Latest / Massive Agent Podcast / MAP 070: How Mailing Postcards Can Actually Be a Highly Effective Digital Strategy? w/ Joy Gendusa

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MAP 070: How Mailing Postcards Can Actually Be a Highly Effective Digital Strategy? w/ Joy Gendusa · Massive Agent Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: So direct mail could actually be trackable and actually have a digital component to it, and Dustin Brome could actually be a fan of direct mail?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this show might blow your mind a little bit.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're sitting down with Joy Gendusa, the founder and CEO of Postcard Mania, to find out how direct mail could actually be a major, major benefit to your marketing.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: The Massive Agent Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We lead generation tips and strategies to get you more leads and sell more homes.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love to buy houses.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: I like to sell houses.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Leads a week.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh have I got your attention now?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Here's your host, Dustin Brown.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is up, everybody?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to episode number 70 of the Massive Agent Podcast.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Woo! Episode 70.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, this is the number one podcast hosted by me and the number one podcast on the planet that starts with the word massive and is for real estate agents and loan officers.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that is that's science right there, guys.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's science.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know me, if you're new to the show, my name is Dustin Brome, your host.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I am a national speaker, trainer, and coach on all things lead generation and real estate marketing.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I am an active realtor in Salt Lake City, Utah with EXP Realty.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the co-founder of the Industry Syndicate, Real Estate's First Media Network.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this show is, of course, a proud founding member of that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the founder of the Massive Agent Society, our Facebook ads lead generation training and coaching program where we teach you how to take control, take full control over your lead generation.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, any new business, or no, any business must know how to get new clients in the door.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Every new, every business must have that ability.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you are paying for portal leads, if you're paying Zillow or Realtor.com, first off, you're not branding yourself.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're just paying for leads.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So no one's ever seeing your branding really.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're running Facebook ads or Google ads or LinkedIn ads or Pinterest ads or TikTok ads or whatever the hell, people are seeing your branding.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're seeing your messaging.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they're clicking on it and becoming a lead or not is another story, but they're seeing it.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a branding component to it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, this is what I'm passionate about teaching you how to fully take control over your lead generation.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And our Massive Agent Society program shows you how to do that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: We do have lifetime memberships still available.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: There are many, many markets still available, but we do only allow one agent and one loan officer per market.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to find out if your market is even available anymore or if it's sold out forever with one of our lifetime memberships, go to MassiveAgenSociety.com and click on sold out markets or claimed markets at the top in the toolbar.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, today's show, we are sitting down with the founder and CEO of Postcard Mania.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: These guys have I think they said they've they have printed over 1.8 billion postcards.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: They were founded in 1998, which is super cool.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: They are an industry leader on the Inc.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: 500 list, and they hit Postcard Mania employs 245 people at the time of this podcast.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Super cool.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And their founder, Joy Jandusa, she started as a graphic designer.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so she was a graphic designer and launched this company not having a clue how to do it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love her story.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Super uh super helpful.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone, anyone entrepreneurial at all.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening to the show, obviously you are.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: This will be helpful both on the entrepreneurial business side and the marketing side.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what they do is super, super interesting.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: They they take something that you've heard me probably in certain contexts rail against negatively, direct mail.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: If if you have a strategy of getting a bunch of new business and all you're gonna do is send out postcards, and that's all you do, and you only send out one or two, it's not gonna work.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where where it works, and you'll hear really down in the details about how this works, but it complements and enhances all your other activities, social media, Facebook ads, Google ads.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a banner or if you have an ad in in the high school football uh football program, like that helps.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it all works together.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: This this really takes takes episode 65 and takes it to a new level, specifically about what postcard mania does.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And guys, this could be a great, great resource for you.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to dive into this interview with Joy.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Real quick though, um I I swear, five or six times a week I'm asked, how do you do those square videos that you have on Instagram?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do you and I I know I put them on Facebook and LinkedIn too, but those square videos with the the scrolling red progress bar around the bottom.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I use a program for Mac called Screenflow.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a Mac, go to MassiveAnPodcast.com slash screenflow and check that out.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's also the same program that I use to edit this show.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I edit all my audio, I edit all my video, I create a template so I can do those square videos, I do my flash briefing audio, I do all of it with screen flow, massiveagentpodcast.com slash screenflow and check it out.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is well worth the investment.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a hundred bucks, 130 bucks, something like that, one time.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I bought it three years ago or four years ago.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Great, easy to use video and audio editor.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that is how I do those videos, guys.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I do it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe if you have not subscribed yet to the show, especially on iTunes, aka Apple Podcasts.
• 5:36
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• 6:03
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• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And some of you guys, if you listen to our massive agent minute flash briefing, you know I've been having some technical difficulties and that I'm not exactly happy about it.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I and it's so confusing and so frustrating because trying to figure out is it Buzz Sprout's issue, which BuzzSprout is my host, is it their issue, or is it on the Alexa side of things?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm finding out they all just blame each other.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought I had it figured out.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: We went a week, we went a full week without a flash briefing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: It just kept replaying Friday, the the episode from Friday the 12th about Zillow home loans.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was good content, but it it just kept playing it every day.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it did not advance to the next episodes, which really pisses me off.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a terrible timing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I found out about it on Sunday night, and Monday morning I was leaving with the family and two young children, flying down to San Diego.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was speaking on Tuesday, and then I spent the rest of the week with the family.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have any time to troubleshoot this thing.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it went basically a week just replaying that Zillow Home Loans um episode.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we fixed that, but now I'm having a little bit of trouble again at the time of recording.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna hear this on Thursday morning, Thursday the 25th.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: If if if I don't have it figured out by Thursday morning, I will be a bald man.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I will have ripped out all my hair, and I'll probably have caused serious bodily harm to myself and others.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you might need to reach out and offer some support, maybe even some bail money, because we're gonna have real frickin' issues if this shit does not get fixed.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, technical difficulties, my frustration aside, it happens.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean, oh, I sh I and if you're thinking, well, that's why I don't do a flash briefing, or that's why I don't do a podcast, so I don't have to deal with that, you're thinking so small.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a speed bump.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a blip.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I I pontificate and I I uh you know, I what's the word?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's the frickin' word?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I bloviate.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, there's a there's a word.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that makes sense in this context.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I bloviate, I um uh hyperbolize.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, I talk a big game, I'm frustrated, but I get over it in like a nanosecond.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if you're a listener to the Massive Agent Minute and you're wondering why, why are we having these issues, technical difficulties, I'm working as hard as I can to get it figured out, and by the time the show comes out, uh it should be fixed.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I had it fixed over the weekend, but then this morning it's not playing the show that I had scheduled for today.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get it figured out.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the Massive Agent Minute is back.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have not yet listened to the Massive Agent Minute on Alexa, you don't even need a an Echo device.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can just get the Alexa app on your phone, and then you just sign in with Amazon and you can uh listen to flash briefings.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is say, hang on, my my device is plugged in here.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: One sec.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: One sec.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is say, Alexa, enable the Massive Agent Minute.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she does.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you listen.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have not yet, please enable the Massive Agent Minute.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have a brand new show every single day, seven days a week.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it's an extension of this show where I can share an idea, tip, strategy, story, app recommendation, um, a joke.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, whatever.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever I feel like would add some sort of value to you, I will share it on the flash briefing.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a nice supplement and extension of this podcast.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so let's get into this interview with Joy Gendusa, the founder and CEO of Postcard Mania.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: This was really, really fun.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Joy, for doing this interview.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: You brought a lot of great information.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think you guys will really enjoy it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump into it right now.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what's up, guys?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here with Joy Gendusa.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: She is the founder and the CEO of Postcards Mania.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is a really cool show because they've done something that I have not seen before.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've always thought, because if you listen to this show, you know we talk a lot about digital marketing.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about Facebook ads, we talk about social media, we talk about all of that stuff, which which we should.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But but co postcard Mania is a company that's found a way to put like a digital and trackable spin on something that we all think isn't trackable or isn't digital.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh they they consider themselves a marketing company that specializes in lead generation.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joy, welcome to the Massive Agent Podcast.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for taking time.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited to hear what you guys are doing and how it can help agents and loan officers.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm super happy to be here with you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: I appreciate that you invited me on.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're down in Florida, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Clearwater area?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, very, very nice.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was in Florida in January, Fort Lauderdale specifically.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Florida's just so nice, and the water's so much warmer than California.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, for sure.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: And we're having an amazing season, like it hasn't gotten super, super hot yet, which we're just having gorgeous weather here.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So nice.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh California gets all the glory, I feel like, but their water is so damn cold that Florida's underrated with the water temp.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a big deal.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's true, and you know, I don't know if you know this, but Clearwater Beach has been voted the number one beach in the country year after year after year.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard that actually.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a a client, a member of our coaching program who's in Clearwater, and um he he makes sure I don't he he's very, very uh he's very sure to that I do not forget Clearwater is the best beach.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys are on the the west coast of Florida, right?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, on the Gulf of Mexico, so it's yes, even warmer.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Love it, love it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Joy.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you founded Postcard Mania how long ago?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh June of 1998.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: 98, okay.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, I imagine your business model has changed quite a bit since then.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: Quite a bit.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Quite a bit.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could in in just a minute or two, give us uh tell us how you got started.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: What were you doing before you founded the company?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what led you to found the company?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of give us some background on postcard maniac because I'm I'm super interested, especially knowing that you started it before the year 2000, before the big dot-com boom.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, the story, you know, it's hard to tell in a minute or two.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: I never I didn't have a business plan.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: I never thought I would have a company with, you know, 255 staff generating 60 million a year in revenue that I I didn't um know that I even had um the skill or the or the innate ability to to lead and and grow and be a CEO.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: I had no idea.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: I basically was a graphic designer and I started brokering printing and um for my clients that I was doing graphic design for, and it was just me and a couple of staff, and then I was trying to figure out how to get it to go from me having to understand everything and wear all the major hats um to having more of a uh scalable business.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: So um I was trying to figure it out and I wasn't really coming up with anything, and I was promoting my own little agency.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_04: I think I had about four staff, and I wound up uh getting in the mail, I was promoted to by a company that uh was gonna sell me some postcards, 5,000 of them for$425.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: Now, back in 1998, that was kind of like an unheard of low price.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I jumped on it, I designed a postcard to design my little firm, and I sent it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: It was I had to put it on a CD and put it in a FedEx envelope to send the art to the company.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: And uh just like a long time ago.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: That was crazy.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: And um so then they had a FedEx back to me a proof of my art that I designed in a printed manner, you know, like how the proof would look.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: So they sent it back to me, and I noticed that they put their own 800 number on my design.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I called them on the phone, I was like, dude, I I sell printing, I'm really not interested in my potential customers from my mailing calling you directly.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: They put it on in like five-point font, you know.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so the the guy said, Oh, well, if you don't want that on there, then it's gonna cost you$50 for us to remove it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: I said, But you put it there.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I know, but if you read the fine print, you know, um, it's$50 more if you don't want our 800 number on there.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: I asked to speak to a supervisor, supervisor gets on the phone, I kind of him and ha, and the supervisor says, Okay, I'll take it off this time, but next time, you'll now you know it's gonna cost you 475, not 425.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you very much.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: I hung up the phone, I walked out of my office to my four staff, and I said, We're gonna start a postcard company, and we're gonna call it postcard mania, and we're gonna promote directly to small businesses instead of the trade.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was only promoted to because I was I had a little design agency.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: And they all kind of looked at me like, okay, whatever, whatever, Joe.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for that declaration.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: And that's how it started.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, so the frustration that you had dealing with that just like something happened inside you, and you're just like, screw this, I'm gonna do it better.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: I just thought I'll do it better, and I won't put my phone number on everybody's card without them knowing it, you know, and I'll that's that is how it started.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: And and really we just started with printing and shipping postcards, and then you know, probably within a year we started offering to mail the postcards for them, and probably within the next year we started acquiring the lists and the the data for them, and um, you know, and just we just evolved, and um, it was really something that was so needed and wanted by small businesses that we grew, and there was nothing else like it, that we grew really, really, really fast.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: So we probably, you know, I started in June of '98, and I think my first full year in '99, we did about 640,000 in revenue.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh in my second full year, we did 1.3 million in revenue.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the next year we did over three million in revenue.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: So we grew really fast in the beginning.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I what I love about this too, about your story is you said that you didn't know how to do any of this.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like you went to business school, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you just you jumped in, you're like, screw it, I'm gonna I'm gonna build this thing and figure it out along the way.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you obviously have.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that we can we can dive a little bit more into these into this entrepreneurial discussion, because I think that that's so helpful for agents, for loan officers, anyone who's in business for themselves, really.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um wow.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when you when you first started then, what were within the first few years, what was the biggest headwind?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: What was the biggest frustration to to growth that you guys had?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it was constantly finances.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: I kept having to figure out how you know what is the quantity of business that I need to do in order to be able to turn a profit at this.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I would get to that quantity, I would have all these additional new expenses that I didn't know I was gonna have.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: So it was really the learning curve for me as a business person was crazy.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I also think that if I did know a lot of what I know now back then, I probably would have been too scared to jump off the cliff, you know.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_04: I had two small kids.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: At that time, my husband that I was married to was a guitar player or teacher.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, uh it was um, I think I would have been too scared financially had I known what I was in for.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, the biggest headwind for me was constantly like, how am I going to balance this financially?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: How am I gonna pay myself, pay my staff, continue to market my company and and actually grow this and make it scalable where it makes a lot of money?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I and I think that's probably the case for most businesses.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's I struggle with that myself in my business.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all do to a certain extent.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: How did you then, since I mean you're a postcard company, how did you how did you market your business?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get most of your new customers in those early days?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: Postcards.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, literally I practice what I preach.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: And and to this day, Justin, I I practice what I preach.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: Postcard Mania mails out 160,000 postcards every single solitary week to promote postcard mania.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: How many?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_04: 160,000.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Per week?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Per week.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_04: Every single solitary week.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's pretty crazy.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: I I definitely am a believer, a big time believer.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say so.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: I've got the numbers to back it up.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so how then, over the last however long, has postcard mania evolved?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what really intrigued me and why I really was excited to have you as a guest on the show is you don't just print postcards and send them.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's plenty of vendors that do that.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys need postcards, business cards, door hangers, you know, flyers, whatever, there's printers everywhere.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mean, and there's there's Vista print and all this crap.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you you guys are different from what I've seen.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell our audience what makes postcard mania different and and how you've been able to put a digital spin on direct mail?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, because there's a postcard marketing company or a postcard printing company or a printer on every virtual corner in every corner, we really had to figure out how to differentiate ourselves.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: And uh what we decided to do is create a product that allows a small business owner to have one um multi-channel coordinated effort from one buying it from one place so that everyone's on the same page.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: So basically, what we've done is we've taken a direct mail postcard and we've added a handful of additional components, and and I'll be more specific.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, when you send out a postcard, a traditional direct mail postcard, you don't know exactly when that postcard is going to hit mailboxes.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe you see a spike in website visitors, maybe the phone rings a little bit more, and you think to yourself, okay, great, the postcards must have hit.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: What we do is we add a mail tracking code to each postcard.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: That way, as the small business owner or the realtor, you can log into a portal and see exactly what the predicted delivery date of that postcard is, and you can see the confirmed delivery date.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: And this is from the USPS, the United States Postal Service.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: Every point in the in the in the every point in the delivery of that piece of mail throughout the postal system, there are places where it gets scanned.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: And the very last scan is the day that it gets into the mail carrier's bag.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the day that your postcards are being delivered.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: And you can see that simply in the portal with a date.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: The next component we add is a call tracking phone number.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just a phone number that rings wherever you want to have it ring.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_04: However, before it's you pick it up, it is recorded in the cloud.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Calls you can log into the portal and you can see how many phone calls you got and you can listen to those phone calls.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: So if somebody calls you and it's after hours or you're busy and you don't pick up the phone, it's recorded.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: That phone number is saved right there, so you can always call the person back, even if they didn't leave you a message, you'll see that phone number.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: So you don't lose any leads that way.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: The next thing is you know what, when somebody gets a postcard and they're interested in what's on the postcard, so let's say you're you know promoting a particular property, if you're interested in it, you're gonna go online and you're gonna try to find everything there is about that property.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: So if they if you have a good URL there and they're and you're gonna give them all the details at that URL so that they don't go somewhere else looking for the data, when they go there, what we'll do is we we cookie them.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: Now, even before we do that, we set up Facebook ads that match the design of the postcard, and we upload the mailing list to Facebook.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're mailing to consumers, we can get between a 50 and 90 percent match rate.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the people custom audience?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so the people who receive those um postcards have already started seeing ads in their Facebook feed.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: So they're seeing those ads on Instagram and Facebook.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: Then they receive the postcard in the mail.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: So now they've gotten that like, oh, I saw this already.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: Because you know on Facebook it's people are scrolling.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're not like going, hey, I think I want to buy that property.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, they're scrolling at hyper speed.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: Hyper speed.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you know, so now at least they there's been some impression on their mind with those ads on the in their Instagram feed and their Facebook feed.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: Now they receive the postcard, and if they're interested, now they'll go to your site, they'll get cookied there, and they'll start seeing ads all over the Google network.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: So anywhere they're going online to any website that's in the Google network, they'll start seeing ads.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: So you're getting that like multiple impressions from both from all three of those platforms Facebook, Google, and Instagram.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, as marketers, we know that it's really you have to bang somebody over the head with your marketing message.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, over and over.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: And the postcard really adds that credibility because you're, you know, when people receive a postcard, they have to go to their mailbox and decide when they're gonna look at their mail.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: So you really have mo the most of their attention from a postcard as opposed to a pop-up or an email or you know, an unsolicited email, I should say.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, so you really get most of their attention on that on that postcard.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if they recognize the design, they recognize a logo, they recognize a face that they've seen recently.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: So see that this is this is where I think direct mail can be so powerful.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and I did one of our recent episodes, episode 65, was was kind of talking about this how how a Facebook ad and a and Google ad retargeting and a postcard and a door hanger and a phone call, all of that works together.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so how the fact that you guys, as what we on the outside would see as just a direct mail company, recognize that, hey, the postcard's gonna be more effective if they've if they've seen you through Google Ads, they've seen you through Facebook ads, then they get the postcard.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I love that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So how how did you arrive at that, at doing that?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that you that you just kind of had a hunch that would work, or or were you just testing things, or how did you guys arrive at at adding that into your platform?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, basically, we were doing, you know, we heavily market our own company, you know, so we were already doing it not with Facebook and Instagram, but in 2013 we were doing it with Google and um you know, with the call tracking and the mail tracking, because we're doing it with our own marketing.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: And when what when we implemented it for ourselves, we saw such a huge increase in response that we realized we had to figure out how to roll this out for our customers.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, awesome.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um like my gears are turning here, thinking of how I can use this in my business as well.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously as a real estate agent, yes, but um in with my business with real estate marketing and helping agents and loan officers with their marketing, um, I'm thinking of ways to do this too.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been, and I've talked to the audience about this, I've been exploring Google ads for retargeting in addition to the Facebook ads I do.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because everyone knows I'm the Facebook ads guy, I'm I'm the Facebook ads coach, but I'm using Google ads to retarget people who have visited my website, people who have gone to my YouTube channel, whatever.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so that everywhere they go online, they see you.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and so so your your Google ads are those your Google and Facebook ads, did you say those start before the postcards received?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um we don't, we can start the Google Ads before.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: We don't generally, we just do the retargeting with them.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: If if somebody wants to do a geographic instead of retargeting, if they want us to hit everybody in a geographic area, we can start ahead of time.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um but we really feel that the ideal sort of combination is for them to see it in their feed while they're scrolling and then um retarget with Google rather than hit them with Google ahead of time.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: If it we do we certain industries, you have to do that, you cannot retarget.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: So we have that set up.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like if somebody wanted to do it that way, they could.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_04: They would just have to ask for our medical edition because for because of HIPAA, you can't retarget.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was going to ask where where can you not retarget, but that makes sense.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's on medical.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: So um, so they would have to specifically ask for that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: But the reason I don't recommend it is because if you are only retargeting, you're gonna those people that were already interested are gonna see massive amounts of ads.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're just gonna see it everywhere.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: And we call the product everywhere small business, and they really are gonna see it so often.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: But if you're targeting an entire area, then you're hitting so many more individual people geographically that you're not gonna get as many impressions per person.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So what is that program that you that you have called?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Everywhere Small Business.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if if an agent, they're like, you know what, this sounds good.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to I want to get started with this, but I don't know how to do my Facebook Pixel.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to do a Google tag and retargeting.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: You guys handle all that?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: They just we do everything.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you you would have no idea like how we have the most old school clients.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: We so we do everything.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's really we make it so simple so super simple for you.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you really do not need to understand how to do anything.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and as agents, and I think this is true with any entrepreneur, we're wearing so many hats.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know this from the early days of your company.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're wearing all the hats.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not only do we have to be great real estate agents and schedule showings and go show homes and take listing presentations, but we also have to market the business to get new customers in the door.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and so taking on all that new stuff for most people is very overwhelming.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's really intriguing to me, Joy, that you guys are like the one-stop shop to just do it all.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um Exactly.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: And and we do have a lot of successful real estate campaigns that my um my marketing consultants would be happy to share with any of your listeners, like so they don't have to reinvent the wheel.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_04: We we we know what specials they should have, what what offers they should have on the card to get somebody's attention.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: And we have all of that stuff wired.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: We have somebody here called that we call the results manager, and basically our results manager just tabulates all the data from all the different campaigns and and you know, catalogs it by industry so that we can share that data so that because the number one thing people hate about marketing is no results.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's sort of like a sh a crapshoot, you know.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, oh, I'm about to spend all this money on a marketing campaign, and they sort of hold their breath and write the check or run the credit card and cross their fingers, and we want to take as much of the mystery out of that process.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: We want to get our our clients really as educated as possible, which is why I love doing podcasts, because I feel like the more educated a business owner is, the better their ability to make the correct spending decision on their marketing.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is super valuable to add perspective too, because Joy, total transparency here.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've been very critical of direct mail in the past, but only in the context of just doing it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if all you're doing is printing a bunch of letters and stuffing envelopes, you know, you have a colored envelope and you handwrite the thing on there, you know, so it looks personal and you do all that stuff, it's still a really crappy response rate, really crappy return on investment.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I see people only do that as their strategy.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Direct mail, especially postcards and when it's well done, it fits with the overall strategy.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: It complements your online stuff, it complements your social media stuff.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where it actually enhances your online stuff.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it makes it more effective.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you can you talk a little bit more about that?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of data are you seeing that that speaks to that?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so we have, let me see if I have any in front of me here.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: We as I said, we have a results manager, so we have the the stats or the the data, you know, from anyone who is willing to share with us.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um so you can see like, let me just see if this is one with all the ads.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I love the title results manager.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, well, that's the whole the whole point, right?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Yeah, yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it that's a very important position, I I imagine.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's funny.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Jessica didn't give me any any that used everywhere small business in my results.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe she did.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let me just look.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: I know I'm trying, you know, it's like I don't know them off the top of my head, but um just just to say that we do have people that do postcards, and I don't know if they're doing Facebook on their own, you know, outside of us.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Perhaps they are, but we do actually get people who get good results using direct mail and not using the the the everywhere small business add-on.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: I personally would never spend my money on direct mail without adding on the additional uh components because you're getting it so even like if you could get a good result without it, imagine what you could do with it.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you're just getting so many hits.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I have I have a bunch of case studies here, but they're not necessarily letting me know on the data sheet whether or not they did everywhere small business or not.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: But like here's a a card that somebody mailed to the same list twice.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: They only mailed to 995 records, and these were people's people whose properties were or ranches had been on the market for a while.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: And all I have is their what their ROI was 14, 1,485%, meaning they made$45,000 in revenue from the campaign.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: They got three to five good responses from the second mailing, and the cost of the campaign was about$3,000.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um geez, it's a hell of an ROI.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and there's about I have a whole I have a stack of them here, but I was trying to see if any of them had the specific data, like how many um how many impressions there were on Facebook versus Google, but I I don't have that in front of me.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I do I can get that for you if you want it for the show notes.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: I well, yeah, that'd be helpful.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you could if you could send that over, I can include it on the show notes, which you can always find at MassiveAgent Podcast.com.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I guess I'm I'm more interested on on higher level stuff, like, you know, and this is what what we did episode 65 on, but we're diving a little deeper on this specific topic right now.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: When it think about this, guys, it's common sense.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: If if you get a postcard and it's very well done, but you'd have no idea, like you've never seen the logo, you've never seen the brand, you'd have no idea who that company is, is that more likely to keep your attention and keep you interested?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Versus if you've seen a Facebook ad, you've seen you watch somebody on Instagram, you've seen a YouTube video, you've seen your logo or their logo on a banner in the outfield at the high school baseball game, you know, like if if you have brand recognition and then all of a sudden you get a postcard in the mail, are you more or less likely to pay attention?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Of course you're gonna pay more attention if you have brand recognition.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just it everything works together.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It all works together.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you, the founder of Postcard Mania, said that you would never spend your own money on direct mail without all the other all the other stuff working in tandem with it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's very telling because that's been my experience too.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just doing postcards and that's your strategy, maybe you get a client, you know, but it's nothing like if if you build brand recognition all over the place.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: We're just we're right on the same page.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Love it, love it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and you guys are the first company I've really seen that's done that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: So um I love to hear that too, Dustin.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think where you'll find we're probably the only company.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I believe you.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm and in fairness, it's not like I've done a ton of research into direct mail printing companies.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But when when I came across you guys, I was like, wait a minute.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: First off, uh all the colorful stuff, like it looks very, very well done.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that got my attention.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, this looks like a really legit company.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, wait a minute, they do this thing and then it's trackable, and then wait, they do Facebook ads and Google ads.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and so yeah, I've never seen anything else like that.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why this is where direct mail works, guys.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're doing the Facebook ads and you're only doing Facebook ads, you're leaving money on the table by not having something show up in the mailbox.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's just one touch after another in as many different ways as you can think of.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what these guys do.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um let I know you guys have specific designs and and specific programs for real estate professionals, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about those?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's working for for real estate pros?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, what do you guys do specifically for real estate agents that you don't do for others?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's walk through that a little bit.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let me see.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, it's really gonna come down to who you're going to be sending your card to, and that's where the differentiator comes in for real estate.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: You want to be able to target, um, depending on, like if you're farming, let's say, um, you want to get people who have been in their house a certain amount of years because you don't want to why would you hit somebody, why would you look for a listing and waste that postcard and that postage on a somebody who just moved into the house within that year?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_05: Right?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really a matter of of who you choose to um to mail to.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: And and I have found that all the realtors, you know, that we deal with, they all have a certain, like they're they're they're going after different people.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_04: You have to ask them like who is your ideal customer?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: Are you are you farming for listings?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: Are you farming for are you looking for buyers?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: What are you looking to do?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_04: So once we understand exactly what they're going after, then we can sort of advise them on what kind of data to get.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes sense.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to always begin with the end in mind, begin with the with your objective in mind.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad you mentioned that, yes.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um You know, for instance, for like for mortgage, I mean, don't you want to, you know, get people who you want to mail to people that have equity?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: So wouldn't you like to be able to buy data and know that they have a certain amount of equity before you do your mailing?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys provide any any lists or anything like that?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or or do your customers have to bring that with them?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no, no, no, no.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: We we provide the data.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: We can get all that good real estate data.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And is that included in your every everywhere?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Every small business?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's part of, you know, when when we're putting together a direct mail campaign, it's even though it's a a done for you sort of packaged thing, everybody's campaign is different.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: We'll have some realtors that bring their own data, we or we provide the data.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um this we so so it's whether or not they need it or not.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's like an ad, it's like a menu item, it's like an add-on.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so it's yeah.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I know a lot of people, a lot of people get stuck when they're like, okay, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna market to this group.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how do I find that group?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I see it with I mean, with Facebook ads and stuff, it's easy.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just choose the audience.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if you want to target specific people in certain geographical areas that meet certain requirements, like how long they've been in their home, uh possible equity they have, like, you know, uh life events, stuff like that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you should probably get it from a big data company because as we all know, they know basically everything.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: Everything.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: Everything.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: Let me ask you a question, Dustin.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, have you ever heard of a company on their fairly new uh tech company called Remine?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, because they're they have they have awesome data.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: They have really great data.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they do they do some interesting stuff.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've looked at them on a local level because our MLS here in Salt Lake has some partnership with them where they will provide a bunch of that data into the homes that are on the market or the homes that will soon be coming on the market.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of it's predictive analytics, some of it is, I'm sure, a lot creepier than that, which as marketers is fantastic.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: As a consumer, it sucks.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's mostly predictive analytics because um we we actually have like if you deploy a direct mail campaign from Remine, it's actually we're doing the work.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so I have a uh understanding of their data, but I I'm very impressed with the data that they have.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I know for realtors, they have different levels of of subscription.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep, I've looked at that too.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're if you're really focused on a farm area, yeah, remine from what I've seen is a great place to get data from.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's interesting that you've kind of that you kind of feel the same way and and you use them for some of your data.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so we we yes, we have a and we have a couple of different relationships with them.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: We get data from them, um, and also uh we deploy their direct mail.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you upload data or choose the data that you want on their site, then there'll be an option to deploy a direct mail campaign.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: And that's it looks just like you're on their site, but you're actually dealing with us.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's talk about the content of what's on the postcards for a minute.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So for real estate agents, for loan officers who are looking for potential buyers or sellers, what what's some of the messaging that you're aware of that is working and some of the messaging that isn't working on on these campaigns?
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's so all over the map.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we do have, and I kind of want to bring up, let me see if I can move this Zoom thing out of the way so I can bring up um some of the stuff.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: I I just don't feel like I have what I wish I had in front of me.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm putting you on the spot.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, that's okay.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_04: I just know that we have I have a list somewhere of all the data that is like ideal in terms of like what should go on a um uh a realtor card.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like on a just listed card, you definitely want to show your properties.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_04: If you have just one property, you know, um, just have that property on there.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um really, if you could say something like, I'll sell your home in 60 days or less guaranteed, or I'll give you$500, if you can do something like that, you're gonna get a lot of attention.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I'm looking at a card where they have three homes, and one says sold in three days, then the other one says sold in ten days, and the other one says sold in 22 days, and that was their message, and it was a personalized direct mail piece, so it had the the homeowner's first name, like you know, Dustin, I'll sell your home in 60 days or less guaranteed, or I'll give you$500.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and basically they mailed 2,000 postcards every two to four weeks and hit every record nine times.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so they mailed a total of 18,000 pieces.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_04: And they went to homes of a certain value that had been owned seven plus years.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: See, they had that basically like that, you know, predictive data.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: And um and I only have uh what I have from him, what did he say?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: He said, even though I started this farm area this year, my ROI is still 350%.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: Sanders said next year will undoubtedly be even better, ten times with the price range I mailed to.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, so he was quite happy with whatever happened there.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's interesting is you said, so how how often did they send they send it?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: They mailed 2,000 postcards every two to four weeks.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Every two to four weeks.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_04: And they just hit the same 2,000 records over and over and over again, nine times.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nine times, yes.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what's important is it just doing it once isn't gonna do anything.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it most because look, I've done letters, I've done mailers before, and I I because the company, the vendor that I was using for these letters had pitched it as, you know, they're they're worded so perfectly that no one can resist responding, right?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I I'd send them out expecting that I'd get instant response from one letter or from two letters, right?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: But these people sent it repeatedly nine times and they're gonna continue doing it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And as he said, the ROI is gonna be even better next year.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: It it's the repetitiveness, it's the consistency that's what makes all of this work.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: All marketing everywhere.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly, exactly.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, as another example, here's one where a realtor is um, you know, positioning herself.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: She's got herself on the front of the card, she's showing a gorgeous listing, a beautiful home.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: She says, I listed, and she puts the address there, um, September 12, 2014, and it's under contract September 23rd, 2014.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: So she's showing one house, so she's basically promoting herself, saying, Look, I got this product.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_04: You know, look at and and that's what people like.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_04: They like to see actual, real, specific information on a postcard instead of just a general message of hi, look at me, I should be your realtor, and here's you know why.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: They like to see specific things like that.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like on the other one, they should have three listings, all specific listings and when they sold.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: And on this one, she's giving an address when she took the listing, when it went under contract.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna get a better response that way.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you mentioned that.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm over here just nodding because you're so right.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I get look, I get postcards like this too.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I get mailers from realtors too, because they just blast uh a geographic area.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the stuff I always pay attention because I'm a I'm a marketer, I pay attention to the ones that have a specific message, or if it mentions the street that I'm on or the subdivision that I live in.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And but every once in a while, well, I'd say most of the time, actually, most of the time, Joy, I get pure garbage in the mail.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a it's a team that's like, hey, we sell homes in Salt Lake City.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you're thinking of selling your home in Salt Lake City, call us because we've sold many homes.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's basically the freaking message.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's garbage.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: But but then when something is specific or highly targeted or highly relevant to me in my my street, my subdivision, my town, whatever, I pay more attention to it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yes, I and it's cool that you guys, when you send out so many postcards and have so much data that you're seeing the same thing.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: We're seeing the exact we're we that's that's what's so great about having a results manager because we get to catalog all this data and go, this always works, this never works, you know.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I kind of wish I had that stuff in front of me.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why it wasn't provided to me, but um, but I again I can give you, I can I can give you a PDF or something for your show notes if you like.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I'm gonna do too, so anyone who wants to learn more about Joy and Postcard Mania and the programs they have for agents and loan officers, just go to MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash postcard mania.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Massive Agent Podcast.com slash postcard mania, and that will get you right to the right company, right to the page that you want to see with all the info that's relevant.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're looking for show notes, MassiveAgent Podcast.com and look for this episode, episode number 70.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um Joy, so I'm I'm curious too, since since you've since founding the company back in 98, 98, right?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not 99?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: Right, 98.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, 99 was our first full year, but June 98 was what my little epiphany.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you you've obviously grown so much as a person, as a as a business person, as an entrepreneur.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: What what kind of advice would you give for a solo real estate agent, a solo loan officer or mortgage broker who's trying, like they're kind of at that point where they're really busy, but they in order to really do more business, they have to grow, they have to leverage other people.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of advice would you give them?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I you know, this is probably the number one thing that I'm asked, especially living in a small town like Clearwater where I know everybody, you know, and and these people knew me when I was, you know, driving my Chevy Barretto with the with the with the uh recalled paint job.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um Did you grow up there?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: No, I grew up in New York actually, but I've lived here most of my adult life.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: I moved here when I was 24 and I'm 54.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: So kids were born here, yeah.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_04: So um honestly, I would say that you have to be willing to turn over hats.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be willing to and and you have to be willing to share the rewards.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I think my most successful action in being able to scale my company was that I found like my right arm person, and I kept telling that person, like, you're with me here, I can only pay you this much now, but as we grow, you will grow, and I will always take really good care of you.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I always did.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: And to this day that she's my president now, she started with me when she was 19 years old, and she had her 40th birthday in November, and now she's the president of Postcard Mania.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I have yeah, so it's really getting that person and taking really good care of them so that they can reap the rewards of your success, and they don't take what you teach them and go bring it somewhere else where somebody's gonna pay them more money.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's really having really good people that want, that see your vision, trust you because you're because you give back to them.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say that's the hardest thing for me to teach um entrepreneurs, and a lot of them have a lot of stories about I taught this person everything they know, and now they're they left me and I have to start over again, you know.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, that also could mean that they did a good job in you know, in raising them up if if they're to the point where they could do it themselves, like you know, cool.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_04: And in your industry, I can see, you know, yes, eventually happens all the time.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people go out on their own, they leave a team.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was with the team my first two years, and then I went out on my own.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it happens all the time in our industry.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but if you need, but I'm talking about the back end of your business.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, putting a business there is, you know, you could have somebody.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: I I would recommend that they hire someone who doesn't have aspirations to necessarily be the realtor.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: Hire somebody that enjoys the administrative side of it, keeping everything in order, you know, um responding to everybody right away, making sure those appointments are made so that the realtor can do what the realtor does best and not have to do all the little details.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: And if you take care of that person, then you'll really be able to build an organization.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really interesting that you said you started as a graphic designer and and then grew into the CEO of Postcard Mania.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, very cool story.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Joy, um, I I know we're running up on the the top of the hour, and I want to be respectful of your time.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we do have a couple more minutes, so I'd like to with every guest, we always do these rapid fire questions, kind of some some fun either-or questions to get to know you a little bit better.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, and I'll give you a heads up now.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask you for the best and the worst piece of advice you've ever received, and that could mean whatever you want it to mean.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: It could mean in business and life, whatever.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's do it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Facebook or Instagram?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_04: Facebook.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram or Snapchat?
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: Instagram.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever been on Snapchat or do you ever use it?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because I I do have a a 28-year-old and a 26-year-old.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't use Snapchat that much, but I am snapped.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm often snapped by Snapworthy.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, snapworthy.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_04: My children snap me, yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nice books or podcasts?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's a tough one.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'd have to say 50-50.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: iPhone or Android?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: iPhone.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very nice.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Correct answer.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Alexa or Google Home?
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: Neither.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: Never.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't want to be spied on.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you carry your iPhone.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: I do carry my iPhone, but I'm not sure.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I get it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's not, it just doesn't seem as bad.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's a totally separate company, too.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, Apple already has all my shit.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want Amazon to have all of it too.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I know, but plus, you know, if when I'm when I have my phone, right?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_04: I have my phone, I'm talking to you right now, but I don't feel like I necessarily have my phone when I'm having like intimate conversations with my husband.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's not necessarily near me and listening.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I get it.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so many people who don't use Alexa or Google Home, that's the reason.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a privacy thing.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: That is why.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: But I do have a smartphone, I have a smart home, but I just don't use that.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_04: I just use it, I just can do I can I can control my home from my phone, but nice, yeah.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Burgers or pizza?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: I wish I could I wish the answer was pizza, but I'm gluten-free.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it has to be burgers.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had where where's the best gluten-free pizza that you've you found?
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: That I've ever had.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: There's a place called Spock Anopoly in um Chicago.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in the uh in a neighborhood of Chicago.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: And by far that's the best gluten-free pizza.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gl are you gluten-free?
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I've I've done it just as a as a diet temporarily, and and but every once in a while I get a gluten-free pizza.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've had some really good ones.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, really?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: Where tell me.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's see, there's a place here called um the pie in Salt Lake City.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Pi.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: They have a really good one.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um Papa Murphy's has really good gluten-free crust.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: Where's Papa Murphy's?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Papa Murphy's is a take and bake pizza place.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, really?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they have a really good one too.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_04: There was one around here.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'd be really surprised if they didn't have Papa Murphy's down there, so check that out.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: Check it out.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: New York or LA?
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: New York a thousand percent.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did you live in the city?
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Whereabouts?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love New York.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's my favorite.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_04: Is it?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_04: I I lived on 13th in university.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that in Manhattan?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love the city, I just don't know the streets.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: Ah, okay, yeah.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where I lived.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_04: Was that it's the kind of the east village?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, okay, cool.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: But not super east.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing how diverse just Manhattan is.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely crazy.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these diverse neighborhoods.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a cool city.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: I have a good real estate story, um, a New York City real estate story.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: A girl that I've been friends with for over 30 years.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I got my real estate license in Manhattan with her when before I moved to Clearwater.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I was in my early 20s.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: I really wanted to get into real estate.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't do anything with it.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: But she um worked for Donald Trump for 27 years at his residential real estate office on Central Park South.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I have all kinds of good stories.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: I bet.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's cool.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: I actually know an agent who works for uh yeah, Trump still has a brokerage.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: He does.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's on it's on Central Park South.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but but this guy, he's not in New York, which is interesting.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_04: Huh.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he works for uh maybe it's at one of his uh his properties that sells condos or something.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh maybe, yeah.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: That could be interesting.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I already know the answer, but mountains or well, city or city or country.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you're killing me here.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I have to lose.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um I probably will say city just because I visit cities a lot more than I visit the country, but boy, when I get in the country, I I the answer's country.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm in Wow, okay.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: That that surprised me a bit.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought you'd be at City all the way.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: I you know, the peacefulness, like I was just looking on VRBO.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think I'm gonna go to um uh somewhere in Colorado for just like for a long weekend, you know, in one of these cliff houses or something, just to space.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: Have you been to Salt Lake or Park City?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: No, I have never been to Utah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: You need to scratch Colorado off the list.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: Come to Park City.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'm writing it down right now.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_04: Park City, Utah.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: You'd love you'd love Park City, especially spring and early summer.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, cool.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you you'd love it.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, mountains or beach.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_04: Again, it's really, really hard.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: I love the mountains, but I live by the beach, so I'm kind of you know, I'm kind of like jaded by the beach.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: I've been here for you know 30 plus years, or just 30 years.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: The number one beach, not just any beach.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_04: Not any, not just any beach, but the number one beach in the country, clear water beach.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it's a tough one.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Podcasting or vlogs?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: Podcasting.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube or IGTV?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_04: YouTube.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube or Facebook Live.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: YouTube.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: And do you do you like books or audiobooks?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: I prefer books, but I but I for convenience I like audiobooks.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think like most people, we we do both.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we we like to read a physical book every once in a while, but then if we're driving or you know, exercising or whatever, we we turn on audible.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uber or Lyft?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uber.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Gary V or Grant Cardone.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: Grant Cardone.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: Gary V just drives me a little crazy.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like turn it off.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't imagine being his wife.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I completely get it.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, though, that's exactly how I feel about Grant Cardone.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like Gary V doesn't bug me, but I totally understand how he he does bug some people.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't handle Grant Cardone.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_04: That's hilarious.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very interesting.
• 59:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: So what what's your favorite app right now?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh God.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so let me I have to look at my phone.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_04: I think my favorite app that I'm using like the most is, I mean, if I'm looking at it, if you're talking about like apps on my phone, is that all you mean?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: Or do you mean like different apps?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, and any, whatever that means to you.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just what what one app do you think people absolutely need to check out?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_04: Amazon.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: We'll allow it, yes, because I I completely agree.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_04: The app that I look at my on my phone the most is my sleep IQ, which um I have a sleep member bed, and so every day I look at my sleep IQ to see if I had a good night's sleep.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, nice, nice.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've heard about that.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is that would you recommend that?
• 1:00:21
  unknown: The bed?
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like I'm addicted.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm addicted.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have one of those tufted needles, but it's not a smart bed.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I am in love with my smart bed.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm trying to like looking at my app.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's so many, everything is an app now, you know.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, what do I use the most?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: I probably use my own internal company software more than anything else.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um we do love Basecamp over here at Postcard Mania, though.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_04: Basecamp is really awesome.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's that's kind of like uh Slack-ish.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, see, and I'm not familiar with Slack.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's just project management.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_04: So if you have like a million things that you're working on and you can't keep them straight in your head, Basecamp is a dream.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Basecamp, I think, is kind of like a mix between Trello and Slack.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because there's there's an internal communication platform involved in Basecamp too, right?
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because it will send you a notification in your email that when you get it, you you know, click on the link and you're back in Basecamp.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_04: But what's really great about Basecamp is that um over email, um, for instance, is that all of the documents, all of the data, everything that you're talking about on a particular subject is all in one thread.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_04: So you can reorient yourself to what's going on like really easily and see all the documents and when they came into play.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: So it's really it's quite awesome.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's an alternative that um, yeah, I haven't heard Basecamp talked a lot about, but that that'd be a good one.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: What's the other one?
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_04: You think Slack is similar?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_04: I've never heard of Slack.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Slack's just for like internal communications uh amongst teams, and you can you know put attachments in there and and and stuff like that.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's like it's like a giant uh group chat with a bunch of bells and whistles.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: Trello is more like um you know task management where you can have different boards and like it's like a digital post-it note board.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: And people can collaborate and add to it and stuff like that.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: So you know what?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think my I think my programming team uses Trello.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: That wouldn't surprise me.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm pretty sure they use Trello, and because it is it's just like an ongoing joke that we will base camp our VP platform development.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: We'll we'll base camp him, and then he has to add it to Trello because he doesn't use it.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yes.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many, there's so many freaking solutions now.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when I asked you about the app, I'm curious.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Postcard Mania, is it for your customers?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I wanted to do a campaign, do you guys have any app, or is it all just cloud-based?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, I mean, it's basically you have um you we have something called my postcard mania, and you can log into my postcard mania um and watch your campaign, like where it's at in real time, and anything that we need from you, you can deliver to us in my postcard mania, and that's where your dashboard lives, so that you can see your results.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, it's it's really it's really great, actually.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's really intuitive and it really keeps the um like any like we have a lot of clients that want to talk to their um account manager, but then we also have a lot of clients that really don't want to talk to anybody.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: They just want to like be able to do everything online, they want to review their proof, they want to answer, you know, that it there's so many variables in mailing that you have to fill out, you have to answer a bunch of questions to make sure that we mail your your cards on the right date so that they make a certain hit date.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_04: There's just a lot of variables, there's three different types of postage and and and uh you know, do you want to go first class or or standard rate or EDDM?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's so many different things.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: You can do it all on my postcard mania, or you can do it with uh an account manager.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_04: So we have it both ways.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, awesome.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, guys, uh, if you want to learn more about postcard mania, just go to massive agentpodcast.com slash postcard mania and find out if this is a good solution for you.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like this is a great solution for most agents and most loan officers because it does so much of the stuff that you need to do, but it does it for you.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's great.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_04: Dustin, I have some special offers for your listeners.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, sweet.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't want to drive them, I don't want to take them away from going to your site, but I have certain like landing stuff.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_04: Is that okay?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I can redirect that link anywhere.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, cool.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_04: So if they want to talk to um, if they're listening to this right now and they want to talk to a marketing consultant right now, they I have a call tracking phone number.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_04: Can I give them that?
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's 855-980-5492.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's 855-980-5492.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: I also have up to 25% off any six-month campaign.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know what?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_04: Why don't we change that to um anyone who uses everywhere small business in their campaign, we'll give up to 25% off too.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_04: So they can go they can go to postcardmania.com slash massive agent.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_04: I also have a I wrote a book.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Postcard Marketing in an online world.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_04: Success Simplified.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_04: And if they would like to read that book, they can go to postcardmania.comslash podcast and download it.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_04: And let's see, is there something else here?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_04: So what she's saying is that all of the stats and everything, um, if they want a clickable PD.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: PDF, I can give that to them at postcardmania.com slash stats.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that the link I've been giving out, Massive Agent Podcast.com slash postcardmania.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you guys have a specific page you want that directed to, let me know.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm gonna get Jess on that with you.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and then and then to get the deal that you talked about, the 25% off, that's postcardmania.com slash massive agent.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you doing that for the audience.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm gonna check that out myself because that's uh yeah.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: So Joy, where can they find you outside of those links to your your product and your service?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: How can they find out more about you?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where do they follow you on social media?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um on social media, I mean, Postcard Mania has a Instagram, it has a Facebook.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just me, uh Joy Genduza.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_04: Joy actually I think on Facebook, Facebook I'm Joy Liebowitz Genduza.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um and you know, I'm just I I don't really, I'm not like a big like online person.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't do social music personally.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I'm on Facebook and you'll see like I'll post things here and there, but like I'm not like I'm not like crazy doing you know personally.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're not doing Instagram stories all day long.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, I'm not.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_04: But they can go to postcardmedia.com.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's everything you could ever want to know about marketing at postcardmedia.com.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_04: We probably have over 5,000 readable pages on that site.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's so much marketing education.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_04: There's case studies for their industry, for realtors, for real estate investors, for mortgage brokers.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of really good information at postcardmania.com, too.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, I know at the beginning I believe I said postcards mania.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: My audience knows that I'm ridiculous with remembering shit.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: So no, it's postcard mania.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not plural.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: Postcard mania.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: Joy, thank you so much.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you being a guest on the Massive Agent Podcast.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really good stuff, really helpful, and and I had fun.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't thank you.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_04: I thank you.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to you soon.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: All right, bye-bye.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was such a fun interview.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, guys, if you want to get that deal, the 25% off of the the real estate, um, the real estate deal that Joy mentioned for when I say real estate deal, for real estate agents and loan officers specifically that that does the Facebook ads, it does the Google ads, it does all the stuff for you, just go to postcardmania.com slash massive agent, and they will hook you up.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: Great company.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Those guys are incredible.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to apologize as well.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know I've I've spoken to a bunch of you who um, as you know, I've been using WiseAgent um since around the beginning of the year for my CRM.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: I and I'm a huge fan of Wise Agent, and I told you guys um over a month ago, I think it was now, that if I gave you a link to to Wise Agent to get a 30-day trial, and if you did, then you'd get access to my uh my drip campaigns and all the personal custom drip campaigns that I have.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have not done that yet.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: I apologize.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing more than me just having so much shit on my plate and launching a new show, by the way.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even mention this at the beginning.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: So tomorrow, so I'm gonna get those uh those drip campaigns, I have not forgotten about you, they will be available soon, and then I will let everyone know.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll post about it in the SnapPack group, I'll post about it, I'll let everyone know that the drip campaigns are available.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if you too want access to my drip campaigns and a 30-day free trial of WiseAgent, which is my preferred CRM, because they are an amazing value.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: They have so much functionality.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can find a better CRM.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: Go to MassivAgent Podcast.com/slash wise agent, get a 30-day free trial, and my drip campaigns will be available here the next week or so, hopefully sooner.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being patient, guys.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you understand.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing more than me just being overwhelmed by all the projects I'm working on.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of those projects comes out tomorrow.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So Friday at noon mountain time, 2 p.m.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Eastern.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: That would be 11 a.m.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Pacific time.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: My new show called Industry Connected launches.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a Facebook live show.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It will be live on the Industry Syndicate Facebook page.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: After the live video, if you're not able to catch it live, then it will be on YouTube and it will be a podcast as well.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Industry Connected.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole show is connecting real estate agents for that whole side of the real estate industry and mortgage loan officers and mortgage brokers.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Mortgage and agents connecting the two sides, executives from both sides, agents, loan officers, everyone.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: We need to start working together, guys.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm amazed at how many agents, loan officers, mortgage brokers, executives, and vendors even have their heads so far up their ass, they don't have no idea what's about to happen.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: All Amazon has to, all we have to do tomorrow is wake up and hear Amazon bought Redfin and it's game over.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or Zillow, then all the news about Zillow home loans that's that's going on with Zillow is now just responding to everyone's leads, uh, lender leads, and then they give you the sloppy seconds, even though you're paying them for those leads, they are responding now that they are a lender.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so much shit happening.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's economic issues, there's so much stuff happening.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: We as an industry right now have to band together, start working together, start collaborating more.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it's not to protect ourselves and protect our livelihood, just to have a more efficient, more productive, more fruitful relationship between an agent and a lender, we have to start communicating and doing more stuff together and in synergistic ways.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what this show is all about.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I see this huge opportunity to bring the industry together as a call to arms, both to protect our livelihood, protect us from disruption, and just to have a better relationship between agent and lender.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I see a huge opportunity to do that, and this show is my way of doing that.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Industry Connected.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Look for it tomorrow at 2 p.m.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Eastern on the Industry Syndicate Facebook page.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I will be uh promoting the hell out of it this week, and that will be the first episode we'll be doing every Friday.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have a new episode, and so it will be a Facebook live show that turns into a YouTube video and a podcast.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So join me for Industry Connected.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_00: It it's for everyone: agents, loan officers, mortgage executives, brokerage executives, mortgage brokers, everybody, vendors within the industry.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: This show is for you.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel like you have some value to give to the industry and you feel like you would be a good guest, I will interview you on the show.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as it brings value to the agent and lender relationship and to the industry and helps us protect ourselves from an insane amount of disruption.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you feel like you're a good fit for the show, let us know, and we'd be happy to feature you on the show.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, guys.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to the Massive Agent Podcast.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, um check out our website, Massive Agent Podcast.com, our resources page, our show notes, uh, all the all the resources we have for agents and loan officers are found at MassiveAent Podcast.com.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then make sure to check Massive Agent Society.com to see if your market is still available to join as a member of the Massive Agent Society, Massive Agent Society.com.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, thank you so much.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great weekend.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And real quick, the legalese, the to make the lawyers happy, some of the links mentioned in this episode may be affiliate links, which means that if you chose to make a purchase, I would earn a small commission at no additional cost to you.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_00: It does not influence my opinion one way or another, but it by doing these affiliate relationships, it helps us reinvest back into making the podcast and the show better.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have experience with all of this stuff, guys.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I do not ever recommend something, a product, a service, a vendor, whatever that I have not personally used, looked into, researched, that I know the people well.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I stand by everything that we recommend and I feel good about that.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy your weekend, guys.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good one.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.