Latest / Conservation Stories / Cotton on the Global Stage: Liz Hirschfield’s New Role & the Future of U.S. Cotton

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Cotton on the Global Stage: Liz Hirschfield’s New Role & the Future of U.S. Cotton · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign. Hello, friends. This is Hillary Timminsims coming to you again from the Jackalope Creative Studios here in Lovett, Texas, on behalf of the Sandhill Area Research Association. This is another episode of Conservation Stories and we have a returning guest, but she's in a new role and I am excited to talk to her about the new role. So this is Liz Hirschfield. Last time we talked to you, Liz, you had left J. Crew Madewell. You were working with them on different types of sustainability, for lack of a better word, projects. And then you became your own consultant. And then Lacy and I were like high fiving when we heard that you.
• 0:52
  Speaker B: Are now with Cotton Incorporated, Cotton Council International.
• 0:55
  Speaker A: Cotton Council International. Oh, I'm. See, I, you know, actually last night I thought, you know, there is a really good graphic that shows like all of the different.
• 1:04
  Speaker B: We. I have it. It's great.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: It's fabulous. Okay. Yeah, so we might, we might share that with our listeners so that they will understand why I get confused.
• 1:12
  Speaker B: Totally. And it happens all the time. And we're sister organizations and work closely together, so it's not offensive at all.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: All of them work closely together.
• 1:18
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:19
  Speaker A: And there are a lot of them.
• 1:20
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm executive director of Cotton Council International, which is actually the. Sits under the National Cotton Council and is considered, what's considered the import leg of National Cotton Council. So really working to make sure, like, we're growing demand for US Cotton. And, you know, we've got teams, you know, over 70 people working over in over 15 countries around the world, work really closely with the suppliers, the folks are buying cotton, Foreign Agriculture services office, US Government offices in these countries to help like, you know, bring down trade barriers, work on issues, promote US Cotton. Talk about why it's the best cotton in the world. It's most sustainable, most traceable, all the things. Right. And it really is something that, you know, did not occur to me in terms of like, this transition in my career. And as you mentioned, you know, when I was at J. Crew, we, you know, we did obviously got to know you and Lacy and everyone in the industry through the work that we did with regenerative agriculture and working really closely in the US Cotton industry. And from that got really connected to the US Cotton Trust Protocol, which is also under the NCC umbrella. And when I left J. Crew and started my consulting business, actually Cotton Council International asked if I would come speak at some of their events in Asia, which we have events all over, you know, the world almost every month.
• 2:37
  Speaker A: Right.
• 2:38
  Speaker B: For. For a multitude of different reasons. Like workshops, trainings, you know, delegations, just like really keeping the energy up around. And I did that and actually didn't know a lot about CCI when I went on these trips. And I learned so much about what they do. And I thought to myself, gosh, I wish I knew this organization exists when I was on the brand side because I could have been really helpful as we were trying to nominate U.S. cotton and having people tell us it was too expensive and all of these things, you know, this year I kind of had reached out and said, hey, what are some of the speaking opportunities this year? Because I really enjoyed it. And I was told the executive director who was in the position was retiring and asked if I'd like to interview for the role. And I thought, gosh, that's so such an interesting idea. You know, I never really thought about it and it just ended up being the right thing. It was really great. I feel like closing the loop on my career really, you know, the final kind of, you know, you know, the fashion industry for so long, sustainability and then, you know, cotton and agriculture now really being in that community and it's really exciting. And you know, one of the reasons they really liked my background is that I have that brand background. Right. Which is kind of, we know, is very important nowadays. So, yeah, I'm super excited to be, be here.
• 3:45
  Speaker A: So I, I'm, I'm so excited about it. And of course there's a lot of, you know, concern right now about the markets and we have some beautiful cotton that's being harvested right now.
• 3:57
  Speaker B: It's a good year, right?
• 3:58
  Speaker A: I mean, just, just beautiful good year and such bad prices. It's just, it is a shame. I was talking to someone the other day who was saying it that, that I think that the, that the agri life budgets were showing like irrigated cotton was the only thing that, I mean, drip irrigated cotton was the only thing that was showing potential profitability, you know.
• 4:18
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 4:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, so it's, it's really unfortunate.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: I think there's a lot of good energy. You know, I think that, you know, with the farmer support programs and things that, that passed in the last bill that passed this past summer, I felt that that was like the first like bright shining light a little bit like on the road to recovery. You know, there's so much energy around, you know, really building and, and obviously you, the trade situation has been challenging, but it seems like there's going to be some bright spots coming up and we're really focused on, you know, growing demand Honest, to be really quite frank, outside of China, because we don't want to be reliant on just one country. And so the team, there's an amazing team that has, you know, worked for this organization for decades in every country, super passionate, and we're really, you know, really, really diving into, like, a very detailed strategy about how we really grow demand. And a lot of these other countries are now starting to really want to buy US cotton that hadn't maybe been buying as much of it in the past. So.
• 5:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, part of our. Part of. I think what, you know, so many things are connected. And I think, you know, if we were able to help move some things back to some parts south of us, you know, to help build up economies down there, it sure would be, you know, gives people more reason to stay there. There's, you know, there's jobs and there's. There's a life to be lived there, you know, and so would be great to see some of that happen, you know, and return back to that region. And it's not nearly as far.
• 5:47
  Speaker B: I agree. And you're talking about, like, you're talking about Latin America.
• 5:49
  Speaker A: Exactly, right, yes.
• 5:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because there's a lot of interest in Latin America. You know, when I was early on in my career, you know, I started working in the industry when we still had all the denim mills and, you know, North Carolina, and we did a. Most of our denim production was in this hemisphere. And I thought, I'll leave. And it was. It's really sad, but it. That the capabilities are still there and it's a really great place to produce. And I've always produced there, but a lot of brands haven't. And so they. Because when, you know, quota went away and brands just moved all their production and like, a lot of folks that now are managing that work have never done production in that this region. And so the big unlock for them is actually finding garment manufacturers to work in because they don't know where to go. And the thing that's really exciting that our team is doing and be like I mentioned, everyone, pretty much everyone on the team has been with the organization for decades. And we have an amazing director who's over that region, you know, Mexico, central, South America, who's been with the organization for decades and really knows everything about it. And so she started taking like, brands on sourcing tours to helping them connect the dots to find out, because that's what's really, you know, really it's something we're offering to brands, but we also do sourcing fairs and we do one every year in that hemisphere. We just did one, it was in Costa Rica. But you know, bring, you bring all the suppliers together, bring the brands there and they have like these kind of speed dating meetings and people really want to move product back here. Right. And so I think it's really exciting. One of the things of missing pieces or some missing pieces. Right. There's not a great availability of heather yarns anymore. There's not a great availability of like the kind of trims and stuff that you need, but they are there. And we're starting to talk to some of the spinners to say, like, hey, we can get a collective of brands that would commit to, you know, volume if you can start spinning, you know, heather yarns again. And, and, and the brands really need like places to buy buttons and zippers and like paper tags. And those exist. We just have to put it together. So we're really focusing on a more holistic perspective on how do you help the brand source their full product versus, you know, and then that in turn increases. You know, obviously you said US Cotton, so.
• 7:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. So two things you said heather. Did you say?
• 7:50
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 7:50
  Speaker A: Tell us what that is. Heather yarns. Heather yarns.
• 7:52
  Speaker B: So a heather yarn is basically, you know, when you buy something that looks like it's kind of speckled a little bit, it's oftentimes an athletic wear, but it's in other things, you know, it feels like it's like maybe crossed like a gray and a white. It has like a little bit of a texture to it. That's a heather yarn and it's very specified, specific. Right. And even in Asia there's only a handful of suppliers who make them, but they're big and they offer like big volume, but they tend to have really high minimums and they're hard for brands to get into. But I think, you know, in this case, and so in there, and they're hard to do. So I think the demand went down and the spinners in the US just kind of stopped doing them because they didn't have the demand. But we do have. Brands are really interested and I think we could get a collective together to say, hey, like the demand could be there, bring it back. Right. And even you could, they could commit to some basic colors like blue, gray, you know, and maybe black or something, you know, but yeah, and they, you can, you can make a, we call a fake heather, but you cross it with a synthetic and it makes it look like A heather. But they want real cotton. So, yeah, it's possible.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: What, what, what are they going to make out of these? What, what type of they'll make?
• 8:57
  Speaker B: I mean, the brands I've actually been interested in are kind of the athletic brands that are starting to. Actually a lot of these big athletic brands are starting to move, not change their remit, but also add in this kind of more lifestyle collection. Kind of like how Vuori is barely. Come on. Right. And so there's more cotton in it. They want like, you know, maybe like loose sweatshirts and things you can wear out a little bit dressier. But like you're not going to go work out in it. But even for workout clothes. Right?
• 9:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I just this morning saw a video. I think it's cotton. Maybe it's cotton ink, I think has a video on just the waste from synthetic fibers and you know, how much that is leaving in our water supply. And there's so much more science now behind just the health, the problems that these synthetics are, are causing and the disruptions that they're making to the hormone system and, and that kind of thing. And so it's really kind of to say, I agree.
• 9:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:56
  Speaker A: But it's also really cool to be living in an area that can, can provide a solution. You agree? 100 and it's, it's interesting to me. This is just another place where I have seen like this awareness, kind of a global awareness. We have moved from like farmers, you're the problem, to like. Oh, you're actually the solution.
• 10:16
  Speaker B: Yes, exactly. I love it. And we are just. I'm in Memphis right now. We just finished a farm tour with U.S. cotton Trust protocol members, some members. I'm not some interested in it. And they were just blown away. None of it. Only one had ever been to a farm in the United States before and most hadn't even been to a farm. And they were so inspired and couldn't believe just what went into actually farming the cotton and all the technology and how advanced the US Industry is. They were, they left like super excited. So it was really fun to see.
• 10:48
  Speaker A: Well, and I think, you know, this has come up in the podcast before because we've caught, we've talked about the Trust protocol and, and of course you and I have discussed like all the various certifications several years ago was maybe not really that long ago about the, the fraud and that was coming out in India. In India. And, and so I mean that's, I think, you know, if, if brands the way to Me, the way to get what you want as a brand is to find the farmer that's doing what you want. Which is. Which was. I saw the vision that you were building while you were at J. Crew madewell. And. And to me, it's like, it has to be a relational, you know, thing, because you. You need to know and be able to trust that that farmer's doing for you what they say they're doing. And. And I think, you know, I would say, you know, in other countries where you have, you know, people that are like, it's just one acre at a time or half an acre or five acres, and people are still doing things by hand. It's easy for them as a collective to be taken advantage of, you know, and so I feel like if. If. If brands really want the assurance that they're getting what they're looking for, then this is the place to come. That's. They're. We're not having deforestation issues.
• 12:06
  Speaker B: I agree. There's not forced labor issues. I mean, there's just so many things that, like, you just don't have to worry about, which I think is. It's a huge plus, you know, outside of farming practices and how advanced they are. Right. And all the sustainability stuff. So.
• 12:19
  Speaker A: Well, you know, I had. This is my ADD brain thinking, Always thinking about people. So not long ago, we had a fellow recorder recorded an episode of the podcast on H2A labors, and this is this. The program that he's running is. I don't know, to me, it's unique. Maybe there's other people doing. It's a nonprofit. And there was a man in. In. I think. I can't remember if he was in Guatemala or mostly in Mexico. And he saw his neighbors being trafficked, you know, cartel coming in and saying, hey, H2A whatever. And then they're trafficking these people. And he was like, the only way to do this is, like, to set up something so they can do this, but they can do it, like, legally. And then. Then we know that they're safe. And so. So this company in California, they partner with, you know, this guy on the ground to help them. And then not only are they. They doing that, they're like, okay, industry. What exactly do you need us to train for?
• 13:25
  Speaker B: Amazing. And that's great.
• 13:27
  Speaker A: They train them very specifically. One of the. One of my favorite things that he said was, you know, like, part of what we help them understand is that why are we working so hard? Why are we working so many hours? Why are we working on Sunday? And to help them understand that like when the produce is ready, it has to get out and, and otherwise then, you know, there won't be another job for them to come back to you next year. Right. And then they work to make sure that those families stay in contact with each other and then they invest in those communities, you know. And so what would be an interesting.
• 14:01
  Speaker B: Like, it's amazing.
• 14:03
  Speaker A: I love that. Yeah. Wouldn't that be cool that. Because here, like we even just for consistent labor, you know, like just, you know, the tractor driver and you know, the person that it's somebody you need year round, you know, that is just increased so much. I'm seeing it in, in the cotton world increasing use of H2A and boy, wouldn't it be a fun thing to like, hey, where one of those mills is going in? Can we also set up a program to bring some of those folks that need jobs as H2A laborers into. Into the trained and into the States?
• 14:38
  Speaker B: I love that. It's a great idea. Yeah, it's fast. It's a really cool program. I love. It's so smart. And the training piece of it is huge.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, it really is. And, and you know, a lot of our, A lot will come from South Africa and because they have some of those, you know, skills and it's just easier. But it would, it sure would be. You know, if we wanted to expand that and we want people to be able to stay in their communities. I mean, people, they, they come here because they. It's necessary for them to leave.
• 15:06
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:07
  Speaker A: You know, and so if we can make it where it's not necessary for them to leave, you know, and I, I mean, I have a. Speaking as from someone who has a. For an internationally adopted child. I mean, I, I saw the trauma of leaving that. Of the culture that you're born into, you know, and so it's, it is a trauma. I think that's, that's unrecognized, you know, when you leave behind because you, you're choosing to, but because you feel like you have to.
• 15:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, agree. That's definitely something that's not talked about a lot.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I know. Years ago, I. I visited with a man who's retired from the foreign Ag Service, and he talked about how when, you know, all of the, all of that left, particularly somewhere. I can't remember the countries he named down in South America, but they were baking all of our T shirts, cotton T shirts and cotton underwear and cotton socks and all these things. And then it became part of the white House trade negotiations, like, all of a sudden that was. Instead of the Foreign Ag Service dealing with those things, it became a tool for political. And so they wound up. That's how kind of all that got shifted, you know, and then, so now you can just see, like, the. How the dominoes have fallen and where we are. Is this weird how choices always have unexpected consequences?
• 16:23
  Speaker B: Always, Always. They do. You mean you don't know them until they happen. Right, so.
• 16:27
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So I'm hearing we would like to increase, I mean, like, if we could increase the use of cotton by 3%. Yes. This, this is the thing. Tell us, tell us about this 3% thing.
• 16:40
  Speaker B: Well, I think it's just like, you know, obviously we talked about synthetics and they've really taken over. And, you know, there's a lot of reasons why. And I think we, like, we just need to take a little bit of that market share back. We don't need half of it. We just need a little bit. Right. So that 3% would dramat. Just get us to a place where we're kind of like consistently, you know, selling, you know, 15, 16 million bells a year without any, hopefully, weather issues. Right. That would prevent that from happening because we know we've had some issues in the past few years. So the idea of just like, you know, and I think the one thing to be really clear on, like, CCI as an organization and I think, you know, that's like, we can't control the global economy. Right. We can't control what's happening in the fashion industry. And if business starts to downtrend, they start to buy less, and that's going to impact us. Right. So there's things we know that are very much out of our control. But despite that, we want to still really kind of focus in and see how we can continue to grow US Cotton. And I will say it's been really enlightening and exciting as we've been to some of these countries where we went to Pakistan this past summer, and they're very quickly becoming the number two purchaser of U.S. cotton. And they love U.S. cotton. They love it. They buy a lot of Brazilian cotton, too. And, you know, but our team, we have a really great team. They're called the solutions team, and they're technical experts and they do go in to mills and spinners and help them process US Cotton so they can understand the value of it. And ultimately it usually ends up being less expensive or at least cost neutral because the quality is so superior that you get more from, you know, you get a better yield from it. And a lot of these mills and spinners don't know how to do that. And so, like, our solutions seem to spend more time in Pakistan than anywhere because they. Once one mill owner sees the success, they're like, oh, you got to get this guy in. And, yeah, that's just a service that we offer, right? And we offer it only if they're running US Cotton and generally if they're US Cotton Trust Protocol members, because we're really trying to build that up. And so that's something that we. We're really trying to increase exposure to and really market, because it's something a lot of folks don't know now that brands are so focused in on where their cotton's coming from that also obviously, price right now, this is something they're very interested in engaging us with to help go to, you know, their mills and spinners. And so that's just a little piece of kind of the work that we're doing. But, you know, that supports brands, right? I said, like, I wish I knew about cci and I was on the brand side. I'm like, I wish I knew I could have sent this team. And so the mill that was telling me, US Cotton's too expensive, right?
• 18:55
  Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, that's. That is fascinating. So you're really helping them go in and. And figure out how to. How to really utilize it in a way that really helps them economically, totally.
• 19:04
  Speaker B: Helps them compete, and it helps them, you know, it just. It. It. It helps. It's not even that it helps them economically, but it really helps US Cotton because then they see the value in buying it because they also know that it's better quality. You talk to all of them, and they know. They know when they process. I mean, Australia, I would say, is the closest to our quality, right? But other origins, like, they have trouble with. It's inconsistent. That's the issue. Right. Is so consistent. Right?
• 19:26
  Speaker A: What. What is it that we do that creates that consistency?
• 19:30
  Speaker B: Well, it's the classing. USDA classing. It's the fact that we've pretty much rid pests, right, from, you know, the boll weevil and all those things. So you see in other, like, I will say, like, in Brazil, the cotton can be really sticky a lot because they have not eradicated pests. They've not eradicated the boll weevil. It can be inconsistent. It's not quite. It has a yellow tinge to it. And that's actually not. That's just like a regional thing. We believe that's like something in their soil. But. And the thing is, sometimes the mills and spinners who buy it are happy with it, and sometimes they're not. And I think that's the thing that's the biggest unlock is that. But they never have to worry about US Cotton because it's always consistent. They know it, you know, so. And there's a lot of other things too, that we're starting to work on that we're, you know, we're hearing from the industry saying, like, hey, like the spinners in this country, they're buying too high of quality. They're trying to make oe yarns. They don't need to spend that much money. Like, so let's train them on what they need to buy. So all these things help. Help create demand because then they just see the benefit of it. They're like, great. It's consistent. I can rely on it. The quality is great. The brands want it, so it makes it easier, you know.
• 20:29
  Speaker A: Right. Well, one of the things I've, I have heard before, and I mean a lot of what I go on is just like secondhand knowledge because I've never, we never grew organic cotton, but is that the amount that's available is not always consistent. And so it's hard for brands to really. And, but. And I haven't looked at prices, so I don't know what the price of organic cotton is, if it's still. I mean, at one time it was like, yeah, yeah, it's usually high. Are you seeing any interest, like when you're out in, in fields or you're talking to. Where are we on this organic? Because I mean, it seems like now you don't hear as much about organic as you do what people are calling region.
• 21:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's because region is just more scalable and it's more realistic. And as we. We know, organic's hard. And I don't, you know, I think there's a place for it. It's tough in the US because with the size of the farms just makes it difficult. It's easier in countries with these small hold. It is expensive. It always, there's always a premium. It can, you know, the, the quality can vary a lot. And so it's very niche, in my opinion. And there's some brands that go after it like big time and some that just like, it has a place, but it's not something they're.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: They.
• 21:38
  Speaker B: The regenerative thing is much more scalable for them and easier, you know, that, you know, for them from Their perspective.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: So what is it, what is it that brands and retailers believe about region that makes it so appealing to them?
• 21:55
  Speaker B: I think, well, look, and this is not good, but because we want it to be different is right now there's not a huge price difference, right? There's maybe a very nominal price difference in that conventional. It should be a little higher. I've always said. I think it should sit in between conventional and organic and there should be, like a higher price for it. So obviously they like that. It feels like it's more readily available. They like the idea of, like, the practices and like, being able to kind of see that. Right. And there, you know, there are certain brands that are like, nope, no GMO seeds, no, you know, synthetic anything. And I think that's tough in the U.S. right? And I mean, like, what is that?
• 22:30
  Speaker A: Like turkey? Where can you go to get non gmo? Legit, non gmo?
• 22:35
  Speaker B: Well, not. I don't think it's in a country, but I think it's in a certain type of practice. So, like, it's inorganic, organic, doesn't allow GMO seeds. Right. And so there are some countries in the EU that like, don't want anything gmo. And I, you know, I get it with, like, food, but like, that kind of. It's like almost going too far with cotton. Right. And so when these folks come on these farm tours, they really learn a lot about it. I mean, when I first started learning about it originally with the regenerative program, I thought it should be organic and I thought there should be no GMO seeds. I had no idea what I was talking about. And then I started to meet farmers and talk to them and learn more.
• 23:06
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:06
  Speaker B: It all became quite clear that, like, okay, I get it, I understand. And there's a lot of misnomers in the industry and the world about, like, what that means.
• 23:13
  Speaker A: So.
• 23:15
  Speaker B: But so I think it's just still really, it's very niche, and I don't think it's. That type of stuff is going to scale that much as much as the people want it to. And that's why I think regenerative to me is about, like, progress. And you, you kind of ease into, you know, these farming practices that help your soil be more healthy. And then hopefully you don't need as many inputs because your soil is healthy and all these things, you know, are happening, but you still need to have the ability to use them if something's going on.
• 23:37
  Speaker A: So I've said this before, like, I saw a can of soup at Sprouts that was, was $7. It was a re. Region, you know, and then the $3, like, that was organic. And then the dollar that was conventional. And I was like, no one's probably getting paid for that.
• 23:52
  Speaker B: No to 100. Right.
• 23:54
  Speaker A: And. And somebody is just buying a label and they don't have any. Now I will say, you know, like, with regenefied, we are. I feel like now that's a. Here you have a USDA like kind of stamp of approval for. Yes, that's a real, that's a real certification, you know. And so, you know, part of the issue, I think, is just this amount of these certifications and the, the people that are making the money are the people in the middle that are providing certifications. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:26
  Speaker B: And there's definitely something being left out there. Yeah. So I agree, I agree.
• 24:30
  Speaker A: Now, recently I had a conversation with a guy who was like, plant trees. And we're gonna. You guys out there just need to take up all your cotton and we just plant all these trees and you plant these trees and, and we're going to pay you 25% of what it's worth for carpet.
• 24:43
  Speaker B: Great. Such a great. What an awesome opportunity.
• 24:48
  Speaker A: Thanks. Yeah. And I'm thinking that way, how do we get rid of you and just wet trees if this is that big of a deal, you know?
• 24:57
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker A: And so this is funny to me to think that, you know, people still perceive the industry as, you know, people that are more business focused and, and as we get longer, you know, further down the road of industrialization and, and you know, if you aren't focusing on those numbers, you have to, it's like.
• 25:17
  Speaker B: Anything, you know, you have to. I, you know, we were talking and sourcing fair to a brand and about all the work that we're doing and the work that we're doing to buy American cotton Act and all these things are going on to create, like, more demand for US Cotton and I don't know, Act.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: So we'll have to come back to that.
• 25:31
  Speaker B: That. Okay. They said, like, well, isn't it going to make the price go up? And I said, yes, and it needs to go up because the cost to produce cotton is like 30% under what it is selling right now. And if you want cotton to be around, you need to be able to pay a fair price for it. And by the way, the price that needs to go up to is not something outrageous for a brand right. At all. Now, of course, they're absorbing all these tariffs right now, so anything is a lot for Them, but that they really understood it. They said, okay, we get it. You know, obviously, like you can't, the industry can't sustain on it. Right. They, it needs to be a realistic price.
• 26:03
  Speaker A: So, so, yeah, buy American Cotton Net.
• 26:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. This is something that, you know, you know, obviously we sit under NCC and it's. NCC is, you know, been working really closely on and it's a piece of legislation that's hopefully going to be put forth.
• 26:17
  Speaker A: National Cotton Congress.
• 26:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, okay. Yeah, put forth through Congress. And it's just really offering a tax credit to brands who use US Cotton. And now that we have traceable cotton and you know, where cotton came from, it's just incentivizing the use of U.S. cotton. And it has a bunch of different tiers in terms of. Terms of if you're just taking the cotton and exporting it out to another country and then bringing it back versus, like you, you get a lot larger credit if you make it all in the United States. Right. Or if you're using US Yarn or US Fabric. Because of course we're, we really. And I, I did kind of miss that when I was talking a little bit about our solutions team. Like, we really want to grow the business in this hemisphere. And like, even if, like manufacturing and it's, it's in, in its old form doesn't come back to the volume that it did used to BE in the U.S. i think manufacturing in Latin America and South America is really great for US Cotton and US Yarn spinners and being able to, you know, grow that. So, yeah, it's exciting. You know, there's no, like, you know, we don't know what's going to happen with it. But obviously I think that it's something that could be very bipartisan because there's blue and red states and blue and red representatives and across the states that farm cotton and there's no reason to be opposed to it. So.
• 27:23
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 27:23
  Speaker B: But yeah, yeah.
• 27:24
  Speaker A: Well. And if you, if you've got two things I'd love for you to share with us and then we'll get those shared is the, the diagram, the family tree of all of the organizations. Great. But also like, I'd love to, you know, read into that some and, and, and give our listeners and followers some more info. And we have in the past helped people just like, here's how you, you know, say Please support this.
• 27:49
  Speaker B: Yes, 100. And that's definitely something like, yeah, we're trying, you know, getting brands and like local businesses and stuff to kind of sign up to say we support it is going to be really important too. But yeah, the team at NCC is working diligently as well as industry.
• 28:02
  Speaker A: Right.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: Because within the industry there's a lot of folks that have government affairs teams. So there's a lot of positive momentum around it. You know, so hopefully when things kind of get a little more settled on the government side, it can go through.
• 28:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that would be exciting. That's really great. And it's always, especially during this time, it's already always nice to see something that everybody supports and we get something done.
• 28:24
  Speaker B: Yes, right, yeah. That everyone can agree on.
• 28:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, right, exactly.
• 28:27
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:28
  Speaker A: Well, this has been great and I really appreciate as always enjoy visiting with you and hear what's happening and all that kind of stuff and, and we'll make all those. That information available to our peeps. Is there any other like information or anything that you think that folks need to know about that would be helpful to them to understand? Like maybe even just the health benefits of, of cotton and what to look for? Like I know, you know, when you go to Walmart now, I don't know if people will notice, but it says it's bci. I think it's better cotton. Right. And so which is, which is an. Its own separate. One of the many certifications and apparently that is who Walmart works with because I see it on their brand. Most of their. Walmart.
• 29:16
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 29:16
  Speaker A: Will say that.
• 29:18
  Speaker B: Yes. You know, they do. They, they've been pretty big with them for a long time. But yeah, look, I think, look, there's a lot of health benefits for cotton. Cotton just in terms of like, you know, every, every fabric sheds. But cotton biodegrades. Right. You're never hearing about, you know, cotton fragments in someone's brain or you know, whatever that is.
• 29:34
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: I think that, and I think you know, the health and then the environmental benefits when you see these mounds of clothing and like landfills. If those were all cotton, they would not be there because they would be biodegrading. Right. And so the, the synthetics is overtaking us has been really challenging. And look, I always say, you know, in my sustainability journey, when you think about plastic and all those things, we need all those things in our lives. They serve a purpose. Synthetics serve a purpose. You need them to, if you're doing like high intensity exercise, if you're hiking Mount Everest, you need those things. But they've started to appear in other things that you just don't need them in where cotton could really be a better substitute. And that's Kind of where we're focused on really is how do we kind of just like take them out of the things they don't need to be in. Right, so.
• 30:13
  Speaker A: Right, exactly.
• 30:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 30:14
  Speaker A: That's really interesting. That. And that's a great. I mean, a great plan too, because it does seem like we have. We are in this all or nothing phase. And we're not saying, yeah, hey, don't ever use that. But.
• 30:25
  Speaker B: Right.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: Just use it when you can use it less.
• 30:27
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, exactly.
• 30:29
  Speaker A: Okay, here's a weird question for you.
• 30:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 30:32
  Speaker A: I may now new needle pointer. You know, I would say, oh, it's my granny hobby, but I am a granny, so. Okay.
• 30:41
  Speaker B: Okay. That's amazing. Yeah.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: So I occasionally. So I use a lot of cotton thread. Okay. And occasionally there will be a very thin little piece of plastic in my interest and it will just poke up and like, I'll try to like, it's definitely woven in there that little into the.
• 31:03
  Speaker B: Probably just some contamination and.
• 31:05
  Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And so I think that's something for us to be aware of because where does that come from probably? I mean, it could have come like somebody could have thrown away plastic bag and it could wind up in the field somewhere. And you know, and to mention that farmers get. They get docked for that kind of stuff.
• 31:23
  Speaker B: Like, don't they totally do plastic. Yeah, because.
• 31:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's part of why. Because I mean, something like that can really mess up a meal, really. And it's just so funny because I've seen that twice now and I've just been like, not. This is so bizarre.
• 31:38
  Speaker B: I agree.
• 31:38
  Speaker A: They're everywhere.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: It is everywhere. It is all over. It is everywhere. Right, so it is.
• 31:45
  Speaker A: Well, thanks, Liz.
• 31:47
  Speaker B: Of course, Appreciate it.
• 31:49
  Speaker A: And safe travels to you, all the places that you go. And friends, thanks for joining us again for another episode of Conservation Stories. And we'll have all of this very fascinating information linked for you and we'll put some stuff up on our social media so you can easily see it. And we will look forward to visiting with you again for another episode of Conservation Stories.