Latest / Empower Your Menopause / Episode 78: Managing Mom Guilt - Balancing Caregiving with Self-Care

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Episode 78: Managing Mom Guilt - Balancing Caregiving with Self-Care · Empower Your Menopause

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast all about health, happiness, and hormones for women 40 and beyond.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Coach James Ellis.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Coach Julie Medesi.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And together we are fabulous beyond 40, and we're really glad to have you with us again for an episode that I think is really important.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Julie.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a working mom over 40 and you've ever felt guilty for working, guilty for not working, guilty for snapping, guilty for needing just 10 minutes alone sometime.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, your guilt system is operating exactly as it's been designed.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Your stress tolerance can shrink.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sleep is getting messier.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times we find that the same mental load we've been carrying feels like it weighs twice as much.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So before we go forward in this episode, we want to be very clear about a couple of things.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a mum, so I'm not going to pretend that I understand the lived experience firsthand, but I do understand caregiver guilt based on firsthand experience and the mental load spiral and the way menopause can totally amplify everything.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and obviously I'm a dad, not a mum, but I'm lucky enough to get a front row seat to just how brutal standards can be.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I live that daily reality of parenting with my wife Laura all the time, and our two kids, Martha and Gracie, 15-year-old twins.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: As you can imagine, it's quite a busy household.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we're coming at this with some humility and a lot of respect, as well as experience in coaching many of our clients through this point of life.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, Julie, why don't we start off by getting a better steer and a kind of a definition of what mum guilt is and why it becomes so sticky for women at this kind of life?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, because we hear this from a lot of our clients.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, guilt is a signal that comes from us, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a judgment, it's not a verdict.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it might be our own judgment, but mum guilt, what we're calling mum guilt, is often something that's very values-based, right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: You care deeply and you combine that with impossible standards because what do we hear all the time?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it all.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it perfectly.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it with a big smile on my face, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that gets fueled by this invisible list that's running in your head that we call the mental load, that again feels a lot heavier in paramenopause.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have role overload.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're dealing with work and you're dealing with home and you're dealing with kids and communities and schools and aging parents.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot going on in your life.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then you add in all of the social comparison, right?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: That neighbor, that sister, that social media person who seems to have it all together.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we have this comparison itis that we deal with, and we keep pushing ourselves toward perfectionism that just isn't realistic.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and obviously the problem is not that a woman cares at this time in life.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, who you're caring for your family is obviously a huge virtue.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose the problem up to a point is that women end up getting sold this, if you like, job description that requires you to be able to manage life as if you're two or three people, or you're doing the work of two or three people all at the same time, and all at the same time.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then you layer in menopause as well, and that can crank this guilt up to sort of like as Spinal Tap used to say, for anybody who's watched that old movie, you know, crank it up to 11 because 10 is not enough, right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you've got the sleep disruption, the mood changes, and they reduce your resilience and your patience, you know, brain fog and those wobbles of executive function, they can make that idea of trying to keep all the plates spinning all the time much, much harder.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the sort of like downside of it is also that when you're so depleted, you're more likely to interpret what would otherwise be considered to be normal boundaries as selfishness.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And let's face it, you know, when your nervous system is already running hot, all emotions and especially guilt they get turned up at least that extra notch past um past 10.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So different types of mum guilt that we've identified, Julie.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about what some of these are and let's see if some of our listeners can't actually identify with these somewhat.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we really have drawn these right from our experience with our clients.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because the first big one, this is, I think, the biggest, is time guilt, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Never doing enough.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow we think we're supposed to be able to squeeze more into our days as if we can have more hours available.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: But we're already doing many times more in our daily life than our previous generations did because the expectations just continue to expand.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got some classic triggers, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, travel, deadlines, screen time, saying no.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it, you've got the school run, and then you've got to drive your kids to sports and social activities or whatever else they're involved in.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've got your own work commute, you've got doctor's appointments for you and anybody else in the household, parent-teacher conferences, veterinary appointments, shopping, cleaning, and all of the other things.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, is it any wonder that you feel like you're constantly short on time?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a big thing.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: The second one, it is huge, huge.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And time is our most precious commodity because we can't ever get it back.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Emotion guilt is the second type.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we feel like I'm failing because maybe you're feeling more irritable.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of women in paramenopause and menopause actually get kind of ragey.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's normal symptom.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you feel numb, you're just numbed out by it all, or you feel like you're no fun anymore, because it's just all this pressure has kind of sapped the life out of you.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we can we can look at this as it directly ties to the hormonal changes that you experience.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when you add in the fact that you're not getting as much restful sleep, that puts the hormones into a whole other category because everything we do, everything our bodies need to do, needs restful sleep in order to function optimally.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's when our body stores memories, it's when our body cleans and does maintenance work, and it's when our body builds the hormones we need to keep our to keep them running.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so when sleep gets disrupted, hormones get disrupted even more, and that just kind of snowballs the whole the whole thing.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then we look at identity guilt, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have this, we have this image of what we're supposed to be as parents and or caregivers, but there's no manual for this stuff.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of women didn't necessarily even have the best role models to go by.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look at all the stuff you see in TV programs and movies and now on social media, writing the influences, and there's all this pressure to conform to whatever perfect parenting happens to be at the moment, and it's all a fallacy.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Every family's different, kids are different, parents have different workloads, different capacity.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So let's be clear.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: All you amazing moms and and and dads, but all you amazing moms out there are doing the best you can with basically zero guidance.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I call that amazing.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Will you always get it 100% right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's 100% okay because you learn from every experience that you have.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when when something else, and I I'm pretty sure, James, you can relate to this right now, that a lot of this stuff peaks when the kids need you differently through their teen years and their bodies are changing, or when you're parenting up because your parents are maybe suffering from some illnesses and they need care too.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of added pressure there.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, there weren't any instructions anywhere for doing this.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you throw a peramenopause into the mix, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, I think one point to remember is that teens don't really need you less, they just need you differently, and that shift can probably be really challenging to navigate.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, James, you want to walk us through a few solutions?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because we do have a toolkit to share.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just before we do that, I think the thing about parenting teens is particularly challenging, and I see it a lot amongst both our clients and amongst our family and friends as well.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to somebody about it the other day, a friend of mine.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: She's got a kid who's her daughter's a year younger than than than than my two, same school, and somebody's described that sort of like mid-teen area, particularly amongst young girls, when they're relating to their mum.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So mum's going through perimenopause or menopause, the kids are going through their own hormonal changes, which obviously causes quite a lot of friction.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody described it as the fuck you, I love you um conundrum.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: In that one minute they're telling you how much they hate you, how much you're not giving them enough screen time, layering on the guilt, why can't you come pick me up?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't you do this?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But so they're trying to exert some kind of independence, the kids are on the mum at that point, but then the flip side is that they aren't quite emotionally ready to just totally let go, and so that flips really, really quickly into I love you.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, on the one hand, they're saying stay away, I don't need you, but on the other hand, they're saying, Come on, give me lots of love.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for a mum, that can be quite confusing, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your kids on the whole, when they're toddlers or up to sort of like 10, 11, they tend to be a lot more, it's probably not the right word, but I'm gonna put it in inverted commas, air quotes for anybody who's watching this on video.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: They tend to be a little bit more compliant with your wishes and they tend to listen to you more as the authority figure.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Once they start challenging you, I think that's when a lot of these things come in.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just a bit of a parenthesis.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So you asked me about sort of like toolkits and some of the things that we work through with our clients.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, tool number one is something that we call sort of the guilt guilt audit.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, kind of ask yourself three questions when this is coming up for you, and maybe do a bit of journaling on it as well to help out.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, what exactly am I feeling about whatever's going on?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And just keep that to one sentence as much as possible, and then what is the value that underpins that feeling of guilt?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Where is it really coming from?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is it coming from a place of love?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is it coming from a place of safety for you and the family?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it ambition?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is it being present?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then number three, so step three is think of a tiny action that can work towards an honour that value without burning you down.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So three things there, three steps in the guilt audit.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this works a little bit because it kind of gives you an option to change the guilt, which is the emotion, into data.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it stops being about identity, it becomes more about something that you can actually try and assess and try and and and see where it's coming from.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is something that we call the self-compassion reframe.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, we aren't therapists and we don't do therapy, but the truth is that you need some tools and support at this time.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if self-compassion gets talked about a lot, and we all tend to be more aware of it now in 2026.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: But how many people actually talk it and how many people do it is a question that I would invite people, anybody who's listening to this now and thinking, oh god, they're going to talk about self-compassion again.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'd invite you to just have a foot think about that and see whether you are actually self-compassionate all the time.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because really, self-compassion is linked to healthier coping with guilt and better health behaviours in general, but also particularly in mothers, I think.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's worth saying that it's 100% okay to get the support you need for your needs.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you might want to work think about working with a coach or a therapist, someone who can help you learn to support yourself is gonna make you much more available for others and give you the best chance of actually not just talking about self-compassion, not just learning about it, but actually implementing it, and that allows you to become a better version of yourself, and you know, truly, yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: If your friend came to you talking to you, this is a little bit of a reframe for anybody who's thinking about this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: If your best friend came to you talking about how guilty she feels all the time, would you call her a terrible mum?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or would you tell her that she's just exhausted and needs some support from somewhere?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, just as a parenthesis, that doesn't mean dive in and offer your own support, which I'm sure is a natural thing to do, but that might actually load you up even more.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it might be a good idea to help guide your friend towards some actual support that comes from a professional in that case.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've got something um called the boundary sentence bank.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So setting boundaries is one of the most important skills anyone can learn, but particularly at this stage of life, and particularly if you're a busy mum who's got the work, who's got the kids, who's got the partner, who's got the parents who are getting older, who's got the friends, who's got all those competing demands, having some simple ways to remind yourself that choosing your own boundaries is absolutely not just something you should do, but it's okay to do.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So here are a few that you can think about.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, I can do anything, but I can't do everything, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that by saying that you can't do everything, it doesn't mean that you're worthless, it just means that you're at capacity.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't stop you from saying, I could I could actually do that if I had the time, space, and inclination to do it, but it allows you to say to yourself, you know, I can't do the whole lot because I'm already full.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're already full, you know, we need to be looking at ways to discharge some of these commitments rather than increasing them further.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I also think it's important as well to think this is a period that you're gonna go through, so it's a season, not a standard, that you have to adhere to forever.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really important.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing something that is right for you right now because those boundaries work for you right now.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So remember that doesn't have to be something that you're gonna put in place and will last forever.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be something that gets you through this actual period of time that you're potentially struggling with.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Saying no is obviously a huge, huge challenge when it comes challenge when it comes to mum gilt, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Julie, you always say no is actually a complete sentence.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're saying no something that doesn't uh serve you at this particular time, the only reason you're doing that is to protect the yeses that matter, and they're really, really important because the stuff that you say yes to has to be in important for you, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then number one, just a simple little mantra.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sorry, number four, a simple little mantra.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not available for any guilt-based decision making today.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a really nice one to just say to yourself, I'm gonna make some choices today, but they aren't gonna be based on how guilty I'm actually finding it.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've got a 15-minute repair for when things don't actually go brilliantly.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because guilt more often than not, the thing that I see both in the family and in clients is that it comes from something that is rupturous.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you've snapped, you've forgotten something, you're rushing around to do something.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's often nice to have a little script for actually addressing that and trying to build the bridges back to stop you from feeling guilty, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So name it, you know, I was short earlier, I forgot something earlier, I rushed and something else happened.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Own it, you know, it is on us at the end of the day.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's nice to be self-compassionate and stuff like that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we've got to also take some kind of responsibility for our own reactions.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be a connection back with the person where the ruptures happen, so you know, maybe just something like you didn't deserve that, and then reset things.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, let's start again.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm gonna take a few minutes so I can come back, calmer, whatever it may be, and that is a really good way of repairing some of those guilt, guilty feelings if you've snapped or you've rushed or you've had an argument with one of the kids or your partner or whatever it may be.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, because I know this is quite a long section, let's think about when it comes to self-care.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is the actual, as Julie says, BAM?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: What is your bare ass minimum that you can do when it comes to self-care?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to have it, but it has to fit into an already busy lifestyle.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, some really simple things you're probably gonna say, they're talking about the same stuff again, but you know, it is important to remember 10-15-minute walk or a quick 15-minute burst of exercise, bit of a strength snack, is great.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't, you don't have to go and hammer yourself in the gym for 55 minutes or an hour, or go for a run for an hour and a half to actually get some self-caring when it comes to your exercise.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Protein at all meals, so trying to get as much protein as you can, particularly early in the day, breakfast and lunch.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to the end of the day, you know, let's get lights down and screen boundaries in place.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: They're really, really simple things that you can employ that will help reduce some of the tension, and then finally, hydration and some electrolytes.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you feel that Steed, it's important to remember that when it comes to self-care, we try not to add to the two to-do list, we're trying to reduce the stuff that actually drains you.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, some really hopefully helpful tools for you there, Julie.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you know, let's let's say if if we've hit a nerve, I you know, with this episode, I I kind of hope we have, because I want you to be able to identify with what we're saying.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, self-care looks like a lot of different things, and it's gonna look different from day to day.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if this is a feeling a little bit raw for you, it's because you're already carrying too much, right?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're not meant to solve menopause, we're caregiving, child rearing, household, all of this stuff, you're not meant to solve it alone.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that we've done, we're very excited about, is that we've created um an event called the Mother of All Menopause Summits.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to address these very specific things.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it runs February 11th through the 13th, um, 2026, this year while we're recording.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's built specifically for busy career moms, business moms who need realistic strategies.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's free to register, and that free ticket will get you 48 hours access to all of the presentations.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: We've got over 20 speakers.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Presentations are short.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can pick and choose the ones that you want to watch and schedule watching them around your busy life.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also going to be some community support and some really great bonus elements as well.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: There is an upgrade option called the Menopause Momentum Power Pack, which includes early and extended access to the presentations, plus a whole bunch of really practical extras like notes and transcripts, audio versions of the presentation so you can listen on the go, a daily live QA just for um Moment Power Pack holders.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It also includes a free month in our Club Fabulous Beyond 40 coaching program, which is very exciting, along with some fabulous bonuses that are um provided by our speakers.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say as well, blowing our own trumpet a little bit, it's taken a lot of thought and a lot of effort to pull together the coaches that are speaking at the summit.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because most of the sessions are pre-recorded, and that is one of the benefits of the power pack.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you think that you're going to be challenged over those three days to watch four, five, twenty-minute presentations, you can get access to 90% of them also right now.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But as an aside, I've been listening to some of the presentations that our speakers have sent in, and they are absolutely phenomenal.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you can think of this in two ways, really.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can borrow numerous brains and a really good working plan for three days, and that's going to stop you from Googling at midnight.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you want to jump in early, and I'd recommend you do because you will get long-term and early access.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you can watch all the pre-recorded stuff before the summit, and then if need be, focus on the live sessions because the live session is going to be really tasty too, because there are going to be some live coaching in those.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So really, really good.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there you go.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Mother of all menopause summits.com.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget the all access pass that menopause momentum power pack is available after you sign up.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like a deal for the 30 minutes after you sign up, you're going to get the best price possible for that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if you like this podcast, don't forget to like, share, review it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you know anybody who you think should potentially jump in for the summit, motherofallmenopause summits.com.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: We'll put that link in the show notes as well so you can pass it on to any friends because winners run in packs, and it's always better if you've got an accountability buddy when you're doing these kind of things.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or you can jump into the Facebook group, which is already really busy with people already chatting and talking to each other, and you can actually uh start working on accountability with somebody else who's already in the summit who you maybe have never met before.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you could make a new friend while you're doing it too.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it for this episode, then.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're coaches James and Julia, fabulous beyond forty.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: We managed to stay strong, stay fabulous, and we will see you next time.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.