Latest / Camp Classics / Drop Dead Gorgeous (1999)

Transcript

Drop Dead Gorgeous (1999) · Camp Classics

• 0:00
  Get away from her you bitch. Classic.
• 0:05
  He was in the Amazon cry along when she was researching spiders
• 0:09
  right before she died. No, I thought you could call a
• 0:16
  prostitute or a. Dog at it.
• 0:18
  I used to love doggy chow. I used to love doggy chow too.
• 0:24
  I feel like we've got the same one, so should we do it at the
• 0:27
  same time? OK.
• 0:28
  Yeah. Lights, camera and me without a
• 0:33
  stitch of makeup on. Oh God, we're OK.
• 0:39
  There's so many fucking ones to go in this, but that had to be
• 0:42
  had. To be the one I'm Crystal.
• 0:44
  And I'm baby name. Welcome to camp.
• 0:46
  Classic. A thoughtful podcast about
• 0:48
  stupid movies. Every two weeks we're here
• 0:52
  discussing queer movies and why queer people love them and.
• 0:55
  Do you know what? I'm glad that we've got you
• 0:57
  because you're always doing these kind of like news spots,
• 1:00
  You know, you're really into your activism and stuff.
• 1:02
  And I think that's great and I love that for you.
• 1:04
  But I just, I think it's a bit lightweight and I think what I
• 1:07
  need from you is some actual serious dissection.
• 1:12
  Yeah, not too serious. We don't want to get Michael
• 1:14
  Bailenson angry. Oh, sorry, yeah.
• 1:17
  Gotta keep it light. Because I was thinking maybe we
• 1:19
  could change the name of the podcast to something like.
• 1:22
  Woke alert Yeah to woke gays. Being woke.
• 1:28
  Oh God, this movie would not pass the.
• 1:30
  Test we are Well, there goes your social life.
• 1:35
  We do have a new five star Apple review from Caitlin.
• 1:39
  I think it's Caitlin, they say. I love this podcast.
• 1:42
  It's funny, expands my cultural horizons and it taught me the
• 1:45
  science behind how candles work. That's what we're here for.
• 1:50
  Because I do like this sort of scientific element as well that
• 1:53
  we bring to this podcast. Yeah, I.
• 1:54
  Wonder if we'll get into any science today how pork products
• 1:58
  are made. I've been enjoying Saint Paul
• 2:00
  pork products for years. Oh yeah, someone else sent us a
• 2:04
  message as well. I don't know if you saw this on
• 2:06
  Instagram. Goonstruck and message us going.
• 2:10
  Thank you so much for being my guides through a six hour drive.
• 2:13
  I cannot wait to see what you cover next.
• 2:16
  Imagine. Listen, Ducks is 6 hours.
• 2:20
  Oh, that's quite a lot of pressure.
• 2:21
  Bit of pressure. Do you know what?
• 2:25
  If I was listening to us for six hours, I literally, I think I
• 2:27
  just turned. On Louise.
• 2:28
  Yeah, just come off the side. Yeah, just be done.
• 2:31
  Yeah, just into the blue. Let's keep.
• 2:35
  Going I'm glad that we could like keep you awake, God.
• 2:39
  I wonder. I know I should be saying this,
• 2:42
  but you know, you do have other options to look at other things.
• 2:44
  We're not the only podcast that's available, but.
• 2:46
  No, we are the only podcast, the original podcast, and definitely
• 2:50
  the only podcast where gay people talk about movies.
• 2:53
  I've noticed that as well, there's no one else doing it.
• 2:55
  Yeah, gosh, new boundaries finally breaking new ground.
• 2:59
  We also have a gay tree on if you, I mean if you've exhausted
• 3:02
  the main feed and you do need some more content for your next
• 3:05
  long distance. Road and savvy with it now
• 3:07
  because we're putting the good ones behind.
• 3:09
  The right Yeah, the latest episode was on Batman Returns.
• 3:13
  Meow, which is quite a highly requested fun for us to cover
• 3:18
  00. Did we do that?
• 3:22
  Yeah, it's only £4 a month and you can get a free trial and you
• 3:26
  can binge them all and then cancel.
• 3:28
  That's like a hookup, isn't it? And then ghosting.
• 3:30
  Yeah. So come over, fuck us, rule,
• 3:33
  talk us, leave and then block. I think if you're listening to
• 3:38
  our podcast, you're the one getting fucked, especially if
• 3:43
  you're paying for it. Boo, you whore.
• 3:47
  But you can be like new members Coleman, Rhydian and Juniper.
• 3:52
  Oh, I know that classy list of new subscribers.
• 3:57
  Finally, but. Kind of sounds like, yeah, this
• 4:00
  maybe like a stuff you'd put in a witch's potion.
• 4:03
  Coleman. Riddian Juniper.
• 4:05
  Something your mum would send you?
• 4:07
  A Christmas present. Stained panties.
• 4:12
  I can't wait to hear what you get this year.
• 4:15
  I also thought because this this is coming out the new year, it's
• 4:18
  we're recording pre Christmas, but it's coming out in the new
• 4:20
  year, I thought we could remind ourselves of all the movies
• 4:23
  we've given 10 Lies as to just great.
• 4:25
  Yeah. Just to see, you know, if we
• 4:27
  still stand by everything, the top scoring in terms of like
• 4:32
  Merrill's analyzers was Kerry 10, Lizers 9.
• 4:35
  Merrill's stand by that. Only 9 Merrill's.
• 4:39
  Only 9. Yeah, OK.
• 4:42
  I just we're hard on this that we. 9 is an amazing score.
• 4:47
  It's not ten, though. Then it's Mommy Dearest with 10
• 4:53
  Lizers and 6 1/2 Merrill's. Yeah, fair.
• 4:57
  Elvira 5 Merrills Yeah, yeah. And then I know who killed me. 4
• 5:03
  Merrills. Surprising.
• 5:05
  And then? Yeah.
• 5:06
  Why did that get 4 Merrills? Yeah.
• 5:09
  And then going into like our perfect score territory, we've
• 5:12
  got barbed wire, and Batman and Robin both got 1, Merrill, 10
• 5:16
  lizes. Stand by that.
• 5:17
  Yeah, and Supergirl got 0 Merrills.
• 5:22
  So if you're looking for a movie to watch, the campus of Camp
• 5:26
  Classics apparently is Supergirl.
• 5:28
  I would say it's up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 5:31
  But also, I think that's a very good like list, a digestible
• 5:35
  list for people to watch. Yeah, if you're looking for some
• 5:38
  January watches, you know. No money.
• 5:41
  Yeah, this is a great, great place to start.
• 5:45
  But let's see if we can find another camp classic today.
• 5:49
  Do you want to introduce the next segment?
• 5:52
  Welcome to our next segment and a new segment for 2026.
• 5:56
  It is the suggestion sack. That's why we have a big old
• 6:00
  sack full of all of your requests that you keep on D Ming
• 6:04
  us. It's a sack full of things like
• 6:06
  spice world, mainly spice world, spice world and once a month
• 6:11
  we're going to be emptying the sack.
• 6:16
  Having a good rummage around in the.
• 6:18
  Sack draining the sack and really sort of just like working
• 6:25
  the sack until there's nothing left in it to reveal one of your
• 6:30
  picks That's right you will finally get to decide what we
• 6:33
  talk about on the podcast and so is it the time to.
• 6:37
  Yeah, it's time to drain the sack.
• 6:40
  Which will mean there needs to be sound effects like that, OK?
• 6:44
  I'm just going to. I'm just.
• 6:47
  Going to it's my first time entering the sack.
• 6:51
  My sack, anyway. Yeah, don't really enter a sack,
• 6:54
  but sure, let's go with it. So I'm going to be gentle, just
• 6:57
  the one finger at the moment, OK, Are you ready?
• 7:03
  The first suggestion sack pig is notes on a scandal.
• 7:09
  Oh, Michael, I'm happy with that.
• 7:11
  Me too. I don't.
• 7:12
  I'm not sure I've seen it all the way through.
• 7:14
  I've heard lots of batshit crazy about DO.
• 7:17
  You want to fuck me, Barbara? Right.
• 7:19
  I mean it's. You want to roll around on the
• 7:21
  floor like lovers? OK, clearly we've got a fan in
• 7:24
  the room. Oh great, lovely.
• 7:26
  So yes. So please message in with more
• 7:28
  of your options and we will be putting them all in the
• 7:31
  suggestion suggestion sack until the sack is overflowing.
• 7:35
  I'm just going to say Woke Alert though.
• 7:36
  That movie contains a lot of child sexual abuse.
• 7:41
  OK. But it's kind of camp.
• 7:46
  Yeah, sure. Love it.
• 7:48
  Great woo. Hoo, OK, so I guess we're maybe
• 7:51
  we're covering that next or or near to next and also baby.
• 7:54
  Name suggestion Sack. I'm like, oh.
• 7:58
  We'll workshop it but. We've got to stick with it.
• 8:00
  Now it's like it's Brandy. Baby.
• 8:06
  Before we go any further though, what makes a camp classic?
• 8:09
  Well, a camp classic is something that unlocks queer
• 8:12
  joys, in the words of the icon herself.
• 8:17
  I want to get a wedding. It needs to be stupid.
• 8:20
  We want something with an ongoing legacy and something
• 8:22
  that informs queer pop culture. And ultimately it should be anti
• 8:26
  mainstream with underdog plot vibes that's been reclaimed by
• 8:29
  the big old benders. And today we are covering 1999's
• 8:35
  Drop Dead Gorgeous. I'm so excited.
• 8:42
  Yeah, tell me what is. I mean, I'll let you just, I'll
• 8:46
  let you just go on. Tell me about this movie.
• 8:49
  Why is this movie important to you?
• 8:51
  Well, there's quite a few reasons.
• 8:53
  I have a tattoo of Denise Richards on my arm, so who knows
• 8:58
  how I'm going to feel about the movie.
• 8:59
  I was just doing OK, crazy kooky, you know, just went into
• 9:03
  the parlour and I looked in the book and then I was like, wow,
• 9:06
  it just landed on Drop Dead Gorgeous.
• 9:08
  OK, I'll get a tattoo of her. No, I was thinking about this
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  and I actually, this film links to like my first ever sexual
• 9:17
  interaction. Oh yeah.
• 9:20
  And I was like, oh, that's the memory.
• 9:23
  Oh yeah, because you got railed by that exploding swan.
• 9:27
  That's how you lost your virginity to a swan.
• 9:30
  No, but I was. I was actually 15 years old.
• 9:33
  Don't worry, we're not going. Notes on the scandal.
• 9:35
  You're not. Young.
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  I went to see it in like a cinema in Brighton that was like
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  a bit out of the way. It was kind of, it's Brighton
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  Marina. And near there's, there's like a
• 9:47
  notorious cruising ground called the Bushes, which is by the
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  nudist beach. And I remember going to see this
• 9:53
  movie with like some friends and like, you have to get like this
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  little train from the nudist beach to go back into Brighton.
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  And like, so that's what we did to get there.
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  And they were like, oh, come on, let's go.
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  And then I was like, Oh, no, I'm, I want to walk.
• 10:08
  And I didn't want to walk. I wanted to explore the, the
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  cruising ground. So I watched the film, loved it,
• 10:13
  and then went into this like the bushes and was just like stood
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  there and I just, it was the first time I'd been like
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  cruised. Molly, you in danger, girl?
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  It was hot, but because I was sweating and like because I was
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  15, I didn't know what I was doing.
• 10:28
  So I just stood there like like a very thick like weirdo.
• 10:32
  And I remember this guy with a bike.
• 10:35
  He walked past me with his bike and then like rubbed the bike
• 10:38
  handle across my Dick and I just was like, I don't know what I'm
• 10:42
  doing. And that was it.
• 10:44
  I didn't do anything you. Didn't do anything.
• 10:46
  No, I just stood there and then she was just like, is this guy?
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  Is getting a handlebar pressed against your penis.
• 10:53
  It's my fan. Sexually smooth.
• 10:55
  Am I saying now? Oh, and that explains why you
• 10:58
  can't bike anymore. Because yeah.
• 11:00
  I'm bikes. Yeah, you get too hard.
• 11:04
  Get wildly hard in ejaculate. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:07
  It's not anatomy. Like, wow, that's, that's really
• 11:11
  funny. Also quite brave.
• 11:12
  I wouldn't have been that brave at 15.
• 11:14
  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether it was just
• 11:15
  watching the movie kind of got me feeling away, which would be
• 11:18
  weird, but. Yes, it would.
• 11:20
  All those teen girls. Yeah, it's yeah.
• 11:24
  So it's just, it has nothing to do with my love for the film,
• 11:26
  but. So you saw this in cinema?
• 11:28
  Yeah. Cute, what about you?
• 11:30
  I don't think I saw it until much later.
• 11:33
  I love it though, I've seen it many times.
• 11:35
  Great movie. Yeah, it like genuinely sort of
• 11:39
  transformed my life lots of ways.
• 11:41
  I just, I don't know, I just think like, I mean, I don't want
• 11:45
  to get to the end of the podcast at the beginning, but like it's
• 11:48
  just it unlocked like a lot of like kind of the way I kind of
• 11:52
  see the world humor wise. Like it's, I think this film is
• 11:54
  like very, very my humor. I can see that, Yeah.
• 11:58
  I feel almost a little nervous talking about this movie today.
• 12:01
  Because I know it's good. No, it's.
• 12:03
  Not that it's just, yeah, I know this is your like one of your
• 12:06
  tops. I think it's my favorite film.
• 12:11
  But listen, I'm up for an intellectual debate.
• 12:14
  Maybe we'll, yeah, maybe we'll knock it down a few points
• 12:19
  pressure, but I'm sure it'll be fine.
• 12:22
  I'm going to smash it. Well, Drop Dead Gorgeous, if
• 12:24
  you're not familiar, is a satirical mockumentary black
• 12:27
  comedy film directed by Michael Patrick Jan and written by Lona
• 12:32
  Williams. It stars.
• 12:35
  Does it fucking not star honestly?
• 12:37
  And welcome to the podcast, all of these people, because I don't
• 12:39
  think most of them are featured, have they?
• 12:41
  Correct. Christie Alley.
• 12:43
  Tick Ellen Barkin. Tick Kirsten Dunst.
• 12:46
  Come on. Denise Richards, Yes.
• 12:48
  Brittany Murphy? Yes.
• 12:49
  Allison Janney, Yes. Amy Adams in her film debut.
• 12:53
  Film debut. Yes, she does so well.
• 12:56
  Plus great character actors. Mindy Sterling and MO Gaffney
• 12:59
  are in it. From Absolutely Fabulous.
• 13:02
  Yep, Yep. There's a cameo from Adam West,
• 13:05
  yeah. Just throwing in there, yeah.
• 13:08
  It was released on July 23rd, 1999.
• 13:11
  Just going to tell you some of the other teen movies that were
• 13:13
  released that year, there was something in the water.
• 13:15
  Jawbreaker came out that year, but I'm a Cheerleader came out
• 13:17
  that year. We've covered both of those on
• 13:19
  the podcast. And then like more mainstream
• 13:21
  You've got American Pie, 10 Things I Hate About You, She's
• 13:24
  All That Never Been Kissed. Drive Me Crazy and The Virgin
• 13:27
  Suicides. God, there's a lot.
• 13:29
  Uh huh. Crazy, yeah.
• 13:32
  Yeah, and what is interesting, I didn't know jailbreaker in, but
• 13:35
  I'm a cheerleader at the same time.
• 13:36
  That's really interesting to me because they're very like.
• 13:39
  In the same sort of universe. But then at the same time, we've
• 13:43
  got these like, really like, basic bitch Yeah films coming
• 13:47
  out as well. That's so interesting.
• 13:49
  Yeah, it had a $15 million budget, and it ended up taking
• 13:53
  $10 million at the box office. Yeah, big flop.
• 13:57
  It was also a big critical flop. Yeah, I saw some of the Yeah,
• 14:02
  graceless. Yeah, it ended up.
• 14:05
  Currently it's got 47% on Rotten Tomatoes, but I think that is
• 14:08
  because of many 20th anniversary retrospectives which have bumped
• 14:13
  the score back up. It's got 28% on Metacritic,
• 14:15
  which is like the a more weighted score.
• 14:18
  Basically. It got really bad reviews at the
• 14:20
  time. People thought it was unfunny
• 14:22
  that it it didn't do what it was trying to do.
• 14:25
  It was like trying too hard and then it was basically forgotten,
• 14:28
  wasn't it? Yeah.
• 14:28
  It was unavailable to stream for like 20 years.
• 14:32
  You couldn't. It was out of print.
• 14:33
  You couldn't buy it on DVD or anything.
• 14:36
  But it was kind of kept alive by a generation of queer people,
• 14:39
  I'd say. Totally.
• 14:40
  But I don't think it's even, it's never really like gone
• 14:43
  super, you know, super big cult movie.
• 14:47
  You don't think so? No.
• 14:48
  I think it's still kind of a bit underground.
• 14:51
  Yeah. No, I think definitely because.
• 14:53
  Of what you said, a lot of it because there's been like, no, I
• 14:55
  know it's on streamers now and I know they've had like
• 14:57
  anniversary editions, but they've not really it's never
• 15:00
  really had that like adoring treatment.
• 15:02
  Yeah, as a A. Bit like Jawbreaker as well, I'd
• 15:05
  say. Yeah, it's still a little
• 15:09
  hidden. It's not like a clueless or a
• 15:11
  heaven. No, it's like, yeah, hidden way.
• 15:14
  But yeah, it was it did get kind of this 20th anniversary
• 15:17
  reconsideration. And Adam White in the
• 15:20
  Independent said Droplet Gorgeous was made for a
• 15:23
  generation of freaks and outsiders whose ambitions,
• 15:25
  oddities, queerness and poverty were otherwise ignored by
• 15:28
  anything similarly mainstream or funny.
• 15:30
  I think that's. So true, I think.
• 15:33
  I've been enjoying Saint Paul pork products for years.
• 15:37
  I grew up right next to these stockyards.
• 15:40
  The plot of this one's kind of tricky to do, so I wondered if
• 15:46
  maybe I'll just do, like, the broadest strokes.
• 15:49
  Yeah. And then maybe we go in
• 15:51
  character by character. It's one of those films there's
• 15:53
  there's so much going on. Yeah, like Ram it with like, I
• 15:57
  think it's 'cause it's a mockumentary, isn't it?
• 15:58
  But there's it's not just like a very well, there is a simple
• 16:02
  plot, but like within that there's just like multiple
• 16:04
  plots, loads of gags. Loads totally really it's a lot.
• 16:07
  It's either like you go in super granular because it's very dense
• 16:11
  or you talk about like the high level plot.
• 16:13
  So I. Mean also it's long as well.
• 16:15
  It's a very long movie and I think it like it's it could it
• 16:19
  ends about 3 times. Yes, it does.
• 16:21
  Yes, it does. So we are in Mount Rose,
• 16:25
  Minnesota, Minnesota, Minnesota. Oh boy.
• 16:28
  I should start this by saying I don't know if you know this, but
• 16:30
  I lived in a small town, like very small town in Nova Scotia,
• 16:34
  Canada from like the age of 6 to 11.
• 16:38
  Like we were on a farm. We had chickens.
• 16:40
  The town was called Gore. Wow.
• 16:44
  GORE. Gore.
• 16:46
  That's sensational. Awful, awful.
• 16:48
  And like it was a trailer park town.
• 16:50
  Like it was, it was this town. So watching this again, I was
• 16:55
  like, Oh yeah, I know these people.
• 16:57
  Like there were a lot of Bible thumpers, a lot of casual
• 17:00
  racism. I was very lucky to get out and
• 17:04
  move back to the city when we did.
• 17:05
  Wow. Because I would have been like
• 17:07
  Matthew Shepard did. Yeah, shit.
• 17:09
  Yeah, but anyway, I, I see these people.
• 17:12
  I'm like, Oh yeah, you see, I know you.
• 17:14
  I know you. So we're in Mount Rose,
• 17:17
  Minnesota. And I know we, I know God, this
• 17:20
  is going to be really hard for me, isn't it?
• 17:21
  I don't, we're meant to be doing broad strokes.
• 17:23
  And now I'm like shot by shot analysis, but can we just talk
• 17:26
  about the opening sequence and how fucking gorgeous and like
• 17:31
  90s MTV music video that looks? The Adam West.
• 17:34
  Like metallic curtains. So the amount of times in like
• 17:39
  numerous projects I've done outside of drag, like TV work
• 17:44
  and stuff where I've needed to like reference things, the
• 17:46
  amount of times I go to this as a reference because it is
• 17:49
  fucking stunning. So we've got these like flowing
• 17:52
  like metallic looking curtains. Yeah, it's almost, almost like
• 17:55
  helium balloons, Like there's, there's something like, yeah,
• 17:59
  the the the Sheen on them is amazing.
• 18:01
  I feel like you've attempted to recreate this vibe with plastic
• 18:04
  sheets, and we've never quite got that.
• 18:06
  But yeah, so we've got these like these fucking gorgeous
• 18:09
  parachute curtains. Then we've got these kind of
• 18:11
  silhouetted like dark menacing beauty Queens, haven't we, that
• 18:16
  are like dimly lit, but you see like their teeth smile and light
• 18:19
  up and, and it's kind of like this Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun Dun
• 18:23
  Dun. Dun Sarah Lee.
• 18:25
  No, Sarah. Oh, Sarah Lee.
• 18:26
  That's a gateau, Sarah. Rose knows Sarah.
• 18:29
  Rose knows you're a teenage girl.
• 18:33
  And it's just so cool. And then it's like, and then you
• 18:36
  see Adam West and they're there with these like fucking cheap
• 18:39
  little flags, smiling and grinning.
• 18:41
  And she definitely knows that you are ready for the ultimate
• 18:45
  in teen glamour. Like from the get go, you're
• 18:49
  like, you know that this isn't a regular teen movie.
• 18:52
  There's something off about it already.
• 18:54
  The way it's like you might find some celebrities and they will
• 18:57
  point to get him and it's just from the get go is so unhinged
• 19:00
  and weird. And then the bit where it's like
• 19:03
  in such places like. Mount Rose, Minnesota Thousands
• 19:08
  of 17 year old girls like yourselves compete around the
• 19:12
  country in places like beautiful Mount Rose, Minnesota.
• 19:16
  And then the way it just cuts off into the time of their lives
• 19:19
  and then your days of our lives, our lives.
• 19:21
  So you've got, yeah, there's sat there and you're just for an
• 19:25
  opening scene of a film. It still tickles me.
• 19:28
  It's so good. Yeah, you've you quickly find
• 19:30
  out that Iris has taped over the rest of the audition pack tape
• 19:35
  and she's covered it up with her soaps and Kirstie Alley's pissed
• 19:38
  off. And she's like, well, the rest
• 19:40
  of the movie goes on to talk about the skills you're going to
• 19:43
  need in this pageant. It's it's so good.
• 19:45
  But yeah, we are. Sorry, broad stroke.
• 19:47
  No, I just had the opening scene I had to talk about.
• 19:50
  Yeah, and we're with a camera crew who are filming a
• 19:52
  documentary about the Sarah Rose Cosmetics Miss American Teen
• 19:56
  Princess beauty pageant. Also, we're in such a fun world
• 19:59
  already, aren't we? The world of beauty pageants.
• 20:02
  And I feel like there hasn't been many.
• 20:06
  Comedies about beauty pageants and it feels like such a rich
• 20:09
  area to go to. Apparently there's a 1978 movie
• 20:13
  called Smile, which this movie was unfavorably compared to when
• 20:17
  it came out, right? So I'm interested to see it.
• 20:21
  But. And then, yeah, then there's
• 20:23
  Miss Congeniality, which I think is.
• 20:26
  Yeah, it's not, not for me. The two main competitors in the
• 20:33
  beauty pageant, I'd say, are Amber Atkins.
• 20:35
  Or, as I'd like to say, Amber Atkins.
• 20:37
  Amber Atkins. She's a plucky, optimistic girl
• 20:41
  who wants to get out of Mount Rose and be a reporter like her
• 20:44
  hero, Diane Sawyer. And then there's Becky Lehman.
• 20:49
  Rebecca and Lehman, 28 year old Denise Richard playing a
• 20:55
  teenager. Playing a 17 year old again,
• 20:59
  She's just off the back of wild things.
• 21:01
  She's like, you know what? There's a couple of years left
• 21:04
  in this high school girl. I mean, this, this fucking
• 21:08
  performance, like, we know she's a terrible actress, don't we?
• 21:12
  She's in general Denise Richards is not known.
• 21:15
  Yeah, it's funny, but I think she does a great job here.
• 21:17
  Oh. No, but she's like, this role is
• 21:20
  hers. This is like, this is like Naomi
• 21:23
  Malone level for me, right? A performance.
• 21:25
  But it's not right. But Nomi's going too hard.
• 21:29
  Denise is going exactly right. Oh, yeah, but it's it's still
• 21:32
  terrible. But do you?
• 21:33
  Think it's terrible? Yeah, a bit where she's having
• 21:38
  the fight with Amber and she's like, Oh, my Mama says.
• 21:41
  You're right, you're right. Actually, you're right.
• 21:44
  When she's just like, I think left on her own doing like broad
• 21:47
  comedy, I think she's very good. Oh, I think she's incredible.
• 21:51
  I've got a tattoo of her on my arm.
• 21:53
  I think she's incredible. She's like the hot Christian
• 21:57
  bitch. And yeah, she's destined to rule
• 22:00
  Mount Rose the way her mother does.
• 22:03
  In the run up to the pageant in Mount Rose, Amber survives a
• 22:06
  couple of attempts on her life while other contestants die
• 22:10
  mysteriously or are injured. We'll come back to all those
• 22:13
  other contestants eventually. Becky wins the pageant because
• 22:17
  it's rigged and at the parade in her honor, what happens?
• 22:23
  She's forced to go on a giant swan float and she gets burned
• 22:28
  alive. Yeah.
• 22:29
  And then we see her mother completely fall down, have a
• 22:32
  like a breakdown and admit that she killed everyone.
• 22:35
  Yeah. The swan ain't my baby.
• 22:39
  So that means that Amber gets to go to state.
• 22:42
  She gets to go to the state finals for the beauty pageant,
• 22:44
  and at state she realizes she's hopelessly out of her depth and
• 22:48
  she's considering dropping out. But everyone else gets food
• 22:51
  poisoning due to shellfish. Does it?
• 22:54
  Cue the big vomit scene. And somehow Amber is named the
• 22:58
  winner of that pageant, too. So she gets to go to nationals.
• 23:03
  And she arrives at Nationals as Miss Minnesota and Sarah Rose
• 23:09
  Cosmetics has unfortunately been seized by the IRS.
• 23:11
  It's been shut down. It's bankrupt, it's shuttered.
• 23:15
  And the girls go wild. They smash it up.
• 23:18
  They knock down that really weighty statue that literally
• 23:23
  just is a bit of cardboard that slops down.
• 23:26
  But yeah, they trashed the joint and that's Amber's dreams
• 23:30
  crushed and tell. Because there's another bit.
• 23:33
  Yeah, credits roll and then in the mid credits scene we see
• 23:39
  what's happened. Gladys has has left prison and
• 23:42
  now there's a mass gun shooting led by Gladys and she shoots a
• 23:48
  news reporter and Amber steps in and suddenly is a new host of a
• 23:53
  new show and that's what she. Sees.
• 23:55
  Yeah, she sees her opportunity. That reporter is hit, and
• 23:58
  Amber's like the news must go on.
• 24:00
  She snatches the mic off the bloody ground and carries on the
• 24:04
  reporting. And then we see her in the news
• 24:06
  studio and it's got the same treatment as the opening, except
• 24:09
  she's in like, and it's just that's showbiz.
• 24:12
  That's showbiz. Yeah.
• 24:13
  So yeah, it's some good tips if you want to like, break into
• 24:17
  like news broadcasting just, you know.
• 24:19
  What is it that Crystal says? You know the best advice I ever
• 24:24
  got? You're up there on stage hoping
• 24:27
  on a spot. If someone gets in your way,
• 24:31
  step on them. If you're the only one left
• 24:34
  standing there, they hire you. So that's like the broad plot.
• 24:40
  I don't know how to, I don't know where, where to talk.
• 24:43
  Let's talk about the world. Yeah, OK, the world.
• 24:46
  Let's start there, yeah. So this town is.
• 24:49
  But. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:50
  It is a real like examination of poverty in America.
• 24:57
  It's so dark. It's so fucking dark.
• 24:59
  It's so dark. Every, every reference is you
• 25:05
  get like a real snapshot of so many different types of people.
• 25:08
  So yeah, like the kind of inhabitants here, you know,
• 25:10
  you've got a paedophile who is also going to be one of the
• 25:14
  judges on the talent show. You've got that like a gambling
• 25:18
  former ballet Clarice who is just like candy clothes.
• 25:26
  Sweet Jesus, if I was a gambling lady.
• 25:28
  It's just everywhere. You've got the headmistress,
• 25:32
  there's just so you've got the pork products.
• 25:35
  Oh my God, the pork. Former beauty pageant person.
• 25:38
  It's like. I just love Saint Paul pork
• 25:40
  products. In fact, I love them so much I
• 25:45
  work here now. Oh.
• 25:48
  That cutaway that is, I think, my favorite bit of the movie,
• 25:52
  just that infomercial that's inserted for no reason, but it's
• 25:55
  just so dark, so good. She's, she's at one point
• 25:58
  wearing like a really bloody spattered apron.
• 26:01
  Oh, incredible. But I think, I think something I
• 26:03
  love about the world in general is that we are like following
• 26:06
  this. Like to the people who are part
• 26:08
  of this world, this beauty pageant is like real high stakes
• 26:12
  for them. But it is just like, as you
• 26:15
  said, it's just such like a shitty small town that actually
• 26:19
  everything's just so shitty, but everything's played for these
• 26:22
  huge states. It's just a crappy little talent
• 26:24
  show. But it's kind of all these
• 26:26
  people have, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 26:27
  I mean, especially for Becky and Gladys, it's like this is their
• 26:33
  thing and it's really skewering that girl you knew in high
• 26:37
  school who peaked at prom when she got made prom queen.
• 26:41
  Like that is all she's got and it's going to be downhill from
• 26:44
  there. And then there's this amazing
• 26:46
  other cast of all the other contestants who are such unique
• 26:50
  characters in their own right and like, they really spend some
• 26:53
  time, like giving each of them a personality, like a trait.
• 26:56
  It's really, really fab that way.
• 26:58
  And I think it's easy to be like, so like impressed by the
• 27:01
  cast looking back on it now, just because so many of them
• 27:04
  have had such big careers. But like, a lot of them at the
• 27:07
  time weren't known for stuff. But there there's so much talent
• 27:11
  on screen, like even like the sub roles, like you just said,
• 27:14
  like, because you know, like someone like Brittany Murphy is
• 27:18
  a small character in it, but she's incredible in it.
• 27:21
  And like, you're just like, wow, you're a fucking superstar
• 27:24
  whenever she's on screen. And that's what's so interesting
• 27:26
  about the right thing, is that it's just all of these actors
• 27:29
  get to really shine. Yeah, yeah, it's so true.
• 27:32
  Like, it's not that anyone has a huge amount of screen time, but
• 27:34
  it's like punchy, punchy, punchy, punchy.
• 27:37
  Who would you have been? Oh, I mean Amy Adams looks like
• 27:40
  she's having a lot of fun as the, like, slutty girl.
• 27:43
  Was that you though? No, it wasn't.
• 27:45
  Oh, wait. Who would?
• 27:46
  Who was I? Oh, my God.
• 27:47
  Yeah, this. I was the girl who liked dogs.
• 27:51
  So yeah, talk to us about. Her dad.
• 27:53
  What is her storyline? She just really likes dogs.
• 27:56
  Yeah, she just got, she had a big German.
• 27:58
  She's obsessed with German shepherds.
• 28:00
  She got bit. She.
• 28:01
  Got bit they repaired her stomach with the skin from her
• 28:03
  butt. Yeah, and then she's got a
• 28:04
  smaller dog now, yeah. That's that's her character.
• 28:08
  She's just a bit confused. You know, she, she doesn't quite
• 28:10
  get the brief, the pageant runway, does she?
• 28:13
  She's got like that big ball of yarn, the world's biggest ball
• 28:17
  of yarn on her. Is she the one who falls on the
• 28:19
  stepladder and has to ice her Fanny?
• 28:21
  Yeah. They remade my belly with skin
• 28:25
  from my butt and somewhere. I guess I'd be somewhere between
• 28:27
  her and the dramatic. Yeah, the theater kids I.
• 28:31
  I was the theatre kid, as much as I would love to be like, oh,
• 28:35
  I'm Rebecca Van Lehman or no, I was Soylent Green.
• 28:39
  Yeah, serious. Like, oh, it's my dramatic
• 28:42
  monologue now. And I had this thing at school
• 28:44
  where I, like, I could make myself cry acting.
• 28:47
  So I would just basically shoehorn it into every single,
• 28:51
  like, scene. I would do like, if ever there
• 28:54
  was this acting scene that required a little bit of drama,
• 28:57
  I would like really push myself to cry and make it a thing.
• 29:01
  Wow. Because I took it so seriously.
• 29:04
  And were people like incredible? Basically because there's no one
• 29:08
  else really did. There was only like 5 people in
• 29:10
  my very small school that wanted to act.
• 29:12
  So it's like I basically just got to do what I wanted to do
• 29:15
  and, and everyone would just be like, you're sensational, go to
• 29:19
  London, you need to go to London.
• 29:21
  And I was like, yeah, I do, yeah I do.
• 29:23
  And then I went to London and I was like, oh I'm really shit.
• 29:25
  And everyone else is like really experienced, really good.
• 29:28
  And it was like you will never be anything.
• 29:30
  Boom. Oh, yeah.
• 29:31
  So you really had the Amber Atkins?
• 29:33
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:33
  Oh, my God, I am Amber. It was totally that.
• 29:36
  It was like, I'm going to be Martha Stewart, not Martha
• 29:39
  Stewart. Diane Sawyer, I'm going to be
• 29:42
  Martha Stewart. Yeah.
• 29:44
  But yeah, so I can relate to that story.
• 29:48
  Yeah. So who are your favorite
• 29:50
  characters? Because it is hard, this is hard
• 29:52
  one to talk about just because of the way it's it's obviously
• 29:55
  with the mockumentary side of it, Yeah.
• 29:57
  Who are you most drawn to character wise?
• 29:59
  Yeah, I mean, Denise Richards. I mean, it's partially like the
• 30:02
  way her character is written and the plot stuff, but like the
• 30:04
  fact that you just, you know, she's constantly murdering
• 30:07
  people and she's doing it with this smile and she looks so
• 30:11
  gorgeous. I love all the bits where she's,
• 30:13
  like, giving cunt cunt, cunt, cunt cunt until she sees the
• 30:16
  cameras on her and then she turns on her like showbiz
• 30:20
  sparkle. It's so perfect.
• 30:22
  Because it's like, so, yeah. So the first death we've got is
• 30:24
  Tommy Curry. And she's like the captain of
• 30:28
  everything, Isn't she's like a sporty jock.
• 30:30
  Yeah. And she's giving dyke vibes, but
• 30:32
  I'm not sure if she is. But like, that's her energy.
• 30:34
  And we see her set up. She's like proudest that she's
• 30:37
  the the leader with the Lutheran.
• 30:39
  She's just won the yeah, she's just become the captain of the
• 30:42
  Lutheran Gun Club, beating out Becky.
• 30:45
  Yeah, Who's the vice captain? And then we see her like riding
• 30:48
  a tractor and then out of nowhere.
• 30:50
  And it happened so quickly in the film, the tractor just
• 30:53
  explodes. And then we see that she's dead.
• 30:55
  And it and it it's from the get go.
• 30:57
  You're like, oh, OK, this is going to be quite a fucking
• 30:59
  weird film. Yeah.
• 31:01
  And then we see Becky and Lehman with a gun and it's like, what
• 31:04
  did you think about Tammy's death?
• 31:05
  And it's like, oh, you know, I didn't really know.
• 31:08
  Yeah. And then how long have you been
• 31:09
  shooting for? And it's like my mom gave me
• 31:12
  this on my 5th 16th birthday. Yeah.
• 31:14
  And we've learned that she's like a very good shot very
• 31:17
  quickly because she's. Yeah.
• 31:20
  Because Jesus loves. Winners.
• 31:22
  Yeah, that's why whatever I do, I aim to win.
• 31:26
  But. It's like this, this character,
• 31:30
  God, we're seeing it now in America more and more.
• 31:32
  This kind of like weird MAGA. You're right.
• 31:36
  It's that. It's that Lady, the crazy one,
• 31:38
  the. The the wife of the guy that got
• 31:41
  shot. Well, yeah, her.
• 31:43
  She's very Becky Lehman, you're right.
• 31:46
  She's got this. Kirk Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
• 31:50
  She is exactly that. No, but there's also this crazy
• 31:53
  Latina Trumper who's like constantly firing missiles.
• 31:57
  She'll like, she'll like take a grenade launcher to like woke
• 32:01
  shit and. I mean, that's just like the
• 32:03
  rules of feminism that is. That's the thing with Becky and
• 32:06
  Lehman though, is that it's really clever because she's all
• 32:10
  all of these awful things. But like, there's no attempt to
• 32:14
  like disguise the fact she is nuts.
• 32:16
  Do you know what I mean? And like this weird like double
• 32:19
  edged personality disorder she's got.
• 32:22
  Yeah, Becky. Also, Kirsten Dunst's character
• 32:26
  gets hit on by this shoot jock guy who has just rejected Becky
• 32:31
  and then the next thing we know he's a dead in the morgue shot
• 32:35
  between the eyes. And then we cut to Denise
• 32:37
  Richards again. Like cleaning her gun.
• 32:39
  The other thing I love about Denise Richards in this film is
• 32:44
  I actually we've we've spoken about a few people in in like
• 32:49
  queer cinema that have influenced your drag and your
• 32:52
  performance style. So Michelle Pfeiffer is
• 32:54
  Catwoman, Poison Ivy? Denise Richards performing?
• 32:58
  You're just too good to be true. I don't think I've ever seen my
• 33:02
  drag more encapsulated into a performance.
• 33:05
  You're so right. So Denise Richards Can't Sing,
• 33:09
  but is that going to stop her? No, it fucking isn't.
• 33:13
  She is going to be there in her little poodle, a line, pink
• 33:17
  skirt and yeah, I'm just going to go.
• 33:20
  I just want to perform it. You're just too.
• 33:27
  Good. To be true.
• 33:29
  And then you've got like people in the audience like, oh shit,
• 33:33
  can't take my eyes off of you. You feel like heaven to touch.
• 33:43
  I want to hold you. I know you're uncomfortable, but
• 33:47
  I'm just carrying on so much. At long last, love has arrived
• 33:53
  and I thank God I'm alive. You're just too good to be true.
• 34:02
  Can't take my eyes off of you, Jesus.
• 34:10
  Jesus stuffed. Jesus wheeled out on a cross.
• 34:13
  Yeah, stuffy Jesus. And then there's like little
• 34:15
  hokey. He's velcroed to the cross.
• 34:19
  It's on wheels. And then she takes his arms and
• 34:22
  wraps around it. And then I love the shot when
• 34:24
  she leaves the stage and she's. Carried across the cross with
• 34:28
  that big smile on her face. Oh, it's incredible.
• 34:31
  I. Have done that performance.
• 34:33
  Have you? I was just going to say.
• 34:34
  With the cross, someone made me across with and I did that
• 34:37
  thing. Wow, when?
• 34:39
  That was like early, I did it with some people called Amy
• 34:42
  Grimehouse. They used to do screening
• 34:44
  events. And yeah, they made me the cross
• 34:46
  for it. And it was just affection so
• 34:48
  far. But I see my I see my dragon
• 34:50
  Denise. Totally.
• 34:52
  Deluded. Yeah.
• 34:53
  Like dark. Yeah, you.
• 34:56
  I mean, you're obviously doing it with a self-awareness that
• 34:59
  she does not have, but yeah, she's the perfect blueprint.
• 35:02
  But then I also feel like I do a lot of stuff without the
• 35:05
  self-awareness that it should have.
• 35:08
  Yeah, she's very, Yeah. She's just that perfect
• 35:11
  representation of like American confidence, unearned confidence.
• 35:16
  And I think that's very, Yeah, your drag like and comfort.
• 35:20
  No, no, I don't. I'm mocking that.
• 35:22
  Yeah, mocking that. Yeah, that is.
• 35:24
  That's your whole thing. Yeah, What else does she do
• 35:27
  there in this film that I love as well?
• 35:28
  Like, she just plays it at the right level.
• 35:30
  Yeah. She's not hysterical.
• 35:32
  She's not. She's just bored, isn't she?
• 35:35
  Like, you get the impression that she doesn't really want to
• 35:37
  do all of this stuff, but like, her mum's just making her and
• 35:39
  she just probably just wants to look hot, doesn't she?
• 35:41
  Yeah. Wait, let's let's go to Kirsten
• 35:44
  Dunst. OK.
• 35:44
  Yeah. So Amber Atkins, she's the like,
• 35:49
  she's the sweet girl. I what I love about Amber Atkins
• 35:53
  is that you think that you're getting the story of the
• 35:56
  American Dream with her. And like, if you just work hard
• 36:00
  and commit and you're nice, then good things will happen to you.
• 36:04
  And actually that is not Amber's story at all.
• 36:06
  And this movie just skewers that idea so hard.
• 36:10
  And it's like, actually, no, fuck that.
• 36:12
  If you're poor, like your options are very limited and the
• 36:15
  only way you're going to get ahead is if you get an
• 36:18
  absolutely fucking lucky break, because otherwise you're.
• 36:21
  Stuck. You're stuck exactly where you
• 36:23
  are. Life is not fair.
• 36:24
  The rich people stay rich and they'll cheat their way to the
• 36:28
  top and. Which is?
• 36:29
  And that's the representation of the Lehman family, Yeah.
• 36:31
  And it's like everybody's just kind of accepted the way it goes
• 36:36
  with them. Yes, yeah.
• 36:38
  You know, the dad owns the big furniture shop, which is a RIP
• 36:41
  off place anyway, but he sponsors the beauty competition.
• 36:45
  Gladys is the director of it. She's always won.
• 36:48
  And he's already hired all of the judges.
• 36:50
  Yeah, like, basically like he's hired one of the judges to paint
• 36:53
  his furniture store. There's some corruption.
• 36:56
  The one of the other judges is his, is his assistant.
• 36:59
  That's the writer of the movie, by the way.
• 37:01
  Yeah, I know. It's crazy, isn't it?
• 37:02
  Yeah. Yeah, so it's like all so sewn
• 37:06
  up she Amber's got no chance but.
• 37:10
  Yeah, this idea of like everything that's about the
• 37:12
  American Dream and like a location that would be about the
• 37:16
  American Dream beauty pageants, which is about the American
• 37:18
  Dream, And then they're just the reality of like, well, that's
• 37:21
  all bullshit, really. It's all bullshit and like the
• 37:23
  fact that like this, the third runner up prize is a $50
• 37:26
  scholarship, it's like, oh that is so painful and true.
• 37:34
  And again, something I think I could relate to just as like a
• 37:37
  young team with this film is like the want to get away and to
• 37:42
  succeed and do well and like in something creative but actually
• 37:46
  not being the most talented. Like, Amber Atkins can tap
• 37:49
  dance. Yeah.
• 37:50
  And we see her dancing. And again, like in films like
• 37:52
  Step Up or something, that level of dancing would be like, wow,
• 37:56
  who's the new hot blonde girl in our dance class?
• 37:58
  And she'd but she's kind of just fine.
• 38:01
  Good enough, Yeah. Good enough, Yeah.
• 38:04
  And like, I love that honesty in the talent show when we see it
• 38:07
  is like, you see her performing when she gets Brittany Murphy's
• 38:11
  costume. Yeah, and it's fine, but it's
• 38:13
  not. She's better than the other
• 38:15
  people. Yes, But again, you're not like,
• 38:18
  superstar talent. It's a very like normalized
• 38:21
  level. Yeah.
• 38:23
  And I sort of like that honesty about it.
• 38:26
  Yeah. And in a more mainstream, yeah,
• 38:28
  in a more mainstream teen film, she would just go on to win
• 38:33
  through sheer determination. You'd get a montage of her
• 38:35
  makeover. You know, you'd have all of
• 38:37
  these things. And just like, oh, she's earned
• 38:39
  this. But like, that isn't actually
• 38:41
  how life works. And it's not.
• 38:43
  Life is not fair. And unless you're, like, rich or
• 38:48
  lucky, you're probably not going to get the opportunities that
• 38:52
  you think you deserve. Yeah.
• 38:54
  Life's a bitch now, so am I. And I just think that's so rare
• 38:59
  to see in a movie. And it's so like, it's like a
• 39:03
  gut punch, but like it's very cathartic to see also because
• 39:07
  you know it's true. And they've done it really well
• 39:09
  in sort of, you know, the blonde blue eyed girl as well.
• 39:13
  Yeah, giving her that. Yeah.
• 39:14
  She does sort of fall into a lot of the tropes of that sort of
• 39:17
  bright eyed, bushy tailed, Yeah. But yeah, so seeing her go
• 39:21
  through it in a harder way and like, I think I'm sure we'll
• 39:25
  talk about her character a bit more, but I think the
• 39:27
  relationship she has with her mum is actually really
• 39:29
  heartfelt. And again, it's dark.
• 39:31
  Everything about this film is dark and fucked up.
• 39:32
  There's there's like just when you think you're getting into
• 39:35
  like a kind of a nice moment, there's something that happens
• 39:38
  that's quite off. But I think underneath it all,
• 39:41
  there's actually just a very like real bond between them and
• 39:45
  yeah. And again, like a nice contrast
• 39:48
  to relate the relationship that Gladys has with Becky, because
• 39:51
  although she says it's because she wanted everything for her
• 39:54
  daughter, she wanted to win, There's not there's not a real
• 39:57
  sincerity between them. No, Whereas actually with Amber
• 40:01
  and her mom, again, her mom is having to just be like, we live
• 40:04
  in a trailer park, you know, real stuff going on.
• 40:08
  I love the line from Amber. Boys get out of Mount Rose all
• 40:11
  the time. Hockey scholarships.
• 40:14
  Prison. I'm like the fact she works in
• 40:19
  like a more doing makeup and that's I'm lucky I get somewhere
• 40:26
  I can tap, practice my tap dances.
• 40:29
  And yeah, she's doing that woman's makeup and the guy the,
• 40:33
  the family have like a problem with the way she's on the
• 40:35
  makeup. She's like, oh, I just thought
• 40:36
  you maybe wouldn't want your mother to look like a cheap
• 40:38
  whore. And then it's like, well, this
• 40:41
  is the cheap all they want to see.
• 40:42
  It's like, perfect, yeah. So good and her just like
• 40:45
  reluctantly putting like a bright red lipstick on this old
• 40:47
  lady. It's so great.
• 40:49
  And then the guy that's the love interest has been shot straight
• 40:53
  away and then she's like having to cover, cover up bullet holes
• 40:55
  on the head. And, you know, she's like, oh,
• 40:57
  you know, part and parcel of the job.
• 40:59
  You just have to get used to it. But again, it's like, it's like
• 41:04
  it's real life, but heightened and twisted and warped.
• 41:07
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 41:08
  Oh, God, It really does not pull any punches.
• 41:11
  This movie, it's so dark. Yeah.
• 41:12
  What about her, her mom and Loretta?
• 41:15
  Because it's so female heavy, the cast like you actually have
• 41:19
  like all of these like great double acts, but not there's not
• 41:23
  just one. There's like multiple strong and
• 41:26
  then different combos of these characters like women together
• 41:29
  that like it's like, you know, we've we've talked about first
• 41:32
  wives club and like their dynamic is fab.
• 41:34
  But like, for me, like seeing Ellen Barkin and Allison Janney
• 41:39
  together in the way that they RIP off of each other, seeing
• 41:41
  Kirstie Alice and the lady that plays Iris Harris.
• 41:46
  Yes, and again, Mindy Sterling. Yeah.
• 41:49
  And again, it's just all of these like, and I just in one
• 41:52
  movie to see all of that is so because like Ellen, Ellen Barkin
• 41:55
  is so great as her mother. Yeah.
• 41:59
  Yeah, she's so fab. Yeah, I mean, she sends the
• 42:01
  movie high on painkillers, basically with a beer can fuse
• 42:05
  to her hand. But yeah, there's like, again,
• 42:08
  in a very heightened wart way, it shows sort of like poor
• 42:14
  people and like kind of their dynamics with in within the
• 42:17
  family because like you said, she does, she does care about
• 42:19
  Amber, but she herself is like this like fucked up cliche of
• 42:23
  what training park trash is. But like, you know, she's still
• 42:28
  supporting her, still encouraging her, like she still
• 42:30
  believes that she can become something can become and like
• 42:34
  without any knowledge of that. And again, like in a really kind
• 42:37
  of weird personal way, she kind of reminds me of my mom.
• 42:40
  Right. Because my mom has always like
• 42:43
  so blindly believed that I could do the things I wanted to do but
• 42:47
  without any context of the situation.
• 42:50
  So if I was like, I want to be ATV presenter or something, my
• 42:52
  mom would be like, yeah, and knowing nothing about that, just
• 42:56
  kind of believing and wanting to believe for your child.
• 42:59
  And I just, but kind of not naively, yeah.
• 43:03
  And so I see a lot of my mum in Ellen barking, going to the
• 43:09
  talent show and being like, you're the best thing ever.
• 43:11
  You're the just believing in that, yeah.
• 43:15
  And giving great advice like if they ask you to take your top
• 43:17
  off, get the money first. Like realistic advice.
• 43:23
  Yeah, she's fabulous. And then Loretta, played by
• 43:25
  Allison Janney, I mean that role, that performance, this
• 43:29
  character, 1 liners, the one liners.
• 43:33
  She's like a slutty drunk who's like real, down to earth, salt
• 43:38
  of the earth kinda. She's like the second mum to
• 43:42
  Amber. Yeah, and she again, like, I
• 43:44
  really see like that like relationship and it's really
• 43:48
  beautiful. And again, it's in the fucked up
• 43:50
  dressing, but you know, she's she knows that the school would
• 43:54
  like Gladys and she knows what the real thing.
• 43:57
  And because she sort of says it's a camera and like Ellen
• 44:00
  Barkins, like don't say that, don't say that.
• 44:01
  And it's like, well, it's true. Yeah, it's there for her.
• 44:04
  And yeah, really fun. I love the way she's like always
• 44:06
  flirting with the crew and wants to fuck them as well.
• 44:08
  It's like. You guys want to be here?
• 44:09
  Can one of your boys can be a ride home?
• 44:11
  Don't fall far, She lives. 2 trailers.
• 44:13
  Down. So be real easy.
• 44:15
  Go on home, Loretta. And oh, you're cute.
• 44:19
  Yeah. She as she gets with that waiter
• 44:23
  and then on camera, she's like, I got some.
• 44:27
  They're getting so like, likable.
• 44:29
  She's so likable. I think as well, like with when
• 44:34
  Amber wins through the death of Becky Lehman, they had that
• 44:38
  really nice scene as well where she's just kind of like telling
• 44:41
  her, well, like you've just got to make the most of this and and
• 44:44
  go with it. And again, that's like, it's
• 44:46
  just like real life, isn't it? Yeah, Allison, Jenny's character
• 44:50
  is almost like the she's the moral of the movie, which is
• 44:54
  like, life isn't fair. So like, if you get an
• 44:56
  opportunity, fucking take it. Yeah.
• 44:58
  And she's like the realist. She's actually the one who knows
• 45:01
  what's going on. Yeah.
• 45:02
  Yeah. Who else?
• 45:03
  What about the other contestants?
• 45:06
  Yeah. Brittany Murphy.
• 45:08
  What's this to say about Brittany Murphy?
• 45:09
  Yeah, she's just, she's just looks like she's having so much
• 45:12
  fun. She was quite a big deal at this
• 45:14
  point, too. Yeah, it's quite a small role
• 45:16
  for her. Yeah, she's just, she just loves
• 45:20
  her gay brother. I know, but again, like to have
• 45:22
  that kind of queer representation and it's like and
• 45:25
  also like an interesting thing. Like the parents are obsessed
• 45:29
  with their like drag performing son that does Liza, that does
• 45:33
  Barbara. They haven't clocked that he's
• 45:35
  gay, but they're like, why can't you be more like Peter?
• 45:38
  Why can't you be more like and she is obsessed with it as well.
• 45:41
  And then the payoff is her like Peter's gay, he's gay.
• 45:45
  But again, I just think it's such like a it fits into the but
• 45:49
  I'm a cheerleader and fits into the the Heathers of it all in
• 45:52
  the Jawbreaker. But like, normally these films,
• 45:56
  like it's just, you know, commonplace for someone to just
• 45:59
  be like, you're a fag or something.
• 46:00
  Yeah. There isn't like any gay jokes.
• 46:03
  No. And you, you, you're kind of
• 46:05
  waiting for like, there to be like a trans person is a
• 46:07
  punchline or gay person as a punchline in this movie.
• 46:10
  And it just doesn't happen. No.
• 46:12
  It's so refreshing. I mean, there are other.
• 46:14
  There are, obviously, yeah. We can, we can talk about that.
• 46:17
  But yeah, from that perspective anyway, it's almost like it
• 46:22
  makes me think that the writer probably isn't gay, because I
• 46:26
  think if she were, she'd make lesbian jokes.
• 46:28
  Right. OK, You know what I mean?
• 46:29
  Because, like, yeah. Because she seems she's happy to
• 46:32
  skew her every she. So a bit of context about her.
• 46:34
  So she was born and raised in. ROSEMOUNT, MN.
• 46:37
  Yeah, so and, and went through the beauty pageant cycle.
• 46:41
  So from what I've read in interviews with her, this this
• 46:44
  is actually very much like a version of her upbringing in her
• 46:48
  life, which again, I really like because I feel like this kind of
• 46:51
  topic could easily be just been taken by anybody and just like,
• 46:54
  you know, prestige and parodied and stuff.
• 46:56
  But I think it's interesting that she's got like lived
• 46:59
  experience and like, I don't know a lot of the references,
• 47:02
  but like the food that's referenced in the film and
• 47:04
  stuff, it's all kind of authentic, that location.
• 47:08
  No, she totally gets it. She's skewering it so well
• 47:11
  because she's like, lived it. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 47:14
  You know, the fact that she's plays the silent judge, she was
• 47:17
  told by producers because she wanted another role, She was
• 47:20
  told that she was too old to be like a contestant and because of
• 47:24
  the fact that she doesn't speak means that she was only paid a
• 47:27
  supporting that role and wasn't credited properly as an actor.
• 47:31
  I think they made her do that role because it would save them
• 47:33
  the most money because they that way they didn't have to pay a
• 47:37
  featured extra because she's gotten she's got no line.
• 47:40
  Even though she's in it. She's in it loads, she's a great
• 47:42
  job. Yeah, she's.
• 47:44
  Like such a good character. Yeah, but yeah, I think Brittany
• 47:47
  Murphy is Brittany Murphy in it. Like she's just so likable on
• 47:50
  screen, so like Manic as well, but she's like she's one of the
• 47:55
  like less explored characters and she she's more there as like
• 47:58
  a mechanism to like support. Yeah.
• 48:00
  But yeah, I think she's great in it.
• 48:02
  Yeah, and how about Amy Adams? Yeah.
• 48:07
  Doing a great job. Muskies.
• 48:11
  She looks so hot. So hot and just like, yeah, it's
• 48:14
  like great that this is her first role and she's.
• 48:16
  I think she's got like really great memories of working on it,
• 48:18
  hasn't she as well? And just.
• 48:20
  But again, I just love how they take that trope of, you know, in
• 48:24
  lots of movies, she'd be like a main character.
• 48:28
  Yeah. And actually, she's just like a
• 48:30
  sideline. Yeah.
• 48:32
  And again, like so many of those trophy characters, like, you
• 48:36
  know, they are obsessed about their boyfriend, like their teen
• 48:39
  years in these movies are all based around like whether the
• 48:42
  guy fancies them or not, which we don't see with Amber because
• 48:45
  she's kind of like accepted that like that guy, oh, he's been
• 48:48
  killed, but that's not part of her story.
• 48:50
  That's not her journey to get out of here.
• 48:52
  There's no competition really. Like Becky kills him.
• 48:55
  That kills him, but only because she doesn't want Amber to have
• 48:59
  is you don't get a real sense that she's into him.
• 49:02
  But other than that, So like side characters obsessed by this
• 49:05
  guy and it is just like wrecking her life and we're seeing that
• 49:09
  which we don't see if she would be a featured character, we'd be
• 49:11
  like, we want her to get the guy.
• 49:13
  We need that happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so true.
• 49:16
  It's also like she's a slut, but it's kind of non judgmental.
• 49:20
  It's like, it's like she looks like she's having a great time.
• 49:22
  Yeah, totally. You know.
• 49:24
  And it's like, but the other thing it does really well is
• 49:27
  it's just like highlights how toxic he is because obviously he
• 49:31
  just wants her to be the winner and like, and actually he's not
• 49:33
  impressed with her. Like, and again, it's like a
• 49:36
  very dark way of portraying that side of things.
• 49:40
  Totally. I think all of the contestants,
• 49:42
  they're all like so earnest in their own way, and they're so
• 49:46
  unique and they've got their like special interests, but the
• 49:48
  movie is laughing at them. But it's kind of also not like
• 49:51
  it's kind of really supportive of all of them too.
• 49:53
  It's just like, look at these weird girls.
• 49:55
  Aren't they having a good time? And I love that about it.
• 49:59
  It's not like doesn't feel like it's making fun of women.
• 50:03
  No, I don't think it's. I mean, you know what I mean.
• 50:05
  Yeah, it's not. It's not like slut shaming.
• 50:07
  It's not like doing bimbo stuff, really.
• 50:10
  It's like, I mean, it does do all of that, but it's.
• 50:12
  I saw. Something it's not mean.
• 50:14
  No, I saw an interview with who who played Iris the the actor
• 50:18
  that played Iris. Like Mindy Sterling.
• 50:20
  Mindy Sterling, who we know from Austin Powers as well.
• 50:24
  It's like a really great comedian.
• 50:27
  And I was watching an interview that they were talking about
• 50:29
  Drop Dead Gorgeous and they they come from like a big improv
• 50:32
  comedy. Background from the groundlings
• 50:34
  I think. Yeah, and they were talking a
• 50:35
  lot about because obviously like people have sort of some critics
• 50:39
  and people watching back now have said that the films mean.
• 50:43
  And she doesn't think it's mean because she she comes from like
• 50:46
  a comedy. Her comedy take on it is that
• 50:49
  all of these things should be up for grabs.
• 50:51
  And she loves dark comedy and she wants to kind of subvert and
• 50:55
  make it weird and stuff. But she said she thinks it works
• 50:57
  because everyone's playing it for real.
• 50:59
  So they're not kind of going oh, and pointing and laughing.
• 51:03
  They're believing in those characters, as ridiculous as the
• 51:05
  situations are. And I think that comes across
• 51:08
  because it's like, as I said, I think this just like with most
• 51:11
  of the characters, there's a real heart beneath.
• 51:14
  Yes, the tropes of it. Yeah.
• 51:15
  And yeah, I think it's it's just an interesting.
• 51:18
  You don't see a lot of that on these kind of teen films.
• 51:20
  Yeah, exactly. It's a teen film, Yeah.
• 51:22
  And it's doing this. Yeah, yeah, they the the movie
• 51:26
  knows who the villains are and that is the like racist, gun
• 51:29
  toting Republican Christian Lehman family.
• 51:32
  Because did you hear that? Apparently the extras who were
• 51:36
  locals and a lot of them walked out during the you're just too
• 51:41
  good from Jesus scene because they were so offended by how it
• 51:44
  was mocking religion. And they would, you know, I
• 51:47
  think it must have just been one of those things, you know, we we
• 51:49
  need some film extras on this. Here's the shooting day.
• 51:52
  Here's the money rock up. They hadn't read the script.
• 51:54
  They didn't know. So she's performing it and
• 51:55
  people just like left. And I just think that is
• 51:58
  spectacular. That's good.
• 52:00
  Yeah, that's what you want, isn't it?
• 52:02
  You want those people to like, Yeah.
• 52:04
  Well, I guess Speaking of the mean stuff then, like, what
• 52:06
  about the more problematic elements?
• 52:11
  There's obviously a character with like, an intellectual
• 52:13
  disability, which it's not. I'd say that's like the lowest
• 52:17
  part of the movie. That's the part that's the
• 52:18
  hardest to watch. They use the R word a lot,
• 52:21
  which, OK, I can kind of forgive that because it's from the 90s.
• 52:24
  And they're kind of showing. They're kind of deliberately
• 52:26
  trying to show that these people are not clued up about this.
• 52:30
  Yeah. But he is just kind of a
• 52:33
  punching bag, this character. Yeah, I agree.
• 52:35
  It's, it's, it's the kind of the weakest part.
• 52:38
  I'm not really kind of sure what it's saying.
• 52:41
  I know, I know. It is like a bigger commentary
• 52:43
  and like at the end he kind of wins, doesn't.
• 52:46
  He does win. But it's still in a very but I
• 52:49
  don't know that that that section to me is just and also
• 52:52
  it's the male characters and I guess it's like didn't really
• 52:55
  need to see them. I don't really know giving.
• 52:58
  Yeah, it's, it's basically, it's supposed to be like comedic
• 53:02
  window dressing, isn't it? It's just like, oh, now there's
• 53:04
  this like doofus doing funny things in the background of a of
• 53:08
  a shot, but it just feels very, that feels like the most punched
• 53:11
  down moment in that. And yeah, when you think about
• 53:15
  like how amazing, you know, the representation of say, of people
• 53:19
  with drought Down syndrome has become in TV and film, like
• 53:23
  there's been so much, so much progress made on that.
• 53:26
  And it's like, oh, you compare and contrast that.
• 53:30
  Yeah. Oh, hard.
• 53:31
  Yeah. But that, I guess that's just
• 53:33
  one of the things when you're, it's like a comedy that's like,
• 53:36
  nearly how old is it now? 13, nearly 30 years old?
• 53:39
  Yeah. Like 26 years.
• 53:42
  Yeah. And then it's just unfortunate
• 53:44
  that. Yeah.
• 53:45
  Well, it's not unfortunate because things have moved on,
• 53:47
  but it's just. Yeah, it's just I guess I'm
• 53:51
  trying to sort of remember. And I think I probably would
• 53:53
  have laughed at that as a teenager.
• 53:55
  Yeah. Which is obviously not now.
• 53:57
  And now I genuinely don't find it funny.
• 53:59
  Like it's yeah, but. Yeah, I used the R word when I
• 54:03
  was a kid. Yeah, of course.
• 54:04
  I mean Black Eyed Peas, Yeah, that song, Let's get it started
• 54:09
  was that was it was just sort of thrown around in a very
• 54:12
  different context. But yeah, it's just, it's a
• 54:15
  shame because it is just a bit naff, that part.
• 54:17
  Yeah. And then let's talk about.
• 54:19
  Yeah, let's talk about the former winner who's on the
• 54:21
  Anorexia Award. I mean that I find that one's
• 54:25
  also like on the edge for me of of watchable.
• 54:28
  How do you feel about it? Yeah, I, I actually, I think
• 54:32
  it's quite interesting. I don't find it as I feel like
• 54:37
  they're making more of a point with this and it's like
• 54:40
  obviously like to make that point.
• 54:43
  You are kind of what you are taking the piss out of people
• 54:46
  with anorexia. Like so obviously there's
• 54:48
  there's issues with it, but I think we're so sort of in like
• 54:51
  American culture, like beauty standards, what people are doing
• 54:56
  for that. And the fact is this character
• 54:57
  is like she's been living on like hardly any calories.
• 55:01
  She's been running X amount of miles everyday altered.
• 55:04
  Get this big dream, which we know isn't a big dream.
• 55:07
  I just think, I just think that kind of dark take on it is quite
• 55:11
  delicious and I think it's fucked up, but it's kind of
• 55:15
  just, I think it's just, and then like when she's being
• 55:18
  pushed around for her performance and she can barely
• 55:20
  stand, but she still wants to perform with the back, I still
• 55:22
  find it quite funny. It's, yeah.
• 55:27
  I felt very conflicted about it. Yeah.
• 55:30
  I can understand why you might watch that and find it very,
• 55:35
  very offensive. Yeah.
• 55:37
  I was wondering, I was like, if she had cancer, would it be
• 55:39
  better? And I don't know like.
• 55:42
  Why would that be better? Exactly why would it be better?
• 55:45
  But there was something about. Interesting.
• 55:49
  There's just something that I have like a visceral response to
• 55:51
  it, I think because I've had friends who've suffered with
• 55:53
  eating disorders, probably. I guess it's interesting because
• 55:56
  it doesn't ever make it seem like it's not like blaming her,
• 56:00
  this character. I don't know.
• 56:01
  It is more of making a point, as you say, about like the pursuit
• 56:05
  of this dream and like how fucked up it is to do that.
• 56:12
  I don't know, but I can't even really talk about it effectively
• 56:15
  because I find it so. Yeah, but it is.
• 56:18
  You're right, it is also funny. Yeah, I think it's really funny.
• 56:21
  But then it's like, you know, I think this is just like we're
• 56:24
  entering a realm of dark comedy and it's not, you know, the
• 56:27
  whole point is labeled dark comedy is there is pushing
• 56:31
  buttons and going to places and making fun of things that are
• 56:36
  taboo. And, you know, and I think
• 56:39
  absolutely, for different reasons, people have different
• 56:41
  things that they can kind of find more palatable.
• 56:44
  And like, you know, if I had someone close to me that died of
• 56:47
  cancer, I know we're getting very serious.
• 56:49
  But like. And then I saw that, yeah, you
• 56:52
  know, maybe I would be able to like, just laugh at it life, you
• 56:55
  know, fuck. But maybe it would just be
• 56:57
  really too triggery for me. But yeah, I think it's
• 57:00
  interesting. I think I just view, I just
• 57:02
  think I'm still, I'm sort of fascinated by societies want to
• 57:07
  change and constantly manipulate the way that they look and kind
• 57:12
  of chase and we see it more and more, but different ways,
• 57:14
  filters, plastic surgery now and people are becoming so grotesque
• 57:18
  in it. And I just, I think it's just a
• 57:21
  variation of that, what we're seeing.
• 57:24
  We don't get to know them as like a real human being.
• 57:28
  I think they just represent how fucked up beauty pageants are in
• 57:33
  general and I just like. I find it just a really weird,
• 57:38
  dark, funny place, but I understand it's not for
• 57:41
  everyone. Yeah, it definitely like fired
• 57:43
  up my brain and it got me thinking I was like, oh, is this
• 57:46
  funny? Am I?
• 57:47
  Am I OK to laugh at this? Why?
• 57:49
  If I'm not, then why, you know, why is my line here?
• 57:53
  What is that? Yeah.
• 57:55
  And I think that's, I think that's really interesting too.
• 57:57
  Yeah, totally. I do.
• 57:59
  I do think we live in like a world where like you can now
• 58:02
  just talk. A lot of comedy can be talked
• 58:05
  around being inappropriate, punching down.
• 58:09
  And I think we can get to a place where it's like you can
• 58:12
  kind of talk yourself out of everything being funny.
• 58:15
  And I do think, I don't know, it's an interesting one.
• 58:18
  Like I doubt they did a lot of research.
• 58:20
  I doubt there's there's someone in her life that had it or she
• 58:23
  had it and she's reflecting herself, the writer.
• 58:25
  Yeah, it's I doubt it comes from that sort of well earned place.
• 58:29
  But at the same time, I'm just like, I think the subject matter
• 58:33
  with the entire thing is it's a satirical look of America and
• 58:37
  all of the kind of nastiness within it.
• 58:38
  So I kind of that's how I view it more than.
• 58:41
  Yeah. A commentary on that, as in as a
• 58:44
  thing. It's the most like edge lordy
• 58:46
  humor part of this movie. I'd say.
• 58:49
  It's like, what can we get away with?
• 58:52
  That that that joke for me is the one that's like the most on
• 58:56
  the on that edge. But then don't you think there's
• 58:59
  something so like, and I don't think you'd have this in like a
• 59:02
  more mainstream straight film, Like, don't you think there's
• 59:05
  something so spectacularly surreal and fucked up about her
• 59:09
  lip sync? So like, don't cry out loud.
• 59:12
  And I, I think that's just kind of fucking.
• 59:14
  Yeah, it's kind of. Beautiful.
• 59:15
  Yeah, I think it's like she's barely alive, but she's still
• 59:19
  lip syncing to be part of this competition in a tiny town.
• 59:25
  And it means fuck all. Yeah.
• 59:27
  And then there's this, like, kind of like tragic glamour
• 59:30
  about it all. I don't know.
• 59:31
  I find it is fucking dark and fucking surreal, but I'm kind of
• 59:35
  into it. Yeah.
• 59:43
  But yeah, I think generally, I think all of the big parts are
• 59:46
  just brilliant. I just think like all of the
• 59:48
  smaller parts, like when we get to the bigger competition and
• 59:53
  you have Terry and Colleen, they are just like, I I want to
• 59:56
  watch. I want why is there not ATV
• 59:58
  comedy series with just those two like chain smoking,
• 1:00:01
  drinking, like oh Jesus Christ, I'm like so fucking funny.
• 1:00:06
  And that see that sequence is so unnecessary.
• 1:00:09
  It could have just ended with Amber winning at.
• 1:00:14
  The graveyards, yes, it could. The film could have ended there.
• 1:00:18
  But then we had this whole other section and like, also just
• 1:00:21
  seeing the like everyone vomiting and beauty Queens
• 1:00:25
  chundering everywhere. I just think there's something
• 1:00:28
  so fucking surreal and wonderful about that.
• 1:00:31
  It's so great. Yeah.
• 1:00:33
  I was on the fence about this. I was like, is this movie like,
• 1:00:36
  does it work that it's got all these like, additional endings?
• 1:00:39
  I felt like pacing wise, it kind of, it was kind of like, oh, now
• 1:00:42
  what? Oh, now we're here.
• 1:00:43
  Oh, OK. But each of those scenes is kind
• 1:00:46
  of perfect also. So you're like, well, I'm happy
• 1:00:48
  I'm watching this. I think narratively it's not
• 1:00:50
  necessarily working that well, like from a story perspective,
• 1:00:54
  but it is great to watch this happen.
• 1:00:58
  And it's like completely unnecessary.
• 1:00:59
  The bit like where Amber's just staring at that girl's tits
• 1:01:04
  because we had a boob job and it's like, OK, now we're here
• 1:01:08
  because the whole movie is set up as this conflict between
• 1:01:10
  Amber and Becky. And then Becky dies at like,
• 1:01:13
  what, 2/3 of the way through the movie and you're like, OK, now
• 1:01:16
  what are we doing? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:18
  Yeah. It just feels like it doesn't
• 1:01:19
  know where it's going towards the end.
• 1:01:21
  And then like the whole fact that you get to the competition
• 1:01:25
  and then it's like, oh, they've gone into like liquidation or
• 1:01:28
  whatever. And that feels like a very oh
• 1:01:30
  God, we need to end this. How can we end this film
• 1:01:32
  quickly? But I like, I kind of again,
• 1:01:33
  love all of these like young girls crying and it's all been a
• 1:01:38
  fraud this whole time. I think again, that's like a
• 1:01:40
  beautiful like message of like, this is all bullshit.
• 1:01:45
  It's all fucking. Bullshit American Dreamers a
• 1:01:47
  fucking lie. And it's like seeing like the
• 1:01:50
  way Gladys like completely like falls apart and, you know, she's
• 1:01:55
  trying to kill Amber. And it's like, is this, you
• 1:01:58
  know, awful, awful human being? It's like, I just think, I just
• 1:02:03
  think the messaging of all of that is great.
• 1:02:04
  Like what we're seeing is not real.
• 1:02:07
  And like the people that fall down are the ones falling down.
• 1:02:10
  And yeah, I just think it's like a very, it's still, I watch it
• 1:02:13
  and I still think, God, this is America still.
• 1:02:16
  Yeah, yeah. It's so funny you were.
• 1:02:18
  You mentioned Erica Kirk, because I was thinking, watching
• 1:02:21
  him, like, oh, these people don't really exist, but you're
• 1:02:24
  right, they fucking do. And actually, they exist more
• 1:02:27
  now than they did probably when this movie got made because the
• 1:02:30
  world has gone beyond satire. And Gladys is like in the House
• 1:02:34
  of Representatives now. Gladys is.
• 1:02:37
  Yeah. She's like Marjorie.
• 1:02:38
  Taylor Green, she's got out there.
• 1:02:39
  Yeah, definitely. Like, she, she got power and
• 1:02:43
  actually she's running shit in a real way now.
• 1:02:45
  And people are falling for it in a, in a way that like when I was
• 1:02:49
  a kid watching this movie, I was like, yeah, at least everyone
• 1:02:51
  knows that, you know, you don't fall for this shit.
• 1:02:54
  But no, people have bought. In and people are poor and
• 1:02:58
  people are stuck in situations still and people are aspiring to
• 1:03:02
  bullshit that's just been fed to them.
• 1:03:04
  They're utter crap. That's so upsetting.
• 1:03:09
  Yeah. I mean, it's like it's bleak.
• 1:03:10
  The whole subject matter with the film is really bleak.
• 1:03:13
  But like you said, and then, like, you know, the sort of the
• 1:03:17
  fact that Amber Atkins fulfills her ambition of being a
• 1:03:21
  newscaster all because of the deaths of other people and
• 1:03:25
  arguably, like, Rebecca Van Lehman is a bad person, but she
• 1:03:28
  didn't do the killings. She definitely shot that boy in
• 1:03:32
  the head. I don't believe in the
• 1:03:33
  glorification of murder. Oh, OK.
• 1:03:35
  Well, she killed one. She killed 1 Jock.
• 1:03:38
  OK, the details. Was she deserving of death?
• 1:03:42
  Did she have a bright future ahead of her?
• 1:03:45
  She didn't deserve to die on that swan.
• 1:03:48
  She was going to be a big musical theatre star or a
• 1:03:51
  cabaret artist like me. I do believe in the empowerment
• 1:03:55
  of women. But no.
• 1:03:56
  But like, the fact that Amber Atkins achieves what she needed
• 1:04:00
  to through luck and through bad circumstances of other people is
• 1:04:04
  just like, it's another really cynical way of filming.
• 1:04:08
  It's so simple this. Film and also the fact that, you
• 1:04:11
  know, she's ended up on a local news station, probably like a
• 1:04:14
  Fox News affiliate, peddling like garbage, served by some
• 1:04:19
  billionaire who lives in Australia.
• 1:04:20
  Like she also like her dream was it was a low hanging.
• 1:04:25
  It was a low dream. Yeah, basically, yeah.
• 1:04:27
  Like none of them have really managed to get out of this any
• 1:04:31
  further. But yeah, America welcome.
• 1:04:37
  Real life sucks losers dry. I don't want to fuck.
• 1:04:41
  With the Eagles, you have to learn to fly.
• 1:04:43
  It's just one of those films like I've like, it's so
• 1:04:46
  quotable. There's so many amazing lines in
• 1:04:49
  this, and I feel like we could just go into every single scene.
• 1:04:51
  I could talk for an hour on each, but the.
• 1:04:54
  Jokes are so dense like joke, joke, joke, joke, joke and so
• 1:04:59
  many. Also, the pettiness.
• 1:05:00
  Can we talk about the pettiness of characters like the bit where
• 1:05:04
  Amber's like her trailer park has been set on fire, that
• 1:05:09
  itself and a huge polystyrene ball of clothes has like become
• 1:05:16
  like an asteroid. And as as it was happening and
• 1:05:20
  as her mother was getting flung through the trailer bar, she
• 1:05:23
  managed to grab an old dress and save her like outfit.
• 1:05:26
  Amazing. And then the fact that then
• 1:05:28
  Amber goes to dance in it, and then Gladys Lehman's like, oh,
• 1:05:33
  sweetie, the costumes need to be a week in advance.
• 1:05:38
  I couldn't have you going out in a tiny thing like that.
• 1:05:40
  It wouldn't be. There are children in the
• 1:05:43
  audience. And it's just that kind of, I
• 1:05:46
  just love all of that bitchiness between it.
• 1:05:49
  And then how's it going? This isn't this isn't Nazi
• 1:05:52
  Germany. This isn't a beauty pageant.
• 1:05:54
  This is Nazi Germany. Yeah.
• 1:05:57
  Where do they get this stuff so good?
• 1:06:00
  And the conga dance and them doing their fucking dancing
• 1:06:04
  dance routines to like the actual talent show itself, the
• 1:06:09
  production values of them walking around and like, showing
• 1:06:14
  off their costumes. And Amy Adams like wanking the
• 1:06:16
  statue on her head. What does Denise Richard say
• 1:06:20
  with the faces? Living in a country where you
• 1:06:23
  can take a stupid mountain and put faces on it, faces of great
• 1:06:27
  Americans who made this country what is so great.
• 1:06:30
  That's what makes me proud to be an American.
• 1:06:34
  So good. Yeah.
• 1:06:36
  Her line also. Like if you were a tree, what
• 1:06:38
  tree would you be? Oh, I'd be like a.
• 1:06:42
  Tree with a strong trunk of good Christian values and wide
• 1:06:46
  branches so I can cast shade on disabled children.
• 1:06:50
  Incredible. Yeah, all of that is so good.
• 1:06:55
  It is great, though, that not many men feature in the movie.
• 1:06:57
  Oh my God, yeah. It's just, it's just women being
• 1:07:01
  all kinds of different women and behaving badly and like, yeah,
• 1:07:05
  it's so, it's so great. I mean.
• 1:07:07
  The fact there's no men in it, well then then the men are like
• 1:07:10
  will douchebags. Are all douchebags?
• 1:07:12
  Yeah. Except maybe, like some of the
• 1:07:15
  documentary crew, you get a sense.
• 1:07:17
  They're kind of like, yeah, but I cannot.
• 1:07:20
  I can understand why this film wasn't a commercial hit.
• 1:07:25
  Yeah, it's like, I guess particular kind of humor.
• 1:07:27
  Totally. And I think the studio didn't
• 1:07:28
  know again what to do with it. It's one of those movies that
• 1:07:31
  like they had no idea how to market it.
• 1:07:34
  And they actually apparently they got, they saw the the edit
• 1:07:38
  and they were like, oh. What do you want?
• 1:07:41
  It to be more like clueless. What do you know at the end?
• 1:07:44
  The original ending was that Gladys Lehman just hangs
• 1:07:48
  herself. Right.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah. So the shot in jail is like,
• 1:07:53
  it's another contestant at the beauty pageant who goes on the
• 1:07:57
  killing spree. Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  And then Gladys Lehman is just found hanging.
• 1:08:00
  And they were just like, too dark.
• 1:08:02
  They were like, what the fuck? This is, Yeah.
• 1:08:05
  Which is interesting. And it makes me more interested
• 1:08:07
  in the writer because I think she did.
• 1:08:10
  She was like burned by the Hollywood experience because she
• 1:08:12
  did a second film called Sugar and Spice.
• 1:08:15
  Yeah. And that had so many changes
• 1:08:18
  from and the studios, etcetera, that she ended up changing her
• 1:08:22
  name and just having like a fake credit.
• 1:08:24
  She didn't want to be associated with it.
• 1:08:26
  So yeah. But again, a really interesting
• 1:08:28
  era of these kind of like weird mainstream teen films that are
• 1:08:31
  like trying to do something darker and interesting.
• 1:08:35
  Yeah, it's great. It's great.
• 1:08:37
  And like a studio not knowing what to do and being upset with
• 1:08:39
  that product and like trying to market it in some way that like
• 1:08:43
  they think will be more of a mainstream.
• 1:08:45
  The fact that it then just also disappeared off streaming.
• 1:08:48
  And it's like the studio did this still was like, oh, we
• 1:08:50
  don't, yeah, this isn't. We don't.
• 1:08:53
  We're not proud of this one. Do.
• 1:08:54
  You know what I mean? Totally.
• 1:08:56
  Like that. And so the fact that it like,
• 1:08:58
  had to be kept alive by people like who were like, I saw this
• 1:09:01
  movie 15 years ago, it's not possible to watch it.
• 1:09:04
  Yeah, for me, I just had it on video, so I'd like, I kept on to
• 1:09:08
  it. And then I think I got a DVD
• 1:09:09
  from America, right, that I found on like eBay or something.
• 1:09:13
  But yeah, it wasn't. And it was like then my prized
• 1:09:16
  possession, I had it as a like an artifact.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, I mean, underdog Flop reclaimed.
• 1:09:23
  Yeah. But yeah, I guess it's just like
• 1:09:25
  you just you just wouldn't get a film like this now because
• 1:09:30
  studios, unless it was a complete indie film, just
• 1:09:33
  because I feel like the studios would just like bash a lot.
• 1:09:36
  They would like either ramp up stuff even further.
• 1:09:39
  But yeah, I just can't see it being made now.
• 1:09:42
  I'm trying to think of something kind of equivalent, I guess
• 1:09:44
  something like the substance is a little bit black comedy in the
• 1:09:48
  same sort of way, and kind of that like satirical look at fame
• 1:09:53
  and. Yeah, I guess that was like.
• 1:09:56
  Quite. That is indie.
• 1:09:57
  Indie that was like blew up though wasn't Yeah, but like the
• 1:10:00
  fact this was like a big. Right.
• 1:10:02
  Well, a bigger mainstream teen flick.
• 1:10:05
  Yeah. It's like when at the beginning
• 1:10:08
  of the episode when you're saying some of the other films
• 1:10:09
  that are coming out at the time of this, I'm like, wow, it
• 1:10:12
  really. You really understand there's
• 1:10:13
  like teenagers where what camp you fit into?
• 1:10:16
  Do you know what I mean? It's like either you were going
• 1:10:18
  to see American Pie and loving wank jokes about shoving it in a
• 1:10:21
  pie or you're kind of getting off on like this very fucking
• 1:10:26
  weird look on like American culture.
• 1:10:29
  Yeah, the director said. This movie is for the girls who
• 1:10:33
  went to Clueless and were like fuck them.
• 1:10:37
  I love. That it's so good.
• 1:10:39
  I love that and I like Clueless. But yeah, so do I.
• 1:10:43
  Yeah. Yeah, it's very bad, yeah.
• 1:10:47
  Should we rate this movie? Let's do it.
• 1:10:50
  So Merrill's quality of the movie, I think I'm going to
• 1:10:54
  score it pretty high. I I think for like a
• 1:10:57
  mockumentary black comedy, like I don't know what more do you
• 1:11:00
  really want. The performances are great.
• 1:11:05
  I think plot wise maybe like there's some issues with the
• 1:11:08
  multiple endings that it kind of flounders a bit there.
• 1:11:12
  But like, I don't really have many notes.
• 1:11:15
  Yeah, I agree. I like, I think as a film
• 1:11:18
  technically it is too long. Like it just needs a hard edit
• 1:11:21
  at the end. I think there's a few too many
• 1:11:24
  ideas and they don't really know which one to stick with.
• 1:11:26
  I love, I find it so enjoyable, but I just think it does go on a
• 1:11:29
  little bit. And yeah.
• 1:11:32
  And aside from like a few moments that are like,
• 1:11:36
  problematic, which could be tidied up.
• 1:11:39
  And I think, you know, if you remade the film now and you
• 1:11:42
  still were going to do that, there are ways of doing things
• 1:11:46
  differently. But I think, yeah, I think it
• 1:11:49
  pretty much delivers, and I think the performances are all
• 1:11:52
  really stellar. Like everyone's at the top of
• 1:11:54
  the game. Yeah, they know exactly what
• 1:11:56
  they're doing. Yeah.
• 1:11:57
  And I just think imagine, like, being on a lineup like that with
• 1:11:59
  so many other, like, female actors, and everybody has
• 1:12:03
  delivered what they need to deliver.
• 1:12:05
  Yeah, I just think. And Kirstie Alley was a
• 1:12:08
  Scientologist at the time. Spectacular.
• 1:12:10
  Christie Alley turned out to be exactly her character, yeah.
• 1:12:14
  That's so upsetting. Wild.
• 1:12:17
  So wild. Yeah, I think I'm going to give
• 1:12:20
  it a nine. Right, think I'm going to give
• 1:12:22
  it an 8. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:24
  OK, then how about Liza's? So yeah, I was thinking about
• 1:12:28
  this on the way here. It's like underdog flop vibes,
• 1:12:31
  queer joy, stupid fun and ongoing legacy.
• 1:12:35
  It's like, yeah, it's there. The only thing that like dampen
• 1:12:43
  some of the queer joy for me is like the jokes at the expense of
• 1:12:46
  the person with an intellectual disability who is not even an
• 1:12:51
  actor with that. That's the only thing that like,
• 1:12:54
  but if I like snip that out of my brain, it's like a perfect
• 1:12:58
  camp movie. I know what you're going to give
• 1:13:00
  it. No, you don't.
• 1:13:01
  You don't know me. OK, what are your lines?
• 1:13:04
  I'm 100% ten this like this film.
• 1:13:08
  So I think it's like when we talk about like, you know, our
• 1:13:10
  own queerness and like what unlocks joy Queen is we spoke
• 1:13:14
  about like Mortal Kombat for you.
• 1:13:15
  You have it's it's a film that has stayed with you.
• 1:13:18
  Yeah, that you've watched so many times.
• 1:13:20
  And like whether or not you realize that you've probably
• 1:13:23
  watched that in times of like loneliness, sadness, it's
• 1:13:25
  brought it's done something to you.
• 1:13:27
  And this film just like it's been there for me from like
• 1:13:31
  being a very like awkward teenager into being a very
• 1:13:34
  awkward adult. And it's, I've just, yeah, I've.
• 1:13:37
  And I think it's just like it. My humour is all over this.
• 1:13:42
  And I'm not saying that I'm like joking about like the
• 1:13:45
  problematic areas because I don't think I do do that.
• 1:13:47
  But I just, I love the like way it just takes a look at life and
• 1:13:51
  just kind of, yeah, it's so cynical.
• 1:13:54
  And I just, I think a lot of like my humour has come from
• 1:13:57
  this film. And like I still do things as a
• 1:14:00
  performer and as an individual that subliminally quotes stuff
• 1:14:02
  from it. Like, one thing I always do it
• 1:14:04
  when I perform is like, you know, the character who's like,
• 1:14:08
  deaf and she's like sign language with the piano.
• 1:14:11
  That's how I like links to tracks.
• 1:14:13
  I don't think she said, Mr. Conductor, if you please, but I
• 1:14:15
  say it in the same way. And that's from that.
• 1:14:17
  And no one would ever know it. They wouldn't be like, oh,
• 1:14:19
  you're doing that. But it's just, I used to find
• 1:14:21
  that apparently she made-up all of that sign language, which is
• 1:14:24
  even more problematic. Oops.
• 1:14:26
  Sorry. Yeah.
• 1:14:28
  I just think it's great. And I just love seeing, like,
• 1:14:31
  funny women. I love funny women so much like,
• 1:14:35
  and there's so much like because I work in TV and so much in my
• 1:14:39
  life, I've been told that women aren't funny in comedy.
• 1:14:42
  We work in TV, women aren't funny.
• 1:14:44
  And we know that's not true. Yeah, there's no, that's not
• 1:14:47
  true. But I just think there's so many
• 1:14:49
  funny women in so many different ways in this movie, and I just
• 1:14:51
  want to celebrate them. So I'm giving it to 10.
• 1:14:54
  I love that. Yeah.
• 1:14:55
  I mean, as far as this, as far as like the the point of view of
• 1:14:59
  this movie, which is like giving the underdog in society a voice
• 1:15:04
  and like showing the underdogs that life is fucking shit and
• 1:15:08
  it's not fair and like making fun of all of that.
• 1:15:10
  It's just so perfect from that perspective.
• 1:15:13
  And it makes me so happy to see it's it's such a fun, it's a
• 1:15:17
  funny movie. It's like, I feel like you
• 1:15:18
  wouldn't show it to everyone. Like you have friends.
• 1:15:20
  You'd be like, Oh, no, I, I wouldn't recommend this movie to
• 1:15:23
  you, But there is lots of like, you know, you've got a good
• 1:15:27
  person in your life. If you're like, oh.
• 1:15:29
  That's the one. Yeah, you'll like this movie,
• 1:15:31
  Yeah. But yeah, it's acquired.
• 1:15:35
  It's not, it's not going to be for everyone.
• 1:15:37
  It's definitely not for everyone.
• 1:15:39
  I'll give it a 10 too. Oh, welcome.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah, I mean, what we can't see is I've actually got a gun.
• 1:15:46
  I'm going to gladness leave in your ass.
• 1:15:48
  I've got like snipers around the room.
• 1:15:51
  What are we saying again about drop dead gorgeous?
• 1:15:55
  I actually if we didn't give it a 10 and listen, I will say I
• 1:15:58
  hear the critiques. I hear them loud and wide, but I
• 1:16:02
  think as we've discussed the goods on this sort of managed to
• 1:16:05
  just outshine them slightly. But I would quit this podcast.
• 1:16:07
  If this didn't get a 10 Liza Minnelli's I would quit.
• 1:16:13
  That's I've been done. That's what I was afraid of.
• 1:16:18
  I was like, I'm going to give it a nine, I'm going to give it a
• 1:16:20
  nine, and then I crumble. Do you want to give it a nine?
• 1:16:22
  Give it a nine. No, I no, I don't.
• 1:16:24
  I don't I I love this movie. I'm glad it exists.
• 1:16:28
  It's like it is the kind of camp that needs celebrating.
• 1:16:33
  And as gay people, we're practiced in just squinting our
• 1:16:37
  eyes when we see something we don't like.
• 1:16:38
  And we can just, you know, omit that.
• 1:16:41
  It's like showgirls, like, oh, yeah.
• 1:16:44
  Like when we do showgirls, it's going to get a 10, and we're
• 1:16:48
  going to have to live with that. So yeah.
• 1:16:52
  And that's much more problematic.
• 1:16:54
  Well, yeah. I mean, life is problematic.
• 1:16:56
  Yes, we're problematic. Yeah.
• 1:16:58
  The thing I do find funny with all of this is we have no
• 1:17:01
  problem with people just being killed.
• 1:17:02
  That's. Oh God.
• 1:17:03
  No. That's the free line of our
• 1:17:05
  podcast. Like, yeah, let's talk about the
• 1:17:07
  difficult subjects, things that we are offensive.
• 1:17:10
  Let's talk about punching down. Let's, like talk about not
• 1:17:13
  settling on things. Murder, fine.
• 1:17:15
  Yeah, I do believe in the empowerment of women.
• 1:17:18
  Yeah, exploding in a swan. No problem.
• 1:17:21
  I mean, what a way to go. It's a gorgeous 1 though.
• 1:17:24
  It is. Well, that's drop dead gorgeous.
• 1:17:27
  I guess we'll be back in two weeks with.
• 1:17:29
  Notes on a scandal. Notes on a scandal.
• 1:17:32
  I can't wait. So what is it you want to roll
• 1:17:34
  around the floor like lovers? Thanks for being here.
• 1:17:37
  We'll see you in two more weeks with another Camp Classic.
• 1:17:40
  Just because this film, we've not done any of the quotes
• 1:17:43
  really, but finished us off on one.
• 1:17:45
  In the words of Gladys, it's always hard to see the young
• 1:17:48
  ones called home, especially on an exploding thresher.
• 1:17:52
  Bye. Get away from her you bitch.
• 1:17:58
  Classic. He was in the Amazon with my mom
• 1:18:01
  when she was researching spiders right before she died.
• 1:18:05
  You thought you become a prostitute or a.
• 1:18:11
  Dog at it. I used to love doggy chow.
• 1:18:15
  I used to love doggy chow too.