Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Birdnesting After Divorce

Transcript

Birdnesting After Divorce · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor psych bomb show.
• 0:09
  Today, we're going to be talking about bird nesting, after
• 0:11
  divorce, which is when parents alternate, who stays in the
• 0:16
  house and the kids stay in the main Family House, the parents
• 0:19
  just come in and out based on who has their time with the kids
• 0:25
  and I'll talk about that. But first, of course, I must
• 0:27
  tell you to subscribe the most recent subscriber only episode
• 0:31
  was on how to tactfully tell your partner that they are bad
• 0:34
  at something like cooking. Dinner or something like that.
• 0:37
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• 0:41
  outs of the different sides of that.
• 0:43
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  certainly follow me on all of my new social media platforms, like
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• 0:55
  Instagram, all of those anyway. So, moving onto bird nesting.
• 1:00
  So, I have a lot of clients who are divorcing.
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  Obviously, I've written the book.
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  As you probably know how to talk to your kids about your divorce
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  and I've personally divorced. So, therefore, I have a lot of
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  experience with divorce and so bird, nesting is relatively new.
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  I don't know, I'd say the past 10 years or so, and I had not
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  really heard about it before then not even earlier in my
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  career as a therapist may be. So it's maybe it's like less
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  than 10 years. Either way, what it is, is that
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  So there's a lot more joint custody now obviously than there
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  used to be many years ago and a lot more 50/50 splits and the
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  parents obviously want to both see the children after most
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  divorce situations. And so what bird nesting is that
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  instead of uprooting the kids to have to travel back and forth
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  between the parents homes, which many people, many adult Children
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  of Divorce. Remember a stressful or
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  difficult. Now a lot of parents especially
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  at first First, in the early stages of divorce, when the
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  children are still acclimating, they they themselves get either
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  an apartment or they stay with family or with a friend or
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  something. And so each pair and goes in and
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  out of the family home and the kids stay in the same place with
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  their same stuff and their same rooms, etc, etc.
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  And obviously, if you're thinking, this would never work
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  because you have such high level of conflict with your co-parent,
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  then certainly it would not be for you, but, This is really, it
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  works. Well for people who do not have
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  active conflict or obviously. Everybody's got to have a little
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  bit of conflict. They're divorcing, but who do
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  not have open. Hostility, let's say, who are
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  still able to get along with one another at the transition times.
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  And who of course, are both very equivalent, Lee motivated to put
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  the mental health of the kids first in the divorce.
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  And so what bird nesting is really useful when you have got
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  like Like small kids and they have their routines and they
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  have their stuff and you know we I had three kids under 10 at
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  that point under 9, I think actually and so if you have like
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  a bunch of kids and a lot of their stuff and everything, then
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  it is really difficult to. First of all, it's difficult to
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  get the room setup and the other person's home, you know, exactly
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  how it's supposed to be and everything.
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  Fast like right away. And so you need some lead time
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  and also kids need their processing that you've divorced
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  in the first place or that you are separating.
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  So they don't need like everything to change all at
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  once. So this is kind of a good setup
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  for people who can do it. If you cannot do it, it's no
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  reason to feel bad about anything.
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  It's just, you're in a more high conflict situation, or you have
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  other variables, but if you can do it and you want to Be able to
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  be flexible and to ease the children into this.
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  Another thing that it helps with is that the routines don't have
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  to change because all the stuff is the same.
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  So when the stuff is the same, the routines, kind of stay the
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  same. So like Dad, for example, may
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  not have done as much of the nighttime routine and stuff, but
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  the kids know, their nighttime routine because at their, at
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  their same house with all their same stuff and their same books
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  and their same clothes. And you know, so so like
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  whichever parent isn't used to doing something in the home.
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  The kids kind of know what to do.
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  Because they're still in their same house so that is useful and
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  anything that could give the kids agency and the feeling that
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  they have some control over their environment.
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  And that things are not just all of a sudden, completely
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  different is good. I mean, anything that makes the
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  kids feel like things are still kind of normal and that the
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  parents may be splitting up, but that they themselves do not have
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  to have an entire instant life change.
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  That is obviously positive because children are people and
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  nobody wants to have all of their You know, routines and and
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  expectations, and assumptions about the world just turned on
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  their head, you know, which is what it can feel.
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  Like if they instantly have to change their life in some major
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  way, aside from the otherwise, major change of the parents not
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  being together again if this is not something you could do,
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  there are still ways to make sure that the kids still have
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  similar routines at both houses to start, you know, and a lot of
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  their same stuff at both houses and all of that.
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  And now of course, eventually people do not burn us forever.
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  I've never known any that bird nest for more than at least like
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  around a year. I did not do it for more than a
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  year and so it's a good transition period but eventually
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  you know the other parent who's not in the family home.
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  The previous family home is going to want their own place,
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  you know, and a big enough place where they can establish their
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  own home with the kids and so this will happen sooner or later
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  but for the The interim, the bird nesting is a good idea as
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  this transition phase and I beat I just want to quickly, it's not
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  related necessarily to bird nesting, but I did just say that
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  it's good to have similar routines in the home.
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  Originally it is originally. But after that, I mean I'm the
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  first person to say that when there's conflict between the
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  divorced parents about that, the routines have to remain
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  identical at each house that that does much more harm than
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  good, as long as both parents are taking care of the children
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  and they the Healthy and happy, they do not need to have the
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  same routines at both homes. But at first, it can be very
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  useful in this transition period, because if all of a
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  sudden like bedtime is different bath, time is different.
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  Eating is different. Everything is different.
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  Obviously, again, especially based on the sensitivity of the
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  child, heigh more, highly sensitive children are going to
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  have a harder time acclimating in this way.
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  So, the entire point of bird nesting, and if you can't bird
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  nests the entire point of your behavior immediately
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  post-divorce should be to keep Keep as much similar for the
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  kids as possible and then slowly change it and you can slowly
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  change it to something really different.
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  Like so I mean a lot of people will have like totally different
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  routines. That obviously, I mean, y'all
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  got divorced for a reason you couldn't get along.
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  So I obviously don't agree with what each other wouldn't
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  necessarily want to parent like, or want to keep the house like,
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  or wouldn't do for fun or whatever.
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  But the point is, is that, at first, it's good to ease into
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  that and bird, nesting is a nice way.
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  Do that. So if you so, what are some
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  pitfalls of this? I mean, obviously if you are
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  fighting and you are like, oh my God, you left the house, a mess
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  and this. And that when you come back from
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  your weekend away, I mean, that can't work.
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  So it has to be treated as though each person is just in
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  charge of the home when they are with the kids.
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  And then there was a quick and respectful, goodbye, and then
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  that's it. And then you leave and you go to
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  your place. And this is of course Course,
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  hard, for many people who are divorcing.
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  And if it's too hard for you, then again, this isn't for you.
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  If there is any dating of other people than that, can start to
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  get weird you nose for somebody to come in and see you know, the
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  separated or ex-partner because in some places you need like a
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  year to get divorced. So this is happening during
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  separation, you know. And of course divorce can take a
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  long time based on what you're deciding but it's weird to for
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  one to come. Into the previous family home
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  and see like the new partner their you know like hanging out
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  during the bird nesting time so that can be strange and
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  sometimes people create you know sorts of agreements around that.
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  So for example like you know I will not be dating while we are
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  still bird nesting and that in and of itself is impetus for
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  many people to stop the bird nesting period because after all
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  you do divorce because you want to move on with your life, in
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  different ways, many of which include having a a partner and a
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  whole different life, you know. So, but at first, the bird
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  nesting is considered to be done as a transition time for the
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  kids where we're focusing on the kids.
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  So, in that period, a lot of people would agree to not
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  necessarily have anybody else knew come in.
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  But I mean, you know, people can agree whatever they want.
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  You know, and if people are doing bird nesting for longer
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  than a couple of months or especially longer than for a
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  year, I mean, it's very unlikely that people aren't going to be
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  dating. And so Either I can be the
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  impetus to leave and to start your new you know life with
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  another person or whatever or on your own while dating or an
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  agreement could be reworked. So that the person can be in the
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  family home you know? Or you could be in a situation
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  where it doesn't bother you honestly.
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  As long as the kids are happy and that's always the best
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  situation is to not let things bother you.
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  As long as the kids are happy. Another thing sometimes people
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  still have joint bank accounts and stuff or they use the money
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  for the kids. I mean, this can be done.
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  Of course, you're going to have to separate your finances at
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  some point. So it's also very possible to
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  just start, you know, havin your separate accounts, but split the
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  things that the children need and 50/50 or however you're
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  doing it based on salary and this is going to be something
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  that y'all work out in mediation or what have you, but you don't
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  need to like do bird nesting. Only if you can like stick Will
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  basically be a couple EG have joint finances decide, like what
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  to get each other for like groceries.
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  Now, you don't have to do that. You just use it as a time.
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  Where each of you, the important part is the house and like the
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  kids rooms of the kids, having all their stuff.
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  The important part is not, whether you guys can still kind
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  of financially, or whatever act married, you're not married.
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  And the other problem with bird nesting, when people do it, is
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  that if they hang out for too long.
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  So then like, Like, every time like dad comes back.
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  So let's say like he comes back and Sunday at 6:00 and since
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  time, and then like, they're all hanging out from like six to
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  eight or even having dinner or something, the kids get very
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  confused. They're like, what is this?
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  Are you together? You're not together so that can
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  make kids urine for the parents to get back together and it can
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  get a lot of can get them. Very confused.
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  So the best for any sort of transition time when you're
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  divorced, or when you're divorcing or Braided leading to
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  divorce is to have a quick courteous, Hellogoodbye.
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  Certainly you can say, I'm dropping this off for this.
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  Here's the Sox. Here's the book.
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  Here's Whatever. By the way, she has a cough and
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  so I gave her Tylenol at nine can you know, it can be given to
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  get a 12, whatever that stuff certainly but not like major
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  shooting the shit all hanging out as a family.
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  This stuff really like is not fair to the kids because if
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  there's no hope of reconciliation that Then why
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  give them a hope of reconciliation, those movies
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  where, you know, kids try to get their divorced parents back
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  together, our movies because that is a secret fantasy of many
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  children of divorce. So you don't have to feed that
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  Fantasy by engaging in ways that are going to be confusing.
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  And you know just very that that that seemed very ambivalent you
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  know to any onlooker about whether you even want to be
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  separated. People do this with the best of
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  intentions obviously to but to Kid, who wants the family to be
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  back together? Then this can be very confusing
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  and upsetting even when then that family time, eventually has
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  to come to an end because one parent leaves again.
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  So again to have these quick transitions is important and
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  this isn't just for bird nesting, this is just in
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  general. So even if you are in the more
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  usual situation of the children, go from house to house when you
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  drop them off. Make sure that it's courteous
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  and quick and any sort of other communication can be done via.
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  A text or via email, it certainly does not have to be
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  done in some long drawn-out conversation.
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  And this is even important when you think that the kids are too
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  young to understand. They're never really too young
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  to understand that they can be confused about shit.
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  You know, confusion starts like real young fact.
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  The younger you are. The more confused.
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  You are in a regular basis about many things, but because the
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  world doesn't yet make sense in any way.
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  So those are the overall, you know, major.
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  Point about bird nesting. If bird nesting sounds like it
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  would be appealing for you, but your partner isn't really into
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  the idea, then you can kind of ask them why?
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  So maybe if they say, well, if we're bird, nesting that I'm
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  scared that you're going to, you know, be up my ass about like
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  leaving the house clean or like something I did or didn't do, or
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  there's going to be some more surveillance in some sort of
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  way. Well, if bird nesting seems to
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  you like it would be the most important, not most important
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  but what something that's good for the kids.
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  Then you could certainly only commit to not doing that and
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  then not do that, you know, if they consent to trying it and
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  listen, I mean, you could try things like nothing has to be,
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  you know, set in stone could try bird nesting for a couple of
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  weeks. I mean, people kind of have to
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  get their footing of where they're living or anything
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  anyway, so it could be something that you try for a couple weeks
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  and then if it works you know then then you could keep going
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  and and and it's really it's good for kids, they kind of pick
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  up on it. Leave what's happening?
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  It's not the idea isn't confusing to them once it's
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  explained and again, it gives them more control over their
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  environment, over their routine, they understand always what's
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  going on, etc, etc. But you do, if you do this, have
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  to be respectful and polite about how each other is keeping
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  the house and what you're doing with the kids and all sorts of
• 14:53
  things like that. I mean they're don't do any
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  crazy shit. Like, watch the other one on
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  Nest, The Nest cam, Uh, more like whatever it has to be like
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  actually respectful and this mostly works if it's an amicable
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  divorce which obviously from everything I'm saying there's a
• 15:09
  great deal of of possibility for conflict.
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  So if you're already somebody who is engaging in conflict with
• 15:16
  your ex or soon to be ex partner that this probably would not be
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  for you. All right, so if anybody has any
• 15:22
  questions about bird nesting that are more specific, you can
• 15:25
  certainly let me know. But that is pretty much what I
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  know about it from what I did. And from what other people I've
• 15:30
  seen have done and this is becoming increasingly common
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  because as I always say we are child-centered as a society and
• 15:38
  the only way in which that is really good, is post-divorce.
• 15:42
  So child-centered divorce is much much healthier.
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  For the kids were as a children living in an intact family with
• 15:50
  a child-centered relationship, do not get to see a healthy
• 15:54
  adult relationship but in the situation when there's already a
• 15:57
  divorce and people are already stressed out, Out for them to
• 16:01
  keep being child-centered as the prevailing principle in their
• 16:05
  mind that guides their behavior is excellent.
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  And certainly healthier for the children.
• 16:10
  All right. Cool.
• 16:11
  So any other specific questions can always be asked, especially
• 16:15
  if you are in my Facebook group, where all of this interesting
• 16:18
  discussion, usually transpires and you get a lot more
• 16:20
  interaction with me. Which I don't know if that is a
• 16:23
  net positive for you but it should be and I'll talk to
• 16:26
  everybody soon. Bye, bye.