Latest / The Accounting Leads Now Podcast / This Accountant Built His Own Payroll Software, Because No One Else Would - With Brian Clare

Transcript

This Accountant Built His Own Payroll Software, Because No One Else Would - With Brian Clare · The Accounting Leads Now Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Most accounting firms talk about innovation, very few actually build it.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest isn't just running a firm, he's architecting the future of how firms operate.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's killed time tracking, scrapped hourly billing, and walked away from revenue that didn't align with his vision more than once.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Then instead of waiting for someone else to solve the payroll problem for Canadian accountants, he's launched his own software.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is the story of how tinkering with your systems can lead to new, entire new companies, of how turning down the wrong clients creates space for the right breakthroughs and how to build a firm that doesn't just survive the future but shapes it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Founder, builder, reluctant, outbounder, relentless experimenter.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Today on CFO Chronicles, we sit down with Brian Clare, CEO of Blueprint Accountant.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Brian, welcome to the show.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I got goosebumps listening to that one.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had goosebumps reading it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Brian.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great to uh so great to have you on here, man.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: We had the chance to connect in Vegas.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: No pun intended at Connect.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that was awesome.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: How have you been since getting back from the the warm Vegas weather now being back in the cold Canadian weather?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I want to go back just just to be in the warmth, honestly.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sitting here in my my polo and I'm like, I should have probably put on a sweater.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: What am I doing?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look, let's uh let's get right into it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to hear a hot take right out of the gate.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's the most overrated advice accountants are still following, and why is it holding them back?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I mean, I I guess I'd have to say the the hourly billing argument, maybe.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's not a hot take anymore, but I I think uh you know, you look at some of the pricing gurus out there and they talk a lot about you know three-tier pricing, value pricing, fixed fee pricing more.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: But uh a lot of accountants still bill hourly.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: So waste of time, in my opinion.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're tracking your time.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: People are generally not good at tracking it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're focusing on the work they're actually doing, maybe they're not using a timer.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Then they're like, when did I actually start that?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was around 11, maybe.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, I'll just write down some time here.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, you don't you end up not having really a great time tracking, and and that can convert into uh not having the correct revenue, for example.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's focus on the fixed fee billing and the value billing.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And also if you're really good at what you do and you're doing it faster year after year after year, because you're elevating your skills, you're essentially getting paid less.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Which makes no sense at all.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also want to take a moment, Brian, to mention, I'm pretty sure I and I apologize if someone was before us that I'm I'm overlooking in our guest list, but I think you might be our first Canadian who've come up who's come on the podcast.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go, Canada.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: We love that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you've also said being an accountant led you to start building for accountants.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: What was the exact moment where you knew you were meant to create more than just a firm?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oof.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I guess it's kind of like a lead up of let's say my entire life.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um my parents were in the IT industry.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: They both worked sort of in in different roles there.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got a lot of experience uh working with computers and kind of seeing process development.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh my mind just kind of goes there.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like an engineering mind, I feel, but I'm an accountant, I don't know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, just kind of tinking around with different software and seeing how I run things inside of my firm and talking with other firm owners, uh, just having these different ideas like cardboard and obviously payday here, which I'm sure we'll eventually talk about.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so that that sort of just led me to wanting to build these different softwares and trying to help accountants out as and be more efficient and effective with the work that they're doing.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: It it's also just I mean, it's so smart.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're in the industry, you're hearing of all the problems in the industry.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: You so just build a solution that is also going to help solve every solve all those problems of the people you're working with and for your own firm.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to, trying to.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's incredible.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So when you first launched Blueprint back in 2018, what did you think you were building and how has that evolved over the years?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oof, that's a long time ago.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think initially I just wanted some freedom.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I bounced around to a bunch of different jobs before then in different industries, never really found something that I was super interested in.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Probably healthcare was the one that I was most interested in.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: I worked there uh at a hospital for like two and a half years, but um, yeah, just wanted some freedom, you know, talking with different uh business owners and accountants out there.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think most people want that when they start a firm, but also uh they feel like they can serve the small business industry a lot better.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'd say those were kind of the two um points that guided me, I guess we'll say, towards starting my own firm.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, since then it's definitely changed a lot over the years.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I had had two previous partners, went up to, you know, 12 or 13 employees, uh, split off.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm at seven, including myself, and just kind of continuing to grow and refine things as I go and you know, learn from people like you and other uh operators in the industry.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's been one of the most surprising things?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's again probably a tricky question, but like what's what's one of the most surprising things to you being on this journey since 2018 of running your own firm or just building up a couple different businesses now, and we're gonna get right into payday.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like what's been one of the most surprising things, I guess?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's pretty vague.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was probably uh unprepared, let's say, for the amount of uh involvement with people.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know obviously I'm I'm dealing with clients day to day, and but uh the actual people side of running a business is probably more work than actually doing the work.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I'd have to agree.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I like everyone, I think for the most part, they get into a business because they're good at the skill, and like, oh, I can do this on my own, but then you need to bring on a team to do it at scale, and then all of a sudden you're not really spending as much time doing the thing you were good at that you originally went into, and it's a lot of the management, and I'll say from my side, that's been hands down the hardest part, and something that's I've gotten a lot better, and there's still so much room to grow.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, but it's it's it's managing people, it is hard.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a complete upskill of everything that you're used to doing.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just have to learn all these new skills and dealing with different people's personalities, and I mean, you know how it is.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: You have employees too.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you is that something like how how have you gone about elevating your skill set when it comes to management of people?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know like for me, I was like, Oh, how hard could it be, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, everyone talks about being a leader, grew up playing hockey, would lead a team, if you will.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, I could lead a team.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've done it on hockey teams before.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a little rah-rah in the dressing room.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that hard, but no, it at least for me, anyways, totally different skill set.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do to elevate your your leadership skills?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you invested in courses?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it certain books you read?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: How have you elevated your game?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's probably more on the book side, but then also just talking with different uh firm owners and business owners and kind of you know seeing how they do things, almost like, hey, this is a situation that I've seen in my firm.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how would you deal with something like that?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but definitely I I read way too many books.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, not so much the last probably few months because I've been so busy with uh with a lot of stuff going on, but you know, a lot a lot of leadership books, a lot of psychology.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm super interested in psychology because that was actually my first degree that I did in university.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, just books and people talking to people, I guess.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you you've admitted to talking or sorry, talking.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You've admitted to taking on wrong clients early on.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've all been there.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, chasing revenue that wasn't a fit.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: What did those lessons cost you?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how has that changed your intake strategy today?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: My sanity, I'd say.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: That one wasn't a hard one for you to answer.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I like it's you know, you I think everyone uh, you know, thinks that they can help any client.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably a very common trait of a lot of accounting firms, uh, firm owners, and and even employees in the firms.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so learning that lesson, you know, over probably the I guess the last seven years since I started, it took a while for sure.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I took my bruises, but you kind of look back and do retrospectives and see like what actually did happen here.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Was it a good fit, or did we mess up, or did they mess up?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like being honest about that kind of stuff.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, now it's like defining who do we actually want to work with.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So like we work with you, right?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're one of our clients.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we like working with you, like you're very forward-thinking.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, and I think that's probably one of the bigger like traits that we look for.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably that, and like they're not an asshole.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say that out if you want, but so we have we have kind of like those two major things that we look for, and then and then just like some a little bit around the industry side, uh, certain industries we won't work with at all because we've just taken those bruises over time.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, just focus it a little bit more, be a little more honest with what we can actually provide to clients, and then and then just make sure we say no when we should.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that is a big one.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: That one also is a lesson that took me a long time to learn.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Still learning it from time to time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I still trip over that, you know, that same mistake from time to time.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, we need to be more strict on like you said, who do we want to work with?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Who are we best able to serve?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're if we're saying yes to someone else, we're really doing us a disservice, and more importantly, we're doing that client a disservice because it it just won't be a match from day one.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes saying no can be tricky.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't for me, it is, anyways, and it's coming across the right way.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I I try at least now, if if they're not a fit, who who can I connect them with or what resource can I leave them with so they're not just left you know on an island because they they came looking for help.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to at least make sure they're they're getting something of value.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally agree with that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about payday.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you got the hat on.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You just had was it the official launch a couple weeks ago in Toronto?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was uh November 4th.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Me and Rachel went down to Toronto just uh at the AccountEx Canada conference was going on.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we rented out a restaurant, brought some people in, showed them kind of what it looks like, and then since then we've just been going crazy and you know working crazy hours on it and trying to get things ready for January 1st.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So launching a Canadian payroll company, not a small feat.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: What was the gap you saw in the market that made you go, all right, screw it, we're we're gonna just build it ourselves.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think it's just like no apps are doing what we're doing.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that sounds a little brazen, let's say, but um you know, you look at a lot of these other payroll softwares and they say they're for accountants, and yeah, they can run payroll, but when you actually go look at the tools that accountants use, they're not embedded in the payroll softwares, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if I look if I log into any payroll software right now, I'm probably just getting a client list.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, click on 9-2 Media and go run their payroll.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty much it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a bit more of a focus around the accountant uh industry or channel.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And because you know, me and Rachel are accountants and we run payroll for our clients, we know exactly what we need out of that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're starting to build uh it's two products actually.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't expecting that, but uh payday hub is one of them.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a dashboard for uh clients, and you can bring in anyone from any software, and uh you have different metrics available to look at what's going on across all the clients, and then obviously we have the payroll side to actually go and run that payroll.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, how are you managing all of your time now?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you got blueprint on one hand, you got payday, a new a new baby that you're you're bringing into the world.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where where do you find the time?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: How are you how are you how are you I'm guessing there's not enough, it feels like there's probably not enough time in the day.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, I worked till uh 11.30 last night just on some hub spot stuff.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, it's it's a pretty mixed bag of time for sure.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have some pretty structured times with family specifically.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that I can't work, you know, between 6 to 9 and like 4 to 7.30 p.m.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: In between there, it's just you know, gangbusters on uh any work that I can get done.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: On the blueprint side, like luckily I have a really good team.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, Renee specifically, who's the accounting manager on my team, she manages pretty much all the day to day.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm doing any of the like the marketing and uh and sales stuff, and then just kind of the background ops and admin things.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um payday stuff, luckily I have a great co-founder in Rachel, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So she's kicking ass as well.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a really good uh dev team out in Australia, and uh just kind of pushing things along, and you know, her and I get along extremely well.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're very well aligned on how we want to grow this thing, and then just sort of givvying up the work and figuring out who's gonna do what and just keep pushing forward.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let let's get into the the marketing a little bit.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I can't remember if we may have even spoke about this uh at that uh that party in Vegas, but you you said you've tried outbound, it didn't go that well.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: What what made it flop if you could pinpoint it?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what did that experience teach you about growth that referrals can't?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was probably me, to be honest, doing the outbound.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like not that I'm bad at it, uh I just couldn't get in a like a regular cadence of calling people, like doing cold calling.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I actually did I hired a coach, he's a friend of mine who has like 20 years of experience in cold calling.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so he kind of worked calling.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know, and he's worked for like some big SaaS organizations, right?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think one of them was like Cloudflare, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a huge, huge SaaS.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um so he gave me some you know a little bit of training on how that works and creating scripts and stuff like that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, just kind of getting into the flow of like sitting down and calling, you know, a hundred people and trying to uh trying to trying to get them on board for that, like that was a struggle for me, I would say.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: The actual building of workflows and and kind of email sequences and whatnot, like I can do that in my sleep.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty straightforward.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I think it was the the actual calling piece, which was the struggle.
• 15:15
  unknown: Okay.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what uh what are you guys doing now in terms of growth?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like what marketing works best for for blueprint and what marketing you know is working best for payday right now.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh blueprint less so on the outbound, probably more again around referrals and then a lot of like SEO.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the website's been working well for that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: People are finding us based on some of the niches that we work with.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, I don't like I don't have a phone number for blueprint.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I I do, I just don't advertise it.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm my skin, my skin's crawling over here, but I'll actually we'll talk about that one offline, maybe.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think you have my cell phone anyway, so but um yeah, like I my my whole focus is like uh I mean, you know me, like I'm like streamlining operations and like trying to get data into you know different places so I can do other things with it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: But for for Blueprint, it's like everything goes through the website, right?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So even if someone emails me, um, you know, even I'll just go punch in their details and then it you know kicks off a bunch of stuff for us for us to um start our sales process.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, everything's coming through, I guess, referrals and and um some of that inbound stuff through the website.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: For payday, it's probably a bit more outbound right now.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we were that's something I was doing last night was was uh talking with Rachel about like an outbound engine.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know, we're on HubSpot for our CRM and marketing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I was looking at like HeyReach.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you're familiar with that, it helps with like LinkedIn uh messaging.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Apollo, you know, looking up people's emails and finding you know people in our target market, but um a lot of the marketing we've been doing lately is just posting on LinkedIn.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you've probably seen me active on there and talking about payday and you know different aspects about um payroll.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been pretty good.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like people have been signing up through the website and getting on our wait list and um getting people into the the closed beta, uh, you know, trying to hit that January 1 start date.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's been the focus, but definitely, you know, Rachel and I are having those conversations around doing some outbound, so we'll see where that one goes.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a tough platform now more than ever, and it'll just continue to be more difficult as time goes on, but it's still so effective.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: We still have a lot of clients we do a lot of outreach for on LinkedIn, and it works.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had I posted a story or case study the other day.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Even for us, we reached out to someone, say at like 11:30, they responded.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: 12:30, we had a call booked by 3:30, they were a paid client.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, like it works, yeah, but you're you're knocking a lot of virtual doors, you're taking a lot of no's, but that's fine.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the people who say yes, and you you build your network, and as you continue to post on LinkedIn, you just get more eyeballs on what you're doing.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a long-term play, it's very similar to SEO, and I think a lot of firm owners who try it, they just expect like immediate results, and it just doesn't work like that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then no marketing does.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're it's very rare that you'll send a message to someone and they're like, This is exactly what I need, and they sign up right then, right?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I 100% agree with you.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little more of a long-term play, and it's all volume as well, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've spoken to some firm owners like, Oh, yeah, I reached out to 10 people and you know it didn't get anything awesome.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: 10x that, 100x that.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then look at the numbers.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm um it's cool to hear that you guys are doing that and you're you're posting on LinkedIn because that is a big piece that a lot of people forget about is tap into the existing network you have and be consistent with it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I see you guys stuff all the time, and it's great, and and keep doing it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, thanks.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is um what's the thing that keeps you up at night?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the hardest thing about running a firm?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I think it just goes back to the people, to be honest.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like whether it's it's client, the client stuff you're dealing with or like internal conversations with the team.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I probably those are the things that that'll keep me up.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, I'm running a business, so I want to be profitable, and so cash flow is always a consideration.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, I'd probably say the people.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you encourage a lot of firm owners to air quote tinker.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: How do you actually make time for experimentation and and what's something surprising that comes from it?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm, probably over the years I would take actual dedicated time and spend hours and hours tinkering.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that could be either throughout the day or or just you know in the evenings after I've uh put the kids to bed.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, now because I've sort of built that skill, if I see something that's interesting, I'll just go tinker for like 15 minutes and I can generally figure out if It's gonna be uh, you know, something to to actually invest in.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's where I'll sort of take it back.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And usually it's in the evenings now.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: After again, after the kids are in bed, I'll I'll kind of tinker away.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So like the HubSpot stuff last night that I mentioned, I think I spent like four hours on it just setting up different workflows and whatnot and and kind of tinkering around and seeing how um how I can make it work for um Payday's outbound engine.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, I guess the the advice for people is just like go go do it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Just like anything, right?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: You actually have to get your hands dirty and and get in there and play around with things before you can figure out if it's actually gonna work, and it will take time to actually build that muscle with with anything.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I for me it it's uh it comes and goes, but that's I think one of the most enjoyable parts about running a business is like that tinkering, the the creative part of all right, I'm gonna go build this thing, or I'm gonna go build this outbound sequence, or this new reactivation campaign.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna try like in my world, we're gonna build this ad or whatever it is.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: It might work, it might flop.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Either way, we're gonna get some data and then we're gonna know what to do or what not to do next time.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I think it's pretty fun.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I would work for other people's businesses in the past, yeah, you could build something, and if it worked, like you're more or less probably still getting your hourly wage and didn't really make much of an impact.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Where I don't know, now like that tinkering piece, or it's like, wow, we just bought back so much time for all of our team members, we're that much more efficient now.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I get excited about that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's the moments when there's the excitement behind it and it doesn't feel like work.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And trust me, there's a lot of days where it does, and it's like, okay, I'm doing this because I I feel like I need to, but it's the days where it doesn't feel as much like work that that's really fun with that tinkering stuff.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm guessing that four hours probably just flew by.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, easily.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I look up like, oh, it's 11:30, I need to go to bed.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, in your view, what separates the firms that adapt and innovate from the ones that quietly fade out or plateau?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would say it's kind of the networking and and like talking with other firm owners and being open to those discussions.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I think probably because you you've been to Connect now.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is that your I think that was your first time, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: First time in Vegas, first time to Connect.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I I didn't have going to Vegas for an accounting conference for the first time on the bingo card, but it it was a blast.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but like I'm sure you probably realize like a lot a lot of people actually do connect there and share ideas, and it's a lot more open than I think a lot of people realize.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I've I've definitely heard of firm owners where they're probably more on the traditional side.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, oh, I can't share like my secret sauce or like talk about kind of how we do things because maybe they feel like uh someone will do it better.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, to me, I think it's the it's that networking and getting out and kind of talking with people and sharing your ideas, and then people will be more open to share their ideas as well.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh and yeah, just like putting time aside to do your own research and and kind of build up those research muscles, those tinkering muscles, that kind of thing, and and just get in and do some of the dirty work, I guess.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: That that's something I noticed um attending as say the the owner of a marketing company, but interacting with so many firm owners and different software founders.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's the abundance mindset like you were mentioning.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's so many potential clients out there for everyone who is at Connect, for everyone in the industry.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to hold back your secret.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I go to a lot of marketing conferences, and everyone is so open to share everything that's working for them, even with a handful of people in their same industry, because you can't take on every single client, even if you wanted to.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people their firm would break if they're like, hey, here's a hundred clients tomorrow you need to onboard.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: So let me cherry pick the you know, 10, maybe the 30.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you may still put a lot of stress on the team.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I like how open the community was, and just yeah, that abundance mindset, it goes such a long way.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: What what's next for you, Brian?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you got payday running now, or it's getting up and running, blueprints, humming along.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's next?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just I think it's those two things, honestly.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Just keep you know, keep building blueprint, um, you know, adding the right clients, finding the right team members that want to work with us and kind of build along our journey.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then definitely the payday stuff.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm super interested in it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Rachel's stoked about it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we're gonna keep pushing that along, and and we really do think we have something special for the accounting industry to use.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's so exciting.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, two two last questions for you then.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: What would be your advice to anyone who has their their business running along now?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's pretty stable, it's in a good place, and they're looking to spin something else up.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: How how would you recommend they start divvying up their time?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if you're if it's a firm, I would say you need someone to run operations for you in the day-to-day, because otherwise you're just gonna be stuck doing client work always.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you have someone like I do, like Renee, where she can go in and kind of manage the team and and kind of keep things moving along, like that's gonna free up a lot of your time.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I even like I hired her way before I needed her because I learned that from you know working with my last two partners that I need someone in that role in order for me to free up time and do sales or marketing or build payday, for example.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's probably the the biggest advice uh I would say is get get someone on board that can run that, and then that'll free up a lot of your time.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I like how you mentioned you hired her before you needed her, because getting an operations manager coming in, that's not a here's a day of training, all right, you're good to go.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that role takes a while to where you can fully let go and be like, cool, I have a hundred percent trust in this individual to take that over.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um I like that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so last question then for you.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Putting me on the spot here.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, best piece of advice I've ever received.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Did I write that in the form?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: I forget, honestly.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, we we leave this one out.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: This one, okay.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is a special question.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I I don't like I don't know if it's uh anyone specifically that said this, but I've definitely heard it many times.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's more around like setting boundaries for yourself.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we kind of talked about a little bit about like cherry picking clients, right?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of that is setting boundaries, and and even in my own life, like because I've blocked that six to nine, four to seven thirty, uh, and even like just taking time off to hang out with the wife as well.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm very strict about that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I tell my team, like, you can message me and I might answer.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but those are those are my boundaries.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's when I'm hanging out with family.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Clients know that too.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not taking meetings then, you know, I block my calendar at these certain times.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I would say like make sure you have good boundaries in place.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's so important.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's the advice I've I I've heard over time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you sharing that.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: The non-negotiables.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: You don't you don't need to you don't need to serve everyone 24-7.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and honestly, it it like the boundaries piece also comes comes uh comes into play with like what are your priorities?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to like you have different priorities than I do, right?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have to agree with what your priorities are, and you don't have to agree with what my priorities are, but as long as I'm setting them for myself, then I can actually create those boundaries.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that also it's such a strong place to come from as a leader for the rest of your team, because you're like, this is what I'm really strict about, and I want you to I want you to have your boundaries as well, because it would be so counterintuitive for you to be like, all right, I'm I'm I'm locked in with my family, these are the things I'm doing between these hours, and then you expect to hear from your team all hours of the day.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that by you demonstrating that empowers your team to also have those boundaries and it just it just rises the whole the whole organization.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, it definitely does.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Brian, thank you so much for coming on.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: How can people get in touch with you?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: How can they find out more about payday?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how can they continue the conversation with you?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say LinkedIn is the first place.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think I hid my last name, but Brian C.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've got a picture on there from like 2018.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you know looking a little younger, but um, yeah, check me out on LinkedIn.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've got my uh you know payday linked as a as a company, and if you want to learn more about that, um you can also check out getpayday.com and it's P A I, not P A Y.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll put those links in the show notes.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Brian, again, thank you so much for coming on, spending the time on CFO Chronicles today.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Really appreciate it.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for having me, James.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you found value in today's conversation.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: First, make sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed today's discussion, please rate and review the show.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: It helps others discover the insights we share here.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnow.com or click the link in the show notes to book your strategy call.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to position yourself as the advisor your clients need.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of CFO Chronicles.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep pushing forward.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Your growth is just one strategic move away.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We hope today's episode provided valuable strategies to help you attract more high-paying clients.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to subscribe, below, and share with fellow professionals.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Connect with us to LinkedIn and leave a review or comment to join the conversation.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Your feedback helps us bring you the best insights in finance and marketing.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, subscribing for such a little bit better, potential.