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How do we step into the sense of belonging with Life? · Life In Flow Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Life in Flow podcast.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: The three of us, Yulia, Polina and Irina
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SPEAKER_01: are exploring what life in flow
0:09
SPEAKER_01: and flow in life is.
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SPEAKER_01: Join us as we experiment
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SPEAKER_03: test our diverse hypotheses
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SPEAKER_03: and have fun in the process.
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SPEAKER_01: Will we find an answer?
0:22
SPEAKER_01: This isn't just
0:24
SPEAKER_01: an intellectual discussion
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SPEAKER_01: We're co-creating a shared field
0:28
SPEAKER_01: beyond words
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Thank you.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: we're attuning to what emerges moment by moment so that
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SPEAKER_01: the conversation itself becomes a group flow experience and we invite you to become
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SPEAKER_03: an active participant in this experiment there will be pauses and moments
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SPEAKER_03: of silence we leave them on purpose because this is where magic happens go beyond
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SPEAKER_02: the intellectual information listen with your whole body
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SPEAKER_02: and notice how your somatic experience shifts in the process share
1:06
SPEAKER_02: with us what reveals itself in the space where mind body
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SPEAKER_02: and energy flow together greetings everyone and welcome to another episode of
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SPEAKER_02: the life and flow podcast i'm julia i'll be facilitating this conversation today
1:29
SPEAKER_02: supported at all times by polina and irina hello greetings girls
1:38
SPEAKER_02: and actually we have an innovation that we'll be introducing we'll see if it sticks
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SPEAKER_02: but we will be beginning and ending our conversation with the sound actually with
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SPEAKER_02: the sound of the sound ball if you are watching it on youtube you'll see it and
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SPEAKER_02: here we go for s
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SPEAKER_02: and the idea behind it is that we want to just open and close this space and this is
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SPEAKER_02: a ritual to do so so what are we gonna be talking about today
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SPEAKER_02: the topic is how we how do we step into a sense of belonging with life and
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SPEAKER_02: i write this life with capital l and just give you a little bit of context
2:54
SPEAKER_02: of what it means for me and where it comes from
3:00
SPEAKER_02: i have been calling myself
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SPEAKER_02: for
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SPEAKER_02: a long time now weird on the fringe
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SPEAKER_02: and other people have called me have been calling me the same
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SPEAKER_02: a lot of people and so that kind of identity became for me big
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SPEAKER_02: and
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SPEAKER_02: when you are you feel different you feel weird then you make a lot
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SPEAKER_02: of assumptions well actually a lot of those assumptions they're also confirmed
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SPEAKER_02: by your experiences that you're not maybe seen and understood by
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SPEAKER_02: as many people as you would like to be seen and understood by and gradually
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SPEAKER_02: the stories accumulate but also if you kind of step
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SPEAKER_02: into your own agency you start feeling hmm okay well i don't really care
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SPEAKER_02: for these people and for these people and for that group and for this group and
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SPEAKER_02: for this narrative
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SPEAKER_02: and actually i don't at all agree what's going on in the world nowadays
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SPEAKER_02: and i'm just gonna like make this make this stance of
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SPEAKER_02: being different so now my weirdness is my stance of being different
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SPEAKER_02: uh and it feels better but at the end of the day
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SPEAKER_02: what I started noticing is that I often come into spaces, into contacts
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SPEAKER_02: into situations with um
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SPEAKER_02: i'd say lack of engagement it's as
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SPEAKER_02: if i have made up my mind what it's going to be like i know that this this is
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SPEAKER_02: where i will not be seen or i will not be accepted and i act accordingly
5:04
SPEAKER_02: before it happens and
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SPEAKER_02: i mean happens uh in all kinds of places including with my family
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SPEAKER_02: where i'm like okay well this is not a situation where i can make a difference
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SPEAKER_02: so let me just like resign and be with myself and i'm having so much fun thinking
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SPEAKER_02: about my stuff and look how fun my life is and i have so many adventures and
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SPEAKER_02: so like it's like it piles on and on and on and on and
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SPEAKER_02: then i had this experience actually parina was the one who introduced me
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SPEAKER_02: to this concept of belonging and what could feel like
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SPEAKER_02: um
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SPEAKER_02: and i had a very um okay
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SPEAKER_02: so no let me step back
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SPEAKER_02: so you find yourself in a more narrow and narrower world but the thing is
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SPEAKER_02: that you live in this world and this is when you were born
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SPEAKER_02: and
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SPEAKER_02: on
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SPEAKER_02: the one hand there are so many rules that this society has
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SPEAKER_02: about you know who is accepted who is useful who is valuable and those rules are
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SPEAKER_02: of course confirmed by you know like the monetary system and you know
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SPEAKER_02: the social rules and so many blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but on
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SPEAKER_02: the other hand
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SPEAKER_02: i mean just by being born into this lifetime at this moment
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SPEAKER_02: i think i belong
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SPEAKER_02: and
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SPEAKER_02: belong
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SPEAKER_02: actually everywhere and i'm not talking about fitting in
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SPEAKER_02: but rather um you know like being of this place being of this planet being of
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SPEAKER_02: of people for good um for better or for worse
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SPEAKER_02: so anyway this has been a super
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SPEAKER_02: engaging and rewarding experience
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SPEAKER_02: for me lately stepping into that space of belonging it does not always work because
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SPEAKER_02: of course like i have a lot of history to not belong
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SPEAKER_02: but when i do manage to um step in
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SPEAKER_02: the space it's like you know something big happens
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SPEAKER_02: and it doesn't necessarily happen outside but
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SPEAKER_02: in me uh like you know how beautiful it feels to belonging with this life
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SPEAKER_02: so it's like you know work in progress
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SPEAKER_02: that makes me very exciting it's like you know something so woman that has
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SPEAKER_02: so much energy so i'm really curious to explore this with you
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SPEAKER_02: um and i'm more interested i guess in like this
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SPEAKER_02: the somatic energetic um exploration it's kind of exploring it as a state as a space
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SPEAKER_02: so we can maybe like remember it inhabited together
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SPEAKER_02: okay and um i want to start again with the small game and the game is
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SPEAKER_02: we'll do
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SPEAKER_02: a couple of rounds the first one
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SPEAKER_02: not belonging to me feels like or is
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SPEAKER_02: and it can be either a feeling or a story or an example that comes to mind like
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SPEAKER_02: a micro story
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SPEAKER_02: so let's start with not belonging and yeah we'll do a couple
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SPEAKER_02: of rounds
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SPEAKER_03: not belonging feels to me like
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SPEAKER_03: being excluded from the game
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SPEAKER_03: that all children around are playing with the ball and they never pass the ball
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SPEAKER_03: to me
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SPEAKER_01: not belonging to me feels like existential dread i don't feel it right now
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SPEAKER_01: but i
10:18
SPEAKER_01: i know that feeling so i know i would have to really tune into it
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SPEAKER_01: and i'm not feeling it but yes existential dread is how i would describe
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SPEAKER_01: that feeling that i'm currently not feeling non-belonging
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SPEAKER_02: to me feels like
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SPEAKER_02: a wall
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SPEAKER_02: that is not to be penetrated
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SPEAKER_02: it's like a wall made out of concrete i can bang my head on this wall
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SPEAKER_02: and it won't move
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SPEAKER_03: to me it also feels like a wall but it's not
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SPEAKER_03: the concrete wall it's you know this kind of the metallic net
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SPEAKER_03: that separates me from like the rest of the world and i want to be on the other side
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SPEAKER_03: but i can't cross because there is this barrier that doesn't let me
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SPEAKER_03: in
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SPEAKER_01: me not belonging i have another part coming up now that has something to say
11:39
SPEAKER_01: about it
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SPEAKER_01: that part of me gets really mad and sad and feels like it's really unfair
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SPEAKER_01: and it she doesn't understand why because shouldn't we all have access to all of it
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SPEAKER_01: and explore together it's uh very confusing
12:08
SPEAKER_02: not belonging to me
12:12
SPEAKER_02: speaking about parts i have a part that has been weird since childhood
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SPEAKER_02: and did crazy things that i isn't now i am not able to understand like why
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SPEAKER_02: and this part it had to like hide and shut down
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SPEAKER_02: so not belonging feels like i am somewhere deep
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SPEAKER_02: not seen um hidden not revealing myself
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SPEAKER_02: so let's do another quick round
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SPEAKER_02: i don't have
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SPEAKER_02: a sense of this being finished
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SPEAKER_03: not belonging
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SPEAKER_03: feels to me like
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SPEAKER_03: being lost misplaced
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SPEAKER_03: it's just like your piece in the puzzle
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SPEAKER_03: but you're in the wrong puzzle and you don't understand what you're doing here
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SPEAKER_03: in this wrong puzzle or why are you a wrong piece
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SPEAKER_01: not belonging to me feels like
14:02
SPEAKER_01: i'm supposed to be plugged in or i want to be plugged
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SPEAKER_01: into this energetic field but for some reason i'm not plugged in
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SPEAKER_01: and i can't figure out how to plug in and then the what's wrong
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SPEAKER_01: with me monster comes up and starts asking all the questions about what's wrong with
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SPEAKER_01: and comparing and blaming judging getting really sad and mad and upset
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SPEAKER_01: and it's really feeling like
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SPEAKER_01: it's like a hovering hovering
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SPEAKER_01: and you don't know what reality is or how to be part of the reality
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SPEAKER_01: or why you're not part of the reality
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SPEAKER_02: yeah not belonging to me creates this numbness in terms of desires i
15:07
SPEAKER_02: don't want
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SPEAKER_02: to have or to step into many desires and deep desires
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SPEAKER_02: because i already know i'm not gonna
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SPEAKER_02: get what i desire and it's this interesting space that is somehow like very it's not
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SPEAKER_02: a grounded space it's like you're in this
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SPEAKER_02: ball or something that keeps jumping off
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SPEAKER_02: the ground
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SPEAKER_02: i was just connected to desires i don't know but this whole feels like
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SPEAKER_02: a ball constantly jumping up and down
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SPEAKER_02: or maybe there is like nothing is
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SPEAKER_02: you will not get anything you'll be just jumping
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SPEAKER_02: up and down
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SPEAKER_02: okay um
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SPEAKER_02: um interesting train of thought thank you
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SPEAKER_02: and now we'll just play this game um for belonging
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SPEAKER_02: and i really liked how
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SPEAKER_02: you know there were like parts there were micro stories it's as if
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SPEAKER_02: that we already started a journey
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SPEAKER_02: into this belonging not belonging
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SPEAKER_01: i already don't like it
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SPEAKER_01: meaning
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SPEAKER_01: because it brings up you know painful stuff and
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SPEAKER_01: i don't like it and we had such a nice meditation at the beginning i felt so good
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SPEAKER_01: and now you're making us go into this stuff that does not feel good
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SPEAKER_02: but it's you know it's belonging time i know yeah exactly
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SPEAKER_03: belonging feels to me
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SPEAKER_03: exactly like
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SPEAKER_03: feeling in my place and connected
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SPEAKER_03: like
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SPEAKER_03: i am
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SPEAKER_03: the unique piece that can feel
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SPEAKER_03: just this particular place and only me can feel it and
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SPEAKER_03: you know like
18:13
SPEAKER_03: a very famous character in a very famous soviet movie said that things
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SPEAKER_03: that didn't turn around and didn't work without me start
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SPEAKER_03: turning around and walking who is this yeah the Moscow doesn't believe in
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SPEAKER_03: fears or in tears
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SPEAKER_01: wait you're talking about
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SPEAKER_03: yes moscow doesn't believe in tears i just don't remember that no okay
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SPEAKER_03: the main character the main like the waitress lover no the lover
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SPEAKER_02: the hero lover well i'll have to look at all of
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SPEAKER_02: the main character partner lover yeah
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SPEAKER_01: belonging to me feels like
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SPEAKER_01: a warm hug an invitation not just an invitation
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SPEAKER_01: to sit next to someone or something but like the desire for my energy and my being
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SPEAKER_01: to be
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SPEAKER_01: to be you know next to and engaged with and
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SPEAKER_01: like there's room for me and
19:58
SPEAKER_01: and it's actually specifically for me i'm wanted i'm i'm desired i'm i'm welcome
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SPEAKER_01: and i'm received um
20:16
SPEAKER_01: yeah it feels really good it feels like like
20:23
SPEAKER_01: a really good friend you know that's always happy to see you
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SPEAKER_01: and you're like oh this person is always happy
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SPEAKER_01: to see me
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SPEAKER_00: there must be something good about me
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SPEAKER_02: i think belonging for me feels like
20:45
SPEAKER_02: a dance
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SPEAKER_02: the music can be different and actually partners can be dancing
20:53
SPEAKER_02: differently
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SPEAKER_02: but it's
20:57
SPEAKER_02: that i'm also i'm just on the dancing floor and i'm dancing maybe my dance
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SPEAKER_02: but me dancing my dance it changes the the dancing floor it shifts something
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SPEAKER_03: belonging to me feels like
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SPEAKER_03: being connected to thousands very fine threads to
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SPEAKER_03: the world around me
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SPEAKER_03: and
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SPEAKER_03: feeling the sense of all
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SPEAKER_03: before the beauty of these connections
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SPEAKER_01: belonging to me feels like registering in
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SPEAKER_01: the space like i'm really here i'm registered i am
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SPEAKER_01: and not registered in a way
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SPEAKER_01: that adds to
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SPEAKER_01: and is felt as a valuable contribution
22:31
SPEAKER_01: whether i bring something valuable to
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SPEAKER_01: the equation or not but like existentially more
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SPEAKER_01: energetically like present in
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SPEAKER_01: the space
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SPEAKER_02: belonging for me is staying with me
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SPEAKER_02: and fully inhabiting different experiences including with people
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SPEAKER_02: who i consider myself to be very different from very distant from and
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SPEAKER_02: when i feel belonging i feel like
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SPEAKER_02: you know like in any exchange or interaction i have as much space as
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SPEAKER_02: the other person and i have you know my shape that i don't need to be apologizing or
23:47
SPEAKER_02: for or explaining um i should just can inhabit it with like ease and fluidity
24:09
SPEAKER_01: yeah like a sense of welcome you're welcome there's space
24:12
SPEAKER_01: for you you're you're welcome as you are it's safe and you're not you're not going
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SPEAKER_01: to be judged like there's curiosity to engage
24:24
SPEAKER_01: with you you're welcome you will be held sorry i had another one
24:31
SPEAKER_02: you're welcome
24:32
SPEAKER_01: thank you
24:43
SPEAKER_03: belonging to me feels like
24:52
SPEAKER_03: like this
24:58
SPEAKER_02: like this this is that the like the that was
25:03
SPEAKER_02: the signature like like this
25:15
SPEAKER_02: yes belonging to me feels that i can you know be up to any mischief i want
25:23
SPEAKER_02: to i just like be so weird and do whatever it is that um feels
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SPEAKER_02: resident feels congruent with the present moment
25:43
SPEAKER_02: sometimes it is
25:47
SPEAKER_02: not by the rules
25:51
SPEAKER_02: and the feeling that i have space for that
26:01
SPEAKER_02: yeah
26:04
SPEAKER_02: thank you that was um we're really nice
26:09
SPEAKER_02: so like i'm wondering my question my first question is what is even belonging and
26:17
SPEAKER_02: because there are different types of belonging and often it's talked about
26:25
SPEAKER_02: in connection with like specific people or specific communities like you know i want
26:31
SPEAKER_02: to belong
26:33
SPEAKER_02: to community so I wonder what comes for you
26:41
SPEAKER_02: like what you mean by belonging
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SPEAKER_02: and what you don't mean by belonging
26:54
SPEAKER_02: in the context from which everything came
27:01
SPEAKER_02: in
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SPEAKER_02: the game
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SPEAKER_01: i think my sense of belonging originally stemmed from the experience
27:12
SPEAKER_01: of not belonging um like being kicked out of the the sensation of what i wanted
27:21
SPEAKER_01: to occupy was what informed my understanding of belonging or not belonging
27:30
SPEAKER_01: because i think when i was younger i was just very naive to the fact
27:34
SPEAKER_01: that we're just people so we're just all people having
27:39
SPEAKER_01: an experience what does it matter what kind
27:42
SPEAKER_01: of person you are what color what gender what age which country you're
27:47
SPEAKER_01: from i really thought we're just i actually didn't even care about age even
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SPEAKER_01: when i was younger like we're just people so let's engage let's
27:59
SPEAKER_01: i felt like i had all the rights to the experience of occupying the space
28:05
SPEAKER_01: as anyone else and yet the response was always like the opposite of
28:11
SPEAKER_01: that naive desire to be in the space
28:18
SPEAKER_01: and
28:19
SPEAKER_01: because it was never really explained there was a lot of assumptions right that had
28:25
SPEAKER_01: to be made and a lot of conclusions and a lot of like questions and
28:29
SPEAKER_01: it just it created a lot of tension internally and
28:40
SPEAKER_01: i still have that naive part
28:42
SPEAKER_01: in me that is of course a lot more hidden and a lot more like it's like
28:47
SPEAKER_01: a very small tiny little sliver of what it used to be it's like somewhere in
28:53
SPEAKER_01: the corner sometimes i catch
28:56
SPEAKER_01: her or it i don't know what gender it is i think it's just like a i don't know just
29:02
SPEAKER_01: an energy that's like well we're just humans let's just have fun
29:06
SPEAKER_01: or let's experience let's talk about this serious thing you know like and yet um
29:14
SPEAKER_01: the adults of the world and even not adults of the world um just people
29:23
SPEAKER_01: They're always catching me off guard with the degree of like, no.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: I will not engage with you for whatever reason.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: This will not be okay.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: You will be punished for this.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Are there other parts now that also deal with belonging?
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: More recently in the last few years,
29:50
SPEAKER_01: I guess, um
29:52
SPEAKER_01: playing with i belong just the self energy saying that to all my parts and
29:59
SPEAKER_01: and also occupying that energy and that state more within me as i go about
30:07
SPEAKER_01: the world um
30:11
SPEAKER_01: it shifts something in in the like the morphic field that i occupy
30:18
SPEAKER_01: or i connect with
30:20
SPEAKER_01: from like more of an observer perspective but
30:23
SPEAKER_01: without necessarily feeling like i must be closer or more engaged with these people
30:30
SPEAKER_01: or these aspects of things and i'm still here i'm still registering in the space
30:35
SPEAKER_01: because i am registering myself in the space okay so
30:47
SPEAKER_02: registering
30:47
SPEAKER_02: in your space what does it look like what does it feel like
30:53
SPEAKER_01: it feels like more you
30:56
SPEAKER_01: know planting your feet in the time and space
31:00
SPEAKER_01: that you're occupying like i'm here even if i'm observing and i'm not able to engage
31:06
SPEAKER_01: with you i'm still here and i'm observing you which already feels like
31:12
SPEAKER_01: there's more energy there's more data there's more connection even
31:17
SPEAKER_01: if we're not like directly engaging it's what you you talk about about
31:22
SPEAKER_01: the underworld you know like how you could be in you know in certain situations
31:27
SPEAKER_01: that are could be very triggering on the surface but if you start paying attention
31:32
SPEAKER_01: to the underworld um like what's underneath uh
31:38
SPEAKER_01: which registers not necessarily through regular thoughts and consciousness right
31:44
SPEAKER_01: in words and all that but uh it does still give you access to the energetics of
31:50
SPEAKER_01: the space in a different way but it still feels like okay i'm here like yeah yeah
31:59
SPEAKER_02: because it's amazing actually you know how being here sometimes means
32:03
SPEAKER_02: that like you're hiding and you're hardly seen by people and then being here
32:08
SPEAKER_02: as if um you know i'm here and i'm available
32:13
SPEAKER_02: for whatever that's like you know is this kind of like registering your availability
32:23
SPEAKER_02: or not necessarily
32:27
SPEAKER_01: well when i'm here and i'm hiding huh
32:33
SPEAKER_01: that's that's
32:34
SPEAKER_01: a different state
32:38
SPEAKER_02: no no i mean like there is hiding but what's the opposite of that the one
32:42
SPEAKER_01: that you mentioned right oh yes that's right so i'm here and i'm available
32:47
SPEAKER_01: but i'm not going to like force you into engaging with me i will connect with you
32:52
SPEAKER_01: through the underworld and give you the invitation of engaging with me in
32:56
SPEAKER_01: the middle world you know kind of that kind of thing
33:11
SPEAKER_03: ir how about you yeah well i think there are different levels of belonging
33:20
SPEAKER_03: and not belonging and they are all
33:27
SPEAKER_03: they all exist
33:30
SPEAKER_03: so like it all starts i think all
33:34
SPEAKER_03: of us with just like
33:38
SPEAKER_03: feeling of belonging or not belonging to the closest
33:45
SPEAKER_03: social circles
33:51
SPEAKER_03: so like
33:52
SPEAKER_03: in my life for example i had i have plenty i have had plenty of experiences
33:59
SPEAKER_03: of having this group of people where as i mentioned in my quote before
34:08
SPEAKER_03: i know and i feel that when i be in this circle the wheels start spinning
34:15
SPEAKER_03: and some things start working that don't work without me and everyone recognizes
34:22
SPEAKER_03: that and i feel it and when i'm there i feel that i'm that puzzle that well piece of
34:29
SPEAKER_03: the puzzle that fits
34:31
SPEAKER_03: its own place and there is this feeling of recognition and welcome
34:36
SPEAKER_03: as paulina you mentioned
34:41
SPEAKER_03: and i also had plenty of experiences especially
34:46
SPEAKER_03: in childhood of feeling excluded and being weird weird what's
34:54
SPEAKER_03: the correct pronunciation of this weird world
34:59
SPEAKER_03: well i i was a very strange child and i did have experiences of being bullied
35:10
SPEAKER_03: and this sensation of being excluded
35:16
SPEAKER_03: and not understanding why i'm excluded why i'm not included in the game what's wrong
35:26
SPEAKER_03: with me
35:29
SPEAKER_03: and then this belonging in the small social circles
35:38
SPEAKER_03: or not belonging
35:42
SPEAKER_03: can also get expanded
35:52
SPEAKER_03: it's still social mostly but for example
36:01
SPEAKER_03: having lived in spain for 23 years public for more than 20 years i've
36:08
SPEAKER_03: for one hand i never considered and never felt myself
36:12
SPEAKER_03: an immigrant i never had this experience uh that many immigrants complain about
36:20
SPEAKER_03: and refer to that you know like you feel that you you are a foreigner here meaning
36:27
SPEAKER_03: that
36:31
SPEAKER_03: you are stranger and there is there is a space here
36:35
SPEAKER_03: that you're not included you're not allowed
36:38
SPEAKER_03: in i i
36:41
SPEAKER_03: never had this experience i always uh make friends very easily
36:46
SPEAKER_03: in barcelona i had a very varied social circle but at the same time for many years
36:56
SPEAKER_03: and this is not the case anymore but
36:59
SPEAKER_03: for many years i have this feeling
37:05
SPEAKER_03: that i don't belong here not because i am
37:07
SPEAKER_03: a foreigner but because it just it's not my place and like i was walking in
37:13
SPEAKER_03: the street i was listening to the conversations of the people i was observing like
37:20
SPEAKER_03: the social behavior the typical patterns of what could be described
37:26
SPEAKER_03: as national character
37:29
SPEAKER_03: and i was feeling like
37:33
SPEAKER_03: what am i doing here this is not my place i don't want
37:37
SPEAKER_03: to be here but at the same time for example i i felt the same when i was in russia
37:42
SPEAKER_03: when i was visiting i was feeling like this social vibe of the the patterns
37:50
SPEAKER_03: of how people were communicating
37:52
SPEAKER_03: with each other how they were interacting some patterns of
37:56
SPEAKER_03: mentality how they were expressing themselves
38:00
SPEAKER_03: and what ideas they were expressing i also was feeling like
38:07
SPEAKER_03: what i am doing here i
38:08
SPEAKER_03: don't belong to this society so there used to be time
38:14
SPEAKER_03: when i felt like well i i can't find the place in the world like globally in
38:23
SPEAKER_03: the world where i belong
38:26
SPEAKER_03: where is the country i should live i don't belong anywhere and
38:32
SPEAKER_03: then there is this level that you like you included in the title or like of
38:40
SPEAKER_03: the main question of belonging to life with capital l
38:49
SPEAKER_00: and with life
38:52
SPEAKER_03: with life okay i agree all grammar corrections i accept no no it's not no it's not
38:59
SPEAKER_02: grammar correction but it's like to and with it's just kind
39:02
SPEAKER_02: of like different relating kind of relating i think that's true because uh one
39:07
SPEAKER_01: the first one is kind of like ownership uh like life owns you whereas
39:12
SPEAKER_01: with is uh i guess also has agency
39:18
SPEAKER_01: and and there's not a clear relationship of who comes from what like you know that's
39:27
SPEAKER_03: a very interesting explanation because i would argue that in order to arrive
39:34
SPEAKER_03: at belonging with life at this awareness that yes actually i do belong here
39:44
SPEAKER_03: you first need to recognize the ownership that life has over you so like you need
39:52
SPEAKER_03: to surrender control you just you need to surrender to life and this is
39:57
SPEAKER_03: at least how my um what things of like my feeling of belonging
40:04
SPEAKER_03: and not belonging shifted for me
40:09
SPEAKER_03: that when i started experimenting with what we called here flow of life and living
40:18
SPEAKER_03: in flow not in the state of law but really just
40:24
SPEAKER_03: engaging with life as with
40:30
SPEAKER_03: something that has agency and wisdom and it's alive and is guiding me and holding me
40:36
SPEAKER_03: and i need to learn to trust it and reading signs and you know interacting with it
40:43
SPEAKER_03: as if it was a
40:47
SPEAKER_03: co-creator with me
40:52
SPEAKER_03: so this is when i started finding more
40:56
SPEAKER_03: and more these moments of
40:59
SPEAKER_03: awareness realization of this feeling inside me that i i think it started not with
41:06
SPEAKER_03: the like yeah i realized that i fully belong it first started with realizations
41:13
SPEAKER_03: that less and less i find within myself the feeling that i don't belong
41:20
SPEAKER_03: and curiously julia you will like it i think um
41:26
SPEAKER_03: because with socially it's more difficult to overcome the people who they are
41:33
SPEAKER_03: yes like when we start flowing with life when we start you like following
41:40
SPEAKER_03: the signs reading the signs and just co-creating with life it becomes easier
41:48
SPEAKER_03: to find it's not even finding you just life brings you to those social circles
41:55
SPEAKER_03: where you may feel that you belong but for me it started with really this
42:07
SPEAKER_03: more connection through nature
42:15
SPEAKER_03: like when you
42:22
SPEAKER_03: realize that you do belong
42:25
SPEAKER_03: with this place even though you don't find yet this
42:32
SPEAKER_03: close interaction
42:33
SPEAKER_03: with your social circles in this place
42:39
SPEAKER_02: it's like you're being held by something bigger is it like that?
42:42
SPEAKER_03: it's more like becoming aware that you're definitely a part of this place even
42:51
SPEAKER_03: if it seems to you that socially you don't fit this is for example what happened
42:57
SPEAKER_03: to me with my feeling Russian because for many years while living
43:03
SPEAKER_03: in Barcelona I was feeling like
43:09
SPEAKER_02: i was saying to myself no like no i'm not russian i am the citizen of
43:15
SPEAKER_03: the world i i can live anywhere i really can live anywhere like i belong everywhere
43:23
SPEAKER_03: and this country it's really like i don't agree with its social order and
43:29
SPEAKER_03: with what is going on no no no i don't belong here and then
43:37
SPEAKER_03: suddenly just feeling the connection with nature with the forest with the field with
43:44
SPEAKER_03: the land i all of a sudden realized uh
43:54
SPEAKER_03: i am russian
43:55
SPEAKER_03: and i can't explain what makes me russian but i'm definitely russian and i belong
44:02
SPEAKER_03: to this place before belonging with this place
44:08
SPEAKER_01: wait wait distinction yeah wait so i am
44:17
SPEAKER_01: of this place is what you're saying i that's your entry point i'm
44:22
SPEAKER_01: of it like i can feel it i'm of this land i'm
44:25
SPEAKER_01: of this these trees this this this earth this like it's it feels like a almost um
44:35
SPEAKER_01: like a gen like if there's a genetic aspect to where you're born like that kind
44:39
SPEAKER_03: of uh connect connector yes it's also like i had one moment uh when i was in bali
44:48
SPEAKER_03: and you're like i went to bali because i had been dreaming of living in bali
44:53
SPEAKER_03: for several years and finally i decided that i will fulfill this dream
44:57
SPEAKER_03: And I had this moment of insight when I was sitting,
45:01
SPEAKER_03: I was alone.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: I was just traveling through the island
45:04
SPEAKER_03: and I was seated on the beach where it's like...
45:07
SPEAKER_03: In Bali they have quite a lot
45:10
SPEAKER_03: of black volcanic beaches with black sand
45:18
SPEAKER_03: so just imagine this like beach coast like you would see on this uh postcards
45:27
SPEAKER_03: the paradise beach with the palm trees the blue uh
45:35
SPEAKER_03: sea but instead of
45:36
SPEAKER_03: the white sand it's totally totally black
45:40
SPEAKER_03: and this black volcanic sun transmits very powerful energy just it was like buzzing
45:50
SPEAKER_03: with energy and so i am the only person on this whole course it's at the place
46:00
SPEAKER_03: of power it really felt like the place of power i had been dreaming
46:05
SPEAKER_03: for several years of coming there
46:11
SPEAKER_03: and i'm sitting there and realize that i'm not of this place
46:20
SPEAKER_03: that this is not my place it's like i don't feel connection to it and at that moment
46:29
SPEAKER_03: uh i realized that we're all you know connected to the place where we were born like
46:35
SPEAKER_03: with the um with the cord what is the name of the native cord like with
46:43
SPEAKER_03: which umbilical the umbilical umbilical cord yeah
46:48
SPEAKER_03: and so like some people get it cut and they can move to other places
46:55
SPEAKER_03: and don't feel any connection to
46:57
SPEAKER_03: the place they're born some people have it very short so
47:01
SPEAKER_03: and they never move they live for the whole their whole life the place
47:06
SPEAKER_03: where they were born and but i have this umbilical cord very long so i can really go
47:15
SPEAKER_03: to any place of the world and i can
47:20
SPEAKER_03: live there and be happy there
47:24
SPEAKER_03: but i still have this cord that connects me to
47:27
SPEAKER_03: that land to this land story to this land culture the history the songs the music
47:36
SPEAKER_03: the myths the literature everything
47:43
SPEAKER_03: and yes it's like it's the part of my dna and i am the part of the dna of the of
47:49
SPEAKER_03: the land
47:56
SPEAKER_01: wait so can i also another thing that came up
47:59
SPEAKER_01: in what you were sharing it was that it sounded like the reference point shifted
48:05
SPEAKER_01: what you're referencing to get into that sense of belonging instead of referencing
48:13
SPEAKER_01: the people you started referencing the places the earth that aspect but also
48:19
SPEAKER_01: then you started referencing life itself like that was kind of the sequence
48:24
SPEAKER_01: the trajectory right so because we're we're socialized to reference other humans for
48:31
SPEAKER_01: that sense of belonging
48:33
SPEAKER_01: so referencing um referencing uh places would already be like
48:41
SPEAKER_01: a different like already a step sideways to that socialization but then also getting
48:47
SPEAKER_01: to referencing life itself is like another big leap away from how we're socialized
48:53
SPEAKER_01: to reference ourselves is that
48:59
SPEAKER_01: does that sound accurate?
49:00
SPEAKER_01: because that's how it works for me and it resonates
49:03
SPEAKER_03: for me I think it may be described this way
49:10
SPEAKER_03: I think in essence
49:17
SPEAKER_03: it's not necessarily
49:19
SPEAKER_03: that I stopped looking for this belonging with people and I accepted belonging
49:25
SPEAKER_03: with nature and it changed things
49:27
SPEAKER_03: yes i just expanded the the connection points like belonging with life
49:41
SPEAKER_03: a yeah yeah it's composed of many things so not only so like because
49:46
SPEAKER_03: when i expanded it to life
49:50
SPEAKER_03: my feeling of belonging with people also changed
49:56
SPEAKER_01: yes that makes sense because it because that would be a bigger wrong um on
50:02
SPEAKER_01: the circumference uh than just like a more of an inner circle of just humans
50:09
SPEAKER_01: so meaning you're yes you're expanding which then contains life itself plus
50:15
SPEAKER_01: the you know the earth the various pieces of earth around the globe plus then that
50:20
SPEAKER_01: the humans and animals and whatever else right so that totally makes sense yes
50:26
SPEAKER_03: am i getting that yes
50:27
SPEAKER_03: but what what i mean is it's not just like okay i stopped looking for the belonging
50:34
SPEAKER_03: in the closed social circles because we're all humans yeah but um
50:45
SPEAKER_03: because i sensed this belonging with life
50:51
SPEAKER_03: So it's sort of relaxed some tension in me that arise with this feeling
51:00
SPEAKER_03: of not belonging and what's wrong with me.
51:02
SPEAKER_03: And where is my place?
51:03
SPEAKER_03: There is, I don't belong anywhere.
51:06
SPEAKER_03: And when you're like your nervous system relaxes
51:10
SPEAKER_03: and you enter into this more generative
51:12
SPEAKER_03: state
51:13
SPEAKER_03: so life itself guides
51:16
SPEAKER_03: you to other
51:18
SPEAKER_03: closed social circles where you can feel this belonging yes that totally resonates
51:27
SPEAKER_01: and it also makes me reflect on um remember i think i shared with you also ira about
51:34
SPEAKER_01: the experience i had when
51:37
SPEAKER_01: after dad passed and you know like some time went by and during the grieving process
51:41
SPEAKER_01: but eventually i had um a huge shift that happened where the cells
51:47
SPEAKER_01: in my body were um
51:53
SPEAKER_01: speaking to me and this the the cells were of dad
51:59
SPEAKER_01: not belonging to dad so that distinction about you know
52:03
SPEAKER_01: belonging to life or being of life like that
52:05
SPEAKER_01: distinction is actually important. So it wasn't
52:07
SPEAKER_01: I belong to dad
52:09
SPEAKER_01: but there are cells in me
52:10
SPEAKER_01: that are of him
52:11
SPEAKER_01: and being able to
52:15
SPEAKER_01: see them and relax as you said around that whole aspect help to integrate a lot
52:20
SPEAKER_01: of things and it also it has to do directly with this belonging aspect but
52:24
SPEAKER_01: a different like sense and quality to it if that makes sense
52:31
SPEAKER_01: and also what you said
52:33
SPEAKER_01: about um
52:36
SPEAKER_01: not necessarily being like of the place so for example when i moved
52:41
SPEAKER_01: to california
52:44
SPEAKER_01: i knew i didn't feel like i belong here per se but i had a a calling
52:51
SPEAKER_01: to be here like i needed to move here it felt like the right place it felt like
52:56
SPEAKER_01: a some kind of semblance of home that i never experienced before but in terms
53:01
SPEAKER_01: of socially it's not like this is not really where
53:06
SPEAKER_01: my social circles are and where i feel like a sense of belonging with humans i don't
53:11
SPEAKER_01: but i do feel a sense of belonging with the ocean with the trees with the plants
53:16
SPEAKER_01: with the birds with the the earth um and that's been a very difficult journey
53:25
SPEAKER_01: to like kind of open up around but also now that i'm finally seeing things in
53:30
SPEAKER_01: the way i am and things are landing in new ways
53:33
SPEAKER_01: to a huge extent thanks to this project that we've been doing and to julia in a lot
53:38
SPEAKER_01: of ways and to you like everything we've been experimenting with has helped me
53:41
SPEAKER_01: to land in this different connection point in reference to belonging
53:47
SPEAKER_01: because i'm no longer referencing the people i'm actually referencing more nature
53:52
SPEAKER_01: but also now i'm referencing just i belong
53:58
SPEAKER_01: i'm of this life like i belong i have cells in me that are of my dad i have cells
54:06
SPEAKER_01: in me that are of my grandpa but that also means that there's more than just that
54:15
SPEAKER_01: and in a way there's still a part of me that miss not misses but is very curious
54:22
SPEAKER_01: about i i have a longing for the place i come from
54:29
SPEAKER_01: russia is still in me even though i left so early but it's still in me if i see
54:34
SPEAKER_01: a birch tree it has a special place in my system so i have fantasies sometimes
54:43
SPEAKER_01: of what it would be like to put my feet on the earth there the place that i'm
54:48
SPEAKER_01: of too like really of like deeper down
54:56
SPEAKER_01: okay sorry i took over go ahead
55:00
SPEAKER_02: you know i like this um you know how you put it but in different reference points
55:06
SPEAKER_02: and that's how i think it's been for me it's finding reference points
55:12
SPEAKER_02: that um like are bigger and more encompassing the human the human side of things
55:20
SPEAKER_02: because because the human is where it gets really volatile right and it's um
55:28
SPEAKER_02: and
55:30
SPEAKER_02: This is why some developmental maps, human maps that now I really like, they include nature.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: For example in Bill Plotkin's model it has four facets and one of them is the wild one.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: And because the wild, it doesn't care like what it is that you do right?
56:07
SPEAKER_02: Like what it's that you believe in.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: What you've done wrong or what you've
56:12
SPEAKER_02: done in a way that doesn't agree with others.
56:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, the wild just really takes
56:18
SPEAKER_02: you in and it gives you love.
56:23
SPEAKER_02: I think love is what it about.
56:27
SPEAKER_02: love that is unconditional and when you have that experience of being loved and
56:33
SPEAKER_02: for me being held and polin i shared with you i think it's also about being mothered
56:41
SPEAKER_02: some experiences and elements like water or the moon or trees i've had experiences
56:51
SPEAKER_02: where i felt literally like being given motherly energy
56:57
SPEAKER_02: which is just like really being held yeah and and when you have this
57:03
SPEAKER_02: then human belonging
57:08
SPEAKER_02: or how you inhabit human belonging changes and actually for a long time for me
57:14
SPEAKER_02: when i got access to this wild belonging i'm like maybe i don't need
57:22
SPEAKER_02: the human belonging
57:23
SPEAKER_02: at all um well i mean like i do have friends um like i do have people who
57:34
SPEAKER_02: uh some communities where i feel at home in many ways um and it's like and yeah
57:44
SPEAKER_02: that like that exclusion that i described at the beginning started to happen
57:49
SPEAKER_02: where i started like to cut myself off from places and people and situations
57:54
SPEAKER_02: where fine i like i don't like them i don't disagree by by cutting myself off
58:00
SPEAKER_02: of them i'm like i'm
58:05
SPEAKER_02: kind of undermining my own agency and actually i am like shrinking that sense
58:11
SPEAKER_02: of belonging because if i am accepted if i am loved if i am received you know
58:22
SPEAKER_02: by this planet by the earth
58:29
SPEAKER_02: course that extends also to humans and i you know it doesn't mean
58:36
SPEAKER_02: that
58:38
SPEAKER_02: humans are expected to say oh julia you belong with us and you know we love you
58:46
SPEAKER_02: and uh tell us what you're up to like
58:48
SPEAKER_02: with weird stuff you have been doing lately no not at all
58:54
SPEAKER_02: but it's like my posture my posture in how i am
58:59
SPEAKER_02: with other people and in other spaces um you know even if they are not something
59:07
SPEAKER_02: that i consider my spaces or my people
59:15
SPEAKER_01: sometimes i wonder when when we describe
59:18
SPEAKER_01: the wild holding us with love
59:24
SPEAKER_01: i wonder whether we're putting like a human construct on something that's way beyond
59:29
SPEAKER_01: the human construct like it may feel like love to us internally
59:34
SPEAKER_01: because maybe that's how we were receiving it but i wonder if
59:37
SPEAKER_01: the wilderness is really giving us love or is it something else
59:41
SPEAKER_01: and we're just putting a human word on it
59:46
SPEAKER_02: of course we're putting human words on everything right
59:48
SPEAKER_02: because verbalizing stuff we have to come up with words and those words are
59:53
SPEAKER_02: of us humans and words of cause as we have already experienced
1:00:00
SPEAKER_02: in previous episodes they have a constraint and they actually have a lot
1:00:06
SPEAKER_02: of constraints and maybe we don't have the words that we need now we are to change
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: the way we are
1:00:13
SPEAKER_02: yeah um then you know not only words but also the logic of of the language yes
1:00:21
SPEAKER_02: because even the way that we express things is very specific to like how we view
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: the world so yes i'm starting to use to to engage with words as a way of pointing
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: to something that's more energetic or emotional like that it's just a pointer rather
1:00:38
SPEAKER_01: than an actual taken for granted descriptor
1:00:43
SPEAKER_01: um but i also really liked what you brought up about the mothering aspect
1:00:47
SPEAKER_01: the energetics of like when you point to that
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: when you say mothering what what it points to in my system oh that um
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: that really is also one of the anchor points into belonging
1:01:01
SPEAKER_01: for sure like it's um it's a socialization as like this is how we get socialized
1:01:09
SPEAKER_01: into
1:01:10
SPEAKER_01: the human to human belonging right and we've talked about this in other episodes that you
1:01:16
SPEAKER_01: could actually receive mothering from the tree or the moon right like i think you you brought
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: that up yul and that was a really cool exp like expansion for me
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: to consider, oh my gosh
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: maybe mothering doesn't
1:01:28
SPEAKER_01: only belong too
1:01:31
SPEAKER_01: whatever that points to right that word mothering what it points to energetically
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: or emotionally doesn't only belong to the human realm and that is kind of along
1:01:41
SPEAKER_01: the lines of this whole thing we're talking about today like the belonging to life
1:01:45
SPEAKER_01: or of like being of life right not just having a reference point to other humans
1:01:50
SPEAKER_01: so it's almost like it's all part of this this thing we're expanding
1:01:55
SPEAKER_01: into it's really cool
1:01:59
SPEAKER_02: yeah that is an interesting point mothering is a great entry point for humans
1:02:05
SPEAKER_02: who need so much mothering more than any other
1:02:12
SPEAKER_02: animal yes at least mm-hmm
1:02:16
SPEAKER_02: and expanding that yeah
1:02:23
SPEAKER_01: which can lead us to other conversations like that video you shared with me about ai
1:02:27
SPEAKER_01: and that guy talking smack about people using ai ai for support and i agree with him
1:02:33
SPEAKER_01: to a certain extent but then to another extent he's really not considering the fact
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: that a lot of humans didn't get socialized with other humans
1:02:43
SPEAKER_01: the same way he's talking about like as if there's a standard a lot
1:02:47
SPEAKER_01: of us didn't get mothering a lot of us didn't get
1:02:51
SPEAKER_01: um like an entry point into this socialized aspect
1:02:54
SPEAKER_01: where we can feel belong like we're belonging so those of us that are in
1:03:00
SPEAKER_01: that category that are that are feeling very disconnected these days and are finding
1:03:04
SPEAKER_01: a connecting point to ai to talk through things right to to try
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: to normalize their experience um i think that's really underrated
1:03:15
SPEAKER_01: and not being placed in the right context of like what's happening to humanity
1:03:21
SPEAKER_01: but that's a totally other topic sorry yeah that's
1:03:25
SPEAKER_02: a totally other topic i think it's like you know
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: well it's not a totally other topic it's part of it it's part
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: of this conversation it's another aspect right is that why you were
1:03:40
SPEAKER_03: of course you know people using ai to get what they can't get from humans yes
1:03:47
SPEAKER_03: of course it's about the sense of belonging
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: for sure actually thank you yes i thank you for not agreeing
1:03:54
SPEAKER_01: with what i said originally because it's true
1:03:58
SPEAKER_01: now the way we use ai and of course being really um like understanding the dynamics
1:04:05
SPEAKER_01: as we're using ai that matters but making a blanket statement that oh it's not
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: a good idea to use ai because you should be using humans but what
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: if humans are not available and what if those the humans that are struggling haven't
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: yet expanded into i can be mothered by the tree right or i'm of this life
1:04:28
SPEAKER_01: like those are different content those are different frameworks right and
1:04:32
SPEAKER_01: and not everyone has that accessible so thank god there's an in-between step
1:04:38
SPEAKER_02: for some of us that are that need it well that that like that is for me
1:04:44
SPEAKER_02: a different conversation in terms of that like it needs to be more nuanced than
1:04:50
SPEAKER_02: that yeah and the video that you're referring to it's the one that i shared
1:04:56
SPEAKER_02: and where i commented that oia is psychoactive yeah and
1:05:04
SPEAKER_02: so what what's his name anyway i forgot what's his name and so he's talking he's
1:05:14
SPEAKER_02: a philosopher he's a psychologist therapist and he's
1:05:23
SPEAKER_02: saying that lately there have been cases of people
1:05:26
SPEAKER_02: whose attachment system have been hijacked and according to what we know right now
1:05:35
SPEAKER_02: about this cannot be reversed
1:05:40
SPEAKER_01: yeah it's zach stein yeah zach stein i just looked it up yeah yeah yeah yeah by
1:05:46
SPEAKER_02: the way that's like an incredible i i liked it a lot like i also liked it a lot
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: but i also felt like he was taking a lot of the reality of what's happening
1:05:55
SPEAKER_01: with humans right now like really for granted polin
1:06:00
SPEAKER_02: but what would you say uh like some people are coping with lack of
1:06:06
SPEAKER_02: belong lack of acceptance belonging uh human connection
1:06:13
SPEAKER_02: longing by you know
1:06:15
SPEAKER_02: through multiple addictions like alcohol for example you can also i think
1:06:20
SPEAKER_02: if you extend this logic from technology
1:06:23
SPEAKER_02: to yeah alcohol drugs yes it it does bring you um you know moments
1:06:31
SPEAKER_02: when you probably like don't remember maybe feel feel good about it
1:06:36
SPEAKER_02: but what we now know about kind of like ai pretending to be a human that can
1:06:48
SPEAKER_02: create
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: with you an emotional or share with you an emotional bond we know that
1:06:55
SPEAKER_02: for human psyche in the long term according to you know even some research
1:07:01
SPEAKER_02: that anthropic did
1:07:04
SPEAKER_02: it causes them to lose it it causes some people
1:07:07
SPEAKER_02: to like really go become not not well not well to the degree
1:07:14
SPEAKER_02: that they you know it cannot be reversed how many of us become very unwell
1:07:19
SPEAKER_01: when we have a mother or father that are supposed to be one way
1:07:24
SPEAKER_01: or they're making it sound like they're one way but really they're
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: a very different way and they break all of our attachment capacities for the rest
1:07:31
SPEAKER_01: of our lives
1:07:34
SPEAKER_02: that's how we know about attachment because
1:07:36
SPEAKER_02: so many people have this like attachment completely i know but if
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: if ai is used um well right if it's prompted well and and it gives you a sense
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: of like i'm okay like normalizes some of your experiences
1:07:53
SPEAKER_01: or helps you unpack some things that you just don't have other humans available for
1:07:58
SPEAKER_01: that could be very helpful in a world where a lot of us do not have
1:08:03
SPEAKER_01: healthy relationships with other humans or they're just not available but that's
1:08:08
SPEAKER_01: a different conversation it's very nuanced i totally agree on
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: that point ir yeah i think you look here the problem with uh like building
1:08:20
SPEAKER_03: an attachment with ai because you can't find this connection with humans is
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: the same problem as finding this attachment in an abusive relationship
1:08:34
SPEAKER_03: because you're like you you got into this addiction because you think
1:08:38
SPEAKER_03: that you get something from this person that you didn't get from your parent
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: or i agree with you but i'm not saying build an attachment with ai i would never say
1:08:49
SPEAKER_01: that because i that's just inaccurate in my system what i'm saying is ai can be used
1:08:55
SPEAKER_01: to build an attachment to yourself and
1:08:58
SPEAKER_01: to normalize yourself, your experience
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: to help yourself be more self-connected
1:09:04
SPEAKER_01: not to be more attached to AI
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean that would be the opposite of everything
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: I've learned right
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: in psychology and coaching
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: and everything
1:09:14
SPEAKER_03: and i agree with that that it might be possible but for that
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: to become possible one element needs to be present and this is the same element
1:09:24
SPEAKER_03: that allowed us to get out of our frameworks i don't belong here with humans
1:09:31
SPEAKER_03: to i belong with life and this is awareness yes
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: exactly like if you treat any experience with awareness yes this is when you get to
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: the sensation i belong here because i belong with life that's right yeah that is um that
1:09:49
SPEAKER_02: is very true and you know there are of course ways of using ai and even in that video he
1:09:56
SPEAKER_02: names of like behavioral therapy and checking in that all you know he was not saying
1:10:05
SPEAKER_02: ai has no place ai has a place and it's the place is big right but um whether in
1:10:14
SPEAKER_02: the society which is already screwed up to the degree
1:10:19
SPEAKER_02: or there's um too high degree you know
1:10:26
SPEAKER_02: like using ai for this sort
1:10:30
SPEAKER_02: of things i think it requires um
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: a lot of consideration and care and research beforehand
1:10:43
SPEAKER_02: and what happens now is you know like the most unaware people like kids
1:10:49
SPEAKER_02: for example uh teenagers who are said to have like the you know to go
1:10:55
SPEAKER_02: through this crisis of meaning and everything and how you know what the world is
1:11:00
SPEAKER_02: and how they're taken care of
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I remember being a young adult in America as a Russian immigrant
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: and not having anyone to really talk to about things at certain periods
1:11:15
SPEAKER_01: of my life other than my mom.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_01: But it could have been helpful to have a sounding board.
1:11:27
SPEAKER_01: to unpack some things that i was going through to reflect
1:11:31
SPEAKER_01: on let's say american culture versus russian like i don't it could have been helpful
1:11:35
SPEAKER_01: of course with the guidance of more aware and more advanced humans
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: that maybe would help me with like how to engage with ai in the proper way for
1:11:45
SPEAKER_01: the purposes of mental health or you know unpacking things
1:11:49
SPEAKER_01: but i i don't think it's all bad i really think it just matters how you're using it
1:11:56
SPEAKER_02: yeah i mean maybe one day we will have a conversation on that because um i think
1:12:01
SPEAKER_02: we i mean there is a lot to say there and in general about technology
1:12:06
SPEAKER_02: yes that's been on my mind is like what does technology mean for us as humans
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: and also at the beginning of our conversation when um ira pointed out
1:12:18
SPEAKER_01: the distinction between belonging to life or belonging with life.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_01: when that came up i actually was wondering how are we defining life
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: because we also kind of took that for granted as of the word life means
1:12:33
SPEAKER_01: the same thing to all of us
1:12:36
SPEAKER_01: could we maybe do a little bit of uh where do we sit
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: with that word so that we could have a little bit more access points to that
1:12:51
SPEAKER_02: i think for me life means um basically this experience that i go through as a body
1:13:02
SPEAKER_02: in my lifetime and it's kind of like includes me but also the totality
1:13:10
SPEAKER_02: of things probably from like astrological setup and configuration when i was born
1:13:19
SPEAKER_02: and um
1:13:21
SPEAKER_02: the land and my ancestors but you know much more than that so it's like
1:13:34
SPEAKER_02: in this time that i am inhabiting
1:13:43
SPEAKER_02: this universe as a body
1:13:45
SPEAKER_02: or this planet is a body.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_02: The experience.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_01: inhabiting this planet as a body and the experiences that go along
1:13:58
SPEAKER_01: with it yes did i get that right cool okay and you said and much more so
1:14:05
SPEAKER_01: that already means is just a working word like a working definition
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: but really it's not necessarily the same thing that it would mean to someone else
1:14:17
SPEAKER_02: i don't know what it means to someone else basically we just yeah yeah i invite us
1:14:22
SPEAKER_02: to um
1:14:25
SPEAKER_02: when we're yeah done with the defining get back to the conversation
1:14:30
SPEAKER_03: so we can um okay wrap up okay ir what what does life mean to you
1:14:36
SPEAKER_03: a self-regulated system of ever-growing complexity i'm part of
1:14:50
SPEAKER_01: and that system is not necessarily just uh like you the body right
1:14:55
SPEAKER_01: because julia was really referencing the body
1:14:57
SPEAKER_03: but you you mean system like well like i agree with julia in the sense that
1:15:02
SPEAKER_03: for me yeah really the only entry point for relating to the system is
1:15:10
SPEAKER_03: through my experience
1:15:14
SPEAKER_03: in this life in the body maybe you like when i go to
1:15:19
SPEAKER_03: the spirits realm you like my experience will be different but you like in this life
1:15:26
SPEAKER_03: the only possibility for me to interact with life is through my experiences
1:15:32
SPEAKER_03: from my embodied experiences
1:15:38
SPEAKER_00: mm-hmm
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: okay
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: thank you and and my mind my mind also forms parts
1:15:49
SPEAKER_03: of my embodied experiences you're saying that as of
1:15:53
SPEAKER_01: the mind is actually not necessarily of the body
1:15:57
SPEAKER_03: so you're do you mean something no yeah no i'm just like i'm pointing out
1:16:01
SPEAKER_03: for me it it forms parts of my embodied experiences
1:16:07
SPEAKER_03: but it's almost like a bit of a separate more new i just i well because we tend
1:16:13
SPEAKER_03: to separate the mind and the body so i want to bring them together so i wanted
1:16:19
SPEAKER_03: to point out that you like all my imaginations all when i go to the realms
1:16:25
SPEAKER_03: of mentality and mental it's still the part of my embodied experience
1:16:34
SPEAKER_01: thank you okay
1:16:39
SPEAKER_01: what's life for you i don't i'm not sure because i haven't really had to think
1:16:44
SPEAKER_01: about it that way until it came up now so like just quickly so we can move
1:16:49
SPEAKER_01: on i'll say uh
1:16:52
SPEAKER_01: life
1:16:56
SPEAKER_01: i don't know i think life is a a
1:17:00
SPEAKER_01: time and space
1:17:02
SPEAKER_01: which is not set i
1:17:07
SPEAKER_01: an energetic pulse frequency that is expressed in a variety of different ways one of
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: which being yes this body but it's also
1:17:23
SPEAKER_01: expressed in a lot
1:17:25
SPEAKER_01: of different ways i don't know if i reference life
1:17:28
SPEAKER_01: from body out i think i reference it more as like okay it's like a mesh
1:17:34
SPEAKER_01: it's a whole mesh of nodes things are happening there's a maybe time
1:17:39
SPEAKER_01: and space maybe not time and space or like in the way we understand it
1:17:43
SPEAKER_01: but it's all energetically based and yes the body is one of the instruments through
1:17:48
SPEAKER_01: which i get to relate and experience it but it's it's more than that for me
1:17:56
SPEAKER_02: the body is an instrument that's my favorite part i'm sure it's not
1:18:05
SPEAKER_00: it's a biological instrument
1:18:11
SPEAKER_02: you better know not at all not
1:18:13
SPEAKER_02: at all i i think you know technology has to be a topic that i bring in
1:18:20
SPEAKER_02: because there is a lot to discuss okay you know
1:18:27
SPEAKER_02: yeah so i did have quite a few questions besides the first one and yet that was
1:18:34
SPEAKER_02: the question that um we were with which is totally fine thank you very much also
1:18:41
SPEAKER_02: for like the tours that we took um let me ask you
1:18:50
SPEAKER_02: to wrap things up
1:18:55
SPEAKER_02: um
1:18:58
SPEAKER_02: what what is what is it that is staying with you um maybe as a question
1:19:05
SPEAKER_02: that you're taking for yourself or is something that had some resonance
1:19:18
SPEAKER_03: i don't have questions but i have a conclusion that i come to periodically
1:19:23
SPEAKER_03: in uh our episodes and in all our project that girls i belong with you oh i love
1:19:33
SPEAKER_01: that i also feel that we accept that thank you i feel this
1:19:42
SPEAKER_01: i'm actually honored
1:19:43
SPEAKER_01: that you feel that way i i
1:19:47
SPEAKER_01: i actually feel like honored by that i don't want to skip
1:19:51
SPEAKER_01: over it it's um it is sacred and it's significant thank you
1:20:00
SPEAKER_01: i feel honored by both
1:20:02
SPEAKER_01: of you being wanting to register in the space and time together
1:20:10
SPEAKER_02: i find this group
1:20:11
SPEAKER_02: a very special group yes
1:20:15
SPEAKER_02: um yeah i don't know if i have other groups where i can like feel
1:20:21
SPEAKER_02: that like
1:20:24
SPEAKER_02: in all different shapes and forms uh i still get to be seen and still get to belong
1:20:32
SPEAKER_01: so even when there's resistance
1:20:42
SPEAKER_02: especially when there is resistance especially
1:20:45
SPEAKER_02: when there is resistance um
1:20:51
SPEAKER_01: i am walking away with actually gratitude
1:20:54
SPEAKER_01: that we slowed it down today and there was space
1:21:00
SPEAKER_01: to go deeper um i didn't feel like we ventured off topic i actually feel like we
1:21:06
SPEAKER_01: went deeper into the first question in all of its different um
1:21:12
SPEAKER_01: flavors and um i know we didn't get two more questions but i actually felt grateful
1:21:19
SPEAKER_01: for the deepening uh the different distinctions they came up us engaging
1:21:23
SPEAKER_01: with them um
1:21:27
SPEAKER_01: i really appreciate it and i feel like there's a lot more
1:21:31
SPEAKER_01: that we we can play with and explore together so i'm looking forward to part two
1:21:36
SPEAKER_01: and you leading that jul
1:21:41
SPEAKER_02: yes i'm that happens to me that at the end of
1:21:44
SPEAKER_02: the episodes i'm saying yeah let's do part two but then um a month later when i get
1:21:52
SPEAKER_02: to facilitate again my interest
1:21:56
SPEAKER_02: and energy is somewhere else whenever it strikes whenever the the spirit strikes you
1:22:06
SPEAKER_03: we go by spiral so like someday the spiral will come back to this question
1:22:11
SPEAKER_02: at another level it probably will probably will um but i do i do appreciate some of
1:22:17
SPEAKER_01: the things that we we synthesize together like
1:22:20
SPEAKER_01: for me i felt some synthesizing moments today on this topic which is
1:22:24
SPEAKER_01: a very important topic is i think one of the most important um
1:22:28
SPEAKER_01: and relevant um yeah how about you you yeah i um
1:22:39
SPEAKER_02: i really appreciate also i appreciate the space i wanted to get a better feel for
1:22:45
SPEAKER_02: for belonging belonging in this expanded form belonging with life and i got
1:22:54
SPEAKER_02: that i like getting goosebumps so i wanted to become more familiar with it
1:23:01
SPEAKER_02: so that i can inhabit it with more ease and you like at the beginning going
1:23:09
SPEAKER_02: through different examples and and stories uh that created a lot for me well and
1:23:19
SPEAKER_02: the whole discussion after that so it's like this um the state or the signature
1:23:27
SPEAKER_02: of belonging feels more familiar
1:23:33
SPEAKER_01: cool i actually want more of that state and signature maybe for me
1:23:40
SPEAKER_01: the synthesizing was a little bit more conceptual today and less like embodied now
1:23:46
SPEAKER_01: that you're saying that and you're pointing to your experience i want more of
1:23:49
SPEAKER_01: that too so i let's let's do more on this topic let's do more of belonging
1:23:58
SPEAKER_01: it wasn't more of an embodied experience for you today like for you or was it
1:24:02
SPEAKER_01: a bit more conceptual like for me or something else
1:24:12
SPEAKER_03: just
1:24:15
SPEAKER_03: i would say the feeling
1:24:17
SPEAKER_03: the resonance
1:24:20
SPEAKER_03: uh with the experiences we shared and our interpretation
1:24:24
SPEAKER_03: of those experience was accentuating the embodied feeling of belonging yes thank you
1:24:34
SPEAKER_01: for putting into words a part of my experience as well and i wasn't able to put
1:24:38
SPEAKER_01: into words so yes to that i agree and that's all oh that's all okay cool thank you
1:24:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I suggest then that we finish this conversation and we're gonna do this
1:24:58
SPEAKER_02: with my sound pole.
1:25:04
SPEAKER_02: thank you everyone for tuning in and as always we would be super excited to
1:25:13
SPEAKER_02: we would be delighted, we would
1:25:17
SPEAKER_02: be pleased
1:25:18
SPEAKER_02: we would
1:25:20
SPEAKER_02: appreciate it to hear from you and if you have anything
1:25:26
SPEAKER_02: to share
1:25:29
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1:25:47
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1:25:50
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1:25:55
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1:26:02
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1:26:25
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