but you just got to figure out what kind of person you are.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a very smart way of saying, you got to know how smart you are compared to like what the actual thing.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Which work you need to put in to where you want to go.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I am a study for two-hour person while my siblings were studying for ten minutes.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like,
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, it took me a while for me to really figure that out about myself and to be like, okay, what kind of work do I need to put in in order to like do something well?
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think for cooking in order to improvise, you got to know the basics.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: You got to know what you're doing.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, it's like, sure, I have this like index card, what it but like if I need to go off road and I need to do something else, it's much easier for me because I have like a system in place.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Can we break down this 10 minute to two hour thing?
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because my brain automatically thinks about myself and I'm like, because I'm just maybe a slower guy, but I don't think that's really what we're talking about, right?
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not about intelligence.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not about how smart you are.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's about how you work in the world, right?
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, what does that mean when your siblings are 10 minute people and you're a two-hour person?
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean?
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: One, I don't think I was a really good student because of that because I was studying the same on a time, my siblings were studying because then we would all like go outside and play basketball or stuff.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, yeah, like I'm not very book smart.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting, like I had really bad grades in grade school, but I was validatory in a culinary school.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what that means in the real world is like understanding what you're good at and what you're not good at and like really like yeah I guess understanding yourself and then figuring out like how can you make those areas shine like I'm not really good at numbers at all like I was terrible math.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I have a CFO.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a whole counting team.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have people and do that stuff for me because if I were to work on that as well, might take me four hours versus them and might take them a half an hour.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of math with cooking though, too.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of math.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's cooking?
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you navigate that or does it come sort of natural and a practical
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, when it comes to cooking like savory stuff, there's a lot of sort of like, there's not a ton of mass, it's like intuition, but yes, baking, I'm like, okay, this is time to just focus and just zone in because you don't wanna get these numbers wrong.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, when I've watched some of the shows that you're on, I think about being a technician and a storyteller.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: And you've hinted about the storytelling today, but do you feel more of one identity than the other?
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you feel like more of a storyteller or more of a technician?
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: Or do you kind of like bounce?
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: back and forth between the two.
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sorry, I'm only offering two things to be.
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: But when I look at you, I mean, you're a highly technical in the kitchen, but there's a storytelling element that maybe we as the audience are not paying attention to, but it's there.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really there.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it rounds out the entire, yeah.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think being a founder, something that's helpful, is like, you got to pitch and tell your story all the time.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, whether I'm trying to sell the lines, or I'm trying to sell, like, whether it's to like a customer or an investor or something like that.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I've learned the power of storytelling.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I also think that food is also so personal.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, I can give you a dish.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you know about the story behind the dish, and like, why I decide to cook this.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously on top chef, the story means a lot.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's that connection that's a little bit deeper and I think for me as a chef like I want people to connect with my food So I have to kind of tell them or I want to tell them the story.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I think I'm somewhere in the middle Yeah, but these stories that are related to our culture to did me's culture, right?
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: How much of our kind of hate this word to authenticity are you kind of
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: reaching back into, or do you kind of abandon it and say, you know what?
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Vietnamese, my parents cooked, they expose me in all this great food, but I believe that how much of the Vietnamese culture do you bring with you into a TV show?
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, um, you know, the dish that I just made was Tithko.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that was very, I think, kind of, um, what's where I'm looking for.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um,
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Authentic.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it was a dish that I got from my grandmother's traditional.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was a dish that it was like my grandmother's recipe.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think the other components were things that I made very shuffie.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot like, for example, I'm doing a pop-up next week, and I'm going to make a back off because it's like at a like a seafood base restaurant.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So whenever I'm doing a dish, I always start with the most traditional version.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I always call my parents or my grandmother first, get their recipe, and then from there I might play around with it.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the thing that is really hard about cooking Vietnamese food that is not traditional is I always say it has to be better than the traditional version if it's worse than why are you messing it up.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: But how do you know when it's better?
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously better is very subjective.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it has to be like.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, that's a really good question.
• 27:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do I know that it's better?
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe better is not the right word, but it has to feel different enough or like eating in a way that's different or it's just like make kind of makes your mind think or it's just like, oh, I never thought about putting this in here, pairing it with this or eating it in this style.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the feeling I get when you describe better is what you just said is that it doesn't bring you down.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, eating it doesn't make you feel like, oh my God, it's like this is a worse version.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can't ever do that.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but actually it's more enjoyable.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Then a previous version.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, air like maybe sometimes more enjoyable, but it's just different.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to like,
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it's so hard to say things are better or worse, I just want a different version.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Of what maybe we normally do.
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I saw you cook at an event a week ago, two weeks ago.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was just watching you.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, you know, I've watched you on TV.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I know that when you cook on TV and you live this sort of like a, it's like this idea of like,
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: not being in the kitchen, but it's in the kitchen, but it's an antique on TV.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: But when you're like really in a space where you're like having to prepare food and people are like hundreds of people are gonna be eating this and you're like really in it.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like there's a certain humility that I watched.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, there's a lot of humility that you're preparing food for the public.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Does that go through your mind at all or not really?
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it all the same?
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whenever I'm doing any sort of event or cooking, or whatever, and plating, the food has to taste good first, always, always.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of got, there was a challenge, I think episode three was a color challenge, and it was taken out of context, but it was like my colors weren't super vibrant, and I kind of knew, like,
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said on there, I was like, look, flavor first color second.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, that's not the challenge of challenges color first, but obviously flavor always has to matter.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, going to event like that where people are coming up and asking you to take photos with me and people want a chance, I want a chat and do all those things, the food comes first and the food has to taste good.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then everything else is secondary because of the food doesn't taste good,
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and it's hard because especially when people come over, if I'm doing like a dinner party, right, when you come over, it looks like I'm a cook at all, everything's already prepped, it's already pristine, my kitchen's all clean and then like I'm pulling things out and I'm like doing finishing touches because when I'm cooking, I am locked in and I'm not going to be able to do that, I'm going to be able to do that, I'm going to be able to do that, I'm going to be able to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: the whole nothing else exists to me besides me and the food right there.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you probably had little glimpses of that.
• 30:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I remember like summer all I, you know, came up to you and then you would do it just so focused.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's funny when my brother watch is top chef.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, he knows me so well.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, oh, yeah, when I see on TV, he goes, I know exactly what you're thinking on when you're locked in.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're in the zone, because you're two different people.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't take it personally, I was just like, you know, but you're completely different human being.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like so serious and I'm like in it and then but I can like get out of it very quickly and so it's like, hey, and then I'm like, like, yeah, let's talk and then I'll go back into the food and I'm just zone in.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: What is the difference between cooking on a TV show and like at an event like that?
• 30:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's cameras and producers all up in your face, you know, and so you have way less space.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, this never happened to me, but like, like, oddly enough, I've never caught my self in the kitchen, like, or with a knife.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know,
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, someone, if you like cut yourself or you're starting to go down and to reduce this here about it, they're like, oh, someone's going down, someone's going down, and then all the cameras start rushing to you.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They want that.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when they want the drama, so you got to just treat me to scab play it cool every time, even if you're going down, you're just like, you know, I wanted this to happen.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is like, you know, and then people start to leave you on your, like, okay, thank God, and then you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, God.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, what do you think prepared you for the high pressure?
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds like a lot of high pressure, a lot of high pressure, but I think like, you know, going to culinary school in France of the best culinary school, very high pressure.
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: where there's like internships, only one person gets to go to the whole school.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's high pressure there, working at three missions to our restaurants, almost impossible to get a work visa as a chef in France, high pressure.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think I'm starting a wine company and doing it in a language that is a native to me and like having like all these things, I've done over and over and over again that I think like I built the confidence in me over time
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, when I think about the level of cooking that you do, and I think about the hierarchy of food, I just had come with this stuff a lot in the podcast in the early years, but returning to 2026 today, you being on the podcast today and talking about the hierarchy of food, right?
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you feel like we've moved the needle within me's food at all?
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we need to, do we,
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do I feel like we moved the Neil, like I also think that we live in a bubble?
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: My bubble is I'm around a bunch of chefs.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in the Vietnamese community.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I live in Los Angeles.
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like Vietnamese food, like the moment that people meet me, they're like a little reframe or like you know, they find out if you didn't meet all you love Vietnamese food.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's the first thing like the floor just like, I love fun, you know?
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like okay cool, like I'll say I love burgers, like come on when I meet you like.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I feel like Viet food is like super interesting and like I think a lot of people are very curious every time I've taken people Eviet and these food people love it, but I do think I'm in a bubble because of that because I'm like, oh, yeah, like it's super accessible and everyone I know eats it, but obviously that's not really the case outside of yeah
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: But do you think there's an evolution to Vietnamese food in the next few years?
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope so because I think food and culture evolve in the same way, you know, and I think like as a culture if we're going to progress, food also goes in that same direction because a lot of Vietnamese food is stuck in like the 1960s and 70s of when people came from
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, after the war, but it's like Vietnam has progressed a lot.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Vietnam is not stuck in there.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, how come Vietnamese food in Vietnam has progressed?
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: How come our food here hasn't?
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: How has Vietnam progress the Vietnamese food?
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like I've had now I have cousins that have come from Vietnam.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: More recently I feel like there's been like this little influx of a lot of my cousins.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: The past like five years and now when we do these like family dinners and gatherings they're pulling out dishes I've never had before.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of the best dishes I've had was it was like a vehicle but inside they had like
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: slightly unright mango with pork, cucumber, dried shrimp, um, not ketchup, mayo, and something else, and then like, I was like, what is, and it was like, but it's like mango pork and like, but like,
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was wild and it was so good.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, yeah, this is a common street food and Vietnam right now.
• 35:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, the crazy thing is all of those ingredients have been around for, I don't know, 50 years, 100 years.
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Vietnam, I'm sure.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, there's a realm in there too.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just like, what is this?
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, things like that is happening.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're not doing cool stuff like that.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I want us to do cool stuff like that.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you think we're not?
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have such a huge food scene in Orange County and such a large concentration and we are Americans that are like living on the edges of the frontier.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why are we not?
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Why do you think we're not doing Mayo and and all of these like yeah cool things.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people are purist, a lot of people are very traditional.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think because I think they're like Indian nom, they're like, oh, like we can, because they're Indian nom, they're like, well, we can change the food here because we're in the epicenter.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: While I think that in the U.S. or in different countries, people like no, we want to preserve what we have.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of people are scared of change.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're scared.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then all of a sudden, you change things.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, oh, you're bastardizing the culture and the food.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that there's less risk.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: But meanwhile, you had this like spring spring world is you're cool, and that it's like modern, but yeah, there's no new ingredients.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, not at all.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the way they're putting it together.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was like, oh, this is awesome.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I want to try that.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: So good.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: What else is coming from Vietnam that you know of?
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me think about.
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to think, like, I do know.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when was the last time you were in Vietnam?
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: January, February, January.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, my whole thing, whenever I go to Vietnam, was like, I am going to eat a dish that I've never had before.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try something.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I did that for a month and I gained 10 pounds.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, there's so many dishes.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I'm trying to circle through them.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like, I mean, what's the coolest, what's the last thing that you tried to Vietnam?
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so I'm going to answer that honestly.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like to try new things because I go to Vietnam to try the things that I love.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the problem with me going towards County.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: When I go to Orange County, there's like a handful literally a handful of restaurants that I go to.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Had that has me clang, but now, right?
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: The more way.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: My mom was like, why don't we try different things?
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because I live in LA and I don't get to eat those dishes.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe the reason why we're not evolving.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: is because people like me, or stuck in their boomer away.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's your boomer away, it's their, you've answered your own question.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now I, you, you are the problem, you help me answer my own problem.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because I never thought about it, but you're right.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I am the problem.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not a boomer by the way.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: to come and like put something in front of you and be like, hey, try this or doesn't it dish sound amazing?
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, so I think, yeah, I do think there is, there are Vietnamese chefs, the world is small and it's not even just in the U.S.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm connected with the bunch of chefs around the world that are doing very cool things.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's like, I don't know, there's like maybe 10 of us.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think the ability to evolve is very expensive, actually.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is very good.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think about it.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: On the cost perception and ingredients, all of that.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: And experimenting it, putting it out there, like, how do you even, yeah.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: What is the impetus for change and creation?
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was very nervous cooking at the event two weeks ago because Vietnamese people are ruthless when it comes and so the amount of old aunties that were coming to me and telling me that like they liked my food, I was like, oh my god, like it's
• 39:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so scared to cook for my parents, even though they're the most supportive people, whether they like it or not, they'll tell me that they love it, but like my aunties and every, I'm so nervous to cook for my family and to cook for a whole group of old Vietnamese, O-C-V-V-O!
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the funny thing is those old aunties, a lot of more parents find out singers, you know?
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, my parents a little lost it.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, uh, I'm not calling cookie in an old auntie.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a cookie in was there and chocolate in was there about 100 was there.
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like all these people were there and there were singers amongst those singers.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, not as popular, but yeah, so those old aunties were like, yeah, we're eating your food.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I love it.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you come up with, you know, like for that event?
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you come up with these dishes, knowing that there is a scrutiny?
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's hard.
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think oftentimes I try to think about like, well, what I like to eat and what is close enough to home, like, as in the day things just need a taste good.
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think as lines at taste good and they try it.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, oh, okay, like never really thought about it like this before.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: going back to better.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, even for me when I made the moon cool, just putting it in a little cup, I also think about how people are eating things.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're standing to the little play, or they hovering to the table, so it's like eatability is a very big one.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's like some dishes that night, I think, did really well.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Other dishes, like...
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just didn't do as well as I hope, you know, and so that's the hard part about when you're constantly creating new dishes, it's like they don't always turn out the way you want it to.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you realize you're like, one of the newest?
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Generations of Vietnamese chefs in the world that's like on the map, right?
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you do the body.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
• 41:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's probably like hasn't crossed your mind at one point, right?
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: You're just like doing your work.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like as I was researching the things to talk about with you, yeah.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: The idea of you being
• 41:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: One of the newest generations of Vietnamese chefs on the mainstream in America.
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a kind of exciting idea.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: But you realize that you're on that cutting edge.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you ever think about consider these things?
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's funny because like sometimes I'll call my parents and tell them about certain things that happen.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And to that, there's like, oh, you're a celebrity.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're a celebrity now, you know?
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, they, they freak out more than I do because it's like, you know, living in a way you're kind of just in it.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like for me, like running all the businesses and I'm doing and I'm, you know,
• 42:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: No time to think about it, yeah.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: No time, but now I do know, like, you know, people have to take photos with me.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: People, like, as the event, someone looked at me and just screamed, I was like, oh my God.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, that's never happened to me before.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's, I can feel the change happening.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think in terms of Vietnamese food, I think it's just very exciting.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I will eventually open a restaurant.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know when.
• 42:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know when.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, this is an open of another hour of discussions here, but like yeah, I think that like there I just like for the community for me for my family There's just so much that I want to do with Vietnamese food.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, it's like that's like big.
• 43:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's like yeah Well, this is the the next part the last part is
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: When I think about the economics of opening up a restaurant today, and labor shortage, right?
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: In the same.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have issues finding my good.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, especially in Los Angeles, like it's so sad seeing how many restaurants are closing right now.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Decimated.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I think like, you know, from everyone got affected by the pandemic, but us with the strikes and the palaces fires and everything like it just is a very hard time for the city and restaurants.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: But if you don't have a lineage and a continuation of chefs in kitchens and in kitchens because they're all they're all crumbling.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, am I wrong in that?
• 44:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think for sure, LA is a hard place too to do fine dining because it's just not a fine dining city.
• 44:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you can do like higher, like,
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's also a lot of gimmicky restaurants here, you know, very expensive restaurants, beautiful decor, very mediocre, if not bad food.
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you're competing with restaurants like that that are very like chef-focus that don't really have the same sort of budgets for marketing and things.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so,
• 44:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I also feel like cities where I feel like thrive in their culinary scene.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I either have like very good culinary schools where it's like, you get those schools and those students and then they start stagging or entered at like high end restaurants and then you get a lot of things in between.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: People have worked at very fine dining restaurants.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I'm going to open something more casual.
• 44:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, but I'm going to use a lot of those things that I've learned to for my casual concept.
• 45:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like LA, you have a lot of casual.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'll have a son of people want to go find dining.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like, you didn't learn the skillset to then get to that level.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now you're just putting caviar and gold leaf on things.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like charging people hundreds of dollars.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I think that's my problem with a lot of LA.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds very elegant.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then people pay for it too.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like, and then these great restaurants are closing and it kills me.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Ellie is so full of fluff like that.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So fluffy, you know, great city for opportunities.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can do that.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And also, you have this crazy business that makes a ton of money.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, it's like, it's great for that.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like,
• 45:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like as a restaurant owner right now, it's tough.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's tough.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of people are closing down.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Totally.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Does that make you feel like the future of fine dining is probably one they're going to go away?
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Or do you think like you're pretty confident that it's going through changes right now, but eventually it will get better.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it depends on the city.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think if you're, you know, I'm just basing it off of things, places where I live, so I'll use New York and Paris as an example.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Paris, I think it's still thriving.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can get really good one, I mean, when I live there, a really good one, Micheal and Stargmiel for lunch, like 50 euros.
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's way more accessible over there.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think in the States, I think because we put a price tag on things, anything that feels high end, there's this crazy, lux price tag on it.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, you know, you go to like no much, 1500 to like, it's crazy, you know?
• 46:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I don't, I think so many, I think is also like over $1,000 per person, the only three missions are restaurant in LA.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to do fine dining here, but also the price is ridiculous.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Granted, yes, things cost way more in the US labor, all of it.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think fine dining, if I talk about LA specifically, yeah, I don't know.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going to happen within the city.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because like, you also need the people to appreciate it, too.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think like LA, we just like things are just more casual here.
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: the beach.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Really?
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I do go in a morning walk to the beach to the ocean almost every egg.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I lift five blocks from the ocean and I did that intentionally because I'm like the ocean just makes me happier.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't I just lift closer in the ocean?
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why can't I just walk there?
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, this just makes me happy.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I did.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so happy that you
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's way more expensive.
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's not great food options compared to the east side, but the ocean just makes me happy.
• 48:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so that it's like it's very calming for me.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I've built community here.
• 48:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So one thing that I didn't have, I had a lot of community in New York and I didn't have any community in Europe and living there and that was like this, I'm just gonna focus on cooking, but then I didn't have that human connection and it can be a very lonely place when it's just like your, you don't have that like interpersonal and like people you can just call up and hang out with.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when I moved to LA,
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a community of L.A. A lot of different communities took me in and we're like here, like, what me show you this and this and that and I really appreciate my L.A. community.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's different from New York.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's a different time period like in New York.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've partyed a lot.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like I was most fun in my 20s.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: In LA, it's like people like are still really outgoing very fun, but people have like businesses, people have homes, people have like, but it's just like it's a different network that I have here.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I ask all this because it all plays into like the life of a chef really influences I feel like the taste, the decisions all of the vibe that you bring to the table is a result of all the experiences you you you go through living in the city that you live in
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, definitely.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think LA, it's great for all these different communities here.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Going to tie town, you're like, okay, but like what region of Thailand do we want to eat from, you know?
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like little Ethiopia and all these like even like going to little Saigon and all these places that it's just like, you don't just have like New York, you have that one great restaurant in that neighborhood.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have whole communities here.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I love about LA.
• 50:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, um,
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have really accomplished a lot.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Bondal, the NASCAR, Chopped, Top Chef.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: You've mentioned opening up a restaurant one day, but do you have other dreams within the food space that you think about?
• 50:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think I've hit it.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and like, but a lot of these dreams are dreams I didn't even dream up like I didn't even dream big enough, you know, never thought I'd be polite like the whole NASCAR thing like that is starting with NASCAR and then there's in so which is like they're higher and tier where they like,
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: They race like sports cars, Porsche, Lamborghini, things like that.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, because they don't go in there, there's about a lot of off-roading stuff.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we want to do kind of the whole vertical space of motor sports.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that can turn into something crazy.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what does opening a Vietnamese restaurant look like?
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how is that going to change culture and change the way that people view Vietnamese food?
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Top chef, I didn't dream that big.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, there's so many things that can happen.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, you hear about all this like manifestation and affirmations all the time and mantras.
• 51:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: You don't do any of that stuff, right?
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: You sound like it.
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like when top chef reached out to me, I knew I was gonna get on.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hands, I was like, I'm gonna get on.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I sometimes will say things before it actually happens.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is going to happen.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so there is that level of confidence.
• 51:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Looking it out there.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but there's also, it's like a level of confidence too of just like, I just know I'm gonna, it's gonna happen for me.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like, most of the time it does.
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: because that's kind of like the key of all of this manifestation is people who say that you have to know, you just have to know like without a doubt.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have doubt that it's not going to happen.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's now at this point in my life that would be the outliers that it didn't happen versus it is going to happen.
• 52:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: And we're not even going to talk about the outcome, because it's too early, right?
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's too early.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's too early to talk about the outcome.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, although I do want to talk about it, but like the mindset that you come to the table with, these outcomes is phenomenal.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's like, you know, you have to take micro risk to build that confidence and to build trust, whether it's trust another person or trust within yourself and I feel like I figure that out really early on, so I'm always taking these little risk all the time.
• 52:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you mean you figured it out early on like.
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, if I reach out to this, you know, something as small as like for top chef, for example, like I don't think like I never thought it wasn't going to get it, but like let me just take this risk and like what I'm going to say or when I'm going to do or like even when I'm competing on the show of like
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, like I made mochi in an hour, you know, like I made mochi in an hour and then I end up winning against like my whole peers like for that challenge.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's about like doing these things that just feel a little uncomfortable.
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like putting yourself out there because like a lot of people are very scared to put themselves out there or to go that little extra bit that gives you those little butterflies and I'm always searching for the butterflies.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: or you're going into the fire, if I once I feel that fire that I know I'm doing something right I'm like okay I'm in the right place because so I'm looking for it and a lot of times whether it's going after the fire or even putting out that ask or that uncomfortableness because most people aren't even if I'm the only like just from that one step that just puts me in front of so many people
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: you so much for sharing.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's awesome.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there's parallels to everybody who are successful.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: These kinds of like little details.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: The tiny little things that you do that making massive difference.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's not like somebody sat you down and said, all right, well, I'm gonna teach you like these little points, but every time I talk to people who have reached these levels, it's all the same.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the same pattern that shows up.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I already knew, I already, you know, I already, I didn't have to really, there's no doubt.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they just believed that they're gonna just believe it.
• 54:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then it happens.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's funny because, you know, my sue chefs now for NASCAR, they like to throw my name off there because like sometimes they'll be like, like, whittle things of like, yeah, like someone said a no and then I'll be like, yeah, okay, well, you know, I'm gonna tell Chef to win and then whatever and then a lot of later and then they're like, oh wait, Chef from top chef and they're like, yeah and then it turns into a yes or.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: will be driving, for example, there's so many security checkpoints on a NASCAR track, and sometimes we won't get our credentials until like two days later, and we're going like in the middle of the track.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like we're like five security checkpoints in, I just go in.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, they're like, Chef, how'd you do that?
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like,
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just go like, no one ever stops me.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were like, every time we had a point, they always held us to go around.
• 55:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: They never let us in.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, you just gotta believe, like, you belong here that like, and it's something that small that I never have a problem going through security.
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: But did this happen as a young person for you?
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, do you recall like maybe like as a 12 or a 10 year old girl that these things were like,
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: did it happen already, and you're just kind of living that out.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's funny because like a moment that I could really feel that was in high school where so there was like when people graduated and what college you would go to you would just they would put it on the wall and there was like this massive sheet of paper and they were everybody's name, what college they went to and
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I still couldn't really figure out where I wanted to go to college and so they put like the local community college like if you didn't say where you were going to go, they just put the local community college on there.
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember looking at that and being like, well, I'm not going there, but I also don't know I want to do, but I also know they want to be someone great.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I remember I tore my name off and someone wrote my name again right next to it like when BCC and I just remember being like, I'm going to fucking come back here and I'm just going to I don't know what I'm going to do but I'm just going to be someone.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: and it's funny because now since I've been on top chef and I posted something on my Facebook and I'm probably posted on Facebook in years, all the same people are just like, hey, just love watching you, love like you know.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not a very resentful, I don't hold a lot of things, but
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are certain moments like that that remember like I feel is pretty good.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: See, and I think it's really interesting as a parent for me when I think about my kids.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, because my mom's like, why don't you spend more time with them to guide them to some academic.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, my brother and I didn't go to that.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: You don't sound like you went through that, right?
• 57:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, there's a lot of badass people that I talked to.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't even say the majority of badass people I talked to had no idea what they, I think the most important thing is like to...
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: to expose young people to like the possibilities that are out there and not pigeonhole them until like a medical profession or a legal profession.
• 57:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just to expand what you can do and just leave it up to like.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: chance to chance.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's obviously, that probably sounds hard.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, is that hard for you to do with your daughter?
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you just let her?
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's sometimes it's hard sometimes it's because of laziness.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes it easy, right?
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: That in that way it's easy because it's like, all right, cool.
• 58:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can just rationalize that the universe will take care of her, right?
• 58:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it and my son.
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: But when I look at my brother, he was like, I'm not trying to put him on blast with 2.2, which I think I graduated with like a 3.0 or something.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: But we had no direction, zero direction to go to college.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: We both ended up at USC.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: But that was like, you know, our so many of our peers were like 4.2, 4.5 students and went to Irvine, right?
• 58:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: But these things are like,
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: And now I'm listening to your story.
• 58:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, it doesn't make any sense.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So my parents were my dad and incredibly strict parent.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: We had a tutor since I was eight.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: We spent all of our summers at the library doing summer prep programs in high school.
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, all of my time was accounted for until, like, from the moment I woke up to the time to bed.
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so my dad wanted the doctor and all those, like, at the same time,
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: They also exposed this to maybe not intentionally, but by putting us in all these programs and college prep things, that it was just like, oh wait, there's so much other shit that I want to do.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, I'm sure my parents freaked out.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I moved to New York City when I was 18, I didn't really have a college plan.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm gonna just figure it out.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: my parents did not pay for anything for anything the first six months because they wanted me to run out of money so I moved that home but like I got a coffee shop job and like we had a friend that a right control department and so home like hooked me up and so like my parents are like well does the same like she's gonna go home and I did ended up like I went to like a like a city college and I was like I'm just gonna make it work and
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, okay, well, it seems like she's figuring it out.
• 1:00:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess we'll support her now.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: But like, yeah, they wanted me to fail, but it just wasn't in me to fail.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's crazy.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then when I look at my kids, I'm like, as long as they're in the fight, the dog fight in them, if they have that fight, they're really fine, because they're gonna figure out what they like and go for it.
• 1:00:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's no sense in trying to figure this out for them.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, because they will be who they're meant to be.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, and thank you so much for sharing today.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think if we listened to the tape of what we did two years ago, so different.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So different.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope in a few more months and years that we can come back and have our next conversation, and it will be even more crazy.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, crazy.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what I'm hoping.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Brooke.
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: So, thank you.
• 1:01:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, so much fun.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for listening to the Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Katherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
• 1:01:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at the Vietnamese Podcast.