Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Your Macros and Training Plan Mean Nothing Without THIS (Kevin Palmieri) | Ep 250

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Your Macros and Training Plan Mean Nothing Without THIS (Kevin Palmieri) | Ep 250 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

0:01
Philip Pape: You know what to do.
0:02
Philip Pape: You know the value of flexible nutrition, tracking your macros, following an effective training program and training hard in the gym.
0:09
Philip Pape: Yet you still aren't seeing the physical results you want, whether that's getting stronger, losing fat or building more muscle.
0:16
Philip Pape: If you're starting to wonder if maybe you're missing something, even if your nutrition and training plan look perfect on paper, what I'm about to share might challenge everything you believe about effort and results.
0:27
Philip Pape: Today I'm sitting down with someone who's not only transformed his own physique but has published over 1,900 podcast episodes about reaching the next level and been featured on nearly 3,000 shows to uncover why even the best evidence-based training and nutrition approach can fail without the right mindset and execution.
0:47
Philip Pape: You'll discover why level 5 effort will never get you level 10 results.
0:51
Philip Pape: How to honestly assess if you're really putting in the work and the framework for finally matching your effort to your goals.
1:03
Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
1:10
Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we are answering the question why do most people fail to achieve their fitness goals?
1:16
Philip Pape: Is it a lack of information, the wrong plan or something else?
1:20
Philip Pape: My mentor, friend and returning guest, kevin Palmieri, is the founder and co-host of Next Level University, a global top 100 self-improvement podcast with over get this 1,900 episodes, and he's been a guest on over 3,000 other podcasts.
1:38
Philip Pape: After realizing that even perfect plans fail without elite execution, kevin has built a framework for matching your effort level to your goals, whether that's in the gym, in the kitchen or in life.
1:42
Philip Pape: Today, you'll learn fail without elite execution.
1:43
Philip Pape: Kevin has built a framework for matching your effort level to your goals, whether that's in the gym, in the kitchen or in life.
1:48
Philip Pape: Today, you'll learn that having a plan and knowing what to do isn't enough if your effort doesn't match your ambitions.
1:55
Philip Pape: How to honestly assess where you're falling short and what's required to finally start putting in true level 10 effort with your nutrition and training.
2:02
Philip Pape: Kevin, my friend, so good we made this happen and that you are back on the show, philip, I appreciate that wonderful introduction so very much.
2:10
Kevin Palmieri: I hope I can live up to the reputation you have created for me.
2:13
Kevin Palmieri: That will be the goal.
2:14
Kevin Palmieri: But I'm excited to chat.
2:15
Kevin Palmieri: You're a wonderful human and any opportunity I get to chat with you is always a good time.
2:19
Kevin Palmieri: So here we are.
2:20
Philip Pape: Yeah, we know each other really well at this point through both friendship and mentorship and coaching, podcasting, a little bit of fitness.
2:27
Philip Pape: You came on episode 54 back.
2:29
Philip Pape: We were talking like gosh two years, maybe over a year ago now, and I like with the intros, I like to set the standard for what the guest brings, so as opposed to the other way around.
2:40
Philip Pape: So you're already there, man.
2:41
Lisa: You're already there, all right I appreciate it.
2:44
Philip Pape: You're already there.
2:44
Philip Pape: Now, besides being such a great guy, I wanted you on so that we could talk about wanting level 10 results but not being able to prioritize putting in the effort to get there, not not so much as judgment on people like not working hard enough, not enough willpower, but just the realities of life and balance and all of these things.
3:03
Philip Pape: So you host a podcast that has the phrase next level in it, and I think it's appropriate, but you know, none of us are perfect.
3:10
Philip Pape: None of us are all at that level 10 or where we might want to be.
3:13
Philip Pape: So, as a guy who has been in the bodybuilding game in the past and you're showing off your guns right now on the video and who also has a thriving business to run, is this something you struggle with right now?
3:25
Kevin Palmieri: This whole thing started.
3:26
Kevin Palmieri: Let's just cut to the chase.
3:28
Kevin Palmieri: Let's just cut to the chase.
3:29
Kevin Palmieri: Philip and I have a wonderful WhatsApp dialogue going on.
3:32
Kevin Palmieri: He reached out to me one day and said hey, can I ask you a question?
3:37
Kevin Palmieri: And I said yeah, of course.
3:38
Kevin Palmieri: And he said as a business owner and somebody into self-improvement and what you do, what is your biggest struggle when it comes to fitness?
3:42
Kevin Palmieri: And I said, honestly, the biggest struggle is understanding that I want 10 out of 10 level results, but I can't really put in level 10 effort.
3:51
Kevin Palmieri: When I was bodybuilding, I was waking up and doing an hour of cardio, going home, eating, going, working out for an hour.
4:01
Kevin Palmieri: All my life was essentially make food, eat food, work out, rest, and I was in really, really good shape and I won on stage and that's awesome.
4:10
Kevin Palmieri: But that's not necessarily sustainable for where I am today.
4:14
Kevin Palmieri: So I feel like I'm struggling with it less than I ever have, but I've also drastically adjusted my expectations for myself and I've also drastically adjusted my expectations for myself and I've also drastically adjusted the perception of myself, and that's I think.
4:31
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not saying lower standards, I'm saying create more accurate understanding of standards based on circumstances.
4:40
Philip Pape: Essentially, yeah, that makes sense.
4:42
Philip Pape: There's realistic expectations come to mind, but, like you said, without lowering the standards.
4:47
Philip Pape: It makes me think of a conversation I had with a friend about is there such a thing as good enough whether it's in fitness or any other pursuit, like if someone generally just wants to be healthy and look decent, not get on stage like you did.
4:59
Philip Pape: You know what is that effort level required and are they even achieving that?
5:04
Philip Pape: So I think I think we want to kind of hit on both sides of the equation for folks that are just struggling to do anything maybe and want to make progress sort of beginners, if you will and then those who are really busy.
5:15
Philip Pape: They know what to do, they have the information, they listen to this podcast, they know all about protein and everything else and they're like, eh, something's not quite clicking, so where do we take it from there, kevin?
5:24
Kevin Palmieri: I would say if you're somebody who doesn't feel like you're doing anything and you're struggling, the first, the one word that matters more than anything, in my opinion, is sustainability.
5:32
Kevin Palmieri: Nothing really matters if what you're doing isn't sustainable.
5:36
Kevin Palmieri: The best diet regimen, the best exercise regimen, just doesn't matter.
5:41
Kevin Palmieri: If it's not sustainable.
5:42
Kevin Palmieri: You can start with really good intentions and you can start with high levels of motivation, but if it's not sustainable, you won't continue it.
5:50
Kevin Palmieri: So sustainability for me is always the most important thing.
5:55
Kevin Palmieri: I'll be very, very honest.
5:57
Kevin Palmieri: We grew our business a ton last year.
6:02
Kevin Palmieri: I also was out of the gym more than I had been in the last five years probably.
6:07
Kevin Palmieri: When I was working my way back in, I went to a smaller gym that had less bodybuilders in it, because for me, it was more sustainable for me to go make my mistakes and look like a weakling there Again my standards, my words for me than it was at the home gym that I go to all the time.
6:27
Kevin Palmieri: I wasn't prepared for that level of feedback yet.
6:29
Kevin Palmieri: I just wasn't.
6:31
Kevin Palmieri: I was essentially feeling like I was starting from zero.
6:34
Kevin Palmieri: So sustainability is wildly important, and I think it's also the least sexy thing in the world, and that's why not a lot of people talk about it.
6:42
Kevin Palmieri: A lot of people say, well, go exercise for two hours, take massive action, all that stuff.
6:47
Kevin Palmieri: It works for some humans, but not for everyone.
6:55
Kevin Palmieri: And I would say, on the other end, if you feel like you know all the stuff and you listen to this podcast and you have resources and you're not doing it, I think it's a real challenging conversation of core beliefs and core values and core aspirations.
7:07
Kevin Palmieri: Would you rather go to the gym after work or would you rather be home with your family?
7:14
Kevin Palmieri: That is a real, honest conversation that I think is important to have, because I don't think you can really balance everything.
7:22
Kevin Palmieri: I think that's made up.
7:24
Kevin Palmieri: I don't think it's real.
7:25
Kevin Palmieri: I think what you're doing is juggling everything.
7:28
Kevin Palmieri: So right now I'm here with Philip, I'm not spending time with my wife and I'm not making any money Right.
7:36
Kevin Palmieri: So right now I'm doing this.
7:37
Kevin Palmieri: The other areas of my life are technically falling slowly, but if I'm juggling three things, two of those balls are not getting caught right now, and I think of that from a fitness perspective too, for very busy human beings.
7:52
Philip Pape: All right.
7:52
Philip Pape: So there's a lot of really good things.
7:54
Philip Pape: I want to pull on some threads.
7:55
Philip Pape: So what you ended with, with balance not being a thing I totally agree with.
8:00
Philip Pape: I've used the word integration or or whatever it is.
8:04
Philip Pape: We joke that you're on this show today and you've got like back to back, uh, calendar, and all this stuff's not going to happen because of that, and you, like you said you have to evaluate should I do this or should I do this?
8:14
Philip Pape: Now, it's not always binary, right?
8:15
Philip Pape: Like sometimes that's an excuse where we're saying we're we're forcing ourselves into a binary decision when it it's not really, but I get it.
8:23
Philip Pape: So you also mentioned sustainability, which, yeah, it's a buzzword that becomes this unsexy thing like sleep.
8:29
Philip Pape: When I put out an episode on sleep, I'm like this is going to solve everybody's recovery and training needs and nobody listens to it because it says sleep.
8:38
Philip Pape: You got to say something like do this one thing for massive gains, all right, so let's talk about practical things.
8:47
Philip Pape: You said you went to a different environment.
8:48
Philip Pape: The smaller gym, fewer bodybuilders.
8:50
Philip Pape: Actually reminded me of a meme I saw and if you saw this, arnold Schwarzenegger and it says like if you're going to wear gloves to the gym you might as well take your purse with you or something like that.
9:00
Philip Pape: It's you know, but anyway it reminded me of a discussion I just had with the founder of Boostcamp.
9:07
Philip Pape: He's on probably the episode before or after this one, I don't know.
9:09
Philip Pape: He said that they looked at data of lifters and their drop-off rates and they found that three days a week had a much smaller drop-off weight than four.
9:19
Philip Pape: And it's a great way to look at adherence and sustainability from a practical perspective is, if you're trying to do that four day a week program and you just can only get in three days, you're going to feel so frustrated, but if you do a two day a week program, it should be easy.
9:33
Philip Pape: So let's talk about that, those standards then, for somebody trying to just get fit and again, you have a background in lifting.
9:39
Philip Pape: Let's target the folks that are in their forties or fifties.
9:43
Philip Pape: They have a family, they have a business or a job, kind of like you, but they, they need to go through that effort.
9:49
Philip Pape: That's probably a higher level effort than you right now, cause they're you're maintaining, I think hopefully they want to grow Well, right, cause certain things get detrained.
10:00
Philip Pape: I get it, um, just like you, not being with being with your family right now is getting detrained.
10:04
Philip Pape: Where do they start?
10:11
Kevin Palmieri: And then we can talk about how you're not putting enough effort.
10:13
Kevin Palmieri: We'll go from there.
10:13
Kevin Palmieri: That's the hard thing is you start by not putting enough effort in.
10:16
Kevin Palmieri: That's really the weird thing about all this, and I've been saying this so often on podcasts there is no one size fits all.
10:24
Kevin Palmieri: I think most blanket statements are just wrong, because if it seems to work for everyone, it probably works for no one If we really think about it, because we're not factoring in the circumstances.
10:34
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say you do the least amount humanly possible.
10:43
Kevin Palmieri: That will give you any feeling of progress.
10:46
Kevin Palmieri: That is the advice I would give.
10:49
Kevin Palmieri: You and I were talking in the pre-chat before this and we were talking about the podcast and I said, oh, I didn't know, you started doing episodes every other week.
10:56
Kevin Palmieri: And you said, yeah, that's what I was doing in the beginning.
11:00
Kevin Palmieri: It would be really easy for me to look at that and say you're never going to win that way.
11:03
Kevin Palmieri: I.
11:03
Kevin Palmieri: I do seven episodes a week.
11:04
Kevin Palmieri: Not good that I've been doing this a long time.
11:08
Kevin Palmieri: This is like the thing that I do.
11:10
Kevin Palmieri: I always tell clients I want you to do the minimum that you will actually stick with, because it's not about the gains or the results or the weight loss in the first week, that doesn't matter.
11:23
Kevin Palmieri: It's not about that.
11:24
Kevin Palmieri: It's about are you there two months later doing the thing at a high enough clip where you can actually get results?
11:31
Kevin Palmieri: So I'm in this phase now, philip, of setting goals that are almost embarrassingly small, because when you start to get momentum, it's easier to go.
11:42
Kevin Palmieri: It's easier to go to the gym or whatever your preferred preference.
11:45
Kevin Palmieri: When it comes to go, it's easier to go to the gym or whatever your preferred preference.
11:47
Kevin Palmieri: When it comes to exercises, it's easier to do it when you've been doing it longer.
11:51
Kevin Palmieri: So that would be my advice.
11:53
Kevin Palmieri: It might not be the best, most practical advice in the world, but I've just seen that work, more than almost anything else I've ever said to anyone, which makes it practical.
12:03
Philip Pape: Which makes it very practical.
12:05
Philip Pape: I mean, just to quote something you just said it starts with not enough effort.
12:09
Philip Pape: I think that's a really good reframe because people are trying to do enough for something but if they're doing zero, going from zero to one and you see this in a lot of paradigms I spoke with Dr Sarah Ballantyne.
12:22
Philip Pape: Her episode came out on the show and she said going from zero to one servings of vegetables a day is as effective as going from one to four when it comes to like longevity, right, we see this everywhere.
12:32
Philip Pape: So sitting on the couch to going to the gym one day a week is going to make a massive, a massive change.
12:38
Philip Pape: But something else he said was like you could almost do that.
12:41
Philip Pape: Find that minimum level and kind of not coast.
12:44
Philip Pape: But do that.
12:44
Philip Pape: Find that minimum level and kind of not coast, but do that for a while in a compound.
12:46
Philip Pape: So can you essentially half-ass your way to a great physique, right?
12:51
Kevin Palmieri: I think you can half-ass your way to a better physique.
12:54
Kevin Palmieri: Okay, good, but I don't think you're most likely going to be able to half-ass your way to your ideal physique Good way to put it.
13:01
Kevin Palmieri: This is my thought process on it.
13:03
Kevin Palmieri: So there's three steps.
13:04
Kevin Palmieri: Sustainability is the first one.
13:06
Kevin Palmieri: You do something sustainably to start.
13:09
Kevin Palmieri: When sustainability becomes relatively easy, that means you're doing it consistently.
13:19
Kevin Palmieri: So if you start sustainably, then you can act consistently.
13:20
Kevin Palmieri: Then the third step is improvement.
13:23
Kevin Palmieri: So when you lock in, I go to the gym let's just use the gym as an example.
13:26
Kevin Palmieri: I go to the gym one time per week for 15 minutes, cool, awesome.
13:30
Kevin Palmieri: And eventually you say that's sustainable, I'm doing it consistently.
13:34
Kevin Palmieri: I've been doing it for two months.
13:35
Kevin Palmieri: All right, I've done it back to back.
13:37
Kevin Palmieri: Okay, maybe not a ton of time, but let's see.
13:40
Kevin Palmieri: Do we think we could go one time a week for 30 minutes?
13:44
Kevin Palmieri: Do we think we could go two times a week for 15 minutes?
13:47
Kevin Palmieri: Both, all right, let's see.
13:48
Kevin Palmieri: And then it gets to the point where that becomes easy.
13:52
Kevin Palmieri: So yeah, I think it's a conversation about ideal versus realistic.
14:00
Kevin Palmieri: Ideally, you would go to the gym the recommended amount of times, whatever that is for you.
14:06
Kevin Palmieri: Realistically, it might take you three years to get there, okay, and that's.
14:10
Kevin Palmieri: That's totally fine, because the majority of the amazing results you get are probably going to be in the first three years, anyway, because that's when you're changing all of your behaviors.
14:19
Kevin Palmieri: So that, whatever that answer is, that's what I would say.
14:24
Philip Pape: No, that's a simple framework Sustainability, consistency, improvement.
14:28
Philip Pape: The question people might say is what if that first step, even though it's sustainable, is not enough to show something meaningful for a long time?
14:38
Kevin Palmieri: That's the hard part is again easier said than done.
14:42
Kevin Palmieri: You have to measure the inputs as much, if not more, than the outputs when you're new to something, because the inputs are the thing that you're not doing.
14:52
Kevin Palmieri: You're not doing the input, so you're definitely not going to get the, the output.
14:56
Kevin Palmieri: There is a lag.
14:57
Kevin Palmieri: There's a lag between input and then perceived result.
15:01
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say it's test and then reevaluate.
15:07
Kevin Palmieri: So if you feel like, if you feel like it's sustainable and you've done it and nothing is happening, then I would say all right, cool.
15:13
Kevin Palmieri: How much more could we challenge ourselves?
15:16
Kevin Palmieri: Would it be sustainable still to multiply the time?
15:20
Kevin Palmieri: Let's just say add 50, so we're going to do 20 minutes instead of 15.
15:24
Kevin Palmieri: Awesome, let's start there.
15:26
Kevin Palmieri: I, that's kind of my, my thought process, because I think one of the big things that can happen is, if you push it too hard, too fast, you identify as the type of person who is not capable of doing it and then you just stop and then you lose, lose all the momentum.
15:44
Kevin Palmieri: I'd rather have 50% momentum than zero.
15:48
Philip Pape: Yeah, it makes perfect sense because the base of information that you're working from.
15:53
Philip Pape: This is where I think that is important, in that, when they listen to this podcast or read the Muscle and Strength Pyramids or hopefully find good, solid information, you can have at least a baseline level of confidence that the steps you're taking measured by the inputs, like you said, measured by the inputs, because the outputs aren't going to show up for a while.
16:10
Philip Pape: We'll eventually produce those outputs.
16:12
Philip Pape: The challenge is, if people don't know the right information to begin with and then they go down the wrong path I don't want to really get it too much into that today, because the premise is that we kind of have that information, what about somebody who's doing too much and stumbling, like you said, and then they have to dial it back?
16:27
Philip Pape: Do we dial it back all the way or do we?
16:30
Philip Pape: Is there a backward stare process to like decrement us down into a sustainable place?
16:36
Kevin Palmieri: That's a great question.
16:37
Kevin Palmieri: Usually, usually, that's not where I am with people.
16:40
Kevin Palmieri: Usually it's the other way.
16:41
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, I would say it's probably.
16:44
Kevin Palmieri: The word that comes to mind for me is simplify and optimize.
16:50
Kevin Palmieri: So I guess we have to get specific on what the actual behaviors are that the people are practicing.
16:56
Kevin Palmieri: But when you say they're doing too much, what do you mean?
16:59
Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm thinking doing a lot of cardio or going to the gym seven days a week, thinking they need that level of volume for results.
17:06
Philip Pape: I guess what I'm implying is they're not getting results even with all that.
17:09
Philip Pape: Work is where I'm coming from.
17:11
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, I think that.
17:13
Kevin Palmieri: So my argument for that would be if that is the behavior, then the awareness isn't high enough, because now there's a ton of data out there that suggests that is not the way to do it.
17:24
Kevin Palmieri: And if you're doing that, maybe you're overtraining I know that's another buzzword in the industry but then maybe the awareness isn't enough.
17:32
Kevin Palmieri: So that's kind of the thought when you're starting.
17:35
Kevin Palmieri: It's as much about the mindset as it is the strategy and the work ethic.
17:42
Kevin Palmieri: If you've already been doing it for a long time, give yourself two thumbs up and check the box.
17:49
Kevin Palmieri: You're really good at the work ethic part, but the strategy and the mindset are off.
17:53
Kevin Palmieri: So that's what you have to work on.
17:56
Kevin Palmieri: It's the mindset and the strategy, not the work ethic.
17:59
Kevin Palmieri: I think in the beginning it typically is the work ethic that people are afraid to put out there.
18:05
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say it's probably a conversation of awareness more than anything else.
18:09
Kevin Palmieri: You have to seek new information that proves to you that it's not.
18:14
Kevin Palmieri: It proves to you that the reason you're not getting the results is not the strategy, but it is the strategy in a way, and then you can adjust accordingly.
18:25
Philip Pape: Yeah, no, it makes sense Because people are I know folks that listen are sometimes fearful of dropping a bunch of work from their plate that they think is getting them fitness goals and then all of a sudden they're going to gain a bunch of weight, lose a bunch of muscle, whatever.
18:39
Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
18:39
Philip Pape: But look, if you're listening, if you're not getting the result doing that anyway, what is that telling you?
18:44
Philip Pape: Like, strip it back.
18:45
Kevin Palmieri: What you feel like you're doing is you feel like you're doing optimal, like what I'm doing is optimal but realistically you're not getting any results.
18:52
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, so it's not going to work in the long run anyway, so we have to adjust something.
18:57
Kevin Palmieri: It just also seems like the least logical thing to adjust.
19:01
Kevin Palmieri: It's like well, why should I do less when more isn't getting me results?
19:04
Kevin Palmieri: Completely understandable, but there are certain times where you're just not in the right, you're out of optimal.
19:10
Kevin Palmieri: It just doesn't feel like it.
19:11
Philip Pape: So now, once people get through that cycle and they start to build momentum and start to grow and up-level themselves, what separates those operating at a level 10, understanding that that goalpost can move right, From those that are kind of stuck at a five or six?
19:27
Philip Pape: They're not at a zero, they're at a five or six.
19:28
Philip Pape: What would you say differentiates those assuming it's not intentional?
19:32
Philip Pape: You know what I mean.
19:34
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, can you ref, can you reframe for me?
19:40
Philip Pape: the question.
19:40
Philip Pape: The question yeah, please um, okay, yeah what distinguishes a level 10 person from a level 5 person in terms of?
19:48
Kevin Palmieri: fitness specifically yeah sure fitness I would say honestly, probably flexibility.
19:57
Kevin Palmieri: I think flexibility is a really big thing that a lot of people don't talk about it, but I would argue that my business partner is probably at a level 10 in terms of inputs, but he is also wildly flexible with what counts as a workout.
20:14
Kevin Palmieri: So for him, walking the dog is something that he checks the box off and he's getting a workout.
20:19
Kevin Palmieri: He started by doing 25 minutes of weight training seven days a week.
20:24
Kevin Palmieri: He works out every day.
20:25
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not saying that's what I don't aspire to, that that's what he aspires to.
20:28
Kevin Palmieri: Then, when that became sustainable, he did 30.
20:30
Kevin Palmieri: Then it went to 35.
20:31
Kevin Palmieri: Then it went to 40.
20:32
Kevin Palmieri: Then it went to 45.
20:33
Kevin Palmieri: All of it was a moving target based on your own standards, paired with flexibility.
20:39
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say that it's way more about your ability to show up than it is the results you get, because there's a lot of people that are in really good shape that well, they've just been doing it.
20:49
Kevin Palmieri: I've been doing this so long.
20:51
Kevin Palmieri: I can get away with things that maybe other people can't, so I'm not a good example of just do what I do.
20:55
Kevin Palmieri: So I think flexibility is one, I think prioritization is is probably two, and then I man, more than ever, I would say, understanding and practicing the basic fundamentals, the principles.
21:11
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, you talked about sleep.
21:12
Kevin Palmieri: I used to be the guy who got four hours of sleep and I went.
21:16
Kevin Palmieri: I just hopped up on NO Explode, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to crank out a great workout.
21:23
Kevin Palmieri: Now, when I get eight hours of sleep, everything is better, my workouts are better, my days are better, I drink more water because I'm awake.
21:33
Kevin Palmieri: It doesn't seem like it attaches to everything, but it is the foundation of everything.
21:38
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say it's the fundamentals that don't seem like they matter, that matter to everything else that's going to help you in the short and long run.
21:46
Philip Pape: That's powerful, right, because there are people that want to jump to hey, I want to lose fat but you don't have the basics.
21:52
Philip Pape: And hey, that extra hour of sleep is just going to make it easy to lose fat, right, and guess what?
21:57
Philip Pape: You don't have to eat as few calories.
21:58
Philip Pape: Going back to the flexibility, this is a really good one because I've been thinking a lot about training.
22:02
Philip Pape: I consider myself like intermediate lifter, if you will, and I started with programs that were very simple, basic, you know, like boring, but basic, right, like a set of three by five squat type program which a lot of people do, and I think they're great.
22:17
Philip Pape: Initially they're not flexible, other than maybe the amount you jump, you know, in weight session to session, um.
22:24
Philip Pape: But now I'm a huge fan of periodization, of base and peaking and undulation and like just really varying it up, not for its own sake, but because there's benefit to that um, to your body.
22:35
Philip Pape: So I think there's a literal flexibility and there's a metaphorical flexibility we're talking about.
22:41
Philip Pape: That is hugely important with fitness.
22:43
Philip Pape: So if you're listening, like, just this is for the people that are already at level five, trying to get to level 10, we already addressed going from zero to five.
22:50
Philip Pape: So it's kind of like you're periodizing your leveling right Start with the basics, the sustainability, and then move on to these others.
22:57
Kevin Palmieri: Can I add a real quick thought?
22:58
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, yeah, please, please, this.
23:00
Kevin Palmieri: I think this is what I'm trying to.
23:02
Kevin Palmieri: I'm trying to get this to land in my own head so I can say it out loud.
23:05
Kevin Palmieri: We had somebody on the podcast early on.
23:07
Kevin Palmieri: Her name's Lori Harder and she said something that I'll never forget for as long as I'm alive.
23:11
Kevin Palmieri: She said consistent 70% days are better than spotty 100% days, and that's essentially what I'm saying, is I'm thinking more about the trend line.
23:22
Kevin Palmieri: So if you are doing a little bit better than you were doing at this point last week, it's never going to actually be 100%.
23:30
Kevin Palmieri: So if you're getting closer to whatever your unique capability is, that is a win in my book.
23:37
Kevin Palmieri: I don't aspire ever to get to that bodybuilding level again.
23:41
Kevin Palmieri: It's never going to happen, but I do aspire to get closer and closer and closer and closer.
23:46
Kevin Palmieri: So now it's not about me getting to optimal.
23:50
Kevin Palmieri: It's, it's about me getting to realistic, based on the circumstances.
23:54
Kevin Palmieri: The lifestyle and the effort I'm willing to put in Makes sense.
23:57
Philip Pape: Yeah, and the idea of using the levels.
23:59
Philip Pape: This is just a uh what do?
24:01
Lisa: you call it.
24:02
Philip Pape: A stand-in because somebody who, like you, are you might be operating on level 10 for what you want today and it's a lot lower level 10 than before.
24:11
Philip Pape: So, yeah, I mean, as long as you're happy, as long as you're meeting where you want to meet.
24:13
Philip Pape: So here's what I wonder what do you think about the?
24:16
Philip Pape: When you look at the fitness industry, we look at all the um influencers.
24:20
Philip Pape: Oh boy, how many of them are putting in level 10 effort versus just really marketing.
24:26
Philip Pape: Well, what are your thoughts on that?
24:28
Kevin Palmieri: Oh man.
24:30
Kevin Palmieri: I mean one.
24:32
Kevin Palmieri: I'm willing to bet.
24:34
Kevin Palmieri: If you looked at the median age of most of these influencers, they're probably in their mid twenties.
24:38
Kevin Palmieri: So there's something different about I remember the 20,.
24:41
Kevin Palmieri: When I was in the mid twenties you could do anything and it kind of worked.
24:44
Kevin Palmieri: I have worked out with some people in the fitness industry that have really big followings and what I will say is they have days where they record content and they have days where they really work out, and the workouts you see online are not usually their days where they're actually working out.
25:02
Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, that's a disconnect.
25:05
Kevin Palmieri: Right or wrong?
25:05
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not.
25:06
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not saying they shouldn't.
25:08
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not trying to throw smoke on anybody.
25:10
Kevin Palmieri: I've done workouts with people that didn't get recorded and they were drastically different than the ones that got did.
25:15
Kevin Palmieri: Uh, that that did get recorded.
25:17
Kevin Palmieri: So I think they're probably closer to 10 than we realize.
25:22
Kevin Palmieri: Because if it's your brand, you do we realize.
25:23
Kevin Palmieri: Because if it's your brand, you do it right.
25:26
Kevin Palmieri: If it's your brand, you, you live it.
25:28
Kevin Palmieri: I probably have the privilege of consuming more self-improvement content than somebody else because it's quite literally my job.
25:35
Kevin Palmieri: So when I was more in the fitness space, I was doing way more stuff associated with fitness.
25:44
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, makes sense, it was my job.
25:45
Kevin Palmieri: I had to look good.
25:46
Kevin Palmieri: That was kind of the thing I have to be good at base.
25:49
Kevin Palmieri: I was doing way more stuff associated with fitness.
25:50
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, makes sense, it was my job.
25:50
Kevin Palmieri: I had to look good.
25:51
Kevin Palmieri: That was kind of the thing I have to be good at self-improvement.
25:52
Kevin Palmieri: So I have to study it.
25:53
Kevin Palmieri: So I would say they're probably up there.
25:55
Kevin Palmieri: They just don't market that.
25:59
Philip Pape: Yeah, it makes sense and it's not always a sign of a lack of ethics, because a good coach is going to coach people across a variety of programming styles and whatnot and maybe follow something different on their own.
26:09
Philip Pape: Okay, we talked about sustainability.
26:11
Philip Pape: When it comes to sustainability like let's say, you get to a level where you're training four days a week, you're, you're sleeping a lot, everything else One of the biggest challenges, like my clients face all the time, is life.
26:23
Philip Pape: Like life gets in the way, and that's kind of going back to the prioritization thing, not just on a weekly basis, but randomly right, like randomly, things come up.
26:32
Philip Pape: What do we do?
26:33
Philip Pape: Like knowing that chaos is going to happen, what's your approach to being ready for that and having that resilience or flexibility which you kind of alluded to already?
26:40
Kevin Palmieri: I get it out of the way early.
26:41
Kevin Palmieri: So, no matter what happens it, it never goes away.
26:44
Kevin Palmieri: That's the first exercise for me is the first thing I do.
26:47
Kevin Palmieri: It is the foundation of my oh okay, yeah, first first time of the day.
26:50
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, perfect, it's okay, awesome, unless something is burning down at six o'clock in the morning, which it usually isn't.
26:56
Kevin Palmieri: I'm, I'm going to do that immediately.
26:58
Kevin Palmieri: I would say it's the flexibility to say you know, it's the flexibility to say you know, I really wanted to go weight train today, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to go outside and play with the kids for 30 minutes and burn some calories doing that.
27:09
Kevin Palmieri: Or I know and again I know it's not one-to-one, but I know I didn't have time to exercise today, but I do know we're going to be mulching this weekend, so I'm going to be lifting a lot of stuff and I'm going to be moving around.
27:21
Kevin Palmieri: It's that it's not the one or zero, it's maybe we get a half point today because we did something differently than we wouldn't have.
27:30
Kevin Palmieri: That's usually where my mind goes.
27:34
Kevin Palmieri: I think doing it as a like a pillar of a morning or a night routine is probably the best.
27:40
Kevin Palmieri: But again, easy for the ultimate cat dad to say because I don't have.
27:43
Kevin Palmieri: I don't have real children, so it's a little bit different, but that's what I would say.
27:48
Kevin Palmieri: I would probably ask you that.
27:50
Kevin Palmieri: I would probably turn the tables on you and say well, as someone who does have a family and children, what keeps you consistent?
27:56
Philip Pape: Yeah, it's funny, the working out of the morning thing actually, I've been talking about a lot lately, including with regards to sleep, because it can improve your sleep to work out in the morning.
28:09
Philip Pape: Yeah, I'd like to say, just prioritize the one or two things you have to do that you are going to do.
28:11
Philip Pape: That is sacrosanct for you in your week.
28:12
Philip Pape: I can't imagine not training when, like I can't if I'm not on vacation.
28:16
Lisa: I'm going to train, I'm going to.
28:17
Philip Pape: God damn it.
28:18
Philip Pape: I'm going to find a way to train, but the problem with that is then maybe something else actually gets?
28:22
Philip Pape: You know, yeah, so, um, I guess the right answer that I would say is it's going to depend on the person, their schedule, their lifestyle, their like you said, circumstances and what works for you.
28:33
Philip Pape: I think there's not.
28:34
Philip Pape: It's often an excuse, and so there's reframing involved.
28:38
Philip Pape: But we also have to meet people where they're at like.
28:40
Philip Pape: If you have a night shift job where you get five hours of sleep I'm not going to be the 20 year old influencer it's like, well, you need eight, you just need eight hours, like finding.
28:47
Philip Pape: And there's literally no way they're going to do it unless they change their job.
28:51
Philip Pape: And I'm not in here trying to, you know, change economic policy and get you a new job.
28:59
Philip Pape: Yeah, so right, so you got to do.
29:00
Philip Pape: But you better eat a lot more food hardly be dieting and you better work out maybe two or three days a week rather than five, because you need more.
29:07
Philip Pape: You know what I mean.
29:08
Philip Pape: So you have to make all those trade-offs.
29:10
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, well, that's the hard thing is there is a trade-off.
29:14
Kevin Palmieri: So maybe you talk to your partner and you say, hey, I know things were a little haywire today.
29:19
Kevin Palmieri: Is there any way I can sneak away for 30 minutes?
29:21
Kevin Palmieri: I want to try to get a quick lift in, or whatever it is.
29:23
Kevin Palmieri: I think that's a really big piece of it too is just having honest conversations with the people around you.
29:28
Kevin Palmieri: If somebody understands how much something means to you, they're going to try to help you find a way to get that need met.
29:36
Kevin Palmieri: Now, that can't always be it.
29:38
Kevin Palmieri: If the kids are throwing up or whatever.
29:40
Kevin Palmieri: Some days you're probably going to have to miss it.
29:42
Kevin Palmieri: But I think that's the hard thing is to your point.
29:46
Kevin Palmieri: Sometimes that's going to be the truth.
29:48
Kevin Palmieri: Your circumstances, yes, we can overcome and work through circumstances, but not always.
29:55
Kevin Palmieri: Sometimes circumstances dictate our reality and I'm never going to be one of those people who says, well, you know what, so you don't have any money or you don't have anywhere to live, it doesn't matter, go sell this and eventually you'll have a penthouse.
30:06
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, no, that's not the way I like to talk about it.
30:09
Kevin Palmieri: Some days the circumstances will win.
30:11
Kevin Palmieri: I think we just have to be honest and do our best to try to make sure the circumstances don't win sequentially, because that's when things get off.
30:21
Kevin Palmieri: So just because today went off the rails, it doesn't mean tomorrow we can't try to have a more aligned, specific, intentional day.
30:29
Philip Pape: You alluded to something really powerful there and that's communication, and I don't want to let that one go because don't take this the wrong way You're a lot like my wife in that you are like an empath in a way, and I've heard you and Alan talk about this on your show the different personality traits and strengths and whatnot.
30:45
Philip Pape: You seem emotionally connected to people in a way.
30:49
Philip Pape: Not a lot of folks are, and maybe you've developed that.
30:51
Philip Pape: But especially when it comes to men, men often have time, difficulty, being vulnerable and sharing, and that's something I've worked on.
30:58
Philip Pape: Myself like to say that I'm kind of cold and calm and collected about things, which can be a strength when I'm like receiving, as a vessel, someone else's venting, like it just brushes off me, but it could be a downside when I don't respond or act like I'm listening Right.
31:12
Philip Pape: So communication could be the thing you're missing If you're listening to this, when everything seems to not be working with that balance and it could just just be someone else is kind of either holding you back, intentionally or not.
31:25
Philip Pape: You know.
31:26
Philip Pape: It could be a roommate who's sabotaging your eating patterns by putting candy on the counter or something simple like that.
31:33
Philip Pape: You just have to talk to them.
31:34
Philip Pape: Easier said than done, it's a skill, but you talk about it all the time on your show because you cover much more than fitness and I think it's worth people to be aware of that.
31:43
Philip Pape: Right, it's not just these strategic things.
31:45
Kevin Palmieri: No, there's a.
31:45
Kevin Palmieri: Really.
31:46
Kevin Palmieri: Essentially, what we're talking about is we're talking about identifying and adjusting resistance.
31:51
Kevin Palmieri: That's all.
31:52
Kevin Palmieri: That's all it really is and and environment and you use that word earlier, before I brought it up.
31:57
Kevin Palmieri: Environment does create resistance, and one of the reasons environments create resistance is because of the people in the environment.
32:04
Kevin Palmieri: So the last thing you're going to want to do is I'll give this as an example my wife and I have a practice where, if something is coming up and there is a conflict maybe I have a podcast scheduled or I'm supposed to do something I'll say on a scale of zero to 10, how important is this to you?
32:21
Kevin Palmieri: If it's a 10, I reschedule whatever I have going on.
32:25
Kevin Palmieri: If it's a five, we have a conversation and I say look for me, the thing that I'm doing is like a nine and a half.
32:31
Kevin Palmieri: Is that okay?
32:33
Kevin Palmieri: She said, yeah, absolutely.
32:34
Kevin Palmieri: That's something you could do with fitness.
32:36
Kevin Palmieri: Oh, I know, babe, I know we're supposed to have date night tonight.
32:40
Kevin Palmieri: Is there any way that we can do it 40 minutes later so I can get a quick workout in?
32:46
Kevin Palmieri: That's a completely different day.
32:47
Kevin Palmieri: So flexibility not only falls on you, it also falls on the people around you, if they're willing to partake in the things that you value.
32:57
Kevin Palmieri: But that's why I go back to the core values and the core beliefs.
32:59
Kevin Palmieri: Core value for me is fitness.
33:01
Kevin Palmieri: It is a core, freaking value.
33:04
Kevin Palmieri: I love it.
33:05
Kevin Palmieri: A core belief for me is I am a better man when I'm in better shape.
33:09
Kevin Palmieri: I'm more fulfilled, I have more self-trust.
33:12
Kevin Palmieri: I just am.
33:13
Kevin Palmieri: I just.
33:13
Kevin Palmieri: I have more to give, I have more to pour from.
33:16
Kevin Palmieri: I believe that if I go to the gym, I'll be a better partner.
33:19
Kevin Palmieri: So that's all in my head Anytime I'm making the decisions, or asking for grace when I need it, which I do often the other day.
33:44
Philip Pape: Okay, she was with my daughters and I was a half hour away from recording a podcast with a guest a guest who we had rescheduled twice is a pretty big name.
33:48
Philip Pape: And going through my head is what do I do, right?
33:51
Philip Pape: Do I drop everything to fix the flat?
33:54
Philip Pape: Do I tell her just wait for an hour and a half, which you know?
33:58
Philip Pape: That's not the answer, or it was their middle ground.
34:01
Philip Pape: There was a middle ground.
34:02
Philip Pape: She understood.
34:02
Philip Pape: She's like why don't you just come pick us up, bring us back home, cause it was 10 minutes away?
34:05
Philip Pape: Fortunately, we did that, left the car.
34:08
Philip Pape: Later on, she drove me.
34:09
Philip Pape: I fixed the flat, no big deal.
34:10
Philip Pape: But again you're right, you have to communicate.
34:16
Philip Pape: So that's important.
34:16
Philip Pape: It is, it's very important.
34:17
Philip Pape: Yeah, I want to address the kind of the other extreme of this, which is you alluded to your bodybuilding experience in the past and getting on stage Like what's the uncomfortable truth that people have to know for something like that?
34:26
Philip Pape: I mean, you know, getting shredded, whatever, even if they don't want to go on stage, but they want this quote unquote extreme level of fitness that most people, you know, they don't want to hear it, they don't want to know if they need to know it because you've been through there and they need to reconcile with that, so that maybe that's not the goal that they really want, or maybe it is it is the only goal, okay, if you want to get show ready, stage ready and you want to have a chance at at winning, so there's.
34:50
Kevin Palmieri: So this is something I always say too.
34:52
Kevin Palmieri: I think one of the most dangerous things in the world is seeing somebody on stage that and I'm putting this in quotes for those just listening that doesn't look like they belong on stage, when in reality they lost 150 pounds to have the confidence to step on stage.
35:05
Kevin Palmieri: Good for you, that's potentially a different story, but if you're going on stage with the intentions of winning for me, I traded in everything else.
35:14
Kevin Palmieri: I traded in.
35:15
Kevin Palmieri: My mental health went absolutely down the can.
35:19
Kevin Palmieri: I already had some mental health stuff.
35:20
Kevin Palmieri: So it wasn't just that.
35:21
Kevin Palmieri: My relationship was terrible and I had a super supportive partner, but I just had nothing to give.
35:28
Kevin Palmieri: I was anxious all the time.
35:31
Kevin Palmieri: I was a control freak because I had to know when can I get my next meal?
35:35
Kevin Palmieri: Is there a microwave there?
35:37
Kevin Palmieri: People didn't like me very much because we went to weddings and I brought my meals.
35:42
Kevin Palmieri: People don't like that when you don't eat the $200 meal that they paid for understandably so yes I just think, unfortunately and maybe not everybody, but unfortunately I think it turns you into a relatively selfish human being, because not only are you not getting almost any of your dietary needs met, but you're quite literally putting your body into a state of flea, like your body needs more than you're giving it all the time.
36:09
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, your, your body's just trying to survive, so you're probably not going to be the best partner and and all that.
36:15
Kevin Palmieri: I've met some bodybuilders who it almost doesn't even seem to affect.
36:18
Kevin Palmieri: They're just like, they're just totally normal.
36:20
Kevin Palmieri: But I think they're just cut from a different cloth.
36:23
Kevin Palmieri: That maybe I wasn't.
36:23
Kevin Palmieri: So it's that it's.
36:25
Kevin Palmieri: I think it's more mental than it is physical.
36:28
Kevin Palmieri: The physical part wasn't.
36:29
Kevin Palmieri: Honestly, it wasn't that bad.
36:31
Kevin Palmieri: The mental piece of the, of thinking of okay, it's 148 in 12 minutes I can eat.
36:40
Kevin Palmieri: How many grams of rice do I have?
36:42
Kevin Palmieri: How many grams of egg whites do I have?
36:43
Kevin Palmieri: That is just.
36:44
Kevin Palmieri: It's very, very, very constricting.
36:48
Kevin Palmieri: And I definitely afterwards had a mild eating disorder for a couple months and I didn't realize it at the time, but my hormones were so messed up.
36:58
Kevin Palmieri: I remember one day I was traveling for work and we went out to get breakfast and I was like, oh, it's nice.
37:04
Kevin Palmieri: This is probably two weeks after my show and I got.
37:07
Kevin Palmieri: I said, is there any way you can do a banana split?
37:10
Kevin Palmieri: And they're like it's like eight o'clock, sir, can you?
37:13
Kevin Palmieri: Maybe you can just put them on the pancakes.
37:15
Kevin Palmieri: I'm like, yeah, we can do that for you, and I ate so much.
37:17
Kevin Palmieri: I almost couldn't go to work that day because of how bad it was.
37:20
Kevin Palmieri: So, yeah, there's a downside of getting to that point and I would really sit down and and get familiar with what you might have to give up.
37:31
Kevin Palmieri: There's a lot of comfort that you have to give up to get that level of shredded and, honestly, it's not.
37:36
Lisa: It's not worth it for 99.9 percent of people yeah hi, my name is l and I'd like to give a big shout out to my nutrition coach, philip Pate.
37:43
Lisa: With his coaching I have lost 17 pounds.
37:45
Lisa: He helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight, and it's very simple longevity.
37:50
Lisa: I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die.
37:54
Lisa: He introduced me to this wonderful little app called Macrofactor.
37:56
Lisa: I got that part of my nutrition figured out.
38:01
Lisa: Along with that is the movement part of nutrition.
38:02
Lisa: There's a plan to it and really helped me with that.
38:04
Lisa: The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in.
38:07
Lisa: So the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight.
38:11
Lisa: When it's presented to you like he presents it, it makes even more sense.
38:15
Lisa: And the other thing that he had was a hunker guide and that really helped me, so thank you.
38:23
Philip Pape: Yeah, that's the key.
38:23
Philip Pape: I mean, I've had a few other guests on the show or coaches in that space and it's the same thing.
38:27
Philip Pape: It's a very cautious lens on.
38:30
Philip Pape: First you need to be filtered out and be the 0.1% remaining who it's truly appropriate for, and then you have to filter out any obsessions, eating disorders and you get to the very, very tiny slice and you know again.
38:45
Philip Pape: I've met folks like Dr Eric Helms.
38:46
Philip Pape: We all know him and he's been successful as a natural bodybuilder, but he has a mental fortitude like no other you know he has a very special and it's like all it's his profession.
38:53
Philip Pape: You know he studies it, so there's there's kind of an alignment there.
38:56
Philip Pape: Yeah, I think it's important for people to know that, because even what I've seen from clients and myself and you've probably experienced this is even a mild level of dieting and trying to get lean starts to pressure you toward that direction just a bit and you got to question why you're doing this.
39:13
Philip Pape: You really have to question it, because you can get to a plenty good enough physique, well above that point, without having to push it.
39:21
Philip Pape: Yeah, um, it's super important.
39:23
Philip Pape: I mean, I just went back to a bulking phase cause I'm like, I'm done, like this dieting thing I never, I never super enjoy it.
39:29
Philip Pape: You know it works.
39:30
Philip Pape: You know how to do it.
39:30
Philip Pape: It's mental, Like you said, it's all mental.
39:32
Philip Pape: It's a body doesn't want to be there.
39:34
Kevin Palmieri: Do you?
39:35
Philip Pape: struggle with bulking.
39:36
Philip Pape: Do I struggle with bulking?
39:38
Philip Pape: Yeah, do you why?
39:38
Philip Pape: Because I'm a skinny, skinny guy.
39:41
Kevin Palmieri: No, no, no, no.
39:41
Kevin Palmieri: I mean mentally.
39:42
Kevin Palmieri: Do you struggle with it mentally?
39:43
Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I love bulking, do you?
39:45
Philip Pape: Do you?
39:46
Philip Pape: Have you found that side?
39:48
Philip Pape: I don't like it, you don't like it.
39:50
Philip Pape: No, I.
40:00
Kevin Palmieri: Tell me more about and I don't mean it in that way.
40:01
Kevin Palmieri: I was always the guy who had abs, even in high school.
40:02
Kevin Palmieri: I was telling my wife this the other day.
40:03
Kevin Palmieri: I said in high school on the baseball forums, people were accusing me of steroids in high school and I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I was exercising.
40:09
Kevin Palmieri: I had no clue.
40:09
Kevin Palmieri: I have really good genetics, so I've kind of always had abs and for me abs equal successful, that's what everybody's going for.
40:18
Kevin Palmieri: So there's that piece of me right now who I'm bulking.
40:21
Kevin Palmieri: I was 182 today and as I creep towards 185 at five foot six, five foot five, depending on the day, I start to look more and more like a meatball.
40:31
Kevin Palmieri: And there's a piece of me that doesn't like that very much when I'm used to being shredded and vascular and all that.
40:37
Kevin Palmieri: So I understand both.
40:40
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, alan, my business partner, six foot two, tall and lanky his words, not mine.
40:45
Kevin Palmieri: He doesn't like being lean because for him it reminds him of when he was tall and lanky.
40:54
Philip Pape: It's very interesting.
40:55
Philip Pape: It's very interesting because, yeah, these thoughts go through my head all the time and again.
40:59
Philip Pape: Anybody following a plan to change a body composition has to wrestle with both sides of the equation.
41:04
Philip Pape: I actually thought you were originally talking about the discomfort of the food side of things, but you're talking about getting fluffy.
41:11
Philip Pape: I actually did a whole podcast episode like why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked, or something like that.
41:17
Philip Pape: Like a while back, uh, laying it out there because you're right, you have to embrace the other positives about getting bigger and forget that abs are even a, are even, are even a measure.
41:29
Philip Pape: They're not because the abs are gone pretty quickly.
41:32
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, and it's not about now, it's about next year.
41:37
Philip Pape: Yeah.
41:37
Kevin Palmieri: It's like right, what you're doing right now is not about right now, it's about next year, when yeah, it's like right, what you're doing right now is not about right now, it's about next year, when you do whatever you decide to do.
41:45
Kevin Palmieri: That's what I keep telling myself.
41:46
Kevin Palmieri: I don't just go lift heavy and eat food and stay high on protein and build muscle and then, when you diet down what you do every year, you'll look better.
41:56
Kevin Palmieri: It just doesn't feel like it yet.
41:58
Philip Pape: Yeah, there's different standards of look, of course, and also if you're in a relationship or what your goals are in life.
42:04
Philip Pape: I'm not trying to chase girls or anything.
42:06
Philip Pape: I've got my, my wife loves me whatever I look like, and some women like bigger guys too.
42:10
Philip Pape: But you know, two more thoughts come to mind on that.
42:13
Philip Pape: One is that the when you look at bigger guys like powerlifters I'll say modern day powerlifters, not classic powerlifters who really packed on the weight there's this thought that if you can really pack on that muscle and train at that level for a long time and not even worry about cutting, you can vastly change your body composition and just be this bigger, leaner guy and then cut down to much higher weight and have abs, but you're the big, stocky, bulky with muscle type of guy.
42:41
Philip Pape: It takes time though.
42:43
Philip Pape: It takes like a good three to six years probably at least, of solid training to get there.
42:47
Philip Pape: The other thing is just recently the bulking recommendations were updated based on the science, like three new studies that came out that show that we can put on a lot more lean tissue than we thought at an aggressive rate of bulking.
42:59
Philip Pape: So you're going to have a bunch of people dreamer bulking now who maybe go too aggressive, and then they experience what you're talking about.
43:07
Kevin Palmieri: I'm trying to do like a quarter pound a week Quarter pound a week, which is definitely on the lean end.
43:14
Philip Pape: Yeah.
43:15
Kevin Palmieri: I'm trying to do it relative and again, I know my body very well.
43:18
Kevin Palmieri: There's a lot of stuff that goes into it.
43:22
Kevin Palmieri: I respond really well to just a little bit of extra food because I'm so used to being in a deficit.
43:28
Kevin Palmieri: I never bulked before.
43:30
Philip Pape: I think I bulked one time in my life I didn't know what I was doing.
43:32
Philip Pape: Oh, even as a bodybuilder, you didn't go through an off season to do that.
43:35
Philip Pape: That was the first time.
43:37
Kevin Palmieri: I ever bulked.
43:37
Kevin Palmieri: I see Yep to do that.
43:38
Kevin Palmieri: That was the first time I ever bolt.
43:40
Kevin Palmieri: I see Yep, I wasn't show ready before I started, but I already had a six pack.
43:47
Kevin Palmieri: I was in really good shape.
43:48
Kevin Palmieri: Then I went and got a coach.
43:49
Kevin Palmieri: Then I dieted down.
43:49
Kevin Palmieri: I lost like 15 pounds and I lost a ton of muscle.
43:51
Kevin Palmieri: Then I bolt and I was like, whoa, this is interesting, I'm super strong and I still have abs, somehow.
43:57
Kevin Palmieri: That was so.
43:59
Kevin Palmieri: That's, it's relatively new.
44:00
Kevin Palmieri: I mean, that was only about six or seven years ago and yeah, and you know what people?
44:05
Philip Pape: people have never experienced a bulk in that stand.
44:07
Philip Pape: A lot of women fall in that category, just to be totally honest, you've seen it with clients.
44:11
Philip Pape: I'm of the mind now to encourage more and more folks to be open to it, and if you could time it right, you know, during the winter for example, yeah, it helps.
44:18
Philip Pape: But what I think a lot of people do is they cycle, they cut in bulk too frequently and it just they kind of don't go anywhere and that's almost like staying at your level five.
44:26
Philip Pape: When you're trying to get a level 10, you have to push through something.
44:29
Philip Pape: So actually, good segue to like how do you do that?
44:32
Philip Pape: If you're now you've reached some type of level 10, let's say you got your initial goal in your first year or two of training Does that become your new level five?
44:45
Philip Pape: How do we reassess?
44:45
Kevin Palmieri: our goals to really keep pushing where we want to go.
44:47
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, I think as you become more competent, you become less okay with okay.
44:50
Kevin Palmieri: So I think as you become more competent and you see what you're capable of, your average just increases.
44:58
Kevin Palmieri: But I also think you and here's the this is why it's layered but I also think you're willing to let yourself go below your standard, because you also know you can get back above it.
45:09
Kevin Palmieri: There's something about having the belief to essentially look to a degree the way you want.
45:17
Kevin Palmieri: If you have the awareness, you have the work ethic and you have the strategy, it's way easier to do what we're talking about specifically when it comes to bulking.
45:26
Kevin Palmieri: But when you feel like you're in control, I think that's when you can set another goal.
45:34
Kevin Palmieri: It's almost like in the beginning.
45:35
Kevin Palmieri: The first time I ever got in a car with my mom, I remember thinking to myself how do you drive the car so well?
45:42
Kevin Palmieri: This seems impossible.
45:44
Kevin Palmieri: Like I don't understand.
45:45
Kevin Palmieri: I have taken this for granted.
45:46
Kevin Palmieri: Eventually I got my license and I became a good driver and then I was able to do things that I could never do, like I could talk on the phone.
45:53
Kevin Palmieri: I'm not saying to do this, but I could talk on the phone and drive.
45:55
Kevin Palmieri: Cool, that became sustainable.
45:57
Kevin Palmieri: I told my wife.
45:58
Kevin Palmieri: Eventually I want to learn how to drift cars.
46:00
Kevin Palmieri: That is something I've always wanted to do.
46:03
Kevin Palmieri: Then that will become sustainable for me and it won't be that much of a challenge anymore.
46:08
Kevin Palmieri: So me driving in a fast car might be boring Again maybe not the best example, but trying to create visualization with it.
46:14
Kevin Palmieri: So, yeah, that as you become more competent, I think that you become in more control and when you have more belief, you're able to take bigger chances.
46:23
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah, so if you have a level seven belief seven out of 10, and your own unique ability to create the physique you want, you might set a level nine goal, which for you is I'm going to look the best I ever have and maybe I'm ready to do a photo shoot or something.
46:38
Kevin Palmieri: So yeah, I think as you build belief, your ability to set goals increases, because it's not as scary as it used to be.
46:45
Kevin Palmieri: That's huge.
46:46
Philip Pape: That's huge, and you can build that belief even with a fairly sustainable level of maintenance.
46:52
Philip Pape: Where I'm going with that is when somebody learns that they can control their body composition, even if they don't lose or gain.
46:57
Philip Pape: Even that's powerful, because so many people feel like they have no control at all.
47:01
Philip Pape: Right, like they just I'm going to gain weight constantly because age and everything else.
47:05
Philip Pape: I think that's super powerful.
47:07
Philip Pape: And I'm also thinking of self-determination theory, which has three components agency right, the ability to make your own choice.
47:13
Philip Pape: Relatedness like there's community.
47:15
Philip Pape: And competence right, and that's what you're getting at.
47:18
Philip Pape: Is that confidence that if I do this input, I'm going to produce this output.
47:21
Philip Pape: I've done it, so now I can go this other direction.
47:23
Philip Pape: That's kind of crazy to most people, like bulking.
47:26
Philip Pape: It's exactly what I'm thinking.
47:27
Philip Pape: I'm like I can gain 30 pounds knowing I could lose 40 if I had to.
47:30
Philip Pape: Yeah, so super powerful and liberating.
47:33
Kevin Palmieri: I can imagine, like you said, I think for females specifically, bulking is hard, because if you don't and again, I'm not saying this, this is a fact but if you don't know how you got to where you got in terms of your leanness and the way your figure is, the last thing you want to do is lose that, because if it seems like it happened by accident, the last thing you're going to do is do something to the opposite front on purpose.
47:55
Kevin Palmieri: Yes, so it makes it makes.
47:57
Kevin Palmieri: It makes total sense.
47:58
Philip Pape: I can completely understand if you, if you could dip your toes a little bit into the fat loss side of the equation, be like okay, I see how this works, but I don't like dieting, so let's, we've proven it.
48:07
Lisa: Now let's go the other way Of course that happens a lot.
48:10
Philip Pape: That happens a lot.
48:10
Philip Pape: You know, my goal with every client is to convince them to stop dieting after they start dieting.
48:16
Kevin Palmieri: I respect it and you have.
48:18
Kevin Palmieri: You have far more experience and feet on the ground in that than I do, for sure.
48:23
Philip Pape: Oh man, this has been great.
48:24
Philip Pape: This has been a fun conversation, like pulling on so many threads for folks.
48:27
Kevin Palmieri: I've enjoyed it.
48:28
Philip Pape: I learned a lot.
48:29
Philip Pape: It's been fun.
48:29
Philip Pape: So you know what's coming my.
48:31
Philip Pape: My last question is just is there a question you wish I had asked that we didn't cover today, and if so, what would your answer be?
48:37
Kevin Palmieri: Yeah.
48:37
Kevin Palmieri: What is the honest truth about consistency that you're afraid to share but you think would be valuable?
48:44
Kevin Palmieri: That would be the question.
48:47
Kevin Palmieri: So when I was messing up in the gym and I wasn't very consistent for lack of better phrasing I did what we call the $100 habit.
48:56
Kevin Palmieri: I went to my wife and I gave her a $100 bill and I said if I don't go to the gym for seven days in a row, I want you to rip this up in front of me.
49:03
Kevin Palmieri: And she said there's no way I'm going to do that.
49:05
Kevin Palmieri: And I said it's already done in my head.
49:07
Kevin Palmieri: The pain of me seeing you rip up $100 in front of me is far greater than the pain of me going to the gym for the next seven days.
49:15
Kevin Palmieri: It worked so well.
49:21
Kevin Palmieri: If I just had we, it's a commitment device.
49:22
Kevin Palmieri: That's what it's called.
49:22
Kevin Palmieri: It's called commitment device.
49:23
Kevin Palmieri: If I always had a commitment device, I would never miss.
49:27
Kevin Palmieri: I think we're afraid to put ourselves under that pressure though I'm not saying you should necessarily but the reason when you're doing a bodybuilding show you don't miss is because you know you're getting on stage in your undies and you're either going to suffer now or you're going to get on stage and say, darn, I really, I really wish this went differently.
49:44
Kevin Palmieri: So creating some level of necessity and some level of pressure could be positive.
49:51
Kevin Palmieri: Just make sure you're doing it in the right amount, based on where you are.
49:55
Kevin Palmieri: I knew I could go to the gym seven times.
49:58
Kevin Palmieri: It's six minutes away.
49:59
Kevin Palmieri: I make my own schedule.
50:00
Kevin Palmieri: Get your ass together, kev.
50:02
Kevin Palmieri: For you it might be three times, it might be one time, it might be if I don't pull my workout clothes out of the basement, like I've been saying I'm going to do.
50:10
Kevin Palmieri: We don't get to go on date night this week, something like that right or if I don't get my running shoes out, I'm going to have to donate to a cause I don't believe in.
50:19
Kevin Palmieri: That's one that works really, really, really well.
50:22
Kevin Palmieri: So, yeah, something like that is usually pretty beneficial.
50:24
Philip Pape: That's a recurring theme actually that I've heard from experts who talk about, you know, motivation being driven by more commitment than anything else, some sort of commitment, and I was just thinking, like this bulking phase I'm going through, I really want to put together a whole story and videos and show that I got from here to there and pushed all my lifts up and it's kind of a commitment to.
50:46
Philip Pape: I've got to stick with this crazy volume on my legs that is killing me to get there.
50:51
Philip Pape: Okay, cause I know so.
50:53
Philip Pape: Anyway, if you're listening, like, take what Kevin's saying and come up with a commitment device.
50:57
Philip Pape: It could be a date on the calendar that something's happening and there's no judgment, right.
51:02
Philip Pape: I mean it could be going to the beach and wanting to look good on the beach.
51:04
Philip Pape: It could be a wedding photo shoot or, like you said, any day-to-day, week-to-week commitment.
51:09
Philip Pape: So good, one man.
51:10
Philip Pape: I appreciate it very much.
51:11
Philip Pape: I appreciate it very much.
51:12
Philip Pape: All right, man.
51:13
Philip Pape: So it's been a lot of fun, as always.
51:15
Philip Pape: I want people to be able to find you the best place.
51:17
Philip Pape: I know you're all over the place.
51:18
Philip Pape: I'll give them your private cell phone and they can call you.
51:21
Lisa: But give me a reality.
51:23
Philip Pape: Where do you want them to reach out?
51:24
Kevin Palmieri: to.
51:25
Kevin Palmieri: I just give out my email.
51:26
Kevin Palmieri: My email is Kevin at next level universe dot com.
51:29
Kevin Palmieri: If you have questions about anything, feel free to to reach out.
51:33
Kevin Palmieri: Anything I could do to add value I yeah, I don't know what specifically it would be, because you know Philip's the the fitness engineer for sure.
51:41
Kevin Palmieri: But you want to talk about podcasting or mindset or habits, whatever, I'm happy, I'm always a message away.
51:46
Philip Pape: I'd love to chat Kevin's modest.
51:47
Philip Pape: He uh undersells himself, but I'll sell.
51:49
Philip Pape: I'll sell him for you guys.
51:51
Philip Pape: He's a great guy.
51:51
Philip Pape: He's a kind person too, A very good person, Um, and I genuinely mean that.
51:56
Philip Pape: So great to know you, Great to have you on here.
51:58
Philip Pape: I'm so glad we did this.
51:59
Philip Pape: Thanks for coming on Like.
52:01
Kevin Palmieri: I appreciate you having me You're wonderful and anything I can do to add value, you know I'm always down.
52:04
Kevin Palmieri: Talk soon, buddy.