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Why the Car Business Has to Stop Sitting on the Bleachers with Don Hall · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  [upbeat music] I refuse to sit on the bleachers and watch. You pay me for the truth, and I will speak the truth. Not only are you not right, but you're full of shit. Called the police, said it's a stolen vehicle.
• 0:11
  Customer spends a night in jail. That kind of mentality still exists at some level, and we have to eradicate it in our business. It's about people. It ain't about cars.
• 0:21
  Give a damn about your people, and they'll give a damn about you. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. Michael, how, do people enlist in the military in Canada?
• 0:39
  Um, I think they do. You think? But I know- Is there a military in Canada? Yes. They have one of those? Yes. They ride horses. The Montana National Guard. What's it called? The Montana National Guard.
• 0:51
  Oh, [laughs] no, he didn't. There is, there is- You know, you move away two years ago- Look, I, uh, I- [laughs] You guys know Emer, 20-year retired marine combat veteran. I- And I've learned so much- I think I do too...
• 1:03
  about the military from him. And there have been- Yeah... a couple of times, admittedly, I, I was like, "So, do you guys ever do, like, training deployments with Canada?" And he's like, "Oh, yeah."
• 1:11
  And I'm like, "We're, we're, we're, like, they any good?" How's that go? [laughs] And, and he has assured me that Canada has a very fantastic- Good... well-trained, uh, military.
• 1:22
  But they, they- It's good to know that the northern border has- But I never knew anybody in it. Really? My one street here in Texas, I think there's, like, 47 veterans, uh, on my street. That sounds about right.
• 1:31
  It does sound about right. Yeah. Well, today we are, uh, going to speaking to another veteran of the industry and the armed forces, the one and only Don Hall, President of Virginia Auto Dealer Association.
• 1:42
  It's not our first conversation with Don. It certainly won't be our last. So, uh, we hope you buckle up, and we're about to see what he's gonna say. Buckle up.
• 1:50
  [upbeat music] Don Hall, Virginia Auto Dealer Association, always a pleasure to have you. We have no idea where this conversation's gonna go, but thanks for joining us today. Well, it's, uh, my privilege, and thank you.
• 2:05
  I look forward to being with, with you today, and Kyle, and, uh, talking about wherever it takes us.
• 2:11
  Yeah, so, um, just not, not too long ago, we got to spend some time together on the ground, uh, in Oceanside, California, at the, the culmination or the gathering of all the people who share your seat in all the states across the country.
• 2:24
  And, uh, it was a, a bit of a new experience for Kyle and I, but you kinda seemed like a fish in water at, at that event. How many years have you been going to that event, and what happened while we were there?
• 2:34
  Well, first of all, I've had the privilege of, of working at my capacity at the Virginia Automobile Dealers Association, uh, since the late 1980s. And so I've been to the meetings ever since.
• 2:44
  And I would say to my dealer friends out there, and my original life, uh, is in the retail car business, but these are 20 groups on, on steroids.
• 2:52
  They are large groups of me and my peers talking about how we can better serve the dealers and ultimately the consumers o- of our various states, how we can help dealers attain their goals and continue to be successful, and keeping in mind that staff and customers matter a lot.
• 3:09
  And that's part of our role is to be a messenger. So- No different than yourself...
• 3:13
  so, so basically, give us a, give us a, a summary of what you feel like the trajectory of the conversation was this year and what the industry as a whole should be expecting as we move into the next, uh, 12 months.
• 3:26
  Well, to your listeners and viewers today, I would say that you are part of that presentation, you know, uh, uh, about the art of communication and making sure we're getting our messages across and having some rhythm to what we say and do and so forth.
• 3:38
  And I think that's important for us. So we're in a learning capacity as well, and you and Kyle both are pros teaching us some things.
• 3:46
  But I think at the end of the day, we talked a lot about, you know, what's going on in Washington, DC with the FTC, how that impacts car dealers. What can we do as associations?
• 3:57
  And I will tell you, just to deviate maybe for a moment, you know, associations are very important.
• 4:02
  I remember as a young, you know, general manager with one of the dealers I worked for long ago, I said, "Why do I have to pay the association dues? [laughs] I don't care anything about that. I don't go to these things.
• 4:13
  That's for the old guys. It's not me. I don't wanna do that." Well, the truth is, it's the one entity in your life that lives, dies, breathes, and so forth for your existence. Mm. Mm.
• 4:25
  It's there to protect you dealing with state legislators, federal legislators, and dealing with the OEMs and, and so forth.
• 4:33
  And so we're there to make sure that we're doing the right job to protect, give you opportunities as business entrepreneurs, as business people, men and women taking on great risks.
• 4:45
  Our job is to make sure that we're helping you attain your goals and, and, and receive the kind of peace, joy, and happiness that you seek by being, uh, risk-takers in the auto industry.
• 4:56
  I, I actually wanna double-click on that because I think, you know, we made the assertion even last week when we were with you, we made the assertion, like, the younger generation is always gonna question kind of the establishment.
• 5:06
  And especially when it comes to associations, it is a political si- side of our business that, that it participates in, but it's also a consumer side of the business.
• 5:15
  Take us back to young Don Ha- Don Hall asking that question. For the people that may be a general manager or even a GSM that's coming up that's wondering, "How does the, how does the association impact me?
• 5:29
  What can I do to help it?" What... Before you came on board with the association or moved to that side of the business, what started to transition your thought process on that other than just a singular conversation?
• 5:41
  And how could maybe people that are thinking about, like, "How do I interact with my, my ATAEs or my association or NADA today" that may be not so familiar with it? Uh, Kyle, thanks for the question, number one.
• 5:55
  First and foremost, look, these associations do not belong to the Don Halls of the world. They are owned by the dealers in the states in which you reside. Mm. Number one Two, their purpose is to help you.
• 6:09
  And, and, and, and they do help you in many ways you're not even familiar with. In fact, I'm somewhat frustrated at times when I have car dealers say, "Hey, I just got back from a 20 Group meeting.
• 6:18
  And man, we ought to be doing this and doing that." I say, "Well, you know what?" Said, "What?" "We've had that on the books in our state for about 15 years." [laughs] "Where the hell you been?"
• 6:28
  [laughs] Pay attention to the details. Read what we send out. Take some time every morning. Young Don Hall said, "Take some time. Read." Take a little bit of time.
• 6:40
  You know, I think you ought to take some time if you're a person of, of faith to maybe read the scriptures. Hmm. Whatever scriptures that might be. But take some time to read the things that impact your business.
• 6:51
  This is a lifetime commitment. And I know when I was a young guy, everybody always said, "Well, I'm gonna be here until I can find a better job." Um, I never said that.
• 7:01
  But I didn't get in the car business in 1979 with the idea that I would be in it all these many years later at age 70, I'd still be in it. I never dreamed that. And love it. Mm-hmm. So... What's that? And love it.
• 7:14
  And not just love it, but be passionate about it, care about it. And so my comment is, if you care about it, and you're gonna be in this business for a lifetime, you owe it to yourself and to the industry to engage.
• 7:26
  Mm-hmm. Your association is there to engage. Now look, this does not sit well with my peers, what I'm getting ready to say. It does not sit well.
• 7:34
  If your association isn't doing the job that you think they ought to be doing, then get somebody who can and will. Hmm. And that, you have that responsibility, and you have that obligation.
• 7:45
  Now, there are a lot of pr- you know, pr- uh, parameters, if you will, or things you ought to think about by saying that. It's not a matter you don't like their personality or whatever.
• 7:52
  The question is, are we getting things done that protect us and our industry? Mm-hmm. The federal law does not allow car dealers to form unions. It would be antitrust to do so. Mm-hmm.
• 8:03
  Trade associations were formed in order to create an environment that can protect those entrepreneurs who take that risk. Today, I, given a choice, I would drop the term Virginia Automobile Dealers Association.
• 8:17
  Now, what we are is the Virginia Automobile We Represent Everybody in the Dealership Association. [laughs] Hmm. Because I fight just as hard for a tech as a- That's a long acronym, Don.
• 8:26
  [laughs] Oh, I, that's why I can't use it, 'cause guys like you tell me it doesn't work. And that, that's why you're pros and I'm not. Guy's like us.
• 8:32
  [laughs] But the reality is, we represent everybody that works in a dealership. We care about the techs. We care about the detail people. Mm-hmm. We care about what goes on, and our job is to make your life better.
• 8:44
  But it's also sometimes to prick that owner and say, "Hey, it's about people. It's about people." [clapping] "It ain't about cars. It's about people." Hmm.
• 8:53
  "The people who buy your cars, and more important, the people who sell and service your cars." It's about people, dealers. They're your biggest asset. Give a damn about your people, and they'll give a damn about you.
• 9:05
  I'll do anything for my dealers because they care about me. And it requires them to care, and I care as your staff member. So take care of your people, and they will take care of you.
• 9:16
  And every customer will have a be- better buying experience when they know they're cared for by the people they work for. Duh. Good night.
• 9:23
  [laughs] Okay, I, I, I need to follow this vein for a minute, and I, 'cause I'm intrigued by your passion, Don. This isn't a vein. This is like a, this is a- This is an artery... an artery. This is a heart.
• 9:31
  This is an artery, baby. I love you. Absolutely. Heart attack tea, baby. Or, or Mountain Dew. [laughs] It's Di- it's Diet Mountain Dew.
• 9:37
  What, what I'm thinking about is, as, as I'm listening to you, representing hundreds of dealers who, you know, following up on something you said earlier, are technically your boss, right? Correct.
• 9:49
  And they don't always agree. There's so many varying opinions. There's different perceptions on legislation and the market, and is it transactional? Is it human?
• 9:58
  What, what's maybe one of the hardest conversations you've had to have
• 10:02
  with your, a, a dealer or somebody in, in your purview that has helped change their mind to get them flowing in the direction that you're clearly flowing?
• 10:13
  You know, I made the comment earlier today, uh, to someone I was talking to that, that many of the dealers have, you know, managers that worked for them for many, many years. Or other managers that come in the system.
• 10:23
  And there's a tendency in our business sometimes with the owner to say, "Hey, the boss is always right. The boss is the boss." A- and philosophically, I get the concept.
• 10:32
  And over the years, I've found myself having to disagree with the boss, and saying to the boss, "Not only are you not right, but you're full of shit. You can't do this."
• 10:41
  [laughs] "And it's against the law, and more importantly, forget the law. It's the consequences of a bad decision." Hmm.
• 10:47
  And, and, and I am direct enough, Michael, that I do talk that way to the people because they know deep down inside, I'm not saying out of arrogance or anything else.
• 10:57
  I love and respect what they do and who they are and the risks that they take every day. Mm-hmm. But you pay me for the truth. And I will speak the truth, and then you will make a business decision accordingly.
• 11:11
  When you do something stupid, I'm going to say, "What a dumbass thing you just did. Why would you have done that? There is no justification for that kind of behavior, and it only teaches your people that it's okay." Hmm.
• 11:22
  "Well, what would you do then to correct it?" And fortunately, because I've got a long career working for dealers, people know I'm not doing this to create something special or different or whatever.
• 11:34
  I'm past that point in my life. It's about speaking the truth and then allowing people to act on it according to their own conscience and according to their own intellect.
• 11:43
  And whatever they do is their business, but rest assured, I've given you the truth. I've told you what the laws are and the consequences and why it's better when you do. If you choose to not act on it, shame on you.
• 11:55
  But that's your choice. I, I- I've given you the information and the tools. Hmm. I have a follow-up. You got it. I have a follow-up. I gotta ask a follow-up. But before that, a statement.
• 12:03
  Boys, can you not wait to see what Auto Collabs is gonna look like when we're 70 and don't give two craps anymore? I just want y'all to know when, when, when- Tell them the title, Kyle...
• 12:16
  life gets to that point- Tell them K- tell them the title of the podcast. We already have it. Yeah, it's, it's like we, we can't- Things We Can't Say... things we can't talk about. Things We Can't Say.
• 12:23
  Things we can't say. Things We Can't Say is the name of the podcast. We'll say those things at some point. Don's already... That's called Don Woke Up This Morning. [laughs] Yeah. Right? [laughs] Okay.
• 12:29
  It's 5:00 on the Peloton, and you've seen how many rides I do and how much track time I put in. You got over 1,000 rides consecutively on the Peloton, Don. Wow. 1,000 days, have not missed one day. Wow. Every morning.
• 12:41
  Good for you. Sunshine or not, feel good, feel bad, get over it, suck it up, baby. Let's go to work. Let's go out and make a difference in the world. We have an obligation.
• 12:50
  We're living at a time where most people would rather sit on the bleachers and watch. I refuse to sit on the bleachers and watch.
• 12:56
  Our role, all three of you guys, our role is to make a difference, to get out and cause people to think, "Wait a minute, is this right?" Not sit on the bleachers.
• 13:06
  We cannot have a co- a, a country or an industry of apathy. "I just go along 'cause it's just easier." [laughs] "I'm gonna retire in five more years, and then I won't worry about it." [laughs] No, no. Get engaged.
• 13:18
  Be involved. Wow. Okay. I wanna form a Peloton group right now- Yeah. Can I-... with you. Can I fo- one, here's, here's the follow-up, but also, first of all, I, I work with a Marine. I gotta ask, are, are you a Marine?
• 13:29
  [laughs] Guilty as charged, Michael. Are you... Well, this, this street kid from LA was heading into some serious trouble in life.
• 13:36
  In February of 1974, as a 17-year-old with no parents, having to find one to sign, uh, the, the, the, the, the form that I could join, the Marine Corps saved my life. Wow. I spent- Mm...
• 13:49
  one week locked up in a jail cell in the Marine Corps because I was such a screw-up kid wi- with, with, with a, with a chip on my shoulder, and broad shoulders at that, but thank God for the Marine Corps. Uh, it is...
• 14:02
  It, it changed my life. It makes me who I am. Semper Fi. Do or die. Um, you know, it, it, it was my salvation as a young man. Wow. Well, thank you for your service.
• 14:12
  I work with a Marine, and I'm like, "This man is putting off-" [laughs] "... strong Marine energy." I gotta know that. But here's the follow-up.
• 14:19
  That same, uh, discussion, so I, I ask about the dealers being the boss and how you have those difficult conversations.
• 14:26
  Flipping the table now, you're sitting across from a legislator who has already made up their mind about car dealers. Mm.
• 14:33
  What are, what are maybe some, uh, perspectives you bring to the table that can help change their mind? Yeah, it's a great question. Michael, I, I think part...
• 14:42
  First of all, at the end of the day, no matter who people are in their titles, they're still just people. That's right. And just because you're a senator or a delegate or a governor- That's right...
• 14:52
  or a US senator or whatever, they're still just people. And, and their goals were different than the, the four of us and our goals. Um, and, and so they are what they are. W- Bravo. Congratulations.
• 15:05
  What I am is an industry expert. I can tell you what goes on in the hearts of the people that I serve. They're not perfect any more than you as a politician is perfect.
• 15:14
  But if you'll listen to me and my story, I can tell you back home the kinds of things they wanna do and are doing, and where either an OEM makes it impossible or certain laws make it easier or tougher.
• 15:26
  And so it's a matter of relating to people and telling them your story in a way that's understandable, that you're not asking for things that you probably ought not to be asking for.
• 15:36
  It's still people dealing with people. And so I, I, I...
• 15:40
  As much as I like to talk about lobbying as being this unique thing, the truth is it's no different than selling a car or a truck, uh, to a customer, or services in the service drive when you come in.
• 15:50
  And that is relating to people, having some empathy for their life. "How are you doing? How was your day?" Rather than me trying to get out my message and trying to close you and do whatever. "How are things going?"
• 16:01
  Listening to them, and then in doing so, you're able to serve their needs when you have a better feel. "Well, you know, I've got another child on the way." "How many kids do you have?" "Well, I got five kids."
• 16:11
  "Well, let me talk to you about some of the vehicles today we have with that third row seat. There's some new vehicles on our lot today that have got third row seats, and they've got this, and they got...
• 16:19
  And by the way, we've added some additional things." So with lobbyists, in dealing with legislators, in my case with legislators, it, it's about talking about in a way that people can understand the message.
• 16:30
  You try to relate it- Yeah... to their craft, where, where they come from in their world as well.
• 16:34
  So if I'm dealing with a, with a CPA or a lawyer or whatever, I try to find some way of giving them an analogy in their business, in our business, and why we need this or need that.
• 16:45
  Um- I, I think it's important that you said, like, uh, 'cause, because I'm an industry expert or because we. Like, I, I was talking to a dealer friend, uh, the other week that he, he was in, in Washington working.
• 16:57
  I don't know who he was with, but the reality is, is a lot of these legislators are lawyers, or they are, uh, you know, they were previous accountants or what... You know, they came up through the political.
• 17:10
  They never thought about auto probably. No. There's a good chance they, like, m- maybe have bought one car in their life, right? Don't, don't even know an auto dealer.
• 17:18
  They don't know anybody that's worked for an auto dealer, but yet they are having to make decisions that dramatically impact the industry, and bringing that education to them is extremely valuable.
• 17:28
  And I think that, uh, like you said, if you can relate to that person in their context, their worldview, then that allows them to kinda consume the information and the knowledge.
• 17:36
  And Kyle, a good example that, i- is this. Um, most people assume that the car dealers, uh, that the cars are owned by the manufacturers. They're on consignment. The manufacturers may even own the facilities.
• 17:48
  A dealer is, you know, just sort of selling their product, and then there's, the dealer's not really, you know, an owner of, or owns the parts in the parts department, or pays all the people or, or whatever.
• 17:58
  Y- you know, the truth of the matter is we're paying for vehicles long before they ever arrive, even when they're damaged. Mm-hmm.
• 18:03
  Uh, and that's why we have laws that says when they are damaged, you're gonna take them back, you know, from us. So we're paying for these things well in advance.
• 18:10
  We own the facilities that cost us millions and millions and millions of dollars. We have the, you know, 84 staff members that work on our team. Ooh.
• 18:19
  We send them off to school to become certified, you know, with a particular OEM. We send them off, you know, to, for other, uh, certifications and so forth.
• 18:26
  And so there's a huge commitment on our part- At the same time, we wanna do things right. FTC has, you know, reiterated that point in all they've done.
• 18:35
  We wanna make sure you know what the price is, and that you have the ability to be able to make decisions.
• 18:41
  And as an industry, one of the things that we've gotta get better at is understand, stop trying to prove who's got the biggest muscles or who rides the Peloton longer than the next guy.
• 18:49
  [laughs] Meaning, getting into it with customers.
• 18:51
  "I'm gonna prove that I'm, I'm the stronger personality than that guy 'cause he said, well, I, I worked in the car business when I was a young guy out of college for a year, so I know all about your business."
• 19:00
  "Well, wait till he meets me. By God, I'm gonna show him. I can...
• 19:04
  I'm the sales manager here, and I'm, I'm gonna have this deal, and we're gonna hold gross, and we're gonna do this, flip him the F and I, we're gonna make, you know, $2,800 on the back end. You watch it."
• 19:13
  That mentality, I understand it, I used to teach it, and I respect it in your personal life. Be tough. But when it comes to be customers, don't be tough. Mm. Be understanding- Be tender... be empathetic. Right.
• 19:26
  Be a listener. Tough and tender. We are phenomenal. When do you think that flipped? Like, because, because that's the way I grew. Same thing. It was like, that was my early, my first couple years.
• 19:33
  It was the only thing I knew. It was the only way that I got trained, to kinda be tough, like be the... You take control, all this type of stuff, right?
• 19:40
  And I think there's good elements of control, don't, don't get me wrong. But when do you think you started to transition in your thought process on, like, the global how to treat the business? 'Cause I...
• 19:52
  What I'm hearing is there were, there were these moments of pivot that caused you to rethink maybe the way that you had always been taught. Uh, I, I pro- I didn't pivot while I was in the retail. No, I, I...
• 20:02
  Listen, I liked working key, key, bell, bell, whistle, whistle seven days a week. [laughs] As a manager, you know, I, I, I never wanted to go home.
• 20:09
  I wanted to control the deals 'cause I could control the gross, the front end and the back end. No, I, I, I never. So I was all about it.
• 20:16
  I think, frankly, it was my introduction into VADA where I began to see a different world.
• 20:21
  And then as, you know, Michael asked me a minute ago, you're dealing with legislators and others that don't always understand our business. We assume that people either know a whole lot or nothing about our business.
• 20:31
  A- and, and again, we, we think that we're there to marshal them around a- and, and get what we want, and that's the end of the story.
• 20:38
  Um, I, uh, I unfortunately, and this is true of all my peers, we don't get phone calls or complaints from legislators, federal or state, that say, "Oh, we wanna tell you, car dealers are the greatest people.
• 20:52
  We've all bought cars recently. This has been great. It's so good." What we get are the bad stories. Yeah. We get the bad stories. We get the story about a guy buying a truck, and he bought it.
• 21:02
  It was a truck he wants, a truck he demoed. He went home, they called him and said, "Oops, we sold you the wrong truck. We pulled the wrong invoice, worked the wrong deal. We're gonna lose $6,000. Bring it back."
• 21:11
  He said, "Go to hell. I bought this truck. It's the one you put me in. It's the one I drove." And the dealer said, or the general manager said, "We can solve that problem. Call the police," said, "It's a stolen vehicle."
• 21:21
  Customer spends a night in jail. Whoa. It's those kind of stories that I have to hear. Whoa. And the dealer says, "Don't worry about it. We got insurance." Whoa. That's unbelievable.
• 21:30
  That kind of mentality still exists at some level, and we have to eradicate it in our business. Yeah. Those stories can ruin every good thing we do in our community- That's right... when those stories get on the street.
• 21:41
  You're absolutely right. So Don, this, this has me thinking about, you know, something that I've, I've shared with Kyle and Michael, but, um, I've been a little hesitant to share publicly, and, and I'm going to.
• 21:50
  I'm actually gonna talk about it right now. But I've had conversations with a lot of people at all levels of the industry, um, across associations, across large groups, across small groups. And when
• 22:04
  I talk about the mission and why we as More Than Cars are trying to make this industry people fight to join, and talk about some of the very negative stories that you're, you're saying right now, and we put forth the fact that we need to be proactive in creating content and telling stories about so many of the amazing people and amazing things going on out there.
• 22:27
  Everyone, to a person, nods their head, applauds what we're doing, say, "Yes, somebody needs to do this."
• 22:34
  But the moment we say, "Are you willing to stand beside us and figure out a way to financially back some of this production and some of these stories?"
• 22:42
  Everybody either fi- finds a reason not to, or they say, "We can't for one reason or another." Meanwhile, we see all these other things being prioritized and money spent on, and it feels like we're on this hamster wheel.
• 22:56
  And, and that's how we feel. Like, and when people do that, I feel like maybe you don't really believe this. It's actually a little disheartening. Mm.
• 23:02
  And, and so, like, I just wanna get your thoughts on, you know, why you think that might be the case, or what... Maybe even give us some advice how we might be able to, to get over that hurdle.
• 23:11
  You know, I think to some degree, you know, many of the people that I love and respect, they're in this business. They... You tend to build walls around your business.
• 23:18
  It's your business, and you're gonna be different than everybody else. Uh, the reality is we're in a big industry. Mm-hmm.
• 23:24
  Uh, and we're an industry that we need to work with others, we need to set good examples for others, and so forth, in how we operate.
• 23:31
  And so I think what happens is that the dealers sometimes focus too much on the dollar, frankly and honestly, and you've seen it firsthand. They do.
• 23:41
  And my comment is, and I c- I believe this with all my heart, in fact, uh, Kyle, I know you know this to be true, and that is oftentimes it's the individual you make the most money on, you know, was the easiest to deal with and has the less complaints and the less everything.
• 23:54
  It's the person that steals the car, you make no gross on it, and, and then they wear you out for the next four years- [laughs]... about every little thing that goes on. A- and so the reality is- Yes...
• 24:03
  if we're treating people right, and we're doing the right kinds of things, and we're stepping up where we need to step up, the, the money will come back to you tenfold. You will do well.
• 24:14
  So what, what may be perceived as spending a lot of money in order to pacify or take care of or be involved in good causes and so forth, ultimately it will bring back more money.
• 24:24
  And at the end of the day, even if it doesn't, even if it doesn't bring back more money, you've done what's right for human beings. For somebody else that matters in life. Somebody else. I, I- And that matters...
• 24:38
  I hear that, and the, the question I'm asking and what I'm presenting is a, is a little bit different in the sense that the industry as a whole, and that could be individual dealers, that could be associations, that could be OEMs, being willing to invest in the infrastructure and production that it takes to actually proactively tell stories so that when a bad actor comes up- Right...
• 25:01
  so that when legislation comes up, we actually have something to show people that we've been building. Look at these amazing people. Look at these...
• 25:08
  Like, that's one of the reasons I love Time, Time, you know, uh, Dealer of the Year Award, even though that is... It gives the broader audience a little look into some of the people at a very surface level.
• 25:20
  But I, I was m- more asking about the resistance. Maybe we're just not used to it. Have you seen the industry actually g- ever get together and produce, like, proactive retail-facing- Well-...
• 25:32
  storytelling content that would actually be proactive instead of reactive?
• 25:36
  Paul, there's been some discussion, without going into details, but some discussion in terms of what we've been through with the FTC of late o- of really, you know, even a national campaign that could involve, you know, tens of millions of dollars.
• 25:48
  Mm-hmm. You know, telling our story and so forth. I think kind of, uh, I'm not here to justify necessarily- Sure... but, but here's the reality.
• 25:55
  The reality is that when you do surveys, um, of various buyers, if you will, um, oftentimes they say they don't really care much about our story, about what we do outside of the dealership.
• 26:08
  All we wanna do is be able to go and buy a car, do so with less friction and less time, and we don't really care about much else.
• 26:16
  And it makes you wonder sometimes, is it worthy of spending these dollars, whether it's w- for charitable type things or for, you know, PR type things- I hon- yeah... that tells my story better.
• 26:25
  I don't understand what the value of that survey is, honestly. That's, that's the- We al- we already know that... that's what we're hearing, is so how do we overcome that?
• 26:34
  And the only way we overcome that is by giving the customer a better buying experience so that... You know, and it reminds me a quick, it's a, not a joke, but it's a story always said.
• 26:44
  You know, everyone hates members of Congress except they love their congressman. For their own. Everyone hates- Right. That's right... the dealer till they love their dealer. Right, which is, which is exactly my point.
• 26:52
  Like, nobody cared about a duck call until Duck Dynasty introduced you to the people and the heart behind the duck call. Right.
• 26:59
  And I think we're missing the boat, and we're literally as an industry walking around like we've never consumed mass media in our lives.
• 27:06
  [laughs] And we can't look around and see how everybody else story tells around the thing they love, and for some reason it doesn't apply to us. I'm sorry. So a quick- My rant is over... commercial plug.
• 27:15
  [laughs] A quick commercial plug. I think, uh, SoTo, what you do, I've had the privilege of being at one of your meetings. I think I, I, I left incredibly invigorated, um, because I think that's what you're doing.
• 27:27
  You're, you're, you're planting those seeds about those kinds of messages. It sounds like from what I can read on [laughs] LinkedIn that, that the, you know, Women in Automotive, uh, i- is the same kind of- Yes...
• 27:37
  you know, great feeling- Absolutely... about.
• 27:38
  And so I think w- we're gonna see an evolution going on because if people like, and you are the beginners of it, you, you are the frontiersmen that have led the way on this, that it, it's going to lead us more down this path.
• 27:49
  The younger people seem to get it better and are more interested in exactly what you're talking about. Yes.
• 27:56
  A message that all can understand and resonates, that talks about the virtues and benefits of who we are as people and how we treat people, and they're part of making those changes. And again, I, and I...
• 28:07
  This is no smoke, ladies and gentlemen who are listening. When you go to the SoTo meeting conference, I'm telling you, you walk out thinking, "Wow.
• 28:15
  There's so much I've learned and so much I can do, and what a great industry." And I think, again, based on LinkedIn only, 'cause I wasn't there. Mm.
• 28:22
  But when you look at the automotive, you know, uh, Women in Automotive, same thing. Yeah, same heart. Yeah. Same heart. Absolutely.
• 28:27
  And that's what we need more of, is those k- Because I think the, that it's gonna grow to the point, Paul, where your message is going to be, "Why didn't we do it back in 2026?" I hope so. I don't know. I don't know.
• 28:38
  I don't know. That's how we- We're doing 2030... that's what we wanna be remembered for. That's what we're here for.
• 28:41
  Well, Don, uh, from your mouth to everybody's ears that's listening and maybe more, uh, is our hope and goal. Your passion is, uh, infectious, and thank you for bleeding this industry. Yes.
• 28:52
  It is, it is a, um, um, a matter of, uh, importance in our minds and I think to our entire industry. So Don, thanks so much for joining us here on Auto Collabs today. You've been a joy as a guest.
• 29:03
  [upbeat music] That man, not passionate at all. Yo, I'm glad we told people- [sighs]... to buckle up at the- Ooh. [laughs]... at the front of this episode. Should I say low energy? [laughs] Came in firing.
• 29:18
  My, I, I, I said it to him in there, but I think, I, I think a lot of times, and I think maybe we broadly need to do this as an industry, is recognize how we've changed. Yeah.
• 29:28
  And for him to go, "Yeah, yeah, that was, that was the way I considered doing this business.
• 29:32
  And over time I've reconsidered that because I've understood a more broad, you know, perspective on the way the consumer thinks, the way the dealer thinks, the way the legislators think, and we have to do better."
• 29:43
  Mm-hmm. And now that he's g- he's come full circle on that, is, is communicating that across every medium that he has. And I think as an industry, we, we probably need to say that more.
• 29:54
  You know, we had a bad rap, and we- Yeah... and we owned, we earned it. And, but we've pivoted, we've changed. We've moved to a new perspective. That's right. He, he silently...
• 30:05
  I, I don't know if you guys picked up on this, but he silently put to bed the argument in our industry that's like, i- if you weren't a dealer, then you don't get it. Or if you weren't a vendor- Mm...
• 30:16
  then dealer, you don't get it. He, he- Yeah... silently said it when he shared the old kind of school way of doing things the way he did it.
• 30:24
  And Kyle, I think you asked him what shifted his perspective, and he said, "It didn't actually shift until I started working for the association." Like, he, he kind of admitted, well, like,
• 30:35
  "I needed some more lived experience, and I needed to look at the industry from a different angle." That I- Yeah... "I couldn't just get it sitting in one spot." And I think that's such a valuable lesson for all of us.
• 30:45
  It's why we want everyone to have a seat at this table to examine the subject matter from our varied lived experience and different roles. And I worked retail, I didn't.
• 30:55
  I know, Paul, you, you joke about it in our episodes like, "Hey, so like tell me, what was working in retail like?" sort of a thing.
• 31:01
  And it's like, that's actually the right question to ask if we want everyone to have a seat at the table. So that stood out to me. I thought that was, that was a pretty small, silent, but poignant, uh- I love that...
• 31:12
  thing that he brought up. And let's make that the last word. On behalf of Kyle Mountsier, Michael Cirillo, and myself, thank you as always for joining us on Auto Collabs. [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs.
• 31:30
  [laughs] Are we recording yet? Are we rolling yet? Not yet