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The Real Story on Breast Cancer with Dr. Kristi Funk · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• Dr. Kristi Funk: The incidence is going up and up and up with no end in sight. Breast cancer finally surpassed lung to become the number one cancer on planet earth. I remember the surgeon Dr. Taz: telling me, he's like, it's not if you're going to get cancer, it's when he goes, we are seeing so much of it right now. And I just looked at him knowing the work that I do and even the work that you do. Dr. Taz: And I'm like, I'm not buying that. No way. I'm not buying that at all. Dr. Kristi Funk: Let's think about the main contributors. Every teenager needs to know this. Dr. Taz: I want to share a story with you guys about myself. Back in 2022, I was scooting along thinking I was healthy, doing all the right things, trying to follow the right diet, exercise plan, you name it. Dr. Taz: After all, I live and work in this space, right? Well, to my surprise, I wasn't. I found one day in the shower, a breast lump, and what transpired after was horrifying. And I know a lot, and I have a lot of resources. I went to multiple appointments first had, of course, the mammograms, the ultrasounds, then the request for a biopsy, then the request for an MRI, then the request for another biopsy. Dr. Taz: It was. exhausting, but good news. It was all normal, no cancer in sight. And I now have a little tag in this right breast that I get to walk around and carry with me for all the years to come. I did not have breast cancer. My mother did. She had stage zero DCIS. She's actually doing okay as well, but this topic, breast cancer. Dr. Taz: The mortality, the incidents, the increasing risk in younger and younger women continues to be something that patients ask me about every single day. That's why I felt like it was so important to learn as much and understand what we can understand about this diagnosis that continues to plague women today. Dr. Taz: Please help me welcome my next guest. Dr. Christy Funk MD is a double board certified breast cancer surgeon and lifestyle medicine doctor. She's a bestselling author and international speaker. And she graduated from Stanford in 1991. Her medical degree is from UC Davis and she completed her residency in Seattle and a breast cancer fellowship at Cedars Sinai in LA. Dr. Taz: She has excelled in so many different roles, including as a director of the Cedars Sinai Breast Center until 2009, where she also co founded the Pink Lotus Breast center in LA, where she currently practices. She has helped thousands of women navigate breast issues, including celebrities like Angelina Jolie and Sheryl Crow. Dr. Taz: She's the go to expert for good morning America and Dr. Phil's merit street media. And she's been on a host of television shows, including Dr. Oz, the doctors, Rachel Ray, CNN, the view, and more. I couldn't be more honored, more pleased, and honestly, more excited to introduce you all to Dr. Christy Funk. All right, Dr. Dr. Taz: Funk. Thank you for joining me today. I can't wait to get into this conversation. So you live and breathe breast cancer. You've been doing this for a really long period of time. What do you think is going on with breast cancer and women? You know, we have our October every month. We're screaming pink. We are doing the marches and the walks and the mammograms and all the things. Dr. Taz: But when we really kind of dial into the data, we're not really seeing the incidence of breast cancer go down. Now we can talk a little bit about treatment and all that other stuff, but I'm just so curious, you've done this for, we were just talking 23 years, right? What do you think is happening? when it comes to the world of breast cancer. Dr. Taz: I know what's happening. You know, that's why we have you on the show. I love it. All right. Talk to us. Dr. Kristi Funk: What is going on? So let's look at the stats. Okay. Uh, October 1st, 2024, the American Cancer Society just came out with breaking news, new numbers analysis since 1989. What we've been seeing is that the incidence of breast cancer To your point is going up and up and up with no end in sight. Dr. Kristi Funk: It's been going up 1 percent per year Ah, but get this in the last 10 years has been going up a 1. 4 percent per year in women under 50 Oh, I don't like that and 0. 7 percent in those over 50 while the mortality Thankfully has been going down about 1. 3 percent per year owing to earlier detection and better treatments the incidence of Is going up and up and up with no end in sight. Dr. Kristi Funk: If you don't know, in 2020, breast finally surpassed lung to become the number one cancer on planet earth. Oh my goodness. It is a real serious problem. We've got to figure out where this bullet train is headed and to do something about it. It's not only getting higher in numbers, but lower in ages. So, I mean, if we had made a bet back in medical school, In 1992 for me, um, Right Dr. Taz: there with you. Dr. Taz: I think I graduated in Dr. Kristi Funk: 93s. Anyhow, I would have put big money on not necessarily the cure for cancer because I recognize cancer is a very elusive, sinister little thing. However, I would have thought for sure the numbers would be lower. And with all the Dr. Taz: work that everyone is doing or trying to do, I think it's interesting. Dr. Taz: You know, I had a little breast issue. It was about a year or two ago. I found a lump on my own in the shower and, you know, with our schedules, and you're going to get mad at me, please don't get mad at me. But anyhow, with our schedules, I made the first appointment. The second appointment, then they wanted a biopsy, then they wanted an MRI on the, it was like four or five appointments to figure this thing out. Dr. Taz: And with my schedule, it took me six months. It wasn't like I was doing, um, you know, back to back to back. And at the end of it, everything was fine. You know, everything was normal. Everything was okay. I have a little tag, thankfully. But I remember the surgeon telling me, he's like, it's not, if you're going to get cancer. Dr. Taz: It's when he goes, we are seeing so much of it right now. And I just looked at him knowing the work that I do and even the work that you do. And I'm like, I'm not buying that. No way. I'm not buying that at all. But what do you think is happening with women and the increased incidence of breast cancer? Dr. Taz: Where, where can we look? Because right now, the dialogue is all get your mammogram and. You think you're done. That's it. You're doing that mammogram. You're done. Your breast cancer story's over. You check the box, you can move on. But I know I think differently and I know you think differently. So I want you to really reflect on what you think is happening out there with women and why they need to really change that mindset. Dr. Kristi Funk: We, you said the word reflect, we just need to look in the mirror and reflect at our own lives and recognize that you have so much more control over this disease than you probably ever thought or could possibly imagine, but the science and the research can Clearly shows that only 5 to 10 percent of all breast cancer is coming from inherited genetics, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Like BRCA or CHECK2, PALB2, these mutations. Dr. Taz: Wait, let's talk about BRCA for a second. I get this all the time in the exam room, all the time. Well, I don't have BRCA. You know, I know we it's not I'm not BRCA positive. I'm okay What's what's going on there with that conversation? Dr. Kristi Funk: The answer is 95 percent of women with breast cancer do not have BRCA Wow, or any other gene mutation for that matter that they inherited from mom or dad Wow, so 87% of all women with breast cancer do not have a single first degree relative with breast cancer. Dr. Kristi Funk: So even the inherited genetics aside, just sort of that it runs in my family kind of thought is largely false. It's real when it's there. Right. We need to pay attention to this elevated risk status because of something in the water, so to speak, with the family. Right. But the vast, vast majority of cancer patients do not have it run in their family. Dr. Kristi Funk: And it is absolutely not from an inherited gene. And this is fantastic news. Because Dr. Taz: we can do something about it. Because we can do Dr. Kristi Funk: so much about it. Well, what can, where is it coming from? Okay, so it's coming from a number of different avenues. And they're going to bump and collide inside of you in different ways to manipulate the cell microenvironment. Dr. Kristi Funk: The little tiny bathtub that is composed of the fluids and cells that your cells bathe in. And that bathtub is either screaming out pro cancer or anti cancer. And you are choosing, unwittingly or not, every time you lift fork to mouth, every time you think or don't think something, drink or don't drink something, do or don't do something, even forgive and don't forgive someone. Dr. Taz: Oh, I love that you brought that in. I love that Chinese medicine talks about this. They talk about anger and grief living in the liver and then the liver becoming sloppy and sluggish. The liver meridian, guess where it runs through? It runs right through the breast. So anger and forgiveness. Go hand in hand in this conversation. Dr. Taz: I love that you brought that up. It makes me so excited so much to say about that and Dr. Kristi Funk: the science does too now some of these things are Stronger contributors than others and some of them the science has kind of uncovered the why behind it right with more clarity than others but absolutely the the Strategies that you can employ starting today that will radically transform not only that cell microenvironment, that bathtub, that then is pro cancer or anti cancer, but all of the different mechanisms that lead to all of our major killers. Dr. Kristi Funk: We're talking heart disease, stroke, diabetes, Alzheimer's, obesity, and things that don't necessarily kill you, but they kill your joy and your zest for life, like anxiety, depression, irritable bowel, arthritis, And Disorders just inexplicable fatigue and uh, right totally it's so exciting So the main contribute the main contributors to this whole world inside of us That's driving our health destiny on so many different levels have to do with your nutritional choices exercise Obesity, alcohol use, and other toxicities like smoking to a certain extent for women, hormone replacement therapy, and that's a big, contentious, Yes, it's a big thing, and I have, Definite thoughts on that backed by science. Dr. Kristi Funk: Environmental toxicities. We live in a barrage of chemical toxicities that are in the air and in this chair, but also just, you can be wiser about your own choices for things that you're putting on your skin. So everything from. Soaps, toothpaste, laundry detergent, perfumes, cosmetics, dish soap, on and on. Dr. Kristi Funk: Be cognizant of what's in your direct contact all day long. Dr. Taz: So this is a cumulative load. I think people hear this and then they are kind of like, well, we're Where do I start? Like, what do I do? Right? Because the science is there. I know you've seen it. I've seen it too, which really talks about cancer being sort of a cumulative load of all of this stuff. Dr. Taz: And I think the two words, tell me if you agree with me or not, you know, and all the work I've been doing on hormones and talking about hormones and, you know, going into menopause with hormone shifts and all this other business, you know, the words that keep coming up are oxidative stress, which is that Cell not getting the energy it needs. Dr. Taz: Right. And then chronic inflammation, which then become the drivers of cancer. So when you are talking nutrition and toxins in the environment and what we're putting on our body and how we feel and our emotional health and all that stuff. Um, I feel like those are the two big words where all of that is being sort of determined, right? Dr. Taz: Like your oxidative stress is being determined by that entire list that you just gave us. Your levels of inflammation are being determined by that. And that applies to breast cancer as well. So Dr. Kristi Funk: when you, for example, chew and swallow down food, you're elevating estrogen levels in your body, a growth hormone called IGF 1, which is the hugest growth promoter. Dr. Kristi Funk: Angiogenesis, angio blood vessel genesis birth. So it's the birth of new blood flow that every cancer cell in your body must Acquire this new blood flow if it aspires to be bigger than the tip of a ballpoint pen, which, what cancer doesn't have those big dreams? Insulin sensitivity and resistance, and those things all contribute dramatically, fundamentally, to oxidative stress. Dr. Kristi Funk: So now you've got this inflammation and this, Chronicity sets up immune system dysfunction and dysregulation. So when DNA damage happens, you are ill equipped to swoop in and repair it. So now these damaged DNA cells, i. e. cancer, that is what cancer is, have free license to grow and proliferate out of control and unchecked and unfiltered by an Immune system that should have been highly intact and functional but because of choices that you don't realize you're making Directly impact this inflammatory state in this oxidative stress imbalance. Dr. Kristi Funk: Your immune system is handcuffed It has too much to do. It's overwhelmed. It's overtaxed and decade after decade after decade of consistently living with Less than optimal choices, right? We'll land you something fill in the blank. It may not be breast cancer, but it will be Heart disease or stroke or diabetes or joint issues and irritable like all the things that we listed There the outflow of chronic inflammation Dr. Taz: So when we were back if we think back we're not 50 years out or 20 30 years out But if we go back 50 years Was this an issue then? Dr. Kristi Funk: It was an issue to the minority of people. Now we're looking at 72 percent of Americans being overweight or obese. One in three is pre diabetic or diabetic and on and on. Right. Like in 1990, 12 percent of America was obese. Now it's 35%. So it was there. It was just on a lower level. And so were a number of other things such as ultra processed food. Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. Literally 50 percent of all calories consumed by the American, by the average American today. Come from ultra processed food every single day. 50 percent of the calories. Again, I mean, I am very passionate about all the things that contribute to I'm hyper focused on breast cancer, but you can fill in the blank of your disease every time, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: True. Very true. But to think that you think that a lay's potato chip is really good nutritional armor for yourselves to fight off this inflammation we've been alluding to is delusional. You said something in passing that I want to kind of bring back because I think I have a nice idea. of putting into the framework of your thinking as a listener, like, whoa, this is now just overwhelming. Dr. Kristi Funk: It seems like I shouldn't even get out of bed because I'm just going to do it wrong. Right. Totally. Dr. Taz: Totally. Dr. Kristi Funk: Um, so let's think about the main contributors. They have a much higher percentage in the science and in reality in your body contributing to this. Oxidative stress. Right. So think of all of your choices in a balance, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: And so you can tip scales. There are boulders, one good boulder and bam, that scale is so tipped that anything else you're putting on the bad side, it's like, it's like a pebble. It's a grain of sand. Like it's already down here. So the boulders that drive us toward an oxidative stress situation, very conducive to breast cancer formation are going to be Eating animal protein and fat. Dr. Kristi Funk: So you lift that boulder off by being more plant forward or in my perfect world entirely Whole food plant based. Mm Dr. Taz: hmm, Dr. Kristi Funk: and I emphasize that phrase out phraseology over vegan Dr. Taz: Right Dr. Kristi Funk: because whole foods are where it's at. We can talk a lot about that if you want to another boulder Obesity and just too much fatness Not sure Google body mass index or BMI put in your numbers as a poor man's index There are better ways of measuring it But basically if you're over twenty four point nine, we have some weight to lose in a boulder to lift next one being sedentary Dr. Taz: Mmm, Dr. Kristi Funk: I love the data pouring in on how exercise, but just movement, just moving more, just parking a little further away from the grocery store. Dr. Kristi Funk: Why are you zipping in circles and circles trying to get the closest spot? Park far away. Make yourself walk. Now, is this Dr. Taz: being sedentary separate from being obese or do the two go together? Dr. Kristi Funk: They are synergistically bad Dr. Taz: for you, but they are completely independent. Wow. Do you know how many people sit at their desk all day long? Dr. Kristi Funk: I do. And guess what? You have to pee. And maybe even do number two. So when you do, why do you walk 10 feet away and go to the bathroom? If you're in a building, take the stairs, purposefully use the toilet on the first floor, whatever floor is farther away from you, and then take the stairs back to your desk. Dr. Kristi Funk: Little things like that are cumulative. So we can jump into how much exercise and movement, because it's also science based, but to finish the thought of boulders, our last boulder is alcohol. Yes. Alcohol has so many detriments. We can deep dive into that. I really love talking about it because it's ubiquitous and it's associated with cultural and social norms that we need to bust. Dr. Kristi Funk: And I actually have seen a really strong trend, as I'm sure you have, towards sobriety. When I Dr. Taz: started practice, It's, you know, I'm 15 years in, in my integrative practice, but when I started, it was like so many women coming in saying, Oh yeah, I drink a glass of wine every night or two, you know, and that was their relaxation technique. Dr. Taz: And now more and more, I think the awareness is out there that, Oh no, it's just the weekend. It's not like every single night. So that is shifting. Dr. Kristi Funk: It's shifting, but I think there's a lot of work to do and enlightenment to create because we see what we want to see. So there are, you know, for example. If you yourself have cut back or completely are done with alcohol, you're gonna start noticing the people who do what you do, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. If you're remodeling your home, you are acutely aware of, oh, the molding over here, the floor. Oh, look at that ceiling. Oh, the color choice is this page or is this, you know, I mean, you start, you hyperfocus on things that you're interested in. So if you are unaware of the detrimental effect of. Dr. Kristi Funk: Alcohol use inside of your body you will largely go through your day still unaware and not seeing the signs and hearing the facts Dr. Taz: Very much. So now does alcohol and sugar kind of go together or again are those independent alcohol and what sugar? Dr. Kristi Funk: Oh sugar how interesting they go together in that alcohol is a very is another source of refined sugar, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: cookies cakes pastries ice cream bagels Pixie Stix. Pure sugar. I remember Pixie Stix. Remember that? Dr. Taz: It's Halloween almost. Yeah. I said, Dr. Kristi Funk: yeah. So, uh. All of these choices are really bad pure refined sugar. The problem, interestingly, is not so much the sugar as the insulin that goes flying out after it. Right. Dr. Kristi Funk: So we have this scale, and we have these four points. Big heavy boulders in the forms of animal products being sedentary and being overweight drinking alcohol, but Some people are like none of those is advice to me. I'm all i'm good. I'm on my scales balanced Well now is when the pebbles can start to shift things toward illness instead of health and those smaller Pebbles that contribute are going to be environmental toxicities, emotional stress, hormone replacement therapy, a lack of restorative sleep, and a lack of fasting. Dr. Taz: Interesting. All right. We got a lot to unpack here. So let's go back to the boulders. I think that's a good place to begin. So you mentioned diet and you mentioned animal protein in particular. Right now we're in a culture in a context of protein, protein, protein, get those protein grams up as well. Dr. Taz: Difficult to get those protein grams up when people are becoming vegetarian. I have so many, you know People complaining to me women complaining to me about that Is it no animal protein? Is it a moderate amount of animal protein? Tell me what the science says about animal protein and breast cancer And is it an issue of excess consumption quality? Dr. Taz: Tell us a little bit more about and you know dial through that just a little bit more. Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay so every time we're asking a question about animal protein and cancer risk. The question I always ask back is compared to what? So for example, processed meat. What's that? Sausages, bacon, hot dogs, but everything that comes out of the deli case at the supermarket including organic Chicken breast, turkey breast, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: All processed Dr. Taz: meat. All the sliced stuff that everyone's using in their sandwiches and all those other places. Yes, and the charcuterie board at the fancy party. They're so pretty though, but anyhow, yes. They're so pretty and they're Dr. Kristi Funk: absolutely carcinogenic to all humans. So the IARC, the IARC, International Agency for Research on Cancer is a subdivision of the World Health Organization and in 2015 There were 22 researchers in Lyon, France who were they weren't locked in a room, but they're in a room They're looking they're from 10 different countries, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: So we have a real smattering and it's important to me to emphasize if you don't know that the IARC is not bought by anyone And well, I don't want to deep dive into that with this Right now at all Funding is a big issue issue when it comes to research outcome. You can manipulate data in oh so many ways and that happens but not at this level the IARC is all about telling us humans on planet earth what definitely does or what probably does Cause cancer end of mission. Dr. Taz: Wow. Dr. Kristi Funk: So in 2015, they were charged with the responsibility of looking at these 800 Epidemiologic studies and answering two questions. Does red meat cause cancer? Does processed meat cause cancer? Okay And what they concluded was that all processed meat is a class one carcinogen, which means it Absolutely is carcinogenic to humans with the same certainty As plutonium asbestos. Dr. Kristi Funk: Oh my goodness and alcohol You Dr. Taz: Plutonium and asbestos equals turkey deli meat and charcuterie boards. Yes, Dr. Kristi Funk: it does. Dr. Taz: Now, Dr. Kristi Funk: with scientific certainty. Not with the same power to cause the cancer. Right, right, right. So, that's mind blowing because These, these deli meats are at every, everywhere, they're everywhere, they're in every school lunch box in America, almost. Dr. Kristi Funk: And I love Dr. Taz: that you said too, I hope everybody caught that. I love you said, I love that you said, even if it's organic, I think there's a lot of like, well, it's organic, so it's okay. No. When it comes to meat, Dr. Kristi Funk: certainly eating a purer form of meat will eliminate the excessive use of antibiotics and hormones and the GMO feed that's dumped with glyphosate that that animal then eats that actually gets into your body. Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. Glyphosate has been in the quantities you would get from a typical GMO. Soybean consumption, right? Which all the animals are eating these GMO soybeans as part of their food food You drip that amount of glyphosate onto a petri dish of human breast cancer cells and they immediately grow It is a pure estrogen basically fueling the growth of these cells so Dr. Taz: when Dr. Kristi Funk: we think about the purity of the meat, organic or not. Dr. Kristi Funk: Yes, you're escaping some of these toxicities that are added to the animals that get into the food that's on your plate. However, there are other considerations, including what is naturally in the meat that the animal itself just had in the meat. So we're talking trans fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, heme iron, nitrates, This is in organic meat because it is meat part of meat, right number three then So what's added to the meat is something you can avoid by choosing more sustainably raised, etc You can never escape what's in the meat You can never get what's not in meat, namely fiber, water, and certain vitamins. Dr. Kristi Funk: It slows the Dr. Taz: gut Dr. Kristi Funk: down. All of these things. Exactly. I mean, we could wax on about fiber. Right. A whole different episode. Um, and then sometimes then if you're, um, when you're thinking about, eating meat, you are thinking if it's organic, you're, you're not harming your insides, but you have an automatic reaction to the presence of animal protein that does not care at all about how pasture raised it was, how happy it was, how many acres it could roam before it was put on your plate. Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. And that response is to elevate things that we've talked about. The estrogen levels, the growth hormones, the angiogenesis, the insulin resistance and all of this stuff that leads to the playground for cancer. Dr. Taz: Now couple this whole issue with meat around what you already alluded to, which was obesity and blood sugar and insulin resistance, right? Dr. Taz: So somebody on a plant based diet who's concerned about their cancer risk, what is the best way for them to manage blood sugar stability and insulin resistance? Aside from exercise and movement and consistent sleep. What would you tell them? Dr. Kristi Funk: A lot of insulin regulation is coming from, I think, two main pathways you want to think about. Dr. Kristi Funk: One is your saturated fat consumption. So you can still, of course, get saturated fat in your plant based eating. It's gonna be a lot harder than one filet of right beef, right? so Dr. Kristi Funk: So one thing that's happening with saturated fat you've got these Um, insulin receptors that sit on cells, right? Right. And when insulin, so glucose is happening and blood sugar's in the bloodstream and the pancreas is like, Oh, let me throw out some insulin to manage this glucose. We need to use it and store it. Dr. Kristi Funk: So I'm going to send out insulin to hit this gate, hit this receptor, which is when inhabited by insulin is going to say, Hey, glucose gate, open up, let the sugar in. Mm hmm. All right? Dr. Taz: Mm hmm. Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, what happens? People think that diabetes. Is a sugar problem, right? It is a saturated fat problem. Wow What is happening is saturated fat is literally when it's too plentiful hiding and it stuffs itself in part into insulin receptors. Dr. Kristi Funk: So now eat your meal, doesn't have to be candy, just a normal meal. It's going to elevate your blood sugar. Out comes the insulin, Oh let's deal with the blood sugar. It's done. Flying around going, whoa, I can't get in here. You can't get in here. And the receptors are, I'm, I'm, I'm stuffed with fat. I can't hear you. Dr. Kristi Funk: I can't hear you, right? So the insulin isn't giving any signal for the glucose gate to open. So it's still shut and your pancreas is like, what's wrong with you people? I'm gonna throw out more insulin and the glucose is still running around and everybody's screaming that, oh my gosh, her blood glucose is so high and now comes the hyperinsulinemia because the insulin is trying to get this message across and the whole problem is the fat. Dr. Taz: So Dr. Kristi Funk: you eat a low fat plant based diet, if this is one of your medical issues right now, that you're dealing with insulin resistance, and all of a sudden the fat will melt away from the receptor. The insulin that comes out on the first pass will be enough to hit that receptor, open the gate, down goes the sugar, and look how beautiful your blood pan is. Dr. Kristi Funk: So then what Dr. Taz: do you say to, and I don't want to, You know, get too deep in the weeds on this, but what do you say to the keto community? Or, you know, some of those folks that are coming in trying to manage their insulin resistance by really increasing all kinds of fat in their diet. What sort of, what does the science say to about that when it comes to breast cancer, insulin resistance, and trying to close this gap? Dr. Taz: You will not Dr. Kristi Funk: be able to show me a long term study looking at keto and its long term effectiveness. In the short term, yes, blood sugar gets better regulated, even hemoglobin A1c comes down. We have to watch out, though, what's happening behind the scenes with cardiac disease. Dr. Taz: And Dr. Kristi Funk: what you really need to make sure you're okay is an oral glucose control. Dr. Kristi Funk: Tolerance test unless you're doing that the hemoglobin A1c isn't really the truth truth. What we need to know is that when you swallow down liquid sugar, your receptors receive that insulin readily and deal with it quickly on the sugar level. And that test is often failed. by people on keto. Dr. Taz: Oh, I think that's such a good point because so many people look at their A1Cs and think they're fine, you know, and so I think that's a really important point as well. Dr. Taz: So plant based, whole foods, any tips? How do you make that a reality in day to day life for people who are like, I, I want to do this and I want to protect my risk given the environment that we're in today? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. You can get really excited about this and then you, Oh, I have a refrigerator and you're like, Oh crap. Dr. Kristi Funk: Just give me the turkey sandwich. I don't know what's happening to my hands. This is too hard. Right. Um, So there are so many resources with just a good Google of, you know, plant based recipes and so many sites. I have created Pink Lotus. Power Up. It's a community. Okay. Uh, filled with a ton of members. It has over 50, 000 members. Dr. Kristi Funk: And in there is a kitchen where I have recipes. I have a cooking show once a month that shows you up close and in person how we can make plant based eating simple and quick. I have three teenage sons. I am, Working full time. I don't have time to I feel like all my free time if I'm not exercising. I'm chopping vegetables, but The way you make this a reality is to recognize that if you're honest and you are like the slice of American pie that We know to be true. Dr. Kristi Funk: You only have eight meals that are your go to meals. Very true All right, so revamp them to be plant forward if we're transitioning or entirely plant based breakfast is super easy Let me give you like breakfast could be a smoothie It can be oatmeal, but just not just oatmeal add some flax seeds some cinnamon some berries Top it with some seeds and nuts and boom, you have a really great meal there. Dr. Kristi Funk: You could do avocado toast. You could do a tofu scramble instead of egg scramble, right? There's a lot of easy things for breakfast. Just look at your current meal. So I, when I became totally plant based and so did my entire family on a dime in one minute, eight years ago. Before that, I would say for lunch, I'd have a massive salad with a salmon filet on top and a bunch of feta because I love cheese. Dr. Taz: Me Dr. Kristi Funk: too. Okay. So now, if that's you, you look at that cell and say, you know what? I'm going to replace the salmon with maybe a grilled bar of tofu, right, and the feta cheese, I personally don't need, but you can do some sort of vegan substitute cheese kind of thing happening, or just recognize that you don't need that and have more delicious dressing with nutritional yeast in it, which makes it like a cheesy flavor if that's what you're after. Dr. Kristi Funk: My point is, look at the meal and see what can sub for what used to be the protein star of the plate. Dinner. Chicken, vegetables, mashed potatoes. Okay? Mine, of course, was always skinless, boneless, organic chicken breast. Again, better than the thigh with skin from a GMO chicken. But the point is, we want the chicken off the plate. Dr. Kristi Funk: So what can I put on instead? I have a favorite chicken substitute in the form of seitan, which is Oh yeah, I've had, yeah, platter of that. Right? Right? Right. This is unfortunately not for my gluten sensitive people out there or celiacs. Right. But that is surprisingly fewer than the people who think they are. Dr. Kristi Funk: 1 percent of America's celiac and maybe 5 percent of gluten sensitivities. And yet there's a whole industry now, you know, Advertising to the gluten sensitive. So I think people think they mistake things we can I digress. So the point is this is a really delicious chewy It's like a vegan meat for us that you plant based Because it has the consistency of meat and takes on the flavoring and the spices you choose to use So I buy it in bulk and so it just is like flour. Dr. Kristi Funk: It's wheat gluten and then you it takes literally Four minutes in a food processor for me to get all that ingredients in and then it forms this doughy Bread ish thing that you can roll into whatever so I make little chicken like cutlets out of it And then you steam it for 30 minutes And it is a, there's the star of my plate, 24 grams of protein for one third of a cup. Dr. Kristi Funk: Wow. And my kids will eat a cup. That's 60. Dr. Taz: So, you know, when patients are coming into you and they're either concerned about breast cancer or they've had a diagnosis of breast cancer, you know, when they transition to sort of more of this plant based diet, what are you seeing? Like what are you seeing kind of in the exam room? Dr. Taz: What are you seeing maybe on imaging? What is some of the benefit of kind of going through this? Dr. Kristi Funk: Well, if they already had their cancer surgery, you know, they're in maintenance mode. What they tell me isn't necessarily, there's no real cancer marker, right? Unless they have a recurrence on the horizon, everything looks fine. Dr. Kristi Funk: The imaging is clear and their blood tumor markers are negative or normal range. So what I hear them say is, Oh my gosh, and then enter in all the side benefits that I mentioned I didn't realize my arthritis had to do with that I had trouble opening peanut butter jars and now put my knuckles never hurt I'm getting out of bed without my feet having that like need to wake up kind of angle motion feeling My skin is better. Dr. Kristi Funk: My thought is clearer. My sleep is deeper. My sex life is better my ldl cholesterol Dr. Taz: I got off the lipitor. Yeah, we see that frequently. What about from an imaging standpoint? Do you see changes in dense breast or in fibrocystic breast or many of these things that women today are dealing with? You Dr. Kristi Funk: definitely Dr. Taz: do. Dr. Kristi Funk: So plant based eating can decrease density but there's such a genetic footprint on density at a baseline that it's hard to, you know, it's hard to Manipulate that exclusively with diet, but if someone's teetering on dense not dense, so we grade it a through D So if you're a BC on the fence of dense and not dense, it will usually just slide right into not dense. Dr. Taz: Gotcha So you mentioned some of the other boulders and then you mentioned the pebbles right which are those Smaller things that you can do, you know, part of the show, we call it science and spirit for a reason. There's a lot of great science and data and research. And then there's a lot of just the human experience and what you're going through on any given day and, and how all the elements of your life kind of add up to maybe trigger inflammation or oxidative stress or joy or love or all the happy, positive things as well. Dr. Taz: You know, I have often shared the story and it's, Unfortunately true, but I have sat with a lot of women over the last 15 years or so. And any time I've sat with one that is going through deep grief, a trauma, a divorce, I, my heart sinks a little bit to be a hundred percent honest because I can almost time that 18 months later, we're dealing with something. Dr. Taz: 80 percent of the time that something is breast cancer and it goes back to what we were just talking about with the liver meridian and Chinese medicine. I think there is something to all of that and where we hold and store emotions. You mentioned it as one of the pebbles, you know, for sure. You know, what, where, what are you telling women when that shows up? Dr. Taz: What should they be doing? What should they be thinking about, you know, in terms of that as part of their breast cancer risk? Dr. Kristi Funk: Oftentimes I will ask a woman, so the 18 month timeline is. Probably, uh, because something is so developed already, but the instigating time of cancer was definitely more like seven years ago. Dr. Taz: Somewhere between five Dr. Kristi Funk: and 15 years, depending on the division rate of the tumor, was the first cell that went awry. Now keep in mind, one cell becoming two, becoming four, these division rates. Takes between depending on your age three to six months for one cell to become two. A sugar cube of cancer has 1 billion cells. Dr. Kristi Funk: Wow. So when you do the division rate and the math backwards on a one centimeter cancer, mind you the average detection size is 2. 2 centimeters, you will find that the math will put you about eight to ten To 10 years ago. So I will say what happened back then. And that was the heartache, the death, the divorce, the job loss, the major life stressor that tipped those stress scales that created Excessive cortisol output, excessive TNF alpha, interleukin 6, you recognize these things as numbers and letters that are associated with an inflammatory cascade of badness. Dr. Kristi Funk: You can deal with cortisol, again, when the proverbial bear is chasing you, right? It's the fight or flight stress hormone. It's our most potent glucocorticoid flying out of our adrenal glands, and it's highly useful when you're trying to have an An engaging podcast. Right. So you're excited about it or you're trying to hit the winning shot on the pickleball court or you're giving a big presentation. Dr. Kristi Funk: So thank goodness for some cortisol when you need it most. But you do not need it all day long. It is, it is because of the deep heartbreak that leads to that stress and depression and the existence of these Markers day after day. Do you think women are just more stressed? Oh, no doubt this generation than previous You know starting in the 60s and 70s Thankfully, we had a lot of liberation and you know We were able to increase our station in life and become more independent, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: And that all has a lot of beauty to it But it also has some stress to it because now We started entering the workforce in droves We were delaying childbearing or not having kids at all Which by the way is a breast cancer protection thing to have children younger. It's not Not a reason for oh mom. I reduced my breast cancer risk. Dr. Kristi Funk: I got pregnant at 15 that's not what i'm saying, but the Point is we know that women have been delaying. I mean, hey, I had tripled at 40. Yeah, so, you know, 36 and 38 Dr. Taz: 34 and 36, right? So we Dr. Kristi Funk: were trying to get the education We needed and foster the career until the timing seemed better right a perfect time, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right delaying or eliminating breastfeeding We're in LA bumper to bumpering at home and stressful traffic Just in time to get home to probably lay takeout on the table or have Instacart deliver something and then you pour a glass of wine And last thing you need to do now is get in that gym and do some treadmill work You are sitting on the couch with a glass of red wine And you are watching your latest netflix binge because you deserve it because you had a great Crazy long day. Dr. Kristi Funk: And you're exhausted. Dr. Taz: You know, my daughter is 16. We were talking about that and she's like, you guys just messed it up. Like this whole women's rights, like, you know, like, what were y'all thinking? Like, well, I go, first of all, I wasn't a part of that. But secondly, I do believe in women being financially independent. Dr. Taz: I think it's very important. You know, many women have suffered with, you know, their inability to be able to have choice and voice and all these other things. Of course. She's like, yeah, but like, God. Now I have to do this too. I'm like, it's okay. You can be a stay at home daughter. So, but no, all jokes aside, like I do think there's something there. Dr. Taz: I think that we went for it. We did it. Women are doing incredible, amazing things and contributing to society. But I talk a lot. One of my books, I talked about superwoman syndrome. I think that we also have to now demand that society meets us to where we can be. Be women, you know, and I think that that is something that probably i'm hoping the next generation will push forward for sure You know, Dr. Kristi Funk: well, I think something our generation is starting to implement is the new buzzword of self care, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right, right So the me time that is really actually just still part of my generosity to the rest of you in this world in my family Right in the meantime allows me to show up and be better for you time Right and whatever that looks like like for you, it's important to prioritize it. So Dr. Taz: important. All right, well let's go back to you're a young woman, you're under 50, and you've listened to this and now you're really concerned. Dr. Taz: You know, you know now that it's a little bit of a level playing field when it comes to the incidence and the risk of breast cancer. You know that we have choice with all the things that you've talked about that are amazing. But what should someone, once they're instituting a lot of these different lifestyle changes and trying to put things in motion, what's a good screening plan? Dr. Taz: What are labs maybe? Like should everyone go get a TNF alpha and an IL 6 checked every year? You know, those are maybe extreme, but like in your opinion, if you could like wave a wand, not worry about insurance, not worry about any of these things, right? What would you tell young women to do? And I think we're talking to our daughter's age even, 20, like what should young women do as we continue to see cancer rise in younger age groups? Dr. Taz: What should they be doing on a yearly basis? So Dr. Kristi Funk: the problem as I see it with screening and looking at certain tests is that we're just looking for the cow that's out of the barn. Right? I really want to focus so that there are no cows. So in so many ways. So to the teenager, I'm going to say, you know what, this seems crazy, but I want to teach you how to do. Dr. Kristi Funk: A breast self exam. I'm not thinking in a million years that we're looking for cancer We're learning to be familiar with our growing developing breasts learn where the lumpy bumpiness is learn that it's tender here and not there So that god forbid Somewhere around 20 plus years from now if there's ever a change you will be very clear in your mind that This was not there before so we need a familiarity with our own breasts So I advocate for as soon as periods start, you know, 11 12 13 we could talk about precocious puberty, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right, so Another story so when your periods start let's start learning how to do a proper self breast exam so that you're familiar with your breasts And then it's not like it's Giving you the heebie jeebies to do a self exam when you're 45 and your right incidence is Elevated enough that you should be aware of your breast Number two all the science shows that the earlier you implement the amazing thing like cruciferous vegetable intake Dramatic decrease in breast cancer risk for just cruciferous veggies, which is your broccoli cauliflower kale arugula Brussels sprouts intake as a teenager is You Has like a 50 percent reduction in premenopausal breast cancer. Dr. Kristi Funk: It's pretty incredible. Wow. Dr. Taz: So wait every teenager needs to know this Yeah that again Okay, sure all the moms that are listening replay this over and over and over again in your children's phones But hey, it's a Christopher's Dr. Kristi Funk: vegetable intake in your teens And as an as a young adult has been linked to a 50 percent decrease in my scans risk Okay, premenopausal eat your vegetables Mom was right again exercise Get it into a routine so that it's normal for you that there is this idea of, you know, being sedentary Is never an idea right always be active for sure Children prior to college need an hour a day We as adults we need about five hours a week if it's Exercise that you can have a conversation with your buddy about right? Dr. Kristi Funk: So if you're speedwalking, but you can talk about the office drama then right you need five hours a week If it's super sweaty vigorous exercise as defined by a little bit hard to have a complete sentence two and a half hours a week Okay, so that is doable. It's very doable. Especially if you're gonna be super sweaty We're talking about 20 minutes a day, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: But as a child, well, I'm getting so old now that like a 20 year old seems like a child. Exactly. Um, in your teens and early adulthood, exercise should be part of the routine so that you're already reaping like the dopamine hits and the benefits, like you want to, like why wouldn't you exercise? It seems crazy that you wouldn't, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Right. So now we're body aware, specifically breast aware, we're eating more vegetables and we're moving more. Then we get into what do we do in the doctor's office. In your 20s, you're a gynecologist or internist, whomever you see, every three years you need a doctor's breast exam. Starting at age 30, I want it to be every Dr. Taz: year. Dr. Taz: Okay. That's a good tip. I hope everyone's taking notes. Every, every year starting at age 30. Yes. Okay. Dr. Kristi Funk: Now, some strong data suggests that both self exam and clinical breast exams are useless when it comes to breast cancer mortality. Dr. Taz: Mm. Dr. Kristi Funk: And that's simply because people aren't good at it. Dr. Taz: Mm. Dr. Kristi Funk: That's all that is. Dr. Kristi Funk: And I think it's really bad. Patronizing and I don't like hearing that because I have way too many astute clinicians who have sent a patient I'm, not sure it's something but just go see dr Funk right and lo and behold that doctor just saved your life possibly or you saved your own life I have so many women coming in right with the lump they found themselves. Dr. Kristi Funk: I found mine. I found mine on my own. You did say that, right? Yeah. So thankfully it wasn't cancer, but had it has to be monitored now, right? What if you ascribe to like, oh, they say self exam is useless, so I guess what I'm feeling is not something, you know, ridiculous. Right. Train of thought. So the more early detection, the lower the mortality rate. Dr. Kristi Funk: This is a fact. So why are we not employing these, you know, Fairly cheap and easy tools that have zero exposure, right? We're not talking radiation or injections of dye, etc Now we are so enter age 40 for normal risk women Not those with a super strong family history with genetic mutations with prior history of a biopsy that showed what we call a marker lesion That you would know if you had and it puts you at elevated risk to make a cancer one day We changed the screening recommendations for that category of women to usually start younger Okay or more frequent or more, more than mammogram and ultrasound, but average age, average risk woman should start mammograms at age 40. Dr. Kristi Funk: 40 Dr. Taz: and you still like mammograms. And there's a lot of like chatter about mammograms mammograms Dr. Kristi Funk: cause breast cancer, huh? And I still like them weird Why you know we use the tools we're given and this is what's happening with mammograms If you take 10, 000 women and they get a mammogram every single year between the ages of 40 and 74 in That period of time in those 10, 000 women you will cause breast cancer 8. Dr. Kristi Funk: 6 cancers from the radiation the repeat radiation. However, you will have found 860 cancers. So it's still worth it. So it finds a hundred times more. A hundred times more. I think Dr. Taz: that's important. Especially. Than it causes. Cause women latch on to, and I get this question all the time, you know, like, well, I heard mammograms cause cancer. Dr. Taz: Do I have to do a mammogram? You know. Dr. Kristi Funk: And I always empower women with their own decision making, but I give them some stats. So that's a good one to know. We're going to find a hundred times more cancers than we're going to cause, but you are right. Mammograms do cause cancer and there shouldn't be radiation involved and yet there is. Dr. Kristi Funk: Can they do an ultrasound? They can, so let's look at the data around that. It is not as good at detecting cancer as the combination of a mammogram and an ultrasound, but as a standalone in excellent hands, so this is very tech dependent, right? An ultrasound Is a probe in someone's hand getting rolled over there's also automated ultrasound Which takes away the tech dependence, but then it's like a plate that has to be applied, you know, right uniform pressure and then the thing goes Just like automatically goes across the breast and gives you a movie as a radiologist to read So it's still at some level human dependent because we have to apply the device and then a human is reading the imaging but the point is In excellent hands, ultrasound is an excellent tool for cancer detection. Dr. Kristi Funk: And I think it's equal with mammography, but they see different things. Dr. Taz: The Dr. Kristi Funk: one thing you will almost always, always miss when you try to omit doing mammogram. is DCIS, ductal carcinoma in situ, is a stage zero cancer. It has no ability to spread, so it is never treated with chemo and it has no hope of ever killing you. Dr. Kristi Funk: So, in other words, our earliest, most, um, curable cancer is missed, it's skipped over when you're doing only ultrasound or hands on exams. Or even MRI as you're screening because the only modality that reliably finds it is mammogram. Now, someone out there listening to this will be like, I had DCIS and it was found by, there are about 5 percent of DCIS can be a palpable lump and if it's palpable, that means it could be visible then on ultrasound or MRI, but. Dr. Kristi Funk: All Dr. Taz: right, let's talk about DCIS for a second because you just brought that up. I remember interviewing an expert not too long ago who talked about DCIS and said, A, you were over diagnosing it. Here in the United States compared to Europe and other countries around the world and B that DCIS is not really cancer It's because it's localized and we are over treating it. Dr. Taz: So we're both over diagnosing and over treating What do you say to that out of curiosity? And what is this again? What does the science say? Okay, Dr. Kristi Funk: I agree almost Okay, so the only part I disagree with is that DCIS is cancer So to call it not cancer is just trying to calm the woman down because what you actually mean to say is this isn't going to kill you. Dr. Taz: But Dr. Kristi Funk: you feel like, you hear cancer, you think, ah, my life is in the balance, right? I could die from this. I could die. Hopefully you're not thinking I am going to die, but the Point is DCIS can never kill you, so stop calling it cancer, but that's just because we link the word cancer with possibly dying. Dr. Kristi Funk: That's all that is. What is DCIS? Yes, we over diagnosis. Yes, we over Yes, we over diagnose it. And yes, we over treat it. So let's talk about it. So you'll totally get it once I explain it. Okay, go for it. Just go for it. We've got these milk ducts, right? They're like little tubes, like spaghetti tubes, and the inside is supposed to have a single cell lining. Dr. Kristi Funk: When the cells get crowded and crowded and crowded and they fill the duct tube and widen it by two millimeters or more, boom, that's the diagnosis of breast cancer. Dr. Taz: Okay. Dr. Kristi Funk: Ductal carcinoma in situ, standing in place, is what in situ means. So you have this circular tube intact with cells that have been transformed into cancer because the Dr. Taz: DNA Dr. Kristi Funk: is altered. Dr. Kristi Funk: But they can't get outside the duct wall so they can never access lymphatics or bloodstream and spread Dr. Taz: So Dr. Kristi Funk: it is very easily treated and cured By cutting it out. However Data will show about a 40 percent recurrence in the surrounding breast tissue, unless you radiate after cutting it out. Now this can get much more precise about you and your DCIS and the genomics of your DCIS, the actual like fingerprint of your personal cancer. Dr. Kristi Funk: We run it through diagnostic testing and instead of being broad based numbers of 40 percent recurrence without radiation, four percent recurrence if you do radiate we actually have your dna numbers and it could be even higher than that like a 65 chance if you don't radiate but a lot of the time it's like exactly like this seven percent chance of recurrence if you radiate 7 percent chance if you don't huh, boom We just eliminated even the stress and thought about needing radiation for you because it's not gonna be helpful Gotcha, so that is how perfect example of over treatment we over treat every Again, when I say things like every there's always individualization and conversations, but if you just standard of care for your average blanket average Yes Dcis is treated with lumpectomy followed by radiation versus mastectomy and not every dcis needed that so it's over treatment and when we think about overdiagnosis That's because, listen to this, DCIS can regress and disappear. Dr. Kristi Funk: So you went and found it when it was on its way to going, going, gone, but now we found it. So now we're going to treat it. There was a brilliant study because it was a cadaver study looking at 854 women who had died without a living diagnosis of breast cancer. So we have double that, 1700 breasts that they looked at. Dr. Kristi Funk: This is gonna blow your mind. In women who were 40 to 50 years old, guess how many of the breasts had DCIS? 30 percent. That's such a great guess! Dr. Taz: 39. Oh, I'm good. Dr. Kristi Funk: You are really good. Dr. Taz: But that's still higher than what I would think. That's so high. Dr. Kristi Funk: Then look at the 50 to 70 year olds. Guess how many of them had DCIS? Dr. Kristi Funk: Oh my gosh, Dr. Taz: I'm gonna mess up my record here. I'm going to say 40 percent on this one. 10. 10? Dr. Kristi Funk: 75 percent of DCIS magically regresses when, oh, when we cross over the threshold of menopause it seems like. So do we even need to be treating it? Now thankfully we have genomics. So we can get in, when I get a core biopsy back of DCIS, before we even decide on the definitive next steps, I do this DCIS to help us understand, like, how mad is this DCIS? Dr. Kristi Funk: Because we have a, about. In other literature, we're gonna land more safely to say one third of all DCIS progresses. It eventually grows and grows, breaks through that duct wall that I was saying. Mm-hmm . Was the mm-hmm . Thing. Containing it from getting into blood vessels or lymphatics. It breaks it, it becomes invasion. Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm-hmm . Now we're into stages. 1, 2, 3, 4. Got it. Okay. Okay. 30% a third will break the duct wall and invade. Two thirds either stays put Dr. Taz: or disappears. Dr. Kristi Funk: And those are Dr. Taz: usually the zeros or the ones, but the twos and threes are invasive, correct? Dr. Kristi Funk: So one is invasive also, it just hasn't gone to any lymph nodes yet, thankfully. Dr. Kristi Funk: So the stage zero DCIS, one third will eventually break the wall and become invasion. Two thirds of all these okay, we diagnosed around 60, 000 women with dcis year after year after year this year 20, 000 thank goodness. We figured it out because it was going to invade and that would be a bigger threat the other 40, 000 right lumpectomies radiation mastectomies anti estrogen pills putting them into premature menopause and misery for nothing for nothing So yes To your initial question, we over diagnose and we over treat, and it is causing a world of psychosocial, emotional, physical hurt and harm. Dr. Taz: So, if you're a woman diagnosed with stage 0 DCIS, which I have to go back and check, I think my mom actually was diagnosed with that. But, where, who do they turn to, to get the right counsel on this? I know, they come to my practice. I know a lot of them are over treated, exactly what you mentioned there. Dr. Taz: Who do you go to? I mean, are you seeing everyone you're going to see? I can see all of you. Women around the world, come see Dr. Funk. I mean, what, how do you find someone who's thinking this way? Dr. Kristi Funk: I find it difficult to find like minded colleagues. Right. But not impossible. So, women, if you're in this situation, while I can't see everyone and I would love to, and I don't work on charities either, so I get that it's not always affordable, but I am accessible via Zoom. Dr. Kristi Funk: Like, I am happy to review cases and provide advice. Well, there's Dr. Taz: also your energy, right? Speaking of stress, like, we have to, There's only so much energy, so Right. So Dr. Kristi Funk: women keep calling. Try to find a community online and figure out who that person's doctor was. Hopefully they're, you know, in your right. Dr. Kristi Funk: Zip code radius. Right. Uh, keep asking if you have an integrative medicine doctor. Mm-hmm . Hopefully that doctor has a community as a community and a referral base for you. Just keep. Searching because it can't be that far away between where you are and where that person is Dr. Taz: And I think keeps coming back to this issue around women's health in general like get two three four Opinions if you need to like really do the work don't don't make that first stop and be like, okay This is what i'm doing. Dr. Taz: I think it really needs to be You have to be your own advocate still and really kind of dig in overall. Now you brought something up. We talked about the younger women, what they can and cannot do. We even talked about teenagers who I'm sure are going to like roll their eyes as they listen to this. But, you know, let's talk about the women that are truly getting impacted more consistently with this. Dr. Taz: And this is women 40 and above, 50 and above, and you mentioned hormone replacement therapy, which is all the rage right now, right? We went from no hormones, no hormones with the Women's Health Initiative to now like everyone's on a patch and a pill and, and that's like the gold standard. What's happening when it comes to breast cancer with all of this conversation? Dr. Taz: Okay, Dr. Kristi Funk: here's the soundbite that you need to know and then we can dive into some facts and details. Okay. Here's the soundbite. Okay. Menopause hormone therapy can and does cause and promote breast cancer. However, it almost uniformly does so few and far between, the rates are not that high. And when, When a cancer is diagnosed, it is almost uniformly a less aggressive, more curable subtype, so much so that the data shows women diagnosed with breast cancer while on MHT have about a 50 percent drop in mortality. Dr. Taz: Interesting. Dr. Kristi Funk: Relative to the same woman who's diagnosed with a similar cancer, not on MHD. In other words, to put that into just easier numbers for people, because percentages can torture you. Right, right, right. A one in 10 chance of dying with your breast cancer diagnosis becomes a one in 20 chance. If you were on MHT, that is a 50% drop in mortality. Dr. Taz: Why? What's the si what, what's happening there? Dr. Kristi Funk: So, one of the drivers for 80% of all breast cancers is estrogen. Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm . Dr. Kristi Funk: There are receptors on the outside and inside of cells. Then when estrogen hits that receptor, it sends a signal to the cancer to multiply and divide. But estrogen driven cancers are inherently less aggressive than estrogen negative ones. Dr. Kristi Funk: So much so that, again with rare exception, an estrogen negative cancer, so there's no receptor for estrogen, is treated with chemo. Your ticket out of chemo card requires estrogen receptors. Dr. Taz: Interesting. There's no estrogen Dr. Kristi Funk: negative cancer that's not going to have a chemotherapy discussion. Now when it's a one millimeter thing, if the patient is 80, I mean, again, I always feel like I have to give qualifiers because it's going to come out with the one story, but I'm talking very big, generally, big numbers of general, this is how it goes down. Dr. Kristi Funk: So it generally is that estrogen negative cancers. Are our most aggressive least curable subtypes of cancer doesn't mean they're incurable but they You know, we throw a lot at them including chemotherapy and immunotherapy and with estrogen positive. It's less aggressive so here's the reality that I have studied and I We know the science supports this. Dr. Kristi Funk: Again, the numbers are few and we can talk exactly what they are. But estrogen, like it or not, is mutagenic and carcinogenic. Dr. Taz: Hmm. All estrogen. Premarin versus our estrogen versus bioidentical estrogen versus estriol. All estrogen? All of them. Dr. Kristi Funk: Not phytoestrogen. plant based estrogen, what you're getting from soy, your isoflavones like genistein and daidzein, the lignins you're getting in flax, etc. Dr. Kristi Funk: All of those estrogens, now some are worse than others in the formulation, like we know that medroxyprogesterone acetate, which is the progesterone used in the WHI, you know, but mutagenic and carcinogenic, these are fancy words, and Mutagens alter the DNA, the base pair, it's altered and now the cell is like permanently deranged as cancer. Dr. Kristi Funk: Carcinogenic changes the cell cycle and the way it's moving through its one cell becoming two and it's potentially like reversed. You can deal with it, but mutagenic is like, you ruined that one. Right. Okay. Right. So Estrogen has the capacity. It's both these things and this has been shown in science So, but how does that translate into numbers in people? Dr. Kristi Funk: So let's use the whi even though it's a terrible study, right? Right, so The data still is the data for the terrible reality of who they, right, so we had zero participants under the age of 50, 10 percent were 50 to 50 years old, 67 percent were over the age of 60, okay, 35 percent were obese. Dr. Taz: It's insane. We didn't pay attention to that. Dr. Taz: That's a huge in a time in the 1990 when 12 Dr. Kristi Funk: percent of Americans were obese They managed to triple the number and put those in the study. Yeah Wow, okay, so 70 percent were overweight or was just like we are now in America But back then that was that you had to work at that Dr. Taz: right Dr. Kristi Funk: 35 percent were actively being treated for hypertension Like 14 percent had already had an osteoporotic fracture. Dr. Kristi Funk: This is an unhealthy. These are sicker women These are sicker women in the whole The whole thing was that the enrollment was geared toward trying to see if MHT caused accelerated heart attacks. And so they wanted, they didn't have all day, like meaning an entire lifetime to wait. They wanted to see people on the verge of a heart attack. Dr. Kristi Funk: And let's put half of the hormones and half of you not. So this is the perfect population. So the only thing that, as it relates to breast cancer, that the WHI tells me is what is the risk of giving an overweight, Oh, 50 percent were smokers. Come on guys. Current or former smokers? Oh man. So what is the risk of getting breast cancer if you put a 60 something overweight hypertensive smoker on hormones that her body has not seen in a decade? Dr. Kristi Funk: A decade, right. And even then, here's the Answer one out of every twelve hundred and fifty Well, what twelve hundred fifty women on hormones one will get a cancer. She would not now prior to the whi earthquake which hit the world in july 2002, there was a collaborative analysis In 1997 all the major studies 90 percent of every study ever done looking at hormones and breast cancer was put into this collaborative working groups analysis So they looked at 51 studies on the subject and what they found is that for every thousand women not on hormones, you have 45 cancers. Dr. Kristi Funk: So that's our baseline risk, 45 out of a thousand. If you're on hormone replacement for five years, you're going to add two more cancers. So 47 out of a thousand. If you're on hormones for 10 years, it's six more cancers. That's where the 10 year mark came from. 15 years, 12 more cancers. Okay. So let's stop there. Dr. Kristi Funk: 15 years of hormone replacement, 12 more cancers is a 1. 2 percent increase. So it's not, it's not that high. And then when you do get a cancer. Dr. Taz: It's Dr. Kristi Funk: better. It's kind of wimpy at killing you. Dr. Taz: So for all the women in perimenopause and menopause that are going on hormones, what would be your cautionary advice or what would you like them to do when you're looking at this from a breast cancer standpoint? Dr. Kristi Funk: Excellent. So from a breast cancer standpoint. I always look at women's risk for the things that are likely to kill them, which ironically is not breast cancer. It's going to be their heart disease, their stroke, their Alzheimer's, probably cancer comes before, you know, our major killer is heart disease. Dr. Kristi Funk: Number two is cancer, and our number one breast, you know, breast is the most common cancer. Lungs still kills us. more often. But the point is, what is your baseline risk? How much of that risk can we, and are you willing to, manipulate through diet and lifestyle choices to offset then this teeny tiny risk that we might be adding for hormones? Dr. Kristi Funk: Because I'm thinking benefit of hormone replacement treatment? Outweighs risk for the vast majority, and I'm not just then talking about the things that she dies from, right? So, yes, we know M. H. T. when started, particularly within six years, but up to ten years within the change. Right. Starting it is protective against heart disease. Dr. Kristi Funk: Provided you don't have any underlying heart disease to begin with and it's obviously very protective against osteoporosis and more importantly the impending osteoporotic fracture. A New England Journal of Medicine article just last year showed that one in three women over the age of 65 who get and will get an osteoporotic fracture and die from it in the next 12 months. Dr. Kristi Funk: So this is a serious threat to life and just morbidity, right? The hip fracture is no walk in the park, even if you don't die from it, Dr. Taz: right? Dr. Kristi Funk: It can create a lot of disability. And, you know, there goes your, your favorite pickleball sport, right? Okay. So we look at that. What is it? So I want to protect your heart. Dr. Kristi Funk: I want to protect your bones. I want to protect. You from colon cancer. We know that's so right and your brain Dr. Taz: right like the brain Okay, so the brain stuff Dr. Kristi Funk: is so all over the place so all over the place with that literature and I'm really looking at the Lisa Moscone I know Dr. Kristi Funk: But you know, I think if I understand even her data correctly, yeah, we're looking at windows of opportunity to start MHT yeah And we're still not sure what it means because while we know starting it six years after menopause has completed, you know, Since the change happened is detrimental in terms of dementia There's the protective window of that first six years But then there's new data that looked at starting it at age 50 and it still had about a 20 increase in dementia So clearly I think we just need the aha reality that we had with heart disease We had the same data with heart disease. Dr. Kristi Funk: Sometimes it increased it, sometimes it decreased it. Oh, I'm pulling my hair out. I'm so confused. Well, confusion has lifted. We now understand if you have under, Estrogen replacement, so helpful. So stupid. Estrogen is not that smart. So if you already have, Arterial plaque. It's like, oh, we're building plaque. Dr. Kristi Funk: Let me help you. Estrogen piles on more So it makes the heart attack rates go up, right? But if your arteries are already clear then estrogen is like I got you girl. Give me a broom I'm gonna sweep these arteries clean, right? So we have to look for the aha moment when it comes to dementia and We'll get there. Dr. Kristi Funk: We're not there yet. So I'm a little cautionary For those who have strong family history of dementia and alzheimer's and you know It doesn't have to do with the ApoE gene and not and that's a very infrequent thing Anyway, like where is it? What is it? There's something in addition to the hormone that either you lack it and it's going to be protective against dementia Or you have it and the hormones are going to contribute. Dr. Kristi Funk: I Dr. Taz: wonder and I don't have Research articles to quote, but now I'm going to start looking at this in practice. I wonder if it all goes back to those two words, if it all goes back to oxidative stress and inflammation, if those are already pre existing within you, and then we layer on hormones on top of that, do we add fire, fuel to fire, right? Dr. Taz: Versus if we did it the other way around. Where we manage the oxidative stress and the inflammation and then add in hormones. So that would be super interesting to look at. I can't wait till we figure it out. We're on the cusp because Dr. Kristi Funk: there's a groundswell of interest and demand. So we will figure it out. Dr. Kristi Funk: We being the collective. The collective. It takes all of us. But I want to finish one other thought, which is the, so I, my first line of thinking on the MHT was the stuff inside of you that you're largely unaware of, right? You may have had a dex, so you know your bone density, but I'm talking heart health, brain health, brain health, muscle strength, right? Dr. Kristi Funk: Okay, these are the big things that I'm most worried about. Whereas you're most worried about probably hot flashing your way to a divorce, right? Like you are feeling insane, blowing everything up. Yeah, you've got the whole, you know, menopause middle happening. Yeah, all of it. All the things we know about hot flashes, night sweats, vaginal dryness, mood swings, itchy skin, thinning hair, insomnia, you know, plus the weird things that are being brought to light by. Dr. Kristi Funk: So many great pioneers now pushing, you know, this menopause reality to the fore of our minds. So, oh my gosh, the adult acne, the heart palpitations, the frozen shoulders. It's not normal. Right? It's all hormonal. And menopause fixes all things. So hopefully your risk of breast cancer is not so high that I can't, um, readily just espouse the idea and be like, yeah, I'm cheerleading you on. Dr. Kristi Funk: Go for it. Go get dosed with your OB GYN and let them know. Get you happy again. There are Unfortunately women who this is just too risky either factually in my calculation or emotionally for them And others who don't see it as risk. They see it as embracing a phase of life that they're not Body is naturally moving into and they want to gently support themselves right through this time But prescriptions aren't their thing right? Dr. Kristi Funk: What does that mean misery is their thing? No, so I have so many ideas through traditional Chinese medicine through Alternative there. There's so many homeopathic so much actually actually work. Yeah, so Phil I That's when you do symptom whack a mole, but not with prescriptions, with things that are gentle on the body and actually work. Dr. Kristi Funk: So for addressing hot flashes, here's my list of weapons, natural weapons for your hot flash. I'm talking about a dry vagina. That first list probably is not going to work on the vagina. So here's the second list, right? So sleep, I've got a great. Supplement and strategy for sleep hygiene and other things for sleep, but not all things work in all people. Dr. Kristi Funk: We all know this So we still have to keep reanalyzing and restrategizing until a woman feels completely supported and healthy and happy Dr. Taz: I mean, I think overall this has been a hopeful conversation because even when we're talking about Women and menopause when we're talking about younger women when we're talking about an increased cancer incidence There's a lot that we can do and it sounds like women can have their hormones. Dr. Taz: They just need to be healthy, you know, and really Watching these markers of what gets us into trouble not just with breast cancer, but with so many different conditions that are out there today What's the future and you don't have to say it You know, you don't have to go too deep, but I'm just curious, what is the future of breast cancer care and treatment? Dr. Taz: What are you seeing on the horizon? You know, what gets you excited about this field? Dr. Kristi Funk: Immunomodulation I think is on the horizon and here so immunotherapy which was usually just for end stage four and really Subtype triple negative cancers has now been moved all the way up into the line of defense First line of defense for early stage cancer. Dr. Kristi Funk: That's exciting because it works. It's pretty miraculous. I have these triple negative cancers that will do chemotherapy with immunotherapy prior to surgery And between stages 70 to 90 percent of those cancers are gone. Wow. By the time we get to surgery. Dr. Taz: With good long term survival, are we seeing good data around that? Dr. Taz: We Dr. Kristi Funk: are. Okay. So it directly correlates the more toward what's called a PCR path complete response. So when I do operate and say we do a lumpectomy where the Clip is where the cancer used to be, and all we have is a clip and a bunch of, um, tumor bed, we call it. You can see the cancer used to be there, but there's no viable cells. Dr. Kristi Funk: If you get the coveted PCR, you have the most excellent prognosis, and it kind of goes from there. The more cells that remain, the higher the risk of the recurrence. That's one thing in cancer care that's really just exploded in the last five years, and we're not done yet. So immunotherapy and immunomodulation would be drugs that Stoke your own immune system to wake up in an annihilated tumor. Dr. Kristi Funk: The other Interesting thing is to circulating tumor dna being able to do a blood test To see one of two things either you already had a cancer breast cancer or any solid tumor We're able to make a blood test unique to you because it's out of your tumor's dna mutations fascinating we make this test and then Draw your blood and run it through the test if you are cured You You can't have those tumor mutations. Dr. Kristi Funk: Those should be in a bucket in a lab somewhere, right? No longer in you So this is how I monitor all of my cancer patients with a very uniquely designed tumor test And believe it or not medicare has approved this Oh, wow. Okay. For stage 2 and above. And usually when Medicare approves something, all the other insurances follow, follow through. Dr. Kristi Funk: And currently the company I'm using, which is the one approved by Medicare, does not charge people when their insurance denies it. So this isn't like a futuristic 10, 000 a pop study I'm talking about. This is accessible by any woman here in America with cancer and any solid tumor. So men with prostate, any, any cancer, they do this test. Dr. Kristi Funk: What's the name Dr. Taz: of it? If someone wants to ask their doctor to do it. Dr. Kristi Funk: Test is called Sign Terra. Sign Terra like signature. Okay. Sign Terra. Okay. And so we run the blood through and as long as it's zero and there's none of those mutations seen, it could be that there's a cancer lurking, but it's so low in quantity, it doesn't reach the threshold of detection for the test. Dr. Kristi Funk: Mm. Hence it's not a one and done. I keep testing them every three months. We kind of make it up and go as the patient wants, but for sure, three years. But finally, this idea of never being able to tell someone that you're cured goes away, there will be a cure. Well, we can tell them they are cured because their blood is zero. Dr. Kristi Funk: Wow. Not one time, but we will figure it out. Like it's still in evolution. The company's been around for a decade, but it's, um, we need a little more data. And then we're going to be able to have the track record to be like, aha, Your subtype, if you're zeros for, say, 24 months, we know the chances of it coming back are like one in a thousand and Dr. Taz: you're fine. Dr. Kristi Funk: Wow. Dr. Taz: This has been such a great conversation. I've been more excited about breast cancer than ever before. This has been such a, like, hopeful, upbeat, positive, great things happening type conversation and the science is coming along. Understanding where your spirit and your lifestyle and all those other things fit into it equally important. Dr. Taz: So I really want to thank you for spending time helping us all understand this. It's so important. It's been so enlightening Talk to us or let let us know what you're up to. What are you up to next? Just you we were talking about the fact that you have triplets You run a practice, you're an avid exerciser, you know, what's next for you? Dr. Taz: You've had a lot of roles over the, you know, the last few years or so as a physician, as a leading physician. So talk to us a little bit about where your energy is going and what's next for you. Dr. Kristi Funk: A lot of energy is going into my Cancer Kicking Summit. So this is really fun. The Cancer Kicking Summit is a three day affair and, um, the ones you can just, you know, In the interest of being evergreen PinkLotus. Dr. Kristi Funk: com slash summit. We'll tell you where I'm going but upcoming in May 2025 I have one in Palm Springs, California and one in Hot Springs, Arkansas. Oh, wow. Yeah This is just a really beautiful transformative Three day weekend where I bring hundreds of women together to really understand this Actionable power right and this idea that you can transform your life. Dr. Kristi Funk: You have agency over your health destiny But let's be practical about right. What am I actually talking about? like it's great to get the real top of the mountain experience where you're so jazzed and then you get home and Real life hits. Real life hits. Back to the grind. The traffic is still there. The fridge is full of carcinogenic food that I told you to get rid of. Dr. Kristi Funk: So it really, I use science. So the kind of twist on my summit, different than other kind of things that you would go to, is that I'm basing everything in research and teaching you the research in a fun way. fun way so that you can digest it and be incentivized and not feel like you're buying into some sort of idea, but it's actually been tested and shown that this matters for you. Dr. Kristi Funk: So in other words, I don't just talk about what to eat and what not to eat. We dive deeper into exercise, into love and relationships and stress management and forgiveness. We dive into learning the pathways of the brain and thinking and how much the brain Thought influences all of it, right? And meditation is a whole entire focus that we have. Dr. Kristi Funk: There's so much power in meditation. So there's a lot that we talk about, and then we have breakout sessions where you can pick what you want to go a little deeper. I have a two hour menopause hormone. I love it. Um, and then there's activities and camaraderie. It doesn't have, it's definitely not. A cancer summit. Dr. Kristi Funk: It's cancer kicking, whether you have it, had it, or never want it. So it's really for everyone. It's a great, the Palm Springs one happens to be purposefully over Mother's Day weekend, because I think it's a great mom daughter event. Dr. Taz: I love it. Well, thank you so much. Last question before I let you go. What makes you whole? Dr. Taz: We talk about becoming whole, being on healing journeys. We know it's both science and spirit. We know it's numbers and your emotions. What makes you whole? Dr. Kristi Funk: What makes me whole is remembering that I only have three passions in life and nurturing each one of them every single day in some capacity keeps me whole. Dr. Kristi Funk: And those three passions, I was going to ask, are a strong foundational belief in God. and nurturing that spiritual relationship, loving my family and killing cancer. Dr. Taz: Love it. Love it. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.