Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Why Your Wife Hates Your Politics And What To Do About It

Transcript

Why Your Wife Hates Your Politics And What To Do About It · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:06
  Hi everyone, and welcome to the doctors psych mom show today.
• 0:09
  We are going to be talking about an issue that I increasingly see
• 0:12
  in my couples which is when your wife hates your politics, but
• 0:17
  before we dive into that, I want to tell you to subscribe.
• 0:21
  I just recorded a good episode. That's subscriber only about
• 0:24
  when men think that their wives are out of their league and what
• 0:28
  that really says about the man and about the relationship and
• 0:31
  ways to reframe this, and that can be very useful.
• 0:34
  Full as an add-on to obviously the attachment Theory podcast
• 0:39
  because men with preoccupied, attachment struggle with this
• 0:42
  issue, a lot. I've seen this repeatedly in the
• 0:46
  session, so please do subscribe. And then separately, of course,
• 0:50
  do join my Facebook group as well, which you don't get the
• 0:53
  podcast for free, but you can talk to like-minded people.
• 0:56
  We just had an interesting Thread about what constitutes a
• 1:00
  quickie, so anything like that is going to be more in my Group
• 1:05
  than on my main page, because it's private and people can't
• 1:07
  see what you write. So anyhow, moving on to this
• 1:10
  political episode. It's not really political as
• 1:13
  you'll see, but I want to speak to this idea that people need to
• 1:19
  be politically aligned in order to have a good relationship.
• 1:23
  Now, this is very recent, you know I mean there is a book I
• 1:26
  read. I think it's called why we're so
• 1:28
  polarized by Ezra Klein maybe and it talks about How in recent
• 1:37
  years, this has become your political party.
• 1:40
  Affiliation has been something that is more representative of
• 1:45
  your character than anything else.
• 1:46
  And people on dating websites will not even swipe right on
• 1:50
  somebody who is a different political party.
• 1:52
  And this did not used to be the case that you should be
• 1:54
  considered one facet of your character.
• 1:56
  And now it is considered the whole of your character and
• 2:00
  possibly, honestly, in the way that religion used to be,
• 2:03
  although I can't remember whether he made that, A point or
• 2:05
  not or if I did. But so, you know, people didn't
• 2:10
  obviously used to want to date outside of their religion or
• 2:12
  their race and now it's their political party.
• 2:14
  So, you know, shift fads change in this, in terms of what is the
• 2:19
  uniting principle and so obviously people can, you know,
• 2:24
  date who they want. And if you would like only to
• 2:26
  swipe right on people of your same political party.
• 2:28
  That's cool. But what about couples?
• 2:31
  Where their politics have progressively?
• 2:35
  No pun intended, gotten more Divergent over time.
• 2:39
  Such that. In fact, the woman is frequently
• 2:41
  more of a progressive liberal and the man is more Centrist at
• 2:45
  best, or even maybe in fact a liberal, but just not as
• 2:49
  Progressive as the wife such even think that he's
• 2:51
  conservative compared to her or he's an actual God forbid
• 2:55
  conservative and then really the shit hits the fan.
• 2:58
  So so obviously, I am not. I was just Okay, I don't give a
• 3:05
  shit about people's politics and I'm fact, I written a post that
• 3:09
  says therapist. Shouldn't your therapist should
• 3:10
  not look down on your politics, which I wrote after too many
• 3:13
  people on the list serves that. I'm a part of were like, I can't
• 3:17
  work with this person. They're triggering me because
• 3:19
  they are not identified with my politics and this happened a lot
• 3:23
  in the Trump years. And in fact, in the Trump years,
• 3:26
  there were a lot of women who came in and they were literally,
• 3:29
  like, in the post that I linked to, like.
• 3:31
  I lost respect for my husband, because he voted for Trump.
• 3:35
  And so, and it doesn't have to be even this could be
• 3:38
  libertarian. Women don't seem to like
• 3:39
  libertarian much. I know there's a lot of women
• 3:41
  who are libertarian. That's cool.
• 3:43
  Like, I probably lean that way. I mean, but it doesn't matter
• 3:47
  like for the sake of what we're talking about here.
• 3:50
  It's just a different political party and even more for the sake
• 3:55
  of reality is usually that the man is more conservative than
• 3:58
  the woman. So, let's first unpack.
• 4:01
  Why do I see this as a dynamic and Nod, for example, The
• 4:04
  inverse of progressive men coupled with conservative women
• 4:07
  because generally, and this is what I'm I really want to drive
• 4:12
  home here so that you can better understand this situation.
• 4:15
  If you are in a marriage, like, this women are equating being
• 4:19
  more liberal with caring more about people.
• 4:21
  And so, if your wife has already been triggered by you being on a
• 4:25
  thick, in various regards, not caring about her.
• 4:29
  The kids. What have you?
• 4:31
  And if to be honest, you really aren't the best with emotions.
• 4:35
  You know, as many men will readily admit, you know, when
• 4:38
  they are directly asked that they're not, then she is
• 4:41
  possibly doing some sort of reverse.
• 4:43
  Halo effect here of equating your politics with why you can
• 4:48
  be an asshole. So, then your politics turn into
• 4:51
  why you're an asshole, but she's not really fighting about your
• 4:54
  politics. She's really fighting about why
• 4:56
  she thinks that you could be a nun, empathic asshole that
• 4:59
  cannot possibly understand the perspective of a human being,
• 5:02
  who cares about others. Now, if you think, That that is
• 5:05
  dramatic and crazy. Then you should go back to my
• 5:07
  mr. Perfect.
• 5:08
  And his crazy wife podcast because you probably say shit
• 5:10
  like that. So she probably says to you.
• 5:12
  Oh my God, I can't even believe that you wouldn't vote for
• 5:16
  so-and-so because do you know that so-and-so did such-and-such
• 5:19
  and you're like listen, there's more issues on the table.
• 5:22
  There's also, you know the tax issue and there's also the this
• 5:26
  issue and the you know about this law, do you know about
• 5:28
  this? And I really think that we're
• 5:29
  not that dissimilar when you stop to think about it.
• 5:32
  Well, how has this gone for you is gone.
• 5:34
  Garbage, right? Because if we, if I want to
• 5:37
  solve for for endlessly, you can also go back to my devil's
• 5:40
  advocate podcast. Because that's basically saying
• 5:43
  that when you try to talk to somebody who's feeling emotional
• 5:46
  from a very cognitive rational place you are going to not
• 5:51
  succeed and you're going to push that person even farther away
• 5:54
  which is what happens when men play Devil's Advocate with their
• 5:56
  wives. So what your wife is saying to
• 5:59
  you, when she wants you to be more liberal, is I want you to
• 6:03
  act like you give a shit more. About me and our children and
• 6:06
  she's always concerned about the world that our children are
• 6:08
  growing up in and are they going to have various, you know, good
• 6:13
  things in their life in the future and what about the next
• 6:17
  Generations? Etc?
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  Which honestly you may be thinking the same thing from
• 6:20
  your perspective but somehow she is attributing the things that
• 6:24
  you say to being extremely self-interested and the things
• 6:27
  that she thinks to being more of a globally concerned citizen.
• 6:30
  So she's thinking this is one more example of how you Always
• 6:35
  thinking about yourself and your bottom line.
• 6:37
  I don't think there's one person listening in this Dynamic, that
• 6:40
  does not know on some level that this is true.
• 6:42
  And that this is what underlies, the endless conflict about these
• 6:47
  issues. So how can you move forward with
• 6:51
  kind of understanding what she's really upset about.
• 6:54
  First of all, maybe try to be less of an asshole because if
• 6:57
  you are in this situation, it is likely that you have not stopped
• 7:01
  at empathize with her position. Ever.
• 7:03
  You are have done the devil. As Advocate thing and then you
• 7:06
  have brought out your endless. Litany of facts.
• 7:09
  And for every fact she says, you got another fact that she says,
• 7:12
  fact, you say fact and then Nobody ends up any happier.
• 7:16
  In fact, that's not true. Sometimes the man think so,
• 7:18
  we're having a pretty rousing debate here and then she's like,
• 7:21
  sleep on the couch, I hate you, you are terrible, and then he
• 7:24
  realizes, it wasn't such a rousing debate after all.
• 7:27
  And in fact, it was a terrible thing in her life that is a
• 7:30
  catastrophe and he was getting all into it and thinking that
• 7:34
  Having like is a logical argument and this back and forth
• 7:38
  is so exciting. It's not exciting.
• 7:40
  She was getting increasingly upset and feeling like she
• 7:43
  married the wrong person. So the first thing that you
• 7:45
  should do, you're always trying to get her to understand your
• 7:48
  opinion on politics. You've not understood hers be
• 7:52
  and I'll promise you that. The only way that you have is
• 7:54
  you could be like, well that's a point.
• 7:56
  But have you heard of this point does not called empathy what
• 8:00
  empathy is when she says. But what about the little
• 8:03
  children or the Vulnerable these people or the vulnerable, those
• 8:06
  people. You say something that actually
• 8:09
  means that you give a shit. So you would say I'm so sorry,
• 8:14
  you know, that you're upset about those.
• 8:15
  People. It means that you're a sweet
• 8:17
  person. I love that you care.
• 8:19
  So much about people. I really understand your point.
• 8:22
  It's a good point. Remember again.
• 8:25
  I have a podcast on that called the two best words to say to
• 8:29
  your wife or whatever and they're good point.
• 8:33
  So if you say goodbye, Enough, your wife is going to calm down
• 8:37
  and stop thinking that all you care about is yourself and your
• 8:39
  perspective. Because if you think about it,
• 8:41
  you probably not have have not validated what she thinks.
• 8:44
  Also. Another thing to remember, is
• 8:46
  that women in this situation frequently, feel that their
• 8:48
  husbands, think that your big idiots that they, the wives are
• 8:51
  big idiots that do not understand politics.
• 8:54
  So, then they go further and further down the rabbit hole of
• 8:56
  coming out with all these details to convince you, that
• 8:59
  you are wrong and that they are right.
• 9:02
  But what they are really trying to convince you is that That you
• 9:06
  need to think of them as a smart person and of course, you need
• 9:10
  to think of them as a smart person.
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  You wouldn't have married them if they were an idiot.
• 9:13
  And obviously you're doing something wrong.
• 9:15
  If they think that, you think that they are an idiot and
• 9:17
  probably what you're doing wrong is your endless parade of fact
• 9:21
  rebuttals such that she thinks that you are just trying to out.
• 9:24
  They current show how smart you are all the time and not really
• 9:27
  hearing her. If you remember I've said
• 9:29
  frequently that John gottman's research.
• 9:31
  He's a marital researcher shows that the biggest That makes
• 9:35
  women feel good about marriage. The most important thing in
• 9:37
  ensuring that they feel happy is, whether they feel that their
• 9:40
  husband except influence. Do you accept influence?
• 9:45
  Because you could have had the same political debate for years
• 9:48
  at, if you would have just said, good point.
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  I didn't think of it like that. Your entire marriage could be a
• 9:53
  thousand times better. If you had just drop that in
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  every so often. Because honestly, have you
• 9:58
  really thought about every single thing?
• 10:00
  She said, probably not. If you think yes, you're
• 10:03
  probably a narcissist. I mean who can think of every
• 10:06
  single thing that another person says.
• 10:08
  So that's obviously wrong and cocky to think that way.
• 10:12
  So likely you have been under estimating the amount that you
• 10:15
  actually validate your wife's intelligence and her caring
• 10:19
  about the world. These are the two things that
• 10:21
  she wants you to say. And those will calm her down
• 10:24
  because in reality, no woman wants to get divorced over
• 10:27
  differences, in political opinion.
• 10:28
  What they do want to get divorced about in as much as
• 10:31
  anyone wants to get divorced about anything which is low, but
• 10:34
  still What they will get divorced about is if their
• 10:37
  husband condescends to them and thinks that they're an idiot.
• 10:40
  And isn't on empathic asshole, these are things that do Drive
• 10:45
  women to divorce. So what you want to say is I
• 10:47
  understand your perspective. I understand that you care
• 10:50
  deeply about these issues. And in fact, it is what drew me
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  to you. Which is God knows true.
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  Because if you are such a rational man that stays in the
• 10:58
  world of the in Delight, I am sure that your wife's
• 11:01
  emotionality and sweetness. And the fact that you Cares so
• 11:05
  much about all the living vulnerable things did draw you
• 11:08
  to her and in fact makes her a good mother.
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  So that's something else that you could say.
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  The fact that you care so much about the world makes you a good
• 11:14
  mother. And I'm glad that you are so
• 11:17
  kind and think so deeply about these things and feel so deeply.
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  I it's something that I can't really do.
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  I think more about things on this cognitive level and you
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  made a good point about blah blah blah, whatever the issue of
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  the moment is. So in reality, this Political
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  differences are really a manifestation of broader issues
• 11:39
  that underlie the relationship as a whole.
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  In this case. It's that she does not feel that
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  you take her. Seriously.
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  She does not feel that you respect her and she does not
• 11:50
  think that you have feelings at all sometimes.
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  So it's like the same women that have these issues are the women
• 11:57
  in the, the wife who wants more and her annoyingly satisfied
• 12:01
  husband. Another podcast that I did in
• 12:04
  the cup. As you meet in counseling
• 12:05
  Series. So women who feel like their
• 12:08
  husbands don't think about things.
• 12:10
  Deeply are likely to get divorced from what I see in
• 12:13
  today's culture. So the other thing you got to
• 12:16
  realize is that all day, your wife is on social media, you
• 12:19
  know, I'm not saying she's just on social media, but frequently,
• 12:22
  your wife goes to social media, sorts of, you know, boards and
• 12:27
  rooms and groups that amplify her position.
• 12:30
  So she is in an echo chamber. You yourself may be in your own
• 12:34
  conceits. A bit of echo chamber.
• 12:36
  And then when you get back to each other, this certainly does
• 12:39
  not make it go better to talk to somebody with a different
• 12:42
  opinion. You almost forget that such
• 12:44
  people actually exist in the world.
• 12:47
  So when your wife is confronted with your same politics that you
• 12:51
  took as like just a matter, of course, a few years ago, after
• 12:55
  many years of interacting with others, in real time, she now
• 12:59
  has, you know, people have been on her side, so much that She
• 13:04
  feels stronger and she feels that you're stupider and she
• 13:08
  feels that you are more wrong. So, another thing that people
• 13:12
  can do, if they really want to work on their marriage and
• 13:14
  they're in this situation is something that is good for
• 13:17
  anybody's mental health, which is to limit the amount of time
• 13:20
  you spend consuming endless media about politics.
• 13:24
  I had to work on this with a lot of people in the 2016 election
• 13:28
  because if you're spending hours and hours getting angry about
• 13:33
  things going, Can forth talking about being a year, if you'd
• 13:36
  like to volunteer if you'd like to donate your time, etcetera.
• 13:39
  Good. But just sitting and doom
• 13:41
  scrolling about political issues that is not good for anyone.
• 13:46
  Many, many women, struggle with anxiety, this is terrible for
• 13:50
  anxiety. And if in any sort of group, you
• 13:55
  know, in-group out-group, bias, from whatever, social Psych
• 13:57
  class, you may have taken. If you were in a group, you
• 14:00
  start to look at any other group as worse and different and And
• 14:04
  you amplify the differences and minimize these similarities
• 14:08
  between that group and you are group, which is what very much
• 14:11
  happens in this polarization that we see today within
• 14:14
  marriage has a lot of this is due to the fact that one side,
• 14:19
  usually the female side just gets obsessed with how with what
• 14:23
  these political differences mean about the couple and what they
• 14:27
  are and what they really represent.
• 14:29
  The men are fine. I've never yet.
• 14:31
  Had a man come in and say my wife is too liberal.
• 14:34
  Got to leave her because she's such a monster and in the very
• 14:38
  few cases that I see. But I still do see where the
• 14:40
  woman is more conservative than the man.
• 14:42
  The man still doesn't say anything.
• 14:44
  He doesn't care. He thinks that it's a
• 14:45
  difference. Like, how they like different
• 14:47
  Hobbies, like how they have different friends, like how they
• 14:49
  have different careers. They're just different.
• 14:51
  Okay, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he
• 14:54
  loves her with women. It does because of the issues
• 14:57
  that I have delineating. They feel that it is a proxy
• 15:00
  variable for when the were whether the man respects them.
• 15:03
  And whether the man has a Empathy or even a soul.
• 15:06
  So the ways to deal with this. If you are a man or to focus on
• 15:10
  the empathy, the respect and the soul, and to come forth in a way
• 15:15
  that is validating of at least some aspects of the woman's
• 15:19
  points and her experiences that underlie those points.
• 15:23
  And, and that usually makes a profound difference in the
• 15:27
  ability of the couple to navigate these political
• 15:30
  differences when there is increased empathy.
• 15:32
  Now, the women on their side Ought to think this is the same
• 15:36
  man. I know and love he's good with
• 15:38
  the children. He's generally tries to be good
• 15:40
  with me. He's not mr.
• 15:41
  Emotional, but he's not a monster.
• 15:44
  And perhaps, there are some things that I am doing to rile
• 15:47
  myself up and up, and up, and up over this that may have to do
• 15:51
  with my own feelings of helplessness and anxiety, and
• 15:54
  not only in the political climate, but in my life, in
• 15:57
  general, or within the relationship, and I need to
• 16:00
  parse out what aspects of this political difference are really
• 16:04
  dealing. Or Breakers or if my husband
• 16:06
  were to be more empathic and understanding and to be
• 16:09
  validating and respectful. Would I be able to show of these
• 16:13
  and just say alright, he believes in you know less taxes
• 16:16
  than I do or I or frame it in a way that is not very dramatic
• 16:23
  and that does not indicate that. There is some deep level of
• 16:27
  dysfunction, which there may not be.
• 16:30
  It may be a more classic issue of one of the mr.
• 16:33
  Perfect goodness. Easy wife or the wife who wants
• 16:36
  more in her annoyingly, satisfied husband, or one of
• 16:39
  these issues that could be remediated with increased
• 16:43
  empathy and understanding. So if this resonated with you,
• 16:46
  then you can listen to it with your partner or you could
• 16:49
  honestly, if you feel like it's going to be a crazy hot button
• 16:52
  issue. Maybe you could just try as
• 16:55
  either partner, especially the man, because that's who I
• 16:58
  directed the majority of this to, to try to do some of the
• 17:01
  things that I'm saying. So in the next political, Action
• 17:04
  instead of saying? Yeah.
• 17:05
  Well, what about this which is some bullshit Devil's Advocate
• 17:08
  stuff that she's not gonna like no matter what the topic is you
• 17:11
  could say, that's a good point and it's because you feel deeply
• 17:15
  about things like that, that I was originally thought that you
• 17:18
  were such a sweet person and that you would one day be a good
• 17:21
  wife to me and see if she doesn't fall down in shock
• 17:24
  because she probably will. And she will probably say well,
• 17:28
  wow, I mean, yeah, but I mean like why do you say that?
• 17:32
  And then you could say, because I'm trying to think This
• 17:34
  different, you know, I'm trying to think about this situation
• 17:37
  differently. We fight about the same things
• 17:39
  all the time. I respect your intelligence, I
• 17:41
  love you. There must be some way that I'm
• 17:43
  communicating wrong, you know, because I can't just change my
• 17:46
  Politics on a dime. Although I'm open to saying that
• 17:50
  you have a point. Maybe, I haven't been open
• 17:52
  enough to saying when you have a good point because I get so into
• 17:54
  the debate, which I'm trying to realize.
• 17:56
  Now, you probably don't think it's as fun as I think it is.
• 17:59
  In fact, you probably think it's terrible and that would be the
• 18:02
  sort of conversation. That couples have that could
• 18:06
  actually bring them closer and make them feel like their
• 18:10
  marriage was able to survive and power through a difficult
• 18:17
  sensitive issue. And that they don't just have to
• 18:19
  be trapped in the same dysfunctional Dynamic day in and
• 18:23
  day out over the exact same issues than that.
• 18:26
  Sort of hopeless. Helpless feeling is what leads
• 18:28
  to divorce in many couples. All right, so if you found this
• 18:31
  useful, please do subscribe. Ivan do try the things that I
• 18:35
  tell you to do, and I hope that everybody has a great day, and I
• 18:40
  will talk to you all soon.