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The Time Genie Method · That Home Loan Hub

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you're an artist or a musician or some sort of creative, this is the episode for you.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Listen up.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna dive into how does the background work of all of that works.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've got Heather Newstap with me today from Time Genie.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Heather.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, it's been a too.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to have you here this morning.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you and I go way back.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: We do, yeah.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: But for those that don't know about you, how about we start with you telling us what is even Time Journey and who is Heather Newstap?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Time Journey is a business that I started in 2018 and it's actually into its third iteration.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I realized that it's called Time Journey because the point of it is to save time for my clients by doing stuff on their behalf.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And in my first iteration, I was a personal concierge in errand service, which meant I did things for busy people.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, what does that mean?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And how long is a piece of string and who were my ideal clients?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was not a business owner before that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd always been in public service jobs and I was a teacher for 15 years.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this was new to me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I quickly I sort of learned pretty quickly that that was just too broad.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was far too broad.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I managed to hone down to work with small business, and then I honed it even further after going to a business coach for several months and really honed it down to what interests me, which is like so I come from a strong education background.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm interested in businesses that work in the education field and anything to do with schools in any shape or form.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also really interested in creative people.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of music myself.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I run a choir here in Mike and I, I play the ukulele and the guitar, and I do a lot of singing.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So music's important to me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have managed to do that in the in the last three or four or five years to work pretty exclusively with those sorts of clients.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what I do for them is I work in the background for them.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: These are these almost are always either solopreneurs or maybe two people.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with a couple of businesses with two people, but these are people who have got a skill, they've got a passion about something.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: It might be writing music for children, it might be writing a novel.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: With one of my clients, I was writing sp books for special needs kids.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And my role is to do anything in the background that can help them get their product out to the right audience.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Often these are especially with creatives, they are often very un-business savvy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so they just do their thing.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I can be helpful in that I get to know the business very well, and I can be very helpful to tell them how or work with them to how they can best promote that business in the right place.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the kind of thing I might do at one end of the spectrum is is help is helping someone with their run their emails or their keep on top of their emails at one end of the spectrum.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: The other end of the spectrum, I could be actually writing resources.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like with my music background, one of my one of my most important clients in that I've worked with a writer from 2020 is a woman called Judy Cranston who writes music for kids.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I've done a lot of work with her and we've done all sorts of things, including during COVID, we did an app for with her song.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's written over 150 songs.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I know all her songs really well, and so I've written resources for her, I've done lyric sheets for her, I I've written chords for the ukulele, like this, all things like that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is stuff stuff she could do easily, but she just hasn't had time to do it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I she's been able to trust me to do it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's at the other end of the spectrum whereas whereas I can I can do because I've got a lot of experience now, having been a teacher for a long time, and then also a public health specialist.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a sort of a wide life experience now, which all taps into what I do.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: What I was thinking as you were telling me this, Heather, is um this is not just the episode for the artists and creators, but it's also for people that are sitting at home going, I don't know what to do with my life, what else can I be doing?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you're a prime example of someone just absolutely pivoted from those jobs.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: What made you go into this?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: What made you go from I've never owned a business in my life, I've never been a business person, to suddenly wake up and go, right, I'm gonna run my own business.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: What was the what was the what's the word for it?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Motivation.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: The motivation or the the point in life for you that changed it?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question, Zivila.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So so as I say, as I said, I was a teacher for 15 years and I've assumed I'd be a teacher forever.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, uh in 2000, I got a job with Life Education Trust.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody out there who's got small children.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Harold?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Harold the Giraffe.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was Harold the Giraffe for years in the Hutt Valley.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a very, very cool job, but a job you can only do for a period of time.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be up and zingy and you know, like it's a pretty full-on job.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was great.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I when when I finished that, I knew I did not want to go back into the classroom.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I made that decision, so that was the first tick.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then but we had a lot of good professional development uh uh when I was with life education, and I knew about health promotion and health promoters, and I cuddling through short, I got a job with regional public health and I became a health promoting schools advisor.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that became a whole different career.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got an I bec got a uh a diploma in public health and of and I did 10 years doing that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: But then we moved from Lo Hart to Waikinae, and as is the case in many, many situations here, the the Carpate Coast is a really wonderful place to live, and most people come here for the lifestyle as we did, but also I had an elderly mother who was at Parkwood, she was 90 when we moved here, and she and so I wanted we were visiting her a lot, and so that's when we became we became really interested in perhaps could we live here, you know, they could we make it work.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Once I got a job in Wellington, I worked for the Ministry of Health for a while and then the Health Promotion Agency, it was more feasible to actually live here so and commute into town.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So for the for I don't know, three years maybe or four years, my husband and I both commuted into Wellington every day.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that happens here.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: People do that and and they think, oh, it's easy, it's fine, you know, you just hop on the train or you hop on the car or whatever.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you get over it at a point in time because it's an hour each end of your day, out of your day.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like I was desperate to get a dog.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't get one because we were going to be away from the we were away from home 12 hours a day.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Twelve yeah, 12 hours a working day.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, long story cut short, I ended up with a part-time job at the count at the Cancer Society doing health promotion stuff.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew about what made me decide to do this particular job was many years ago I read a book where the protagonist had had this business where she did stuff for busy people.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this isn't this is a long time ago.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: When the book opened, she was at standing in a queue waiting to buy tickets for her client to a to a concert, as you did back in the day.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't just get online and buy tickets.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that's not a thing now.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that made me think, you know, that's an interesting job.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of uh maybe that's something I could do one day.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just tucked it to the back of my head.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Once we were here, once we got over commuting, I'd say, okay, this might be a good time to think about doing something different.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And because I was working part-time, which worked very well because I my mother was getting older and less well, so I was able to spend lots of time with her as well.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I started plan all the planning to go and at how to make this business work.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was pretty scary because I didn't know anything about business.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I and how did I I just sort of pulled, I remember I had a big scrapbook and I I had a friend in my book club actually who was a graphic designer.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: She whipped me up a really good logo, which I still have, and I just got talking to people and I somebody said to me, networking groups is what you need to do.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when we got into Venus, now known as New Zealand Business Woman, is that correct?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, various other ones that I joined, and that's sort of how I got into it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then gradually and then I I did made lots of mistakes in the beginning because of my naivety.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, how do you find clients?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and at the beginning, I I had this my first iteration, as I said, doing stuff for busy people.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do you find those busy people?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I assumed that it would be easy, that there's so many people up here who work in Wellington, they'll have heaps of things for me to do.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I could do anything, I could go shopping for people, I could look after somebody's cat, you know, all sorts of things.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: But and and and I did get some clients and I did do some of that stuff, and I quickly began to realise actually this is not what I really want to do.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is I don't want to look after someone, feed someone's cat, really.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really want to be cleaning because that was some people wanted me to clean.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I I don't profess to be a great cleaner.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that was when I got some some good advice from Lorraine Hamilton as a business coach.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: She helped me segue, right, to really nut out what it is I really loved to do.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, I had picked up a couple of clients I really did like working with them, and one of them was Judy, my music client, and that came about through another thing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: She was writing written a song about slip-slop, sleep and rap.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing Sun Smart Schools with the Cancer Society.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was just a you know, one of those serendipitous meetings.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was the ex the expert who knew all about skin cancer.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: She was the person writing a children's song.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: She thought she was going to have to explain to me about the importance of music for children.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: But as soon as we got talking, she understood I knew all that because I'd done it all myself before.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and so we have become very good friends.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she said to me, she once we launched the song, she said, Oh, I've got work I'd like you to do.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So once I I then knew that there were other clients out there that I really did want to work for.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So can I just quickly summarise that in order to go into your own business, you gotta understand that the first time you start something may not be the final product.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is true.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to be I do remember I went and had lunch or coffee or someone with a woman who was actually at the time the chair of the Woman in Business Committee, which is of course what I am now, at at chamber.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd been going I was really a bit worried.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, like, three weeks and I still don't have a client.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she just laughed.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And of course I laugh now too, because how ridiculous is that.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, when you're very brand squeaky new and you don't know anything about business, you don't understand that it's a it is a process.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, you're right.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It does it and you you you learn as you go.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess the trick here is to notice that and do something about it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, embracing, I think embracing the mistakes and understanding what's most important to you and what do you want to do.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, like if there is no passion in you to be doing it, you're gonna be hating it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly you don't want to be changing cats' letters and you know, if if your passion is in music.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and for a while I didn't understand that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought every little piece of work I should pick up because it's work, you know, it's helping to build my business.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, I didn't know enough about who I was, what my brand should be, and what it what it is I should be actually promoting about myself and my business.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So going to a business coach, that's a very good piece of advice.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's plenty of them around.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: They just help you work through that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, she had me doing all sorts of exercises, figuring out who was my who was my ideal client.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then not only that, how do you find them?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've figured out who they are, how do you find them?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a whole nother thing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I've I've never you know, like it's a small business and I just truck along quietly, but I it's very satisfying because everybody I'm now working for, they're interesting people, like for example, one of my clients was they're they're a couple, she is an astrobiologist, he is an astrophysicist, and they have a a a mobile planetarium and they go around schools talking about they just well Hari, the astrobiologist is actually a trained astronaut.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they're super, super clever, very, very interesting people, and they go around schools with their space stuff, and they I'm I'm their sort of I do I sort of do a thing around sending uh sequenced emails to schools to let schools know they're coming and who they are, and they they they pull me on when they need me to do any kind of promotion for them to get there.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just you know, so th these are interesting people I'm working with.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Judy, my music client, she's a really interesting person.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's I love it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she writes the most wonderful songs for kids.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know, and and I'm also doing a little bit of fun writing for for a a local Palmerston North school.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I'm I've got a lot I feel like all the skills I've gathered up, because I mean I am older, just FYI.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I am older, but that's okay because I've got a lot of different bits of experience.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing I can share with your listeners is it doesn't matter what job you've ever had in your life, it is amazing how skills that you've picked up along the way are useful again, especially in the business in your business.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You find yourself doing stuff or thinking about stuff or writing stuff, and you think, oh yeah, I've I've sort of done this before, but it was like three jobs ago or whatever.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's an interesting, it's an interesting phenomenon, you know, it's just nothing's wasted.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not no no nothing you do is wasted.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or you or even the things that you do outside your working life, like I run a singing group and all my music stuff, that's turned out to be useful too.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there you go.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I usually say, you know, just do it anyway.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like be brave.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, might scare the bejesus out of you.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: But there's always, I remember the word I was going to use with you is the catalyst.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's always a catalyst for why we do what we do.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was when um I had my third son, and my other two were, you know, five-year-old and two and a half year old, and suddenly I had a newborn.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And working in the bank, even though I was the only part-timer, thank you, ASB, for allowing me to do that because I was super good at my job.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: But even in part-time hours, we didn't have sorry, we didn't have any family around here.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was really, really hard.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: If the kids were getting sick or anything, it was all falling on me to be taking the time off.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, the catalyst was my son was born.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I couldn't just continue to be working like that because out of three kids, someone was always sick, someone was always something was happening.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, I felt bad that I couldn't come to work or I had to call in sick all the time.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, getting into this business was a part-time job that I could do around the kids, and I would have just one client, you know, a month.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was how it was sold to me.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I got really busy really fast, and um, I guess lots of people need money.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: But also, the thing I realized, just like you, is in the beginning, I was I was saying yes to everyone, even the people I didn't want to work with.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: There were people that would come across my life that I think life sent me to test me to see if I wanted clients like that.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I soon realized that no, I don't want to be dealing with people that act like complete beep.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to deal with people that don't take responsibility for their actions.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, if people come to me and I say, look, on your bank statements, it looks like you're going to overdraft all the time, or you know, you don't have any savings.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you think you're gonna buy a house?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the steps you need to take.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they wouldn't listen to me and then they would turn it all around that I don't know my thing, and I don't, and I mean I came from the bank, I knew what I was doing.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But they were doubting me.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that I don't want to be dealing with people that doubt me because you know, a few years into this job, I realized I actually know quite a bit.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know my stuff, I've bought houses before, I've built houses before, I've renovated houses.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: We were doing flipping at the time.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in that whole world.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I knew how money worked.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So for me to sit across the table from someone that had nothing to their name and tell me I was wrong, yeah, I soon realized now I'm not gonna deal with people like that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that's quite a big, like I said, epiphany, isn't it?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you realise that you don't even have to.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you do yourself no favours when you continue to work with people that are difficult.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason it might be.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've had to let go a couple of clients well for those very reasons, people who have been too demanding for what they are asking me to do or or just not getting back to me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I pride myself on being pretty efficient, but I have to work with what I've got.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if I've sent somebody something to review and they haven't got back to me after a week, or you know, I've sent them a reminder or something.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, like people like that are hard work, and you know, like you, it's I think it's you just gotta have confidence in yourself and think, well, I don't need that person, there's somebody else around the corner who will be the right, another good person to do that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've noticed is that the moment you let go of those people out of your life, the moment you stop pleasing them, because we as women as well, we have this syndrome of trying to people please everyone.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've realized that the moment I stopped pleasing those people and they left, it opened up a whole like door, a giant door for the people that actually do like you, do appreciate you, and do listen.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then these are the people that get elevated, you know, to the next level with your help.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have a client that I've helped to buy a third property now, investment property.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it always we're now really good friends.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the first property started with her being a client, and I helped her through that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Oh my god, I didn't know it was possible.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, we became good friends, and then she came to me and she's like, Oh, as a joke, do you think I can buy another one?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, sure, let's try.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then sure enough, she buys the second one, and then we're having dinner again one night, and she goes, Is it joke?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think I can buy another one?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Yeah, sure, we can do that.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Ran her numbers, and sure enough, we bought another one.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the other day she came in with flowers and bottles of wine, and she's like, I can't believe you just keep doing it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: How does it work?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so like you, you know, the moment you let go of those people, you opened up to this beautiful pool of the clients.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I love this for you, Heather.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is great, but you also do something else on the side.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're also the chair of Capiti Woman in business, women in business.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just dive a little bit into that?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of my listeners are also women, okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is interesting to me because historically, not many women were going into business, but we live in Carpeti, and it seems like everyone is self-employed in Carpeti.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is very true.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Carpete is a very interesting area because and I think it goes back to as I was saying before, it is such a wonderful place to live.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: The lifestyle here is is very relaxed.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: We have beautiful beaches and we've got uh the island.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it and we've got a nice humming community, but it's just down the road from a from the capital city, so we've we're in a really nice position.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I am chair of the Carpeti Cham Business Chamber Woman and Business Committee.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and traditionally I think women have not, you know, have sort of thought they don't need to be involved in chamber.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Chamber has has had a reputation for being a bit of a boys' club, and that is definitely true of pa of the past.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: But there's been a lot of changes over the as you know, women have fought their way in, and and now you know women are very much involved in our chamber.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh as w the what what we do as the Woman in Business Committee is we try and provide a a a place for women who can who are interested in being in business, and it and lots of our businesses here are really tiny businesses.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: It might be a woman who's got children at school, just like you, Zebina.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So someone who's got a family, they might be on their own with children or they might have a partner, but they're building their own little business, and it might be something like making scented soap or candles or jewellery, like at that level, or it could be bigger, but uh there's a lot of those.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like a chocolate factory.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like a chocolate factory, exactly, yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that we always do here is we have on the last Friday of the month, we have something called coffee connections.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is for any woman, that they don't have to be chamber members.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: We obviously try to encourage people to become members, but the point of that meeting is for women to come and for about an hour and we have coffee, obviously, and then we just go around the group and we talk, and we always have 90 seconds to talk.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you talk about your business, but we also talk about what's on top because as women we are there's always something else going on.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: We wear so many hats, we have family, we have work, we have houses, all sorts of things happening in our lives, and often we are the glue that's holding it all together.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if something is going a bit awry, it could or or is really good, whatever it is, it's on top of your head and it's actually impacting the way you're feeling and how you're running your business.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got if you're worrying about something, you've got something happening with one of your children or whatever, this is a place where you can talk about that and it's a safe space, and especially you know, like often someone else in the group will have had a similar issue, and it's just a good place to find someone else you can talk to and and just share whether you know if you're having and that just really goes back to your points when you were talking about when you were building your business as really, you know, tip number one, just be brave and just go for it, but then network and find people that are doing similar things to you in terms of building their businesses and the struggles they're having.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, you know, someone already might be ahead of ahead of you in a game and you might learn from the mistakes that they've made.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's also very, very reassuring to see people who have been in business for quite a long time or doing something, and they're still having ups and downs.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just a thing that would the way it works, and just understanding that that you know you can't as you're going back to you c it may not be the the perfect business that the when you start, it'll morph into something else or it'll it'll change in some way, and that's that's the way it it's Iteration and it's a journey.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you're very new to business, you don't necessarily know that.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You sort of think, I've got to do this, this, this, and this, and then I'll have this successful business.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't quite work that way.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that's what that's how we try to work.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we try also run events.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're planning an event in August, which is designed to be rather than a learning and development, which is what we would normally do, it's actually designed to be fun because we had a bit of a difficult, well, it's been a very challenging year.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of years.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: A couple of years now.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Many years.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But at the moment it's very tough for small businesses.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we just felt that it'd be really good to have a fun night out where people let their hair down and just have a really good, you know, it's it's a it's a quiz, sort of music quiz thing we've got planned.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so that's I enjoy doing that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a very good committee who helped me do that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of women in business, what sort of struggles do you think women might be having apart from like, you know, what we've just mentioned?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: What other struggles women are having when it comes to business compared to men?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that lack of confidence is a big one and and being stretched in many ways.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I mean, I'm generalising here.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been incredibly lucky in my life to have a very, very supportive husband.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's we've been married 43 years, so he's been he is my rock.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: You get married when you were seven.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's illegal.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: But he's he's incredibly supportive of he's always been supportive of what I do.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And but I and he's very good in the house, like he does he's a good cook and he does house, like he's a he's quite a unicorn of men, I believe.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh not quite sure how I managed to score him, but anyway, there you go.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I know there's a lot of women who don't have that, and particularly if you're on your own, or if you've got a husband who's in a big, big job, like he might be his, if not CEO, he might be in some high management role and or a partner, it doesn't have to be a husband, a partner, who's doing that, then there's always often one person, and it might be you know the the business woman who's trying to juggle a lot of things.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as you were saying, in your situation when you were younger with those young children, you felt it was you that had to take the time off to when with the sick children.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very common phenomenon, and it's it's not right, it's not fair, but it seems to be the way of the world.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, things I think have improved a lot compared to you know 20 years ago or so, but it's still not perfect by any means.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so for that reason, I think that is that makes business harder when you've got to juggle so many things.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting you said about the lack of confidence.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: What came back to mind was, you know, how they say if there is a job application, well, a job description, and a woman might look at it and go, I don't know about that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I only take two boxes out of ten and uh oh no, eight boxes out of ten, I don't know if I can apply for this.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then a man might look at a job and go, Oh yeah, I've got two out of ten.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think I should go for it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that I think fundamentally we're different to men.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And even looking at my children, I see that, you know, with boys and my girl, boys can take risks versus my girl would always sit back and go, Oh, I don't know if I should be doing that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, isn't it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even though yes, I found the same with my kids too.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really very interesting when you know that you've made quite a lot of effort to try not to try to to not role model that pattern, but that some it m it must be an innate thing and in males and females to a degree.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean and then uh you know, women can get a real hard time when they do stand up and get a bit bulgy.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're not doing anything different to men, but they can be so so you've got to be very thick skinned if you're putting yourself out there as a woman, I think.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, we know that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look at look at the kind of abuse that women get, uh the politician, female politicians, I mean anyone that's put themselves out there.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a difficult world for women.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's not fair because I mean, obviously, we are women are incredibly capable.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Often do all of those things plus deal with that plus, plus, plus, you know.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And no offense to men.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are so many fantastic men as well that run the businesses and stuff, but there's always that phrase, you know, behind every successful man.
• 26:19
  unknown: That's right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: There is a woman or a mother that you know told him what to do.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Heather, what I really want to also ask you about is we've covered your role as a self-employed person, the time genie.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love the name by the way, the time genie.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you had that logo as a genie.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've still got that same logo coming out of a lamp, was it?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's out of the no, it's out of the word out of the word time.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the word time.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was really cool.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, and you helped me as well, actually.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: You did um years ago when I first started, we were putting together first-time bias guide.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you did do some proofreading for me and and giving me some feedback.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've I've got all yeah, that I I do all sorts of things like that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what I quite like doing was someone someone will say, I've I've got this thing.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do that?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I usually say, Yeah, I can do that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll just figure it out how.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like me.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then your daughter came to me and I helped her.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was great.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're very grateful for that.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: To buy her first home.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: That was really nice.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it was a young couple that just didn't know where to start or where to go.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: They yeah, they were a good example of how you were very helpful because they came from Auckland.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they moved here from Auckland because they could not get on the property market in Auckland, and they announced they were going to come and live with us.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they moved in, and it actually worked out all right because we've got a reasonably good sized house and we have a separate Loon bathroom down one end.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it it actually worked pretty well.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I was worried, I thought, oh my god, how long will they be here?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, you know, how long is it how long is a piece of string?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because they didn't have a lot behind them really at that stage.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: They uh and and Freya had a job, but Jareth didn't at that stage, but he is an electrician, so he got one quite quickly.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, they were they were very confident that they did not have enough money to buy a house and they didn't know they were a wee bit lost, and so I got them in touch with you.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when they came home after the first time they'd met with you, they were really buzzy because they understood that actually maybe maybe they could buy a house.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'll be very well, very ever grateful for you to you for that, Devinasu, because you got them on the right track and got them sorted, and now they're in that house.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great little house, and they've gradually, very slowly, you know, making it doing it up, it's a a a very solid little ex-state house in Wainu and Mata and yeah, and Fras.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I helped to save the family dynamics.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: You did, you did.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing was they lived with us for exactly a year to the day they moved in on the something or other of March.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I just remember noticing this at the time, and they moved out on the same day a year later.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it all, I mean, we all were still speaking to each other, so it was all good, but um I was I was pleased, it was it was time for them to go.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, that's quite a change when you've got people in your house like that.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel you, I feel you.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I caught myself thinking the other day that I haven't really lived with my mother since I was about 12 because my mom got a job internationally and working for United Nations.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was living with my grandma and I was looking after my brothers from the age of 12.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And mom would come back home once a year for two, three weeks, because that's only how long she had for annual leave, and then she would leave.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I moved to New Zealand, it would be the same thing.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: She would pop in for a couple of weeks and then off she goes.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I had a kid, she would pop in, spend three weeks, and off she goes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So last year, mom and came and stayed with us, and that has been the longest time I've spent with my mother since I was 12.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I love my mother dearly, and she probably listens to all my podcasts.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but it was really interesting adjusting to each other.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got I've got a big house, you know, she's got a whole wing to herself, but still, it was really interesting to adjust back to being her kid, but also being a mom to my kids.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's it's funny from both angles too, because I've been in that situation with yeah, with Freya.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like that whole like she's actually an adult, she's now 35.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but she's also a kid.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a very strange dynamic, and it really is.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And particularly when when you've, as you say, when you've left, you you haven't been together for a long, long time.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you've become an adult in the meantime.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So no, that's really interesting.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really interesting, yeah, to watch that dynamics between me and my mom unfold and her trying to, you know, understand how my day works.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And my day just can be absolute chaos sometimes.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it could go from recording podcasts to seeing clients to solving business issues and staff issues and children, you know, when the the school constantly calls me that this kid got hurt or that kid got hurt, and it just never ends.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I never know sometimes what the day may bring.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, I have a calendar and I know some things.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, but the kids things pop up all the time, don't I?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there are things that are outside my control.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's really interesting to figure that out.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad that I've helped to save your family.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: We also sit together on uh board for electro business awards.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's new for me, but that's new for you.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been sitting on it for a while, and I've won some awards through that, and that's how I ended up being on the board, which was really cool.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: But again, what do you see from that angle?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why should businesses even go for things like that?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just curious to tap into your brain.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just think, I mean, I to be honest, I didn't know a huge amount about it when before I got onto the board.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I got onto the board because I'm on the chamber board and I'm a rep from the chamber board.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I've begun to realise that what a wonderful experience that is for businesses, particularly, well, actually, I suppose any business.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I consider my business to be sort of at the other end of the spectrum because I am older now and I probably won't be doing this in a couple of years' time.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: But for business owners who are building a business or have starting a business or are sort of trying to pivot in some way, what's really good about the Electro Business Awards is that it comes with all that mentoring and looking into your business, really picking all the bones out of your business.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of just because it's so easy to get pulled in and just be you know, just working what's what's the expression, working in the business.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not on the business.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that so that you're actually pulling it apart and you're looking at all the as different aspects and you're realizing, or actually, there's a couple of things.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, there's realizing what things might need to be improved, that's obviously important.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's equally important to understand all of the successes and the achievements that you've had.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: That you can very easily gloss over something happens, think, oh yeah, that was good.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I got a big client or I or I did a great thing, and yes, it was good for a day or three and then on to the next thing.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: But actually those little achievements, or the or big and small achievements, are a really important thing to acknowledge to yourself, to think actually I've done pretty well.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've done this, this, this, and this and I'm still here.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, actually, I think that's even that's pretty amazing.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still here in this economic climate where things are tough.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad that you're still here too.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm still here.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm yeah, I'm I c I've not doing a huge amount of work right now, but it's actually picking up again right now.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been very quiet this year, but that's okay.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay for me.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: And because I am a bit of a nice to have, not a, you know, for for Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is one of the that is one of the well, I think if you I think the kinds of people who are doing very well in business right now are people who are in areas that are always needed, so tradies and yeah um you know money people and stuff because because those needs continue.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're a nice to have, then when things are good, then you think, oh yeah, I'll employ this person to do this thing.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise you think, no, actually, I won't pay that person to do that, I can do it myself, even though they might not really have time to do it or it's difficult to do.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, that's that's just the way that that's the way it is.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so you just have to roll with the punches and go with the flow and you know, promote yourself and hope that I mean I don't do a huge amount of promotion.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've got I now get all my clients through word of mouth.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is the best.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is the best.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know and repeat business to people coming back to me.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I find the worst is like when you get a cold lead and you have to call someone and I hate those.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love when people come to me and they go, Oh, so-and-so referred you, you know, and straight away they've got instant trust in your abilities.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's true.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I mentioned the business awards is because I feel like a lot of businesses underestimate what it can do for them.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like you know, we started this episode with if you're self-employed or if you're an artist, you know, things like that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because those awards or those platforms, I mean, look where in the region you are in New Zealand, or even I have a lot of people listening to us from overseas.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you are actually trying to build your business and if you're serious about it, these are the things you should be doing, you know, finding the business coach, finding what awards you can apply into, because a lot of those things are free, like business awards are free, and you get that mentorship as well to help you with your business.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the only way to learn is looking in.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And actually by doing that, you are much less likely to make big mistakes that will cost you in the end.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you if actually asking for help and and and getting help is really important, and as you say, with the business awards, that's part of the package.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um, you know, some people find that a wee bit confronting, but actually that's that whole thing about just get out there and do it, be brave, put yourself forward.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, if someone can give you good sound advice that's gonna help you improve, then that's that's great.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna make a big difference to whether you're gonna succeed or not.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on the topic of mistakes, I want to know about because I'm in money, I'm in finance, I want to know what mistakes you've made or what you've learned or what you haven't made because you knew someone else made those money mistakes.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'd say the most the biggest money mistake I made was in my very early years of because I didn't know my market, because it was like this is when I was being my a personal concierge in errand service, I spent a lot of money on advertising in random places.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I did some radio ads and I did my husband and I stood at the railway stations, both of them, uh Wike and I and part of Padou, for many days handing out leaflets.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was freezing cold, it was I think it was August, it was like in the dead of winter, and I did get one client from that, but it was a lot of money spent and I and actually flyers.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I got flyers done and and put into metal boxes.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that cost me$1,300, which is shocking now when I look back on it.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that that was not the way to promote what I do.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what now I what I learned over time was as we as we've just said, what the kinds of clients that I work best with or work best with me, they hear about me from someone else or they look at my website.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: But or you I I m I've had a couple of clients from my web, you know, like I've had some clients from my website, not many.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them I've had through referrals and then repeat business.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say mistakes for a new business is it's very important to figure out who your key market is and promote into that and figure out the best way to do that.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, radio and flyers were were a costly mistake.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it was just it was a learning and we took it as a okay, we'll do that, don't do that again.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Business expense.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'd say that would be my biggest mistake.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is another thing, and this is something I have struggled with a I have struggled with this, but I've got better at it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Charging, you know, figuring out okay, I've got this enormous skill set and so I d you know, I I I am worth a certain amount per I work on an hourly rate, say.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've I've got round it by delineating work so so I've got some sort of like ba a basic rate for some basic work, but then when I've got more what I call thinking work, I charge more for that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel more comfortable about that because for me it's tapping into my knowledge.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, somebody else could do it too, but I've got a whole lot of experience that my this client wants from me, so therefore they're paying for it.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and and also it it it it also goes around like if you don't don't charge enough, people think, yeah, are they for any good?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a balance there.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: But as woman, going back to that woman conversation, it is incre that's a very, very difficult thing to do to say, well, actually, I'm worth$150 an hour or whatever.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, if you go to a lawyer, you're paying a zillion dollars, even if they just pick up the phone.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, people do it.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: People in different industries do it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're a entrepreneur or a solopreneur, it's pretty hard, and you're trying to get work, it's this constant juggle between if I ask too much, I won't get any clients, but if I don't ask enough, I can barely make ends meet.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, like it's a it that's that is also another money learning thing.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my I've I've I've raised my rates over the over the years, and it's never been a problem.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing I've learned is I've raised my rates and I haven't lost any clients in the process.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's obviously if you're doing an okay job, then people will pay for it still.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you think AI will affect what you do?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: I use AI myself a bit.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think I don't think AI would could quite replace what I do because oh, who knows?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody s probably thinks that.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think AI is really useful for writing, but I think the most important thing about it is you have to give it incredibly good prompts and then you get the best thing from.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do use it for the lights of funding applications because I what I'll do is I'll write something, I'll write what I want to say, and then I'll put it through chat GPT, and he will often just tighten a few things or it it just makes it works over there.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean I don't I think the worst way of using AI is when you just say I need a thousand words about this, that becomes an AI piece.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've got to put a lot of yourself into AI to get to get a d a more authentic sound because that is the thing that you have to be very aware of.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: You people are getting a lot more savvy about what is what is AI, and that's the same with imagery as well.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: So not only words but imagery.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we we have a we have a um a rule with the uh chamber website, they won't they won't publish anything that's obviously an AI generated anything, video or photo, because it actually r it it sort of you people don't trust.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to say it dissolves the trust.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: It erodes the trust that that might have been built up.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, so I think with I think AI w has a a very, very big place.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I as I say I have used it myself.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that it can exactly replace what I do, because I think what I what what I tend to do, what I try to do is I get to know the person's business really well.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and that and so and so from that point of view, I become like another team member and a sounding board, and that's quite helpful when there's someone who's on that working on their own, someone who understands everything and knows everything from the business point of view, and the person can say to me, What do you think of this?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say, Yeah, that's a good idea, and it's just you know, spitballing and yeah, not having someone to do that with.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think AI could do that very well.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe it could.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, yesterday I had an ad pop up to me going, you know, forget a Rob of X.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now there is Robot.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's an actual robot that you can put into your house that can do the vacuuming, that can do this and that.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh my god, the the future is here, you know, there's a robot in the house.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, what I think about AI, it's only as good as a user.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I I've come back to in life, is that you still, as a human, is very valuable and smart, and you have all the skills.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's how you work with AI to enhance that.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like I I see AI is gonna become almost like salt in cooking, you know.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: You need you need to add salt to your cookies or to your soup to enhance the flavor, but you're still the one doing all the cooking.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like AI is just adding that extra spice to us where if you know how to prompt it, if you know how to use it, you should be able to then, you know, make your product go bigger, faster, much more faster now than what we used to have, you know, 10 years ago, even five years ago.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, and it's it's a very interesting thing, AI, because it's it's it's just arrived with a hiss and a roar.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's been around, but it's really everybody knows about it now, everybody's using it to some degree.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it keeps evolving.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: It just keeps evolving.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I built myself a website over the weekend just for the fun of it because I heard you could build a website, and I was like, Oh, let me just check it out, you know.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Claude, it um apparently it's now much better than Chat GPT.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's a there's a there you go.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the thing that it's just evolving all the time.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um someone said, Oh, you know, you can build a website.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing a re I was watching a review on YouTube between Claude and ChatGPT, and the guys, oh, you can build a website.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, huh, okay.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I got up, was Saturday morning, I had techwondo at 12, and I think it was eight o'clock in the morning.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I wonder if I can, you know, do it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just start now.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Before I left for Tekmondo, I already had a website ready to go.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Within three hours, like I just Yeah, well that's incredible.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna that's gonna be a big game changer, isn't it?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I think it's only as good as the user.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knew what I needed, I knew how to prompt it, I knew what I wanted on that website, but then I still needed to figure out how to go and publish it, how because even if it gave you steps of how to publish the website online.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I still needed to figure out other steps that he didn't mention.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it it still makes human brain work.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I I tell you what, I think that one of the most useful things, what way of using AI is if you've got a difficult email or a difficult something to write.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can go and could you please make this into a professional, yes, polite way, but keeping these salient points.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he does a great job at that job.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've only had to do that a couple of times, but it's been I've been really pleased to be able to do that and have something that I felt happy to send audio.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: But generally I think I think you know you're right, and it's all to do with your prompts and understanding that the more you and that's where the training needs to be for humans is how best how to get the best out of AI, really.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I do worry about it with in in the creative fields of writing and when you hear these stories about whole books have been written by AI and Oh, but on the songs, I've written the songs, yes.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've written some songs using AI just again for the fun of it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's a bit scary.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I yeah, as using real voices and or using real images, yeah, all of that.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole lot of ethics that go around.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And who owns it and what's the copyright around?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, that's a whole other conversation, Hather.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like the internet another internet, isn't it?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: The internet was like that too.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It it started off like this and now it's enormous and almost out of control.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And AI is a bit similar.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, exactly.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're so we're too clever for our own good, us humans.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Heather, what are your final words of wisdom for our listeners?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: I guess my words of wisdom are that if you're even considering starting a business, you can certainly get the the great thing about having your own business is it gives you you have a lot of autonomy, as you found.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: You you can you know you it it's it's very satisfying, but it takes work and you have to be prepared to put that work in.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: It takes planning to get it going, and you've got to be prepared to make mistakes.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to understand you'll spend money that you wish you hadn't spent.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: You've just got to understand that that's just the way it is.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a journey, and don't be afraid to ask for help along the way.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of other people going through the same thing or have been there, done that, and can help you, uh, as well as the likes of business coaches or or other co you know, just life coaches who can help you figure out what you want to do.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: You don't none of these things you have to do by yourself, but you do have to have that innate motivation to make it work.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: What books are you reading at the moment, if any?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have just read an interesting book for book club called Morris in Maryland.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's it's a a memoir, uh a biography about a couple who in the 1973 they were going to they were trying to sail from the UK to New Zealand.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they hit a whale in the Pacific Ocean and the boat sank.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they were on a life raft for nearly four months.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fascinating story, and it's m not only about survival because they were nearly dead when they were found.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Seven ships went past them and didn't see them.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was the eighth ship that finally stopped.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was all about their relationship and their resilience and yeah, good lesson for life, really.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hang in there and hang in there.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hang in there, yeah.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Heather, thank you so, so much for joining me today.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope the listeners have got some awesome pillars of wisdom there from you.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to see where time journey goes to next.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: See you.