Latest / RunThrough Trails / #Ep44 - David Kilgore: 7 Marathons on 7 Continents

Transcript

#Ep44 - David Kilgore: 7 Marathons on 7 Continents · RunThrough Trails

• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, welcome back for another episode of the Run Through Trails Podcast.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're back again with another special guest.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: This week we've got David Kilgar on the pod.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Dave.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, James?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going, man?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm doing great, honestly.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm out here in Miami, down in South Florida, and um, yeah, excited for this up and coming year.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like things are about to gear up and I'm about to be on the road again.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, pretty pumped about that, but uh enjoying some warm weather in the in the time being.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, yeah, yeah, can't complain.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for those of you that have heard of David, obviously you will know quite a lot about what he's been up to over the last few years.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for those of you that haven't, um David's a Red Bull athlete, trial-running athlete, obviously been involved with a load of different brands through the years, um, spent some time at on doing some stuff on the on the other side of the desk as well.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: But probably, I don't know, best known, best known for what?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Best known for probably the the Seven Marathon, Seven Continents.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say uh the crowning achievements.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely the crowning achievements, and um, and if it's like some other stage racing, I think is uh definitely like up there.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, awesome.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we're gonna have a little chat through some of your history, how you got into the sport, and definitely touch on on what that experience was like and then get into kind of some more recent and upcoming projects.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um one of the things we always start with, David, with every guest, is asking how you got into the sport, how you found running.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like what was your first ever race?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: How did you even learn that trial running was a thing?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so specifically, so when I was uh I really got I would say lucky in the sense uh I was always like a very like outdoorsy, like sporty, sporty child.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Florida, about two and a half hours uh from Miami on the east coast in a place called Palm Bay, Florida.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't have this shirt on right now, I have Pombay tattooed on my arms and I'd show you.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so always rep in the hometown.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um when I when I was a kid, whenever whenever I would go visit my father, uh he uh he was working out a lot in the gym.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he got really like swole, he got beefed up, and he's like, you know what?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I want to start doing some cardio.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want to try to like cut down a little bit and start this running thing.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, being a little kid, I wanted to do you know what my dad was doing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I would go see him, I would always be like, hey, like let me go run with you, let me do it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And at first he was like, hey, I don't know if like this is like good for like a young kid or not, um, because he was like unfamiliar with the sport and it seemed like a lot on his body, uh, even though he was only running a couple miles at the time.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically eventually let me come running with him.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was like, Oh my god, he's like, You're like a very in-shaped little kid.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's like, you should probably do this.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I was like bouncing around like on the route that we were doing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And basically after that, I uh uh I was running at a treadmill uh one day visiting my dad again when he was working out in the gym.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: This lady who was probably in her mid-40s at the time, whose name was Jackie Clifton, noticed me running out of treadmill, approached me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was like a young little kid, like 10 or 11 years old, and uh very shy and nervous.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And basically, she talked to me for a moment.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: I introduced her to my dad, and that linked me to uh go to the high school that I went to, which was Holy Trinity Episcopal Academy.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I met my uh cross-country and track and field coach whose name was Doug Butler.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe still to this day, uh he has the most like he's the most like winningest uh cross-country coach in Florida state history.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um the most like state championships and those things, most accolades as a coach.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like that was just like one, it got me into like a really nice uh school, and then two, um, it really just helped my career take off because I was around Coach Butler, um, who is like so knowledgeable about the sport.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I basically ran like well in cross-country and track and field, went off to university and uh did did all right at university.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of when I was there, I never I always I always grew up running trails and finding different routes with some of my other friends uh in my part of town.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I never knew trail trail running was a thing.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I've joked around over the years.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that I never knew that there were short distance trail races as well.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I just jumped into ultra races and uh and so I started doing ultra running because I just like loved the outdoors.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I found found a love for it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: One of the first races I did was the Chattanooga Stage Race, and it's a three-day stage race uh in the Tennessee Mountains um in Chattanooga.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of after that, man, it just like opened the door for me and I just fell in love with the sport and have been doing it ever since.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Bit of foreshadowing there as well.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely like the kind of big expedition style races, like multi-day stage races, kind of bit of adventure travel mixed with a bit of kind of craziness folded into like the athletic side of the sport seems to be something that appeals yeah, pretty strongly to you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's like your kind of your niche.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really does, man.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like over over the years, I've I mean, that's definitely kind of my personality type too.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried so many different things, all the different types of races, and kind of molded into to yeah, I found that like doing more of this like multi-stage uh adventure type races are definitely what I most enjoy, even though I I like to play around and and jump, jump from place to place still a little bit in the distances that I do, the races that I do.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of like my sweet spot that I that I love so much.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what what type of terrain did you have access to back home then when you were kind of when you started out running on trails, or even when you were at university?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well did you have technical stuff?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have a lot of elevation?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Was it what was the terrain like?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, yeah, man.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh most of the the trails that I did growing up, uh I would say a little bit like technical, but it's like soft like sugar sand down in Florida.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like proper Florida trails.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: But they're like pretty rooty, uh pretty like I don't know, raw at times.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've I would say the technicalities there, a lot of them are wet too.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you like cross like different like water crossings and things like that uh in Florida, but really the elevation and altitude were were pretty challenging for me for for quite I mean still kind of kind of is just like where I live.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like once I go on the road quite quite a bit during the summer, it definitely by towards the back end of summer, it things get like a little bit easier, of course, just like running mountains all all summer long.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I feel like whenever I I leave Florida like for the first initial like race or two, I'm always like whew, like I could get that done, but uh that's that's spicy, spicy without it.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Shock for the legs, yeah, yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: What was that first experience?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first proper not mountain race necessarily, but like first proper trail race that had a significant amount of elevation where you're doing like a big whatever, like 3,000 foot climb in one hit or whatever.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: What was the first time you experienced that?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I'm trying to think.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, actually, the the first race that I did that had something like that was uh the Georgia Death Race.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it's I think 74-ish miles um down in the Georgia Mountains, but their claim to fame is just like how much elevation that you go up and down for being in like the southern United States.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it absolutely just like beat me to hell, to be honest.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I just got so beaten up uh from that race, and it really it really gave me a new appreciation for for the sport and one the elevation and then also just the distance in general, because I was like, I am this is the farthest I've ever gone, and I am out here for I don't know, I was out there for 12 plus hours, you know.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was the longest race you've done, but also the most elevation as well.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you just kind of dove dove straight in.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I dove straight in.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was right after, so it was probably a year after I did Chattanooga, and that was in I think 20 2016 now, I think I did the Georgia Death race, 2015 or 2016.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you yeah, so you'd only really been properly trail running or taking part in races for like a year at that point.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what was you what was your first like breakout performance, would you say, where you kind of took part in a in a race with a proper field um and competed well and thought, oh actually I could sort of you know properly compete in this book?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, man.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I uh so I bounced around to try like a few different of the the distances, of course, like right when I started.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I went out to to Black Canyon initially and uh I just got nap out there as well.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, oh my god.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I'm trying to think.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I uh when the the next time that I I really like put in a uh a solid up because I I had like a little bit of like a break where for about a year, year and a half, I kind of just like took a little bit of a sidestep.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was still like running a bit myself, but I wasn't like really training that much.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say probably like the first, I guess the first main one with a with a really solid field was um the Formidable 50K, probably.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was either that one or uh up in New Hampshire, there was uh I think it was uh in Sunopee.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And both of those were like the USA uh TF 50K championships, and I got uh um I think I got second or third at one and then four third or fourth at the other one.
• 9:34
  unknown: Okay.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I feel like that put me a little bit more more on the map, and then leading, like kind of like leading off of that, I I went to to worlds with the USA team.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I feel like um I started like falling a little bit more into my own, and I got eighth at Leadville 100 um in 2021 or 2022, I think.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, cool, nice.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And how how long have you been with Red Bull for?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: When when did that when did that all kick off in terms of yeah, so that all kicked off around 2021?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, around that time, yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so exactly.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So really, I guess I would say I think I guess my my situation is like yeah, I feel like I just have like a breadth of like what I was doing, and that's how like Red Bull first approached me.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is again, I was doing like these like big like trail and ultra races.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was also doing these, there's a lot of like I mean, before I feel like it's a lot more popular now, but yeah, I feel like it was born in New York City, the unsanctioned like late night races.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was doing a lot of like take the bridge, Orchestra Street Runners, where we'd all meet up some point in the city, everybody paid like some type of fee.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You would race to some other place without like a certain look, like without a certain route or a designated route, and then whoever got there first would win some money, and then everybody would go out and party or like have have breakfast or whatever we would do afterwards.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like I was doing a lot of trail running, a lot of like sanctioned road races in New York City and and other places, fast marathoning, these unsanctioned races.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, a little a little bit of everything.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh they approached me to see if I could run the Wings for Life World Run, uh, which is their big, like charitable foundation uh that they get back to every year, which is it's really awesome.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't heard for of the Wings for Life World Run, it's it's epic.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the world's largest race.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody around the world uh competes at the exact same time, and all the proceeds go back to spinal cord injury research.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, hey Kilgore, like you're very connected to to all the community and to all the run clubs, and you're bouncing around to all these different like scopes of running all of the time.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can you one like help us like talk about the race, help us get more signups, bring more awareness to this awesome cause?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And also, um uh can you go and try to like break like the fastest record in the for North America?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I made this like really like sick route from uh the top of the Bronx all the way out to Long Island.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, like the content and just how fun it was in general, too.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like blasting through the middle of Manhattan through like people and cars, and um, when I was like racing in the middle of this thing, it was it was pretty pretty dang sweet.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, amazing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: How how did all the like unsanctioned races kick off in the first place?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did that even become a thing?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's kind of a bit of like an under-the-radar.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's kind of a trendy thing now that you see a lot of it on Instagram and you could, I don't know, find out about how you can take part and stuff.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But when it first started out in New York when you were taking part, were you organizing any of that at all?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you just going along taking part?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear about it through friends?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did that even start?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I heard about it through friends.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when I first moved to New York City, I was uh I was kind of in the middle of taking my my running break, I guess, and then started to pick pick running back up a little bit.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh someone was like, hey, you should really check out these races, it's really cool.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: There was a race in New York City by Orchard Street Runner, it's called the the Midnight Half.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, awesome.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I went out there to try to try to go to it, and I thought you could just show up at the race, but you still had to sign up.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I was also like super late because I was pressed to New York City and took like the wrong subway and all the things.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I get there and uh I was like, hey, where's like the race?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like two minutes behind.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, they just started, they're like running across the bridge, and I could see some of the runners running across the bridge.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I took off like as fast as I could, caught up to some of the runners.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like kind of like jumping from group to group um as I could see runners, and I honestly I didn't have a bib, they just thought like I did, I guess.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, yeah, I was like, okay, this is like sick.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like doing this, and I was like jumping from checkpoint to checkpoint, and then I got to a point probably like 15k into the race, and it was uh supposed to be around a half marathon.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I couldn't, I like jumped from one group to the next.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I could see a group ahead of me, and I was going, and then the group turned somewhere, or the couple people that I could see, and then I like I turned around, nobody was behind me.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: I looked at nobody was in front of me, and I was like 15k into this race, and I was like, I don't have the checkpoints, and I don't have a race number, and I'm in the middle of Brooklyn right now, and so I was like, I guess I'm my race is done.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went back to the went back to the HQ um where I knew like the race was gonna finish at, and uh just started like talking to everybody kind of about my experience and like hanging out with like some of the runners, and then got more into that scene after that where they were like, Hey, dude, yeah, you actually do have to sign up.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And which is ironic when it's that the whole thing is unsanctioned, but yeah, it kind of makes sense, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, cool.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it's interesting.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, yeah, stuff like that's just it's it's cool, all the different things that pop up, and like with especially with the enormous like run club culture now and all the brands being involved, and so many people looking to kind of do different unique uh styles of events, like it's something we pay quite a lot of attention to as event organizers.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's just yeah, it's kind of interesting.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it ties in a little bit with obviously the speed project, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's very similar type of ethos in the sense of go from point to point and well, I guess it's a bit different because there's a bit of a route in this race that we were just talking about.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: But with the speed project, the obviously the way they do it for people listening, we've had a couple of people on the podcast who have done it before.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um essentially get from LA to Vegas by any means necessary, whichever way you want to go, plan your route, run on the road, run the trails, do whatever, um, just get there as quick as you can.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that same kind of vibe where like something about that type of event is just very appealing to people and the content that comes out of it and the the crazy stories that come out of it, because it is just so like raw, I suppose, and loose.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what was that experience like and how did you first get involved?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So after after I started getting more involved in some uh some of this like the unsanctioned racing world, um I actually got pulled in in tw 2018 by Track Smith.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they were putting together a speed project team, and they were like, hey, uh, do you want to like come out and be a part of this relay?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna try to go for this record.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I heard loosely about the speed project, probably like over the the prior year after getting more into like this like unsanctioned racing world.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm totally down.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: This like seems absolutely epic.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh count me in.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I go out there right when the race starts and uh meet the team for the first time.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we had like I think like one one discussion and stuff like online before that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, like uh we we go off, take off like a bunch of fast marathoners in the group.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so before I feel like in 2018 and prior, um, or like 2019 prior, the they give you pretty much like a like a booklet with like the almost like a laid out like race course, pretty much, where they're like, hey, okay, right.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like I mean you can go like any which way you want, but they're like, hey, here's like a book.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is like the OG route.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the route that they took when they initially did it, which was like a bunch of friends like Nils and all those guys.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're like, hey, we just want to go on this like epic like adventure, like road trip situation from LA to Vegas.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they that was like their OG route.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So they put together like a pamphlet.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, hey, if you don't want to go on your own route, you can take our route that we initially took from LA to Vegas.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so everybody before that was kind of just following along with the booklet with the OG route.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And during this year, um our team just kind of like was like really like pushing the limits, and we kept like losing runners um on the team.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the runners who's a really good runner, great writer, his name is Peter Bromka.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he ended up getting like like bad like heat exhaustion or something, and like pretty pretty close to the beginning, and uh um pretty much like stayed in the the back of the RV for the majority of the race and was just like super sick.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we get to Death Valley and we're going like head to head with the this uh French team called the Sun Chasers.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it's honestly dude, it was like so epic.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're like in the middle of Death Valley.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're both like both teams are running like 400 meter repeats with like 90 miles.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that you you were breaking it up that much?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: You were running like half a K.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because uh because basically we were running like longer segments, the tracksmith team or my team, and uh and then the Sun Chasers had this really great like like method where they were having like three runners at a time, like and they were switching off like on a bike, or two runners at a time and they were switching off on a bike, and um and they were just like splitting it into like really fast segments, and it seemed like it saved them a lot.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh where we were out there for like 10k plus on most of the legs that we were doing, and we were just like falling apart, honestly.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: As a team, we were all just like dying.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so we saw them come up and we're just like trying to race them now.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they ended up uh they ended up getting us.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that being said, uh we both, yeah, we both ran the fastest times in history that year.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now I mean the times are like crazy, crazy fast.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh, but then Peter Bromka, uh, he got really sick, and then in 2019, he came back.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel like with a vengeance.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so prior, prior to this, or from like what it seemed like, everybody was following the more of the OG route, and Peter went out and scouted in the desert for a handful of like weeks or something, and he found like this like the power line route that a lot of people take now that cut off like 40 miles off the course, and you have to have like a four by four vehicle, and it's it's pretty crazy.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they did it in 2019 um with uh the team that Peter was on, then I think it was Blue Ribbon Sports, and they just absolutely like blew up the blew up the record, but then also kind of like blew up the race in all the best ways.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because then I feel like after that, everybody was like, Oh my gosh, we're gonna find our own route.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's kind of like a little bit of the the sauce that they wanted before, and I think that really like helped lead it to that, which is really cool.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, amazing, cool.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's such a crazy race, like the different tactics people have.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't think running 400 meter and jumping in in and out of like a minibus or whatever would make sense, but I suppose, yeah, maybe it maybe it does.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um awesome.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, obviously, we touched on it at the very start of the conversation, but the the great world race was obviously an enormous, enormous achievement winning that, and that's more more recent history, I suppose, for you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um kind of I suppose you could call it a multi-day stage race in its own way, just in a kind of a crazy way.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how did you end up finding yourself towed in the start line of that?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, what was that experience like?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it's uh it's been so incredible like over the years.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I feel like just watching other people do like insane things like in the sport and the world, uh, it just you know, it leads to the next person doing that too, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so one of my friends on the east coast of the United States, uh Mike Wardian, uh, I saw him do this race back in like I think 2018 or 2017 or something.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it was always definitely like high on my list where I was like, man, that looked just like so insane.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I really want to try that out someday.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily, I you know, I got that opportunity and I've gotten to do it three times now.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, so kind of like the first time that I did it, I was like going into it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was so excited.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I kind of started to like by that time too.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, I mean, it was three years ago the first time I did it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, so by that time I kind of knew a little bit, I mean, more about my myself, like my athletic capabilities, like what am I a little bit better at?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like great at recovering, I'm great at multi stage races.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also like it's it feeds a little bit more into my personality too, because I like I'm like Very communal.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love hanging out with people.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes, like putting me like in a hundred mile, like fully remote race, like five hours will go by and I'm like, okay, like I want like a running buddy.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: This would be great if I could uh I could hang out with somebody.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like stage racing kind of like plays all into that with me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a really great setup.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, going into the race, I was I was super pumped up.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like so grateful for the opportunity and and just like so stoked.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when I got there, you we always have like a pre-race meeting in uh not in Antarctica in South Africa.
• 22:35
  unknown: Okay.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh everybody meets up in Cape Town, and then so pretty much are there like three or four days in advance, and then you wait for a good weather window.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's usually like within a day or two of when you start the event.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And because the you as you can imagine, the weather in Antarctica is like so volatile, it just like changes like like on it on the spot, and they're talking to us, like, hey, you know what?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like the weather down in Antarctica is probably gonna be pretty good this year.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's like pumped.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we get on the plane, we go down um on the day that we're supposed to, and the weather is so bad.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like what is it wind mostly or or what?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like really cold.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh negative 30 uh like degrees Fahrenheit and uh like an 80, like uh I don't know what is Celsius.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh then it was like a 50 mile, like 80 kilometer like an hour wind.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it was horrendous pretty much just like a whiteout so bad.
• 23:34
  unknown: Oh man.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so then they're like, hey, we're gonna wait for the weather to pass a little bit, and uh, we all go off to like the portables and stuff or whatever, like the little like housings, housing they have on the side where uh because yeah, Antarctica's like broken into providence, providences, and uh uh this area is like manned by like a Russian group, and it was like pretty like bare bones, honestly.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we went there, we're like having like coffees and stuff, and like the the main area, everybody changed up.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the race staff keeps coming in like every half an hour for about two and a half hours, and uh they keep being like, Hey, like the weather's gonna get a little bit better, the weather's gonna get a little bit better, and then like I swear, dude, it was like out of a movie.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they come in like two and a half hours later, and they're absolutely just like frozen.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, it's so bad outside that if we don't go now, we're gonna get stuck here for like two days.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I was sitting next to this like giant like Russian man, and uh he was like eating like a plate of like meat and noodles, and he's like, he's like, I wouldn't go outside.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, man, I'm not trying to go outside either, to be honest.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was like, here we go.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really set the tone and kicked off the race.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh like yeah, it was it was absolutely nuts.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: They ended up putting like two sleds up and it was like a whiteout, and we ran across like these flags.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think it was like a kilometer out and back.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um man, that's brutal.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just so brutal.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, honestly, really set the tone for the race.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I feel like just kicked it off on a big adventure.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I feel like all these like stage races, I mean, especially this race, I feel like, or that race, it's I feel like it's like adult like marathon airplane camp.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go away for a week and uh you leave with like lifelong memories and uh just like such a closeness with all the people on the trip.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: How how many competitors do they have per iteration, like per year?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can't be many.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so it's been growing.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the first year I did it, I think there was around, I think there's around like 60 people total with like race staff and everything, and then 47 competitors.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh the second time I did it, I think it was near 60 competitors, and then uh the last time I did it, I think it was right over 60, like 65.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what's the what's the highlight of the three times you've done it?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a particular race that stands out in your mind as I don't know, the most maybe it's not the most enjoyable, but the most memorable?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it is it's so hard.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know we're in each of the spots, like such for like a glimpse of time, uh, because we're pretty much there for you know 14 hours in each area.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and Antarctica is always so special to go to.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just absolutely stunning.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an untouched place in the world.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so raw, just like, yeah, insane.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Insane to see every time.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um Australia has always been really fun too.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I feel like there's uh there's a race staff that does a really great job, and there's like this marathon club on the course that we run.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like by that time too, it's it's it's such an enjoyable experience because everybody's really, I feel like starting to sink into to this experience of getting up running a marathon and going back on a plane.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they always have like, I don't know, a big uh big barbecue uh in the evening for us, which is like so fun and just yeah, really, really good vibes.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think the most one of the most unique, I guess, experiences that I had too on on out of the three years was um in Dubai.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we were running around like sunset one time.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like running like along like the coast onto like this beautiful like skyline with like the Birch Khalifa and all that stuff.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then around that time, uh the whole like people are like like you know, walking around, like little kids and like everybody are like in like traditional dress uh for their culture and for their country.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um like I think it was around it was like sunset, there's like radiating like prayer music throughout the city.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and everybody just like takes this like like a pause like wherever they're at and like pray to pray.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought that was like so unique and um and so special.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I thought that was like a very like keep, like I don't know, like a very like pivotal moment in the race too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wow, this is like so nuts.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, just bouncing from a culture to culture too, it's like so real.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's such a crazy, such a crazy thing to do.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, it's almost like running the marathons day after day is not that big of a deal.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in the grand scheme of the, you know, with all the travel and the logistics and the cultural changes and the food and um yeah, it must be an amazing experience.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, it's it's incredible.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't envy the race directors on the on the on the week, but uh yeah, it's it's absolutely amazing, man.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And also just like you make again like lifelong friends like with like a lot of this stuff, and there's um, you know, there's such a thing with it, you know, just sharing and suffering.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it adds to like uh almost like a layer of like trauma bonding.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I I don't know, I've been so lucky over the years to make such great friends from this.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this past year too, I worked with uh a really cool YouTuber, Michelle Care, uh, who does this thing called Challenge Accepted, and uh got to spend a lot of time with her training for it and then actually doing the event with her and um it was amazing, yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: So very cool.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did she did she finish?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: She finished, man, yeah, absolutely crushed.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was cool.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's some like team bonding low morale related stuff here with the like multiple days of suffering and going through this crazy experience together.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it must be amazing.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so having done that a few times, having taken part in all these other crazy stage races, done all this amazing stuff with Red Bull, created all this content, worked like throughout the industry in a load of different ways.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know you were with on running for a good chunk of time doing like pro-athlete management and stuff like that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Were you essentially managing the the on running team?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yes, I was.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um I was with AN for about eight years.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I started with them um as a more of like a sales rep in like the tri-state area and then moved more into like a community marketing managerial role.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then for pretty much the the second half of my career at on, so the last four years, uh, which I I ended up departing on in November of 25.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So just a handful of months ago.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh I was I was like tasked with like building out our trail team, um, and I was our our global like manager for that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was uh probably one of the most special points of my life.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was just absolutely amazing, man, helping like I don't know, other athletes in a different way.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really enjoyed uh my time when I was at on and especially my last role there, just because I feel like I'm so I'm so passionate about this sport and really able, like really putting a lot of myself uh to be able to like market and help other athletes um, you know, boost up their career and um their yeah, their career in the sport is was just like so meaningful.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Interested in your opinion from because you're pretty embedded in the sport in general in loads of different areas, like from what you've seen over the last few years and from your own experience and the athletes you've worked with and the brands that you speak to, like which area of trail running, or I shouldn't say area, like uh which distance races do you think are growing at the fastest rate at the moment?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it kind of felt like over the last decade or so that the sport's just exploded in general, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And like grown really, really quickly in loads of different ways.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And definitely we saw like big hundred-mile races and obviously UTMB Western states, all all the super famous, really well-known longer distance events get a lot of focus.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have Golden Trail kind of blowing up and uh the coverage being incredible, and seeing these shorter, faster races and and the way that they've kind of documented and presented that really professionally, like a like a proper professional sport, is like amazing to watch, and the streams are amazing and whatever.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now, like there's all these adventure races, and there's 200 milers, and there's like I don't know, it's kind of splitting off into loads of different segments and growing quite a lot, which is super exciting.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: But just interested from your perspective, like working at on and working with the athletes and you know, the stuff that you do is quite different from that in terms of these multi-day stage race type events.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you what do you think is the next thing?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like where where are the brands focused?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it the ultra distance?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is the subultra stuff gonna blow up and take the forefront because it's easier to cover and you know a bit more kind of like I don't know.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man, uh no, that's that's a great question.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think um I think yes to all of it, honestly.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think where uh I feel like what what a little bit of our strategy when I was there was definitely focusing on more of the the hundred mile distance.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I still think that's gonna be that way for for quite a while.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's just because like I would say like having like a certain like a higher percentage of the team be made up of these like proper like trail and ultra athletes.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then the rest of the roster being like made up of a little bit more of like the the sub sub-ultra um like athletes like golden trail world series and those things.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that just being, just because I feel like a lot of these uh these brands, um, I mean, including on, uh, you want to do a lot of storytelling.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You want to talk about how uh your product is is the fastest in the world, how durable it is, um, and how it can like last for some of the hardest races in the world.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like that checks off all the boxes and like the hundred-mile distance because I it's it's an it's it's it's an established, it's uh sorry, it's uh it's established enough um where it has its own race series.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's covered so well.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, all the stuff that UT and B has done with it honestly has been incredible.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's it's really like grown the sport in the sense of like people are able to have like a proper season, follow along with it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the same thing goes with the Golden Trail World series as well, but I feel like it's still a little bit in a different lane where I think like the 100 mile distance seems to be like almost like some of like the purest like uh of the sport and that I've been around for a while.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the Golden Trail World series is um, even though there's a little bit of crossover in 100 miles as well, but I feel like there's more like crossover from like, hey, there's like some fast roadrunners that started running trail, now we're good at mountains.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think having a little bit more of like I don't know, that core group seems like a little bit more authentic to the space in that hundred mile distance, and I don't think that's gonna change.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then yeah, I think Golden Trail and Sub Ultra is still really important.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, it's getting so much viewership, it's a little bit easier to watch because it's like quick, it's more dynamic.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, but I still think I there's room for both, but I think it's just like a bigger percentage on on that end still.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I don't, I mean, maybe the like crazy, crazy races, like the 200-mile races and stuff like that, will uh will continue to grow and become a little bit more established, but I don't think they're they're so niche that I I don't think they're as um they're as like sought after.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: But overall, too, man, I think a big piece of it is, I mean, just for the athlete side, and I mean I used to always like talk about uh talk to all my athletes about it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, hey, look, like I want to be challenged as an athlete manager too.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: So like I don't know everything that you're doing as a person or as an athlete, to be honest.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, for the most part, I know which races you're doing, of course.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: But uh you have to like when we come to like renegotiate the contract, or even if it's the first time we're talking, like you have to be able to understand your value.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're able to understand your value and how you can like incorporate it into this brand and our like uh our our strategy, then that's how like I feel like some people uh that are doing a little bit more obscure things can get involved.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well it's interesting, isn't it?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got all sorts of different, I mean, there's quite a big split because I guess you when you're talking about it there, you're talking about it from an elite competition standpoint and and then also storytelling standpoint for the brand to position products with you know, people who are good ambassadors who embody the values and all that stuff, but also who are gonna perform well on a world stage at some of the biggest races and cross the finish line wearing this particular bit of kit that someone's then gonna want to buy.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's obviously makes a lot of sense.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then from our perspective as event organizers, and I think maybe you you organise some races as well, maybe.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it it's almost a flip side of a coin where a hundred-mile race is so inaccessible for the majority of people that you know you're gonna sell entries to a 10k, 15k, 25k trail race all day long and getting people into a 100k, 100 mile.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously that market is growing and more people have kind of got the skills and aspirations to to do it, but the cost and complexity of organizing a 100-mile race for the number of people who are actually gonna sign up for it versus sort of 50k and down, there's actually a pretty big gap there that we're finding.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose it is too it's two different markets, isn't it?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can be inspired and um interested in products by watching people perform at huge profile hundred mile races and and win big events, doesn't mean you can't then go and buy that kit and use it you know for the 10 mile or down the road that you take part in at the weekend.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it is interesting that difference.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh you're 100% right, man.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I think the I think again, I guess like with like with those athletes that are like performing at such a high level, running like 100 mile distances, I think they're just like such great like authenticators where the brands can take them and then be like, hey, this shoe like like like went across like the Pyrenees and like did I don't know, did all this like crazy stuff, has like the fastest time in this race, uh that around a loop around Shamini or around the UTMB.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, like you're saying, like, but like actually like organizing a race, people don't really want to maybe people don't ever want to run that distance themselves, but I feel like they want to have the gear that's that's able to like like upstand that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean again, like being in major cities, like spending a lot of time in New York City and in Miami.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so many of my friends that aren't even like in the scene like whatsoever, they'll like go into the store, they're like, oh my gosh, like check out these like new new kicks that I got.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, I heard this guy like ran like the fastest time up this mountain with, and really all they're gonna do is like, but they're like they're waterproof and they can like withstand, uh, but they're gonna walk like you know two miles a day in the city, you know.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I so I feel like even on like a smaller perspective of people that aren't even like racing trail races, people like love the storytelling that it's like some of like the I guess like the best product in the world.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and like you said, I don't know, dude.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, going back to the to the race thing, I I found that out with uh some of my partners that I put races on with that we were like, hey, we're gonna bring like more trail running and stuff to like New York City.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we ended up putting on uh this race called the the New York City Trail Fest for a couple years.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when we first started it, we're like, oh, people are gonna like love this and stuff.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the first year we had a 50 mile distance and a marathon distance, and pretty much almost nobody signed up for the 50 mile distance.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, right?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're the ones that grab the attention and all the content of the they're the inspirational, kind of like exciting events 50 mile, 100 mile, 100k, CTC, JFK, blah blah blah, like Western States.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's all the stuff that gets the attention, but sometimes you forget because you're so exposed to it, how challenging running that distance is for like the vast majority of people.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, a marathon's a long way, and then put it on trails and with some elevation and stuff.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not an it feels like a normal thing now to go and run a marathon, but it's still it's bloody hard for most people.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's brutal.
• 39:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, yeah, being around, uh, I'm sure you feel the same, James.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like being around, being around the sports so much.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like maybe like losing, like, I don't know if losing touch is the right word, but like it just becomes so like normalized where you're like, oh, like yeah, everybody does this.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go put it on, you're like, oh, actually, this is like, yeah, it's it's different.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like so much.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you definitely lose you lose some perspective for sure.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've had people say, like, oh, I wish there was a short distance at this race.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, what do you mean?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a 25k, it's only got 800 meters of climbing.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, that's not that short.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I suppose it depends.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, cool.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: All right, awesome.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in terms of what's next for you then, David, what's what's coming up in 2026?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: You said at the start of the podcast you had some some projects, some plans, some races coming up.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, what's what's next for you?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, man.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, since I since I've left on to you, I've had a little bit more time to to train and you know focus a little bit more on my uh uh athletic endeavors and um um I feel like content and marketing and all that stuff.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's been it's been a real big blessing and a and a nice uh nice new fresh chapter for me.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, coming up, man, it's um I feel like it's gonna be a pretty pretty solid month.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I got uh speed project coming up next week.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going out there to do the relay again with uh a team from Miami called the Herd.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm pumped on that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then I'm I've been doing a lot of stuff with the ACG team with Nike.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'm cruising over there because they're sponsoring two two big races here with uh Gorge Waterfalls and then also Broken Arrow.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I'm heading over to Gorge Waterfalls and doing the 30k over there.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um then there's like a little like running running event uh at Coachella, which I'll be like popping over uh afterwards to get a little get a little vibes and music and some running.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then heading down to um uh or heading up to to New York in May for Wings for Life World Run.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have like an in-person run there um with Red Bull.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I feel like my uh like one of my big moments for the year is uh at the beginning of June or like late May.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I'm doing the jungle ultra again, and it's like a seven-day stage race across uh a portion of the Amazon, and it's always like you know, ranked one of the most like challenging races in the world.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was actually out there last year and uh I had to get surgery because I like like fully like busted my ankle, and um so I got a metal plate in my ankle now, and I'm I'm ready to go, man.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fired up.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Get back after it tell us a little bit about that, isn't it?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually, I mean, I've heard of it peripherally, but I don't know anything like what kind of distances are we talking, what did the stages look like?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um because that sounds horrendous.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, uh uh you pack all of your own gear on your pack, on your in your back, and normally like if you like get a really good uh a good situation, it's about 20k uh that you're carrying.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's everything.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's your food for the week, it's um it's your hammock that you're sleeping in every night, it's sleeping bag, all the things, trucking poles and um iodine tablets too to like for water and all the things.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so yeah, you drive about you leave from Cusco in Peru, drive out about like eight hours into into the jungle.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you spend the first night out there, and then you kick off the race.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: And each each stage is about it's about a marathon.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for for the week, and then the middle stage on the fourth day is uh it's the fourth or the fifth day, and it's it's a pretty pretty dang long.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's around like 70k.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and honestly, the terrain is just absolutely like brutal and gruel grueling.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like somebody like came through the jungle and like machete it a little bit.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, how much, how much is it like a bushwhack versus an actual run?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can't imagine the trails are particularly traily.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, not like uh not in the common sense at all with like a lot of the races or like a lot of the more standard races.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's pretty much, yeah, just like bushwhack through.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're not really like I guess like fully like running through the bush yourself, but it's like a cleared like tunnel that's like very ungroomed, yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and very raw.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, man, it's such a such a cool event, such an adventure.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, that's the stuff that It really gets me excited right now.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm really pumped to get like out there.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what what do you think will be the biggest challenge uh that event for you this year?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is it the the fitness?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the weather?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the food?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the sleep?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like what what's the yeah, what's the hardest part of these stage races for you?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's usually the weather, man.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the weather is uh the weather's always the most challenging part.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh at least for me too.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean honestly, I hate the cold.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I mean there's I don't know, especially in the Amazon.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: We we lucked out a bit last year where there wasn't uh I mean there was rain, but I feel like it would always like let up at the right time.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of like instead of like going to like setting up your hammock and stuff like that in the rain and everything being wet and your hammock and stuff pretty much being wet and cold and all the things, uh, I feel like there was always like a nice like stop where when we were putting stuff up, there wasn't too much rain, and when we were like breaking stuff down, there wasn't too much rain.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like uh at least the nighttime was the sleep was dry.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's uh a blessing.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but other than that, honestly, the I mean the Amazon isn't too bad just because in the sense of like coldness, um, just like the heat.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I again I think that's usually the most like nerve-wracking part to me, is like almost like I hope it's not like brutally cold and I just like am suffering out here for well, I mean, like you say, at least if you're in Miami, it's like hot and humid, and sometimes it dumps a load of rain, so not completely dissimilar from what you could expect to find.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what do they do in terms of the the camps each night then?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a set stage but you have to carry your own hammock and all of your gear with you, is there any support at all?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do they do they bring water, do they do food in the evening or anything, or is it full on you just camp in this particular spot and follow a GPX track, or like how how do they even monitor it?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh everybody has like a uh a tracker on them, um, just for I'm sure for like race like clarity and but also like for safety.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you have that, um, because I mean you're just like in the jungle, like if you get lost, that would be awful.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh fight anatoms and all the things, uh jaguars.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking about the risk assessment for this event.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how you would uh even start making that, but yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right serious.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and um, and yeah, man, pretty much, yeah, they they have markers and stuff that they put put out there um so you can follow follow the course.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, pretty much they camp every night.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: They they they have water available for everybody for the most part, and uh that's it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they have that in like pretty much like designated like camp areas where it's like a little bit more like cleared section, and then uh you can like throw up your hammock, but everything else you just like carry on your own.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: And do you have a particular goal for this year?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: You got like a time goal or a position goal or yeah, I I would really love to go and win it.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that's definitely on on the top of the list is uh to get after it uh this year when I'm out there.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I don't know, that's what I kind of like about some of these races too.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh a little bit less um like time oriented and also like like more like pure racing, which I think is like a ton of fun.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you know exactly like yeah, keeping an eye on your per kilometer pace or splits as you're bushwhacking through the jungle.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh class.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, amazing.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: So speed project next then, not long at all.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: You feeling fit and ready?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Feeling fit, feeling ready.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, next week.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, so I think six days from now is uh when we fly out on the first.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: And is there gonna be any the team that you're doing it with?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna be any any coverage at all?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna be doing stuff on socials or can people follow along?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so stuff on socials.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh just uh on my IGs mainly I feel like where I post most of the time.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: So just my name, David Kilgore, and uh and the herd as well.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they'll be updating like quite a bit, uh, which is the team that I'm on.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll be sweet, man.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: But we have uh yeah, a couple of content creators that'll be out there with us on the team, and uh it's just gonna be it's gonna be a time.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: How how how are the temperatures looking?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've been watching the weather.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a bit.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, they look pretty good.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh again, I uh I feel like I'm not like a cold guy.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: It ran late, snowed last year, which was like insane for the for the area, which is probably like really bad.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't say uh and but I was like, I really hope it doesn't snow.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but the temperatures actually look pretty warm, but but decent compared to what they are sometimes.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of the highs are like in the like 90 to 95 uh Fahrenheit.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it would definitely be warm, but uh but I feel like not ridiculous because I I did the first time I did the race solo, uh we they got pushed back because of uh the pandemic.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was in June, and uh I think it was like 130 degrees, like when I was like running like towards Death Valley, and it was just like so, so hot.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's horrendous.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh well, hopefully not.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Fingers crossed you get some nice stable conditions.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, definitely everyone who's listening, obviously, go and check out check out David's Instagram, follow him along on social media, make sure you keep an eye on how the how he gets on with the herd at the at the speed project, and then obviously everything else that you're sounds like you're pinging around all over the place throughout the year.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of cool, exciting stuff going on.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, amazing.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck with it all.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hope your racing goes well.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely be following along and um yeah, keep in touch.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure having you on.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, brother.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, James.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, all right, all right, thanks a lot, guys.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back again with another episode in a couple of weeks' time.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um for the time being, like we said, go and follow David on social media.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, check out Run Through Trails as well.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're coming into coming into trail season now.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've got an event in the late district in a couple of weeks' time, which actually is going to be the British Championship this year and also the European qualifiers.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got a really stacked field and we're gonna do a little bit of a kind of race preview episode coming up in the next week or so with Lewis ahead of that race.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, super excited for that.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, David, thanks a lot for your time, man.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Great to meet you and um thanks everyone for listening.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you all soon.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.