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Mastering Amazon CTR The Power of Optimized Hero Images with John Aspinall · Selling on Giants: The eCommerce Marketplace Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Selling on Giants, the podcast that dives deep into the strategies that fuel success in the e-commerce world.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Mr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wimmel, and today we have a conversation lined up that's sure to add tremendous value to your Amazon business.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Joining us is John Espinall, the brand ambassador at PicFu.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: John is a seasoned expert in e-commerce and digital marketing with a wealth of experience in Amazon click-through rate optimization and product merchandising.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: At PicFoo, John has become the go-to resource for brands looking to refine their Amazon strategies, specifically when it comes to making hero images that not only catch the eye, but also drive those crucial click-through rates.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: In his career, John has worn many hats, from working with Amazon agencies to holding multiple utility pens.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's an expert in using A-B testing to make data-driven decisions.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And today he's here to share his insights on how you can maximize your Amazon click-through rate by mastering the art of the hero image optimization.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Some key takeaways from our conversation.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Learn why the hero image is the most important visual element on your Amazon listing and how to design one that captures attention and drives clicks.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: John discusses the frequent mistakes brands make with their hero images and provides tips on how to avoid these pitfalls to enhance listing performance.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Discover the importance of A B testing your hero images and the strategies that can help you find a winning design that resonates with your audience and understand the consumer psychology behind effective hero images and how to use visual triggers to improve engagement and conversions.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Get ahead of the curve with the latest trends in hero image design and how to keep your listings and competitiveness in a crowded marketplace.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in to gain valuable strategies from John that will help you take your Amazon listing to the next level.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a season seller or just starting, this episode is packed with insights that can transform your approach to listing optimization.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive into the world of hero images and learn how to turn clicks into conversions with John.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hey John, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're pumped to have you here.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: You've had a diverse career in e-commerce from working with Amazon agencies to holding multiple utility patents.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share a bit about your journey that led you to become a brand ambassador with Picfu?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks for having me on.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I love what you guys do, and this is definitely a great platform.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I got my start in e-commerce probably in 2007, which is a long time ago.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was working above a deli here in Staten Island for an automotive parts restyling company that they were primarily selling on their own website, but then got larger and larger and larger.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're the largest restyling website, I think, in the world.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and got my feet wet in Amazon, eBay, you know, dot com kind of stuff really, really early on.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that parlayed into uh an explosion, right?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then I went from doing that to working as an e-com business manager for a cell phone accessory place out of the city here in New York.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it just evolved from there.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then I went to go work for, you know, instead of reselling and doing Amazon, I went to go work at a manufacturer facility, um, selling directly as one P and 3P.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, I was like, okay, well, let me go and this was during the Daily Deal website boom.
• 3:46
  unknown: Wow.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all that kind of stuff.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So went to go work there as a buyer in the e-comm space in here in the city.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Networked with a million people, it was a monster, monster company.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that unfortunately went out of business, but the owner actually went on to go and create goalie, which is an apple cider vinegar gummy, that's a number one seller on Amazon, uh, friend of mine, so I can plug that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um then worked for more kind of uh, you know, manufacturers direct for betting and textiles and stuff like that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Took a little bit of a break um from the e-com space, went to go work uh on Rikers Island, uh here in New York City as a corrections officer.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, hey, everyone has a city job in New York City and everyone's a fireman, police officer, you know, I'll take whoever calls me first.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did about four years of that, realized four years.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, realized I don't want to be locked up in jail.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't do anything wrong.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um a good friend of mine uh that I worked at the daily deal space said, This is right around COVID, said, You want to work from home and make money?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, heck yes, I do.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was a full service uh Amazon agency and had a lot of experience already in Amazon and sales and talking and tactics.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um that part laid into going to work at another full service Amazon agency, which is my Amazon guy, which I stayed at for a handful of years, um, where we I think that's a very large agency in the space.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anyone knows them.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then from there I was doing a lot of uh focus on main image optimization, CTR, merchandising.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I found my inch wide mile deep.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, the guys at PicFu were like, Hey, we love everything you're talking about.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to come do that for a living full time?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, duh, yeah, absolutely.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how that's how I landed here, and I and I love it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing, and quite the journey, you know, from I mean, early days e-commerce for what you were doing, the daily deals and all that fun stuff, taking the break and then getting back to it and working at agencies, you learn a lot, you pick up a lot fast.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we know Steven has uh a large agency, so I'm sure you got a lot of experience there.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then what was it like when the PigFu guys picked you up?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Did they catch you just because you were active on LinkedIn or like how did uh how did you get in their radar?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think that LinkedIn is probably, if you're in the professional space, is the the biggest investment that you can do as a business.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're working for someone and you're not like yourself an owner, founder, operator, you should still triple down on it because that's how you're seen to other professionals, other businesses, other brands.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that I don't want to I don't want to say that's the only reason, but that's a big reason, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have a really decent LinkedIn following.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I believe in consistency on LinkedIn.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I talked to a lot of, I think we talked about this before too, you know, where it's like, how do you get more leads?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get more brand authority, you know, SME kind of stuff?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think daily posting on LinkedIn is the number one hack that you can do for your business to increase your reach, increase your offering, increase all that other kind of stuff.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, they looked at me and they said, wow, this guy talks about CTR, this guy talks about images and merchandising.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: People listen.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta we gotta talk to him.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when people do those kind of things and really double down on tools and platforms, you know, it might not be LinkedIn for certain certain crowds, it might be it might be Instagram if you're in more of the creators creative social media space.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, having that brand authority is key.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really sage advice.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: He nailed it too.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And John, I mean, I've uh you're on my radar, and I'm sure I'm on your radar because I do follow you on LinkedIn.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody's not following, the link will be in the show notes below.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you do great content, you're constantly sharing about split testing, updates to the platform.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So those of us in the space think of John and people like John as just great resources to help help us improve the services we deliver to to clients and brands and all that other fun stuff.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I'm trying to currently replicate that success with Twitter or X, you know, because I see a lot of other people doing it with more writing, because I found that on LinkedIn that you don't want to post more than once or twice a day.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're starting to cannibalize your own posts and your reach and your engagement.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I want something where I can post constantly, like when the thought comes into my head.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think something like X is good.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not big there yet.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm barely uh a small fish in a big pond.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm like a minnow or maybe even like a uh what's it called?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: The the um the the little tiny amoebas.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of that that kind of level right now.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: But look for me soon with that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, I I follow Alex Hermozzi and I'm a big fan of him.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he uses Twitter as like a thought spill.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with Cody Sanchez.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So uh you'll get there like anything else, consistency.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So let's jump in.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maximizing Amazon click-through rate, the art of hero image optimization.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um pumped.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: The first question I have for you how crucial is the main hero image for improving click-through rate on Amazon?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what are key elements of a successful hero image?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's only crucial if you like money.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not a big fan of money and you're running like a non-for-profit and just there just for the sake of being there, then it's not important.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: But in all seriousness, it is the most important thing because if you look at the journey of a purchase, it all starts with the click.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: So your product detail page, your bullet points, your A plus content, your price for that, you know, for your price for that matter, it's all secondary to the main hero image because when people visually see what you're offering, they're either compelled to click or they're not going to click.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you're uh if you're in the the gummy space for supplements, or if you're in the hair care space for you know, hairspray or creams or anything like that, it's not just you, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's you versus a sea of people.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to have uh that standout, that call out.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: For example, melatonin gummies.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Melaton and gummies is a sea of purple because color psychology, we understand purple, calming, relaxing, that's not to say you should come into the melatonin gummy space and be like a vibrant orange.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not gonna resonate very clearly with the demographics, that's more for energy, excitement, that kind of thing.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: But what other colors can resonate for relaxation and calming that isn't purple, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when we talk about best practices for a main hero image, showing just the bottle isn't good enough, it's not gonna cut it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I know what folks are thinking if they're listening is that well, Amazon tells me in the terms of service I can just have the image on a white background wrong because terms of service and image guidelines are two different things.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually putting a video up out about this now on LinkedIn.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Terms of service and image guidelines, they're different, so there's nothing in terms of service that says anything about images.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's image guidelines.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, image guidelines says you should put the product outside of the packaging and not include it if it doesn't have an added benefit.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're seeing a lot of times stay with me for the melatonin gummies is the bottle of melatonin gummies in front of a box or packaging for the melatonin gummies with the gummy next to it and the flavor profile next to it being shown.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's berry flavored, if it's citrus flavored, show a slice of orange, show some berries next to it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean raining down fruit all over the image in the background, that means we're splashing water everywhere, but that's very clearly going to show I love berries, I'm gonna click, or no, I don't like berries, I'm not gonna click, and that's okay, especially if it's an if it's a sponsored ad.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want people clicking with the unknown of what the flavor is, because if they click, like, oh, I want this, but then they land on the PDP after they clicked and like, oh wow, this is berry.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think berry's gross.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So those different elements you'd want to add to your main hero image and make them look as natural as possible.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just put don't use stylized cartoon images of berries.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, put realistic berries and tools like Canva have those baked in.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: When you go into elements, you want to put uh graphic photos, not graphics.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Photos are realistic berries, graphics are stylized cartoons and berries.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last thing I would say sticking on that berry example for supplements is where's the product made?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that's consumable for the most part, people love it when it's made in the US.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if it is made in the US, you'd want to put red, white, and blue, made in US, small icon on the bottle.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay now, this is a post-edit.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: You would ideally want to have that on your packaging overall, but I get it.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Some some creative designers out there and creative directors, they don't want to do that for aesthetics and that kind of thing.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But always red, white, and blue, always make it real clear.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't put made in US in your font or colors, and you know, people died for this country and this freedom.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like red, white, and blue is super important.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you could do that also with stuff that's made in Germany.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Germany is classified as you know, quality and stuff like that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if something's made in another country that's not really known for certain things, don't just put it up there for the sake of saying it was put up there.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good points.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen it too.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, if I'm buying a bottle of Windex, for example, it may say like 128 ounces that was a post edit, but it won't actually be there.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we work with supplement brands.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's a flavor of some type, you generally want to show the fruit or something like that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you made a really good point.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to advertising, you want to be as transparent and as relevant as possible because you want to make sure if somebody is interested and engaged, they're going to get to a product detail page that you know resonates with their search.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And just to dive a little deeper, what can you tell me about negative space?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if I'm putting these three images on there, should they be spread out?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Should they be gigantic?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you how do you effectively incorporate the right amount of negative, or how do you think of negative space uh when you're thinking of a hero image?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh obviously if you have a bottle of supplements, you want to get as large as possible, but keeping the aspect ratio of if you're adding packaging behind it, make sure that it's not covering the packaging totally because then the packaging has no relevance to it, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you you want to aesthetically look at everything high level, and once you start adding things in and expanding them out so they almost hit the limits of that pixel size for that said image.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't want to have a strawberry standalone here, then your bottle next to it, and then your packaging next to it in kind of like lined up kind of order.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's not really merchandising or compelling.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of things you can use for layers and overlapping.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in Canva, I typically send it backwards, and that's that's kind of their their little tag when you're looking to move layers is send it to the back, send it to the back.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So your your main product is always in the front and you're layering things behind it and sending it to the back.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: But to talk about the pixel space, you brought up a good point about like 128 ounces or whatever it is, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: As a post edit, think of dead pixel real estate space, is kind of what I call it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a canister of let's say protein powder, the the canister lid is typically dead pixel real estate space.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm talking about on the product itself, not floating in the ether.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: That'll get you an image suppression for sure.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But on the product itself, if you find, and we found this with tons of large multi-million, if not billion dollar companies that do this, guys like Proctor and Gamble do this every single day on Amazon, and not one person complains.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're putting the value prop that's not typically found on the label in that dead pixel real estate space.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can see uh proof in it by looking at the Amazon reviews, the photo reviews, and see how people actually get it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they're getting it and it's not on there, but still even five-star views because these are util utilitarian things.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a giftable thing, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you have if you're in a giftable category, don't render packaging behind that looks beautiful and or neat.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then they get it, and it's not like that because then you're gonna have a negative uh experience, then you're gonna have a negative review on your hands.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that you hit it on the head too.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: With uh, we've seen this where they uh I had a brand who put a badge on the top left corner completely separated from the product, and it led to a suppression, and it was because it violated the terms of service and something as simple as moving it onto the package where that dead space was uh is truly effective.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when we're talking about mistakes that brands made in my experience, I'd love to hear from you.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: What are common mistakes brands make when they it comes to their main hero image?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And how can they avoid these common pitfalls on their listings?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a good point.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So making a post edit that looks like a post edit is a huge mistake.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not working with a good graphic designer on your team or another company or an agency, in Canva, I always talk about drilling down the transparency of a post edit, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm putting text on the main hero image on the bottle on a cap, I'm not keeping it as 100% transparency, I'm drilling it down to about 80%.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: That fades it out a little bit to make it look a little bit more realistic.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we're a little we're not trying to trick people, but if it looks blatantly obvious that it's a post edit, people read between the lines, they can see that you're trying to pull one over on them, slap something in there.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to do that.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh another thing that I find a lot of mistakes that people make is not testing what works for your audience, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh understanding the data-driven decisions behind it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we're not talking about pick food right now, but it's important to know that if your ICP and your avatar is a man in his 30s to 50s that works out, maybe in your main hero image, you're not showing kids, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're not showing someone else that's not that avatar using the product because it's not going to resonate with them.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of folks fall into the ideals of take a water bottle, for example, like an insulated water bottle.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone drinks water and everyone, you know, needs to you know have something to put their water in.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not the case.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, everyone should be drinking water, not everyone drinks water, people just live on Red Bull.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that that's all they do.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: They historically won't drink water unless they're in the shower with their mouth open.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then drill down even further.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, everyone should drink water, but not everyone can afford a$65 water bottle.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to know who your avatar is and show them what they need to see in that image and drilling it down very, very specific.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because often a lot of people, especially I found with inventors and solopreneurs where they they're in their vacuum with their blinders on and they just see it in their heads and they don't realize, oh, wait a minute, I need to drill down further.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is you know, not everybody is an Apple.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And even Apple's not for everyone.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone can afford a computer that starts like a thousand bucks, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: But their marketing and their merchandising is geared towards their avatar.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: One more question about the hero image.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do any optimization for mobile?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: We know specifically on Amazon.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think at you know, the most recent date I heard like 60% of people access and shop through Amazon through their mobile device.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any considerations for uh mobile when it comes to your hero image?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, it's all kind of the same because Amazon uh does responsive design when it in its back end?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and no.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: The elements and everything you're putting together should be cohesive and the same, whether it's desktop or mobile.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: But if you take a I'm I'm in that 60% or whatever the number is, I shop exclusively on my phone.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at my computer eight to ten hours a day.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: You would think I'd shop on a computer, you know, an ICP or an avatar like my wife, she didn't even own a computer.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: She everything she does is on her iPhone, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think all the elements should be the same, but understanding uh peeling back for a little bit and resting back and taking a look and uh looking at your actual um main hero image from your phone, not the computer that you're getting proofs or working with an agency on, and seeing, okay, when it's a lot smaller, can I still read the text in the dead pixel real estate space?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it still resonating?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because we found with clients uh with what we do with PicFu is they're like, okay, John, we did this, we did this, we did everything you talk about, but they're cramming it all in a size small font where it looks good on a desktop, but it falls to the wayside on mobile.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you might as well have nothing there because if they can't read it, it's like when you go to the eye doctor, and it's the the you know, the eye exam where you're looking at the chart from across the room and got to cover your eye, it it reads as if the bottom line, and you have a vision of like a falcon or something like that, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And most don't.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to make sure that it's super, super clear, even on mobile.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because if it's not, you might as well have nothing there.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, too, if if majority of the shoppers are access guilty, maybe it's a millennial thing and younger, uh, but I I because I'm on my computer all day, same thing.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't read it on mobile, why even take the risk too of you know something being afoot and misleading shoppers?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Super helpful.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked a lot about hero images before I jump on to like testing and stuff.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything to add?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Anything I might have not asked when it comes to the perfect optimized hero image.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I think a lot of people need to triple down on the hero image because if there's shoppers out there like me, where I'm just shopping on the main image, I'm looking at the image, then I'm looking at the title to confirm what I'm looking at, then I'm looking at the price, and then that's it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of folks in the agency space, creative space, uh the the PDP below the fold is super important, premium A plus content, all that kind of good stuff.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: The journey really starts at that image and then the title and the price, and it sometimes ends there with consumers like me.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of folks will pay so much attention to their premium A, so much attention to their brand story module, but their main hero image.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is like the the kid that got left behind on the school trip.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like we want to make sure that that is your biggest, biggest focus because the journey starts there for pretty much all shoppers.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you nailed it too.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: When we talk to brands that we work with, like we look at click-through rate and when we look at conversion rate.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when we're looking at click-through rate, to your point, it's the title, it's the main image, and it's the elasticity around the pricing.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really like the levers you can pull in order to improve your click-through rate.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sage, sage advice.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have we have a hero image, we have a hypothesis on what we think will resonate with our customers and our shopping base.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: What are the next steps?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like what how do I test my theory?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do I just upload it and go to improve sales, or are there other ways and techniques that I can split test this to see if this is the best image for my brand and if I should move forward and roll it out to other products of my catalog, for example?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you do three things.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can either A wing it and pray for the best and don't test anything.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: B, you could stick with Manager Experiments, which is Amazon's internal split testing tool.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with that option, you may or may not be approved to do it because you have to have a certain amount of traffic and traction on the ASINs to even allow for a manager experiment.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So some folks, if they're just getting started, you can't do that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you have an ASIN that stinks and is in the toilet, you can't do it on Amazon because you don't have the traffic.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, C is my favorite option, obviously, is you know, testing with a tool like PicFu.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because with PicFu, you can drill down to your specific consumer ICP avatar through 90 plus different traits and test in front of them, which is testing before you're investing.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's multiple different polls options you can run.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have things like head-to-head, which is the traditional one that most folks know, A or B, this or that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whether you're testing your old image versus your new iteration, whether you're testing your old image versus your competitor.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: If it's three competitors, you can do a rank poll where you're putting you against three other competitors, and people are picking which one they like first, which one they like second, which one they like third.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think my favorite out of all of them is the click test.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And historically the click test has been, you know, upload a packaging.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where in the packaging do you resonate with with multiple clicks?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: What I found to be really interesting is I upload a screenshot of the Amazon SERP, which is a search engine result page.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I'll do is I'll drill down to my specific avatar ICP, if that's a man in his 30s to 50s that has two kids, that you know has an income of 100k or more, whatever it is specifically that I'm looking to get in front of.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll say, based on this Amazon search page, where would be the first place you would click if you're looking for creatine gummies or melatonin gummies?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm in there, or my my ASIN's in there, peppered in with other ASINs, peppered in with sponsored ASINs, peppered in with brand ads at the top, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's multiple different ways you're able to see how you stand out from the what the consumer is looking at when they pull up that search phrase.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think out of all my favorite ones, it's probably click test because that gives you the power to see multiple things.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: A, who is my competitor?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: You might think you know who your competitor is, but if your avatar is clicking on someone else, oh wait a minute, that's my competitor, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because more people are resonating with that.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: But they're giving the reasons why they're clicking, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're giving the reason and you see a heat map.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're clicking on packaging and you don't have packaging, well, clearly that's resonating with them.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's another great tool, also, because let's say you have you're already selling on Amazon and you want to do another color variation, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you see that the other competitors have other colors out there.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what if your customer is not clicking on the reds and blues and you have the black one, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Then you might not want to triple down on a cut another color.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you want to go for another iteration, another style, another version, 1.0, 2.0, something like that with your problem.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, manage my experiments has its values, but to your there are some limitations.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, in all transparency, Belavix is a pickfu agency and we're big fans of your software because of the data and all that extra you get.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that being said, you brought up a lot of really good points.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to dive a little deeper.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you consider a good survey size when you're doing like your packaging testing and and all that other fun stuff?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how much is enough for me to make an educated decision before I move forward actually implementing a change?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not about size, but about frequency.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I always tell people don't do one poll at a hundred people for respondents, do multiple polls at less.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So ideally, if we're looking to change the cadence, if we're the cadence would look like if we're looking to change the main hero image, running a click test right on the SERP as test one at around 30 to 50 respondents.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then we have the data from the click test that we can say, okay, here is my competitor that that more people are clicking on.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then I would do a head-to-head at around you know 30 to 50 respondents for you versus your original image versus your competitor.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're having a lot more data between those two tests.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to your designer, you can go to something like Canva, design up an iteration based on the data of what you think works best.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Then you're doing a head-to-head test against your old image versus your new image.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now that you've taken the data-driven decisions to optimize it, then if that one wins, you go back to the you know the the click test and you know digitally add in your newer one, which is simple in Canva or Photoshop, into the SERP.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're getting more clicks, if you're now the winner of that SERP test, you have confidence and then rolling it out on Amazon or even on a manager experiments.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And confidence is key.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Being able to go and you know, 30 to 50 testers, if you will, it's not a huge uh audience size, and it's not going to be crazy expensive to run that types of tests, especially if those 30 to 50 people are, you know, in this case, uh 30 years old to 50 with two kids, yada, yada, yada.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's your demographic, it's your audience, and you know, am I resonating?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's like a piece that's missing from management experiments because it's just straight split testing.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and it can be affected by my season melody, it can be affected by, you know, a competitor listing being on a stock.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's lots of things you can't account for that can lead to false positives, which may lead you to double them.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm a big fan of and what I like about PicVoo is the ability to like really drill them into the audience that you want to attract.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then you brought up some really good points that I'm I'm unaware of, but my team does this a lot more.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: How you can use, you know, like a SERP test to get into a head-to-head, and then you can take that information and you know figure out how I can improve my main image and then kind of rinse and repeat until you get something that that shows value and that shows it's gonna make uh a difference, especially graphics and all that other everything that comes with that can be expensive, it can be tedious.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, like for myself, uh I don't have an eye for it.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we have graphic designers on staff.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think things look great, and then I'll give it to a graphic designer and they'll be like, oh, this, that's garbage, not send no synergy, yada, yada, yada.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh man.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I you're 100% right.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I think that when we come when it comes down to pricing, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are a little like, oh, do I want to test this one image multiple times and spend a couple hundred dollars on the polls to get to get the image right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's more painful?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Two or three hundred dollars of polls to make sure you got it right, or ten to fifteen thousand dollars of ad spend just kind of running with what you have to learn the hard way.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's all really relative.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and when you kind of look at that from the the whole big picture, it it's it's not that big of an expense at all.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually money well spent.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: 100% agree.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we have some case studies on the site that show improvements to your main image and even your title can lead to you know massive growth on an account of done really right and effectively.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, do you have any you know case studies, shoutouts?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give me an example of when this went really well for a brand you might have worked with in the past?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing with PicFu.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a lot of big brands use PicFu, but they they list it as private on our on our polls, right?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we have an option for public or private.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: So not a lot that I can really talk about.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't actually have the Amazon data.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're working on getting some more kind of internal case studies with partners to actually show, you know, I I don't want to say, yes, here's some numbers and stuff like that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: If I can't give you tangible kind of things to data-driven to back it up, but look for that in the future because we're going to be working with a lot of big big name brand partners that are actually giving us a you know under the hood kind of peek at how that's actually affected their CTR and percentages.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I can tell you numbers alone, you know, when someone does polls on Picfu, they're they're and they do the proper cadence of testing to see where they are, then the head to head, then using the data.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: We see 200 to 300 percent increase of voting, you know, for in favor of the brand after they do that, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a it's a monster number, but again, it's really kind of uh tapping into people to let them make them more self-aware about how important the main hero image is.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And pickfu, you could test everything, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: You test your logo, you test your packaging, test your A plus content, test your brand story module.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a lot of people leave the main hero image in the dust a little bit.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um like I said, that's the most important thing you could be doing.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then no, we've been talking a lot about PicFu.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive in.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are some uh you mentioned some features, but what are some other valuable features that maybe you didn't measure mentioned that brands could leverage in order to prove you know either their hero image or their listing in general on Amazon?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you can A B test or you know, PigFoo test, whatever you want to call it, every aspect of your page, um, down to your packaging, down to your A plus content, your brand story module, your your brand ads.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of folks don't realize that they think it's just their physical PDP and page, but it's also your ads.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So is this brand ad resonating versus you know this other brand ad?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is my sponsor display ad resonating on my competitors PDP enough for you to actually go and click on it?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the click test is the most powerful thing you could use, and it's very, very universal where you can do SERP screenshots, PvP screenshots, and seeing where people are actually clicking on a heat map.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, an interesting thing is too that we're noticing with a lot of people using PicFu is um for sourcing.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a new Amazon seller, right, and you're you're just getting into it, you don't have a PvP, you don't have any of this kind of stuff just yet.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're just getting into it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't it be great if you could test before you invest in that 20-foot container from China of whatever widget you're looking to get?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, PicFu, you're able to do that through like a rank poll or even like a click test.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to your manufacturer's catalog, and if you're in between 20 different styles of bathing suits, you can load that into PicFu in a in a in a click test and say, Hey, if you're a woman between 20 and 40 with an income of this, which style of bathing suits do you like?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that information will lead you to better decisions for sourcing because a lot of people, that's one of the big things that they get stuck on is I don't know what to source.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what kind of I know I want to do this, but I don't know which one.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gambling a lot, and they're just kind of going with the Helium 10, the Jungle Scout, the Data Dab, the Smart Scout, the list of tools.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have to name them all so that no one gets upset.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, just on that data, they're looking at it and saying, okay, swimsuit does well, bikini does better, bikini with uh a wrap around it does even better.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: But visually, which one is gonna work?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, you know the data, you know you've narrowed it down to which area you're gonna focus in on, but those data-driven tools aren't giving you the consumer insights that you need on color, pattern, size, style, all that kind of stuff.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to use both of those hand in hand to then say, okay, you're drilling down on these tools to understand which niche you want to go into.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but using a tool like PicFu to understand, great, I want to get into the bikini with a wrap around it business.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: But my manufacturer has 17,000 uh offering.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you wouldn't want to load 17,000 in PicFu, but you want to look at your landed costs, which are they most aggressive with, which do they have the most in stock, which are they giving you the best deal on, and then taking those options and putting it in a click test and saying, hey, which one do you like better?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And not ask and making sure your ICP is drilled down specifically.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've asked me which one I like better.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not buying a bikini with a wrap around.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, maybe some people are, but not me.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I might just click on it and say, I like this one.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's giving you bad data because I'm not the ICP and I'm not the shopper.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you really want to make sure that you're getting your questions and your polls in front of the people that are making those decisions.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I had no one, you know, sourcing.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many ways you can use it, but sourcing's brilliant too, especially before you invest, uh being able to kind of test out that premise before diving deep.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: And on the advertising side, too, we invest a lot in like streaming TV commercials.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to split test a couple versions before you're putting them on Prime Video or in some of the other outlets is really a great resource.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that really resonates from something outside of the listing, but still drives growth and innovation within the space.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: John, this has been super helpful.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Before I jump into the future of e-commerce, which is a topic we love to talk about.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have anything to add?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anything I might have missed that you'd like to tell the audience?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, PicFu, we we recently launched a new kind of initiative, which is called Pick Food Done For You, DFY, where if there's folks out there, brands, sellers, creators, anything like that, where you don't have time and you don't have access to resources like graphic designers, we could do it all for you.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we have an in-house creative design team, we have in-house polling team, where if you want a main hero image, but you don't want to run the pick food polls, you don't want to do the creative iterations, we do it all for you.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that comes down to the main hero image, A content, uh brand story module, all that kind of cool stuff.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if you're low on time and you don't have the resources, uh and it has to do with creative, it could be anything, right?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: It could be you're looking to launch a logo uh for a business and you're like, I don't have time to test it.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta focus on the financials, but I need it done.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we could do it for you.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So done for you is a big thing that PicFu is doing right now.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we have loads of people in the e-comm space and branching out to other venues as well, but in the e-comm space that are you're gobbling it all up, even repeat customers coming back because they've had such great success after testing um our version that we've done tests on, you know, three to four, sometimes five or six PicFu tests are being done, all while the customer and the client are able to focus on other aspects of their business.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, done for you is probably one of the biggest things in PicFu in a very long time.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is pretty neat and what an innovation.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And my business coach says this a lot it's your time or your money.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to pick one.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it sounds like you guys kind of offer both, which is amazing.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what we have now is the future of e-commerce.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, John, I'm actually pull out your crystal ball and uh predict the near future if you can.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so based on your extensive experience in e-commerce and Amazon strategy, how do you see the role of visual merchandising evolving over the next year or two?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, with AI being the hot topic on everyone, it doesn't matter what channel, what market, what business you're in, there's AI has infiltrated there in some way or fashion.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: So AI is coming a long way, has come a long way very rapidly.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: So much so that when we talk about optimizing your main hero image and putting the keyword in the packaging, in the edit, in the post edit, very in a very, very short period of time.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: This can already be done outside of Amazon, where if you load an image into Chat GPT or load an image in perplexity, it can tell you, it can read the image and tell you what's written on the image.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's only a matter of time before Amazon's algorithm starts to weigh in on what's written on your image as part of SEO.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: That is not an if, that is a when.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: The technology is there and it's going to be coming very, very soon if it's not there already and we just don't know about it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that is the biggest thing.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to make sure that all your main hero images are buttoned up, they say what they are, they make it very clear.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't use wacky fonts because people will not be able to read those.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then if generative AI starts to have its say and it has a problem reading it, um, then it's not going to get ranked organically when that time does come.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I really, really truly think with the advance of AI, that images right now images can be read for SEO, but as alt text.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So basically it's it's a real hacky, and some people say it's not best practice because alt text is technically there for people that have visual impairments to read to them on the screen what they're looking at.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel really bad for someone that has a problem like that and they go on Amazon because they're probably hit with like so much stuff and just like computers and listing off all this random things.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, what am I looking at?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: But people have kind of uh exploited that a little bit for organic SEO.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's really going to be flipped to the front facing where uh Amazon and other sites and stuff like that are gonna be able to start reading what's on the image and ranking that for SEO.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is some sage advice too.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's already kind of here.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: I follow Amazon Science and Kevin King talked a bit about it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot the name of it, but the technology is already there that scans the image for uh keywords, and what they're saying is like semantic text, then the title is gonna matter less, and it's gonna be about the image and then the quality of the product.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I can't think of the acronym, you know, Amazon and the technology.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's Rufus and Cosmo that's kind of Cosmo is it?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how it's like trying to think what it was, but it's already kind of here.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I know about all this kind of stuff.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So so you know, Rufus is the front-facing kind of AI tool for people to search on Amazon and give a better experience.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've made videos where I kind of broke cut uh broke Rufus where you could almost prompt it to say what you want it to say, and there's ways you can a little gray hat, maybe a little bit of darker black hat, but uh people are saying you could even in your back-end description um put prompts inside there that guide Rufus in one way or another.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, Cosmo is there and is able to, but we don't it's the technology is there, it's technology we talked about.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know if it's deployed right now.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know, we don't know a lot, right?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And usually when we don't know things, that means they're working on it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when we when we get told it from Amazon, that means it's already been in place for probably uh six months prior.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now that the e-com world is changing, and that's what keeps it so interesting and exciting.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, thank you, John, for sharing your valuable insights and your expertise with us today.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure having you on the show.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Before we wrap up, could you let our listen know listeners know where they can find you?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have anything else to share about PicFu or any upcoming projects you're working on.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so pickfu.com, p-i-c-k-f-u.com.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I live in New York and I get a lot of flack.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: They say, what does that mean?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: And think it's something like uh, you know, bad.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, no, no, it's my company.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, like typical New Yorkers always trying to find a way to make something weird, but pickfu.com, uh, John Aspinall uh is my name, and um very big on LinkedIn.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're on LinkedIn, which everyone listening to this should be tripling down on their LinkedIn, it is the best platform for business owners and brands and sellers and all that kind of stuff.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: I post daily content on there.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we do have a PicFu uh live stream podcast that we do every week on Thursdays at noon on YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn, where I'm on and I talk to people about news and stuff, and we break down live polls and all that kind of good stuff.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then the the DFY done for you is right on our homepage.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't tell you this prior to us going uh you know, recording on this.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone listening to this, if you're having used PicFood before and you you want to try it because it sounds interesting, just shoot me uh uh a LinkedIn request and a DM or whatever it is, whatever they're called.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: The kids are calling on LinkedIn.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to give anyone listening to this uh$100 free credit to PicFood to get you guys rocking and rolling with some PitFoods.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: The audience is gonna appreciate that.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And John, it's been great having you on the show.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for being a part of this journey.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll speak soon.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: That brings us to the end of another insightful episode of Selling on Giants.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: A big thank you to John Espinall for sharing his deep knowledge on optimizing hero images to boost Amazon click-through rates.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: His practical tips and strategies are sure to help make data-driven decisions that elevate your e-commerce game.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you found value in today's discussion, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you're tuning in.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're here to equip you with the tools and insights you need to succeed in the competitive world of e commerce.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep pushing those boundaries, keep innovating, and remember every click counts on your journey to success.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.