Latest / Nonprofit411 Podcast / Stop Calling It Fundraising with Tim Sarrantonio | Nonprofit411 Podcast
Transcript
- Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Hello and welcome to Nonprofit 411, the podcast for nonprofit professionals who are passionate about helping and still trying to figure out the rest. Each episode brings in experts who've worked in the sector, fundraisers, directors, and specialists for real conversations and real help you can use in your own work. I'm Sarah Barton, the generosity specialist, and I'm joined today by Tim Serantonio from the generosity spectrum. Welcome. Tim Sarrantonio: We love our generosity here, so I'm excited to dive in. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. I love that you started with that because I just hate the word fundraising. So like I wanna change that. I wanna change that in the entire sector. Let's start with generosity. Tim Sarrantonio: Let's start with generosity. Well you know, it's interesting 'cause 'cause you know, I've worked with and and for technology companies for a while and and I even had an executive at my last job. They they were on the finance side and they would always just they're like, Who uses the word generosity? I thought it's about donations. And I'm like, Okay, you know, that's reducing things down to like the way that you manage the the like resources versus the underlying like reason for something existing. It's it's kind of like you know, talking about a city charter and like why a community even has established itself and then getting annoyed that we're only talking about the sewage system. Right? It's like you gotta go much beyond that. It's the the money's only one component. So generosity's so much bigger than that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: It is, it is. And so like you have really you are really trying to bring that to awareness through the generosity spectrum in all the work that you're doing. In fact, I feel like the first time that I really started using that word really consistently was after you and I started talking about the generosity economy and the generosity Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: ecosystem. Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. It's so for folks who may not be familiar with my work here, here's a little too long didn't read. I've been in the sector since 2008. I would say technically six, if we're gonna extend my grad school internships. For a nonprofit, I did teach kids English. you know, not the best, right? Like at that. Right, but I did love teaching. That kind of was where my love of education started was just working with these kids. I was going to Teachers College, Columbia, and eventually I was like, Well, look, I love teaching and I'm gonna be an academic, so I'm gonna go out west a little bit, not fur too far out west. I went to Chicago, folks. And so I was living in New York, went to Chicago, my best friend was there, and I was like, Well, I'm going to wear a tweed jacket and I'm going to you know, have a pipe and I will be in the middle of a cornfield. So I need to go to the Midwest. And ultimately that dream of being a professor did not work out. And I joined the nonprofit sector in two thousand and eight. And just like many of you, and Sarah, I'd actually love to maybe know how you got into the sector too. Cause for me I just stumbled into it. My dad flew out and was like, You need a job. Like you y your student loans are not going to get paid for by the crappy coffee shops that you're jumping around to. Like it's time to to get serious. And so the first job I got was as a grant writer. but the entire budget for the organization was like a hundred thousand, not even ninety-eight thousand, I think, if we we look. and and I didn't know what I was doing. I was a failed academic and I was a grant writer in two thousand and eight, Sarah. So I think a lot of people have that. that feeling. Like so so yeah, I'll kind of continue on, but what about you? I'm actually interested I'm gonna flip it on new. I know it's your podcast, but, you know, it's me. So I wanna I wanna hear. How did you get into the sector? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: What was like your first job? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: So actually I went to my my undergrad is in child development and family studies. And so my first internship, I didn't I knew I didn't want to do like early childhood. I had actually planned on going into the medical field and working there. But my first internship was with the Family Resource Network in West Virginia. So they provide all the resources. After that job, I was planning on going into a dual degree in social work and public administration again so that I could get back into the hospitals and do therapy with kids. Like that's where I wanted to be. but the social work department was really difficult to work with and I had a paid internship at a chamber of commerce, which is a nonprofit, from a grant written by a guy at a hospital that was also a nonprofit. And he's like, Sarah, you can do this for the rest of your life. And I was like, okay. So Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: so I did like a three-day grant writing class with this guy and got hired as a grant writer at a university. So Tim Sarrantonio: And and that's such an amazing story and it's really emblematic, I think, of the overall obstacle that I'm trying to help people is that many of us joining the sector feel like it's like we got dumped on the island of misfit toys and we're not exactly sure how we got there, especially on the fundraising side. But this happens in programming, volunteer management, administrative finance. All of these different things. And and I think that's the biggest thing that that I want to flag is that we silo our experiences. And yet, Sarah, what you just talked about is very emblematic of how a lot of people fall into the sector. They might even be exposed to the social work side and then they kind of shift over into the more resource management side of things, or even vice versa. But we're all experiencing the same thing in the same flow and the format and so how do we learn together? And so, you know, I had a twenty year career in nonprofits and technology, seeing data systems at large scale, but the practical reality is is that most generosity, if you look at the data, if you look at the philanthropic psychology behind it, if you look at the socioeconomic realities of resource distribution that is not just on racial lines, but class lines, gender lines, ability. All of these point to the the strongest driver of resilience in a community is people who understand themselves and the ways that they are generous with each other. And that is actually what I'm trying to teach. But I'm starting with executive directors and board members and fundraising staff and event planners who are like, I have terrible meetings. I need to cut this down. So I actually designed something that we'll we'll talk about, I imagine, to kind of address that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: But the bigger vision is education. We typically come in and we have no clue what we're doing. Sometimes we work at a university that's gonna help support us. I didn't get proper professional development outside of like webinars by constant contact, right? In terms of how to do email. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: you know, or or maybe I went to something that foundation put on, but I didn't go to my first conference until I worked for a Catholic school that the very first week I was there, I received a check to process as my database administrator job outline. That was the equivalent of one tenth of my first nonprofits entire budget. Not salary, but budget. And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Budget, yeah. Right. Tim Sarrantonio: so it it it really opened my eyes after even just a few years on the realities of professional development. And that's ultimately p my passion is that it's always been education. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, so like so much in that that I wanna like just kinda speak to and kind of unpack. I agree that you know the education is sparse. And so in my work, you know, the generosity engine, I help people understand the system of fundraising, right? Like this is like if You know, it's it's more than just asking for money. And what you said about the, you know, you got trained on the free webinars or maybe the low cost webinars, yeah, none of those actually help you create a whole system. Like it doesn't create the processes needed to actually run fundraising, for example, really, really well. And I so I did finish my degree in public administration. Which I believe is probably one of the closest. There are a couple of colleges now providing like a non profit training. I know David Rhodes, I had him on the show you know, last year or the year before, and he works at a university that offers a nonprofit training. But I feel like public administration has kind of been it for a long time like that was where you could go if you were not doing business. So, you know you have your MBA and then you have your MPA and there's really nothing in between. So I did the MPA. Tim Sarrantonio: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and I can tell you the gaps when we did we looked at budgeting, we looked at different styles of budgeting that nonprofits could do and we helped look we man we did our project was like working on a city's budget. But it that's so different than a nonprofit. Right? Cause in a Tim Sarrantonio: It it is. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: nonprofit you have unpredictable income. Tim Sarrantonio: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: and you you have the ability to like increase the income, but you have to estimate and budget for all circumstances. and Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. And and and I think that's that's kind of the core underlying like first of all, I I had a moment, you know, there's this show on Apple T V called Dark Matter, and it's about basically multiverses. Every decision that we make could lead to another branch of possibilities. and that is the practical reality Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Tim Sarrantonio: in in all of our lives. We live one timeline, so to speak. That it's not that I'm hopping over to different things, but I have critical junctures. big and small in my life that could lead to one path or another, and that happens to all of us. And so I could have went to the MPA program in Syracuse, for instance. I got accepted to that program. Instead I decided I want to live in Ireland for a year and then I want to go to an Ivy League school, partially because my mom said I couldn't get in. And so that's not how most people should make their career decisions is spiding their parents. And so and going into debt for it. The practical reality is that Yeah. Well, and Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That's the piece. That'll get ya. Tim Sarrantonio: it worked out. I look for me, you know, things worked out in a way that that I I am in a unique spot because I am chair of the fundraising effectiveness project currently. I've been w involved in that for about ten years. I'm on the Aspen Institute's Alliance for Social Trust work group on bottom-up trust. And so even when you're talking about healthcare and things like that. Where I think we need to shift to regain our identity as a sector is to re-embrace practice-based evidence, meaning we're gonna test, we're gonna try, we're going to see where systems can take us because systems are living things. An ecosystem, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: right? That's honestly what the generosity economy is, is an ecosystem of both resources financially and mentally. It is The attention Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Tim Sarrantonio: economy brought high because as Jen Shang and Adrian Sargent have established in their work on philanthropic psychology at the Institute for Sustainable Philanthropy, the strongest reason people are generous is because it resonates with their identity. And everybody's Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. Tim Sarrantonio: identity is a multiverse of weird emotions and history and trauma and all of these and beauty and like art and culture. It's all of it. And every time We walk outside, there is an opportunity to be pitched at or to experience something. That's the difference between, you know, what we do in the nonprofit sector by default versus what's happening in e-commerce on an everyday basis. People who tell me that giving is the same as don' as as buying something on Amazon do not understand the underlying psychology on why people give. It's not donate bucks. And this is the problem with Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Right. Tim Sarrantonio: a lot of the education now is that it is equating market dynamics and sales tactics as the equivalent of building a long-term or even short-term relationship with somebody. Sure. There and I'll get off my rant soapbox in a moment, but the practical reality is is that there are some cool things, and I've learned this because of the the launch that I just came out of. I got to use Shopify. There's some wild things that that the e-commerce platforms can teach us from how to keep people's attention. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: But that is not the same as an underlying heartbeat. And so what I'm so excited about for what what I'm building with an educational gaming system is to be able to take that and use it almost as a GPS for generosity to help a team kind of understand where's the ultimate place that I should be focusing my energy on. And then to connect that into a system like you're designing for practical application, there's there's like a difference between I'm being creative and I'm in a sandbox, that's my world, versus, but we have to actually go do a thing, that's a much longer conversation. But I think we need both. I think we're s getting so bogged down by how do I get things started that my my world that I'm trying to inject is a bit of color. and fun to go, we're gonna get it started by not freaking out immediately. We're gonna get it started by learning from each other. That's a thing that we're missing is we don't have that peer network other than you joining a professional association or going to see your buddies on a Zoom call or something like that. There's no mycelium in the ecosystem and that's kind of what I wanna wanna have. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Well, yeah. I and I think the problem with the types of systems that we do have to have those is they're not super safe when things aren't going right. Like, you Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah, yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: know, I I think I think that's what I love. So we're gonna have to introduce everybody to kind of, you know, the generosity round table, but I think that's what I love about the way that you're going about it is Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah, yeah. Because we're talking very theoretical, folks, at this point. We're you know, we're fifteen Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: We can have conversations. Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: minutes in and I want to make sure you all understand the journey that we're going toward. So so we're gonna do a bit of telling, but there is some show elements that we can talk about too, Sarah. So you know, we've I think we've established Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: the problem and and so keep going because th the safety part is really critical to what we're talking about. I'm happy that you're you're grabbing that thread. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, because I think it's I think it's one of the pieces that's missing for the nonprofit sector. So in it it's not such an issue in business because it's less of a trust based exchange. I'm trying to think of the right word, right? It's less of a trust based exchange in business, but we operate in a trust based environment. And so because of that I think that there's a lot of feeling that I can't you know, in the testing world, I can't get it wrong because if I'm banking on you trusting me and you see me failing, you know, then then you're going to lose trust in me. And so and so we have a lot of we don't we have a lot of spaces where we can show up, but we don't have spaces where we can show up and be like, this didn't work. Can you guys give me like some feedback? I was just listening to Simon Sinek's Tim Sarrantonio: It's it's o yeah, it's go on, sorry. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: no the his bit of optimism and it was on feedback and like feedback is a data point that is really vital for us as we adjust, right? We need feedback. Feedback's not bad, it is just data points. And I think like that's where we struggle in the sector. when the data points aren't an overwhelming success, we feel like they're not data points that can be shared. and and so it's it's a huge challenge. Tim Sarrantonio: 'Cause we're gonna lose our job because we didn't hit the numbers that that even when I was at the bridge conference recently during my my launch week last you know, it it was in late July. And so Generosity Rat Spectrum is a company that produces it's the nonprofit sector's first dedicated educational gaming studio just for the sector. There's other places that produce games. There's other nonprofits that have been doing, you know, game game elements for a long time now, but I have not seen anybody who's focused their energy on fundraisers, executive directors, board members, volunteer managers, program designers, in-house finance teams, the the inventory management at the food bank, right? Like all of it. All of it. The donors. The community at large, the program participants. In short, everybody, but from the basis of this is a special way to think about the world when we're in the nonprofit sector. And so that space is ultimately where I wanted to say, look, I want to create this space. And at first, Sarah, I could have been an you know, I could have been a consultant. I could have gone and said, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: I have this way to think about the world. And if you buy my framework, that's it. Right. Like that's not how I want to do. And I think that that there's great people like you that want to work alongside folks. I'm just gonna be honest, I don't the patience. Right? I got three young kids, I'm teaching them, right? And so for me, I've been so used to teaching thousands of people through virtual education and workshops and things like that. That I also said, what does it look like if I can t teach people to do this themselves? Right. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Mm-hmm. Tim Sarrantonio: That's the main thing is that it's not the consultancy. It's the fact that people have to leave and go back and do their lives. And I'm getting sick of the workshops, the trainings, the curriculum, the conferences, the webinars, the templates, the downloadable sheets, the apps that are being created with AI so you can enter your own benchmarks on the flight. All of these things aren't working by themselves. Because we don't know where we're supposed to go next once the thing ends. And so that safety zone is is what I'm obsessed with. And very early on in my journey, about l last July is when I said, Okay, I need something different to do. And I talked with two people very close to me in upstate New York that work for nonprofits. And they're like, all of this sounds great, but if it's like above five hundred bucks, we have to go talk to somebody. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: And I was like, okay, what could that look like? Like what is education that is replicable, that could travel, that could adapt, look like for under f five hundred dollars or below? And that's kind of became my obsession. And that's where I settled on, you know what, we don't have games. We don't have a game just for us. I've been playing with games for years. I've been doing bingo. I've been doing Jeopardy. I've been doing card games. I've been testing this stuff out for years. It turns out I've been actually developing this for probably four years without me realizing it. And Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: the engagement was always a lot higher. People would recall things at a much higher rate. There's a lot of research that shows that. But to the piece that gets to what you're talking about, why role-playing? Because ultimately I felt We need a bit of a role-play experience here. It's not Dungeons and Dragons outright, folks, but there's a little bit of that there. And it's because Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Ha ha ha ha ha. Tim Sarrantonio: of the distance that the moment we start to talk about work, people get defensive. They go, but I didn't do that. It's like me talking to my kids. Who left the garbage in the playroom? Wasn't me. Wasn't me, because they think they're going to get in trouble. And You know, 'cause they did a thing wrong. And first of all, that you gotta create an environment where they're not just pointing fingers at each other like Spider-Man. And that's where that community of peers is ultimately the thing that I'm so excited about because we're gonna be able to play this thing that walks you through scenarios and helps you think about problems in the world that you're experiencing as a nonprofit leader or board member or community member and do it in a safe way. But the biggest part is You get to do it with people like you and me, Sarah. And other people who are working at non profits or other people who are thinking about the same problems. That's what I'm most excited about. It's not the actual game itself. Because the game's gonna evolve and I might even come up with other ideas, but the peer learning where we get to share in a space where it's like, I didn't screw up or I did screw up and this is like okay. That's what I'm most excited about. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: Thanks for letting me soapbox. That's that's kind of the the whole gist Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. So I have my generosity roundtable game. I got Tim Sarrantonio: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: a a pr advanced copy and I Tim Sarrantonio: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: haven't played a full game yet. However, I have one scheduled August 11th. So today's August 7th. For people who are listening, Tim Sarrantonio: Cool. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: you know, I have it scheduled in a couple days, but we were prepping for it and we were going through like the different scenarios we could talk about. Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And I'm doing it with at a local we have an organization nearby us called Nonprofits Lead and Tim Sarrantonio: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: she helps or nonprofits build capacity. And and so we were talking through it and she's like, I love this because I could play as my friend who has this personality, or I could secretly just play as my organization who needs this thing, right? And I think Tim Sarrantonio: Bingo bingo bingo Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: So exactly. Tim Sarrantonio: exactly. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, so the role playing piece is so nice because you could have conversations without having that direct, you know, responsibility for what the situation was. The other thing that we really Tim Sarrantonio: And I'll I'll I'll I'll Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: The other thing we really loved about it is that you could play, you can play as a role outside of yourself or outside of anybody represented at your organization. And that helps bring in dynamic thinking in a new way, right? Because we know people in our lives who think differently. We don't naturally think like them, but we can pretend to be them and think about, you know, well, and and you know, I think about in my own life. My kids will always say, Well, mom will say, you know, they know what we're gonna say or they they might know our point of view and they bring it into the conversation without having to have in my in the examples, you know, without mom being present. So, Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I I I think that's a great point too. And I'm excited about your game and I'll give you a few tips here that'll also help other people because this is typically how it's gonna flow, right? you need at least three people usually to have a you know, a round table conversation, 'cause it's a conversation game. And so so you got y your friend and maybe one other person joining ya, or you're just gonna do it with her? Like what are you gonna do? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: yeah, so it's actually a at a meeting where nonprofits come and we just like share. And so there are probably you there's usually about eleven nonprofits represented. Tim Sarrantonio: Okay. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: So we're definitely gonna have a decent game. I would say at least three or four. Tim Sarrantonio: Great. So you could you can either deputize, you know, your friend or have a full table wide conversation. You could do it up to like ten people in a host, so that works. and everyone's gonna take on either a character, and it could be as simple, Sarah as like somebody reading the cards and being like, I'd like to be the builder, because it's rooted in philanthropic psychology. It's like why people think about generosity. So there's no jerks. Right? There's nobody trying to like secretly undercut the the the goal. Like I tried to introduce that early on in playtest. I've been doing this since December 2025 with over 300 people at this point. And introducing jerks ruin the game. It's like it's it's a consensus game. We're you know, why are we what how do you win? That was one of the first things that people asked. How do you win? You win by agreeing with each other. And so, Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Ha ha ha. Tim Sarrantonio: But people need more there. So basically you say, I'm gonna be this character, and then there's gonna be a few other people that are gonna do that. You could play as yourself, you know, you could play as your board member, like you said, or a friend or or, you know, a donor that you wanna pretend that you are. It doesn't really matter. What people also do in that mixed setting is they might make a fake nonprofit too. It's like this is a composite non profit. I built a little generator even where it's like we all work for this animal organization. And we're gonna pretend that like I'm a donor and I'm a board member and I'm this and we're gonna talk about this problem. The reason we're in this room is we've been gathered here by, you know, trailhead animal service nonprofit, which is what I did at bridge conference. And we had like few tables running, so you can even break up the groups too. Because all you need is somebody to go, we're gonna talk about this thing, and we're gonna have this type of conversation about it, right? So I want to talk about donor retention being a problem, and I want to align on like why that's a problem. And then you just have a few cards that you say you all have to choose one of these cards. That's what makes it not a board meeting, right? Like the difference is that they should be somewhat having an argument about like philosophically, do we want to go fast or slow? That's it. That's the game. is like put two opposing types of approaches to a problem in front of people and get them to talk it out. That's it. After afterwards, Sarah, you are just facilitating a good conversation. And the cards focus that Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: and make it that it's not a awful board meeting or an interesting board meeting that then leads to like the it's like, no, we're gonna take twenty, thirty minutes and just kind of talk it out on why we think this is the way to solve this particular scenario. Then do with it what you will. You could go out of it and you say, let's learn. What did we learn? Well how does this apply to our real work? If I was going to work with donors, what would we do with this information? i it it sky's the limit at that point. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, that's what I love about it. So like, you know, in the game there are some pre made scenarios, but then as, you know, I was talking about with my friend, we're like, my gosh, wouldn't you like to have a conversation about? And, you know, we have all kinds of ideas that we know because we're deal with nonprofits all the time who have these challenges. and a lot of times I, you know, with the people that I work with when particularly when it comes to fundraising. They're like, well, this is really like aligned with my community, but then when it gets into the boardroom, it completely dissolves. And so, so I think that it allows us to prep better. You know, we can use it as a prepping tool so that Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: we're going to s be stronger prepared. And I was I was watching something on AI the other day that said, you know, AI is an averaging software. And so like what it gives you is going to be somewhere in the middle. But sometimes in these situations, that's not where you need to end up. You know, you maybe need to have a a strong stance and you're gonna have to be ready to defend it. and so like AI can't do that. They the dynamics of humans are still greater than any AI. And so, It's so simple. You can grab three or four people and this allows you to create a much more dynamic outcome in a very short period of time. And it you walk away from it thinking, right? You walk Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: away from it thinking like, and the next time you're you encounter anything, you're like, yeah, I I gotta remember, you know, I'll write that down on my notebook. Like, I gotta remember to look at it from this perspective. Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I'm a solopreneur, so I actually have some of the same challenges in that like you know I I don't have a lot of that feedback and this is a great way to get feedback. So so Tim, I can't believe we're already Tim Sarrantonio: Love it. I mean you get you get the you get the heart. You get the heart and that's where it's gonna grow. And really the the goal is is that, you know, Sarah, as you go through your first game, my job is to make you feel comfortable, is to make you feel confident you can run it on your own, right? I can't be everywhere. And so the point is is that people like you as a host, because we have a growing host network, as you learn different techniques, as you learn things, we're gonna share that back out so other hosts can benefit from that too and go, ooh, I talked about it this way or I did that. And and that's why I did the scenario generator. So so I'm gonna tip my hat to you for pushing me to I wanna get that done like for this call, basically, because I was like, I wanna Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Ja Tim Sarrantonio: have this ready where literally Sarah like You plug in, I don't know if you played around with it yet, but it's like, here's the table. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I did. I printed mine yesterday for my upcoming cause I do it next Tuesday, right? So I was like, my gosh, this is great. Tim Sarrantonio: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did it look? Like did it did it like help personalize it too? Like I think it it's a pretty nifty output. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: It it did. It really did help. So like that was one of my challenges in hosting my first game. You know, there's a couple of different card options under communication and I wasn't sure, you know, which ones would be the best fit. So I went in and I put the scenario, the technology scenario, and that's the one that we're gonna do. We had talked about doing an AI one and I thought there was an AI card and then I couldn't find it. So like it must have been in my Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: There's some AI related cards, but it's the b here's the beauty. You'll be able to write your own like that stuff down the line. It's like there's a reason I gave you a blank card. So if we want to add AI things Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: or or, you know, things specific to different types of situations, like that's the cool part about the game is it's gonna extend. So yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. And I think AI so we did the tech problem, which is you're paying for a software and like, you know, do you need that much software if people aren't gonna use it or do you need to make people use it because you have that software and we need to use it well, which yeah. Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: And you could you could put AI under that for for there, but it might need its own card eventually. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I definitely think it does because I work with so many organizations and AI is an extender, right? It it doesn't replace what we can do, but it does extend what we do into so many new facets that we wouldn't be able to do otherwise. And so Tim Sarrantonio: Well, you know what? How we can develop those new resources is people participating in the growth of the network. As a peer learning network, we're gonna have free resources, free games, right? Sarah's gonna run her own stuff. I'm gonna ask people to even be like, Hey, do you wanna o host your own open gameplay, like in your own community? we're gonna have virtual things, but we're gonna grow the network by either people donating. Right. So people could I've had patrons sponsor boxes for people in different communities, which I think is so cool. my my chiropractor, right? an investment banker. Like these are people who are not on the the radar of the typical generosity prospect list. And and then we have these public openings where I allow people to buy the game directly too. And no matter what, it's 500 bucks. That's it. Right? That we're going back to that five hundred number. Cause Sarah, here's the fascinating thing, because I have taken on zero private equity. I've taken on zero outside debt. I don't have a loan with a bank. This is all basically bootstrapped through donations and because I have a fiscal sponsor. So every time people donate, it goes to a black led nonprofit up in upstate New York, called the Connect Center. And so that they help with the administration, the compliance. I use the space for trainings and stuff like that. But we're also do virtual things, you know, for free. But five hundred is the average donation too. And so we've had people consultants, we've had nonprofits, we've had individuals step up. I have guardians like you to help advise me on where to go. You've already helped make things better. And so that's that's the whole point. That's the whole point. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: thanks. Tim Sarrantonio: I I I just I love it. So Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: we're aiming for our next op public opening in September. the week is September fifteenth, I believe, through the nineteenth. and and I'm gonna try to have some public gameplay and then everybody's gonna be invited to to do some stuff for the nonprofit social media summit in November as well as Giving Tuesday. And then we'll we'll just learn together. So I can't can't wait to keep learning with you, Sarah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That's awesome. Well thank you. Yes. Thank you. We're I can't believe like that conversation went way too fast. Tim, Tim Sarrantonio: Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: can you let everybody know where they can find you and where they can find the generosity round table information? Tim Sarrantonio: yeah, so generosyspectrum dot org is the company page and right now it's focused entirely on the generosity round table world. doesn't mean I won't, you know, have other things in the future, but right now it's all about the generosity round table as kind of our heart. So generosity spectrum dot org has all the resources, all the games. you could find more of the experts network, people besides Sarah. We have about forty experts that are guiding us. and then also I'm on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. and and YouTube, my YouTube presence is growing. I also now have a puppet that that I use to Yeah, mit Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I love it. I love it. Tim Sarrantonio: Met the puppet. People want Mitt. So there's a puppet that basically my kids voice and control and they use it to like raise objections with the entire process and things and so I'm gonna keep kind of like Imagine those guys at the Muppets, they're yelling at the the people on the stage, right? That that's that I have my own version of that. Gotta keep me grounded. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. I love it. And I love that your kids are the voice of it. So Tim Sarrantonio: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on Nonprofit Four One One. I am a huge cheerleader. I want this to be a success. I'm going to be using it in my work. I'm going to be taking it around the state of West Virginia and maybe beyond. if I have opportunity to take it beyond, I will absolutely do that. I this is a tool every nonprofit can benefit having because it it makes hard conversations easier and it gives us direction that we wouldn't have otherwise. So great job. Thank you for the contribution. Yes. Tim Sarrantonio: And it's that bigger peer network, right? It's it's not just the box, right? It's that ongoing learning, right? It's a one-time thing. There's no subscription. There's no subscription. It's just like you get it and let's Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Tim Sarrantonio: learn together. And so Sarah, I can't I I thank you so much for the support. You've been such a rock and and I can't wait to get down to to to to where you are and we can play some games. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, we need to. We need to bring New York to West Virginia. So all right. Tim Sarrantonio: There you go. There you go. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Thanks, Tim. And we will see you next week. Thanks for listening. Bye.