Latest / The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero / Jake Trbojevic Opens Up About Mental Health, Pressure & Rugby League

Transcript

Jake Trbojevic Opens Up About Mental Health, Pressure & Rugby League · The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero

0:00
Welcome back to the Running Brazilians podcast in studio.
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I'm joined by the man who's fixed my hip pain, founder of
0:06
Peak Health in Farah, back for his second episode on the pod,
0:10
Mark Travouvich. Mark, welcome.
0:11
Thanks for having me. Back.
0:13
Yeah, mate, good to have you back.
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And joining us online is his cousin Manly, NSW and Kangaroos
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legend Jake Travouvich. Jake, welcome to the pod.
0:21
How? Are you guys thanks for having
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us? Mate, thank you.
0:24
Thanks for fitting us in. And yeah, glad we've been
0:26
texting for a few months. Glad we finally a lot the stars
0:29
aligned and we could do. This We finally, finally got an
0:32
hour where we could all get online, so it's worked out well.
0:36
Get online and get aligned. Very good.
0:37
Well, let's start with Mark, mate, because you're the one
0:40
that teed this up. Why did you want to interview
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your cousin? And like, yeah, what what did
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what? You've obviously got some stuff
0:46
you want to ask Jake, but yeah, why did you want to get him on?
0:48
And. Obviously in terms of running
0:51
for resilience, it's a bit about mental health side of things.
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I know Jakey is a bit of an emotional character when he when
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it comes to footy and just life in general.
1:01
And yeah, with footy, obviously there's many ups and downs.
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You go to the highest level playing for Australia and NSW
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and then the next week you're getting smashed by 40.
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And I know for people, a lot of people that you guys have
1:15
running for resilience into sport active and it's just
1:19
getting a bit insight from that elite level that everyone that
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goes for the same thing, it doesn't matter if you're playing
1:23
for Australia or you're just the average show, they're all going
1:26
through the same thing. It's nice to see everyone going
1:29
through it and being together, supporting each other.
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No. Awesome.
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Well, yeah, Jake, I don't know what Mark told you about running
1:34
for resilience, but I'll give you a 10 second what we are.
1:38
We are a charity that's trying to eliminate suicide in the ACT.
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And we're how we're going to do that is by sharing stories that
1:46
produce stigma about talking about mental health, but also
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putting on as many free community events as we can.
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Running events is probably what we're best known for, but we've
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got pickleball, yoga for resilience, all sorts of stuff.
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So that's kind. And this podcast started as an
2:00
extension from our newsletter. We started to run six years ago
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at at the dock at my pub. And all these people started
2:08
coming and, and I was saying to Brainy the, the founder, I said,
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mate, who are all these people? Because they're coming up saying
2:14
hello. And so we started a newsletter
2:15
to trying to get to know people. But then we've now yeah, started
2:19
a podcast to trying to yeah, just get to know people better
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and and share some stories. But I guess mate.
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So Jake, yeah, for the non league fans, can you just go
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back to your early days, you know, and show you what it was
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it like being kind of young Jake and how did you get into into
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rugby league? Were you a sporty kid?
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Was was rugby league, you know, the only sport you played?
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And then me and Mark, yeah, jump in at any point.
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Maybe you got any questions? I will.
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No, firstly I just want to say that's unreal what you guys are
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doing. Like Mark told me all about it.
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So I definitely wanted to, you know, come on here.
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It's a obviously a great 'cause you know, so I want to say
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Congrats on that. And then I'm just with the
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starting footy. I start actually when I was 6,
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I, my mum and dad put me into Pittwater Soccer.
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So I played soccer for a year right when I was 6 and I was one
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of those kids who was at the back playing with his shadow.
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Never really sort of got involved.
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I was just one of those kids. Anyway, the next year when I was
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7, they put me into rugby league and I was still a little bit shy
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the first few sessions. It took me a while to get out
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to. Tackle under sevens.
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They tackle under sevens. Yeah, it was back in the day, it
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was, it was tackle. Yeah.
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Now I think they've sort of changed it to as they get a bit
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older, it's tackled. But it was back then and then
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got into rugby league then and then loved it ever since, you
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know, And then all my brothers, I think they started playing
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because I, because I was playing at 7, they started about 5 or 4
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or whatever. And we've just been a rugby
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league family ever since and sort of, you know, been
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ingrained in this. Mum and dad were, Dad was
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president of the mode of our Raiders where we played.
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Mum was on the canine. We're down there every Friday,
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Saturday and just, yeah, we loved that.
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I, we loved it. It was more than just playing
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your game. It was like a community, that
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sort of thing. It was a special part of our
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life and that's sort of where we developed our love for rugby
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league. So you had no chance.
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It was league. Yeah, no, no, no rugby.
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No rugby. No rugby, Matt at all?
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No, no. What's the Newport?
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Newport Dolphin? What's the rugby?
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Newport. Breakers.
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Yeah, Maringa, Maringa rats. The ringer rats.
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The ringer rats. Nah, we'll never rugby league,
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never rugby union. Dad played rugby league for the
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Narrabeen Sharks on the Northern beaches and he actually played
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AFL as well, so for the Manly Wolves.
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So he tried to get us into AFL. Tom played a little bit of AFL,
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probably suited him a bit more, sort of tall, athletic, you
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know, that sort of thing didn't really suit me, all that
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running. So I didn't really play much
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AFL. But yeah, it was league in AFL.
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But we we love league. It was just our favourite sport
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in the in the summer we play cricket, but league was always
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our favourite. We just grew up loving it.
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As Mark will tell you. It was just like literally a
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religion to us. So and.
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What was it? What was it about league that
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you loved IS? It.
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Just the tackling or the? Oh, just obviously the night you
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make and like the whole when I talk about Motor Raiders, it was
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just like it was more than the game you played, like Dad would
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take us. So Friday night was everyone
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trained, the whole club trained well down there.
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Dad was always on the Barbie. So first there, we'll last
5:08
leave. Then Saturday morning we go
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down, we'd set the field up and as we got older, our game got
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later, but we just played the game whenever and we'd watch
5:17
every other game and be down there the whole day at Newport
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Oval. So it's just like, I don't know,
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it was just really special to us.
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We met so many great people and just, yeah, obviously you play
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your game, want to do well, but then you just watch every other
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grade and it was just, yeah, really, really special.
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And yeah, we just loved it. OK, so you're indoctrinated at a
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young age. Did you play league at, do you
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know, like narrow band sports or any what did you play league at
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school and what was your path into the NRL like?
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We used to get signed straight out of school or yeah, what was
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that? Yeah, so I was, I went to high.
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So it wasn't a sports school, just a local high school in Mona
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Vale. So we didn't really play much
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school sport, but I was was in like the Manly development
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squads. So you can just go and then when
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I think from definitely 14, but it might have been a little bit
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younger. And then through there I
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progressed into the Harold Matthews, which is was under
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sixteens at the time. It's now under seventeens and
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then through the SG ball, which was under eighteens and then
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under 20s. And then I sort of just, I was
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really lucky, right? Because we, we all were, we grew
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up in, we grew up in Montevale. We played our local juniors for,
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we played our reps juniors for Manly and then we all played
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first grade for Manly. So when I say we all, I mean me
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and my brothers. So it's been a really nice
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journey for a seamless, you know, we've never had to leave
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the northern beaches and yeah, it's been really special and
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we're actually very lucky. And I remember growing up,
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you're from the get go, your tackles were insane.
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I remember watching grand finals after grand finals.
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You'd be smashing the players, winning every year for the
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Monoval Raiders as well as your brothers.
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I remember Tommy coming on scoring five tries every year
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from the get go. You guys, you could see you had
6:52
talent and it's just gone to the next level, obviously.
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We, we, well, as I said, we loved it and I was lucky, right?
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So I had the same coach. So when I say I started monoval,
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I started Mono Raiders when I was 7 under sevens and my last
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game from was under seventeens. I had the same coach the whole
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way through, right. And he was he was unreal.
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You know, he sort of taught us all that from a young age.
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He was so passionate about the game and just, yeah, he gave us
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obviously a great sort of insight and a great learning for
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the game from such a young age, which thinks really important.
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And then lucky enough, sorry. As we got older, we started
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playing Sundays. He started to coach on Saturdays
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where my younger, he coached some of my younger brothers like
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Tom, Luke and Ben at a later age.
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So they all got him. He's coaching as well.
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So that definitely really helped to the young age.
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We learned our tackle technique and that sort of thing.
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Tom had the natural talent. He was scoring tries every time
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he touched the ball from a young age.
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But yeah, it was just, yeah, really, really good learning for
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us, really great sort of base for us.
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And yeah, we just loved it. And then so obviously you guys
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loved it. Like I said, doctrinated what?
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Like has anything surprised you early on in the NRL when you
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finally made it to the big ranks?
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Like you obviously been playing? You knew that play what?
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What's the comp not northern beaches called?
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Met NI think was what the rugby that area was called.
8:09
What's the comp on the northern beaches called in?
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Rugby. Oh, just just Manly Ringo, Yeah.
8:13
Manly ring, Yeah. OK, so then what?
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Yeah. What was it like?
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Yeah. How'd you find the NRL early on?
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And did you play the Adam Cuthbertson?
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Was he? He's a very.
8:22
Old. Two years older.
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Yeah, I played with Cuthbo, but Rug when he played rugby on
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Saturdays and then league on Sundays.
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He's a bit older than me, but he actually went to Pittwater High
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School, so I heard a lot about him.
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So he went to the same school as me, but the first time I played
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it. So I've been playing under 20s
8:38
all year, right? And then I debuted round 20,
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six, 2013, right? So mainly we're comfortably in
8:45
the top 4. Jeff Tuvey rested heaps of
8:49
players because they're already in the top 4 was the last round.
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Me and Clint Dobson, we got to debut on the same day and I've
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been playing under 20s all year and I played about 10 minutes
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that day and honestly I've never been so tired.
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Just the pace of the game, the physicality and I think the
9:04
nervous energy as well because I sat on the bench for the 1st 55
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minutes obviously because you know, I was just happy to play
9:10
one minute. So I was just like to.
9:11
Be the night before. Nah, I was struggling.
9:13
I remember waking up in the morning going, oh God, like it's
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here. Like it's just, there's no
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harder now. I just got to go.
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And I was, yeah, it was. You would have been pacing back.
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And forth that morning. I was, I was very anxious, you
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know what I mean? Very, very anxious.
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And I don't think that's changed my whole career.
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But the first game is, yeah. And I was only 19 at the time,
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so very nerve wracking. But it was a very special day,
9:35
you know, at Brookvale in front of all our family and friends
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who got to the Boo with, yeah, Clint Gobson, who I come through
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the junior grades with. And I burst him, burst him at
9:44
local footy back in the day. So that was, it was a really
9:46
cool day, a really special moment.
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And yeah, looking back, it was just the pace of the game with
9:51
physicality. I just couldn't believe it.
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Honestly, after about 5 minutes, I'm like, I'm going to go off.
9:55
This is, this is too hard. I'm not up to this.
9:57
You know what I mean? Was that against Penrith?
10:00
Yeah, it was against Penrith, Yeah, in the yeah, in the last
10:03
round, as I said, and it was actually you.
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Manly went on to lose the grand final to the Roosters so would
10:08
have been cool if we won the one there.
10:10
It was that premiership or not. 20131313 OK, yeah.
10:14
Was that the Jeff, Unless I'm blind, what was that?
10:17
That press conference, we used to play that on the Brumbies
10:20
bus, yes. When we were on the
10:21
investigation, I think that might have been the next year,
10:23
OK. You know, I think that might
10:25
have been 2014. We was gonna be an
10:27
investigation. I don't know where we were stuck
10:29
on Brumbies on Tour, and we're stuck in traffic on a bus and
10:32
Nick White like to lift everyone's spirits, play that
10:35
video on repeat. The whole team's like, yeah,
10:36
unless I'm blind, what are their TV or bigger ones?
10:41
Someone, someone's got to be accountable.
10:43
Very accountable for this, but it sounds like you're, yeah,
10:46
your debuts, obviously, I think for you, ask any footy player,
10:49
your debut is like for you, for your country, for your club,
10:52
Your state is obviously like a high.
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What are some of the other highs mate of your career?
10:58
Well, obviously what's been really special for me is so me
11:02
and Tom, we, we started playing together like quite young, like
11:06
Tom's first game was my fifth game.
11:07
So we kind of like took it for granted, you know what I mean?
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Coming through and like we're always playing together.
11:11
Sorry, in first grade we're always playing together and you
11:14
didn't really realise how special it was.
11:16
And then wasn't till Ben Duboot in 2021, but say 2022, Ben
11:21
started the game and all three of us played together starting
11:24
and Ben got two tries where I just like realised how special
11:28
it was, you know what I mean? I probably took it for granted
11:30
that I got to play alongside my brother early on in my career
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because it come so early. But then seeing Ben come
11:35
through, fight his own battles, get his own way in there and you
11:38
know what I mean do do really well, that was such a such a
11:41
proud moment for me and, you know, saying, yeah, probably
11:43
keeps me going. You know what I mean, getting to
11:45
play with obviously Tom and but Ben, you know, coming in, you
11:49
know, it's it makes me makes me really proud.
11:51
And then I guess the other one is, you know, getting to captain
11:55
the Blues in 2024 to the that was really special.
11:59
Very, very surprised, very unexpected.
12:02
But yeah, that was a true honour, that one was and.
12:05
Really. Yeah.
12:06
It would be like LeBron James saying what he's playing with
12:08
his son keeps him going. Is that like, yeah, I could
12:12
imagine my brother's only two years younger than me but never
12:15
got to play or got to play a bit of club footy with him, but
12:18
never got to play at the the peak with him.
12:22
Any other highlights? No, Yeah, well, obviously get
12:28
the play alongside them. But then I think like in terms
12:31
of just overall joy in 2019, the Origin decider went to the Esco
12:37
scored on the bell. That was just amazing at ANZ in
12:41
front of a Yeah, I was about that game, that was.
12:43
Huge, yeah. That was just.
12:45
Like QLD streak no what year? Was that?
12:48
No, no, no, no. This is well off.
12:49
This is 2019. They broke the streak in 2014 so
12:52
this one was game one, they beat us up in Queensland and then
12:57
game two we played 20/19. It was over in Perth and Tommy
13:02
we, we had it. Was it like?
13:03
Four we yeah, we won by about 40 and then and then the decider,
13:09
it was 20 to 8, right, 20 to 8. Queensland scored two late tries
13:11
and it's like, Oh no, they've done it.
13:13
Like they're back. Like we shouldn't have let them
13:15
back in the game. They got back in the game and
13:16
then 30 seconds to go, like I think Mitch Pierce threw it out
13:21
to to Tom. Tom hid Ferguson down the wing.
13:24
Like I don't know how he stayed in, threw it back into Tedesco
13:27
and scored. It was just honestly, I've never
13:29
been so happy. Like it was just like such a
13:31
joy. It's quite nice and there.
13:33
Was so many times so. No, no, no, it was, it was, it
13:37
was at NSW, I was in at home Bush.
13:39
But it was just, it was like, yeah, what Queensland had done
13:41
so many times. You know, we, we did it and it
13:43
was just, I don't know, it was so, so good.
13:45
And then yeah, 2024, the win up, win up there in Queensland, sort
13:51
of something that hadn't been done.
13:53
Series decider? Wasn't it that way?
13:55
Series decider in 2024. Yeah, it hadn't been done since
13:59
05:00 right now, only been done twice.
14:01
So that was really special to be a part of.
14:04
You know, it was obviously a great group and yeah, it was, it
14:06
was amazing. Yeah, mate.
14:09
This is obviously speaking about the highs there.
14:11
I know another high was last year you guys beat Melbourne
14:15
down there and you came into the change room and kicked the cans
14:18
over and got a bit excited. And then obviously there's been
14:22
a few lows in your career. No one that I can remember, I
14:26
think it's, well, it might have been 2019 possibly.
14:30
When you verse South in the elimination final, you guys were
14:34
up by about 10:00 or so, 13 to go and you get Simbin off the
14:39
ground. And then you you guys
14:41
unfortunately end up losing, getting knocked out.
14:44
Like with those lows in your career, what, what have you done
14:47
to try and get through them and get get into the next game?
14:50
Because most of the time you have to play the next week and
14:52
get up for it, Yeah. Look, I I haven't done it well,
14:57
like I don't I don't have a great answer for you.
14:58
I've something that's something I've struggled with Mark, you
15:00
know, throughout my career and obviously the NRL is a long
15:04
season, you know, and when you're going up and down, it
15:06
truly is a roller coaster, right?
15:07
But as sort of I've got older, I've got better at it.
15:10
Like one, one thing I'm learning is like perspective, like put
15:14
things into perspective. So like at the end of the day,
15:17
it is just a game. I'm trying to tell myself that
15:19
sort of thing, you know, and just all you can do is go out
15:22
and do your best and like, that's all you can do, right?
15:24
And as you said, most times you've got next week.
15:26
So I'm, I'm really working hard on that and I've got a lot
15:29
better at it, but it's something I've definitely struggled with.
15:31
You know what I mean? We're lucky.
15:33
We get lots of help and that sort of thing.
15:36
But I, I, I am, it is something I'm continually trying to work
15:39
on. Even at my age now, I struggle
15:40
with the ups and downs, you know, I wish sometimes I'd get
15:44
jealous of teams like Penrith that just win every week and win
15:46
the comp every week, you know what I mean?
15:47
Like it'd just be like, how easy would it be, you know?
15:50
But there's just, it can be very draining at times.
15:52
It's very rewarding career, it's very special.
15:55
But at times it can be can be can be tough on you when things
15:58
aren't going too well and. What are some things like, how
16:01
does the club help you with that?
16:03
Like what are they? I mean, that's one thing I
16:04
really wanted and Mark suggested we we get you on is I'm really
16:07
keen to know how the NRL, maybe it's different from club to
16:10
club, approach the mental side of the game.
16:13
Because the All Blacks really led the charge in rugby union
16:16
around the the mental side when they, I don't know how well you
16:19
know rugby, but they choked the heap of World Cups, even though
16:22
they were the best team. And it wasn't until they, they,
16:25
I think before the 2007 World Cup, they took all their players
16:29
out of Super Rugby and they got them all fit and they're the
16:31
fittest, strongest team ever. And they still choked and lost
16:33
in the quarter final. And that was when Richie McCourt
16:36
said not right. We got to understand what does
16:39
pressure and like stress do to our brain and our nervous system
16:43
and, and that's holding us back from performing our best in the
16:46
biggest moments. So like, that's why I was really
16:49
keen to know what, yeah. And so the All Blacks have done
16:51
that and rugby and there's some other stuff they're doing there.
16:53
But you know what, what does Manly do?
16:55
And is there any stuff like that of the Players Association help
16:58
with or how does NRL approach that mental side of the game to
17:02
help players to perform at their best?
17:04
Yeah. So from a performance
17:06
perspective, it's probably more on the clubs, right.
17:08
So we've got a, we've got a mental skills coach at Manley,
17:10
his name's Andrew May. He works with, yeah, a lot of
17:14
teams over the years. And he's, he's really good at
17:16
helping us sort of work out different scenarios, how we're
17:20
going to handle them, that sort of thing.
17:22
And he tries to make things individualised because I find
17:25
sometimes with these mental frameworks, they can be very
17:29
broad and, but everyone's different.
17:30
So you got to tailor them to make yourself, you know what I
17:33
mean? It's not like one sort of
17:35
framework fits everyone. You know, you got to work, work
17:37
out what works for you. So that's been something we've
17:39
been working on it mainly how you deal with certain situations
17:43
and you know, how you react to it and that sort of thing.
17:46
So mainly work on that. We were we work on that quite a
17:49
bit. But in terms of the mental
17:51
health side of things, the NRL is great with that.
17:52
Like we've got well being managers at our at our clubs,
17:57
then they've got so many resources through league ahead
18:00
and that sort of thing. They've got access to
18:02
counsellors, help outside of the game like there is, there is
18:05
lots of help from the NRL. So they definitely do a really
18:08
good, they do really well in that space.
18:11
It's we're definitely well looked after, yeah.
18:14
How many players would make use of that?
18:18
Well, I do, I know I do. I don't, I don't actually know
18:22
how many, but that's definitely, yeah, there's you got access to
18:26
councillors, that sort of thing. And yeah, it's, it's really
18:28
good, not only for not only for sports stuff, but just live
18:31
stuff, that sort of thing. It's yeah, they definitely do a
18:34
really good job with that. I've got to give them that.
18:36
So every club's, not every club, but every club has a mental
18:40
skills coach for like the, I don't know.
18:43
I don't know about every club having a mental skills coach,
18:45
that's just on the club, but every club would have a well
18:47
being manager for like your well being outside of the game.
18:53
Yeah, OK. And they put you into, like,
18:56
they advise you into careers, that sort of thing.
18:59
Like you don't have to do it, but when you're younger you do.
19:01
But when you're sort of my age, you don't have to.
19:03
They help you with that sort of thing and say you're needing
19:05
help or whatever. They put you in contact with
19:07
people who can help you. And yeah, and there's obviously
19:11
always courses that are funded by RLPI league ahead, that sort
19:15
of thing, trying to help players develop their skills and get
19:18
better just to put them in a better space for life after
19:20
food. Because it's hard, right?
19:21
Like, I'm 32 now. I'm like, obviously now my
19:24
career has come to an end and like, this is all I've ever
19:27
done, you know, so it's like it's kind of scary when you get
19:30
to the end of your career, something you think about.
19:32
So it's great to have that support, but you know, I've
19:34
probably got to get better at fully using it, but it's
19:37
definitely there. And So what is it like the days
19:40
off? There's what the not the Rupert,
19:43
the rugby league players or the player welfare manager,
19:46
whatever. What puts training stuff on like
19:48
if people are interested in doing like like if they're
19:51
interested in learning more or, or studying or like how do they
19:55
do? Yeah, prep you guys for when the
19:57
end or the the time to transition comes.
20:01
Yeah. So they've got these, I'm not
20:03
sure what they're called, but these like questionnaire things
20:06
we do. So they gain an understanding of
20:07
what you like and your interests and that sort of thing.
20:10
And then they're trying to guide and advise you to, to into
20:16
things. And then if certain courses come
20:17
up or whatnot, they suggested, and lots of the times, as I
20:20
said, it's funded, might be half funded by the RPA or league
20:23
ahead or whatever. So it turns out it's almost
20:26
free. So they just kind of encourage
20:27
you into these sort of things and like in into like
20:31
university, all that sort of stuff.
20:32
So they are really good. And it is, it is really handy.
20:37
You know, like I, there was one, the other weight that got called
20:40
off that I was about to do. Is this a coffee course?
20:41
And I'm like, I'm just going to give it a go.
20:43
Might maybe later in life I might be a barista.
20:46
So they're just things like that, little things like that.
20:48
And then they've got entrepreneur courses, all that
20:50
sort of thing. So there's lots of avenues to
20:53
sort of better yourself. And I think that's the most
20:55
important thing. Keep your options open.
20:57
So they're understanding what players want because I think a
20:59
bit of the challenge I know while I was playing was on the
21:02
days off the the Queen Bee, we called her, she was like our
21:05
player welfare manager. She'd put stuff on.
21:08
Like we did do a coffee course and she tried to put stuff on,
21:11
but it was really hard. I think in two ways, getting
21:14
guys to get off the golf course and stop playing Fortnite on
21:17
their days off, try and get them in and do something.
21:20
But then also no, certainly for me, there were times I didn't
21:22
want to think about what was next because not not there's a
21:26
bit of it that the dawning side of it, but also like, I mean,
21:28
how do you juggle the being in the moment and making the most
21:33
of your career and juggling that with, you know, preparing for
21:36
what's next? Like how do you juggle that?
21:41
Yeah, no, it's, it's definitely hard.
21:42
Like there's no easy way. Like I had umm, I had, I started
21:48
doing a few like in recent years, as I said, I've been
21:50
thinking about it more and more and I started doing a few, when
21:53
I say a few, a couple of university degrees that I just,
21:56
I just like couldn't fully commit to like just I don't know
21:59
as, but I really wanted to like the first one I did like through
22:02
the well being manager, I worked out, I really enjoyed, like
22:05
helping people, right. So I was like, I'm going to try
22:07
and be a counsellor, right. So I started studying that and
22:10
then just, I don't know, I just, I found it hard to get back into
22:13
study with full time sport. And then I went along the same
22:17
lines. I transferred that over into
22:19
school teaching and I sort of stopped it again.
22:21
So I wish I had to keep it going, but the opportunity's
22:25
definitely there. You know, it's like just got to
22:27
want to, I think you just got to be able to manage your time
22:31
better. There's lots of people who do
22:32
it. They study, play sport and they
22:35
they work out how to do it. Well, I wasn't great at it in
22:37
recent years, but it's definitely, definitely something
22:41
that we're getting better with, yeah.
22:43
If it's any encouragement some or the best rugby coaches I
22:46
pretty much had we're all ex school teachers.
22:49
I know, I heard that he's. Something to do about talking to
22:52
children wasn't like was. He a school teacher.
22:55
Yep, Des was definitely. I don't know how I'll be scared
22:57
for this. Class, yes, I don't know how.
23:03
Yeah, well, how that sort of works out other than I guess
23:05
coaching really is just teaching league or teaching, teaching the
23:09
sports and maybe they got the skills of holding people with
23:13
short attention spans, like keeping their attention and try
23:16
to communicate a message simply. OK, so we we talked a bit about
23:22
like the Oh yeah, can we go back to that mental skills bit you
23:25
would and just give some examples.
23:26
You're saying like they're helping you walk through
23:28
scenarios. So what is it like like on the
23:31
field? Is it just like visualisation
23:34
stuff? And when you said like that,
23:36
things are sort of obviously we're all different from person
23:39
to person. I know the All Blacks did a when
23:42
they started to lose their cool, they all developed their own
23:44
reset button in the middle of a game when they felt like they're
23:47
losing their cool. I think Richie Mccoy's Stompies
23:49
foot, Kieran Reed to just look at the black dot for a second,
23:52
Brad Thorn, like clappies. They they all had like their own
23:55
sort of reset button. But what yeah.
23:57
Can you just share a bit more on that?
23:58
So those mental skills and and the the some give some examples
24:02
on how it differs from person to person.
24:04
Yeah, so like things we talk about is like your pre
24:06
performance routine, like how you get yourself in the right
24:09
mindset to to play. And that's obviously different
24:11
for everyone. Like people enjoy doing
24:13
different things, that sort of thing.
24:15
So you've yeah, music, breathing, all that sort of
24:18
thing, stretching. So you've got to work out what
24:19
works for you, whether you rock up to the ground, you go out on
24:22
the field and get a feel for the atmosphere, you just stay in the
24:24
sheds and you know, channel that sort of energy.
24:27
It's just like adapting what's right for you, but trying to,
24:30
you know, be consistent with that.
24:31
So that's, that's something we've worked on.
24:32
And then in terms of on the field, we've got this low
24:36
performance mindset and optimal performance mindset.
24:39
So LPM and OPM we call them. So it's about like when you're
24:42
not feeling something goes against you about trying to
24:46
change a mindset into OPM. So we try and give us give
24:49
ourselves trigger words that will just sort of set you up.
24:52
So obviously when things go wrong, we don't feel great about
24:55
it, right? But it's about how we're going
24:56
to react and move on, move on to the next job.
24:58
And because obviously what what's happened isn't going to
25:01
help us moving forward, right? So we've got to split the switch
25:03
and we're going to move to the next job.
25:05
And that's different for everyone, right?
25:06
So you got a couple of trigger words.
25:08
Some people use breathing, some people like look into the crowd,
25:11
as you said, find your feet, stomp your feet, that sort of
25:13
thing. So I was saying we worked on a
25:15
training as well, you know, because you can't just go out
25:17
and do it. I was trying to find what works
25:20
for you at training. So when things are going against
25:22
us, get put under pressure at training, how are we going to
25:24
change our mindset? You know, So something we
25:27
definitely worked on. But as I said, it's different
25:30
for everyone. So it's not like go and go and
25:32
breathing. You're going to be fine.
25:34
Like, like I'm, I'm someone breathing.
25:36
While we're out. There, Yeah, sorry, but you know
25:38
what I mean. No, no, yeah, yeah, but like,
25:41
for me, I dwell on things, right.
25:43
So I, I find it hard to get out of it so I'm just having to
25:47
like, I don't really have something I do.
25:50
I just got to tell myself like, yeah, I'm filthy, that that just
25:53
happened. But now I want to be good.
25:55
I want to be a good player, I want to finish this game well,
25:58
so I've just got to move on. So that for me, it's about that.
26:00
Just looking at the end result, just trying to keep competing.
26:04
Yeah, words were next job. That's what we always used to
26:06
tell ourselves if you drop the ball.
26:08
So I'd beep drop the ball or something.
26:10
It was just next job, next job. Yeah.
26:12
So like that's that's it because what's happened isn't going to
26:15
help you moving forward, right. So, but I'm saying this, I'm not
26:18
good at this. So this is something I'm still
26:20
working on. Definitely SO.
26:22
Something that's come in the last few years and I saw
26:24
Manley's doing it. I think this year, maybe last
26:26
year as well as after you score a try, you'll cuddle together
26:29
and and do some breath work. What's the go there?
26:33
I think it's really good. I reckon it resets you, it
26:35
lowers your heart rate and just gets you, gets you just sort of
26:39
concentrating a bit more. Like I'm someone who afterwards
26:42
scored a try or after letting a try.
26:44
I'm very like excited or, you know, Gangreed, which is a good
26:48
thing. Obviously you want to be
26:49
emotional, you want to be yourself, but at some point you
26:51
got to calm yourself down, reset, and then let's listen to
26:54
the trainer, listen to captain. What's our next job?
26:56
And then we get to that. It's kind of like that.
26:58
Obviously we scored a try, great, but what's our next job?
27:01
What's our next focus? So we're letting a try that
27:03
sucks. What's our next job?
27:04
What's our next focus? And the breathing sort of is
27:06
just in between the excitement or the disappointment and allows
27:09
us to hear the message and then go after our next job.
27:13
Yeah, and it gets everyone sort of back In Sync when you do it
27:15
all together, just get you all back on the one page.
27:21
OK. Is there anything missing with
27:22
how you think athletes could be prepared for retirement or like,
27:27
is there even in in like you just said, like and it's
27:31
something I struggle when I retired with like you just said,
27:34
it's there's this sport is this unbelievable roller coaster and
27:37
trying to, I don't know, find the new ride or like, what am I
27:43
trying to say? I mean, yeah, it sounds like
27:45
they're doing a lot of work on that.
27:46
Do you think there's anything missing or is there anything
27:48
manly do that you think are without giving away any secrets
27:51
of the mighty Eagles? Is there anything you guys think
27:53
you guys do well that I don't know that people listeners could
27:57
take into their everyday or just approach to life or.
28:04
I think in the way they prepare you for life after footy, we've
28:06
definitely got great resources. So that's like that's not in
28:09
question, but in. Terms of what, like funding for
28:12
going to do uni degrees or what do you mean like?
28:15
Yeah, well, obviously the they give you the time.
28:18
Away from what about time away from training?
28:19
Or do they well? During the during the season,
28:22
our schedule is, is quite good, right.
28:24
We get obviously days off and particularly with recovery all
28:27
that sort of thing. So you do get lots of days off.
28:29
If you want to do something, you can find a way to do it.
28:32
It does like obviously it's hard being a professional athlete,
28:34
but there's many guys out there who do do it.
28:37
So it can be done, especially on a part time basis.
28:39
And then as I said, we've got well being officers at our club,
28:42
we've got education officers and then we've got lots of funding.
28:45
So they definitely do the right thing.
28:47
But I just, I don't know, I don't think anything prepares
28:49
you to come to the end of a long career professionally and go
28:54
straight into something like obviously it's great.
28:56
Like, but it is, it's scary without having some kind of, you
29:00
know, being a bit scary, a bit anxious about it.
29:02
I don't it's very hard. But they do do a very good job
29:05
at giving you the best opportunities to succeed, I
29:07
think. Yeah.
29:08
Yeah, awesome, because when I rugby tried they, I mean, yeah,
29:12
we didn't know. They do try to prepare us, but a
29:15
lot of guys didn't talk about it all that much.
29:18
And I think. Yeah, and it was.
29:20
I lost a teammate who I'd played the World Cup with, Gobbler
29:22
named Dan Bickman. He was a bit older than me and
29:24
he'd retired before, before I did and I had struggled.
29:28
You talked about just getting sent off in a big game.
29:32
I got sent off in the biggest game of my life against the
29:34
Lions playing for Australia and man, that haunted me.
29:37
That shit haunted me for the rest of my career and I sadly
29:40
never enjoyed my footy again because I never, I never didn't
29:44
have the tools one, I didn't talk about it, but I never had
29:46
the tools to kind of deal with it and process that loss.
29:50
I know we went back to Brumby season and footy season, but
29:52
then I went back to struck playing for Australia after
29:54
that. I don't know.
29:55
I never reconnected with that love of the game.
29:58
It became stressful and just I I mean, social media probably only
30:03
started two or three, four years before that.
30:07
So I guess have they given you? Yeah.
30:08
What are your they've given you guys any tools for overcoming
30:12
like dealing with tough losses? And then I guess and Mark sent
30:16
me through a question and obviously then, well, then we'll
30:18
then I'll ask a follow up about the social media and dealing
30:20
with all that these like these days, because that's obviously a
30:22
bit of a, it's not just rugby league and and rugby, everything
30:25
that's like every, anyone in the public spotlight.
30:28
It's a it's something they got to deal with.
30:31
Yeah. Well, obviously, yeah, I'm
30:32
somebody like take things, take things to heart and take things
30:37
very personally, right. So but I've had great use in the
30:41
resources we talked about early seeing, you know, certain
30:44
people, therapists, that sort of thing in trying to put things
30:46
into perspective and understand that it's a it is a team game.
30:50
Like sometimes I walk off feeling like I lost the game for
30:53
the team or, you know, I like it's all on me, right?
30:56
Whereas it's just about putting things into perspective,
30:59
understanding that, you know, it is just a game.
31:02
Like you're going out there, you've been a consistent player
31:05
for a long period of time. Just one bad thing isn't making
31:07
you a terrible player. Everyone doesn't hate you, you
31:09
know what I mean? So like just putting things into
31:12
respect has been really big for me and aligning with your
31:15
values. So when you're not feeling great
31:16
or you're feeling a bit down or whatever, just realising how do
31:20
I want to be seen, how do I want to be seen as a person, as a
31:23
player, And just going after that.
31:24
That's what I've really been working on.
31:27
I've got, I've got a lot of value out of that, going after
31:30
my values when I'm not feeling great.
31:31
And yeah, I'm just going to keep striving to do that.
31:34
And how do you do that? Because I think and the
31:37
perspective give us like how how do you do?
31:39
Like because I guess yeah, I think I look back my struggle as
31:44
like you just said, you took it very personally.
31:46
And I took that loss personally. I felt I let my nation down.
31:49
But looking back, I think the mistake that I'd made was I'd
31:53
let my whole identity become Ben the footballer.
31:56
But that was yeah, fiance like heaps of other stuff going on.
32:01
But I don't know. My whole sense of self worth
32:04
came from how well I played. And I guess that's why that's a.
32:08
Yeah, that's a big one, separating yourself as a person
32:12
from yourself as a footballer. And you know, we've, sorry,
32:16
there's something I should have mentioned earlier.
32:17
We've done these things. Find your feet.
32:19
I don't know. You should look in, find your
32:20
feet. Tommy Herschel comes in, comes
32:22
into your club and he came into Manly.
32:25
I'm assuming he's. He's a past player or something.
32:27
Who's Tommy? Herschel Nah, Nah, he's not a
32:29
not a past player. He's just got this programme
32:32
called Find Your Feet. It's it's unreal.
32:34
Like if coming to our club just he has a real, he leaves, you
32:40
feel way more connected, you understand people more and we
32:43
we've been doing that sort of stuff and that's been great.
32:46
So that that. Find your feet.
32:48
Find your feet. Yeah.
32:49
So understanding people's struggles, all that sort of
32:52
thing, separating yourself as a footballer to as a person, you
32:56
know what I mean? Like just breaking down that
32:57
barrier because obviously we're all prayer men.
33:00
We don't really talk about things very much.
33:02
So I've got a we've got a lot of value out of that.
33:06
And when, when we talk about perspective, I think for me,
33:08
it's just realising that like, obviously rugby league to me is
33:14
very important. But at the end of the day, it is
33:16
just the game. It is just entertainment, that
33:18
sort of thing. Like I'm going to be, you know,
33:20
a husband, a son and brother. But my whole life, you know,
33:23
that's, that's what's more important.
33:24
You know, I come home a funny one.
33:26
I know this, this is going to sound silly, but I come home one
33:28
day. We'd we'd, we'd versed our
33:32
Canberra, we're up 20 to 6 1/2 time and we end up losing right.
33:35
I was obviously miserable, like I felt horrible.
33:38
Especially camera. Yeah, this was a, this was a,
33:42
this was a few years ago at Brooke Bar.
33:43
Mark would probably remember it well because everyone sprayed
33:45
him at work. Anyway, I've come home.
33:48
I lived in a unit at the time and I had my 2 stuffies there.
33:51
And as I walked in the door I was so sad, right?
33:54
They went absolutely ballistic, like they went off their head.
33:57
They were so happy to see me. And it's just like, you know
33:59
what, I'm just gonna see myself through the eyes of my dogs, you
34:02
know, I'm all, it's all good. Life's all good, you know?
34:03
So I use that at times when I'm feeling terrible.
34:06
I was like, at least Miss Saffy's love me, you know, or at
34:08
least my wife loves me or my parents, you know?
34:10
So I that's, that's what's sort of working for me.
34:13
But I guess people just put things into respect in their own
34:15
way, you know? But yeah, that's what I've been
34:18
working on. What about in terms of people?
34:20
Are there anyone that helps you get through it?
34:22
Like as your parents, your brothers, your wife is there.
34:25
Any Yeah, no. Well, definitely.
34:27
Alex has been like, she's been great for me.
34:30
Do I just? Is your wife?
34:32
Yeah. Yeah, sorry.
34:33
That's my wife, Alex. Yeah, she's been unreal.
34:35
Just. Yeah, like obviously I come
34:38
home, I'm absolutely devastated. But you know, she's like, we'll
34:41
talk about it. We'll move on as life goes on.
34:42
You know what I mean? You got to move on.
34:43
And then my parents have always been supportive and it's great
34:46
having two brothers. Like I've got three brothers,
34:49
but great having two brothers. You play alongside me because we
34:51
go through the same sort of struggles.
34:52
We go through the same highs, the same lows, and we can, you
34:54
know, talk about it together. So that's been that's been
34:58
really good for us. And then, yeah, I found a lot of
35:00
value in recent years in staying professionals, you know what I
35:03
mean? They they actually really help.
35:04
And as I said, the NRL will give us that support.
35:06
So that's been really good. Yeah, we didn't.
35:09
Yeah. And it was what I got hit my
35:12
rock bottom after the pandemic. I retired 2018 but didn't sort
35:16
of talk to anyone. And yeah, didn't talk to anyone,
35:19
but it wasn't until I, yeah, I was in a really bad way, reached
35:22
back, yeah, told my wife. And then she said talk to your
35:25
dad. And then he said talk to a
35:27
friend. And then the friend said get
35:28
back in touch with the club. And then the club put me in
35:30
touch with a sports psychologist here in Canberra, Galen Clues.
35:33
She's done heaps of work, I don't know, the bunnies and
35:36
heaps of rugby league clubs. But it wasn't until seeing her
35:39
that she then eventually sort of gave me the tools to understand
35:42
sort of why I was in the the bad way.
35:44
And then that once I sort of realised, figured out how I'd
35:47
gotten there, helped shine a light on a path forward.
35:51
Is there anything else that I've jumped in there?
35:52
But no, that's right. You touched on it earlier in
35:55
terms of social media and just the media in general.
35:58
Obviously you guys can cope it and they can also cheer on at
36:01
the same time. Like how do you go about just
36:05
putting that to the back of your mind?
36:06
I know even the past few weeks the media's been bit on you as
36:10
well, like how do you cope with that yourself?
36:13
Yeah, well, it's tough, right? I'll say like obviously last
36:16
week, like I don't, I don't go on social media anymore.
36:20
I just decided five years ago or whatever, I'm just, I'm just not
36:24
doing it. What's the point?
36:25
Like all it is is if you do well, yeah, great.
36:28
But if you don't do well, you just get sprayed.
36:31
Like what's the point? You know what I mean?
36:32
I know I'm out. I know I'm out there doing me
36:34
best. Sometimes you do, you don't.
36:36
Need some time, I'm just telling you.
36:38
Sometimes you play well and they tell you you played shit, right?
36:41
So it's just like, what's the point, right?
36:43
It's like, I like, I know I'm out there doing my best.
36:45
I know my worth. I'm, I'm just getting off this
36:46
and I, I would, it was a great decision for me.
36:49
Like I would advise anyone who plays professionally to not go
36:52
on social media unless obviously they make money from it.
36:55
I understand that, but like I just don't see the point in it
36:57
anymore. Like gives people access to you
37:00
to just make you feel not good about yourself.
37:01
So I just don't do it right. But obviously last week you
37:06
talked about lots of media and as I said, I don't go on
37:09
anything, so I had no idea. But I got that many messages of
37:11
people. Checking home and I So what
37:13
happened last week? Some of the.
37:15
Main, I don't know, but I was getting, I was getting sprayed
37:17
anyway. I was getting sprayed for
37:19
something. What'd you do?
37:20
And what they said, what are they accused you of doing?
37:22
Well, I actually don't know, right, because I didn't hear.
37:25
But I got that many, I got that many messages of people saying
37:29
how how I was and people sticking up for me.
37:31
I actually felt really good about myself.
37:32
So I turned into a positive. Yeah, the amount of ex players
37:35
coming out saying this like this bullshit like you, the amount of
37:39
effort you put in and you're one of the best every week for manly
37:42
and yeah, I was saying the mainstream media just.
37:46
You know, it turned into a positive, but but as I said, if
37:49
no one had a message me, I wouldn't have known.
37:51
I generally didn't know. Like I don't go on Instagram,
37:53
don't go, I just don't go on it. Like I've just, I've just barred
37:56
myself from it because I just didn't see it.
37:59
I didn't see any positive, you know what I mean?
38:00
Like what's the point of feeling bad because someone said this?
38:03
And when they don't know what I'm working on or they don't
38:05
know, you know, what I'm told to do or what I'm trying to do, you
38:07
know what I mean? So just I just found value and
38:10
just brushing. It and what about you have the
38:12
younger blokes, like how they all the younger blokes that are
38:15
on on social media and you're like, if you guys talk to the
38:18
the younger players and helping them.
38:19
I guess you guys now social media has been around a while
38:23
now, so we sort of know people know how to handle it better.
38:26
Certainly in our, I mean, when it first came out, we'd been a
38:28
team lunch and everyone the whole there was I mean we had
38:31
one team lunch for Wallabies. I think we're on the Goldie and
38:35
almost the whole team was sitting there on their phones
38:37
like this was only like iPhone hadn't been out very long and
38:41
then Instagram and ever like is the very early days.
38:45
Obviously it's not like that anymore or it wasn't like that
38:47
for very long. We sort of soon say, hey guys,
38:49
this is probably not a great way to interact as a team.
38:53
It's still pretty big, like I'll tell anyone, like I don't push
38:56
it on anyone. I'll just say like this if
38:58
anyone asks this, like I don't do it because these reasons are
39:02
just it's good for my mental health or whatever.
39:04
But I actually I understand why they do it as well because
39:07
obviously there's a lot of the younger players come through
39:10
endorsements and people make money from it.
39:13
So like it's hard to take that away from them.
39:14
But I just think in terms of performance and getting your
39:17
mind right, there's just not really any point.
39:20
I don't. I don't see much upside into it
39:21
because you just get sprayed most of the time from being
39:25
honest. Well, and that's how I've gotten
39:27
to the point where it was like the people say stuff that they
39:31
would not say to your face. And I like this one people, if
39:35
you're gonna go and spray someone on the Internet that you
39:38
don't even know and you're going to spray and it's more a
39:41
reflection of that person that they're in a bad way and they're
39:44
reacting to whatever it is you or someone out there there's
39:47
having a go. So it's kind of AI wish I'd
39:50
gotten to this place because sometimes people spray the doc
39:53
and they go the food's shit or whatever, like they they spray
39:56
us. But yeah, I just wish I'd gotten
39:58
to that place much earlier in life, that if somebody, there's
40:02
people. It's giving constructive
40:04
criticism and constructive feedback, but the people that
40:06
just go on a rant on a tick, they're on the they've got this
40:09
phone and they've got that access to you and they're trying
40:11
to make you feel bad. That says a lot more about them
40:14
than what you're out there doing.
40:16
I, I, I agree. And like some of it you read,
40:19
it's just like not even right. Like it's just like you don't
40:22
understand how I'm coach, what we're trying to achieve.
40:25
Like it's just wrong. So like there's just no point
40:28
reading it. And just as you said, I think
40:29
it's more reflection on them. If that's how you know what
40:32
makes them feel good about themselves, messaging you or
40:34
writing something about you just to make you feel bad, that's on
40:37
them. And I'm not going to read it,
40:39
OK? 100% that's the right thing to
40:42
do. Just ignore it and do your
40:43
thing. Yeah, yeah.
40:47
In terms of like you've had a few injuries or more concussions
40:51
in the last few years. Yep.
40:53
What Obviously you got the rehab, you got the strength
40:56
conditions, you got the physios, how do they get your into the
41:00
mindset returning to play? Because obviously getting that
41:03
first hit and that first tackle can be a bit daunting,
41:05
especially if you've done an ACL as an example.
41:07
Getting back on the field for the first time, does the club do
41:10
anything to support that sort of things?
41:14
Well, they definitely support you physically, like you get the
41:18
best treatment, you get brought back.
41:20
Great luck for me with all my concussions.
41:22
We obviously had a look at what was going wrong and over the
41:26
offseason I did a lot of tuck techniques.
41:29
Obviously I was getting my feet in the wrong position, which led
41:30
to my head getting in the wrong position.
41:32
So I do a lot of tuck technique. I really strengthen my neck
41:35
because there's a lot of science behind.
41:37
If your neck's stronger, it can help.
41:40
Concussion. They split flash or something or
41:42
yeah like like I'm not sure what they said.
41:45
Diminishing is the impact. So if you're stronger in the
41:47
neck, yeah, potentially, yeah, it's gonna help a little bit.
41:50
If if it you can get any help, I was at the stage where I'm going
41:53
to give it a go, right. So I was really worked on my
41:55
neck strength and then obviously the headgear.
41:56
So we, yeah, we really went after that.
42:00
And then obviously mentally we've got people around the
42:03
around the club who can help you out.
42:05
I think also being in a sports environment, there's always
42:08
people who have been through these things.
42:10
So there's always people to lean on and people who have
42:12
experienced it. So there's definitely lots of
42:13
support around and being in a team environment that all the
42:17
boys really get behind people when they get injured or when
42:19
they're out and that sort of thing.
42:20
So I think people do find a lot of support, but it probably is
42:24
hard when you're going through a long rehab and you feel like
42:27
there's no end goal or whatever. And just so many small sessions,
42:32
just so sorry, so many sessions you got to do over, you know,
42:34
six to six months or something. If it's an ACL and just you
42:37
don't see an end goal, that probably is really hard, but
42:40
there is lots of people around you.
42:41
And so you that yeah, your club works hard to keep you connected
42:43
with the team even though you're on totally different training
42:46
schedule and. Yeah, yeah.
42:47
No, they definitely work hard to sort of align the training
42:50
schedules. Like lots of the time they'll
42:53
work out. So say a rehab, they're on a
42:55
different schedule as in like we'll have weights fueled
42:58
whatever, but that'll work out. So their weights can be at the
43:00
same time, but they might obviously different programme
43:03
there. When we're on field, they'll be
43:04
doing the running, but they'll be on the side obviously on
43:07
another field, whatever, doing their conditioning, all their
43:09
kind of rehab running. So they do try and connect it
43:11
all up. And then we obviously at
43:14
training when you're there for, you're there all day, but you're
43:16
not training all day. So you've got lots of time to,
43:18
you know, get around the boys and that sort of thing and do
43:20
things together. Yeah, keeping part of the team.
43:23
I guess that's why we why we played.
43:25
We love being around the boys. That's.
43:27
Right. Yeah.
43:28
Right. More than anything that was
43:29
yeah. And there's, I mean, and you'll
43:31
probably say the same when you were tired.
43:32
But when you look back, it was the people you played with,
43:35
absolutely the hot, the people you had the big wins with.
43:37
That's like the the things that stick out most to me when I
43:41
think of those big matches. It's not just that we won.
43:42
It was like the plays that your teammates when they put their
43:46
body on the line and make their tackle or even little stuff in
43:49
the week leading up to the game, like I mean, World Cup win when
43:53
we won a quarterfinal. One of my favourite memories was
43:55
rooming with my mate Pat McCabe that whole week and we were both
43:59
with Patty. I had a bad back here.
44:01
He had to get a shoulder recall for the tournament.
44:03
But we were both pretty dosed up to the eyeballs on Tramadol to
44:07
get through. And we just go to training and
44:09
go back to the hotel and watch Seinfeld.
44:10
But but how he, yeah, they can see how he went and played that
44:14
weekend against the Springboks when they all knew he had a bunk
44:17
shoulder and they sent all the traffic down his channel and he
44:19
sat every single one of them on their backside.
44:22
That's just, like, the proudest. I don't know.
44:24
That's one of the highlights, I guess, in my career.
44:26
Shout out to Patty Mack if he's listening.
44:30
One last question from me and then we've got a few we've got a
44:33
new segment where we've got a few of our listeners have sent a
44:35
few questions in mates. So we've got a lot of lot of
44:38
league fans in the down here in the nation's capital in the
44:41
running for Zooids community. Final question from me, what
44:45
would you tell a young player coming through to the NRL?
44:48
Hey, what would? You tell them, yeah, no, my my
44:51
thing now is just just to enjoy it.
44:53
Like sometimes it just, I don't know, it gets the better of you.
44:57
Like you overthink everything. You, you know, mentally it ends
45:02
up quite hard. You just got to enjoy it.
45:03
That's when you play your best footy.
45:04
That's when you feel your best. As I said, when you're mentally
45:08
feeling great, that's when I think people do their best work.
45:10
So my thing is just enjoy it. It's just a game.
45:13
You're out there having fun. You get, you know, obviously
45:14
we're lucky enough to get paid to what to do what we love, but
45:17
you're doing what you love. Go out there, have some fun,
45:19
enjoy it. That's when you're at your best.
45:20
So that's, that's, that's my #1. 100%.
45:23
I just got one more question as well.
45:25
Coming when you first came on the scene, you're with the
45:29
grand, they just finished the grand final against the
45:31
Roosters. Was it that you when you first
45:33
came in? My debut was 2013, yeah.
45:37
Yeah, so you were with Glenn Stewart, Brett Stewart.
45:40
What now? What now?
45:42
Yeah, a few legends in the Manly team.
45:45
What's the difference between that team when you first started
45:48
to the team currently? Oh yeah, it's a, that's a well,
45:53
obviously they are a very successful side.
45:54
So they'll multiple premierships, just just winners,
45:57
you know what I mean? Like that was very cool to sort
46:00
of say that first start out when I was sort of at the back end of
46:05
their career, you know, you really got a good understanding
46:07
of why they're so successful, how tight they were.
46:10
That's what you know, just great rugby league players are.
46:12
They still involved in the club? Do they still keep them round
46:14
and the. Yeah, no, they're definitely,
46:16
definitely all around, not like in a everyday capacity, but the
46:21
Nah. But they're, they're still all
46:23
around, still involved, very passionate about the club, you
46:25
know what I mean? You learn a lot about what the
46:28
club was built on from those sort of guys.
46:30
You know how passionate they are just.
46:33
Yeah, very, very special. I understand why they are so
46:35
successful as well. You know, they're very, very
46:37
good players. Just yeah.
46:39
What is the Sea Eagles built on? Oh, I think hard work, just
46:45
passion. I think the mainly community is
46:47
just, I don't know, really tight that sort of thing.
46:50
They just get behind each other back each other.
46:52
I think they they back in their day, obviously you can't now, so
46:56
I'm not saying this, but they just played by a code, you know
46:58
what I mean? They just backed each other.
47:00
They just even like you think of the battle of Brookie.
47:02
I'm not looking for fight, but see how like a punch ONS.
47:06
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm not advocating for that, but I'm
47:09
just saying when the thing happened there was like 8 manly
47:13
blokes there for it was just like they just backed each
47:15
other, you know what I mean? Yeah.
47:16
I was sitting on yeah, after that one.
47:18
That was good. Who was that against?
47:19
Yeah. Melbourne, Melbourne.
47:21
That's why a strong rivalry against Melbourne.
47:23
Especially ask Mark he, he knows it all.
47:27
But yeah, just, yeah, they just played by code and backed each
47:31
other and they were that tight on and off the field, you know?
47:33
So I think that's what made them such a good side.
47:35
Yeah, awesome. That's the some of the Brahms
47:37
were at their best was they reinvented a bit how rugby was
47:41
played, But they they were like super tight.
47:44
A lot of guys weren't from Canberra, they're all from
47:47
Sydney or Brisbane. There was a few great local
47:49
talent, but it was like they everyone lived in the same
47:51
suburb. They spent all the time away
47:53
from training together. So it's good to hear the Eagles
47:56
are the very well the same Sands, the Battle of the Brookie
48:00
bit. But there's a Brahms boys.
48:02
None of us could punch very hard a little bit a.
48:04
Little bit and not I don't think they could punch either.
48:08
They're still have a go. OK.
48:10
Yeah. Well, first, OK, so that this
48:11
ties into our first question. So our first, I don't know if
48:14
we've got any music for our like the our segments where we've got
48:18
our listener question segment. So Glenn from Maria asked Jake,
48:22
if you and all your brothers entered a ring, who would be the
48:26
last man standing? Oh, OK.
48:31
If it's like. Drive Mark in there as well and
48:32
your cousin. He's out first.
48:35
If it's like out and out, grapple, whatever, I'll be very
48:39
hard to beat. I'll be very hard to beat.
48:41
But if it's like boxing, punching on I, I think Luke who
48:46
doesn't play footy, I think he'd flog us all because we cannot,
48:49
we cannot fight. And he's, he's a bit of a boxer.
48:51
So is he? The youngest or.
48:53
The No. Ben's the youngest.
48:54
He's between Ben and Tom. OK.
48:57
But if it's a bit of reach, you know, being a bit tall, that he
49:00
might have, Yeah. Full back you know he's.
49:02
Back sorry yeah so we. Won't go the distance.
49:04
You know what I mean once I get once I get this fat head in
49:06
tight, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll get the win all.
49:09
Right. And then another one.
49:12
Matt from Bermagui asks Jake what's doing with that headgear.
49:18
Yeah, fair call. I think after last year, as I
49:22
said, I was willing to give everything a go and I think I
49:24
was silly if I didn't give it a go.
49:26
There's a lot of there's. So can you.
49:28
I haven't seen the headgear. What's the.
49:30
This is just a question from Matt.
49:32
What? Yeah.
49:33
What's the guy? Was it?
49:34
Yeah. Why is?
49:36
He yeah, no, it's a new, it's a new product.
49:38
It's a the headgears, the Headgears that are normally out
49:42
there. Did you used to wear Hickey?
49:44
I wear a Canterbury early in my career and then I just started
49:47
taping my ears just so I didn't get.
49:49
Yeah, so like they're more, I reckon they're good for
49:52
cauliflowers, right? They protect your ears, they
49:54
don't really have much padding, that sort of thing, Right.
49:56
I. Still got concussion wear in
49:57
them. Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
49:59
They don't really do much right, whereas this one's got a lot of
50:02
padding. There's some research behind it
50:04
that it actually stops your brain accelerating as much and
50:07
it reduces the force and it definitely the padding.
50:09
Look, look, there'll be a photo of it.
50:11
Look at the photo. There's lots of padding.
50:13
There's little like lots of yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:17
It like obviously I'm not out there to win the fashion
50:20
contest. I'm literally trying to protect
50:21
my head. And after last year, exactly
50:24
after last year, I was silly not to give it a go.
50:27
There's research behind it I think can make the game safer.
50:30
And hopefully by me wearing it, other people you know, might
50:33
give it a go as well because. Sorry if I jump in on the seat
50:37
on the concussion, but how much of that is a conversation around
50:41
concussion and stuff? Because Vicks, who passed away,
50:45
his family, there was a big news story where they blame CTE.
50:48
So the yeah, I can't work. What's CT?
50:51
What's the can? You're the scientist or the
50:54
physiologist. Yeah, Mark, you should know
50:56
this. What CTE?
50:57
They actually something turned dilophopy or something like.
51:01
I'm having a mind blank as to what it actually stands for but.
51:04
But it's something, I guess, yeah, throughout our my career,
51:06
the definite the. Head.
51:08
Knocks. The head knocks, well, it's the
51:09
result of lots of head knocks, lots of head, lots of head
51:11
knocks, lots of sorry, no, I'm just joking.
51:15
How much do they talk about that in league?
51:17
The head knocks stuff because I guess in rugby circles, World
51:20
rugby's doing so much now that they're is a lawsuit of a lot of
51:24
past players trying to sue World Rugby 2015.
51:27
Lots of past players in the NFL sued the NFL successfully, but
51:31
there was a it's that settled out of court and so the NFL
51:34
can't be sued anymore. Is there like like do the
51:38
players feel like the NRL's doing a lot too?
51:41
Because I know people would get the shits.
51:42
Well, in rugby, they're like fans are blowing up at the game.
51:45
You know, the refs are doing a lot to someone, even tackles
51:48
like the collarbone, the ref saying that's too high.
51:51
And so rugby's probably gone a long way to try and make the
51:54
game really safe. But then you've got fans blowing
51:56
up. I mean, where's where's rugby
51:59
league at with that? And do the players talk about,
52:01
you know, the head knocks and worrying about that?
52:03
Because it's something I guess for me as a retired player, I
52:06
think my brains are, I've had, I know I've met four or five
52:09
concussions through my life, couple at school, couple I was
52:12
playing. But I don't know, I worry
52:15
sometimes maybe it's a boogeyman that like I've got something
52:18
going on in my brain that I can't do anything about and
52:20
actually makes me feel worse. I'd rather just sort of kind of
52:22
be in denial about it. But is that something you boys
52:25
talk about? Think about.
52:28
We don't necessarily talk about, you know, potential problems
52:31
down the line. I'll be honest with you, but the
52:33
NRL is doing a great job with concussions.
52:35
Like I'm not sure how much NRL you've watched lately, but any
52:38
form of head knock that's identified by there's an
52:42
independent doctor right on the side they're watching every
52:45
tackle whatever. If they see something that is
52:47
potentially a head knock, they signal to the ref, the ref stops
52:50
the game, they get that person off and he's assessed right.
52:53
And then they call it category one and category 2.
52:56
So category one is if the player, which I had three of
52:59
last year, the player shows clear signs of concussion like
53:02
stumbles, falls over, whatever, they're just ruled out out of
53:06
the game and then you're out for 11 days there's.
53:08
No 11 days minimum 11 days so. If you go in, you know the, the
53:12
concussion where your eyes wobble, you fall back and like
53:16
you're right, you clearly can cast, you're straight off.
53:19
You don't return that game and you you're out for 11 days.
53:24
So you missed the next week. Then they got the category 2
53:26
where potentially concussion you go off and you you've already
53:30
performed a scat test in the preseason.
53:33
So they've got your baseline, you do the scat test then and
53:37
there you got 15 minutes and then the doctor either fails you
53:40
or passes you and you can obviously if you fail, you're
53:43
done, you're out for 11 days. If you pass you can return to
53:46
playoff 15 minutes. So they're doing a really good
53:48
job with that. I think they're really got the
53:52
right spot. Also with the rules.
53:53
Like there was a around Mark would remember I reckon 3 or 4
53:57
years ago where they decided anything similar to rugby,
54:00
anything remotely high was a penalty and people were seen
54:02
being left, right and centre. I think games are ending up 11
54:05
on 11, you know, and bands were filthy.
54:07
So I think they've got really right with the way they
54:10
adjudicate the games. And then they've got it right
54:12
with how they monitor and manage the concussions because, yeah,
54:16
if anyone looks like they might be concussed, they're often
54:18
assessed and if they are concussed, out for 11 days.
54:20
So it's pretty pretty like black and white, which is.
54:23
They're doing, they're doing, but you feel like they're being
54:25
very proactive and they're doing a good job to look after, look
54:28
after you guys. Without killing a.
54:30
Spectacle of the game. Without doubt.
54:33
And there's independent doctors there too because obviously,
54:35
like with NRL teams, everyone's trying to get competitive
54:39
advantage. You know, if a club
54:41
representative was assessing something, yeah, you know, you
54:44
might go to blind eye for the. Grand final.
54:46
Oh yeah, that's what I. Mean, yeah, whereas it's if it's
54:48
an independent, independent doctor, you know, no arguing.
54:52
Yeah. And that's it.
54:53
And they're looking, they're looking at every tackle, you
54:55
know, so they know it's. Yeah, a bit more in terms of the
54:59
concussion space. So the issue isn't how many
55:02
concussions you've had during your career.
55:03
It's if you recovered in in that time.
55:05
How quick you recover. Or not so much how quick you
55:08
recover if you've actually recovered.
55:10
So some of the research coming out just saying it can take up
55:12
to 40 days to throw that concussion to recover,
55:16
regardless if you're symptomatic or not.
55:18
So that's why the research coming out these days is it's
55:22
going to go a lot more into technology, particularly looking
55:25
at eyes. Our reflexive eye movements are
55:27
a lot indication of how the brain is recovering and how the
55:30
brain is responding and. Then they got mouth guards out
55:33
that measure the force as well. Yeah, measuring the G force.
55:36
The G force. Of actual collision.
55:37
And yeah, potentially how how many G forces are contributing
55:41
to a concussion. But also you think about rugby
55:46
league, it's 11 days and the research is showing it's 40
55:49
days. That's a big difference between
55:51
the two. But also you've got all the
55:53
stakeholders, you got people getting paid $1,000,000 a year
55:56
to play, you got sponsors, you got that.
55:58
There's a lot of pressure going on potentially.
56:00
That's why it's only at 11 days, even though it can take up to 40
56:04
days. And you guys, even though you're
56:06
not playing in 11 days, you're back training potentially non
56:09
contact. So there's a lot of risk
56:11
involved in contact sport. But you guys sign up knowing
56:14
that risk as a elite sport, as a contact sport.
56:17
So before you you get your boots on, you know that's a risk.
56:22
That's the thing, I think. Yeah, as you said, 40 days, 11
56:26
days, whatever. I think they're doing the best
56:28
they can. They 11 days major out for the
56:29
next week. That's sort of guaranteed Once
56:32
you start getting longer and longer that people would get
56:35
annoyed as you said, the stakeholders or whatnot.
56:37
But we do sign up for it. We understand what injuries
56:41
could be involved, head collisions could be involved,
56:42
that sort of thing. But it's just about, you know,
56:45
protecting yourself as best as possible.
56:46
But it's definitely a risk going out there.
56:48
But that's not. You don't know that the past
56:50
players think about that because that's what the that's exactly
56:53
what like the the lawsuit, the rugby lawsuit, the guys that
56:55
played probably finished by maybe 2010, I think so it's like
57:00
late 90s, early 20 noughties or whatever that decade's called.
57:06
They said, yeah, we knew and knew retire our bodies would be
57:08
in pieces, but we didn't know our brains would be.
57:10
So that that's what they're suing for.
57:12
But. The the issue there is the
57:14
research and concussion has gone way further in the last 10-15
57:19
years than what they knew then. Yeah, like back then you would
57:21
get a concussion and you would literally be back on the field
57:25
that. Game they literally go, I'd say
57:27
people like stumble and then they're they're on Martin.
57:30
Lang's I'd hate to think what Martin Lang's bride's at now.
57:33
If Martin Lang, if you're listening, I love watching your
57:35
play, mate. But look, Buddy.
57:36
Or Dallas Johnson. Even think about the Mark
57:39
Carroll and Paul Harrigan here, you know what the kickoff like,
57:44
crazy collisions. And then back in those days, it
57:46
was like you had to get up or you were soft.
57:48
Yeah, but that's the thing, because they didn't know
57:50
anything about it. It doesn't even take a head nod
57:52
like Nathan Brown running off the back fence, running into
57:55
four players. The G forces that he gets hit at
57:58
that can create a concussion whether he gets hit in the head
58:00
or not. So.
58:02
Yeah, crazy. I didn't even think of that.
58:04
No, that's awesome to hear. That's that's awesome to hear
58:06
the games looking after you guys.
58:08
Jake, last one before I let you go.
58:10
Who would you like to see on the Alpharab pod next or who should
58:13
we interview? Oh, geez, OK, you know what, I,
58:20
I, I want you to look into because you're doing the suicide
58:24
stuff. I I love that sort of stuff.
58:26
I'm an ambassador for Gotcha for Life.
58:28
We actually played in the Gotcha for Life Cup yesterday.
58:30
It's a great 'cause. So someone like a Gus Warland,
58:34
Yeah. Or who's that?
58:36
Gus Wallen. He has got you for life, which
58:38
is mental health sort of foundation.
58:43
Or look up find your feet, Tommy Herschel.
58:46
You'll love some of his stuff. It'd be.
58:48
Awesome. You just, you just love that.
58:50
I reckon one of them too, if you can.
58:51
Right, unreal done Mark. Any other things for cuz or?
58:55
Nah, all good, just hopefully get a win next week.
58:58
Oh, tell me about it. That'd be good for the mental.
59:01
Answer the result you know it's. Good for mental health, just
59:03
getting wins every week. Honestly Panthers, if you're a
59:06
pen of a Panther you just literally have the best mental
59:09
health ever. And yeah, post win beers is the
59:12
best thing. Oh yeah, Honestly, best thing
59:14
ever. Beers.
59:14
Well, yeah, beers in the change room after a game.
59:16
Nothing better for your mental health than that.
59:18
Good bonding literally after a good win.
59:21
Jake. If they only.
59:21
Win next week would be great, yeah.
59:23
That don't yeah, don't lose the Roosters again.
59:25
We they're bad news, do we? Yeah, Canberrans we still that
59:29
2019 grand final every time the Roosters go to 10.
59:33
And then now what happened to Broncos?
59:34
You asked me what? Last time I watched league I
59:35
went to the Raiders Broncos game, that prelim final where?
59:39
Oh, wait. He's won the Game 3.
59:41
Times as the funnest race. Walsh was like warming up when
59:45
he was goal kicking and he'd just done the drinking the water
59:47
out of his new toilet. And then all the fans while he's
59:50
warming up, goal kicking right from the sideline.
59:52
They're all like miss miss you drink piss.
59:56
And then whilst just and then he black dotted every kick from the
59:59
side on like full credit to him. And then he got yellow card.
1:00:02
He comes back, all the fans are screaming at him.
1:00:04
And then he went and just tore the house down South.
1:00:06
Full credit Reese Walsh if you're listening.
1:00:08
Don't think he is, but Jake Trevorovich, mate, you're bloody
1:00:11
legend. Awesome to meet you.
1:00:12
And if you're ever in Canberra, mate, hook us up.
1:00:14
Love to chat you. You'll be at the pub.
1:00:16
And mate, thanks Mark for taking this up.
1:00:18
Yeah. Thanks so much, Jake.
1:00:20
Thanks for having us guys. Appreciate it.
1:00:22
Legend go the Eagles. Cheers.
1:00:24
Go manly. Thanks mate.