Latest / Recruiting Evolution / FDE+ | Interrupt the Pattern: The Human Side of Recruiting in an AI World with Shad Tidler - Lushin

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FDE+ | Interrupt the Pattern: The Human Side of Recruiting in an AI World with Shad Tidler - Lushin · Recruiting Evolution

• Shad Tidler [00:00:00]: The very first time, we got to interrupt the pattern, starting that off in a different way than what they're used to. They're used to getting a call from somebody that they don't know and it's a hi, how are you? And then they start to go, I don't know you. And they put the walls up. Kortney Harmon [00:00:12]: Hey, guys. Kortney Harmon, host of fde. In case you missed it, we recently hosted a live virtual event and it was one for the books. We brought together some of the best thought leaders in the recruiting and staffing industry for two full days of real, no fluff conversations. And what's actually working? Right? From building trust with clients to using AI without losing your edge, to growing revenue through relationships. These sessions were absolutely incredible and we didn't want you to miss out. So we turned every single session into its own episode. And over the coming weeks, we're dropping them one by one right here. Kortney Harmon [00:00:52]: Each episode is a standalone session from the event, so whether you're tuning in for the first time or you were there live and you want to revisit all of your favorites, there's something for you. Stay tuned. You're going, going to want to hear from every single one of our speakers, trust me. Enjoy. Well, I am so excited to have Shad here. Like I said, he's been on the podcast a couple of times and he is really going to be talking about stronger relationships with customers in a world of AI. So AI we've already heard is trying to handle much more outreach, many more follow ups, surface level communications, more than ever before. So I'm really excited to have Shad here as he does leadership consulting with Lushin and he has been in the mix helping people grow for, I believe, over 25 years. Kortney Harmon [00:01:42]: Am I right, Shad? Shad Tidler [00:01:43]: I've been at Lushin for 12, but as a company, it'll be 30 years next year that we've been. Kortney Harmon [00:01:49]: Okay, well, I made you, I made you a little bit younger. I said 20, 30. Shad Tidler [00:01:52]: I, I actually came from being a client three years prior, let's say 15 years around this stuff. Kortney Harmon [00:01:57]: So I am excited. AI is a tool without not using it. How do we use it to the best of our ability? So everybody connect with Shad on LinkedIn in the comments and thank you so much. I'm so excited to hear you talk more. Shad Tidler [00:02:10]: Absolutely. Thanks for sending up Kortney so well. Welcome everyone and sounds like we have a busy day already. And I know Ben and Brad that Kortney mentioned and, you know, so I'm sure you've had great knowledge and great stuff. So, yeah, we're gonna talk about developing strong relationships and pieces again, the way challenges, why those are and then also real life fixes we can put in place. So that was a quick overview, couple expectations is because we got a lot of people on here, we're going to use the chat. I'm going to have interactive parts where I'm going to literally ask you, okay, what are you running into and what's happening in particular? And hey, in these things, how do you handle it? Because the more you share with me and I'll try to keep up, I know the chat will get fast and furious. I'll do my best to keep up, but the more you share with me, this is the real life stuff. Shad Tidler [00:02:52]: Like I'm, you know, I try to connect with people and I'm running into this or they say this or they do this. The more you give me that, the more I'll take the concepts and tools we're talking about here and then mold it to okay, the real life stuff and how to work through it. Not just a theory. And that's a great tool, but here's how that sounds real life. And I've had some experience. Like Kortney was saying, I've been helping the staffing recruiting world for the last 10 years through clients, through ASA, through MRI network, through other clients throughout the country. And so I've got some experience, but I want to hear the real life stuff. So please, you know, I'm going to actually put things in chat. Shad Tidler [00:03:28]: You'll see it. But at the second piece there, connect with me. Horny mentioned my LinkedIn profile and there's only one Shat Tiddler. I love that you put it in there already, but you're going to find me pretty quick if you look for Shad Tiddler with Lucien. If you forget my LinkedIn link there. Also, I'm going to provide my email at the end and one other thing I'll provide in case you say, hey, this was helpful but I got some specific questions that didn't get answered because there's a lot of people here and I want to set up a time to talk with you on those questions or if you say, hey, this was helpful, I want to talk to you about how you help other like companies like ours, people like ours with this. I'm going to give you an option of how to do that, which basically be putting your information in the chat. Kortney will share with me later. Shad Tidler [00:04:07]: And that's only if you want me to be proactive. If not, I'll let you be passive and reach out on LinkedIn or by my email that I'll provide at the end. All right, so we'll get, we'll get back to that then we'll make sure to cover that at the end in case you do want to talk further or have questions. All right, So I said we're going to be interactive. Here we go. From the start. Boom. What challenges are you facing building relationships with, whether it be perspectives of brand new customers, even current customers in today's kind of technology and AI world, Right. Shad Tidler [00:04:35]: Specific challenges. Things we hear a lot of times is, hey, they're a different personality than me and how do I connect with them early? How do I get them to open up and share some of the things they're running into? Where do I kind of take that first conversation, things like that. So we'll see what's coming in here. Hopefully get a couple in coming in. So we're going to talk about why do these challenges exist, right? So why do we have some of the challenges? Like I said, some of the ones I hear a lot of times it's like, hey, how do I even get them to respond to me? How do I get there aligned with their personality type? Where do I take the conversation? How do I build a relationship over time versus just kind of the first thing we work on, right? But first thing we understand, well, why do we even get into these? Why do these even start to happen? Right? Here's some of the main reasons. The biggest thing is if we show up like everyone else, we're going to get treated like everyone else, right? I want you to think about for yourself. Think about times when you've, you've had somebody reach out to you, they're prospecting you. Let's say an example is it's like five o' clock tonight and you look down, you see your cell phones ringing and you go, it's a local number. Shad Tidler [00:05:41]: You know, I don't recognize it, but it's in my neighborhood. You know, maybe it's a customer, it's a potential customer. And then you pick up the phone and you hear pause and I click. And then you hear Mr. Or Mrs. And then they butcher your last name. Maybe like Kortney did, maybe like Kortney did is like just call me Shad instead of Shad and just season Kortney. You're being prospected, right? Somebody's reaching out to you. Shad Tidler [00:06:00]: Try to build a first conversation with you, right? Think about what do you do in that time when somebody's reaching out to you. What are things you do? Type in the chat, what are you doing somebody is trying to reach out and build a relationship initially with you. Let's get some examples. Let's see if some comes in there. Now I'm starting to see some. Just getting them return your call or email. Stacy, thank you. One of the channel. Shad Tidler [00:06:20]: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. Like, how can we get them to do that better? Right? But let's think about like right now, somebody was to reach out to you and prospect you or try to get build a relationship with you. What's your initial response to it? But here's some of the things I typically hear. You know, I hear things like people say, well, I tell them right away I'm not interested. A lot of people say, I just hang up. A lot of people say, you know, if I take a look and I see it's not, you know, somebody or it gets filled with spam, I let it go to voicemail. Sometimes people say things like, hey, I tell them, give me a call back later and I'll, I'll be available and I won't, right? So couple do. And Stacey said, hey, they need to show me something of value. Shad Tidler [00:06:58]: And Stacy, probably they don't right away. A lot of times when people are reaching out to us, they don't. It becomes a, hi, I'm going to tell you all about the great stuff that I'm doing that we do our products, our services, and I'm hoping something will stick, you know, And a lot of us said, you know, like Claudell and mem said, depends on if it's relevant to me. Right. But a lot of times it isn't. You know, the message that comes across is, hey, this is a bunch of stuff about us. It's not about that customer, potential customer. So they do a lot of the same things we do, right? We go, if what's not relevant, I just hang up or I tell them I'm not interested or tell them call back later, right? Or tell them take me off the list. Shad Tidler [00:07:36]: And the reason being, as few folks said here is we don't see the value. And it's got to start with initially is are we actually able to articulate the value of them even having a conversation with us? A lot of times what happens is when people prospect us is they show up and throw up, right? It's like they're just like, oh my God, I finally got somebody live on the, on the phone. I just want to dump as much as I can to overwhelm them and show them how great we are. And I'm Hoping that that will cause them to go, oh, my gosh, yes, I need to talk to you. Something sticks. But it actually has the opposite effect now. They're like, well, it's all about you. It's not relevant to me. Shad Tidler [00:08:10]: There's no value here. You're just trying to force or convince me of something versus trying to help, right? So, so very first thing we got, we gotta interrupt that pattern and show up different so that they start to treat us different. Now, what might that look like? Well, it might be look like and go, hey. Instead of me telling you about, like, hey, here's our services on great things we could do, which they probably have heard from whoever they work with now, who maybe told them those things, hasn't actually made those things happen or they haven't happened. How about if I show up and I go, I ask questions, go, hey, do you experience some of these challenges that you know you can help them with, right? So maybe it's like if we're talking about from a recruiting side, do you find that, like, you get a lot of resumes in a lot of applications and it's hard to sort, you know, takes time and to sort through them and figure out which ones are actually, like, good and have the experience you need and which ones don't, right? Or maybe you go, I think, you know, we've done that or gotten good what we thought was good applications. We've interview them. They sound good, but they didn't work out. Are those things you're experiencing, so now you're putting it to them about what's relevant in their world and the things they might be thinking. Shad Tidler [00:09:16]: But the whole key is we gotta show up different than everyone else from the start. And if we don't and these things are missing, we're gonna get treated like everyone else, right? So let's keep rolling from here. Why else do these challenges exist? Well, we expect others to adjust to us, right? We've got our personality, right? And we go, I expect them to be like me. I was working on this with a client of mine this morning. She said, you know, we're just getting started. She said, one of my big challenges, developing relationships early. And she goes, I'm kind of this personality, and I find it hard when people are different personalities to me. Well, here's the problem is. Shad Tidler [00:09:49]: And I. As we talked, I talked with her, is that you can't expect people to adjust to you, right? That's about you. What you need to do is understand their personality type, why that is, and then how can you adjust to them so that they feel more comfortable that you go. They go, you understand me, you get me. And you're communicating in a way that I like and is that is easy for me. So therefore it'll be easier to open up and to spend time with you. Why else does that happen? Well, we lack self awareness. If we're not aware of our own personality and the difference with this personality, or we think it's just us and our way is the best way, it's going to be hard to adjust to other people. Shad Tidler [00:10:27]: Right. And we don't understand that. That's why sometimes we have communication issues and there's conflict and frustration is because we're trying to get them to go so far to our side and we're not trying to meet them where they're at. Okay, so let's talk about some other reasons we lack permission and getting alignment. One of the things, first off when we're reaching out to folks, we're spending time with them, is we gotta make sure we align with them and get permission. Right. So if you go back to that example, somebody prospecting you, usually as soon as you say hi, they're going to start dumping on you. There's no permission in that conversation. Shad Tidler [00:10:59]: There's no alignment. Right. So you're like, okay, here we go. Like, this is completely out of my control. This isn't helpful. There's no value here. And I didn't tell them it's okay to do it. So then it becomes easy for you to go, I don't have the time, please take me off your list, you know, or hang up because you go, I didn't agree to have this conversation. Shad Tidler [00:11:17]: Well, we gotta make sure. Are we agreeing early with folks and going, hey, can we agree to take a minute here, I'll tell you why I called or reached out to you and you tell me if that's worth us talking further. Right. You know, and making sure that you understand what their needs are. Right. We're not transparent type. Yes in the chat, if you've ever had salesperson or a person prospecting, you reach out and you said, hey, are you trying to sell me something? And then they said something like, well, no, just trying to gather some information or I'm not trying to sell anything. Just put yes in the chat if you've ever had that happen. Shad Tidler [00:11:48]: Right. But if we're not transparent, go, this is why I'm reaching out. This is why I'm calling. These are the things we're hearing and seeing from people. Are those even relevant? To you in this situation, then automatically eroding trust and that automatically gets the walls to come up. So it breaks down the relationship even before it gets started. So we've got to be transparent. Conversation, go. Shad Tidler [00:12:09]: This is why I'm reaching out. But if you even think with existing customers, hey, if I want to meet or have a conversation with you, here's why, here's the value that I see that brings for you. Are you open to having this conversation or can we set this up so that they see the value and they're also very clear on what's expected there. So let's talk about one piece to build on this. That why this happens. One of the very first things and goes back to some of these things here is like misalignment. There's no value. We're not saying expectations early. Shad Tidler [00:12:40]: It's something I call the buyer's process. And so here's what the buyer's process is. It goes back to that. That example is somebody's prospecting you and you get that cell phone call, you know, at five o' clock a lot of times. The thing that we do, the pattern we do, that's part of the process, right? That we go into, that's part of what we call buyer's processes. We have this pattern that we go into when somebody's reaching out to us to spend time because we go. I go in this pattern because I don't see value right away. And I've had bad experiences in the past where I didn't see value. Shad Tidler [00:13:11]: But I continued the conversation and let it go on. And it took up my time, my effort and energy. And so in order to not do that, I'm going to interrupt it from the start, right? So one of the pieces there is, is what happens we call a buyer's process. And one of the very first things is that pattern, you know, is they say something like, I don't have time, right? This isn't value, etc. And it's a protective measure that people have. So one, and not all buyers do this or people we're talking to try and build relationships, but a lot do because of the bad experience they've had. One of my colleagues put it this way a few years back, she said, you pay the sins for every other bad person prospecting them, selling to them they've ever had, right? So if someone promised them the world and didn't deliver, if someone was terrible in how they approach things, you pay the price for it, right? You pay the price for it. Unfortunately, even if you're trying to show up and help them. Shad Tidler [00:14:03]: So part of the process they go into is to go, well, I'm not going to fully tell you everything I need, right? Or I'm going to say, this isn't, you know, something I need. It's not relevant. And we call that a lie. They give you a lie up front, right? And so they do that as a protective measure. Well, let's say they do start, you know, you do start to open. Get them to open up and share some things. And then they may go, well, tell me everything, like how would you fix this? What would you do? And then it becomes about what they call, we call stealing. As they go, I'm going to take all this information, give me. Shad Tidler [00:14:31]: And then I'm going to go figure out how we do it ourselves to improve things, to fix these problems. Or I'll go and see if I can get somebody, you know, that we work with to improve these. If I got somebody else, I get help, right? So they may steal information. And then when you go, hey, well let's set time to talk further or to make a decision, get our help, then they may say, well that sounds great, I should be able to do that, or follow up at this time. But there's nothing definitely definitive that's happened. And so we make the assumption of, well, they've said the right things. That sound good. It sounds like they're going to get our help or they want to build a relationship with us. Shad Tidler [00:15:05]: But it turns out that they're actually not thinking that they're going, I can figure it out myself or I'm going to go somewhere else. So we try to follow up and we try to follow up multiple times. And we're now, you know, in an experience of when they're hiding from us. So they don't want to tell us? No, they don't want to, you know, say, I'm sorry, I'm doing this myself or I'm going to direction. We don't want to really make a change. But it's easy for them to go, I'm just going to hide so I don't have to deal with that. And then finally maybe you do catch them on the phone, right? Or run into my event and they say things like, hey, you know, I appreciate you doing all the follow up. I'm sorry, things have been really busy. Shad Tidler [00:15:40]: There's been some fires in our office. We're getting them all put out. Follow up again with me next week. We'll talk on this. And you do. And they don't show up right, or you can't get them right, so they end up lying again. Well, that process that happens a lot of times, people do it because they go, I've had bad experiences or have a hard time telling people no. And so therefore, it's just easier to go through that process so I don't have to deal with it. Shad Tidler [00:16:02]: Right. But if we don't understand that process happens, it becomes harder for us to go, well, how do we interrupt that? And how can we build that relationship with people if we don't realize that's what's happening and what we're getting caught in? Okay, so let's talk about some things for improvement. And we're going to start to break some of these down. Number one is interrupt the pattern. Right. So how do we show up different from the start? One of the very first things, and I'm going to take it from a reaching out new, and then I'll take it from building relationships with current customers. One of the very first things is we reach out to someone new. It has to be okay. Shad Tidler [00:16:38]: We talked about, like, at the beginning is if I. If I show up and I kind of just dump everything about like, hey, here's our company and here's who I am, and here's all the great things we can do and why you should talk to us. That triggers their buyer's processor pattern to go, I'm good, right? This is value. I don't want to spend time. Or they may, you know, give you a line, say, call me back later. And knowing that they're not going to be there and they hide from you, the very first thing, we've got to interrupt the pattern. All right, so let's talk about what that may sound like. Right? You're first calling or reach out to somebody, whether, you know, it's your calling or, you know, maybe reaching out via LinkedIn or email or something like that is starting that off in a different way than what they're used to. Shad Tidler [00:17:17]: They're used to getting a call from somebody that they don't know, and it's a, hi, how are you? And then they start to go, I don't know you. And they put the walls up. So interrupting the pattern just might be, hey, Kortney Shad Tiddler. I'm guessing my name doesn't reabell to you, does it? Right. That stops people and they have to kind of think for a minute and they go, okay, wait a minute, who is this? Now their attention's on you. Or you might say, hey, hey, Kortney, Shad Tiddler, I'm guessing I probably caught you at a bad time, didn't I? Right? And now they start to go, well, no, I got a minute. What's this about? And their intentions, focus, and outside of whatever, you know, that they're distracted with, etc. The other is, and we talked about this as one of the challenges of being transparent with people that causes some of these patterns. Shad Tidler [00:17:56]: The other one is from a. Transparency is to go, hey, Kortney, Shad Tiddler, are you ready for the greatest sales call you've ever had? Right? And all of a sudden they go. They laugh because they go, who calls out that their cold calling is a sales call? And okay, I'm willing to at least listen because it's different pattern than what they're used to, right? And that's interrupting the pattern. Can I start off in a way that gives them a different experience? Because if we start the experience different from the beginning, then they start to go, this is something different that maybe I should pay attention to. And they start to treat you different. Now, they may still say, hey, you know what, I don't have a need for that, et cetera, but you're getting them to at least have the conversation and to start to build the conversation from the start. So those are some ways they're apparent. Think about some of may the best times someone has sold you and they've interrupted the pattern, right? Maybe they've asked or said something that has caught you off guard or made you laugh, where you go, okay, I'm willing to at least listen to what you got to say and see if there's any relevance here if this is a main value, right? So that's the very first thing we got to show up and interrupt the pattern. Shad Tidler [00:18:58]: Right? Here's an example. Also interrupting the pattern with current customers might be instead of you show up and you go, I want to talk about these things. You know, when we meet, asking them, going, hey, what's the most important thing you want to talk about with me? Right? What's important, like things you're running into that we can help with, right? Or what do you want to make sure you get out of this conversation? Now, you can give them the context, but also, you know, really hear from them. What is most important for them, right? What do they really want to hear in that conversation or talk about that's most important and why? Right? That interrupts the pattern from the outset, okay. Another is fixing approach, gain alignment early and often, right? I've seen too many times where we Try to force where we want the relationship to go or what we want to be talking about. Right. So after interrupting, that pattern is going, okay, let's talk about what's most important here. This little tool we call an upfront contract. Shad Tidler [00:19:52]: Right. And so this might be something like, hey, ma', am, so when we get ready to meet or have a conversation next week at 10 o', clock, let's, you know, we're going to meet for an hour, so establish the time there. Here's what I was planning to discuss with you. Here's a couple of bullet points of the agenda. What else would you like to make sure we discuss and cover in that conversation to make it really effective and make it really good use of your time. So now you're really making sure you understand what's important to them. Right. And get buy in. Shad Tidler [00:20:18]: And then you can say, okay, hey, based on that, who else might this be important to? That that should be a part of that conversation in case there's other people that other decision makers, other people are involved. Right. And then you can say from there, let's talk about what decisions or what next step we need to take at the end of that conversation. All right, so that tool establishing time, specific time, the amount of time you're going to spend with people and then also the agenda, what's important to them, what's important to you, making sure you're aligned on it. And then also, you know, making sure, do we have good, clear next steps and objectives set up? You know, I know this is if there's a decision to be made at the end of that conversation, here's what that might look like, right. And are they okay with it? So the whole key of all this is not only establishing that up front, but being able to gain agreement with them. So are you making sure that you're in agreement? Right. Are we agreed or two on the time and how much time we're going to spend together? Are we agreed to on their agenda, our agenda, what we want to cover and make sure we're working together and aligned on that. Shad Tidler [00:21:23]: Are we agreed on what are the next steps or the things to accomplish and decide by the end of it and are they in agreement on it? So not only are you establishing that up front, but in getting agreement, but you're also making sure that you take care of it early. So in case there is some sort of a disagreement, right. Or they want to see something else or go in another direction, you can deal with that then versus later when they go, okay, well this is all great, but I can't do that. Right. Or we want to do this, or we want to have this conversation, and then you're caught off guard. Not only, you know, you make sure you're aligned, but also you deal with any challenges up front, which reduces anxiety for them and for you. Right. So that's the tools make sure are you gaining agreement early and often, whether it's with a prospective customer or even a current customer. Shad Tidler [00:22:08]: Right. And that builds trust with them because they go, hey, not only are you doing these things up front, but you're also making sure that you understand what's most important to me and that I feel in control of making a decision. Right. Put in the chat, if you don't have this agreement early and often, whether it's a potential customer or a current customer, if you don't establish agreement early and often, what's some of the problems you run into? So here in the chat, let's see if we can get some people with some things and some real life stuff in the chat. So if we don't get that agreement early and often with people, as we're communicating with them, as we're building relationship, what's some of the challenges we run into? So things I might hear are things like, well, I think the conversation is going to go in this direction, but they all send, throw this on me and take in that direction. I wasn't ready for that. I don't understand what's most important to them. Right. Shad Tidler [00:22:56]: So let's think of what are some of those things we challenge run into if we don't gain that agreement early and often. All right, See what comes in there. We'll keep moving here. Adjust to them, not them to you. Right. And we're going to talk about a tool called disk profile. I'm going to explain what that is here in just a little bit for those of us aren't familiar. And then how do you use it to adjust to others and help with communication and building relationships and trust? Right. Shad Tidler [00:23:19]: You gotta be thinking, you know, in a conversation, this goes to active listening. Where should your focus be? Right. In a conversation and a relationship with your customers? It needs to be on them the majority of the time. Right. It needs to be something that they're going. It's focused on them. Oh, Claudette came in. Guess getting a no early on is better than yes because we actually explored the blockers with no. Shad Tidler [00:23:40]: Yeah, absolutely. If you go back to previous. Right. If you get a no, or they say, you know, hey, no, I can't do that or I don't want to make that decision. You deal with it then versus you spent that time, maybe that hour meeting at the end, they go, well, I can't do that. That's not where I want to go. Right. Getting that up front helps you to figure out, okay, where do we need to navigate and what might be those blockers and how do we work through them? All right? But going back to this, adjust to them, right? That your focus needs to be on them. Shad Tidler [00:24:05]: So there's a couple of keys of truly active listening and good active communication with people. And it helps with building the relationships and trust. One of the keys, who is your focus on? And the other key is what's the story in your head? Right. If you think about that is who's my focus on? When you're with your customers or even building relationships with new potential customers, your focus needs to be on them. Needs to be on what's most important to them. That's what they're there for. Right? And they're the key, right. They're the ones that's going to help you to build that relationship. Shad Tidler [00:24:38]: So who's my focus on? If you're noticing you're drifting back to yourself and thinking about, gosh, how am I going to handle this? What should I do there? How do I navigate this? Your focus is on you, it's not on them. So you need to focus yourself back to them. And literally what I do in my head in those situations, I go, where's my focus at? It's on me. Who's need me on them? How do I get back to them? Right? So that, that's the first thing is that awareness now second, what's the story in your head? If your focus is on them, the story in your head should just be, how can I help them? What's important to them? How can I help them? Right? So those are a couple keys. But that means we've got to be focused on them and able to adjust to them. Denise brought up a great question. We have a new product. How do we sell a new product with limited testimonials? Here's the thing, Denise. Shad Tidler [00:25:22]: Ask questions. Uncover what problems or challenges are they running into? In particular, your product can help them solve. Why are those things and problems or challenges happening? What impact is it having on their business on them? And is it something that's important for them to fix? Right. If they start to share those, they're gonna be less worried about. Okay, do you have testimonials, things like that? So how do you Draw out their pain points. Number one, set an agreement with them in that conversation. Hey, well, first off, let's start. If they're brand new, as you're reaching out, you want to say, hey, here's some of the problems and challenges we typically hear with folks that are talking to us. Shad Tidler [00:25:57]: And those should be relative, Denise, to your service, what your service, your product helps solve. Here's some of the common products or challenges. Two or three of those. The first thing is, are those even relevant to you? Are you even running into those? That's the first thing you got to see if your top two or three things that you guys help solve, problems you help solve, or even things that they're trying to figure out, that's the first way to start to draw it out. Now after that, you know, setting agreement with them, go, hey, can I ask some questions here to better understand what problems a little bit more about these challenges and problems and where you're trying to get to. What would the solution or ideal goal look like for you and the impact? So that way I can better figure out how we can help her or if we can help you here. Right? You gotta set that agreement like I talked about a couple slides ago, Set that agreement to them, you know, with them and go, are you okay if we ask some of these questions? Now from there, the strategy around that is your questions start to go, okay, well, tell me more about the challenge. If you mentioned this challenge you're running into that we talked about. Shad Tidler [00:26:52]: Tell me more about that. Give me some real life examples. How's that affecting your business? How's that affecting you personally? Is this something that's a priority to fix? That's how you start to draw some of those. We call them pain points. Right? You gotta first make sure. Here. Are any of these, we call them pain indicators or symptoms. The challenge you're running into are those things you're experiencing that are even relevant about talking to. Shad Tidler [00:27:15]: And then can we have an agreement of having a conversations where I ask a lot of questions? Bear, Stan. And then here's the question I'm going to ask to figure out what's going on, how we can really help. Kortney Harmon [00:27:26]: Right? Shad Tidler [00:27:26]: And then even then, it's like, what would the ideal solution look like for you? What would success look like for you? Right? That's how you start to draw those out. Right, Denise? Hopefully that was helpful. Back to this is. But we gotta adjust to them, which means we gotta have our focus on them and then we gotta go, okay, hey, how do I adjust communication to them? How do I adjust my personality and my approach and my style to them so that feels comfortable for them. You know, one of the phrases we hear like, people do business with people they like. That's part of it. The actual key is people do business with people who are like them, right? Once you think of times you've met a person trying to sell to you, where you go, I like them, I talk to them, but there's really no any value. Like, they don't quite get me. Shad Tidler [00:28:07]: Like, they understand me, so I don't buy from them. But if they come around, they're friendly, right? I'll talk to them. Versus, hey, they get me. They understand my style, they understand how I communicate, they understand what's important. Important. Like they bring value to the conversation. It's because they're figuring out way, how do I be like you? Where I get you to feel comfortable, to start to open up, to share the problems and challenges and then provide the value to you. So I mentioned this, strategies for improvement. Shad Tidler [00:28:34]: All right. And fixing the approach. So one is, hey, we've got to go. Going back to what we said here, we got to adapt, right? So next piece is, what's a tool for adapting? Number one, the tool that we teach or use called Disc Profile. If some of you may have seen this, I'm not. I'm going to explain it. So Disc Profile is just a personality profile. I always tell people, if you've ever taken a Myers Briggs, some of the other ones out there, there's going to be a lot of similarities to this, right? So what this whole personality profile, the whole basis behind is saying is that everybody's got four parts to their personality, right? And these four parts we all have with inside of us. Shad Tidler [00:29:10]: It's just when we're kind of naturally being who we are or if we're under stress, we tend to go back to the attributes of one or two of these personality pieces of the four parts, right? So, hey, if I'm just kind of hanging out at home being who I am, this is what I like. My personality kind of comes out, these attributes do. Or if I'm under stress, I've got, you know, I've got a lot of pressure on me. I've got to make a tough decision, I got to do it quickly. I'll tend to revert back to these attributes, right? So how do we use this in action? Well, let me give you the context and I'll talk about how we use it. So D stands for dominant, right? And a dominant personality would be someone who's very straight to the point. They don't care about how you react to things. They're just going to tell you how it is. Shad Tidler [00:29:52]: They're very much focused on their goals and accomplishing those, and that's what's most important. They're high level. They go, I don't need to get in all the details. I just need to go, this is my goal. Here's what I got to do and get it done. They move fast, they think quick, they make decisions fast. They tend to kind of dominate, you know, or dominant comes from dominate the conversation or things and take over, right? So if you think of dominant people, a lot of people have that dominant trait who are leaders of organizations or groups, right. When they're, you know, in that position, a lot of times that d part of their personality comes out and that's more natural to them, right? So that's a dominant person. Shad Tidler [00:30:27]: Somebody who's an eye we call on this disc is an influencer. That's somebody who they love connecting with people. A lot of people, they can start conversations with just about anyone. They're kind of the life of the party. Like, they like to have fun and people like to be around because they have fun. They tend to wear their emotions on their sleeves, so you kind of always know how they're feeling about things. They don't tend to be great with details, you know, they tend to forget things, let details slip, et cetera. And they don't like a lot of rules around things because that feels too structured and too constricting. Shad Tidler [00:30:59]: Right. But they're great at motivating people. They're great at having fun and exciting and they tend to kind of be able to replace when you're communicating with them and their communication style and their approach to things, right. So that's the I, the influencer. The S is the steady relator, right. So if you think of the eyes, very emotional kind of emotions over place, up and down, kind of, you know, jumping around from different things. The S is very kind of measured and reserved. They sit back and they wait and kind of see and observe and think through things before they respond. Shad Tidler [00:31:33]: Maybe ask them a question, they take 30 seconds, like an awkward pause to respond because they're really trying to think of the best things there. They're really trying to make sure they have the right response. S is also like connecting with people like the eyes, but on a one to one basis, right. Versus connecting with a bunch of people. They tend to have very deep relationships with people and get to know Them well over time, but they tend to take their time making decisions. So they may want to think things over or they may want to take it one step at a time and not rush too much into the decision. Right. Very opposite. Shad Tidler [00:32:06]: That high D, who's like, let's just make the decision and go, and let's do it fast because I got other stuff going on. The S wants to slow things down. Ss also don't like conflict. So they tend to be someone who goes, I'm going to kind of avoid being direct and telling people what I think. Which may mean telling you no or pushing back or challenging something or saying they don't like something because they go, I'm afraid of how you're going to react. And also it's a conflict for me. So that's an S. And then finally we have the C, which is a critical thinker, right? Which is the person who's the detail person, the process person. Shad Tidler [00:32:40]: They're very structured. They want to make sure that there's a process and there's rules for everything, that everything's thought out, that they have a step and a plan for everything. They tend to be very kind of cold in their approach. Not really much about emotions with them. It's more about facts and logic, right? So those are the four parts of the personality. So the key here is not only do you understand yourself and go, gosh, which do I fit in here? Am I more of a D and I and S or C? And if you think of when you're just kind of naturally being who you are, like in your natural element, right? Or just hanging out at home, like, which of those attributes seem to talk to you more or seem to resonate more? And then think about when you're under stress, what do you do? Right. A dominant person, when they're under stress, they make a decision quick and move, and they don't worry about the consequence. They're like, we'll figure it out. Shad Tidler [00:33:27]: The high I, the influencer, when they're under stress, they want to go talk to a bunch of people or change topics. The highest, when they're under stress, they want to think about it and slow things down. The high C, when they're under stress, they want more data and more information and have a process and have a very good structure to make it. It's black and white and it's pros and cons, not emotion, right? So think about yourself, not only where you might fall on there, but also now you have to take that search, go, well, this is Me, but who is the person I'm talking to, building a relationship with, right? If I'm a high D and I like to move fast, keep it high level and make it by myself and I'm dealing with a high C that's very detail oriented, has to have process and structure, has to think through everything. I'm going to get frustrated with them or the communication is going to break down, right? Or if I'm a high D and I'm dealing with the highest that doesn't want to take things too fast and doesn't tell me exactly what they're thinking and feeling, I'm going to have a problem with that, right? So we've got to go. Not only is it important I know myself, but do I understand the attributes of that person and am I able to adjust to them? Right. If I'm with a high D, I want to make sure it's high level, make sure I understand what's important to them, make sure that I understand their timeline, we're moving on that. Make sure we're making decisions and taking action quick, right? I'm going to be willing to challenge. Shad Tidler [00:34:47]: They like to be challenged. If they go, you're not going to challenge me or push back, they're like, I've got all the power here and they don't like when people don't give them a challenge or be willing to tell them what's actually, you know, push back when they need to. If I'm with a high I that influencer, I gotta spend a little time getting to know them. I gotta understand the conversation is going to be all over the place and it's not going to be a very linear path in that. I gotta understand that they're going to be emotional, emotions will be up and down for them. I gotta understand if I need them to do something or make decision, I might have to come back to a few times because they forget the details, right? Or they're all over the place. If I'm dealing with a high S, I gotta slow it down and I gotta really take my time with them. I gotta make sure whatever decision we're making is broken into little bits and pieces along the way. Shad Tidler [00:35:31]: I gotta, when I ask a question, I gotta really let them think and process before they say their response, right? Or if I'm with the high C, I gotta make sure I show them. Here's our process for this. I got to ask them about their process. I got to let them talk through details. If I'm presenting something to them or talking through Something I got to make sure I have a detailed plan and I've thought through all the pieces for them. Right? Those are key things. Now a few other key things that can help you with this and you'll see those things around the outside that say like task oriented, active, people oriented, reserved. When you're first talking to people or as you talk through them over time in the relationship, do they talk mostly about tasks and jobs and hitting goals or do they talk more about spending time with people and their relationships? If they talk more about tasks and jobs and hitting goals, they're probably a D or C. Shad Tidler [00:36:25]: That can help you with figuring out how to navigate the conversation. If they talk more about people and relationships and how they take care of people and that being important, they're probably more of an IRNs look at how they are communicating with you. If they're to the right and they're more active means that they have no problem bringing stuff up to you, talking a lot, getting the conversation started, asking that they're probably a D or an I. They're active, right? Versus if they're quieter and they kind of sit back and they ask questions and they let you kind of lead and they think before the answer and more reserved, they're probably an src. So the whole key here folks goes back to you got to adapt to them. Well, first you got to understand who may they be based on this and then based on who I am, what do I need to adjust for that, right? And if you go they're opposite me, right? So I'm a high sc. That's my natural disc profile. I deal with a lot of high Ds and high I's in what I do in my work. Shad Tidler [00:37:20]: So I know if that's the case when I'm communicating with D's and I's, I'm going to adjust that D is very high level. Move fast, help them make decision what's important. I spend time with them, get to know, have some fun, loosely come up with a plan, maybe have to bring them back to the details, make sure we get things done and the emotion that comes from just part of it. I got to make sure I get my rest, I have my energy for that because if I don't, it's going to show up and I'm trying to force them to adjust to me versus I'm adjusting them so I can do it. It just takes more effort, more energy with them. Right. So let's keep rolling from here. Strategies for improving the approach building these relationships stronger. Shad Tidler [00:37:58]: 70% of the time, they should be doing the talking. 30% of the time, we should be doing the talking. All right? Now, this isn't a hard fast, like, you don't have to measure it out and go, oh, spend 70% of time. Now I get to talk to that 30%. No, but the whole key here is I need to be making sure they're doing most of the talking. Well, how do we do that? We got to ask more questions and we got to truly listen. Right? I want you to think of when you're working with, whether it's prospective new customer or even a current customer and building that relationship stronger. Are you being like a doctor? Are you being like a doctor and going, okay, how's a good doctor operate? I know we've all met some bad doctors, but a good doctor operates. Shad Tidler [00:38:34]: Well, good doctor operates by going, I'm going to ask some questions so I can truly diagnose first. I'm going to ask a lot of questions, some really good ones so I can truly diagnose first and understand what the problems are and challenges and why and the impact and what they really want help on. And then I'm going to speak and diagnose. We need to be the same way with our customers and potential customers, right? How do we do that? Like we talked about before is find out, are these, you know, things that they're running into that you can help with relevant? Number two, interrupting the pattern by doing that. Number three, setting the agreement with them, hey, can I go there and have this conversation? Ask a lot of questions so I can really understand where things are and where you want to get to. Then start to ask the questions and really listen, right? And then adjust to their personality type based on that disc. Right? But the whole key here is who's spending the majority of the time talking. If you're doing the majority of talking, you're focused on yourself and what's important to you and not what's important to them. Shad Tidler [00:39:28]: And then there's one other piece here we talk about, and this is building trust, right? We call this the trust equation in action. Right? So how can we build trust with others? Number one, consistency. Do you consistently do the things you say you're going to do? Do you show up and do those things on it? Because if you go, I'm going to reach out to you at this time. We're going to have this conversation time. Do you show up for it? I'm going to get this to you at this time. Do you actually deliver on that? You know, hey, when they approach me. Here's the approach I'm going to have in those conversations. How am I show up? Going back to our previous slide, I'm going to ask them a lot of questions first to really understand before I talk and be understood. Shad Tidler [00:40:09]: If you consistently do that, that builds trust with people. If you're a manager or a leader, think about that as consistency. You know, if you think of building relationships with your people, consistency is not only do I show up in those ways I just mentioned, but also do I make sure that I'm consistently treating people in an equal fashion. Right? Not Bob over here gets the pass or exception. Everybody else has to be under these rules and be accountable for these things. Well, no, that breaks down trust with your team, right? If they go, well, hey, this person's going to pass. They don't have to do their part or be accountable. Rest of us do. Shad Tidler [00:40:42]: That breaks down trust. That's consistency. Number two is empathy. Are we understanding, sharing feelings and fostering others? Right. As you're talking to customers and potential customers, are you really listening and empathizing with them? Now, that doesn't mean you have to take on their feelings of what's happening, but going, man, that's tough. Gosh, that sounds hard. You know, are you doing okay? Right? Real empathy, you know, like you would your best friend or a family member if they had a problem or challenge. And then finally is transparency. Shad Tidler [00:41:10]: Are you being open and honest for communication, or are you going being just transparent, going, hey, here's what we can and can't do. Here's how we can help and can't help. Hey, you mentioned these things are important. Here's how we can address those, and here's the things we can or the challenge we run into. Even when there's problems or challenges, being transparent about what's going on, it's like, yep, we made this mistake. Here's why it happened. Here's what we're doing about, here's how we'll get fixed. Does that work with you? Is that working for you? Right? Being transparent with people, These three things, consistency, empathy, transparency, that adds up to trust. Shad Tidler [00:41:44]: And you think of that either externally with potential customers or current customers or even internally, right? Are we making sure that we're consistently putting these pieces together and doing this with our relationships so people have trust in us? And the biggest last one here, folks, just focus on helping others. Are we truly focused as we go into those conversations? Whether it's a potential new customer or relationship or a current. Just focus on how can I help Them. This goes back to what I said about active listening. Where's my focus? What's the message in my head when I realized, you know, and we're all guilty of this. It happens like, hey, I lose my focus on them. The question I ask is, where's my focus? And then the second is, what's the story in my head? And usually starting my head is, I'm worried about this, I'm concerned about this, about me. And the trigger I go to is, how do I help them? Let me just focus on helping them. Shad Tidler [00:42:36]: If we prioritize helping others, even if it doesn't mean it benefits us right away, it's going to be, you know, down the road. People see that, they feel that and focus on helping others might be saying, hey, we're not the right fit or this isn't the best approach for things. Right. And the key that I always help people think through and they remember from this is if you didn't need the business and you're just focused on helping them make the best decision for themselves and their businesses, what would you do? And people are like, I would just be very transparent. If we couldn't help them, I would ask really direct questions that would help them think through a decision. If they were, hey, they said they have a problem but they're not going to do anything about it. I would challenge that. Yeah, because you're just focused on helping them. Shad Tidler [00:43:16]: Whether it goes, I get the business, it benefits me or not. Just focus on helping them. So we had a lot of things here in this last 45 minutes. Any questions, other things that were that we didn't cover running across in this. Thank you, Denise, along the way for a couple great questions that you brought there. Kortney Harmon [00:43:33]: I love it. I love me a good disc assessment. I don't think I've done that one in a while. I know my predictive index score. Shad Tidler [00:43:39]: I think there's a lot of relation cornea of like, I mean, I've done various ones and you see a lot of overlap of certain things. And the. And the whole key always of is yes, is about understanding me, but it's really about understanding other people and how do I adapt knowing that these things aren't as natural or they're, you know, a little bit hard. Kortney Harmon [00:43:58]: So I agree and I love it. I think it's just a great way to make sure we're connecting with the people that we talk to. And I love whenever you brought that up, my heart got really happy whenever you were showing that my type A personality is shining straight through well and Shad Tidler [00:44:12]: one of the things I think it's like when people go, how do I know if I'm connecting with somebody else personality? Go think about times where you met somebody first time and you're like, I don't know. This conversation just clicked and you sit down for like 20 minutes and you both walk away going, man, that was great. And it's. I feel like I've known him forever. If you actually break it down, think about the elements of disc. Probably a lot of that was happening, you just didn't naturally. You just weren't intentional about it. It just happened naturally. Shad Tidler [00:44:37]: Well, if they're similar tests in style, a lot of times that just happens easily naturally. It's about those folks that are opposite and us being intentional and understanding that and adjusting. That's where we can make the big strides. There's. Kortney Harmon [00:44:49]: I love it. I don't think there's any questions, but there are great comments on great presentation, great discussion. Shad Tidler [00:44:56]: Thank you. Kortney Harmon [00:44:57]: I love it. Now again, for those of you who haven't connected with Shad, please go connect with him on LinkedIn. Shad Tidler [00:45:02]: Stacy, once I get someone to call back, I do not have a problem. Getting their trust or helmet is just getting them to call back or respond. Okay, Stacy, so try some of that interrupting the pattern. You can even put that into a voicemail, say hey, here's why I'm reaching out. We typically hear people, you know, companies, people like yourself are running these problems. Are any of these relevant? If so, reach back out. You know. Here the other thing, Stacy, is try various ways people like communication in various ways. Shad Tidler [00:45:27]: Like I know certain customers of mine, like the only way I'm gonna give them is over text to set up something. If I send an email, I will never get em, but text, they respond to your way. Other people are in email. Other people are like LinkedIn. Like I know there's certain people I connect in like LinkedIn. Everybody's got different ways they communicate. Not right, wrong, good or bad. But vary it up so you can start to find what's good but also make sure is like early on make it about them and make it a different pattern than what they're used to. Shad Tidler [00:45:52]: So. All right. But yeah, if you want to be reached out, practically put your info in. If not, no worries. If not, that's my email. You can always reach out passively or like I said, there's only one chat to learn on LinkedIn as far as I know and you can connect with me there. Kortney Harmon [00:46:04]: Well, Shad, thank you so much for spending time out of your busy day and sharing your puppy with us because he's adorable too. But we appreciate all that you do for the industry and all the training because this is what makes the world go round and learning how to be better every single day. So thank you so much for your time and your investment in the industry. That's a wrap on this episode. If this one got you thinking, just wait until you hear what's coming next. We're dropping a new session from the FDE Q1 event every week, each one a different speaker, a different topic, and a different angle on what really takes to build relationship driven revenue in this industry right now. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss the next one. We'll see you there.