Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / From Caregiver to Self-Healer: Carrie Pierce on Grief, Core Wounds & Reclaiming Self-Worth

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From Caregiver to Self-Healer: Carrie Pierce on Grief, Core Wounds & Reclaiming Self-Worth · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:01
  Hello, Melissa Crook here at The Field Podcast.
• 0:04
  We've got ways to engage for you today with our episode Feeling
• 0:09
  to Healing with Carrie Pierce. Take time to consider your core
• 0:14
  wounds, starting from childhood. Sit with the emotions that come
• 0:18
  up during the explorations that you do during this time, while
• 0:22
  remembering that there are no good or bad emotions.
• 0:25
  I feel very strongly about that. Emotions are clues to help you
• 0:30
  to get to the bottom of the real issue.
• 0:32
  Healing yourself from the past continues to heal yourself into
• 0:37
  the future, setting you up for further success mentally,
• 0:42
  physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
• 0:45
  We hope these ways to engage really make you sit down and
• 0:48
  think. Today as you're engaging with
• 0:50
  this episode, we have with Carrie Pierce.
• 0:53
  Thanks so much for being with us.
• 1:02
  Finding power, men embracing layers.
• 1:06
  Yet we get to. We get to feel hello field
• 1:12
  podcast audience welcome back this week.
• 1:15
  I have a new friend here with me today.
• 1:17
  Her name is Carrie Pierce. I think this is going to be a
• 1:20
  fascinating conversation. Carrie has a really rich multi
• 1:24
  layered background. I think she's going to have a
• 1:26
  ton of insights to share wisdom to share a lot of thoughts about
• 1:31
  each of our talking points and you'll see what I mean as we get
• 1:34
  into it. I, I've learned about Carrie
• 1:37
  from our good friends at Pod Match and then her publishing
• 1:41
  company's been fantastic about keeping in contact and helping
• 1:44
  us get the information to each other that we needed.
• 1:47
  And so I'm really excited to have her here with me today.
• 1:51
  Kerry describes herself as tactful, strategic and
• 1:55
  observant. Carrie Pierce, Welcome to the
• 1:57
  Field podcast. Oh, hello, Melissa.
• 2:00
  Thank you so much. It's a true joy and an honor to
• 2:03
  be with you and your audience today, and I hope I can deliver
• 2:07
  on that wonderful introduction. No pressure there, no.
• 2:10
  Pressure and I'm I'm very confident you're going to be
• 2:13
  just fine. I have a good feeling about
• 2:15
  this. OK, let's get right into this
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  because this is a really important topic for women and
• 2:21
  I'm sure something that you've come across in different seasons
• 2:26
  of your life and also experience how it's changed for you in
• 2:31
  different seasons of your life depending on what you needed in
• 2:34
  that moment. And that's the idea of self-care
• 2:37
  in your life, prioritizing that, taking care of yourself.
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  Like I said, you've gone through different seasons, you've had
• 2:45
  different experiences. So what you needed in one moment
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  and one season may have changed in another season.
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  So talk to me about yourself care journey and how you've
• 2:54
  learned to adapt to the different places and spaces
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  you've been in to continue to find practices and time that
• 3:02
  work for you. I mean, when you and I got on,
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  you were simply talked about the joy of sitting there, having a
• 3:08
  moment of quiet with your tea to just relax and not do anything.
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  And I think we underestimate the value of that.
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  Indeed so and you know, you bring up a really good point and
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  how how you describe the seasons of our lives and self-care and
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  how that needs to shift. And for years and years I was a
• 3:28
  caregiver to both of my parents. My father had a horrible journey
• 3:31
  through Lewy body dementia, which is the worst of the worst
• 3:35
  dementia. It's, it brings a lot of
• 3:37
  hallucinations and violence with it.
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  And mom and I took care of him for many, many years until he
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  unfortunately lost that battle. And you know, as you move
• 3:49
  through life and address traumas and and pains and difficulties
• 3:55
  and stuffed feelings and emotions accrue.
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  And if we don't take the time to deal with them, they do come up
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  in in certain different ugly ways, disease processes,
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  anxiety, panic attacks, those kind of things.
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  And so for a lot of years myself, care was pretty much non
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  existent. It was as I could snatch it
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  because I couldn't leave my dad alone too long and I couldn't
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  leave him alone too long with my mom because I was afraid that he
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  would hurt her unwittingly. He never meant to.
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  He was a very gentleman. But that's a very vicious
• 4:30
  disease. And so then mom and I, after he
• 4:35
  passed, we had a couple years of intense grief and and a lot of
• 4:39
  PTSD from that experience. And we worked through that in
• 4:44
  the remaining years of mom's life.
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  We tried to make as sweet as possible and in that we began to
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  re implement more with a concerted effort, self-care in
• 4:57
  an attempt to put ourselves back together and then not only put
• 5:01
  ourselves back together but then evolve from those experiences
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  and find out who the heck we really were after that.
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  So now that she has passed and she died a couple years ago just
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  as the two of us moved to a new community to start a new life,
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  she died very unexpectedly and left me alone.
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  I have had to go through the component of self-care for kind
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  of triaging myself from all of that trauma and grief and then
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  learning who I really am at this stage in my life.
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  So self-care was always a component of my life given my my
• 5:39
  background. I started out in film and TV
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  makeup and I was an esthetician and, and I gave facials and
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  helped women with their own self-care for years.
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  But I had to learn to apply it to this 60 year old me, all
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  alone, all by myself, with no one else to think about.
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  And that, I think, brings a truly healing emotional
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  component to self-care. Most people think of self-care
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  as slap a mud pack on your face while you're cleaning the house
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  or have a massage. That is a component of it.
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  But self-care is also resting well, sleeping well, staying
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  hydrated, crying when you need to, feeling your feelings,
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  laughing, eating well, taking your vitamins, all of those
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  things. Brushing your teeth more than
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  twice a week when you're in grief.
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  Yes, yeah, no, but those are the things that come up.
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  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I have to, I say this
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  a lot because self-care can there's it's one of those, you
• 6:50
  know, niche phrases out there right now.
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  And so I'm always really careful when I talk about something.
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  One, it's unique to everyone and two, that self-care is
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  healthcare. It's meeting those basic needs.
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  It's addressing all those parts of your health, the mental,
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  emotional, physical, spiritual, it's all those pieces.
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  So if you can do the spa day and all those things and you and
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  that's a particular part of your care for yourself, great.
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  But make sure you're tending to all the pieces of it because
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  we'll get into this in a moment because that emotional, mental,
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  physical health connection is real.
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  And you touched on it already and we'll talk about it again in
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  a moment. But yeah, it is.
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  It's the whole package and being cognitive of where you are in
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  the moment. And sometimes if you need to
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  adjust, you might have a great menu or routine in place, but
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  are you all of a sudden feeling still feeling a little angsty or
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  you're not feeling fulfilled or it's not feeling your cup the
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  same way it used to. Take a look at where you at,
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  you're at, what's changed what, what do you, how do you need to
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  adjust it? And I think that's something
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  that you touched on really well. It's just all those different
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  spaces and places that you go through.
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  And you went through a series quite quickly too.
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  So constantly being in in flux with that and just noticing what
• 8:10
  that does to you. Grief is complicated.
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  It is. It is.
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  So I mean it, it really is. I mean we lost both my in laws
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  within five months of each other in 2023.
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  My mother-in-law had, yeah, it was, it's still a little bumpy.
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  And my husband was very close with his parents.
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  My mother-in-law had Alzheimer's and so we had grieved her a
• 8:38
  while ago as she was, but then grieving that she's actually
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  gone. And then three weeks later my
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  father-in-law had a stroke and he never came out of the
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  rehabilitation center in and died five months later.
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  They had been together since they were 12 years old.
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  And so I think, you know, and a lot of, and he had other health
• 8:58
  things going on before she passed, but he also spent a lot
• 9:00
  of time taking care of her. It was A and so to have all of a
• 9:05
  sudden we were expecting her to go, We expected to have him for
• 9:09
  another 5 to 10 years. And when that didn't happen, and
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  that was probably an unrealistic expectation in our own heads,
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  but but that's kind of where we were.
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  And he seemed to be bouncing back from all the, the stroke
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  and all the things. And so when we got the phone
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  call, we were on our at the end of our 30th anniversary trip,
• 9:28
  just coming back into the United States from Victoria, BC.
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  And it's just happened so quick. So I say all that to say, I
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  understand it. I have, I've, I've experienced
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  it myself and then watched my husband unravel it and looked at
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  like, OK, these are the things we got to address now.
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  This is and it you get through 1 hill of it and you think you've
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  come out of the valley and then all of a sudden something hits
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  you that you just aren't even expecting, you didn't even see
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  coming. So I, I wanted to spend some
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  time saying all that to say that when you're in that mode, you
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  have to be very attentive to what it is you need each day
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  because you never know what is going to impact you that you
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  maybe didn't expect. That is so very well said and
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  you know, I jotted a couple things down that I think are
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  very important points. Talking about self-care.
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  There is external self-care and then there is definitely
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  internal self-care. And you bring up a really good
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  point about caregivers. When mom died, it was just this
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  compressed, incredible, traumatic experience.
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  It came out of nowhere, just as when we're moving to a community
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  where we had never been. We knew no one.
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  We were all optimistic to start this new life.
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  And she was eaten up with cancer, didn't even know.
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  And by the time she died, I was 25 lbs underweight.
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  My hair was coming out. I had lived for six months on
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  beef sticks and peanut butter because that's all I had time
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  for. And I was completely I had
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  cannibalized myself just to keep going.
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  I had no muscle left. I had broken heart syndrome,
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  chest pains. I mean, it was just awful.
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  I looked awful and I felt awful. And it took the first year and a
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  half of intensive IV vitamin therapy, acupuncture, massive
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  doses of vitamins, sobbing, crying, counseling, which I'm
• 11:33
  still in. I love counseling, but
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  caregivers go first most of the time.
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  And and I think This is why, because our needs just keep
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  getting pushed to the side, pushed to the side, pushed to
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  the side and not only pushed to the side, they then are are just
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  buried under everything else that's rolling along.
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  It's like a steamroller that's just rolling over you and you
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  can't, once it gets that tiny toe and rolls over your toe,
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  then it just rolls over the rest of you and you can't get away.
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  So I, I do think it's important to note that that self-care is
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  incredibly important. But if and when you are a
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  caregiver and you are fulfilling that role, which is an honor and
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  a privilege to be able to do, it's also potentially a death
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  sentence. If you don't take care of
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  yourself, like like you're in ICU yourself, it can be a death
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  sentence. And so I think it's important to
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  really hammer on that. And I'm, I'm so sorry that you
• 12:38
  guys had such loss in such a short period of time.
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  There's never an easy way to lose a loved one, But when you
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  lose them incredibly close together, that really compounds
• 12:51
  things. And I think especially too, when
• 12:52
  you lose loved ones over the holidays, that's extremely
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  cruel. It's and it is completely
• 13:00
  different threshold of pain. Yeah.
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  And it adds a layer to that time of year that you had that you're
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  left to unpack and you don't necessarily know until you come
• 13:11
  around the next time what it's going to do to you.
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  So I think that's a really good point too.
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  My friend Aaron Copeland has been on here on the show, both
• 13:20
  the podcasts and other shows that I've done on the Internet,
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  on the Internet radio and on our YouTube panels.
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  And she now provides resources for caregivers and she hits hard
• 13:34
  on the self-care piece and has a whole book, a whole manual.
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  She's on a variety of shows. She works with people, she
• 13:41
  coaches them through it because of that very thing you're
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  talking about. And, and it is you've got to
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  take care. You cannot take care of anyone
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  else if you are not taking care of yourself well.
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  And so many times, I mean, we saw on my side of the family and
• 13:57
  some adopted family and, and Grandpa Jean was taking care of
• 14:01
  Grandma Evie for years. She had Alzheimer's we didn't
• 14:04
  even know about because he was hiding it and protecting it was
• 14:08
  that generation. He was from that greatest
• 14:10
  generation. You didn't, you didn't.
• 14:11
  And he survived World War 2. So nothing could really be worse
• 14:15
  than that. So you just didn't talk about
• 14:16
  those things. So he passed, kind of got very
• 14:20
  sick in mid February about, gosh, it's been about 12 or 13
• 14:24
  years ago now, maybe 15 years ago.
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  I think it's me 15 years ago next month and went to the
• 14:30
  hospital and never came home. And it was such a shock.
• 14:35
  And then all of a sudden, we were left and the reality of how
• 14:39
  Brahma Evie actually was doing all came to the forefront
• 14:45
  quickly. And there had to be quick
• 14:47
  responses to care for her because we quickly realized she
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  can't live alone. She can't like.
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  And it took about 3 weeks, three to six weeks to put together all
• 14:58
  the pieces of how far gone she actually was in her dementia.
• 15:06
  But the toll that it took on him for all those years and it's so,
• 15:12
  yeah. And so it's like so a message to
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  those dealing with grief, those that are caregivers, take good
• 15:18
  care of yourselves. We've got resources to help you.
• 15:22
  We wanna give you support in this.
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  Know how valuable you are and how ask for help.
• 15:30
  That's a big thing that Erin talks about.
• 15:32
  Don't be afraid to ask for help for support.
• 15:36
  And I'll put that link to her stuff and our show notes because
• 15:41
  this is such an important topic. And I'm so glad you hit on that
• 15:44
  for people to go back to and, and, and turn to because it is
• 15:49
  such an A, an valuable thing that gets ignored.
• 15:54
  Everybody asks how the person is being cared for is that's true.
• 15:58
  And people don't always stop to ask how the caregivers doing,
• 16:01
  but you can. Always tell when a person asks
• 16:04
  you as a caregiver or as you the griever.
• 16:07
  And grief is also a killer. Yes.
• 16:09
  There's caregiving, but grief on its own, whether you're
• 16:12
  caregiving for the person or not, grief on its own is a
• 16:15
  killer. And that's a completely
• 16:16
  different, the whole entirely different show too.
• 16:20
  But when, when you have been through the process, you know to
• 16:26
  look at the caregiver and you know to look at the griever.
• 16:29
  How are you? Are you eating?
• 16:30
  Are you sleeping? Are you really OK?
• 16:32
  Do you need help? Are you are you thinking about
• 16:36
  doing yourself in? Are you, are you, are you
• 16:38
  thinking about death a lot? Are you, are you OK?
• 16:41
  Are you crying? Are you are you able to be with
• 16:43
  your feelings? When you get somebody that asks
• 16:46
  you those questions, you know they have walked the path you're
• 16:49
  on. And, and most people, we are not
• 16:53
  a grief literate society, especially they it's something
• 16:58
  to race through or ignore or just put a smile on and walk by
• 17:01
  real fast. I think, I think in we, we
• 17:04
  sometimes tend to think of death, and I did for a long time
• 17:07
  when I was younger as like a virus we might accidentally
• 17:11
  contract and bring home to our left wing.
• 17:13
  So we just want to hurry by it and just act like it doesn't
• 17:15
  exist. And I think we have a tendency
• 17:18
  to do that. And unfortunately, death has a
• 17:22
  lot of really valuable lessons and blessings to bring.
• 17:26
  And you know, we we face it with such fear and horror, like
• 17:31
  something has gone hideously wrong.
• 17:34
  Even though it's something's we're all going to experience
• 17:37
  someday. Well, yeah, And it's perfectly
• 17:39
  natural and it's part of the cycle of life.
• 17:41
  But we act like, oh, my God, something is hardly wrong.
• 17:44
  Something broke. God looked away for two seconds
• 17:46
  and this hideous thing happened. And how could this possibly
• 17:49
  happen? Is this horrible, dismal
• 17:50
  accident? But it's it's not.
• 17:54
  And and what I have had to learn because mom was my best friend
• 17:58
  and it completely, it was like 3/4 of me was amputated when she
• 18:01
  died. And I mean, I was walking around
• 18:05
  just this quivering raw lump of flesh that was all that was left
• 18:10
  of me when she died. And she died in my arms.
• 18:13
  I watched her take her last breath.
• 18:15
  The last words I got to say to her was how much I loved her.
• 18:19
  It was a perfect death. In terms of how death goes.
• 18:22
  My father's was not. His was the exact opposite.
• 18:24
  It was hellish and horrible and terrifying and so but, but death
• 18:32
  and grief are enormously valuable teachers and we tend to
• 18:37
  flee from them. We want to race through it.
• 18:40
  We want to, we want to get to the other side of it.
• 18:42
  There is no other side. And I think you know this,
• 18:45
  having walked this path as well. This is not like a river you're
• 18:49
  swimming across and you're going to get to the other side.
• 18:52
  There is no other side. And you have to learn to swim
• 18:57
  with the current. You have to learn to roll with
• 19:00
  the waves you and but in the course of doing so, you develop
• 19:06
  muscles, emotional muscles, spiritual muscles, mental
• 19:11
  muscles, physical muscles. You develop muscles that you
• 19:14
  could develop no other way. And it's a kind of akin to a
• 19:17
  butterfly having to struggle to get out of the the the
• 19:21
  chrysalis, the cocoon. If you help that butterfly, you
• 19:24
  kill it. Yeah.
• 19:27
  So you have to go through these lessons to become fully
• 19:32
  blossomed as a soul and as a human, and I did.
• 19:36
  That's a really important message.
• 19:38
  I know people don't want to hear it, but it's the truth.
• 19:41
  Yeah, it is. And it's what enables you to
• 19:43
  move forward. I mean, I think, you know, my
• 19:45
  husband and I took a trip to Ireland in September this last
• 19:50
  fall. My my mother-in-law was 100%
• 19:52
  Irish. She had been many times, I don't
• 19:55
  know, 7 to 10 times over the years and had done a lot of her
• 19:59
  own family genealogy and history.
• 20:02
  And so we had never been and had always wanted to go.
• 20:04
  But it was also kind of an homage to her to, to learn about
• 20:09
  those places that her family originally came from.
• 20:11
  And in my husband's family, you know, originally came from and,
• 20:15
  and, and walk those places that she walked in and also have our
• 20:20
  own experience there and. It was a little over.
• 20:23
  We left a little over a year after my father in
• 20:42
  It's like not that their grief is over when we get home, but it
• 20:46
  feels like we've come full circle in this season.
• 20:49
  We've allowed ourselves the space and time and we've we've
• 20:53
  know what we've learned from what we know.
• 20:55
  There's parts of this that will always be with us, but we can
• 20:58
  start taking steps forward. We can make sure we're doing the
• 21:02
  things health wise that we need to do for ourselves to live the
• 21:06
  life that we want to live, that they would want us to continue
• 21:09
  to live. So, you know, I think those are
• 21:12
  important pieces too. But people want to put a
• 21:14
  timeline on grief. You can't.
• 21:16
  Do that. They're big.
• 21:18
  There is no timeline. And so I think it's still really
• 21:21
  hard to talk about it with people because they're like, oh
• 21:24
  gosh, your parent, your loved one, your spouse, your partner,
• 21:27
  your child, what your best friend, what whoever it was,
• 21:31
  they passed over a year ago now, gosh, you're still in this
• 21:34
  place. And that's not, you know, you
• 21:37
  have to get up out of bed. You got to put 1 foot in front
• 21:41
  of the other. But grief is multi layered and
• 21:47
  nuanced and so I think you bring up such a good point of taking
• 21:51
  those things you can learn from it.
• 21:53
  How do you want to live your life moving forward while you're
• 21:56
  still here based on what you've learned from that?
• 21:59
  And then when do you get those moments, those memories that
• 22:03
  bring tears or laughter or both? Sit with them, remember them,
• 22:08
  honor them instead of getting. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm
• 22:11
  still feeling this. Because there's this societal
• 22:14
  pressure to hurry up and get through it, welcome it in, move
• 22:18
  through it. Because if you don't, if you
• 22:20
  stuff it, it's gonna come up in a very unhealthy way later.
• 22:24
  And. And it's just so true.
• 22:26
  Yeah. So.
• 22:27
  True. And you.
• 22:28
  You what? You bring up an interesting
• 22:31
  point. People that tell you you need to
• 22:34
  be over it by now. They have never lost anything
• 22:38
  that has really mattered to them.
• 22:40
  They just don't get it. And some people that were out
• 22:42
  there saying it's been a year, it's been 2 years, been three
• 22:44
  years. You can grieve somebody the rest
• 22:47
  of your life if you freaking want to, because that was your
• 22:50
  personal relationship, that was your personal loss.
• 22:52
  Nobody has a right to look at a wristwatch and tell you you
• 22:56
  should be here by now. You should be here by now.
• 22:59
  Even those stages of grief, they're misapplied and they're
• 23:03
  used incorrectly. But the thing that really stuck
• 23:06
  out to me that I think it's important to touch on as you,
• 23:09
  you grieved for a year and then you went to Ireland, which my
• 23:12
  dad's side of the family is all, all from Ireland too.
• 23:17
  You had done grieving and then you had taken steps to move your
• 23:21
  grief into active mourning. And grief and mourning are two
• 23:25
  very different things. I did not know this until I
• 23:29
  started having to save my own life alone in the fetal
• 23:33
  position, alone in my little house, in my little community,
• 23:36
  all by myself, learning this stuff.
• 23:39
  Grief is grief. That's what you feel.
• 23:42
  It's the internal process of loss and and the horrible
• 23:46
  heartache and the all the awfulness that comes with it,
• 23:50
  all of those feelings. But if you don't move it into
• 23:53
  active mourning, which is the moving grief out of you tangibly
• 23:59
  through you by crying, by going to counseling, by journaling, by
• 24:05
  putting together a little memoriam pieces to your loved
• 24:10
  one, by doing steps to honor your grief and to to deal with
• 24:16
  your grief, that's what mourning is.
• 24:18
  And without the act of mourning, you don't, you don't move on.
• 24:24
  You don't heal. And that is something that I do
• 24:26
  wish we still allowed. It boggles my mind that when you
• 24:31
  lose and an astounding loved 1 you get 3 days off at work and
• 24:36
  then you're expected to be back in like everything's like in our
• 24:39
  old ways of doing things. Older society, Victorian times
• 24:43
  women when they lost their husbands, they wore black for a
• 24:47
  year. They wore titles for a year.
• 24:49
  The, the, the husbands that were widowed, the, the children that
• 24:53
  had lost parents wore black arm bands for a year at least to
• 24:59
  tell the other people that was that would be coming into
• 25:01
  contact with them. I'm in mourning.
• 25:03
  Please be kind. I need you to be extra kind.
• 25:06
  I'm in mourning. We don't, we don't know when we
• 25:11
  leave our house every day who we are encountering that is barely
• 25:15
  holding it together because they just lost somebody.
• 25:17
  And, and since the advent of, of the office, horrible, horrible
• 25:21
  COVID stuff, we encounter young children in today's world that
• 25:26
  have lost carrots and, and we, we encounter struggling little
• 25:32
  hearts and souls every day out there.
• 25:35
  And we have no idea. We honk at them because they,
• 25:38
  they're not driving like we think they should.
• 25:40
  We yell at them at the clerk at the grocery store and she's
• 25:42
  barely able to hold it together. I, when mom died for four months
• 25:48
  after she died, I would be shopping for groceries at our
• 25:51
  grocery store. I would have to leave my full
• 25:53
  cart and run and get in the car and drive home.
• 25:56
  I would have to leave my cart full of groceries on aisle 7
• 26:00
  because I had to just get out of there and go home.
• 26:01
  And Saab and one of the Hospice counselors we I talked to, and
• 26:06
  God bless her, I think of her so often.
• 26:08
  She said she laughed and she said, you know, that's job
• 26:12
  security for somebody at the grocery store.
• 26:17
  If if you have to run out and leave your full cart on aisle 7
• 26:22
  because you have to, you can't cope and you have to race home
• 26:25
  and cry, they pay somebody to look for people like you and go
• 26:29
  and put the stuff up. So you're actually giving
• 26:31
  somebody job security and all the pressure off.
• 26:34
  It was wonderful. That's the most empathetic
• 26:37
  response. I love that so much.
• 26:38
  Gosh, so many good things there, Carrie.
• 26:41
  I'm so thankful for this. And and that's why I knew this
• 26:44
  conversation was going to be so rich.
• 26:46
  Thank you for all of that. So good.
• 26:48
  And and I'm going to move into now and into confidently setting
• 26:51
  boundaries in your life around your time.
• 26:56
  I mean, this was like, again, going back to the seasons you've
• 26:59
  had seasons in your life where there weren't there were none
• 27:03
  sometimes because there couldn't be.
• 27:06
  And and so, but you also have a very busy work life of of your
• 27:13
  own writing and helping other writers and protecting your time
• 27:16
  there, knowing what stories to take on that fit, knowing what
• 27:20
  stories that don't. So there's a lot of different
• 27:22
  spaces and places for you where imagine figuring out who how to
• 27:28
  get manage your time and still take care of yourself.
• 27:30
  Well have come up. So.
• 27:33
  So talk to me about your journey with that.
• 27:36
  Well, you know, I think to be an artist of any sort and I I can
• 27:42
  tell by speaking to you, you are as one as well.
• 27:44
  You have to have tendencies toward being an empath.
• 27:47
  Yeah. And what that sets you up for.
• 27:52
  And it certainly did for me. So I'm speaking from my own
• 27:54
  personal experience for many decades as an empath, you're
• 27:59
  basically pray. Yeah, you're praying for
• 28:02
  predators because you're you're nice.
• 28:05
  You're a people pleaser. You care too much.
• 28:07
  You take on people's problems. You feel people's emotions as
• 28:11
  you're. So you're constantly nurturing
• 28:13
  and and you're traipsing through the world spewing all of this
• 28:16
  love on everybody, thinking if I fill up these these holes enough
• 28:20
  with love, the world would be a better place.
• 28:22
  And these people will be happier and healthier and just love,
• 28:25
  love, love. Well, you end up being preyed
• 28:27
  upon by every type of predator that comes along.
• 28:31
  And I think at some point life pummels you to the point where
• 28:37
  you have to, you have to learn how to set boundaries.
• 28:40
  And, and what I've recently been learning about that is the
• 28:44
  concept of a dark empath. And it sounds horrible, but it's
• 28:49
  really not. And so for years as a writer,
• 28:53
  you know, I just felt everything.
• 28:55
  I felt everybody's everything. I felt all the angst in the
• 28:58
  world. I mean, otherwise you're not a
• 28:59
  good writer. And I think it was Robert Cross
• 29:01
  that said no tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
• 29:05
  So you have to feel in order to be a good writer because
• 29:10
  otherwise, what's the point? You're not reaching anybody
• 29:14
  through the words that you're putting on a page.
• 29:15
  You're not you're not compelling.
• 29:18
  But after life kind of pummels you, you realize you do have a
• 29:24
  right to set boundaries, and boundaries are very important.
• 29:27
  Boundaries are so much more than just running a good schedule.
• 29:31
  What I had to learn was when you say no to someone or something,
• 29:37
  you're actually saying yes to yourself.
• 29:40
  Yeah. And I had to really struggle
• 29:42
  with that because we're not raised, most of us and to to say
• 29:47
  yes to ourselves or to acknowledge our weaknesses or to
• 29:50
  acknowledge our needs. We're not, you know, nice people
• 29:53
  don't do that. That's selfish.
• 29:54
  But when you become a dark empath, what that actually means
• 30:01
  is you are a highly empowered, still open, still loving, still
• 30:07
  nurturing person, but you can smell a predator from 10,000
• 30:12
  miles away. And before they get to you, they
• 30:15
  know they no longer have the right to gnaw in your hide like
• 30:17
  a hyena. Yeah, Well, I have had to to
• 30:21
  learn this in the last couple years in counseling and I've had
• 30:25
  to spend a lot of time delving into my past childhood and my
• 30:28
  upbringing and and all of that. And I think anybody that cares
• 30:32
  about healing should do that. You you can't heal if you don't
• 30:36
  look at all of your childhood core wounds, because we're
• 30:39
  driven by our core wounds. And so in terms of setting
• 30:44
  boundaries, what I had to really sit with was the concept of the
• 30:49
  importance of the pause and allowing the pause to be there.
• 30:55
  And most empaths and I think a lot of women cannot cope with
• 30:59
  the pause. Will we feel like if there's a
• 31:03
  lull in a conversation, it's our fault.
• 31:06
  It's our responsibility to keep things lively and moving along
• 31:09
  and be the perfect Hostess. It's not.
• 31:13
  And we also don't deal well, or at least I don't, with liminal
• 31:17
  spaces. And so I had to sit with the
• 31:20
  concept of liminal spaces for a long time.
• 31:24
  And I don't do well with liminal spaces.
• 31:26
  And liminal spaces are things like airports or hallways where
• 31:30
  you're leaving one known point and you're traversing through
• 31:35
  the unknown to get to the next known point.
• 31:38
  So that's really what the definition of a liminal space
• 31:41
  is. But liminal space happens in our
• 31:43
  lives all the time. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:46
  Divorce is a liminal space separation.
• 31:49
  Death is a liminal space. We are traversing from what life
• 31:57
  used to be and who and what we used to be through an unknown,
• 32:01
  very uncomfortable wilderness. A lot of darkness, a lot of
• 32:06
  unknown, a lot of aloneness in this wilderness to where we come
• 32:11
  out the other side into the light, a completely new person
• 32:18
  with a completely new life. So in order to set successful
• 32:24
  boundaries for me, I had to sit with the fact that liminal space
• 32:28
  has to happen. It has to happen and and we need
• 32:32
  to find a way to be comfortable with it while it is happening
• 32:35
  and to make the most of it, which is where we're self
• 32:37
  characterized back in. But also we need to understand
• 32:42
  that the magic happens in the pause.
• 32:48
  In music, that's where you're touched the most, is in the
• 32:51
  pause between the notes. In life, it's the same thing.
• 32:55
  And in poetry, it's the same thing.
• 32:57
  The pause between the words, the pause between the syllables, the
• 33:00
  inflection, that's where all the magic happens.
• 33:04
  And so once you realize all of that, at least in my personal
• 33:10
  journey, once I realized all of that, I, I came to the
• 33:13
  conclusion that it is possible and very necessary to set
• 33:19
  healthy boundaries, to say yes to myself and no to other things
• 33:26
  more than I had in the past. And to make peace with the fact
• 33:30
  that in doing so, that does not make me selfish, that makes me
• 33:36
  more effective as a tool to be used by God.
• 33:42
  Yeah. And I know that's like a grand
• 33:43
  statement to make. I'm not saying I'm I'm this, but
• 33:45
  it works that way for anybody. Yeah.
• 33:48
  When when you protect yourself and and not in a conceited way
• 33:53
  or a self absorbed way, that is not the way to do it.
• 33:57
  That is not the way to go about it.
• 33:59
  Yeah, when you set healthy boundaries, that frees you to be
• 34:06
  more effective and be more productive and offer more to
• 34:11
  life and to those people that cross your path.
• 34:14
  So I hope that makes sense. It does.
• 34:16
  And the last piece, I love the pause because I was not good at
• 34:20
  the pause for years and I've had to learn to get comfortable in
• 34:24
  sitting in the quiet and unknown and letting the things that
• 34:29
  needed to unfold to me, that I needed to address and feel and
• 34:35
  acknowledge and move through happen.
• 34:38
  The silence. The silence is very important.
• 34:41
  And we are taught to fear it. And, you know, God speaks in a
• 34:46
  still small voice. Yeah.
• 34:49
  And he's, he's a gentleman and he doesn't force himself on us
• 34:52
  into our lives. And he doesn't scream and holler
• 34:55
  and he. It's all in the silence.
• 34:59
  And we have to quit being afraid of it.
• 35:02
  Yes. Yes.
• 35:03
  And allow what needs to happen to happen into it.
• 35:05
  And I also love the pause when you're thinking about whether
• 35:08
  you're going to say yes or no to something, that allows you the
• 35:11
  time to really consider if this is an alignment with your
• 35:15
  purpose. If this is really in alignment,
• 35:18
  feel it in your body. How does it feel?
• 35:20
  Does it feel like a match? Does it feel authentic?
• 35:23
  Does it feel forced? It just really allows you to be
• 35:27
  make good decisions and then like you said, then you can be
• 35:32
  available to yourself and the people that you are giving your
• 35:36
  time to in such a productive, authentic, energized way and not
• 35:42
  depleted and wondering how you got there, You know, I mean, and
• 35:46
  there's such a difference when you learn how to accept that and
• 35:50
  move through that and sit in the quiet and it takes so much
• 35:54
  pressure off having to fill the gaps all the time.
• 35:57
  Oh, indeed, so and and you know, you, you bring up an interesting
• 36:03
  point. If you continue to force
• 36:05
  yourself to help people, you're no longer doing that out of
• 36:08
  love. You're you're doing it out of
• 36:09
  resentment. It's building resentment and
• 36:12
  it's an obligation. And then you just hate
• 36:15
  everything. You hate them.
• 36:16
  You're mad at yourself, you, you, it's just it's not a loving
• 36:19
  thing like it should be. And I2 things I write down while
• 36:23
  you were talking my counselor, I learned from my counselor and
• 36:29
  this was such a mind blowing concept.
• 36:32
  The very simple but all empowering phrase.
• 36:35
  Let me think about that and I'll get back with you.
• 36:37
  That's all it takes to get you out of that uncomfortable spot.
• 36:42
  We do not ever feel we have the right to say that.
• 36:45
  You know, let me think about that and I'll get back with you
• 36:47
  on. I let me think about that.
• 36:49
  Yeah. That's all I that's all it
• 36:51
  takes. And I had, I have a a dear
• 36:55
  relation that had such a she's so loving and she had such a
• 37:01
  hard time setting boundaries. She could never say no.
• 37:03
  And the rest of of people, they're constantly taking
• 37:06
  advantage of her for that fact because they knew she was a
• 37:08
  pushover. She could never say no.
• 37:11
  She would never say no. Even if she did, she would never
• 37:13
  say no. Well, finally life pummeled her
• 37:17
  to the point where she had to work through all of these things
• 37:19
  and Start learning to set boundaries.
• 37:21
  And she got into counseling. She did something I thought was
• 37:23
  so brilliant, and my mom and I used to marvel as this.
• 37:27
  She took a little clear fishbowl and she sat down one day and she
• 37:33
  wrote on little pieces of paper 45 extremely legitimate excuses
• 37:40
  as to why she couldn't do something.
• 37:42
  And she cut them in little pieces of squares and folded
• 37:45
  them and put them in the little fishbowl by her phone.
• 37:49
  And so when people would call with their demands, because she
• 37:53
  knew she couldn't lie successfully, she was a horrible
• 37:56
  liar, they would know she was lying.
• 37:59
  She, she would rifle around very quietly while they were, you
• 38:03
  know, saying I need you to do this and I want you to do this
• 38:05
  and blah, blah, blah, and this and that.
• 38:07
  She would reach into the bowl and she would pull a piece of
• 38:10
  paper out and she would, when it was her time to talk with great
• 38:14
  feeling and sincerity, she would read the excuse on the piece of
• 38:18
  paper. And then once she used an
• 38:20
  excuse, she would throw it away so she didn't accidentally use
• 38:23
  it again on same present. And it really wasn't lying,
• 38:27
  right? They were legitimate excuses and
• 38:29
  she didn't have to hurt their feelings by Hemming and hawing
• 38:32
  and obviously lying. And it saved her life until she
• 38:36
  learned. Let me think about that and get
• 38:39
  back with you. I, I, you know, I don't know if
• 38:41
  I'll be able to help you with that or not.
• 38:43
  Until she was able to do that in lifetime.
• 38:45
  It was just a little help her to do that, but we thought it was
• 38:48
  just brilliant. It really is.
• 38:51
  It's so brilliant because it gives your mind, your
• 38:54
  subconscious, the time to adjust to the new habit of saying no
• 39:00
  when you haven't been used to. It doesn't put you of like
• 39:03
  you're stumbling and you're trying to come up with something
• 39:05
  in the moment and you're not thinking of it because you're
• 39:07
  not used to showing up that way. It gives you that immediate
• 39:11
  response and that allows time to learn that new habit.
• 39:14
  For that new habit to feel right and safe and good like it is.
• 39:18
  That is brilliant. I love that.
• 39:20
  I know just I and I could, I could see her doing it.
• 39:23
  She was so good. But now here's the thing.
• 39:25
  You don't want to say no all the time because absolutely.
• 39:28
  And but when you help someone or you agree to do something for
• 39:32
  someone, you want to do it out of love and out of care and out
• 39:37
  of of being genuine and. Authentically wanting to be
• 39:41
  there and be out of it. But obligation it it just sucks
• 39:46
  the magic out of. Everything it really does, it
• 39:49
  really does oh so good. Thank you so much for that.
• 39:51
  That sentence is so key that just let me think about that and
• 39:55
  I'll get back to you. That's that's your take away
• 39:58
  today, folks. That is it.
• 40:01
  You get nothing and there's been a lot of gems throwing already,
• 40:04
  but if you get nothing else out of this that is your go to.
• 40:08
  And it just buys you time for the pause.
• 40:11
  And then there's one other one that's equally as good, the
• 40:14
  phrase. And I used to try to get my mom
• 40:16
  to say this because she was horrible at this too.
• 40:18
  I'm sorry that doesn't work for me.
• 40:22
  Now that sounds a little bit more selfish, I have to admit,
• 40:26
  but I'm sorry that doesn't work for me.
• 40:28
  That yes, the schedule does. I'm sorry that doesn't work with
• 40:31
  my schedule. I'm sorry that doesn't work for
• 40:33
  this obligation. I've I've already committed.
• 40:35
  I'm sorry that doesn't work for me.
• 40:37
  Yeah, maybe next time. So, so that's that's the next
• 40:41
  one. That's the.
• 40:41
  Yes, that's a follow up. Very good.
• 40:43
  Thank you so much, Kerry. Those are awesome.
• 40:45
  I love those and such simple phrases, but with so much power
• 40:49
  in them. So I love that so much.
• 40:51
  It easy to remember write those down by your you know put a note
• 40:55
  in your cell phone put the sticky note on your mirror if
• 40:58
  you need to remember those so good.
• 41:01
  OK, you touched on this already, but we're going to come back to
• 41:04
  it and dive into a little more taking care of our emotional
• 41:07
  health, our mental health, our physical health, our spiritual
• 41:11
  health. We know we've touched on it
• 41:14
  already. If we stuff and ignore and don't
• 41:17
  deal with things, they're going to manifest themselves in a
• 41:20
  very, very harmful way to ask. So talk to me about your
• 41:26
  experience with that, what you've learned from that, and as
• 41:30
  you've gone through these seasons, where that's shown up
• 41:32
  for you. Well, if, if I'm understanding
• 41:36
  you correctly, I, I, it sounds like we're talking about, again,
• 41:42
  touching on core ones. Yeah.
• 41:44
  Is that true? Pretty much what humanity boils
• 41:51
  down to in my opinion. And I, I, I observe a lot of
• 41:56
  humanity a lot because I'm a writer and I, and before I was a
• 42:01
  writer, I was in the film industry.
• 42:02
  So, you know, that teaches you to look at things and see things
• 42:06
  in a different way. Basically every person that is
• 42:11
  alive that we encounter operates from unhealed, unaddressed core
• 42:17
  wounds. Core wounds drive us until they
• 42:22
  are healed. The, the decisions we make, the
• 42:26
  relationships we get into. And you know, we touched on
• 42:29
  earlier before we, we started the show, we were having a
• 42:33
  conversation about promiscuous young women and where in some
• 42:38
  cases that actually comes from sexual child abuse, child sexual
• 42:43
  abuse. And, but, but we judge people by
• 42:47
  their behaviors and we judge people by their choices without
• 42:51
  stepping back and really observing what is that driving
• 42:54
  factor beneath all of them. And so until we sit with those
• 43:02
  unhealed, unaddressed core wounds, and usually by the time
• 43:07
  we're 5 or 6, we've encountered the first one or two at the at
• 43:10
  the very least, that's usually where the first big thing in
• 43:13
  life came rolls over us until we deal with those, those layers of
• 43:20
  the onion, we are being driven by every single the decision we
• 43:26
  make, every feeling that we feel, every emotion we have,
• 43:29
  every thought that we think, pretty much every belief system
• 43:31
  that we we have, It's all driven by those core wounds.
• 43:39
  So to, to finally get to the place in life, and usually it
• 43:45
  comes later for most people, where we can then turn back to
• 43:50
  the, our little self that was five years old and reached back
• 43:54
  for that little self and heal that little self.
• 43:58
  We're not whole. And that is, I think where the
• 44:02
  spiritual emotional walk is so important because you, you can
• 44:09
  only heal so much physically. Without healing emotionally,
• 44:12
  mentally and spiritually, it's not going to work.
• 44:16
  No, no, because it'll show up. It'll matter.
• 44:18
  I mean, I think there's so many ailments and diseases that show
• 44:24
  up as a result of these things that we've stuffed and not move
• 44:28
  through and not processed. We're anxious, we're depressed,
• 44:32
  we've got high blood pressure, we've got, you know, all these
• 44:35
  different things because of this way.
• 44:38
  It's manifesting through our bodies.
• 44:41
  And so thank you for that. I was such a good explanation of
• 44:44
  that. I appreciate that so much.
• 44:46
  And it just brings the empathy back to think about, you know,
• 44:50
  get curious rather than judgmental first with yourself
• 44:55
  and also with other people, yeah.
• 44:59
  And, and I think what what helped me do that?
• 45:02
  And then there's one other quick thing to touch on with this was
• 45:07
  learning to ask what else might also be true when you when you
• 45:11
  look at a situation or you're judging a person or you're
• 45:14
  judging a situation or you come to a snap decision about
• 45:18
  something. And I'm not saying second guess
• 45:20
  your gut instincts because gut instincts are always right.
• 45:23
  And I think they're there for a reason.
• 45:25
  Those need to be paid attention to.
• 45:27
  But when you're in your head and you're judging situations or
• 45:30
  you're judging people, or you think you have read a situation,
• 45:33
  it's always and again goes back to the pause.
• 45:36
  Take a breath, sit with it for a moment, and then say, well, what
• 45:39
  else might also be true in this situation?
• 45:41
  And that's what a good writer will do.
• 45:44
  What else might also be true in this plot?
• 45:47
  What else might also be true with this character?
• 45:49
  And by doing so, you're opening up a whole aspect of life and
• 45:55
  living and feeling and being and doing that never otherwise gets
• 45:59
  opened up. Yeah.
• 46:00
  Oh, that was so good. Thank you for that.
• 46:02
  I I love that you added that on that was that's so important to
• 46:05
  think about and really a powerful thing that if again,
• 46:09
  it's getting ourselves to stock, if we can give ourselves just a
• 46:12
  few seconds, a few minutes, we're such a such a do, do, do
• 46:17
  go, go, go society that there's so much power.
• 46:20
  We can minimize so much of the issues, problems, damaging
• 46:26
  things we say and do. If we just stopped and paused
• 46:29
  for a moment and thought about what else could be true here.
• 46:33
  That's a key question. Thank you.
• 46:34
  Oh, that's good. So good.
• 46:36
  All right, living unapologetically, both
• 46:41
  supporting yourself in it and other women in it.
• 46:44
  Talk to me about your journey with that, what that looks like
• 46:47
  for you. I would I would say that a lot
• 46:50
  of what you do in your writing world, the the possibilities
• 46:54
  that you offer people is a is a portion of that.
• 46:58
  But but talk to me about your journey with that.
• 47:01
  Of living, of learning to live unapologetically.
• 47:04
  It's I've only kind of, I'm still arriving at that wonderful
• 47:08
  destination. It's been 60 years in the
• 47:11
  making. I I think until we heal, we are
• 47:16
  constantly apologizing or we're feeling constantly inferior.
• 47:20
  I think there's a lot of secret shame that's there that we carry
• 47:24
  and all of this stuff, but it takes a hell of a lot of work
• 47:29
  undoing all of that to get to the place where you can finally
• 47:32
  be and be unapologetically. So a component for me in that is
• 47:40
  working to keep my senses, my heart and my spirit alive.
• 47:45
  As I get older, we tend to get jaded and even our tastes and
• 47:51
  our sense of smell kind of dull with with age.
• 47:54
  We have to, we have to approach life as though everything is
• 48:00
  art, which I believe it is. The food that you cook is art.
• 48:04
  The way you put it on your plate is art.
• 48:06
  The clothes that we wear is art. The perfume that we pick is art.
• 48:10
  The soap that we bathe in is art.
• 48:12
  How we decorate our homes is art.
• 48:14
  How we carry ourselves out in public, it's art.
• 48:17
  Everything is art. And so I think we have to work
• 48:21
  to stay alive on every level and to not be jaded and become
• 48:27
  hardened and cynical, which I think we are programmed
• 48:32
  societally to do and be. And I think what you said about
• 48:36
  constantly being driven, that's done to us on purpose.
• 48:39
  Yeah, we absolutely, if we're constantly distracted or we're
• 48:42
  constantly racing, then we can't sit in the silence and hear God.
• 48:46
  We can't sit and commune with Spirit.
• 48:49
  And I think it's done to us on purpose.
• 48:51
  But that's just probably for another show.
• 48:52
  So living unapologetically, I'm only just now learning to do,
• 49:01
  and it's been a 60 year journey. I think in order to do that
• 49:10
  successfully, and in order to get there successfully, you
• 49:14
  pretty much have to take all of the steps we've just talked
• 49:16
  about. Yeah, you have to grieve.
• 49:19
  You have to feel, you have to heal your core wounds.
• 49:22
  You have to look back at your childhood and programming things
• 49:25
  that weren't healed from back then.
• 49:28
  Yeah. You have to set boundaries.
• 49:30
  I mean, all of this that we've discussed today actually leads
• 49:35
  to then the freedom and the wisdom and the ability to live
• 49:40
  unapologetically. So applying it to my writing and
• 49:46
  ghostwriting for people and, and working with authors and, and
• 49:50
  with Morgan Pierce, the publishing house, it is
• 49:54
  wonderful to to work with someone to help them really get
• 49:59
  their voice and use their voice effectively.
• 50:04
  That is the beauty of of the written word.
• 50:10
  It's different than the spoken word or the the the word that is
• 50:15
  released in song. There's a tremendous amount of
• 50:19
  power in words and in terms of living unapologetically.
• 50:24
  I grew up with my father always saying to me, and I've just now
• 50:29
  come to where I really appreciate it.
• 50:31
  I always applied it in my life because I saw the wisdom in it,
• 50:35
  but I never really truly appreciated it.
• 50:39
  Mean what you say and say what you mean.
• 50:43
  That simplifies everything. And if you can can live that
• 50:50
  same way, then that gets you to the living unapologetically.
• 50:54
  So I don't know if I've answered that question.
• 50:56
  That you actually answered it beautifully.
• 50:58
  I loved all of that. And no, that was a really,
• 51:01
  really good explanation of that and how you've arrived at that.
• 51:06
  And it is a journey. And I think, you know, continue
• 51:08
  being a learner. That's the one way, the way that
• 51:12
  I have learned. I'm, you know, I'm 55, so I am
• 51:16
  on this journey too. And it really wasn't until five
• 51:18
  years ago that I really started unpacking all of it.
• 51:20
  I've done pieces of it along the way, but I had some, I hit a
• 51:24
  wall and I had some things that really got my attention that
• 51:27
  made me really sit back and be like, all right, it's time to
• 51:29
  get really serious about this process.
• 51:33
  And the most valuable thing I've learned and I've really learned
• 51:36
  it, I think especially the last 10 years through some different
• 51:39
  seasons and experiences, it's just continue being a learner,
• 51:43
  stay curious, be willing to be like, OK, I used to believe
• 51:48
  that, but I've learned this now. So this is now I know it'll feel
• 51:52
  differently or it's broadened my view on this.
• 51:55
  I mean, just continually, it keeps you fresh, it keeps you
• 51:59
  aware, it keeps you feeling alive.
• 52:03
  You don't get stagnant, evolving.
• 52:06
  Exactly, exactly. So I love what you said about
• 52:08
  all of that. But you know, you are very young
• 52:11
  for for your age. You look because I would have
• 52:14
  thought you know, maybe 40 by by looking at you.
• 52:17
  So but you bring up but this brings up something that ties
• 52:21
  into the living unapologetically.
• 52:23
  I think age if if seen as the gift that it actually is because
• 52:30
  it beats the hell out of the alternative right.
• 52:32
  So but when a woman hits menopause, not only does it do
• 52:44
  stuff to her brain and emotions and and Andrew pause in a man
• 52:50
  does this too, but we don't allow them.
• 52:54
  They're not allowed their emotions and and loss.
• 52:58
  Yeah, from a, from a very young age.
• 53:01
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but when a guy hits
• 53:03
  Anderpuzz, he just races off for testosterone supplements because
• 53:07
  he's supposed to be virile and and the little blue pill and all
• 53:10
  this stuff. And we don't talk about it, but
• 53:12
  yeah. And, and I used to write health
• 53:15
  and beauty articles aimed at midlife men and women.
• 53:17
  I did that for many years. And my desire at that time was
• 53:21
  to bring men and women together in midlife so that Andrew pause
• 53:25
  and a man and menopause and a woman could be the gift it was
• 53:28
  meant to be. Actually allow them to come
• 53:31
  together with the masks dropped being very human as they move
• 53:36
  through the aging process. So when a woman goes through
• 53:41
  menopause and the aging starts to physically happen, if she is
• 53:49
  wise, in my opinion she will make peace with that process
• 53:56
  instead of racing off to the plastic surgeon to get nipped
• 54:00
  and tacked repeatedly because that there's nothing more
• 54:07
  unapologetic and also nothing more attractive, in my opinion,
• 54:12
  as somebody that used to be in the beauty industry than an
• 54:14
  older woman who is comfortable in her skin no matter what she
• 54:20
  looks like and is engaged actively in life.
• 54:24
  That is a sexy damn woman. I love that.
• 54:28
  Yes, OK, good. So that's just my personal
• 54:31
  opinion about all of that. I love that.
• 54:33
  So that's where unapologetically living comes in.
• 54:38
  You either get there willingly or life's going to pummel the
• 54:42
  hell out of you and force you to get there.
• 54:44
  So you can do it with screaming or you can do it, you know, just
• 54:49
  happy and skipping along the way.
• 54:50
  So I'm just throwing it out there.
• 54:52
  No, that's really good. I love that so much.
• 54:55
  And I want to point out too, and I haven't thought about this
• 54:57
  before, with the andropause and the menopause, we noticed a word
• 55:00
  at the end that you and I have already talked about today.
• 55:03
  Yes, pause. Yes.
• 55:05
  Take a pause, take a look at your life, take, you know, take
• 55:10
  note of where you are. Where do you want to be?
• 55:13
  Are you on that track or do you need to dive into some things,
• 55:17
  heal some things, move in just to think, let some things go.
• 55:22
  Take the pause and think about what do you want this next
• 55:25
  season of your life to look like?
• 55:27
  This isn't the end. It's just the beginning of
• 55:29
  another student. And so taking that pause too, so
• 55:34
  that you can show up continually, unapologetically,
• 55:37
  as your authentic self, the way you were designed to be.
• 55:41
  Yes, beautifully sad. Beautifully sad that.
• 55:45
  Was just the let me solve that problem.
• 55:49
  Awesome. All right, let's check that on
• 55:51
  we did it OK, everybody run with that.
• 55:54
  Yes, OK. The importance of setting and
• 55:59
  coming back to your why and your values and everything you do,
• 56:03
  you are faced all the time with decisions to make on what you're
• 56:07
  going to engage with time wise, content wise, who you're going
• 56:11
  to work with, who you're going to surround yourself in and out
• 56:15
  of your workspace. So talk to me about where that
• 56:17
  those why and values come into play with that.
• 56:21
  Wow. You know, when you wow, that's a
• 56:23
  question. I think the first time I
• 56:26
  encountered that was when I was working in Hollywood in the film
• 56:33
  industry back in the 80s. So I was in my, my early to mid
• 56:38
  20s at the time. And it was disturbing out there
• 56:42
  anyway for many reasons. But I came up, I was given a
• 56:46
  script and I was a special effects makeup artist.
• 56:49
  I was given a script that had the most horrible special effect
• 56:56
  they wanted me to devise, and it basically consisted of peeling
• 57:03
  this woman's skin off while she was alive.
• 57:07
  This this guy was going to come in and was, but it didn't have
• 57:11
  anything to do with the movie. It had nothing to do with the
• 57:15
  script, but they had to have the scene in it.
• 57:17
  And I remember reading the script and sitting there and I
• 57:23
  thought, I can't, I can't do this.
• 57:27
  This is totally gratuitous. I asked the director why it was
• 57:36
  even in the script and he later admitted to me that the producer
• 57:40
  hated his wife and they were going through a hideous divorce
• 57:43
  and this was what he fantasized about doing to her but couldn't.
• 57:46
  What about poor wounds? Affecting your decisions.
• 57:49
  Exactly. And so that was the first time I
• 57:52
  ever really realized I have a right to say no, even though I
• 57:59
  have I'm, I'm in this field and I, I've worked hard to have
• 58:04
  these skills and to be here. I have a right to say, I'm
• 58:09
  sorry, this doesn't work for me. But it was still very hard to
• 58:13
  do. And I paid a big price for it.
• 58:15
  But I turned down that film because I just could not devise
• 58:19
  that. Yeah, make up for that effect
• 58:22
  that we had absolutely no reason to be in the film.
• 58:26
  And so I, there is a lot of freedom that comes from, from
• 58:33
  living a life that is aligned with your values and your Y.
• 58:39
  If you forget your Y, it's very easy to get blown off track and
• 58:44
  most people forget their Y. Once you disengage from your Y,
• 58:50
  then you lose the rudder and you just kind of eventually float
• 58:54
  out into the middle of the ocean and you have no rudder because
• 58:57
  your Y is gone. So the Y is very important and
• 59:00
  you have the Y does not stay consistent and solid throughout
• 59:05
  your life as you absolutely why should evolve and you need to
• 59:09
  make peace with that and let it be so.
• 59:11
  But the why fundamentally at its core, should kind of always stay
• 59:15
  the same in, in my opinion, but values as an artist, it's hard
• 59:23
  to do your best work if you're working on something that
• 59:27
  doesn't resonate with you or that you don't care about or
• 59:29
  that fundamentally flies in the face of everything that you hold
• 59:32
  dear. You can't do your best work.
• 59:36
  And I think if you're living a life that is out of alignment
• 59:40
  with your values, then you're living a life that is not
• 59:44
  bringing out the best in you. And you're, you're, you're
• 59:48
  contributing to life in a manner that does not bring the spice,
• 59:54
  if you will. So I, again, I don't know if
• 59:57
  that makes sense. IA, dear friend of mine, said
• 1:00:00
  something to me about a month and a half ago that I thought
• 1:00:03
  about a lot. It really resonated with me.
• 1:00:07
  She said, I, I envy you. And I think about it a lot
• 1:00:13
  because I'm not married and, and this person is.
• 1:00:16
  And she said, you set the tone in your home all the time.
• 1:00:22
  You have the freedom to set the tone.
• 1:00:25
  In your home, when you get up in the morning, your home is going
• 1:00:29
  to flow how you need want it to flow.
• 1:00:32
  That is a total luxury. And I've never looked at it that
• 1:00:36
  way before. And I spent a lot of time
• 1:00:39
  looking at that and I realized that my whys and my values, I'm
• 1:00:46
  living them now. But there was a period where I
• 1:00:52
  felt loss around them and I, I questioned if I'd made the right
• 1:00:56
  decision. And it was hard.
• 1:00:59
  You know, I never married, but, you know, I was in long
• 1:01:02
  relationships and I never got married, did not have kids for
• 1:01:07
  health reasons, couldn't have kids.
• 1:01:08
  And and so here I sit older, I, I wish sometimes tremendously
• 1:01:15
  that that things had been different or I had made better
• 1:01:19
  choices. See, that's the thing.
• 1:01:21
  My Corwin's were driving me. So consequently, I did not pick
• 1:01:25
  healthy men and I and I, that's the thing.
• 1:01:28
  If you don't address your core wounds, then your choices, you
• 1:01:35
  pick things to just continue working out those unaddressed.
• 1:01:39
  Issues. Absolutely.
• 1:01:41
  So that's where counseling comes in.
• 1:01:42
  That's so important because it finally helps you break that
• 1:01:44
  cycle. But I'm living honestly now the
• 1:01:49
  life that I always knew, even as a little girl, that I would
• 1:01:51
  live. I never saw myself buried as a
• 1:01:53
  little girl. I always saw myself as a writer,
• 1:01:57
  although I didn't know the first thing about it, now I am.
• 1:01:59
  It was like an inner programming that I had come I've been
• 1:02:03
  designed with. But it was a lot of, there were
• 1:02:06
  a lot of painful years. There were a lot of years of
• 1:02:09
  that seemed like drifting. But now I know that they
• 1:02:13
  weren't. They were.
• 1:02:15
  It was hibernating, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because we need
• 1:02:21
  those winter seasons too. I think, you know, we need the
• 1:02:24
  winters. We want to live in summer all
• 1:02:26
  the time, but we but we need the winters.
• 1:02:31
  Wintering is a lovely, very important thing.
• 1:02:35
  And I do think it goes back to the pause.
• 1:02:39
  That is where most of the magic happens is in the wintering
• 1:02:43
  where we sit alone and we sit in the silence and we question and
• 1:02:48
  we look and we ask and we poke and we we rehash and we make
• 1:02:53
  peace with and it's very important.
• 1:02:57
  And and what comes after winter, Spring and blasphemy.
• 1:03:00
  Exactly, exactly. Yes, I love that.
• 1:03:03
  Oh, thank you so good. All right, Living out of your
• 1:03:06
  own expectations versus others. You've really just described
• 1:03:09
  that. I mean, you've really, you have
• 1:03:11
  really done that over time over learning how to do that.
• 1:03:16
  And I, you know, I think sometimes and I, I feel like
• 1:03:19
  boundaries and values and expectations, they all are
• 1:03:22
  intertwined within each other and it requires good
• 1:03:25
  communication. But it's something you have to
• 1:03:27
  grow into because working in the movie industry, I mean, my gosh,
• 1:03:32
  talk about a land of expectations that everybody else
• 1:03:35
  wants to impose upon you. You know, but, and you talked
• 1:03:38
  about when we were talking about values, how you had to say no to
• 1:03:42
  something because it just wasn't aligned with your values.
• 1:03:45
  That's a hard thing to do when you're in your 20s trying to
• 1:03:48
  start out in a tough industry already.
• 1:03:51
  So, so talk to me about that expectations piece and how that
• 1:03:55
  has evolved through time because it's something very clearly that
• 1:03:59
  you operate out of. I'm not OK.
• 1:04:04
  Can you clarify that for me in Chinese?
• 1:04:05
  Yeah. You very clearly, yeah, you very
• 1:04:08
  clearly live out of your own expectations versus other
• 1:04:11
  people's expectations of you through choices you've made in
• 1:04:15
  all the different seasons and parts of your life.
• 1:04:18
  Is that something that was natural to you or is that
• 1:04:22
  something you had to learn over time because you did it early on
• 1:04:25
  in the in the movie situation, you you tapped into your own
• 1:04:29
  expectations of yourself to live out of your values.
• 1:04:32
  A lot of 20 year olds, and no shame on them, would have taken
• 1:04:36
  that job anyway because they would have been afraid of the
• 1:04:39
  consequences of saying no to an opportunity at that point in
• 1:04:44
  their. Career well, that was there.
• 1:04:47
  I mean, you know, it was there. I I needed to eat and I needed
• 1:04:49
  money, but not that bad. And so I think I, I, so I am
• 1:04:54
  grateful for that. I had two very dear parents and
• 1:04:57
  I think they were an, an incredible mix.
• 1:05:00
  My father was a sweet, sweet man with a very dry, wicked sense of
• 1:05:07
  humor. He was a a Texan named Billy
• 1:05:09
  Jack and he was an air traffic controller.
• 1:05:12
  So with my father, there was a great deal of stay inside the
• 1:05:17
  lines because if you don't, people die, you know, as an air
• 1:05:21
  traffic controller. And again, the the say what you
• 1:05:26
  mean and mean what you say. And he also taught me if you
• 1:05:30
  give your word to someone, you keep it no matter what.
• 1:05:33
  Well, so I lived most of my life with that.
• 1:05:35
  You know, I do think giving your word to someone is extremely
• 1:05:37
  important. Keeping it is extremely
• 1:05:39
  important. It is a bond, but I he taught me
• 1:05:43
  even if it kills you. So I had to unlearn that part of
• 1:05:48
  it, that little part. Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  Any any good thing done too extreme turns into a bad thing
• 1:05:54
  real quickly. Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  So I I just recently removed that part and I I still my word
• 1:06:00
  is my bond and I do still I keep my word.
• 1:06:02
  But you know, I no longer would I let it.
• 1:06:05
  Kill me, right? My mom on the other hand, was a
• 1:06:09
  jazz singer and just magical. She just had, she was just magic
• 1:06:14
  in flesh and she loved life. She had many, many tragedies and
• 1:06:20
  traumas in her life. And every day she got up, even
• 1:06:24
  the day before she died, she got up wondering what she was going
• 1:06:27
  to be when she grew up. And she loved life.
• 1:06:31
  I, I don't know how she did it with all of the losses she had
• 1:06:34
  had in her life. I don't know how she had such
• 1:06:38
  magical passion for this earthly plane and being alive, but she
• 1:06:45
  did. And so I think I'm very grateful
• 1:06:48
  to both of them because Mom instilled in the values as well
• 1:06:55
  and, and the importance of being articulate and understanding
• 1:07:00
  words. She loved a lyric.
• 1:07:02
  She could deliver a lyric like Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra.
• 1:07:06
  I mean, she understood lyrics. And I think that's where my love
• 1:07:10
  of words comes from, my appreciation of words.
• 1:07:13
  They're extremely powerful. But I think the combination of
• 1:07:17
  the two of my folks gave me a balance that I wouldn't have
• 1:07:22
  gotten any other way. So I have the big, wonderful,
• 1:07:25
  artsy, fartsy magical, you know, side and then I have my kind of
• 1:07:31
  still stay inside the lines because people could die sides,
• 1:07:34
  but it's blended in a way. So I again, I'm not sure I'm
• 1:07:42
  answering your questions because we go down a rabbit hole and
• 1:07:45
  then it leads to another one. So I'm I'm not really sure how
• 1:07:48
  have I answered that. Yeah, yeah, you, you, you had
• 1:07:51
  guidance, you had, you had these.
• 1:07:53
  I love the different, how you blend these two different parts.
• 1:07:56
  And then it builds a, a framework for you to live off,
• 1:07:59
  to make sure you're living true to yourself, to make sure you're
• 1:08:03
  living authentic to yourself and to sense when you're getting off
• 1:08:06
  kilter. Like, OK, can't do this till it
• 1:08:08
  kills me. Got to swing back in and make
• 1:08:10
  sure that I'm meeting myself in a place that's actually healthy
• 1:08:14
  for me. It gives that framework for you
• 1:08:16
  to do that. Well, there is another component
• 1:08:19
  that I should probably throw in there then, now that I'm
• 1:08:21
  thinking of it, not to interrupt you.
• 1:08:22
  When I when I was 11, I was extremely ill and horribly ill
• 1:08:28
  and continued to be for a few years.
• 1:08:31
  And it turned out to be celiac disease, which of course, back
• 1:08:34
  in the 70s nobody had ever heard of.
• 1:08:37
  And I mean, I had it horribly, brain swelling, seizures, the
• 1:08:40
  color was horrible, my, my skin coming off in sheets.
• 1:08:44
  And mom prayed and prayed and prayed.
• 1:08:46
  Nobody could find out what was wrong with me.
• 1:08:48
  And she just prayed that God would intervene.
• 1:08:52
  And she woke up in the middle of the night one night saying it
• 1:08:54
  starts with AC. It starts with AC.
• 1:08:57
  And my dad set up and he said, what are you?
• 1:09:00
  Are you having a nightmare? What are you talking about?
• 1:09:02
  She said, no, what, what's wrong with Carrie starts with AC?
• 1:09:06
  And so that next day she packed a little lunch and she went to
• 1:09:09
  the local health food store and she got this big, huge health
• 1:09:13
  encyclopedia out and she went through all of the CS and she
• 1:09:18
  finally got late in the afternoon to celiac disease.
• 1:09:20
  I had every one of the symptoms and so that led to years of mega
• 1:09:28
  vitamin therapy and it led to years of diet changes.
• 1:09:31
  That of course made me a social pariah as a teenager because I
• 1:09:35
  couldn't eat everything that a teenager eats and I couldn't.
• 1:09:39
  But she told me one time, I know this is very hard for you now
• 1:09:46
  and I know you feel left out of life.
• 1:09:49
  I need you to trust me that there will come a time in your
• 1:09:52
  life where you will look back on this and realize what a gift it
• 1:09:56
  is because it will save you from a lot.
• 1:10:00
  And I am I, I'm at that stage now.
• 1:10:03
  I can't eat junk. So my diet is very healthy.
• 1:10:07
  I'm healthier than most people my age.
• 1:10:12
  And, and because I, that hit me in my formative years, I had to
• 1:10:17
  live and think and do and be outside of the box outside.
• 1:10:24
  And I think that is another very important component.
• 1:10:27
  And for many years I was ashamed to talk about that.
• 1:10:30
  It, it was shame and embarrassment to me.
• 1:10:34
  And my mom was very open about it.
• 1:10:36
  But you know, it was like, well, that's my personal story.
• 1:10:38
  I kind of want people to know I was such a freak, but now I do
• 1:10:43
  see it and now I do get it. And it was an astounding
• 1:10:46
  blessing, but it made me have to think for myself.
• 1:10:51
  I had to, at an early age, say no, I can't have that.
• 1:10:55
  Do you have this instead? No, I can't eat that.
• 1:10:59
  I can do this instead. No, I don't feel good today.
• 1:11:04
  So I, I, I'll do this over here instead because I'm not feeling
• 1:11:07
  well today. So I have to grow up in a
• 1:11:09
  completely different way than most people did.
• 1:11:12
  And I am very grateful for that now.
• 1:11:15
  And I, and again, it boils back to what we were talking about at
• 1:11:18
  the first of the show, which is the pain of loss and trauma and
• 1:11:22
  grief and how life plummet pummels you and demands things
• 1:11:27
  of you. But there are blessings at every
• 1:11:29
  turn. Sometimes we just have to really
• 1:11:32
  dig hard and deep to get them. Yeah, that's a component.
• 1:11:37
  I'm glad I didn't forget to. That was a.
• 1:11:40
  Really good component and an excellent example.
• 1:11:42
  Thank you so much. And yeah, I mean, I understand
• 1:11:45
  that celiac, peanut allergies, those things were not things
• 1:11:49
  that we're talking about. And even when I was raising my
• 1:11:52
  girls and they're in their, well, my oldest is 30 and the
• 1:11:56
  mid to late 20s, it was just starting to be talked about.
• 1:12:01
  When they were growing up and they had friends that dealt with
• 1:12:04
  these things, they still was kind of that stigma around of
• 1:12:08
  like, oh, we have to make things that way because this kid, you
• 1:12:12
  know, kind of. You're one of those.
• 1:12:14
  Yeah, it's yeah. And it was just so brutal what
• 1:12:17
  we did to those poor kid, what societally and culturally we did
• 1:12:20
  to these kids. It you have no control over
• 1:12:24
  that. And it's literally a life and
• 1:12:26
  death situation. Where's Here's the.
• 1:12:28
  Other thing, carry it even further, back in the 70s because
• 1:12:32
  there is such a nervous system component and now we're
• 1:12:35
  realizing that everything is in the gut, your immune.
• 1:12:38
  System. Your emotions, how your brain
• 1:12:41
  works, it's all in the gut. I mean, the things we're
• 1:12:44
  learning about gut health today are just staggering and, and way
• 1:12:47
  past due. But back when I had celiac
• 1:12:50
  disease, most of the time they institutionalized people.
• 1:12:55
  Wow. And so how many people do we
• 1:12:58
  have in mental institutions that actually just can't handle
• 1:13:03
  gluten or they have food sensitivities that have impacted
• 1:13:07
  their brain chemistry? I mean that, that is something I
• 1:13:10
  wish people would look at. I, I know of people that have
• 1:13:13
  lived their entire lives in mental institutions that once
• 1:13:16
  they were put on a gluten free diet immediately, within weeks
• 1:13:20
  they were perfectly fine or, or efficiency and schizophrenia,
• 1:13:25
  all of those things. I mean, people need to pay
• 1:13:28
  attention to that. Yeah, and ask those questions
• 1:13:31
  and don't be afraid to advocate for yourself in those areas.
• 1:13:36
  Oh my gosh. But you know.
• 1:13:37
  We we have to advocate for ourselves in every way and we
• 1:13:41
  should and that is the ultimate self-care is self advocacy.
• 1:13:45
  Yes. And living unapologetically all
• 1:13:48
  those things. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:13:50
  Oh yeah, that was good. Thank you for that.
• 1:13:52
  Thank you so much for sharing that accepting the layered
• 1:13:56
  aspects of ourselves. You've been talking about this
• 1:13:58
  really already, that accepting all those parts and pieces of
• 1:14:02
  our stories that make up who we are, the parts we love, the
• 1:14:05
  parts we don't love. You've talked about grief and
• 1:14:08
  growing up with celiac and when no one knew what it was and
• 1:14:12
  different relationships over time and saying no to things
• 1:14:17
  because to follow your values and, and, and all these pieces
• 1:14:22
  make up the layers of our story. Talk to me about that.
• 1:14:25
  You're accepting that because you, you have, you have accepted
• 1:14:29
  it. You have acknowledged it.
• 1:14:31
  You, you understand the importance of dealing with those
• 1:14:34
  core wounds and healing those things.
• 1:14:38
  What would you say to someone, because you've really done this,
• 1:14:41
  you've accept the layered aspects of yourself, and that's
• 1:14:43
  a marvelous thing and a very freeing thing when you're able
• 1:14:47
  to do that. What would you say to someone
• 1:14:49
  who's struggling with that notion of layers?
• 1:14:54
  Well, when you have all that work in front of you, it really
• 1:15:01
  and pardon me for being crude. It really sucks when somebody
• 1:15:05
  says, oh, you know, we got to peel this layer back and healing
• 1:15:08
  is, is like an onion. You have to peel this layer and
• 1:15:11
  then another disease pops up, then you have to peel that.
• 1:15:13
  You know, you don't want to hear that.
• 1:15:14
  You just like, I just want to get on with it.
• 1:15:16
  Let's just get on with it. I don't have time for all this
• 1:15:18
  peeling crap. It's it's crap.
• 1:15:21
  Let's get on with it. But the fact of the matter is,
• 1:15:24
  and again, like we talked about with the paws and and that the
• 1:15:30
  layers, that's where all the spice is.
• 1:15:34
  And you, you can live. You can keep sweeping things
• 1:15:40
  under your rug until you have this giant mountain with a tiny
• 1:15:44
  rug over it, a whole mountain of crap with a tiny little rug over
• 1:15:47
  the top of it. That can be your life.
• 1:15:49
  Or you can sit with a little whisk broom and a dustpan and
• 1:15:54
  you can go through the dirt and you can scoop a little at a time
• 1:15:58
  and filter it and sift it and throw it away and then vacuum
• 1:16:01
  your nice little flat rug. And that can be your life.
• 1:16:04
  So you have, you have those two living room choices to live in.
• 1:16:11
  You don't when you you haven't done the work, you don't want to
• 1:16:15
  think about what everything, everything that's lurking under
• 1:16:18
  those layers. And and yeah, it's natural to
• 1:16:21
  fear removing even the first layer because you don't know
• 1:16:24
  what's going to come pouring out.
• 1:16:26
  And most of us, if we haven't done the work, we are like
• 1:16:30
  little pustules. I'm going to go back to my
• 1:16:32
  aesthetician certification. We are like pustules, little
• 1:16:36
  pimples. And we're afraid to to poke
• 1:16:40
  them. But if we don't, they're just
• 1:16:42
  going to keep getting fuller and bigger and fuller and bigger.
• 1:16:44
  It's a gross analogy, but we don't want to be full of pus.
• 1:16:48
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  So. So at some point and it, it will
• 1:16:53
  be the journey of your lifetime and it will be the most, the
• 1:16:57
  most important work of your life.
• 1:17:01
  The peeling back, the poking, the pustule and the cleaning it
• 1:17:06
  out. That is why we are here in my
• 1:17:10
  opinion. And that is the work that we are
• 1:17:13
  called to do. The breaking of the generational
• 1:17:16
  curses, the, the, the looking at the, the horribleness that has
• 1:17:22
  come down through our family lineage and why it was allowed
• 1:17:26
  to be and how it perpetuated over time and, and how it just
• 1:17:30
  continues to roll like a freight train down the track until
• 1:17:33
  somebody does something about it.
• 1:17:35
  And, and I think that's if you're called to be a
• 1:17:39
  generational curse breaker, your life is not going to be easy.
• 1:17:42
  If you are chosen, your life is not going to be easy.
• 1:17:46
  It is guaranteed to be difficult because that is why you have
• 1:17:50
  come here to do that work. That is the work of a lifetime.
• 1:17:55
  And you are not only doing it for yourself, you're doing it
• 1:17:58
  for the generations behind you and you're doing it for the
• 1:18:01
  generations that come after you. It is the most important work of
• 1:18:06
  being human, in my opinion, is the peeling back and the
• 1:18:10
  addressing of the layers. And again, there will be
• 1:18:14
  blessings mixed amongst the pus and the pain, but in order to
• 1:18:18
  get to those blessings, you're going to have to go through the
• 1:18:22
  icky, goopy parts and a lot of people just don't want to do it.
• 1:18:28
  Yeah, that is so true. I'm you.
• 1:18:31
  Did you explain that so well? I remember when I really decided
• 1:18:35
  a little over five years ago now to really dive in and start
• 1:18:40
  really unpacking. I got to a point in my life
• 1:18:42
  where I'm like, I don't want to live in this hyper vigilant,
• 1:18:45
  anxious feeling like I've got to save everybody all the time,
• 1:18:50
  state waiting for the next shoe to drop all the time.
• 1:18:53
  This is not the way I want to live my life.
• 1:18:56
  And seeing my daughters make different choices.
• 1:18:59
  They're not living their lives this way.
• 1:19:01
  There's got to be a better way to do this.
• 1:19:03
  And, and so I, I, I, I went on that journey and I went into it.
• 1:19:09
  I laughed. Now I'm going to go, I'm going
• 1:19:12
  to go hardcore and therapy. I'm going to go for six months
• 1:19:15
  and really hit it hard and then I'm going to be better.
• 1:19:19
  I, I know, I know that's hilarious, funny.
• 1:19:25
  Here I am over five years later and I will tell you if I'd know
• 1:19:29
  what was coming, I don't know if I would have done it, but I
• 1:19:33
  can't imagine not doing it now. I can't imagine I wouldn't be
• 1:19:37
  sitting here with you today having this conversation.
• 1:19:40
  I wouldn't have, I wouldn't be have all the amazing
• 1:19:43
  relationships and conversations that I've built over the last
• 1:19:47
  three plus years, not to mention other, I mean, I just can't
• 1:19:51
  imagine not doing it. And so if your listeners, if
• 1:19:56
  you're listening to Carrie and I today know that you're worth it,
• 1:20:00
  know that it is worth it. And, and, and there's resources
• 1:20:06
  and places and frameworks here to support you.
• 1:20:09
  And that's why we're here having these conversations today.
• 1:20:12
  So you feel like you can do this too?
• 1:20:16
  I hope I'm in counseling the rest of my life.
• 1:20:18
  But with that said, I do want to put this out there.
• 1:20:22
  You need to be extremely careful in the selection of your
• 1:20:25
  counselor, absolutely, because if you get a bad one, they can
• 1:20:30
  undo you completely. And there are bad ones out there
• 1:20:33
  and also a lot of narcissists that are in psychopaths that are
• 1:20:38
  in positions of authority. You have got to do due diligence
• 1:20:43
  and you have got to make certain that your counselor meshes with
• 1:20:49
  your values and your why that they understand you and that you
• 1:20:55
  understand them and that that they are open to being
• 1:20:58
  questioned about themselves. Because not all counselors, you
• 1:21:04
  know, and not any group of anybody is all good or all bad.
• 1:21:07
  And, and, but, but when you are going into counseling, you have
• 1:21:13
  basically agreed with life to be totally vulnerable.
• 1:21:20
  And if you are going into counseling unwilling to be
• 1:21:23
  totally open and vulnerable, then you're wasting your time.
• 1:21:27
  But in the process of doing that, you must make certain that
• 1:21:32
  your choice of counselor is a good, sound one.
• 1:21:35
  Yeah, absolutely. Such important information.
• 1:21:38
  And and listen to your instincts.
• 1:21:41
  They will tell you if this isn't the right match for you.
• 1:21:45
  And it's because nobody is all knowing.
• 1:21:47
  I don't care how many degrees they have or how much background
• 1:21:50
  history or if they worked for your best friend, that doesn't
• 1:21:53
  mean they're a match for you. And trust that inner knowing.
• 1:21:56
  And that ain't when it's telling you this might not, might not be
• 1:22:00
  the right fit. And also know there is somebody
• 1:22:03
  out there for you. Oh.
• 1:22:04
  Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, yeah, quit in your
• 1:22:08
  search. But I think another telling
• 1:22:10
  thing is if you have a counselor that is telling you, oh, in, in
• 1:22:14
  a year from now, you'll be all well or run because yeah, nobody
• 1:22:19
  can tell you. But it's not a time frame on, on
• 1:22:22
  this work. It is entirely personal.
• 1:22:26
  And it, it does need to be self-paced because it can be
• 1:22:32
  dangerous, risky work. You're going to be opening
• 1:22:37
  yourself to looking at enormous amounts of pain and in a lot of,
• 1:22:41
  a lot of times and, and spaces doing it by yourself alone.
• 1:22:45
  And you need to be up to the challenge because it's very
• 1:22:49
  difficult work. Yeah, it's again that pause that
• 1:22:53
  we talked about. Don't be afraid to take the
• 1:22:55
  pause and don't over overdo your system and give yourself time
• 1:23:00
  and space to process each thing as you go along.
• 1:23:03
  So good. Thank you so much Carrie.
• 1:23:05
  So good. So many, so much gold in this
• 1:23:08
  episode. I'm so excited.
• 1:23:10
  Really about all that you've you've shared, I feel as I've
• 1:23:15
  been taking notes. Oh, that's wonderful.
• 1:23:17
  I love this. All right, we are getting down
• 1:23:20
  to the the end here, but and living out feel, finding
• 1:23:24
  empowerment, embracing layers which you have done you and you
• 1:23:27
  continue to do in your life. Talk to me about the impact that
• 1:23:32
  has on your relationship with yourself as well as your
• 1:23:35
  relationship with other. People.
• 1:23:38
  OK, OK, I'm writing this time. I'm not going down a rabbit
• 1:23:41
  hall. I'm writing this down.
• 1:23:44
  When you become healthier within yourself, you make healthier
• 1:23:50
  choices. And when you quit being run by
• 1:23:54
  unhealed core wounds, you start attracting healthy people.
• 1:24:00
  Yeah. Consequently, in the course of
• 1:24:02
  that happening, your life becomes healthier.
• 1:24:08
  So my relationship with myself and and I think this is, isn't a
• 1:24:15
  perpetually evolving process. I mean, it's like anything.
• 1:24:18
  There are some days I think, oh, I could lose 10 lbs and, you
• 1:24:21
  know, I kind of poke it myself. And then there are other days
• 1:24:23
  when I think that might, I think what?
• 1:24:26
  Tearing yourself apart and, you know, for an old gal, you look,
• 1:24:29
  you look pretty OK. And and so it's, you know, it's
• 1:24:32
  it's a journey. It's still a journey.
• 1:24:34
  It's like another thing. You don't really arrive.
• 1:24:36
  And yeah, you got to make peace with that liminal space.
• 1:24:40
  But I, I am a firm believer in what you put out, you receive.
• 1:24:48
  And not so much in the law of attraction Y kind of way like
• 1:24:51
  everybody tries to do, you know, the sacred and all that.
• 1:24:55
  I'm not talking about that. But what you put out in your
• 1:25:00
  world and in your life, you then receive.
• 1:25:04
  And that's where the magic happens once you start to heal,
• 1:25:09
  is you start putting out a healthier version of yourself.
• 1:25:13
  Yeah. Healthier mindsets, healthier
• 1:25:16
  attitudes, more peace, more joy, more quiet, more contentment,
• 1:25:21
  more security within yourself that then attracts healthier
• 1:25:27
  people to you. I have some very dear, dear,
• 1:25:33
  precious, healthy friends that I cherish.
• 1:25:39
  I I am not and maybe this is a failing on my part.
• 1:25:43
  I am not that open to relationships, male, female
• 1:25:46
  lovey dovey relationships right now because I'm I'm focusing on
• 1:25:50
  other things. I love and appreciate men.
• 1:25:53
  I think they're absolutely wonderful.
• 1:25:55
  I I am great, so grateful for them.
• 1:25:59
  But I haven't been open to a relationship in a while because
• 1:26:02
  I've been building the publishing house with my
• 1:26:04
  business partner Sandra and I've been writing books like crazy
• 1:26:08
  and we're and working on other people's books.
• 1:26:10
  So it's my season right now has been being a 60 year old woman
• 1:26:18
  recovering from grief and trying to build a life with where I am
• 1:26:23
  right now. And it's so foreign to me.
• 1:26:26
  It's taken me some time to get my bearings and my footing
• 1:26:29
  because it's like I woke up one day and everybody was speaking
• 1:26:32
  Greek and I didn't know how to speak Greek, so I had to learn
• 1:26:36
  quickly. So a lot of what has happened to
• 1:26:39
  me in the last three years has been totally foreign, which has
• 1:26:43
  been incredibly scary and difficult and invigorating and
• 1:26:46
  thrilling all at the same time. Yeah.
• 1:26:49
  So the when you become more respectful toward yourself, you
• 1:26:57
  then tend to attract people that will also be respectful of you
• 1:27:02
  and your humanity, more so than in the past.
• 1:27:06
  And it is definitely something that has been happening in my
• 1:27:10
  life, and I'm very grateful, yeah, for that.
• 1:27:13
  But it does still fall upon you to be consistent with your
• 1:27:18
  boundaries. And if you see someone off in
• 1:27:21
  the distance that reeks a little bit of predator or unhealthy or
• 1:27:26
  toxic, then you need to be tactful and set that boundary.
• 1:27:30
  And you need to be quick with setting those boundaries.
• 1:27:34
  So it it again, it all ties into to everything.
• 1:27:37
  It's becomes the implementation of pretty much everything we've
• 1:27:40
  talked about today. But it has a bearing on
• 1:27:43
  everything. Once, once you you do the
• 1:27:47
  healing, it impacts every relationship that you have,
• 1:27:50
  whether it's business, romance, friendship, whatever.
• 1:27:57
  It impacts every single person you interact with.
• 1:28:01
  And I think that's why it ultimately is the most important
• 1:28:04
  work you will ever do on this earthly plane as a human,
• 1:28:08
  because the energy you put out there causes a ripple.
• 1:28:11
  Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
• 1:28:16
  Again, really well said. Thank you so much for that.
• 1:28:19
  And it it, it really. Yeah.
• 1:28:21
  I mean, it just it you, you do, you emanate that energy and then
• 1:28:24
  you. But also, you know, you talked
• 1:28:26
  about this, you've mentioned a couple of times that's the whole
• 1:28:28
  purpose of these conversations, to give us a framework.
• 1:28:32
  Like life has hills and valleys, canyons, mountains, and we live
• 1:28:37
  somewhere in the in between most of the time.
• 1:28:40
  But we need a framework to help keep us on the trail because
• 1:28:44
  we're going to fall off the trail, surprises are going to
• 1:28:47
  happen, things we didn't see coming, you know, all those
• 1:28:50
  kinds of different things. But if that framework's there
• 1:28:53
  and we're checking in with ourselves via the framework,
• 1:28:56
  then it can help keep us on track to being and living the
• 1:29:00
  way we were designed to and that we want to.
• 1:29:02
  That feels authentic and healthy to us.
• 1:29:04
  And you're in grabs. Is very important to being just
• 1:29:09
  being grateful. I mean, you know, with
• 1:29:10
  everything that has happened with the fires and hurricanes
• 1:29:14
  and people losing their homes, I have become so mindful of how
• 1:29:18
  luxurious it is to get out of a warm bed and have a cup of
• 1:29:22
  coffee in the morning. There are people right now that
• 1:29:26
  they don't even have that. And of course, there are people
• 1:29:30
  around the world that never have that, but it's just to just be
• 1:29:34
  grateful. And as you were speaking, I
• 1:29:37
  remembered an acquaintance I had one time.
• 1:29:41
  He was an older man. He had a very difficult life,
• 1:29:43
  and he had recently lost a leg. But his outlook was so precious.
• 1:29:49
  And this, this man was probably 70 when I was 18.
• 1:29:54
  And we were talking one day. And there are two, two bits of
• 1:30:00
  wisdom. But his concept of the, the
• 1:30:04
  meaning of life, what made for a good life, He said keep your
• 1:30:08
  stomach full and your bowels empty.
• 1:30:12
  He boiled it down to that. But then he also said to me,
• 1:30:16
  like you said, mountaintops and valleys.
• 1:30:19
  And he said don't ever be afraid of the valleys, the dark
• 1:30:23
  valleys, because that's where all the big berries grow.
• 1:30:27
  That's where all the good juicy blackberries are, in the deep
• 1:30:30
  valleys. Yeah.
• 1:30:32
  And I thought, man, you know, with the life he had LED and
• 1:30:36
  having recently lost his leg, I mean that that was his take on
• 1:30:40
  things. Don't be afraid of the deep
• 1:30:42
  valleys because that's where all the best berries are.
• 1:30:45
  Yeah. Well, and I think when you're
• 1:30:47
  living true and authentic to yourself and you're tending to
• 1:30:50
  yourself well, you can find the gratitude each day because
• 1:30:55
  you're made room for it. You've cleared out the gunk,
• 1:30:58
  you've felt the feelings, you've acknowledged the things that
• 1:31:01
  have happened. You aren't hiding or stuffing or
• 1:31:03
  living out of your core wounds. And it makes space to feel and
• 1:31:07
  acknowledge and see. The gratitude, yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:11
  But even gratitude can be, you know, it getting back to my dad
• 1:31:18
  and the worst of his dementia, it was it was hellish.
• 1:31:22
  It was hell for him and it was hell for us.
• 1:31:25
  And and it was absolutely horrifying.
• 1:31:28
  And when the doctor diagnosed him, he came into the room and
• 1:31:31
  we were all there and he sat down with Dad's file and he
• 1:31:35
  actually said, I think I know what's wrong with Billy Jack.
• 1:31:40
  And you all need to go home and pray I'm wrong.
• 1:31:43
  Because if I'm right, you are in for a trip through the bowels of
• 1:31:46
  hell. And I've only seen one other
• 1:31:48
  case in my career. And this is going to be hellish.
• 1:31:53
  And unfortunately, he was right. But in the worst of my father's
• 1:31:58
  state, there were times when I went down into my bathroom
• 1:32:02
  because I lived with them, because they were, you know,
• 1:32:05
  elderly. And I couldn't.
• 1:32:07
  I couldn't trust my mom's safety.
• 1:32:10
  Sure. So I lived with him.
• 1:32:12
  I would go down into my bathroom and lock the door and I would
• 1:32:16
  cry and then I would pray. Thank you, Father, that Dad is
• 1:32:23
  still in my life, even though he's in this hellish, awful
• 1:32:28
  place and this is absolutely horrible.
• 1:32:30
  Thank you that he is still in my life and I can go upstairs and
• 1:32:33
  hug him. And so even in the dark moments,
• 1:32:41
  thank you, Lord, that I'm alive to experience this.
• 1:32:44
  Thank you, Lord, that you're with me in this.
• 1:32:48
  Thank you that there is hope that tomorrow will be better.
• 1:32:51
  Or if not tomorrow, a year from now, it will be better.
• 1:32:55
  Or thank you, Lord, that that you're walking this with us that
• 1:33:00
  we're not having to do. You are here And and you can
• 1:33:03
  always find any something. Thank you, Lord, that I have a
• 1:33:06
  carrot to eat for dinner tonight.
• 1:33:09
  I mean, it's because there are people that don't.
• 1:33:12
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:33:14
  So it doesn't have to be this great grandiose gratitude
• 1:33:18
  journal. Oh, this happened.
• 1:33:20
  I. Know.
• 1:33:22
  Filet mignon for dinner and champagne about, you know, it
• 1:33:25
  doesn't have to be that stuff. Thank you that that I have a
• 1:33:29
  clean pair of sheets to sleep on tonight.
• 1:33:32
  And yeah. And a roof over my head.
• 1:33:35
  Yes, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that.
• 1:33:38
  So good. All right, We are down to the
• 1:33:41
  rapid fire named 5I. Know I'm not good at that.
• 1:33:45
  You ought to. Know that there's nothing rapid
• 1:33:49
  about me. It's it's in name only 5
• 1:33:56
  activities that nourish you. Five activities that nourish me.
• 1:34:02
  Prayer daily walks when? When I can get them.
• 1:34:07
  I love my long morning walk, 55 activities that nourish me OK
• 1:34:11
  Prayer, reading, a good book, a nice Epsom salt, soap with
• 1:34:17
  candles and listening to good music.
• 1:34:21
  Great. All right.
• 1:34:22
  And five words on how you want to feel the next six months.
• 1:34:27
  Oh, peaceful, successful, joyous.
• 1:34:39
  I would like to feel prosperous and be prosperous.
• 1:34:45
  Loved slash loving. I cheated.
• 1:34:49
  I threw an extra 1 in there but the.
• 1:34:50
  That's all right. That's OK there.
• 1:34:52
  Well, we can blend them. Thank you very much.
• 1:34:56
  You bet. All right, Kerry, tell people
• 1:34:58
  where they can find you and follow you.
• 1:35:00
  This will all be on our website at embracinglayers.com, on our
• 1:35:04
  resources page. We'll share it on our socials,
• 1:35:07
  but take some time right now to share with people real quick
• 1:35:11
  where they can find you and follow you.
• 1:35:13
  Well, thank you very much. I I am Co director of a hybrid
• 1:35:18
  publishing house with my business partner and friend
• 1:35:21
  Sandra Morgan. So it is Morgan Pierce Media
• 1:35:25
  publishing.com and they can reach me directly there at
• 1:35:29
  Carrie Carrie at Morgan Pierce Media publishing.com.
• 1:35:35
  I have an author page on Facebook, author Carrie E
• 1:35:40
  Pierce. And then I have lots of social
• 1:35:43
  media that's just out there. But I do want to let your
• 1:35:45
  listeners know. Oddly enough, there is another
• 1:35:48
  writer out there by the name of Carrie Pierce.
• 1:35:51
  Oh, so it is incredibly important that if you are
• 1:35:54
  searching for me or any of my books, that you do so under
• 1:35:58
  Carrie, Carrie middle initial E for Elizabeth Pierce Pierce.
• 1:36:05
  So the E makes all the difference.
• 1:36:07
  OK, OK. Perfect.
• 1:36:10
  Thank you for that. Thank you for that
• 1:36:11
  clarification. That's important.
• 1:36:12
  All right, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:36:15
  This has just been a wonderful conversation, a treasure trove
• 1:36:19
  of insights and wisdom and resources.
• 1:36:22
  Listeners, I I know there's so much you're probably going to
• 1:36:24
  have to go back and listen. Bring your pen with you.
• 1:36:27
  Check out how you can follow Carrie and learn from her.
• 1:36:30
  If you're a writer, take a look at the ways she can help you
• 1:36:34
  with that. If it's a good fit for you, take
• 1:36:36
  a look at the books that she offers.
• 1:36:38
  She's got all kinds, the things out there that are available,
• 1:36:41
  whether you're looking for children's books or other things
• 1:36:45
  that she's written. I know she's got something new
• 1:36:47
  coming out soon that's completely different than what
• 1:36:49
  she's done before. So, but check all those things
• 1:36:53
  out and, and, and take care of yourselves this week and, and
• 1:36:58
  think about if you have some core wounds that need some
• 1:37:02
  addressing that need some attention, that that needs some
• 1:37:05
  time and some healing. Pause.
• 1:37:08
  That's going to be your take away this week.
• 1:37:10
  It's just pause this week. Sit with yourself, think about
• 1:37:14
  what it is you need. You're worth it, you're
• 1:37:17
  valuable. This is a journey and and
• 1:37:21
  there's so many resources here that we want to share with you
• 1:37:23
  both from this episode today. And I'll just go to our
• 1:37:26
  resources page and, and there's all kinds of, you know, things
• 1:37:29
  that will be LinkedIn our show notes, as we talked earlier in
• 1:37:32
  the episode about caregiving and, and the kinds of things
• 1:37:35
  that are necessary to take care of yourself there.
• 1:37:37
  But Carrie, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:37:41
  Oh, Melissa, thank you. And I appreciate you, this
• 1:37:44
  opportunity and your listeners. I've really enjoyed it.
• 1:37:47
  Oh, good, I have too. I've learned so much.
• 1:37:49
  Thank you so much, listeners. Take good care of yourselves
• 1:37:52
  this week. Take a pause and have a great
• 1:37:54
  week. Hello, Melissa Crook here.
• 1:37:59
  Thank you so much for joining us on the field podcast today.
• 1:38:03
  Finding Empowerment. Embracing Layers.
• 1:38:07
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• 1:38:10
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• 1:38:14
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• 1:38:17
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• 1:39:46
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• 1:39:49
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