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How Will FinTech and Digital Disruption Change the Mortgage Business? · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents,
• 0:15
  it can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  This has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:35
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
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  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:17
  Welcome to Mortgage Marketing Radio.
• 1:19
  Brought to you by the Mortgage Marketing Institute, your number one source for truth
• 1:24
  in Mortgage Marketing.
• 1:25
  Hey, listeners, what's up?
• 1:28
  This is Jeff Zimper.
• 1:30
  Welcome back to another episode of the Mortgage Marketing Radio podcast.
• 1:35
  And before we get into this week's special guest, I want to let you know, in case you haven't
• 1:38
  heard, have you heard the news, ladies and gentlemen, yes, indeed, the new book is almost
• 1:47
  out.
• 1:48
  And I've got special packages, promos, offers for you, my listeners.
• 1:54
  What the heck am I saying?
• 1:55
  What I'm saying is I'd love to get you on, have you joined the pre-sale list for the
• 1:59
  book?
• 2:00
  The new book Disruptor Die, How to Survive and Thrive, The Digital Real Estate Shift
• 2:03
  is written for both you and real estate agents.
• 2:06
  And it's all about how to navigate and make the shift, how to stay relevant and disrupt
• 2:10
  your proof, disrupt proof your business moving for it.
• 2:12
  Now, would you like to get on the pre-events list for the book before it reaches the general
• 2:16
  public?
• 2:17
  Would you do that?
• 2:18
  Well, because I'm going to make it worth your time, right?
• 2:20
  So much like when you get on the pre-sale list for bands, when they come into town stuff,
• 2:23
  you get the best seats, maybe get a VIP package and stuff like that, I wanted to do something
• 2:27
  similar.
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  No, we're not going to go see the Rolling Stones together, although wouldn't that be cool.
• 2:31
  But what I want to do is put together a special package for you guys, which includes not only
• 2:36
  of course advanced access to the book before it comes available.
• 2:38
  So if you want to gift it to agents, you can definitely do that.
• 2:40
  You can buy that wholesale, by the way.
• 2:42
  But secondly, I wanted to include a special mini-course in there, which is how to disrupt
• 2:47
  proof your business in the digital real estate shift.
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  And that'll be a short series of video modules for me can watch it great from your mobile
• 2:54
  phone.
• 2:55
  That'll be coming with the book pre-release only.
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  And also, we're going to do a live while training webinar in conjunction with the release
• 3:02
  of the book that you will be invited to.
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  And guess what?
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  I've decided you can invite your real estate agents to come to that as well.
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  So it could be a book, gift them the book, have them come to a live training webinar.
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  I'm going to have some special guests on that webinar as well.
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  It's really going to place you in a great position with those agents as pouring in and adding
• 3:20
  value to them, helping them succeed in the digital real estate shift.
• 3:24
  So all about this, how do you get on the pre-sale advanced notice list?
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  You do this.
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  You go to getdisruptordie.com.
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  That's right.
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  Getdisruptordie.com.
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  Just put your info in.
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  And then whenever you're listening to this within a matter of days, right, seven to ten
• 3:40
  days, you'll get notification of the pre-release of the book and you'll be ready to go rock
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  and roll.
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  And that's just for you.
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  My loyal listeners, I appreciate you as always.
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  Thank you.
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  Thank you so much.
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  More details and the process of writing and all that will be revealed as the book comes
• 3:56
  live and all that kind of stuff.
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  So anyway, enough about that.
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  Let's get into my special guest this week, Michael Hammond, who I had the pleasure of
• 4:05
  being connected to by, I think, was Christine Beckwith last week.
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  So if you're listening, Christine, last, did I say last week, last year, if you're listening,
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  thank you so much for that.
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  But Michael is the president and founder of Next Level Advisors.
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  And he does some really cool things in the FinTech space with companies.
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  The bottom line is what they do is they help businesses, move audiences, generate leads,
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  drive sales, and ignite powerful brand stories.
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  Love that.
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  And Michael is a seasoned mortgage technology executive bringing over two decades of leadership
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  management, marketing sales, and technical product experience with his company, Next Level
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  Advisors.
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  Whenever his name has come up in certain circles, it's always come with respect and admiration.
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  And Michael is somebody who's well entrenched in the industry and gets it in terms of what's
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  happening from a FinTech standpoint.
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  And of course, from a direct sales standpoint as well.
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  So I wanted to have Michael on just to talk about what he's seen in the space of FinTech,
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  the whole future digital disruption, just to what degree we need to be concerned or not,
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  how what changes do we need to make.
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  And so it's just a candid conversation around that.
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  And of course, if you want to connect with Michael, we provide means for you to do that
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  for his company, Next Level Advisors.
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  You can connect with him on LinkedIn.
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  It's Michael Hammond, H-A-M-M-O-N-D.
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  And I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I do.
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  Check the show notes for links to how to connect with Michael and so forth.
• 5:32
  And the link to the book, if you want to get on the pre-sale list once again, get DisruptorDi.com
• 5:37
  that's where you can get access to all that good stuff.
• 5:40
  So without further ado, let's get into this week's show.
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  Michael, welcome to the show.
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  Jeff, it's great to be with you today.
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  Thank you for making time.
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  I know you're incredibly busy in great demand, having just come back from a conference.
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  We're going to talk about that.
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  But for the listeners who may not know who Michael Hammond is, tell us about you and your
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  company.
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  Michael Hammond is a 20-some-year veteran in the mortgage technology space, former CEO of
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  Mortgage Cadence.
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  I'm a certified mortgage technologist, chairman of the board for a credit union here in Michigan.
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  Almost my entire career has evolved around tech mortgage technology, financial technology.
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  And what I do now is I'm the president of the founder of Next Level Advisors, who've
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  been in business for over 12 years.
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  And our whole goal is to help other technology companies grow.
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  We do that by we help them engage their audiences, generate leads, drive sales, and create compelling
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  brand stories.
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  Love that.
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  And that is a great, great place for us to actually enter the conversation.
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  Because you work primarily if I'm correct in the mortgage space.
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  In the mortgage technology space, that's primarily where a lot of our technology vendors
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  are.
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  That's where a lot of our customers are.
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  But really, it can span across financial services.
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  So we've had servicing companies, we've had property preservation, default management.
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  You're starting to see a lot more in the real estate side of it, and that convergence
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  of loan officer and real estate agent, and who has the borrower first, and what's going
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  to be more sticky, and who had that touch point.
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  So anything that falls into that realm, we think we can help technology providers grow.
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  Okay.
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  So you're seeing a pretty diverse cross section of companies in the mortgage fintech space
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  out there.
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  And this is why I wanted to have you on today is because you have visibility and access
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  to what companies are actually doing to address what you said at the opening, which is move
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  audiences, generate leads, drive sales, and ignite powerful brand stories.
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  That's a lot.
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  A few of those things, definitely our listeners have an interest in.
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  But can you unpack that just in the context of like a mortgage company, right?
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  The space we're in, the fintech, the disruption that's happening.
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  What do you have companies asking you most about right now, most help with?
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  I think where they're really struggling is that convergence of traditional media and
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  self publishing.
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  So companies want to get their name out there.
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  They want to get brand recognition or the individual L.O. wants to get their name out
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  there and be the known name in that specific demographic or region.
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  And they're struggling with, you know, traditional ads.
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  Do they still work?
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  Maybe, maybe not for the right purposes.
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  Can you get an article published?
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  Yes.
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  But if I'm an individual loan officer, somebody in corporate communications is probably taking
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  care of that.
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  So how do I get my name out there?
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  How do I establish my personal brand?
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  So we get a lot of questions around that.
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  And then it always leads to, I don't know what to do with social media or I don't know
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  how to get on LinkedIn or why would I jump on Instagram where there's no way, I mean,
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  my kids are on TikTok and what the hell would I do with that?
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  But we really try to help them unpack from a corporate perspective and then from that
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  individual personal brand.
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  That's the best way that they can tell their story in a compelling and differentiating
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  way so that they can stand out amongst the crowd.
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  In regards to FinTech and all the buzzwords and the whole disruption, let's take it down
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  to the loan officer perspective.
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  What level of concern do you think the individual producer or originator needs to have about
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  the tech disruption?
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  I think they have to have a healthy appreciation for it.
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  I'll call it, whether you want to call it the Amazon effect or the Zillow effect.
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  If people can go in, if you look at what's happening in the mortgage industry, the cost
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  to originate continues to rise depending on what study you look at.
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  Which, by the way, not to interrupt, but why is that if tech is getting so much, but
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  I read the other day that roughly figured it was Fannie Mae who said, roughly $9,000
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  to originate a purchase transaction.
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  Which is crazy.
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  I mean, you look at it and say, why does manufacturing and loan continue to go up?
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  Now, you can look back a few years back and say, well, when the CFPB came in and there
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  was a ton of more regulation, you can see where the cost.
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  Lenders had to hire attorneys.
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  They had to have compliant staffs.
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  I get some of that.
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  But what's happening with a lot of the tech is in why disruption, I feel, is going to
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  come into this space, is there's still a ton of inefficiencies.
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  So, three, four, five years ago, all of the talk was about the point of sale thinking
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  that that was going to be the magic button that would solve and deliver an incredible
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  borrower experience.
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  And what Lenders are realizing is that wonderful website or that mobile app so the loan officer
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  can do whatever they need to on the weekends, off hours, and deliver what that borrower
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  is asking.
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  There's only part of the equation.
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  If you do all of this great stuff at the point of sale and it still takes you 45, 50 days,
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  60 days to close on the loan, it's not a great borrower experience.
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  So why an individual loan officer should be somewhat worried or at least have a healthy
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  appreciation for a fintech of an Amazon or a Zillow coming in.
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  What they're going to do probably better than anyone has so far in the industry or at least
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  in the last five, ten years is they're going to automate a lot of the manual tasks on
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  the back end of the process that is taking up those 10 days, 15 days, 20 days, and the
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  longer those days go, the lower the borrower, the lower the borrower satisfaction is and
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  the higher the cost it is to originate that loan.
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  So that's where some of this is going to come in now.
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  They should have a healthy appreciation for that because it means they're going to have
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  to up their gain.
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  Now, one of the things that the disruption probably can't do is they're not going to
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  know that individual location, they're not going to know that individual demographic
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  as well as that loan officer or that real estate does in that specific community.
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  And so it's going to be critical for them to have better and more engaged relationships.
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  Now, can they use technology to take care of some of the manual stuff so that they can
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  spend more time with the potential borrower educating them, providing information to them
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  when and where they need it?
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  Yeah, it's funny because I was doing some research for my book coming out here in
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  a couple of weeks and I'm trying to pull up the actual data point on that.
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  But in the terms of like in so blockchain, right, you mentioned AI, blockchain is another
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  thing.
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  And so to your point as well, I'm glad you brought up the point of, you know, people
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  throw around buzzwords and all that kind of stuff all the time and we need to put in
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  the right context in the reality of something like like I was reading regarding blockchain,
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  having the potential to issue a full-blown mortgage credit approval in 10 minutes, right?
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  Right.
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  I mean, but how far off is that is still quite a ways off?
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  I would agree and again, that's only a fraction of the entire mortgage process.
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  So even if you can get that done in 10 minutes, if all of the other processes haven't been
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  touched and still takes you 45 days to close on the loan, what good is it?
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  What good is it?
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  It didn't really improve the borrower experience.
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  All it did is magnify one area of the process and that's why I think holistically lenders
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  have to look at it and say, if we're going to look at it from a borrower journey perspective,
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  that's where it's going to have the impact and I think for too long, the mortgage industry
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  has looked at a mortgage as a transaction, it has not looked at it as a revelation ship
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  with the borrower and understanding that the borrower over the life of that borrower,
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  they may get 7 to 11 loans over their entire life.
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  So if the focus, if the technology, if the automation process is view it more from
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  a, instead of a single transaction to really a borrower for life, you're going to see a lot
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  of the other technologies that you're going to come in and streamline for the entire flow,
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  then just saying, hey, I got a credit decision in 10 minutes, but it's going to take me two
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  weeks to underwrite the loan.
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  What do you see as the company's appetites to be willing to invest in this kind of technology?
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  Well, I think what's helping with that is the Amazon effect.
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  If the borrower is getting an incredible experience on all of their other purchasing decisions,
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  whether it's online, whether it's through Amazon, whether I can order a car, now the
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  consumer is being conditioned, I should expect that if I go on Amazon and I click and I
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  order a book, I'm going to get it later today or tomorrow.
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  And if I can go online and I can order a car and now it's going to pull up in my driveway
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  and the next day or the next two days, why can't I do that with my mortgage and why is
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  my mortgage taking 45 days?
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  If it was left just to the lender, I'd say we still have a long way to go.
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  But with the borrower now forcing the issue, I think more of this fintech is coming into
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  play.
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  That's why you saw a lot of people investing in the point of sale and really trying to
• 15:29
  improve that point of sale.
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  Almost everyone I talked to, you mentioned the conference, I just got back from the
• 15:35
  next conference in Dallas, Mortgage and Women in Mortgage Technology Conference in one
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  of the key words that almost everyone mentioned that I interviewed and talked to was we've
• 15:45
  got to automate the back end of the process.
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  We've got to automate the back end.
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  So I think the appetite is increasing.
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  One of the other things that almost every lender says to me when I say well then how do
• 15:57
  you vet technology and if you're going to embrace new technology, what is a good decision
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  again?
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  Then it all comes back to a duck.
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  If it doesn't fit into my current tech stack, I don't care how cool, I don't care how shiny
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  or how many promises, we're probably not going to move forward.
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  You're saying that's what companies are saying?
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  That's what lenders are saying.
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  When I ask them how do you vet technology, what are some of the most important things when
• 16:23
  you're looking at technology, they say if it doesn't fit within our current tech stack,
• 16:28
  we're probably not that interested in moving forward.
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  That is very interesting.
• 16:32
  That sounds to me like those that are willing to adapt then will wind up beating that person
• 16:38
  that's not.
• 16:39
  Exactly.
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  Then the other comment that they always make, and this was a great comment, it was from Kevin
• 16:45
  Pranio over here in G that said it needs to be noticeably different.
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  Do you think that's valid?
• 16:53
  I think it's very valid and here's why.
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  If you look at almost every aspect of the mortgage process already has current technology.
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  There's technology to audit credit, flood, tidal appraisal, there's loan origination
• 17:06
  systems, there's POS, there's stock systems, so it's a displacement sale.
• 17:12
  You've got to displace somebody, so you're going to displace somebody and have a rip it
• 17:17
  out of their current tech stack and fit into their tech stack and have that new solution.
• 17:23
  It means that noticeably different.
• 17:25
  If it's not providing a significant value, then let's move on and automate a different
• 17:30
  area or aspect of the mortgage process because we're not going to get the ROI on that.
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  What other areas though are there to optimize or improve, because we've got the front end.
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  Obviously, by individual companies, different based on what they've invested in or not.
• 17:47
  But in general, the front end process of applying for a mortgage has been greatly improved.
• 17:55
  I would agree with that, but if you even take it a step back before they're them taking
• 18:00
  an app, I think there could be a ton done on the front end of lead generation in the mortgage
• 18:05
  space.
• 18:06
  There's a lot of people running around creating leads, selling leads are the leads validated.
• 18:12
  Have they been scrubbed?
• 18:14
  More importantly is that lead provider selling the same leads to ABC mortgage company, XYZ
• 18:21
  mortgage company, business model.
• 18:25
  That business model.
• 18:26
  That's a struggle.
• 18:27
  I think the other thing that's happening where you're going to see a lot of innovation
• 18:31
  and some disruption is how to better engage the borrower.
• 18:36
  Okay.
• 18:37
  You got me on that.
• 18:38
  The point of sale has a website and that's great, but how do you get the borrower to the
• 18:43
  website and more importantly, how do you continue to stay engaged if we're looking at it instead
• 18:49
  of a single transaction of a long-term relationship and borrower for life?
• 18:54
  So there's a lot of new automation out there and a lot of new tech out there that is using
• 19:00
  phone is using phone messaging, voiceless messaging is using text messaging.
• 19:06
  If you look at a lot of the studies in the mortgage industry, very few lenders are embracing
• 19:10
  text, texting yet.
• 19:13
  But the response rate is typically about 80 to 90 percent within two minutes.
• 19:19
  Is there an excuse you hear about the texting thing?
• 19:22
  Well, I think it's again, it's a comfortability for lenders.
• 19:26
  I don't know.
• 19:27
  That's pretty evasive.
• 19:28
  I don't want somebody to text me.
• 19:29
  Well, years go they didn't want somebody to call them and then a few shorter years they
• 19:33
  didn't want somebody to email them.
• 19:35
  I think the progressive lenders are using text, but I think the key is you have to have
• 19:41
  a platform that is multi-channel so that you have text, you have email, you have voice.
• 19:49
  And when you combine it, what you're trying to do is not bother the hell out of the borrower,
• 19:54
  right?
• 19:55
  So if I send them 10 texts in two hours or in two days, I irritated and I'm annoying.
• 20:02
  But if I have a system that can automate it and say, okay, the first day I'm going to
• 20:06
  call, the second day they're going to get a text, the third day they're going to get
• 20:10
  an email and then the fourth day I'll pick up and follow up with another call.
• 20:15
  Those are different touch points that are not as annoying.
• 20:19
  And if you have the right sequence and the right workflow built in, they can be very,
• 20:23
  very effective.
• 20:24
  So I think there's an area not just with point of sale, but prior to point of sale that
• 20:29
  can help out quite a bit.
• 20:31
  Sure.
• 20:32
  Doing kind of like the dating phase, right before you start to getting engaged, the kicking
• 20:36
  the tires, all that.
• 20:38
  Exactly.
• 20:39
  And then as we talked about, I think social media and have a great impact on that also.
• 20:44
  Right?
• 20:45
  And you've got to go to where your potential borrowers are at.
• 20:49
  So depending on the type of loan programs that you offer, depending on are you consumer
• 20:53
  direct, are you retail, are you wholesale, what is it that you are, the better you can
• 20:59
  interact with your potential borrowers, whether that's on Facebook, whether that's on Instagram,
• 21:05
  whether that's now on TikTok or, you know, you've got to be where your potential borrowers
• 21:11
  are at.
• 21:12
  And it's not always with the sales pitch.
• 21:13
  No.
• 21:14
  Right.
• 21:15
  100%.
• 21:16
  Yeah.
• 21:17
  And it's very interesting.
• 21:18
  So it's a whole conversation in and of itself engaging with prospects, clients and things
• 21:23
  like that.
• 21:24
  You mentioned texting.
• 21:25
  I agree.
• 21:26
  I think there's a big opportunity for people to integrate texting in a variety of ways,
• 21:28
  which brings me to the research I've been doing recently also on messaging apps, whether
• 21:33
  they're chatbots or Facebook Messenger and things like that.
• 21:37
  What most people, and I didn't know this either, is that, according to, this is a quote
• 21:41
  from a Debbie Dority, head of marketing at Viber, which is a messaging app.
• 21:48
  And you probably will know this well.
• 21:49
  But most of the amount of time people spend on messaging apps is actually bigger than social
• 21:54
  media.
• 21:55
  Right.
• 21:56
  One time spent on messaging apps than in social media.
• 21:58
  Yeah.
• 21:59
  I mean, everyone's got their phone.
• 22:01
  I don't care.
• 22:02
  What demographic you fit.
• 22:03
  Almost everybody is walking around with the smartphone and what are they looking at?
• 22:07
  They're always looking at the text.
• 22:09
  They're always responding to a text.
• 22:11
  And then they get on social media.
• 22:13
  That's not that social is a bad platform.
• 22:15
  But I agree with you.
• 22:17
  Text is where a lot of it's at.
• 22:18
  And quite frankly, a lot of lenders aren't leveraging that as well as they could.
• 22:22
  Yeah.
• 22:23
  And just to go on here, a survey from, I've got all this so readily handy right now just
• 22:28
  because of the book.
• 22:30
  But a survey from BI Intelligence talking about chatbots that more than half of the users
• 22:35
  between 18 and 55 are using chatbots.
• 22:38
  And there's more data about how customers, 45% of consumers say they would choose them
• 22:42
  over email to get in touch with a business and all that.
• 22:45
  So this is just in the context of thinking about the customer journey and how do they prefer
• 22:49
  to engage with you in those early stages.
• 22:53
  Exactly.
• 22:54
  I was talking to a lender the other day and they said 78% of their loans that come in come
• 23:00
  in after hours.
• 23:01
  Yeah, exactly.
• 23:02
  Right.
• 23:03
  Yep.
• 23:04
  So how are you interacting, whether it's a chatbot, whether it's a live chat, and somebody
• 23:08
  is on that 24-7, or do you have automation that is going to send them the information
• 23:14
  they need when and where they want it, you know, a borrower was going to work traditional
• 23:18
  borrower is going to work all day.
• 23:19
  They're going to come home.
• 23:21
  They may have kids as fast.
• 23:22
  They're going to have dinner.
• 23:23
  They're going to have to do the homework.
• 23:25
  And then guess what?
• 23:26
  They put their kids to bed and now it's 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night is when they're going
• 23:30
  to start looking at what loan programs are going to fit, who's got the best rates.
• 23:34
  Yep.
• 23:35
  And if you're not meeting those needs, whether it's through chatbots, whether it's through
• 23:40
  AI, whether it's through text, you're missing out on a huge opportunity.
• 23:44
  Yeah.
• 23:45
  They're going to sit there with this device while they're watching Netflix, right?
• 23:49
  And browse some websites and social media and try and find the information that they're
• 23:53
  looking for.
• 23:54
  Absolutely.
• 23:55
  Yeah.
• 23:56
  It all comes back to the UI, right?
• 23:58
  The user experience, user interface, that kind of stuff.
• 24:02
  So I think the big question from this is, yeah, are we, it's like I forget who said
• 24:07
  it, right?
• 24:08
  Are we being a modern, you know, a savvy communicator using today's contemporary tools?
• 24:15
  Right.
• 24:16
  And right now, I think that's the struggle.
• 24:18
  So, you know, if somebody comes in and says, hey, we know how to use technology and we
• 24:23
  can put a lot of these systems in place.
• 24:25
  And so we can respond to the potential bar within two minutes or within five minutes.
• 24:31
  And it takes a credit union two days to get back who's going to win the business most
• 24:35
  of the time.
• 24:37
  Do you help companies in setting up, you know, their lead generation strategy?
• 24:41
  We do.
• 24:42
  And again, depending on what lead gen strategy they're focusing on, if they have a call
• 24:47
  center, can we train their callers, yes, but am I looking to create a whole call center
• 24:51
  for somebody?
• 24:52
  No.
• 24:53
  I mean, there's enough ways out there to do that, but can we help with that?
• 24:56
  But a lot of it, you really have to understand what is your potential borrowers journey.
• 25:03
  And I don't think a lot of times people take the time to understand what that journey
• 25:06
  looks like.
• 25:07
  What are those different touch points?
• 25:09
  What are the different channels that they interact with?
• 25:13
  And how can I best leverage technology to create greater efficiencies, right?
• 25:17
  A smaller credit union, a smaller lender could be very efficient in using some of the technology
• 25:23
  just to respond to a potential borrower in after hours, the same way that a B of A or
• 25:28
  a well-skut.
• 25:30
  Right?
• 25:31
  So technology can level the playing field for some if used properly and implemented
• 25:36
  at the right time.
• 25:39
  I was thinking about this question.
• 25:40
  You don't have to name names if it's not appropriate, but I was thinking about who do you see adapting,
• 25:50
  you know, and making the pivots that are going to be required.
• 25:53
  And do you see that happening more in the mid-tier and small versus the big, you know,
• 25:57
  eight-on-pound gorillas?
• 25:58
  Right.
• 25:59
  I would say it's probably meant to mid-high, because they have the budget.
• 26:05
  Yeah, well, the super big have a trouble because they can't be as agile, right?
• 26:10
  So it's a lot harder to turn that massive ship for them.
• 26:14
  So they're going to kind of pick and choose.
• 26:16
  They're going to see what's going on out there.
• 26:18
  And then they're going to implement an execute that middle high,
• 26:21
  they have enough money, they have enough resources, and they're growing.
• 26:26
  They see that they can grab market share.
• 26:28
  They see that in this new decade of lending.
• 26:32
  If you're doing what you did five or 10 years ago,
• 26:34
  you're probably not going to be around in another five or eight years.
• 26:38
  So those companies, I see that they're large enough to have the resources and the insights
• 26:44
  and the drive to, you know, really implement.
• 26:48
  Those are the ones that are doing it probably the most.
• 26:50
  And then you're going to see some of the startup, some of these smaller lenders that say,
• 26:54
  hey, there's a better way.
• 26:55
  I can do this with the sales force.
• 26:57
  I can do this with another product.
• 27:00
  I can reach out and engage with people.
• 27:02
  I'm using, you know, Facebook, I'm using Instagram.
• 27:05
  I'm using some of those tools.
• 27:08
  Those are probably the two groups that I see making the biggest impact.
• 27:12
  The people that are, you know, at the bottom end of the low are probably lagers and
• 27:17
  late adapters.
• 27:18
  And they're going to be really in trouble if they don't start embracing the technology
• 27:23
  and finding out how that technology can be used to really free up their people.
• 27:28
  Because the other thing that's going to happen is more things get automated.
• 27:32
  There's going to be a huge demand for top talent, whether it's a loan officer, whether
• 27:36
  it's an underwriter and what I mean by that is the technology is typically going to automate
• 27:41
  the easy and manual repetitive tasks.
• 27:45
  So let's just use an underwriter, for instance, if you can automate and manually handle a lot
• 27:51
  of the easy tasks in underwriting, then what type of underwriter do you need?
• 27:56
  The entry level underwriter, no, you need the one who can be exception based and really
• 28:01
  understand how to deal with the challenging ones that couldn't be automated and couldn't
• 28:07
  go through that manual process.
• 28:09
  And so there's going to be a huge battle for top talent.
• 28:13
  And I think the companies that can deliver great technology and make it easier for that
• 28:18
  top talent to do their job, whether it's the LO and tools to bring in new leads, tools
• 28:22
  to communicate more effectively with their borrowers throughout the whole process, those
• 28:28
  are the companies that are going to win the battle for the top talent in my money.
• 28:32
  So you think the threat, the disruption threat within the mortgage space is perhaps first
• 28:41
  and foremost or most impactfully within the operations side versus the sales?
• 28:49
  I think it's going to impact both, but I think in the near term, yes, I would say operational
• 28:54
  side more, because you can still, the tools are available for the loan officer to get
• 29:01
  on social media and start doing a lot more, right?
• 29:05
  And it's going to become more about engagement than having a bot that's just going to go find
• 29:09
  5,000 followers, right?
• 29:11
  So I would say the back end is going to be impacted first by disruption because they're
• 29:17
  going to take care of those manual tasks, they're going to cut the closing days instead
• 29:20
  of 45, can they get it down to 28, can they get it down to 20?
• 29:25
  That's where the disruption is going to have its biggest impact first.
• 29:29
  Then they'll move to more of the front end or more of the lead gen, but again, some of
• 29:33
  that when it comes to engagement, you can't automate all of that.
• 29:37
  You want to automate the task that you can so that people have more time for the engagement
• 29:42
  and what the borrowers looking for in that experience.
• 29:45
  Yeah, and that's an interesting discussion as well, if I could bring that back up here,
• 29:50
  because even with the advent of technology, and you know this better than most, is that
• 29:56
  people want a blend of both, really.
• 29:58
  Right, it's not an all or nothing proposition.
• 30:03
  Yeah, they want to be able to have the convenience of finding the information and on their phone
• 30:07
  and having the simple front end app and maybe getting questions answered at that 10 PM
• 30:13
  at night and not having to wait till 9 AM to you open and all that stuff.
• 30:17
  But then at the point of where they're ready to move forward, that's where they're looking
• 30:21
  for the professional guide, the advisor.
• 30:24
  Exactly, and that's where you're going to have that battle for top talent, because the
• 30:28
  load officer that can provide that guidance, that insight not only to the local market,
• 30:34
  but why a 30 year would be better than a 15 year than an FHA product or a jumbo loan
• 30:41
  or whatever it may be, when that person turns to a trusted advisor, and the biggest
• 30:48
  challenge right now in the mortgage industry is it's not just, oh baby broolers do this,
• 30:53
  millennials do this, Gen-wide does this, it's a blend, so you can't just have a one-size-fits-all
• 30:59
  proposition back to that end borrower.
• 31:03
  Do you spend a lot of time looking at the Ibuyer market?
• 31:10
  You know, I think it's coming up more and more.
• 31:14
  I think it's one of those where, conceptually, kind of a cool idea, conceptually, they're
• 31:22
  starting to get their legs under them a little bit, but when I talk to lenders, you don't
• 31:27
  hear a lot of lenders totally threatened by the Ibuyer at this time.
• 31:31
  Oh, from the mortgage side, yeah.
• 31:32
  From the mortgage side, I don't see that from real estate, you probably, and I know you
• 31:36
  talked to more realtors and everything else than I do, you're probably seeing it on their
• 31:40
  side a little bit more.
• 31:42
  Yeah, for sure.
• 31:44
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  In particular markets, of course, Arizona where I'm here in Nevada, I forget the last
• 31:50
  stat I saw, open door courses, the leader in Arizona, I think they were anywhere between
• 31:54
  six and 10% of the market transactions in Arizona.
• 31:57
  Okay, so I think from the real estate, yeah, that's something I'm going to be readily aware
• 32:03
  of right now.
• 32:04
  I think from the mortgage side of it, the panic button has not been hit yet.
• 32:09
  It's more of, I've heard about the term, I kind of see it happening out there.
• 32:14
  Let's wait and see until it impacts my business and my bottom line.
• 32:18
  Yeah, interesting stuff I know.
• 32:21
  And of course, it's a little now becoming a mortgage company and again, I think that goes
• 32:24
  back to kind of what we talked about originally is like the buzzwords and the AI and people
• 32:28
  tend to focus on either what's what's bright and shiny, right?
• 32:32
  Because it's sexy and new, tick-tock, I have a whole rant on tick-tock or what's sounds
• 32:42
  threatening and looming, you know, because it gets attention.
• 32:46
  Exactly, it gets attention to everyone's jumping on it, but what is the AI doing?
• 32:52
  If you can say I cut out these 15 steps and it took from 10 days to two hours, then
• 32:59
  there's some, that's real.
• 33:02
  If you talk about on the back end of the mortgage docs and you can use AI and visual recognition
• 33:09
  and now it can store all of that loan information and now I have it at my disposal and it can
• 33:16
  go and clean up those loans and it can automate certain things on the back end, okay?
• 33:20
  And there's some validity, but just throwing AI out there and you go to any trade show and
• 33:25
  you see it on a bunch of boots, AI and everything like that, I think right now lenders are kind
• 33:32
  of fascinated by it because it's a shiny object and they're also, you know, a big portion
• 33:37
  of them that are still very skeptical saying, so what is that going to do for my business?
• 33:41
  Yeah.
• 33:43
  You do some work in helping companies going back to kind of your bio here, generate leads,
• 33:48
  drive sales?
• 33:49
  Correct.
• 33:50
  Is there a particular place you see companies being more successful in terms of generating
• 33:57
  leads?
• 33:58
  I assume that's online.
• 33:59
  It's online.
• 34:00
  It can be in person because again, the mortgage business is still about relationships.
• 34:05
  So if we take, you know, a tech company who wants to sell into banks, lenders and credit
• 34:11
  unions, they still need to be, you can't do it all online, right?
• 34:15
  Money is not going to buy a loan origination system just because they saw an online debt.
• 34:19
  They're going to probably want to meet people.
• 34:21
  They're going to want to talk to your prospects.
• 34:23
  They're going to want to research who are the other lenders in my area or at my size that
• 34:28
  are using that system and have had success with it.
• 34:31
  So when we talk strategies, I think engagement is critical.
• 34:36
  I think a tool, especially from a B2B perspective, LinkedIn can be very, very powerful.
• 34:41
  I think there's still a lot of executives that are scared to use LinkedIn or say, I don't
• 34:46
  see the value in what I can say.
• 34:48
  And I'm sure you have the same experience.
• 34:50
  You go to a conference now and people are like, hey, Michael Hammond.
• 34:54
  And now I finally learned I'm like, LinkedIn and they're like, yeah, we connected on LinkedIn
• 34:58
  a month ago, two weeks ago, a year ago.
• 35:02
  So what it does now, though, is going to those conferences, people feel that they know
• 35:08
  me.
• 35:09
  They've seen a video.
• 35:10
  They've listened to a podcast.
• 35:11
  They've seen an interaction like this so that when I meet with them, they feel that there's
• 35:15
  a little bit of history and we can have a deeper discussion.
• 35:18
  And then the whole relationship is then enhanced and moved forward.
• 35:22
  So we'll give a lot of tactics to help companies in how do they improve engagement and how
• 35:29
  do they leverage in person using technology, using text, using, you know, social media
• 35:36
  platforms, using email marketing, automation to really make sure that they're visible and
• 35:43
  highly relevant to that company when they're making that purchase decision.
• 35:48
  So you're a believer in personal brand?
• 35:51
  Absolutely.
• 35:52
  Both companies and individuals.
• 35:53
  Yeah.
• 35:54
  I think too many companies are scared for to have some of their individuals create a very
• 35:58
  powerful brand and they feel very threatened, you know, the owner of a tech company is going
• 36:03
  to get very threatened when let's just say they're direct or sales and marketing or PR
• 36:08
  or their customer success manager now starts becoming a household name and they're not.
• 36:14
  And what I have found is if people create an incredible brand for themselves, all that
• 36:21
  does is enhance what they say then about that company, you know, we looked at, you look
• 36:27
  at somebody like a Chelsea Pikes, I heard her speak at a housing where you're engaged
• 36:31
  last year.
• 36:32
  Does everything she do on Instagram or a book, is it all business related?
• 36:37
  No, but people by watching, you know, what she's doing on Instagram feel they know who
• 36:42
  she is.
• 36:43
  So then when she says, this is what's important to engage as a financial institution for
• 36:49
  a realtor, for a loan officer, for an executive, there's much greater believability and much
• 36:54
  greater trust because they've already feel that there's that great personal brand and
• 36:59
  they feel that they somehow know that individual, I think it's a huge area where a lot of companies
• 37:04
  are missing out by not embracing personal branding and letting their teams really run
• 37:09
  with it.
• 37:10
  I know the corporate communications people want to control all the messaging and we want
• 37:15
  to have one voice consistency, but people buy from people they know people buy from people
• 37:20
  they like and they're not just buying from that company, they're buying from the sales
• 37:25
  team, the marketing team, the customer success team.
• 37:28
  So I'm a big proponent of personal branding and I think that's where a lot of companies
• 37:33
  are going to see that convergence of personal branding and still taking advantage of traditional,
• 37:38
  you know, whether it's PR, whether it's marketing, whether it's, you know, getting articles
• 37:43
  written, interviews and everything like that, that conversion is happening.
• 37:47
  Well, let's kind of close on on that thread of personal branding because I mean, that's
• 37:51
  the age that we're living in now and that is, I think, a struggle in full transparency.
• 37:56
  I know it's been for me in being personal out there and putting it out there.
• 38:03
  Any advice or tips on how people can make that transition to having a more kind of public
• 38:08
  persona?
• 38:09
  I think for the first thing is you've got to start putting yourself out there and I'll
• 38:14
  share a story last year when I was at housing where you're engaged and I kept talking about
• 38:18
  it.
• 38:19
  You know, you can see I've been in the industry a number of years, over 20, so I'm not
• 38:22
  the youngest guy on the block when we're talking about personal branding and social media.
• 38:27
  And what I really looked at is I had to take a look in the mirror and say, I don't want
• 38:30
  to be left behind a year ago, Jeff, I didn't even know how to take a selfie, yes.
• 38:37
  But in listening to speaker after speaker talk about the power of video and how important
• 38:44
  it is to get your personal brand out there.
• 38:46
  What I realized is even though we were doing a lot of great things, a lot of great strategies
• 38:51
  and helping companies grow, we always were doing it on the back end and people are like,
• 38:55
  who is this Michael?
• 38:56
  Secret.
• 38:57
  And I didn't want to be the best kept secret anymore.
• 39:00
  So the best tip I can say is first get started and then I would share things that you're
• 39:05
  passionate about.
• 39:07
  If you don't want to share your kids age and don't want to show pictures to your kids
• 39:10
  great, don't do that, but you can still share your personal opinions on some aspect of
• 39:16
  the mortgage business or I do a lot on leadership when I do a weekly LinkedIn video.
• 39:22
  So it may be on leadership or pain points that people are addressing.
• 39:26
  So it may not be personal aspects of exactly when I graduated from high school or that I'm
• 39:32
  married in the age of my kids and exactly what they do.
• 39:36
  And I can still share a personal side of myself where people can feel like they've gotten
• 39:42
  to know Michael Hammond a little bit better without necessarily giving away everything.
• 39:48
  And that is the shift I think just to highlight that once again is that is the shift that for
• 39:51
  those of us that have been in sales or the business world for 20 plus years.
• 39:57
  That is what's happened is people now want to do business with like you said, the old cliche,
• 40:01
  no like and trust, but they actually do want to feel like they know you at some level.
• 40:06
  Your point about Chelsea, that's what it works very well for Chelsea is she creates this personal
• 40:10
  connection and following with people who now become fans. You know, it's a bit weird to take on,
• 40:17
  but I think then you realize that this is the world we live in that people want to transparency.
• 40:24
  They absolutely do and people think, okay, well, you're creating all that and make it all about
• 40:30
  yourself. It's not about painting myself on the back and just saying, hey, I'm awesome.
• 40:34
  It's I try to share something. I've seen a lot of posts recently on LinkedIn where people say,
• 40:40
  hey, I'm really struggling with this ass back in. And the way I phrase that is they're being genuine
• 40:45
  and authentic. They're not trying to sell someone instantly. They're sharing part of the struggle,
• 40:50
  whether it's being a loan officer, whether it's being a real estate agent, whether it's a tech vendor,
• 40:56
  but that genuine authentic sharing, commenting and not just to drive by social posts and clicking
• 41:03
  like, but actually saying, Jeff, that was a really good insight. I liked how you shared X, Y, and Z.
• 41:09
  That just builds better relationships and social media and LinkedIn and all of these others are just
• 41:15
  a tool to help build that relationship just like the phone was how many years ago, just like
• 41:22
  email then became it's another tool if used properly can really foster great relationships out
• 41:28
  there and improve engagement. Yeah, and I guess lastly on that, you know, talking about how times have
• 41:33
  changed and you, you know, we're talking about tech through this conversation, texting. So,
• 41:38
  I mean, the way to engage and connect with people has changed. They used to answer the phones.
• 41:43
  They used to take office meetings. I mean, people don't really do that anymore. So how do you
• 41:48
  reach people? You reach them, of course, the mediums we're talking about. Exactly. And I think one
• 41:53
  of the comments that Linda said to me from this last conference, before I agree to any of those
• 41:59
  product demonstrations, I look to people up on social media and find out do they have a presence.
• 42:03
  Yes. Not only do they have a presence in what are they saying? Who else is following them in my
• 42:09
  circles? And if the answer is zero, then you know what? That demo is probably not going to happen.
• 42:14
  Interesting point. That's a credibility thing. Absolutely. It's like the version of online
• 42:18
  reviews, you know? Right. And they're looking and saying, who in my circle? I had the other day
• 42:24
  a vendor reach out to me and want to talk to me and kind of pick my brain. And then they said,
• 42:28
  oh, by the way, I see you work with and post a lot about this other company. We're really
• 42:34
  interested in talking to them. Interesting. Interesting. It's all. And that's all from the online
• 42:39
  personas that are out there. That's all happening without you even knowing it. Right.
• 42:43
  So you might be getting not even invited to the dance just because of that. Exactly.
• 42:49
  Interesting. I heard once I interviewed an agent once and you know, people sometimes challenge
• 42:54
  the whole, hey, do I need to be online? I'm still doing business, all that kind of stuff.
• 42:58
  And I like the way he put it in context. And we all know this. People are going to look you up
• 43:01
  before they call you for the referral and all that. But you know, he said how like online today,
• 43:06
  your presence online, you are being judged by your online presence because it is the yellow pages
• 43:11
  of today. Absolutely. Like if I can't look you up, how can you be legit? Right. I mean, the people
• 43:19
  who have a LinkedIn profile and no picture. Oh my god. credibility is dropped. I mean,
• 43:24
  it's amazing that people still do that. Well, I didn't want to put my picture. I posted something
• 43:29
  today that LinkedIn now has partnered through Microsoft since Microsoft owns LinkedIn.
• 43:34
  You can go into a Microsoft store and get a new LinkedIn headshot for free. You posted that.
• 43:39
  That's where it came from. I saw that. I saw from someone else. I was not the original poster,
• 43:43
  but I shared it at least in the financial services sector today by passing that along.
• 43:49
  Yeah, exactly. Actually, it made me think maybe I should go in there and do that. But I'm like,
• 43:53
  why I have everything here? But great share, great, great inform to share. And that's an example,
• 43:58
  right? Curate that little piece of content and just feed that off to your network.
• 44:02
  Absolutely. Love it. Okay. Cool. We know you're doing a lot of good stuff with companies,
• 44:06
  helping them get clear on their brand, right? The financial technical strategy, help them become
• 44:11
  modern, right? You come into the current age for anybody listening, be it an individual or a
• 44:16
  company leader. What's the best way for them to connect with you? They can connect with me on LinkedIn,
• 44:21
  just go to Michael Hammond and then they can connect with me. DM me. I'll be more than happy to talk to
• 44:27
  them. They can also email me at M Hammond, H-A-M-M-O-N-D, at next level advisors. There's no T in it.
• 44:35
  So it's N-E-X-L-E-V-E-L-A-D-V-I-S-O-R-S dot com. And then go to our website,
• 44:43
  same URL, nextleveladvisors dot com. I'd be more than happy to speak to them. DM me on LinkedIn,
• 44:49
  whatever it is. I'd love to pick up the phone and talk. We can have a discussion. It's great fit.
• 44:54
  Awesome. If it's not, I'll be more than happy to share what I know in the industry and
• 44:58
  any way that I can add value and give back is what it's all about. Awesome. Well, I know you're making a
• 45:03
  big impact in the industry. It's great to be able to connect with you when we did last year.
• 45:08
  Anything I've ever heard when your name comes up, it's always with utmost respect and like,
• 45:13
  yeah, Michael knows this stuff. That's usually what everybody's saying. Thank you very much. If I
• 45:18
  greatly appreciate that, I'm a huge fan of your podcast. You've been blazing the trail for
• 45:23
  quite some time. So if I can pick up some tips from what you're doing and follow that trail,
• 45:29
  I greatly appreciate you forging the way. You bet. Thank you for being here. And listeners,
• 45:33
  as always, we appreciate you. You know what to do. If you like this episode, hey, leave us a review
• 45:37
  wherever you're listening to this. We appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 45:54
  Hey guys, what's up real quick? You've heard about the mortgage marketing pro membership before.
• 46:12
  And I just want to quickly remind you of that you're in a place in your business where you simply
• 46:16
  need more purchased loans. You need to fill your pipeline with purchase business. Let's just face
• 46:21
  it, agents are still a solid pillar of business and sources of purchase business for you.
• 46:27
  Well, good news. Our mortgage marketing pro membership helps loan officers like you close more
• 46:31
  loans without the hassle of chasing agents or cold calling done for you agent classes, expert
• 46:37
  training videos, a marketing automation platform that automates the entire process for you,
• 46:42
  everything you need to build your personal brand in your local market, attract and convert agents
• 46:47
  into referral partners. Plus done for you proven marketing materials and plug and play content
• 46:53
  to make promoting your class, getting agents, butts and seeds, partnering with affiliates,
• 46:58
  real easy. But that's not all. You'll also get access to our weekly mastermind calls
• 47:04
  with top L.O.'s authors, speakers and coaches to learn the best strategies to grow your business
• 47:09
  right now in today's market. And as an extra bonus for limited time, for all new members,
• 47:15
  you'll get access to a database of 200 agents in your local market that have closed anywhere to
• 47:21
  from eight to 50 transactions in the last 12 months. And we'll provide that list uploaded into
• 47:27
  our platform for you so you can get off to a fast start in reaching actually productive agents.
• 47:33
  So what are you waiting for? You can check out more at mortgagemarketing.pro, see more of the
• 47:37
  success stories there. And if you feel compelled to do so, book a call, we'll have a chat. We'll see
• 47:42
  if it's a fit. Don't miss out on this opportunity to take your mortgage business to the next level
• 47:47
  right now. Head over to mortgagemarketing.pro.