Latest / Between The Rounds Official / Discovering Your True Self in the Ring with Coach Rich Stephenson
Transcript
- Sarah: Performance is decided between the rounds, not in the fight, not in the highlight, in the preparation, the adjustments and especially the conversations that happen between a coach and their fighter. Today's is someone who understands that better than most. Rich Stevenson is a 15-year Army veteran, ⁓ a boxing certified coach ⁓ ⁓ He now runs breathing boxing out of New York Athletic Club, training male and female competitive fighters. And while I've known Rich for less than two years, the impact he's had on my progress has been huge. His calmness in the corner, the way he communicates under pressure, it's really changed how I fight. So this is about his journey. and was a member of the USA boxing national high performance team, coaching at both the youth and elite level. from the military to West Point to the national team, how he builds fighters, what actually happens in the 60 seconds between rounds, and why he believes nobody truly knows who they are until they step inside the ring. This is Between the Rounds. I'm your host, Sarah Rich Stephenson: I've just watched this since I was a kid, taken interest since I was a kid. I do come from sort of a fighting family ⁓ in Puerto Rico. My mother's uncles all fought. And my father and my grandfather on the UK side, Sarah: Cunningham, and I'm excited to introduce Rich Stevenson. Rich, thank you so much for joining me. Rich Stephenson: Absolutely, it's a pleasure, sir. Sarah: You spent 15 years the army. So before boxing, before coaching, what did that time build in you? Rich Stephenson: for RAF, know, the Royal Air Force. ⁓ Sarah: All right. Rich Stephenson: It's there. It's what led them to tell me I couldn't box because they'd both seen what boxing can be and just they put me in taekwondo. Didn't satisfy me. But I've been watching boxing since I can remember existing and loving it. And my father would pop in once in a while and he was a big Nigel Ben fan. So that was something he'd talk about. things. mean, ⁓ the Army is ⁓ it is. I came in at a time where I was in an airborne harness on 2001, September 11, and my Sergeant Airborne was from New York. ⁓ he looks never forget him, in a harness, ⁓ pulling on And he ⁓ looks over he goes, ⁓ hey, Stevenson! I look. Sarah: Mm-hmm. Rich Stephenson: I said, what's up, son, everyone? says, New York's on fire, because he's from New York. And I said, come on, man. I all right, whatever, man. I didn't pay attention. Probably a minute later, the went off on Fort Benning. And we all were rushed into the barracks. And we turned our TVs. And I actually got to see the second plane hit the building. What that did was change everything, obviously, for ⁓ one of us. Sarah: Wow. Rich Stephenson: you know i think it probably changed the world and ⁓ you know to a chain of events that that led to iraq probably shouldn't but it did ⁓ and ⁓ so i did three tours in iraq and and yeah i ⁓ know battle is is something that we as humans i think But ⁓ I've always, my whole life, since I was a kid, hell, I've got my first grade. picture. found it hilarious now, but it never knows. you know, the class picture, they take class pictures every year and all the kids, they'd have us put our hands by our sides and put our hands like this. And in the damn picture, got fist balled up on my sides while everybody's got their hands like that against their legs and mine are fists. know, I just think I'm like, wow, ⁓ guess I was already forming my passion at a young age. yeah, I just, I'm gonna... ⁓ innately prepared for on a certain scale. think ⁓ you know, battle human versus animal, ⁓ human human, more rock, stone, wood ⁓ type stuff bombs, bullets, and the things that has provided with us today. So when you go out there and bullets whiz past your head, Sarah: It's funny, because even now, it's like as boxers, when you get in a picture, you're like, I don't know what to do with my hat. Have I put them on my side? Yeah. Yeah. Rich Stephenson: Yeah, it's that or that. It's one or the other. Yeah, yeah. And so it's natural, quite you know it's it's something similar to what I say about I know we'll touch on later but about not really knowing who you are until the arises and ⁓ you're in a situation where you learn and ⁓ go sir. natural. Sarah: But your ability to be able to draw on certain fights ⁓ in the middle of any Rich, like does your mind work in that way? Like I like you are like an encyclopedia of fights just ⁓ historical fights and you're able to just pull on the the opponent, the strategy, the tack, all of it like a matter of seconds. ⁓ I was going say where there are specific moments where you realize that you were someone who was able to lead people through pressure and through high intense situations. Rich Stephenson: So, the moment do I realize anything. I exist. whether that a good thing or bad thing, it's just how I'm wired. I look back analyze afterward a lot. And that ⁓ doesn't have to be war. I analyze what I said to even. It's just my nature. But, I mean. So, I think it's because ⁓ I don't watch the fight just ⁓ it's entertainment to me. I think I study because I love it and I certainly wasn't planning on fighting or coaching as a little boy when I first started. I just like it and I watch the same fights and over. if ⁓ people are looking at hands touching the body, wherever the fist lands, that's what they're watching. ⁓ watching their feet, I'm watching their head, their eyes, their movement. And I guess ⁓ I have been analyzing boxing rather than watching boxing since I was a little What did it for me, know, mean, a one-star general personally recommended me for a bronze star, claimed ⁓ that I his entire battle plan and pinned me personally with bronze star. ⁓ ⁓ it was General Brigadier Charles, actually Charles William Fletcher. boy. He's a great dude, but ⁓ didn't really know him that well. I was a specialist. I get to interact a ton, but war changes things too because funny when you go to war, ⁓ lot of rank disappears a lot of times because leaders are looking for who gets the job done. They don't really care what your rank is. And so I was Cool Steve because they call you by your last name, Stevenson. And ⁓ I CW5 Sarah: Mm-hmm. Rich Stephenson: cool Steve in it. was a moniker that hung with me, I didn't believe I could be killed. ⁓ utilized a lot of mental preparation that I didn't know ⁓ was doing, but it was just a native thing. When they told us we were going, ⁓ started envisioning ⁓ that I might encounter so that when I did, ⁓ was able to ⁓ and react. ⁓ ⁓ so. ⁓ what it is, is my curiosity to that aspect of boxing and fighting that maybe enables me to recall you know so much. I my wife and I remember we went to you know I showed her the International Boxing Hall of Fame in Kansas and New York and we went into this one room that's got the ring actually from Madison Square Garden in it. Sarah: you had rehearsed it kind of, yeah. It's amazing, because I was gonna ask you, do you see much from your military style into your coaching today? And I think just as you're saying, cool, Steve, it's very much around the calmness that you bring to the environment. Rich Stephenson: Yeah. Yeah, I think I probably piss people off sometimes being so calm when people think you should be crazy. it also back to a poem that my father had me with, which was ⁓ If by Richard Kipling. I think I shared it with you. ⁓ But if you can your head about you when everyone's losing theirs, right? And that's a part of it where... and ⁓ the famous ring ⁓ also got regalia they've got a ton of robes around the entire ring and i walked the ring with her and i was like ⁓ yeah that was when Camacho fought Chavez and that was when know Hagler fought her like just ⁓ she was like Sarah: You have. Rich Stephenson: Yeah, it probably was something that he ingrained into me earlier and maybe a little genetics, but for whatever reason I seem to become, and that's just my demeanor. But yeah, ⁓ so I was able to look back after several and... ⁓ Why? No. What the heck is wrong with you? And I was like, I don't know. It's in my Sarah: What? Rich Stephenson: head. really kind of appreciate, I guess, what I was able to do there and a lot ways I supported my ⁓ troops, the that were directly under my supervision. so I'm proud about it. Yeah, it shifts. mean, you know, it correlates to boxing. Obviously, battle's battle. are a little higher out there than they are in the ring, and perhaps that's why I'm a little cooler ⁓ a boxing arena, because it is battle, but the are very, they're, yeah, just not, they're not, I mean, we know that there's a risk of death, and ⁓ there's a of injury and permanent injury. We all know it when we go in, but... Sarah: It's controlled environment, yes. Rich Stephenson: if we prepare properly the likelihood and the chances shrink dramatically and that's what I try to do with my charge. so ⁓ when I'm in the ring I'm because I know ⁓ chances we'll be okay and ⁓ win loss will come of it ⁓ and learn be better. ⁓ Sarah: Yeah. So you were a fighter first and I know you've shared some stories with me around that. What made you cross over to coaching? Rich Stephenson: I think I had no intention. I always thought the reason I started amateur boxing is I started at 27 years old. So started being realistic and pragmatic. Wasn't going to go pro. Wasn't going to go do this or do that. had absolutely no goal other than to get in ring, enjoy the sport I love, and have some fun But I ⁓ assumed one day I'd have a son that have him box. But yeah, I no intention of coaching other than just them, if ever. And I didn't know how many sons I'd have or what have you. So I just figured it's a good thing to do now. And then I'd have the experience to, if I tell them to do something, at least I've done it. that transition to West Point, West Point wasn't a plan. My buddy was in the English department, I was in the history department, I was an IT person and so was he. And calls me one day and just asks like, hey, you like boxing still, right? And I said, of course. And I said, why are you asking? He you want to be a coach here? And I said, where, what do mean? And it was the women's team at West Point. he said, they don't have a coach. They had a coach. Actually, you may know him, Gennaro, Gennaro Diaz. He at Church Street for quite some time. Sarah: Great. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rich Stephenson: So he was a coach with them, but he was part time because he's all the way down the city. Sarah: Now this makes sense because they used to come to us on a Saturday morning and we would have done like 10, 12 rounds of sparring and then the girls would show up and it's like, okay, gotta go another 10 rounds with these girls and you know their conditioning levels are next level. Rich Stephenson: Yeah. Yeah, through the roof. yeah, that was ⁓ plan and that helped tremendously. He ⁓ played huge role in the success of the team that year. ⁓ But he already there. They were familiar with him. ⁓ So I on kind of, ⁓ hey, ⁓ need here full time that can take care of things. And I looked at it like I can learn from Gennaro. And I did. Sarah: it's clearly come from a bank of great study, a great study of all the work through the years. ⁓ Yeah. Rich Stephenson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And life too. Yeah. Sarah: Your favorite fighter, which I know you've touched on, Johns Jr. But what does he represent to you as a coach? Because I think As a fighter, Roy represents everything of how to break the rule book, right? From like hands down, lean back, doesn't set things up with a jab, but, still learns how to dominate. As a coach who obviously teaches fundamentals, how do you reconcile with that and him being your favorite fighter? Rich Stephenson: Yeah. Well, I reckon it's out there in historical content. Roy Jones used to use all of that. Jones got away from it because he was so damn good that he didn't have to. If you look at Roy Jones in the Olympics, if you look at Roy Jones ⁓ early, Sarah: little through, because you had obviously the four national champions in one year. Was there a moment during that season where you thought this group is special or was it part of like the programming that you guys had worked together on? ⁓ Rich Stephenson: Yeah. Yeah, and again, know, this was so we had for that year and I will give that to Janaro because he was there before me. You know, I didn't just come in and make magic. They were there. They were established. They were the juniors and seniors. What I will say is, is my freshman went undefeated that year in his career hands were at mid guard ⁓ fundamentally fine and sound and did work behind the jab. He actually used the jab still but his right hand was so damn good, his feints were so good, his twitch reflex was just so amazing that he just didn't need to do and pay attention to the rules anymore. But that's what I hold on to more just because I recognize like Gennaro and the previous was an officer ⁓ ⁓ their work. So I always ⁓ that ⁓ individual and then as a team, ⁓ we just did better ⁓ So that's what I know and that's why when we talk about Roy, like you've never heard me say do it like Roy did or do like Roy, because Roy Ali, they're special. And I tell people just enjoy them. Sarah: Mm-hmm. Rich Stephenson: They both also, it has to be said, were absolute workaholics. So they both had talents, ⁓ They were ⁓ tremendous ⁓ athletes, tremendous competitors, ⁓ and are ⁓ undoubtedly tremendous leaders right now. ⁓ keep in touch with a few them. yeah, I'm very to ⁓ been able to coach them have them be my first subject because they made easy. They made it very easy for to transition into coaching. ⁓ And then along with they the living hell of him. ⁓ And ⁓ Roy, ⁓ Roy to the reason he's favorite fighter is I don't know if I've ever anyone that had the package of ⁓ gifts along with hard work and fundamental and baseline ⁓ that he's had. And I tell people ⁓ he's had a glass jaw and we know until he got old ⁓ because nobody could touch him ⁓ properly to even test it. Sarah: Yeah. Rich Stephenson: I'd be remiss if I didn't say coach Jeff Mays. Man, he's guy I called to ask if I should even take it. He told me women listen better than men and it's easy and I found that to be very true. He invited down to ⁓ national qualifiers in Tennessee, Tennessee to work with his team, his group. Sarah: ⁓ well. Wow. Rich Stephenson: It's like when they say can you go through a jungle without getting bit by a mosquito? Well Roy almost did. He just stayed in the jungle too long cuz he felt like it's like he went through it and then came back for a little more and then finally by the mosquitoes, right? But so some people think it ruined his legacy. I don't care. I recognize he was past his prime by far and just that he played you he went and became the the heavyweight world champion against Ruiz. Sarah: Right. Rich Stephenson: And yeah, he really played a extremely instrumental part in my early progress and just, yeah, I likely, ⁓ would have taken me a long time to get where I ⁓ had he not been rock in the beginning. And he still is today. Sarah: Is it? Awesome. That's me. Rich Stephenson: And so to go back down, like he did for Tarver and then again, and ⁓ think he destroyed his, his body at that point ⁓ But he was Roy I love that he ⁓ challenged He saw a challenge he ran at that shit He's been doing this for, ⁓ I think before I was born. He's been fighting and helping people. And there's countless people that he's helped out to. So I give a lot of credit for that one ⁓ because... Sarah: A long long... Wow. All Yep. I was going to say he's instilled a lot of that in you. yeah, it's you're like an extension of he approaches things in life. Yeah. Rich Stephenson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. I always tell him, yeah, yeah, I always tell him, yeah, I always give the credit where it's due, you know, and the same with Gennaro. Sarah: Mm. Rich Stephenson: He got beat and I actually was on a boat coming back from Iraq the last time Didn't see the fight and when I was told via the satellite phone I was talking to a buddy of mine. said Roy got beat and I said you able to left hook? And he said would you see it? And I said no I just figured that'd be the punch that would catch him eventually ⁓ Sarah: Rich, talk me through how you went from West Point then USA High Performance team. How did that come about? Rich Stephenson: So another one that I didn't plan on. What I'd always said, I'd always looked up to Coach Mays and Mays was on the high performance team. I just went the first ever course that they assembled, USA Boxing assembled. was the greatest in that in that aspect to me I don't think there's been a better fighter that I've ever watched that was he was just like, yeah, you got to do it. was like, you're going to learn much because I've taught you kind of what the course is about at that time, especially. It's evolved now. But nonetheless, ⁓ went through it and it was easy. That's I met ⁓ Coach Weigel, ⁓ who another instrumental part in my path. ⁓ he was the Yeah, you know, we talked about, you know, national coaching and coaching and things like that. And I told him, said, I don't think I could ever do it without, ⁓ without, you know, at least having a national champion first. And so I'd never, you know, even thought about it and just went about my way. When I went to the silver course, I was part of the first silver course too. ⁓ actually approached me midway through the week and just said, Hey, did you put your application in for the high performance team? And I looked at him like, Sarah: Okay. Rich Stephenson: deer in a headlight says, I don't even know what you're talking about. you know, it's not, it's not come to me. Like, how do I even do that? And he was like, you should have got an email. And sure, sure, sure enough I did. Just didn't pay attention to it. I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, going about my business. And, and so, you know, he just recommended that I do that. And so I put in for it and I, you know, I got the call and interview with, with ⁓ Chad and coach Billy Walsh and, and the rest is history. You know, they took me onto the youth team and I spent a year there and then onto the elite team. Sarah: Yeah. That's awesome progress in such a short space of time in terms of like, it just goes to show the credibility in your style and how you approach things. Rich Stephenson: In between the bronze and silver course, I did... have my first national champion in Stephanie Martinez. because Chad recognized that and that's why he asked me and he was like, but I thought you said you wanted to have a national champ first. And for me, I thought, well, yeah, it's still too early. Like what the hell, I've only been coaching for a couple years. Sarah: yes. ⁓ Rich Stephenson: so when said that, that's I all right, yeah, I did say that. So I guess I should do this. And ⁓ then fast forward to interview with Billy the rest being history and joining. Sarah: did want to ask one more question from you we wrap up. What is one you wish ⁓ every fighter understood before they stepped in the ring? Rich Stephenson: That's a good one. Sarah: what in your coaching style when you leveled up, right? Because you different demands, different athletes in terms of the technical and psychological demands. They're very different. And so when you think about the club level coaching versus this high performance level, what had to change in your coaching style and approach? Rich Stephenson: Okay so you first start boxing I everybody understood that they don't know anything ⁓ about You know about the actual doing it right you can know about you know the theory of boxing and watch boxing but I wish they would just that if you've come So, and this is where maybe it's different, but ⁓ A fight's a fight. ⁓ War, ring, male, ⁓ female, a fight. Dogs, squirrels, cats, fight's a fight. The natural mechanisms are within any animal, and so I treat it differently at all. It's to amateur and pro in my philosophy towards that. to a place to learn, don't try to be the teacher if you haven't been taught yet. which is there is no difference other than right? Fundamentals fundamentals, ⁓ biomechanics biomechanics, boxing is boxing. You have to change the tempo because it's a sprint versus marathon. And so certain aspects change, but ⁓ the fundamentals don't. And the same goes for show versus national, international. that's probably the first thing is like just go the gym and don't try to know things yet, just accept that you're going and learning something new. And it's okay that it's something that we all feel we should know how to fight. When I was a fighter, a kid came in, my coach, he played a game with me, Sarah: Mm-hmm. Rich Stephenson: He teased me, hey, hey, we got this kid, we got this kid. He's tough, he's your weight. You'll see when you get here, And so then the kid proclaimed to be a street fighter, fought in jail, fought in the streets, did this, did that. And I built this guy up to be a monster in my head. So when we sparred, I was sharp as hell. I beat the hell out of this kid. told the coach after this, what'd you do that for? And he was just laughing his ass off. thought it was funny. And I just didn't. was like, man. Everybody to be ⁓ Tyson, Roy Jones, Muhammad Ali when they start. ⁓ they think they can because they've watched it enough on TV for some reason, everybody just assumes that they know ⁓ and they've seen enough and they just know what to do and they're gonna be good. ⁓ This kid looked the part, physically strong, if you don't know boxing, it's different than fighting, than just fighting, or just ⁓ fighting. ⁓ a sport you have to learn the fundamentals of, and if you don't, ⁓ yeah, and someone will teach you. And then entering a ring, I would like everyone to really, really, truthfully... Sarah: there's strategy, there's craft to it, there's a lot that... Rich Stephenson: And I have to meter that, you pull them back and say, look, like I understand it, there's more this than you realize. And that's usually the biggest challenge. understand that the result is temporary. what I mean by that is of course the result stays in history but like lost, lost, you won, won. That doesn't change unless you've cheated or something and it gets flipped. But it's temporary. gonna go back and work out again. You have to meet and that goes back to if, right? ⁓ Meet triumph and and treat those two imposters the same. They're imposters, that's the key word in that little phrase, ⁓ constructs that we build. And goes along the lines of what I told you earlier, like, who cares? yes, as know, first I hate losing with every of my body and my being, but I recognize and understand that both have to occur winning and loss. Wins and losses have to occur. And you know, if as fighters we could really... It's not that you don't care and you don't want to win. There's a detachment there. You don't have to make winning your only idol... Sarah: Well, when you give both scenarios so much power and so much control, it then controls you, right? And when you can find a disassociation between the results and know that you gave it your all and that you did your absolute best in that moment, because that's something out of your control. That decision is actually, unless you've knocked the opponent out, it's even if whatever. Rich Stephenson: Correct. Exactly. But, it's your perfect world. Sarah: validation you're seeking, can tell you, yeah, you won that fight, but on paper you didn't, right? Again, because it's subjective in moments. So yeah, I think the more that you can give it the power, Rich Stephenson: Yeah, and ⁓ probably the key. the key piece that I would wish that every fighter would not just hear from my voice, but actually understand and believe and really, because it'd take the world of pressure off his shoulders, who cares? It's like those things, like Kobe's talked a lot about this, Kobe Bryant, and about like, you're still gonna do the same thing. You're gonna go back to the gym anyway. What are you so worried about? What changes so much? So dramatic, And of course, get higher as you get better, and do matter. ⁓ And we to win everything. I want to win every fight we ever get into. I don't want to lose ever. That's so unrealistic. And that brings me to another ⁓ kind of philosophy. there has to be a counter, a counterbalance. If we won all the time, would we value the wins? We have to have loss, just like we have down for up, to let us understand that there is an opposite and that we should cherish whichever one we like and value it. Like, I love sunny days, some people love rain. But I recognize respect and in turn develop the love for rain because it makes sunny days feel so much nicer. I do that, correct. Sarah: Mm. Yeah, and you can't have one without the other, right? And like, there's lessons to be learned in both scenarios and both outcomes. And when two fighters step inside the ring, someone has to come out as labeled the loser. But it's like, you've both been champions stepping inside that ring in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. Rich Stephenson: to keep things simple but very intense, Do something simple, but do it a lot. Do it as fast as you can, as hard as you can. Be effective that way. And generally, not just boxing in life, things are better that way if you keep that kind of mentality and outlook on things. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so that's it. Like, I think just putting the perspective in the proper place would be something I wish everybody would listen to and kind of be able to grapple and understand. ⁓ Sarah: Yeah, love it. Rich, thank you so, so much for your time and ⁓ of your time for this. And I'm sure we'll see you back in future episodes Rich Stephenson: Absolutely. was a pleasure. Listen, sir, you know, it's a pleasure. I enjoy it. And like I told you, ⁓ know, this is something that I think we've discussed and I thank you, ⁓ it's ⁓ it's not easy if you see where I'm at. you could the whole time I've been ⁓ doing this under the table, ⁓ Sarah: Oh, I'm white-knuckling underneath it! Rich Stephenson: awkward it's an awkward place for me but at the same time ⁓ like when I ask you guys to face challenges ⁓ accept them and run towards them a little bit like Roy would ⁓ try to do the same too and obviously no shortage of wind out of this ⁓ Sarah: you've been kind of on a team coaching some of the best amateur fighters in the country. Can you share a couple of stories or experiences ⁓ what it's like working with those types of athletes and it made you better as a coach overall? I appreciate it even more that you took on a challenge head on and ⁓ gave us an awesome insight into ⁓ how your mind works, how coach and the brilliant experiences that built and the wonderful fighters that you've built along the way. So thank you for that. where can people find you or like what's ⁓ the best way for people listening to find you? Rich Stephenson: Um, Jesus, uh, there's a lot of them. They're, uh, they're a special bunch. Um, most of the time, you know, and, uh, even the ones that I haven't been close, you know, so close with, but have coached are special, special, special athletes. Um, you know, You know where I'll go first, you know, is with our recent, who's still an amateur, is Yosaline Perez. You know, just a tremendous athlete, tremendous student of boxing. you know, it's, it's, it's many so breathingboxing.com is website but much boxing anywhere and it's one word that I can use for all of them, Dedrick, Amir, Patrick, ⁓ ⁓ you know, and freaking many more. I can just list the teams because the kids on the teams are, and I say but yeah, they're young men and women. But yeah, that's the easiest way to reach out. Yeah, it's like dealing with X-Men and being, his name, the doctor, right, Professor X or what have you. ⁓ deal with them, they're all different. The one thing ⁓ that did notice, have noticed all of them their mentality is very different than the majority ⁓ of kids ⁓ club level. this is where you start seeing the consistencies in the character, right? Sarah: Right. Rich Stephenson: These are workaholics in large part. Some of them are physically gifted and get by with a little of that ⁓ along hard work. Every one of them works their butt off. Some work harder than others. They really don't view what most people view as ⁓ a sacrifice. don't view it as a sacrifice. It's a choice that they ⁓ just because they know ⁓ they ⁓ to great. ⁓ And order to be great, they recognize that. ⁓ They have to be different. They have to miss things. They don't get to live the normal life that ⁓ people ⁓ And I that is ⁓ a part identifier when you think about the character. Sarah: Yeah. ⁓ So would you say that that's kind of what separates athletes who survive that level from the ones who don't in terms of that level of commitment? Yeah. Rich Stephenson: In large Hard work is definitely one of them that can't be substituted. So I can tell a lot about a fighter once they start telling me why they're missing practice. That's when I kind of learn a lot more about it. Yeah, mean, and I look at like, hey, I got this event or this going on. And then I think back to like Dedrick Crocklin. Sarah: where you know where their priorities are. Yeah, yeah. Rich Stephenson: Asking me and coach Chad if he could ⁓ his birthday gift, which was a Sunday, which is a day that you know at high performance ⁓ take off its rest. You have to rest that body his birthday ask was can he do eight rounds on the bag by himself and we granted it and I went down and as soon as I walked in the gym I could hear the intensity that he was working his eight rounds at and so when I hear someone say I have this or that I go back to to dad trick and I go yeah maybe you're not going to be what he is and what he'll become and that's okay. Sarah: I don't know. I'm always, I'm a similar mindset when it's the day of like when you're celebrating your birthday, it's like I want to do the things that I love the most. And it's like, I'll always start my birthday with boxing. And if I can spar even better, like without doubt. Yeah. Rich Stephenson: Yeah, yeah, and this is why you know what I've told you ⁓ and and I'll tell you on your show You know ⁓ your 40 and you're competing with ⁓ year olds This you're 40. It's okay. It's alright. We don't need to run from it but You're with with with people you know that that are that are young men, ⁓ you know in case women that Sarah: 39! Rich Stephenson: Your dedication shows you would have absolutely zero chance to be in the ring where you've been and be where you are in Ireland right now. Had you not had the work ethic that you have, it just wouldn't be a thing that you could do. And so that's why I always tell you, if you started boxing at a younger age, you'd probably be a champion by now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no doubt in my mind. That's okay. Sarah: You know, maybe I were a champion. Well, in another lifetime, in another lifetime. But when it comes to women's amateur boxing specifically, obviously you've been through many different iterations of that. What have you seen evolve and would you see that the talent pipeline is stronger now than when you ⁓ started? Rich Stephenson: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, look at Christy Martin and Katie Taylor. Let's, let's be honest. Christy was a serious pioneer. I was a little boy watching her and, uh, and what a tough woman. And I've met her and had the, had the, um, the opportunity to speak with her quite a few times and just a tremendous human that endured. I hate to say it, but male males, I guess, um, you know, uh, both on a personal level and in the sport, but, um, We can't compare her skill and I don't think she would argue like Katie's, Clarissa's, the women that are fighting today. So yes, the sport evolved immensely ⁓ in pretty short period of time. And that's where the sadness is, is that the sport evolved but the pay didn't, the opportunities didn't ⁓ necessarily as quickly and as rapidly. But they are, I have hope and think that ⁓ more and more, we're gonna ⁓ that occur what extent, ⁓ we'll see. Sarah: Totally, yeah. Rich Stephenson: I don't think any of us can predict. Sarah: We'll see, we'll see. You know my thoughts on this. I do wanna talk a little bit about a coach and fighter and the relationship itself. I would to hear a little bit on what do you think makes a coach and fighter relationship actually Rich Stephenson: I think the key in any relationship anywhere ⁓ in ⁓ any ⁓ know, faucet of society is communication ⁓ and communication has to click. you know when I say something and you know this is something where I can easily say like you know been ⁓ blessing for me is with Amir, ⁓ with Yosaline with a Dedrick, Chadha, you know you top to fighters that Stephanie that I with ⁓ they they simply can understand I'm trying to tell them. Now It isn't a knock on any other fighter that can't. There's different communication styles, different methods. There's many ways to communicate ⁓ verbal, physically. a lot of ways to communicate and people things differently. So I do think there has to be a click ⁓ of an understanding and capability understand and communicate. what bringing to now like James Gentile, in such a short time, how did he turn around so much? ⁓ Well, he listens ⁓ things click. And he told me, the reason he asked to come work me was that I told him, I a couple things like boxing when we were... ⁓ at a nationals and ⁓ it clicked, said. He just understood it and got it. Sarah: Mm. Rich Stephenson: And you know, I think what produces an in the way, but also the long term stuff is you've got to understand it. Yosaline is the same way. I tell her stuff, ⁓ just click. just gets it. And now we're at the point where she tells me that I'm thinking about it and I recognize and I go, holy shit, good, awesome. You know, she just gets, you know, ⁓ the way I'm looking the sport and it's an amazing thing that, you know, that's able to happen. And then she'll go and say like hey, my dad said the same thing. So like we're kind of all in this like synergy, know, we're all ⁓ of seeing things the same way seeing what she can do and and just viewing it the same way and ⁓ think it helps a lot ⁓ Sarah: Yep. Yeah. it's almost like in through those moments of interaction and coaching, you're building trust, right? Because I think communication is key, but it's also the trust in, I'm trusting your coaching approach me ⁓ and of where you can take me next. I want to spend a little bit of time ⁓ on that's ⁓ core what this platform is about. Obviously being named between the rounds. And for me, experiences ⁓ through your coaching, one of the best people I know at using those 60 seconds. ⁓ So I'd love spend some time breaking that down. ⁓ Can you walk through what happens when the bell rings and a fighter comes back to the corner? What's the process in those 60 seconds for you? Rich Stephenson: So it's simple for me, and again, keep things simple I think is good, but I want the fighter to breathe in their nose out of their mouth. I want them to relieve their central nervous system. 60 seconds is a long time. People don't realize how long it is, I think. Sarah: It is when you train your fighters to recover within 30 seconds. you realize you're like, wow, ⁓ this is great. I'm ready to go before the 10 second bell is, ⁓ you the warning bell comes up. Rich Stephenson: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, and this is, goes into what the show is about to the preparation. Preparation matters more than people, I think, want to credit to, and credence to, but preparation matters a ton. 60 seconds is a long time, especially if you're preparing properly for the bout. at the same time, breathe, calm down, because you're not hearing me. you're already excited, there's an adrenaline, again, it's an innate thing. Nobody can control. their adrenaline. Some have more than others. You know, and so you gotta calm down. ⁓ fighters are calm and can listen, you know, even if they're huffing and puffing, they can hear you and you know it. ⁓ a lot of fighters can't. They're kind of lost and you look into their eyes and I try to do that. I'm also, ⁓ the seconds I'm done with a breathe, I'm trying to analyze ⁓ face. you know, I see things that I'm always watching being a cut man, I'm constantly watching the face to see what's happened, was there swelling, there blood, there cut, you know, what's going on. Then I need to see it up close. So as I'm telling you, breathe, I'm looking into your eyes, I'm looking at your face, I'm analyzing really quickly, what am I dealing with, what's going on? Sarah: Are there ever scenarios where a fighter's catching eye contact with you does that cause concern? Rich Stephenson: No, it doesn't cause concern. makes me tap them, say, And if I have to, I'll touch the side of the head and just say, look at me. Because I need to see it. I need to see your pupils. I'm also looking to see if there's dilation and any difference in the size of the pupil. So it's a split second, but I got to see it. It makes me feel comfortable because I know, hey, if they're walking out a little bit and they're different, they maybe can cuss. And that can happen, and we don't realize it. It can be the slightest shot that can just You know mess the brain up a little bit. I need to see that know so that's one of the things I do and so even now we're dissecting 60 seconds and takes a long time because it is a long time you know so Next is just ⁓ know I give them ⁓ my personal style is let them know like hey you got that one ⁓ or We probably have split or you let that one go. I don't like hiding it. ⁓ don't like playing games I don't like lying and telling them you got it when you didn't or vice versa. Again, I'm pragmatic and that may not work for everybody. And again, this is how we learn if I'm the coach for you or if you're the fighter for me. But ⁓ that's I'll do is let them know what I feel. Sarah: your tone shift whether they're winning versus losing? Rich Stephenson: mean, only time is if... Because I obviously don't have a great yelling voice, but I'll yell if I know the fighter can handle it. Because it's a personality thing. If I know that the fighter can respond. Like you see, everybody goes to the Teddy Atlas Tim Bradley against Brandon Rios where we're firemen. We put the fire out. You can see in Tim's eyes live, watching on TV. But in the moment, I was like, holy shit, he got a response. Because I could see Tim and his eyes fucking ⁓ lit ⁓ him right in the eyes and I got to go, okay coach. And can see him building. And as a kind of person, Timothy Bradley is that way. He thrives, I think, when he's up there, when he's got something to be high energy about. And sure as hell, he got Brandon out there, ⁓ think that round or the round after. I it was that round, but there are that can take that. When I work with Isaac, with Isaac Parker. doing his national stuff. He lets me yell at him and he often needs it because sometimes maybe he's not locked in or something's going on and he's just not giving the effort that I know he has and he can give and I'll yell at him and he'll go like, okay, and he'll look me in eye and say, okay, he'll go out there and perform and he's done it. I think I've worked six or seven fights with him and Yeah, it's been a couple times already where I get that response and he goes and stops his opponent, you know. Sarah: Right. I was going to ask you there been moments where what you've said specifically between rounds completely changed the outcome of a fight? Rich Stephenson: ⁓ I would say what I said led a fighter to do that. ⁓ You all have to do it yourselves. So I don't want to say that I did it, but ⁓ the tandem relationship, yeah, yeah, that's definitely occurred on ⁓ quite few occasions. Dedrick, ⁓ with his tag to him being robbed in the youth. You know games in Spain, know if I mentioned India to him in between rounds He's gonna go out there and ⁓ he's and the first time I did it, you know ⁓ coach Jason ⁓ ⁓ says home coach head coach Practically had to him until I'm sit down because he wanted to get up before like there's probably 20 30 seconds left and you know, but I told him I said he's after with India and he just passed so ⁓ he tried to up and just go like he wanted to get after them and he got up Sarah: All Yeah. Rich Stephenson: and he did, was fighting Johnny Mansell, he another talented, tremendous fighter, and Dedric went out there and much dominated him. ⁓ mean, it's trying to use the emotional tag. I knew ⁓ just happened. Dedric's the kind of person that you can tell something like that, too, he's gonna get up and he's gonna challenge the challenge. know, Dedric, and a of fighters don't do that. Sarah: That's awesome. That's awesome. Rich Stephenson: They don't challenge the challenge. They just try to get through it. They're a little more timid about it. know, Dedrick is, and that's like Roy Jones. That's one of the things I loved about Roy was. Sarah: and Rich Stephenson: He was mean. He wanted to go 1000 % into a challenge. If you mention his name the wrong way and said it improperly something, he'll, let's go, let's go fight. It's a type of personality and not everybody can have it and it's okay. Doesn't mean that you're gonna be the best because you have it or you're gonna be the worst because you don't. In fact, I think it's just another aspect. But yeah, I think you have to know. And so those are the only times. I will you know change demeanor as if I think that it's necessary at the moment, but it's usually a calculated thing It's not off the cuff But we can go ⁓ look at like two greats for an example that are polarizing the opposite and come from the similar tutelage Because they're both Eddie fudge is a manual Stewart and and Freddie Roach Manny had a very loud ⁓ very strong voice and at Tommy and yell at Vladimir Klitschko. I remember Sarah: And. Mm-hmm. Rich Stephenson: him he'd constantly, Vlad, this is not going to be good. If you don't knock this motherfucker out, this is not going to be good. And pardon the French, but that's how he's, know, man he would let the bombs go in the corner all day. But he'd get his results. And then Freddie is calm and quiet and has a voice that's lower. And so he just talks calm and quiet and still gets the results, right? You know, so it's the same, like there's a necessity if the moment calls with the right personality type that's in the ring. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Rich Stephenson: And so that's how I try to approach that. But generally, I'm ⁓ in character, which is the character of myself as a human, as being me in the corner. Sarah: Yeah. you mentioned a fighter not being to hear you, obviously adrenaline is spiking, fatigue is setting in, the crowd is loud, ⁓ you know, your voice is a lot more calmer. do you tend to break through? I know you've an amazing number system. Is that kind of where, you know, there's little things that you can give cues to, to kind of overcome some of those moments or how have you been able to kind of work through that? Rich Stephenson: It's a little of a lot, guess. Number system is necessary so that I can ⁓ It's also something that ⁓ brought because we have a couple foreign kids who spoke little English But yeah he understands those numbers so much simpler. So that's why I did that. that And then, ⁓ and finally, most important thing, I believe ⁓ in better than ⁓ than me telling you in the corner. If I can you understand my philosophy, understand what I would want, understand ⁓ I believe and the way that I view the sport, the I can do that, then the less I have to say from the sidelines. mean, ⁓ that's. Sarah: And then the fighters never truly alone, because I've definitely been in moments where, You can't hear a coach's voice ⁓ and you're trying, ⁓ I used to go into a state of like, I'm alone and now I have to figure this out. like, no, you should be operating at that level where you're perfectly okay on your own, or at least trying to figure out what's right in front of and going back to the philosophies that you've been taught. Rich Stephenson: Yeah. Yeah, and that's the idea. I got a lot of that from Phil Jackson, watching him growing up, and as much as I hated him because he led the Bulls to beat the Knicks all the time. I definitely recognize his calm and he'd said is something I'll paraphrase, but it's also an energy thing. If I'm jumping around screaming and saying all this stuff, ⁓ processing, whether you like it or not. If you hear me, your brain's processing, so you're utilizing processing power to understand what I'm saying while trying to engage in battle. And that isn't always advantageous. There's some coaches that do a great job and again, they click. I don't have to fill their brain with a whole lot of talk because I do think that can be, again, ⁓ in my experience me that can be ⁓ detrimental Sarah: you can only process a certain amount of information, you know, in such a high intensity moment and a high intensity of exchange. I do want to end on some fun stuff. one of the things I love about working with you is your mind in this sport and you carry decades of fights in your head, everything from styles and strategies and outcomes, a full encyclopedia. It's like, Ritchie could call fight. does that come from? And so like, when did you start studying fights and was there a fight that made you obsessive about boxing overall?